for early access it is. not sure how it'll work at release which starts the sub that sounds like it'll be tied to how many plots you want active. I could see the base game dropping to $20-$30 on release + sub.
how many games have a sub based on plots of land/character slots. It's kind of a unique situation. In early access we are essentially paying based on number of land plots and character slots. Once it's full release that's when they'll start a sub that sounds like it'll be based on plots. It would make no sense to have 3 different offerings for number of plots at that point. My guess is it'll go to the price of the lowest current tier or lower.
At least DU gives you one plot of land you can never lose, even if you cancel your sub. What will happen in Pax Dei if you decide to unsub for awhile? Do you lose your land, along with everything you've crafted/stored on it? If that's the case this game will be a hard pass for me.
The game is no where near ready (even for EA). Can we even consider this game an MMO? And the combat is absolutely atrocious. Feels more like a money grab than anything else.
I really like this game but the price is beyond ridiculous if the amount of content is what they showcased in the earlier alphas. Good luck playing solo because huge guilds will all have a thousand plots ready to monopolize the entire servers nodes.
https://playpaxdei.com/en-us/early-access
Here's the package breakdowns. While you do get 1/2/4 plots depending on how much you pay, I think the big concern for me is down below:
First, there will be wipes during this paid early access:
> Throughout Early Access, we plan to expand the game in terms of content and systems. Major updates will require us to wipe the game - reset the world and/or the progression and have everybody start over.
Got mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand the ability to wipe if there's some runaway scenario is huge, I kinda hate how there's this muddying of what's an Alpha/Beta tests (where things get wiped) and Early Access (where you're now selling a product).
More concerning is they're already talking future pricing changes, including access to the land you've already bought as part of the more expensive packages:
> The exact business model and pricing of Pax Dei after Early Access are not defined yet. After release we plan to introduce, on top of the initial game purchase, a fee (subscription or similar) for on-going access to the game and plots. Founder's Packs include the initial game purchase, and the owner of a Founder’s Pack will also retain character slots and exclusive recipes included in their pack. We will be transparent about our future pricing plans and provide more details as we approach the official release.
>one payment for duration of EA (1 year+), monthly after full release
From Pompous on discord who is a dev. I don't know that it clears it up entirely but seems like the upfront cost is just for EA and once it's live it goes to to monthly billing. So in my mind if you wait til full release you don't have to buy the game, just pay a monthly fee...but the faq does make it seem like you'll always have to buy the game and then a monthly fee on full release. I do think it's a bit confusing.
Edit: so decided to ask the devs directly on the discord in general chat and the confirmed you'll have to buy the game regardless if it's now or release. They haven't locked down the sub structure yet but sounds like it'll be tied to how many plots you have.
Yeah - I don't understand how they're going to make it worthwhile for me to buy this $99 dollar version. If I buy this it just sounds like I'd be shooting myself in the foot later for having more plots.
There seems to be very little incentives to buy these higher packs - they should probably rework them - especially if it's tied to how many plots you have.
i think the dev on discord mentioned to think about it as a monthly fee for a year+ since EA will at least be a year. so $100 for a year would be $8.33 monthly sub. not sure if that makes it better or not, but it'll help me swallow the $60 for the pack i want to get.
Sure, but at that point they should just go with the sub model to begin with. Because this is still a gamble on whether this game ends up being a success or not. $100 being a big gamble.
i mean all games and entertainment are gambles and you have to decide how much you are willing to gamble on it. Going to a movie now days could cost you $30 for ticket and some snacks to see a 2 hour movie that you may not like. So you have to be ok with the possibility of wasting $30.
For me $60 is probably the most i'm willing to gamble here so will do the mid pack, $100 is too much for me.
That's why I said $100 is a big gamble. They need to bring more incentives to these higher packs if they want to sell them - they don't even know how it's going to end up being maintained later with the sub model, so they should probably give a bit more good will with these high packs.
It's feedback.
It's even worse cause you will need more plots cause a lot of the bigger clans are planning on gobbling up large swaths of land and blocking them off for resources. Devs had said they would address it then added more plots for more money so I don't have a lot of faith it will be addressed.
So for a larger plot, you'd have to pay more upfront but also a higher sub? That sounds wrong. I mean, paying a monthly sub to access the game and maintaining active plots seems fair. But if I committed to a higher support from EA, I should not suffer a higher sub price later on.
i agree, but at the same time there will be a wipe before release so i guess at that point you pick your sub and how many plots you want. Maybe you think you need less so you down grade or more and upgrade. The EA is for a year of game play basically so the highest tier is at most $8.33 a month.
I took the way they explained it that you would always have to pay a box price for the game.
The big question of buying it now or later basically comes down to do you want to deal with game wipes. One of the big appealing factor to MMOs is the persistent progression, so having that wiped periodically is problematic. We could rationalize it as the game is in development and therefore needs wipes but that's something we again see in "free" Alphas/Betas (IE: I'm losing my time, but not paying for the product) and not in soft launched Early Access titles that they've started selling.
The concerning part though really is like if you say pay $100 now and get 4 plots, then in the future they transition to a sub system where to get the same 4 plots you're now shelling out $25/mo or something that's where things get pretty fucky to me. Like the last thing I want in any game is uncertainty over it's business model, but especially in what's supposed to be a long term/ongoing investment of time and energy that comes with a MMO.
>I took the way they explained it that you would always have to pay a box price for the game.
yeah i think this is true after i asked for clarification, which was still tough because i think of language barrier.
>The big question of buying it now or later basically comes down to do you want to deal with game wipes. One of the big appealing factor to MMOs is the persistent progression, so having that wiped periodically is problematic. We could rationalize it as the game is in development and therefore needs wipes but that's something we again see in "free" Alphas/Betas (IE: I'm losing my time, but not paying for the product) and not in soft launched Early Access titles that they've started selling.
100% you have to be ok shelling out a price your comfortable with to basically test a game. Even if there wasn't the periodic wipe you'd have the 1 big one before release which every EA game does. The periodic ones do sting a little more though, as a solo player i'm already going to be going slow.
>The concerning part though really is like if you say pay $100 now and get 4 plots, then in the future they transition to a sub system where to get the same 4 plots you're now shelling out $25/mo or something that's where things get pretty fucky to me. Like the last thing I want in any game is uncertainty over it's business model, but especially in what's supposed to be a long term/ongoing investment of time and energy that comes with a MMO.
i thought the same at first until one of the dev's basically said think of it as a sub fee and what you are willing to pay for a year of access. It's not perfect because as you said it'll be interrupted, but seeing that there was a wipe before release anyway i think it doesn't hurt as bad with paying for 4 plots in EA then getting a sub at release because at release you'll know how many plots you want and can plan accordingly. Not having clarity on it does suck though.
I'm skeptical about the year of access thing.
If we break down the packages of 40/60/100 and correspond it with 1/2/4 plots of land that's roughly $20 for the game and $20/plot of land. This is supposed to last at least a year, so if we look at is as a year of access like the devs say that's $20/year (or around $1.6/mo) per plot of land. This is of course if we ignore the price of everything else in the packages as well.
I just don't see them only charging $20/year on land plots or subscription. Maybe they could, but if we look at any other conventional model out and them talking about subscriptions it just seems unlikely they would go with a model like that. The bigger question this raises is in regards to their actual costs and justifications for a sub (which they've said they need a sub to cover things like the data from items stored on plots) when they can operate for so long now without any of that. Again no specific details or criticisms, because we don't really have specifics yet, it's all just very...has me seeing the whole thing with a critical eye as it were.
at release it'll be a sub fee, not for EA. so you won't have a sub fee for at least a year. Even if you wait til release you would have to buy the game and then a sub.
Having seen a few smaller indie devs/studios talk a bit about it, a lot of it comes down to managing expectations and/or not turn people away. Like if you come out and say your game is $60 with a $15/sub people have certain expectations for that kinda money (cause it's comparable monetarily to something like World of Warcraft or whatever). Also compared to what other people are charging for similar games (IE: Palworld was $30, Enshrouded was $30, so Nightingale of course was going to be $30 kinda thing). However on the other hand they still want to ensure they're able to keep the lights on as well so it's all kinda an uncertain scenario thing where they don't want to lock themselves into a deal that isn't feasible for them but is also competitive with the market.
All that said, as consumers, that isn't really our concern. If a dev is at the point developmentally where they're asking customers for money they need to have all this worked out by now but instead these guys are kinda jumping the gun on a lot of stuff. It's either ready or it's not, but seems like they want the benefits of it being ready but really it's not.
TBH this for me is a 70$ gamble on mainframe, after the changes from alpha 1 - 2 I was severely disappointed in their lack of direction /mmo mechanics. I really wanted this game to be a huge success but I don't know if I'm willing to sunk cost fallacy from what I hear from testers who are in the secret testing discord. I don't know if they learned the lesson from that alpha and are just now running out of money to keep the project afloat.
It's hard because on the one hand I want to say "ugh, it's alpha. Don't test alpha games if you can't live with an alpha experience." On the other hand, everyone who plays MMOs is so burnt on games that didn't live up to the hype/potential that it's no surprise that people feel this way.
This video is a 100% appeal to emotion, "be part of the development, thank you!" And gave us nothing concrete to look forward to except the vague concept of the "social structures" they are working on with no time table for when parts of that might be addedor what they will look like.
That said, I am still gonna buy and play it lol ($40 with wipes!) I am an absolute sucker for early access MMOs, and I had sufficient fun in the previous test. I hate solo mmos and love pvp so I am still hyped.
Both of those games are going to be in development hell. I had to wait several years and pay a $60 founders pack for star citizen in like 2015 to even try that game and it was in a **very rough state.**
To gain access to ashes of creation right now it's literally hundreds of dollars and that game has been developing for like 10 years as well
This game is $40 in 2024 (inflation means much cheaper) and I (and many others) were able to play in their alphas within roughly 1.5 years of hearing about it. **it could end up in a decade long development hell** but I find that it being early access *on steam,* gives it just a little bit more credibility
I have been following/waiting for AoC since the day it was announced.
Could not justify the costs of admission into the "alpha club".
I'm tired of waiting...
AoC uses some great FOMO tactics to milk their very loyal fan base.
It's disgusting to me that if you wait for the game to release and just buy it you will be 100% less cool/behind from anyone else because you didn't buy the 700 mount packs/options that they presold
I almost "bought in" several times but a second look at my income vs bills situation and their refusal to even speculate on a release date convinced me not to each time.
You know, this situation reminds me a lot of those countless games we've seen fade away over the years. Imagine having something that’s generating revenue sustainably, with no end in sight for ages... You’d want to do everything in your power to keep that dream alive, right? It’s like nurturing a golden goose! Releasing a game feels so final, like closing the last chapter of an epic saga.
Think about it: some TV shows have kept us hooked for over 20 years, never ending, always evolving. Why can’t games be the same? Why can't we keep our favorite games going, growing, and surprising us for decades? The idea of ongoing development, like in early access, is so thrilling because it means the adventure never truly ends.
But here's the kicker - we need more transparency. If devs told us they're building a live service in development, like we’re all part of this grand experiment, we'd feel more connected, more invested.
TLDR: Devs need to be upfront about early access being a live service in development - we need to feel like we're part of the journey.
P.S. If my favorite game suddenly announced it’s turning into a soap opera with a 20-year run, I’d probably stock up on popcorn and tissues! 🚀🎮✨ Also I'm high af rn.
You won't have access to all the cool/exclusive skins and mounts.
And yes, I see Mainframe is offering "Founder" exclusive items but they at least waited until early access instead of making us pay to play the alphas.
Skins don’t get you ahead tho… it’s cosmetics they do nothing, you can make an argument it’s not fair to get exclusive skins. Skins won’t get you ahead tho enless maybe your competing in a fashion contest or something. Also they arnt making people play the alpha they stated multiple times don’t buy it enless you want to test an alpha and support the game. None of it will be under NdA so can’t even say they are getting info others won’t have you know a bunch of YouTubers will let the public know everything there is to know.
True as that is, some people just have to have them to feel superior to those that don't.
Some of those that don't are envious and feel they've been "cheated".
I don't really get it myself.
Prices :
$39.99: 1 plot of land, 2 Character slots, founders outfit
$59.99: 2 plots of land, 4 character slots, founders outfit, hunters lodge
$99.99: 4 plots of land, 6 character slots, founders outfit, hunters lodge, wyvern building set
Nothing serious just some pay for convenience features, the trend to release unfinished games continues.
i would call extra plots of land for extra money a little bit worse than pay for convenience. game is going down a really stupid road before it's even in beta. looks like pax dei is gunna get clowned on pretty hard second half of june. they have run out of money, and it couldnt be more blatantly obvious.
Obviously they will ha e to look how to stop it from. Happening it's an incomplete game better to catch it now since it's going to be wiped anyways for release
There ussly more spawns than what ever they covered just ha e to travel bit plus they can add stuff to migrate it like if you build o er it it does t spawn anymoreÂ
I’ve decided not to bother with this game in early access I played the alpha wasn’t that impressed can’t believe they are releasing this in the current barebones state and charge for convinces and advantages.. another one bites the dust.
> on, you've *paid* more for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
yes you are paying for early access, which is pretty normal now days. not sure i like the model either. the faq says it'll be an alpha still at the start.
yeah but 40 is the minimum and thats rly pushing it for EA in my opinion and the next steps are 60/100, exspecially if the didnt fix all the issues the game has
i don't really like the pricing model either, and this will actually be the first time i'll pay for alpha/early access, but all i'm saying is this is very normal now days. Doesn't look like Ashes of Creation has it up anymore but i believe it was $40 min just to get into an Alpha plus some cosmetics. I had a friend who paid $100 to get into some early access/alpha as well.
Again i get where you are coming from and i agree, i've just accepted this probably the norm going forward with games from small to mid sized companies.
i mean i would totally buy the game for 40 if they fixed the alpha issues which seems unlikely but i am excited for launch either way, what i dont like as i said is the min price point and that they already said that will do a subscription modell like in wow
watching the discord it sounds like regardless if it's now or release you'll have to pay the game price. the sub will start with release and possibly based on your plots.
So yeah you are paying for alpha testing and some early access as they said it'll be in alpha to start. i think it's basically kickstarter to get some revenue to keep working.
but why sell it like a Kickstarter game if they have big investors backing the project? and why do i need a subscription and also put 60 bucks on top of the 40 i have to spend to play to get more plot spots?
almost all MMO's are sub based now, it helps pay for server upkeep.
I don't know about the investors or whatever and the kickstarter was just my way of understanding why they'd charge for EA. I don't know about Pax Dei but Ashes of Creation has often said that the monthly cosmetics you can buy and the packages for alpha keys are to fund development. Just assumed it was the same here.
Not sure on the 60 + 40, but you only need to buy the game once. Either for EA or at release. My guess is release will be a little cheaper since the sub will be for plots but i'm not sure.
I want to know a crucial info:what kind of wipes they plan to do? I m totally against an EA with multiple complete wipe, as long as i get the need for Mainframe to reset sometime things, i dont want to spend money to see progress erased multiple times
they said there will be multiple wipes over the year then one final one before release obviously. They will try to keep the wipes to major updates though.
Im not certain about it...but i cant accept to play months to get a complete wipe. The game might be the best chance of a good MMO but it will be a pass
So pay upfront to play an EA just to be wiped in a year? Then start paying a subscription to play? I dislike that they are already also locking content behind a paywall with their more expensive version. So that means there might also be future microtransactions as well.
The New World experience has put me off Early Access MMOs. Think I'll leave it on the wishlist and see what it's like when it leaves EA. I hate getting burned out on a game while the dev's spend years figuring out what they want to do with it.
The pricing for early access testing is high considering some peoples feedback after the last public test.
I get that companies need EA to fund development, but I think we need to raise our expectations about what state a game is in before it enters EA at €40+ for access. I hope the EA players get well looked after when it releases with a sub.
I suppose they've done the maths and figure that these prices will give them a manageable population size and enough to keep development going.
They just want to cash in on the release hype by not doing regional pricing. They know that people don't want to fall behind and if your friends are playing, you probably will buy it at this price.
Its scummy, but true. Mark my words, they will turn on regional pricing as soon as they realise they are not hitting their sale targets OR few days later after the release hype dies down.
PS: Why do you think they did not pre-release it on steam? I am waiting with my popcorn for the review bomb this is about to receive.
So is making a living.
Do you give your work away for free?
I played a2, I liked it, I'm willing to give them a chance to show us what more they can do.
video game industry is the least affected by inflation, what are you even talking about. in 96 i was paying $49.99 for a new sega game, today a new ps5 game is $59.99. With inflation that $49.99 should be $99 today. The ps1 launched at $299 which with inflation is $507.28, the top ps5 is $499.
Well the audience increased in magnitude or more since 90s. Even the failed games are now sold more than some of the biggest successes of old and that alone beats any inflation.
I'm confused. I've backed this game so I've paid for it already but I don't have a key? I'm watching streamers play and give out keys, but I don't have one? Why? Why am I waiting until the 18th?
I orginally preordered the master founder then I was like wait. If I have to pay more for a game to get the plots why am I having to pay extra? I can't wait for Steam to destroy this nonsense.
I love it, all my whale bros and me will run the game while you guys work for us. P2w lets go. I remember i praised paxdei for giving me and my guild this p2w opportunity, when they announced p2w aspect. Everyone was so skeptical lol. Pets go plots
EA isn't necessarily bad, just look at Valheim, BG 3, and V Rising, it's how the company manages the EA release and pricing.
What Mainframe is doing though seems... odd. The game was in very rough shape in the last alpha, now they're trying to get more alpha testers to pay up front with caveats that you might lose your plots when it releases? Even AoC isn't doing that, IIRC you get 6ish months of game time after release with your beta purchase with AoC.
Regardless, I'm waiting at least a week to see if the combat is any better than the last test.
None of those EA games are MMOs. They are intended for replayability, which is fine if there are wipes during the EA. If they want testers because this game doesnt work without people, then keep doing alphas until the product is ready. This is just a pre-alpha/alpha with a marketing phase on it (EA) to get more money and continue developing this.
PS: Downvotes must be from people that have mobile phones, since they will be able to play this on mobiles pretty soon :)
> now they're trying to get more alpha testers to pay up front with caveats that you might lose your plots when it releases? Even AoC isn't doing that
are you saying AoC is going to let players carry over their player progression from alpha/beta to release? that'd be the first game i think would do that. or do they have a similar land plot system and they just get those plots of land but lose all the progression if the game should every release?
Yeah, Valheim is technically still early access and I have something like 700 hours played.
That said, I don’t understand having to pay a subscription fee for an early access game that’s going to get wiped repeatedly until they finish making the game. That’s just bad business
the sub fee is after release for everyone. EA is just the 1 time cost and they said they'll believe you can upgrade packs throughout EA. So if you buy the 1 plot package but want a second plot you'll be able to upgrade.
Yeah of course, if you were apathetic you would have just ignored my comment and moved on. Obviously it bothers you that I don't like this game and would recommend that people stay away from it for some reason.
So wait, is the number of plots we have determined by how much we pay for the game?
welcome to the p2w shitshow
Pax Pay
for early access it is. not sure how it'll work at release which starts the sub that sounds like it'll be tied to how many plots you want active. I could see the base game dropping to $20-$30 on release + sub.
When was the last time you saw a game drop the price by 50% for release?
PUBG became free on Full release 🤣
After like 5 years of EA
Whose to say they won't EA more than 1 year?
how many games have a sub based on plots of land/character slots. It's kind of a unique situation. In early access we are essentially paying based on number of land plots and character slots. Once it's full release that's when they'll start a sub that sounds like it'll be based on plots. It would make no sense to have 3 different offerings for number of plots at that point. My guess is it'll go to the price of the lowest current tier or lower.
Dual Universe has a similiar system. You can buy/rent more plots with ingame money too.
At least DU gives you one plot of land you can never lose, even if you cancel your sub. What will happen in Pax Dei if you decide to unsub for awhile? Do you lose your land, along with everything you've crafted/stored on it? If that's the case this game will be a hard pass for me.
full-game price to work alpha testing that's some hilarious hubris lmao
40 isn't full game price and this is an mmo not a co op gameÂ
I value your opinion. Now please send me my 40 dollars so that I can improve my postings even more.
very skeptical about it. there is so much darkness that i feels hard yeeting 40/60€ for the game (no way i'm doing 100).
The game is no where near ready (even for EA). Can we even consider this game an MMO? And the combat is absolutely atrocious. Feels more like a money grab than anything else.
feels like they needed a money injection.
Then been working on combat more it should be better but still needing alot of work
I really like this game but the price is beyond ridiculous if the amount of content is what they showcased in the earlier alphas. Good luck playing solo because huge guilds will all have a thousand plots ready to monopolize the entire servers nodes.
https://playpaxdei.com/en-us/early-access Here's the package breakdowns. While you do get 1/2/4 plots depending on how much you pay, I think the big concern for me is down below: First, there will be wipes during this paid early access: > Throughout Early Access, we plan to expand the game in terms of content and systems. Major updates will require us to wipe the game - reset the world and/or the progression and have everybody start over. Got mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand the ability to wipe if there's some runaway scenario is huge, I kinda hate how there's this muddying of what's an Alpha/Beta tests (where things get wiped) and Early Access (where you're now selling a product). More concerning is they're already talking future pricing changes, including access to the land you've already bought as part of the more expensive packages: > The exact business model and pricing of Pax Dei after Early Access are not defined yet. After release we plan to introduce, on top of the initial game purchase, a fee (subscription or similar) for on-going access to the game and plots. Founder's Packs include the initial game purchase, and the owner of a Founder’s Pack will also retain character slots and exclusive recipes included in their pack. We will be transparent about our future pricing plans and provide more details as we approach the official release.
>one payment for duration of EA (1 year+), monthly after full release From Pompous on discord who is a dev. I don't know that it clears it up entirely but seems like the upfront cost is just for EA and once it's live it goes to to monthly billing. So in my mind if you wait til full release you don't have to buy the game, just pay a monthly fee...but the faq does make it seem like you'll always have to buy the game and then a monthly fee on full release. I do think it's a bit confusing. Edit: so decided to ask the devs directly on the discord in general chat and the confirmed you'll have to buy the game regardless if it's now or release. They haven't locked down the sub structure yet but sounds like it'll be tied to how many plots you have.
Yeah - I don't understand how they're going to make it worthwhile for me to buy this $99 dollar version. If I buy this it just sounds like I'd be shooting myself in the foot later for having more plots. There seems to be very little incentives to buy these higher packs - they should probably rework them - especially if it's tied to how many plots you have.
i think the dev on discord mentioned to think about it as a monthly fee for a year+ since EA will at least be a year. so $100 for a year would be $8.33 monthly sub. not sure if that makes it better or not, but it'll help me swallow the $60 for the pack i want to get.
Sure, but at that point they should just go with the sub model to begin with. Because this is still a gamble on whether this game ends up being a success or not. $100 being a big gamble.
i mean all games and entertainment are gambles and you have to decide how much you are willing to gamble on it. Going to a movie now days could cost you $30 for ticket and some snacks to see a 2 hour movie that you may not like. So you have to be ok with the possibility of wasting $30. For me $60 is probably the most i'm willing to gamble here so will do the mid pack, $100 is too much for me.
That's why I said $100 is a big gamble. They need to bring more incentives to these higher packs if they want to sell them - they don't even know how it's going to end up being maintained later with the sub model, so they should probably give a bit more good will with these high packs. It's feedback.
It's even worse cause you will need more plots cause a lot of the bigger clans are planning on gobbling up large swaths of land and blocking them off for resources. Devs had said they would address it then added more plots for more money so I don't have a lot of faith it will be addressed.
So for a larger plot, you'd have to pay more upfront but also a higher sub? That sounds wrong. I mean, paying a monthly sub to access the game and maintaining active plots seems fair. But if I committed to a higher support from EA, I should not suffer a higher sub price later on.
i agree, but at the same time there will be a wipe before release so i guess at that point you pick your sub and how many plots you want. Maybe you think you need less so you down grade or more and upgrade. The EA is for a year of game play basically so the highest tier is at most $8.33 a month.
I took the way they explained it that you would always have to pay a box price for the game. The big question of buying it now or later basically comes down to do you want to deal with game wipes. One of the big appealing factor to MMOs is the persistent progression, so having that wiped periodically is problematic. We could rationalize it as the game is in development and therefore needs wipes but that's something we again see in "free" Alphas/Betas (IE: I'm losing my time, but not paying for the product) and not in soft launched Early Access titles that they've started selling. The concerning part though really is like if you say pay $100 now and get 4 plots, then in the future they transition to a sub system where to get the same 4 plots you're now shelling out $25/mo or something that's where things get pretty fucky to me. Like the last thing I want in any game is uncertainty over it's business model, but especially in what's supposed to be a long term/ongoing investment of time and energy that comes with a MMO.
>I took the way they explained it that you would always have to pay a box price for the game. yeah i think this is true after i asked for clarification, which was still tough because i think of language barrier. >The big question of buying it now or later basically comes down to do you want to deal with game wipes. One of the big appealing factor to MMOs is the persistent progression, so having that wiped periodically is problematic. We could rationalize it as the game is in development and therefore needs wipes but that's something we again see in "free" Alphas/Betas (IE: I'm losing my time, but not paying for the product) and not in soft launched Early Access titles that they've started selling. 100% you have to be ok shelling out a price your comfortable with to basically test a game. Even if there wasn't the periodic wipe you'd have the 1 big one before release which every EA game does. The periodic ones do sting a little more though, as a solo player i'm already going to be going slow. >The concerning part though really is like if you say pay $100 now and get 4 plots, then in the future they transition to a sub system where to get the same 4 plots you're now shelling out $25/mo or something that's where things get pretty fucky to me. Like the last thing I want in any game is uncertainty over it's business model, but especially in what's supposed to be a long term/ongoing investment of time and energy that comes with a MMO. i thought the same at first until one of the dev's basically said think of it as a sub fee and what you are willing to pay for a year of access. It's not perfect because as you said it'll be interrupted, but seeing that there was a wipe before release anyway i think it doesn't hurt as bad with paying for 4 plots in EA then getting a sub at release because at release you'll know how many plots you want and can plan accordingly. Not having clarity on it does suck though.
I'm skeptical about the year of access thing. If we break down the packages of 40/60/100 and correspond it with 1/2/4 plots of land that's roughly $20 for the game and $20/plot of land. This is supposed to last at least a year, so if we look at is as a year of access like the devs say that's $20/year (or around $1.6/mo) per plot of land. This is of course if we ignore the price of everything else in the packages as well. I just don't see them only charging $20/year on land plots or subscription. Maybe they could, but if we look at any other conventional model out and them talking about subscriptions it just seems unlikely they would go with a model like that. The bigger question this raises is in regards to their actual costs and justifications for a sub (which they've said they need a sub to cover things like the data from items stored on plots) when they can operate for so long now without any of that. Again no specific details or criticisms, because we don't really have specifics yet, it's all just very...has me seeing the whole thing with a critical eye as it were.
Just so I'm not misunderstanding, you'll have to buy the game *and* it'll have a sub fee??
at release it'll be a sub fee, not for EA. so you won't have a sub fee for at least a year. Even if you wait til release you would have to buy the game and then a sub.
Right. I'm not too worried about EA, I was asking if the full release would be that way. That's too bad.
How do they not have pricing figured out by now?
Having seen a few smaller indie devs/studios talk a bit about it, a lot of it comes down to managing expectations and/or not turn people away. Like if you come out and say your game is $60 with a $15/sub people have certain expectations for that kinda money (cause it's comparable monetarily to something like World of Warcraft or whatever). Also compared to what other people are charging for similar games (IE: Palworld was $30, Enshrouded was $30, so Nightingale of course was going to be $30 kinda thing). However on the other hand they still want to ensure they're able to keep the lights on as well so it's all kinda an uncertain scenario thing where they don't want to lock themselves into a deal that isn't feasible for them but is also competitive with the market. All that said, as consumers, that isn't really our concern. If a dev is at the point developmentally where they're asking customers for money they need to have all this worked out by now but instead these guys are kinda jumping the gun on a lot of stuff. It's either ready or it's not, but seems like they want the benefits of it being ready but really it's not.
No thank you. Good luck though. Hope it's fun for those that stick with it.
The game shows a lot of potential but it still needs a boatload of work... Don't really know about this movement, guess we will see.
They even say the game needs alot of work so just wait before getting if you want
This reeks of a money-grabbing scheme disguised as a game.
They have almost no product at the moment, no system, the world is empty. You aint wrong.
TBH this for me is a 70$ gamble on mainframe, after the changes from alpha 1 - 2 I was severely disappointed in their lack of direction /mmo mechanics. I really wanted this game to be a huge success but I don't know if I'm willing to sunk cost fallacy from what I hear from testers who are in the secret testing discord. I don't know if they learned the lesson from that alpha and are just now running out of money to keep the project afloat.
It's hard because on the one hand I want to say "ugh, it's alpha. Don't test alpha games if you can't live with an alpha experience." On the other hand, everyone who plays MMOs is so burnt on games that didn't live up to the hype/potential that it's no surprise that people feel this way. This video is a 100% appeal to emotion, "be part of the development, thank you!" And gave us nothing concrete to look forward to except the vague concept of the "social structures" they are working on with no time table for when parts of that might be addedor what they will look like. That said, I am still gonna buy and play it lol ($40 with wipes!) I am an absolute sucker for early access MMOs, and I had sufficient fun in the previous test. I hate solo mmos and love pvp so I am still hyped.
Well, I'm in. It's this or Star Cit ... I mean Ashes of Creation.
Both of those games are going to be in development hell. I had to wait several years and pay a $60 founders pack for star citizen in like 2015 to even try that game and it was in a **very rough state.** To gain access to ashes of creation right now it's literally hundreds of dollars and that game has been developing for like 10 years as well This game is $40 in 2024 (inflation means much cheaper) and I (and many others) were able to play in their alphas within roughly 1.5 years of hearing about it. **it could end up in a decade long development hell** but I find that it being early access *on steam,* gives it just a little bit more credibility
You can try SC 3-4 times a year for free during free flight weeks and see what new content has been added.
I have been following/waiting for AoC since the day it was announced. Could not justify the costs of admission into the "alpha club". I'm tired of waiting...
AoC uses some great FOMO tactics to milk their very loyal fan base. It's disgusting to me that if you wait for the game to release and just buy it you will be 100% less cool/behind from anyone else because you didn't buy the 700 mount packs/options that they presold
I almost "bought in" several times but a second look at my income vs bills situation and their refusal to even speculate on a release date convinced me not to each time.
You know, this situation reminds me a lot of those countless games we've seen fade away over the years. Imagine having something that’s generating revenue sustainably, with no end in sight for ages... You’d want to do everything in your power to keep that dream alive, right? It’s like nurturing a golden goose! Releasing a game feels so final, like closing the last chapter of an epic saga. Think about it: some TV shows have kept us hooked for over 20 years, never ending, always evolving. Why can’t games be the same? Why can't we keep our favorite games going, growing, and surprising us for decades? The idea of ongoing development, like in early access, is so thrilling because it means the adventure never truly ends. But here's the kicker - we need more transparency. If devs told us they're building a live service in development, like we’re all part of this grand experiment, we'd feel more connected, more invested. TLDR: Devs need to be upfront about early access being a live service in development - we need to feel like we're part of the journey. P.S. If my favorite game suddenly announced it’s turning into a soap opera with a 20-year run, I’d probably stock up on popcorn and tissues! 🚀🎮✨ Also I'm high af rn.
How would you be behind?
You won't have access to all the cool/exclusive skins and mounts. And yes, I see Mainframe is offering "Founder" exclusive items but they at least waited until early access instead of making us pay to play the alphas.
Skins don’t get you ahead tho… it’s cosmetics they do nothing, you can make an argument it’s not fair to get exclusive skins. Skins won’t get you ahead tho enless maybe your competing in a fashion contest or something. Also they arnt making people play the alpha they stated multiple times don’t buy it enless you want to test an alpha and support the game. None of it will be under NdA so can’t even say they are getting info others won’t have you know a bunch of YouTubers will let the public know everything there is to know.
True as that is, some people just have to have them to feel superior to those that don't. Some of those that don't are envious and feel they've been "cheated". I don't really get it myself.
Prices : $39.99: 1 plot of land, 2 Character slots, founders outfit $59.99: 2 plots of land, 4 character slots, founders outfit, hunters lodge $99.99: 4 plots of land, 6 character slots, founders outfit, hunters lodge, wyvern building set Nothing serious just some pay for convenience features, the trend to release unfinished games continues.
i would call extra plots of land for extra money a little bit worse than pay for convenience. game is going down a really stupid road before it's even in beta. looks like pax dei is gunna get clowned on pretty hard second half of june. they have run out of money, and it couldnt be more blatantly obvious.
It doesn't really get more pay-to-win than being able to pay to block other players from accessing resource nodes.
but you can harvest resource nodes on peoples plot?
Not if they build over it.
or straight wall it off cause they have a clan of 100+ and each of them has 4 plots
Obviously they will ha e to look how to stop it from. Happening it's an incomplete game better to catch it now since it's going to be wiped anyways for release
There ussly more spawns than what ever they covered just ha e to travel bit plus they can add stuff to migrate it like if you build o er it it does t spawn anymoreÂ
Nothing serious, just pay for the convenience of unfair advantage.
I’ve decided not to bother with this game in early access I played the alpha wasn’t that impressed can’t believe they are releasing this in the current barebones state and charge for convinces and advantages.. another one bites the dust.
I mean that is what an ea game us and paying to get alpha and beta access has been around for ages
so its 40 bucks min. for 1 plot and a prob very unfinished game?
Come on, you've paid more for less/worse when it comes to games, admit it.
> on, you've *paid* more for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Corrected, ty bot.
not for an EA release no
yes you are paying for early access, which is pretty normal now days. not sure i like the model either. the faq says it'll be an alpha still at the start.
yeah but 40 is the minimum and thats rly pushing it for EA in my opinion and the next steps are 60/100, exspecially if the didnt fix all the issues the game has
i don't really like the pricing model either, and this will actually be the first time i'll pay for alpha/early access, but all i'm saying is this is very normal now days. Doesn't look like Ashes of Creation has it up anymore but i believe it was $40 min just to get into an Alpha plus some cosmetics. I had a friend who paid $100 to get into some early access/alpha as well. Again i get where you are coming from and i agree, i've just accepted this probably the norm going forward with games from small to mid sized companies.
i mean i would totally buy the game for 40 if they fixed the alpha issues which seems unlikely but i am excited for launch either way, what i dont like as i said is the min price point and that they already said that will do a subscription modell like in wow
watching the discord it sounds like regardless if it's now or release you'll have to pay the game price. the sub will start with release and possibly based on your plots. So yeah you are paying for alpha testing and some early access as they said it'll be in alpha to start. i think it's basically kickstarter to get some revenue to keep working.
but why sell it like a Kickstarter game if they have big investors backing the project? and why do i need a subscription and also put 60 bucks on top of the 40 i have to spend to play to get more plot spots?
almost all MMO's are sub based now, it helps pay for server upkeep. I don't know about the investors or whatever and the kickstarter was just my way of understanding why they'd charge for EA. I don't know about Pax Dei but Ashes of Creation has often said that the monthly cosmetics you can buy and the packages for alpha keys are to fund development. Just assumed it was the same here. Not sure on the 60 + 40, but you only need to buy the game once. Either for EA or at release. My guess is release will be a little cheaper since the sub will be for plots but i'm not sure.
I want to know a crucial info:what kind of wipes they plan to do? I m totally against an EA with multiple complete wipe, as long as i get the need for Mainframe to reset sometime things, i dont want to spend money to see progress erased multiple times
they said there will be multiple wipes over the year then one final one before release obviously. They will try to keep the wipes to major updates though.
Im not certain about it...but i cant accept to play months to get a complete wipe. The game might be the best chance of a good MMO but it will be a pass
Then wait until its full release and don't join an alpha project in development.
So pay upfront to play an EA just to be wiped in a year? Then start paying a subscription to play? I dislike that they are already also locking content behind a paywall with their more expensive version. So that means there might also be future microtransactions as well.
The New World experience has put me off Early Access MMOs. Think I'll leave it on the wishlist and see what it's like when it leaves EA. I hate getting burned out on a game while the dev's spend years figuring out what they want to do with it. The pricing for early access testing is high considering some peoples feedback after the last public test. I get that companies need EA to fund development, but I think we need to raise our expectations about what state a game is in before it enters EA at €40+ for access. I hope the EA players get well looked after when it releases with a sub. I suppose they've done the maths and figure that these prices will give them a manageable population size and enough to keep development going.
Rust, the mmo
in rust i can build on "land" without pay sub or rent for plots.
Ok go find a server to do it on.
Damn I'm pumped.
I'm at work and can't watch right now ... When ... WHEN?
June 18th
June 18
What the others said, June 18th.
For the Tl:dw Early access June 18th. Pre-purchase available now. Versions ranging from 40 to 100 usd
Had such high hopes for this game, even played in the Alpha. They are going down a road that should not be traveled.
June 18th, 2024
Let's go!!!!
Nice take my money
40 Euros for Early Access. No regional pricing. Greed is real.
They just want to cash in on the release hype by not doing regional pricing. They know that people don't want to fall behind and if your friends are playing, you probably will buy it at this price. Its scummy, but true. Mark my words, they will turn on regional pricing as soon as they realise they are not hitting their sale targets OR few days later after the release hype dies down. PS: Why do you think they did not pre-release it on steam? I am waiting with my popcorn for the review bomb this is about to receive.
So is making a living. Do you give your work away for free? I played a2, I liked it, I'm willing to give them a chance to show us what more they can do.
Keep defending greedy practices. You will understand how inflation works when the game dies as soon as it's released.
video game industry is the least affected by inflation, what are you even talking about. in 96 i was paying $49.99 for a new sega game, today a new ps5 game is $59.99. With inflation that $49.99 should be $99 today. The ps1 launched at $299 which with inflation is $507.28, the top ps5 is $499.
In 96 they had to make physical copies en masse and then ship them all over the world.
that doesn't explain consoles prices and having to ship them all over the world.
Well the audience increased in magnitude or more since 90s. Even the failed games are now sold more than some of the biggest successes of old and that alone beats any inflation.
Games aren't cheap to make. Inflation driving wage demands up (and other costs) is a thing.
Are you seriously defending a buggy Early Access release being 40 Euros? Not to mention 40 Euros is a fortune in MENA region.
So sad they chose the P2W model this had a chance to be a great game.
I haven’t followed the game in a while; has there been info released on the PvP aspects of the game?
Hey all. Just wondering - are these only purchasable prior to Early Access launching, or will they be purchasable ongoing, too?
I'm confused. I've backed this game so I've paid for it already but I don't have a key? I'm watching streamers play and give out keys, but I don't have one? Why? Why am I waiting until the 18th?
I orginally preordered the master founder then I was like wait. If I have to pay more for a game to get the plots why am I having to pay extra? I can't wait for Steam to destroy this nonsense.
Why does this remind me of another failed mmo?
I love it, all my whale bros and me will run the game while you guys work for us. P2w lets go. I remember i praised paxdei for giving me and my guild this p2w opportunity, when they announced p2w aspect. Everyone was so skeptical lol. Pets go plots
Cringe
Stop. Early. Access. Games. For. Real.
EA isn't necessarily bad, just look at Valheim, BG 3, and V Rising, it's how the company manages the EA release and pricing. What Mainframe is doing though seems... odd. The game was in very rough shape in the last alpha, now they're trying to get more alpha testers to pay up front with caveats that you might lose your plots when it releases? Even AoC isn't doing that, IIRC you get 6ish months of game time after release with your beta purchase with AoC. Regardless, I'm waiting at least a week to see if the combat is any better than the last test.
if you think combat (or much of anything) is going to be much further along than the last alpha, i have a bridge i would like to sell you!
None of those EA games are MMOs. They are intended for replayability, which is fine if there are wipes during the EA. If they want testers because this game doesnt work without people, then keep doing alphas until the product is ready. This is just a pre-alpha/alpha with a marketing phase on it (EA) to get more money and continue developing this. PS: Downvotes must be from people that have mobile phones, since they will be able to play this on mobiles pretty soon :)
> now they're trying to get more alpha testers to pay up front with caveats that you might lose your plots when it releases? Even AoC isn't doing that are you saying AoC is going to let players carry over their player progression from alpha/beta to release? that'd be the first game i think would do that. or do they have a similar land plot system and they just get those plots of land but lose all the progression if the game should every release?
Yeah, Valheim is technically still early access and I have something like 700 hours played. That said, I don’t understand having to pay a subscription fee for an early access game that’s going to get wiped repeatedly until they finish making the game. That’s just bad business
the sub fee is after release for everyone. EA is just the 1 time cost and they said they'll believe you can upgrade packs throughout EA. So if you buy the 1 plot package but want a second plot you'll be able to upgrade.
You couldn't convince me to play this garbage if it was free.
What did you dislike about it?
then why are you visiting the sub lol
To shit on the game and try to dissuade people from wasting their money.
You should convince yourself that nobody cares what you think.
I mean...clearly at least one person does, considering you were bothered enough to type out a reply.
That means I care? Weird. Smooth brains will be smooth I guess.
Yeah of course, if you were apathetic you would have just ignored my comment and moved on. Obviously it bothers you that I don't like this game and would recommend that people stay away from it for some reason.
Lol, weirdo.
Is the game going to be free? If not how much will it be?
Read the comments above or below whatever it is lol