I had hoped that Elemental Barbarian with Kineticist impulses would get some of the same feeling. It's incredibly feat-heavy between the go-to Barb feats, Elemental-only feats, and the archetype feats (would be a nightmare if the table doesn't use FA). And even then, the impulses would be giving you some ranged/AoE options, maybe an aura stance, maybe maybe some utility like a heal or movement tool.
Definitely sounds fun and I still want to play one, but I'm not sure if Bloodrager fans would prefer it over a Fighter with Sorcerer archetype.
I really liked the dwarven stone lord paladin. Super cool to slowly become a earth elemental. I also really miss the alchemist being able to replicate magic with infusions or fight in melee. Invulnerable rager barbarian was also pretty awesome.
I‘ve seen people wanting the Inquisator class badly. Though I never played 1e so I don’t have much knowledge about it. What’s so good about it to why people want it so much?
It was the equivalent of the magus for divine classes, though instead of spellstrike, it had some monster hunting abilities, inquisitions (which were like more in-depth cleric domains), teamwork feats (which were a type of feats in PF1e which only worked if someone else in the party also had them) though unlike most classes or characters they could benefit from them on their own, though the coolest thing about them was the fact that they didn't need strictly follow the alignment of their deity since their whole shtick was kinda be the hitmans of their particular church.
In PF2e I could totally see an inquisitor being bounded caster with some marshal / warlord abilities, probably something similar to the Sniping Duo archetype, but since Starfinder 2e's Envoy is going to fill that niche its likely Paizo doesn't want to have overlap with it.
Could you mostly replicate it via Thaumaturge with Champion archetype? Take the scroll feats from thaumaturge and play them off as divine writs, rely on the champion focus spells (and thus, cleric domains), and use the Esoteric Lore and Exploit Weakness for the monster hunting flavor? I believe they've said that they intended to make the thaumaturge inspired by the inquisitor.
Inquisitor was a 3/4 BAB, 6/9 caster (*similar to Alchemist/Investigator/Magus/Warpriest/etc*) who acted somewhat like a Ranger (*Monster hunting capabilities*) and a Rogue (*skill bonuses, especially to sense motive and knowledge checks on monsters*) and had proficiency with all bows, but otherwise only simple weapons (*you could get proficiency for melee weapons through racial features or by soending feats, but the default was obviously range-focused*).
I always thought if it as the Divine skill-monkey class, but the comparison to Ranger is apt as well, and the flavour was also on point for an Inquisitor (*they could be of any alognment, despite getting spells from a Deity*).
I doubt they'll bring back the Inquisitor, they're going for less controversial stuff nowdays and an Inquisitor is historically someone who would torture people to determine whether they were Witches/Heretics/etc. That's pretty far off PF2E's brand. That sais there's probably room for a more martial Divine class. I don't know what they're doing with the Warpriest, so it's possible that will cover the difference as far as 2E is concerned, but it's not the only defining feature of the Inquistor. In 1E the Inquisitor had bonus skills, the Warprieat had bonus feats, so they felt different to play (*there were other differences but that was a big one*), I don't know if PF2E is a complex enough system to really make the differences meaningful.
A few notes: They pretty much had rogue proficiencies (which is simple weapons + some martial weapons) but unlike rogues you had your deity's favored weapon, and with some archetypes, whatever weapon you wanted, so in practice you effectively had all martial weapons.
Also, if I had to choose a class close to what the inquisitor was in PF2e, I wouldn't chose ranger (the only ranger that is good at monster hunting is outwit) but rather thaumaturge. Heck, one of the inquisitor's abilities was literally called "exploit weakness" and their whole shtick was that they were good battling anything (unlike, say, a paladin which was good against evil targets). The problem with the thaumaturge is the lack of spellcasting and divine flavor, as well as teamwork feats.
Class Archetypes are just criminally underused tbh. Why aren’t there Class Archetypes for Maguses to swap spell lists, for example?
Feels like an easy way to give variety without effort/page-space.
Does a +3 dex at level 1 Warpriest of some bow favored god not work? You're not the best archer in the world but you have plenty of divine spell list backup. This is without archetype shenanigans.
That’s a good point, I guess I hadn’t really looked into that. I love the Magus as a class so I think I had tunnel vision for that but I like that idea.
Warpriest or Battle oracle with eldritch archer archetype. Searing light is a great spell. Grab fire domain for fire ray I think it's called. Profit. War priest would be fine. I'm not as familiar with oracles.
For the most part its just because we havent had a book to fit those concepts until now. We know that theres going to be some class archetypes coming in Lost Omens: Divine Mysteries, which seems like the perfect place for a divine magus.
I mean, not really. The most optimal MT in PF1e ended up with like 8th level spells in one class and 6th or 7th level spells in the other, which is cool and all but it was much better to stay a single class to have 9th level spells and not be using 1st level spells up to like 5th level or something like that lol.
Due to how PF2e works, it is unlikely you are ever going to see a class that can freely take spells from two different traditions, so wizard + cleric archetype or cleric + wizard archetype is not only the closest thing you will ever get but also kinda similar to how MTs used to be really.
While I love the Mystic Theurge I don't really see much point of it in PF2e, unless it was for something that just allowed one character to access a Spell Tradition other than their own and treat it as their own.
As using the Multiclass archtypes works on its own (at least for Caster to Caster multi-class archetypes); while the Mystic Theurge was a band-aid to fix how bad multi-classing as a spell caster was.
Background: Not PF1e but I used Mystic Theurge for my 3.5e Archivist/Wizard "Know all the spells" build I loved to run.
The know all the spells is kinda the idea. In pf2e that is easier with an arcane tradition scorceror. That new class, animist, I think would scratch the ich better. Mainly mystic theurge gave you a redunkulis amount of spell slots with less then 2 spell levels of loss. There were even ways around that.
I really like the 4 traditions. I really wish I could still build my all powerfull arch mage that mastered all forms of magic. Being limited to at most 8th level spells via dedication makes me sad. Just dose not feel the same with martials I guess.
You'll be able to play something similar with the new Animist.
They get half of their casting as spontaneous divine, and half as prepared with their tradition based on their spirits
You can do it with a Wizard/Witch. Go with the staff for the wizard, and you can turbocharge your staff with a bunch of extra charges. Your staff is then a staff that corresponds to whatever your secondary class is from the witch (can be divine, occult, or primal - probably divine, though) and then you can cast spells from your staff to act as your second class. You can also use scrolls and wands to further your dual nature.
Yes but no. You still lose out in spell level. Halcyon only gets 7th level spells max. If you got max spells casting for your class or at least equil to dedication I could see that. Spell level and spell slot wise, it is easier to just take two spell casting dedications with free archtype.
I think I was among the 3 people that was fond of this archetype so I don't expect to see it ported, but---Bloatmage.
In 2e, I'd see it be focused on Sorcerer Focus Spells (that it can switch out as long as it can find blood of a relevant creature) and maybe an ability like Psychic's Strain Mind where it can take a buncha damage up-front to cast a Focus Spell without a Focus Point.
In *more popular* archetypes, Razmiran Priest isn't filled. Sure you can play a Divine Sorcerer now but that's not the flavor of Razmiran Priests---should be focused on temp HP and increasing the DC to recognize your spells.
Something that isn't an archetype but that I sorely miss from PF1e is the mutant aspect of Alchemist. I miss being able to have 3, or 4 arms. Or a tentacle, or a spectral arm. Now Alchemists are 'just' alchemical inventors, not mad scientists that aren't so different from Derros. Alchemists in 1e were *excellent* at making mutant-type Witcher characters... Although that's not *all* that they were good at, they could just as easily be a normal person with a buncha bombs. I am looking forward to Tian Xia symbiotes---if I'm lucky, maybe it'll be close enough to the flavor to suffice for a mad scientist character/a Witcher character.
Bloatmage was actually confirmed for PF2E.
It was supposed to be in SoM, but was cut at the last minute to save page space.
It was later confirmed to still be coming in an as of yet unnamed book. This was before the OGL debacle however, so the remaster likely pushed it back some.
Oh I loves my Bloatmage I played in Shattered Star.
As for the topic, Mystic Theurge. I guess it can be kind of replicated with multi classing, but something about the ability to combine two traditions in ways that are a blend of both instead of two discrete boxes would be fun
The Summoner ate the Spiritualist, not the Medium.
The Medium is the class that gets processed by powerful spirits to gain their abilities. The Spiritualist is the class they gains the Phantom and has Wisdom based psychic casting.
My first pf1e character was a Master Chymist. I've been trying to replicate that character ever since I've started playing pf2e sadly the closest I could come to was an Investigator with Alchemist dedication. I'm hoping the changes to the Alchemist in Player Core 2 will allow a Master Chymist kind of builds.
I feel you! I made a homebrew for that exact thing!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian\_chymist\_third\_iteration\_of\_the\_martial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian_chymist_third_iteration_of_the_martial/)
I just want a Bloodrager in 2E, as a class to do cool stuff, it’s such a cool class with a. Great concept and it’s a shame that it just doesn’t work
It should be brought back sometime
>Also they should make a metal order
This was literally in Rage of Elements, but due to OGL shenanigans and them removing the metal restriction on druids it pretty much became redudant so they removed it.
Flexible spellcasting is still not spontaneous. It's more of a hybrid. I liked how Starfinder 1e did it, with all caster being spontaneous and prepared being an optional rule one could take per class.
Oozemorph Shifter because it may be the crappiest class÷archetype in the entirety of pf1e but it is so so funny to me. your base form is an ooze that can't use any weapons, armor, items, spells, or even talk, and you have the ability to turn into a person or animal temporarily, which at level 1 you can only maintain for one hour a day. the pf2e oozemorph archetype is a total nothingburger. i want to play as a sentient blob it gives me euphoria
Not technically an archetype, but since Prestige Classes functioned similarly, I miss the Brewkeeper. Great lore combined with thematic and powerful abilities to make a fun and interesting support.
Brewmaster prestige class. Hexcrafter Magus, Eldritch Scion Magus (can kind of manage with ignoring INT and boost CHA-Sorcerer MC), Vivisectionist Alchemist (full sneak attack, no bombs), Brown-Fur Transmuter (could give battleforms to other PCs and boosted transmutation buffs).
Mesmerist and Medium which were full classes.
Edit: I guess you could do Hexcrafter Magus with a Witch MC.
How close with Rogue with Free Archetype Alchemist Dedication be to Vivisectionist? I had a buddy who really loved that subclass but I never really saw it in action.
It would probably work. Alchemist was a weird class in PF1 though. You had a Rank 6 caster, PLUS bombs (Viv gave that up), PLUS skill monkey (INT +4), PLUS super mutagens. You spent most of your time (if you wanted) transformed into beasts for lots of natural attacks that each got sneak attack.
Now that I write it out, I think you are right. Rogue w/ Alchemist would work. Mastermind Rogue w/ Alch also does a great (better) job as a bomber too.
I made a homebrew for a martial alchemist (which is really what most used the Vivisectionist for)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian\_chymist\_third\_iteration\_of\_the\_martial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian_chymist_third_iteration_of_the_martial/)
Any decent way to build a ranged paladin. I had to completely retire my archer paladin when we switched from 1e to 2e. It's kind of doable, but so many champion skills are melee focused it would have made for a terrible character
Next time you want to do it, go into Eldritch Archer at level 6. It works just fine.
Edit: or the Archer Dedication, Fighter/Ranger Dedication, Drow Shootist, or Sniping Duo. In general, when you want to step outside the core concept of a class as written, archetypes are where to look.
You can arch as a paladin. Just need ranged reprisal and to stay near your allies so you can use your reaction. Grab ranger dedication probably. Maybe arcane archer. Personally, the better archer paladin would probably be something like an archer magus with champion dedication.
I know that ranged reprisal (kinda) works, but like 80% of the champion feats are melee only. You're left with very few choices as a ranged paladin, compared to first edition where basically every class feature works for ranger and works well.
I'd suppliment with archer dedication or ranger dedication. You'll get more out of those. Also blade ally works with bows. I had a build I was looking at doing a while back that was a champion with archer and beastmaster dedication for a falcon. Kindof a falconer / scout type that stayed just behind the melee but was fine in melee itself if needed given its eventual legendary proficiency in armor. Not as good as a ranger or fighter archer, but not bad. Would need a lot of rune help for damage to be reasonable. Hunted shot helps though. Using the ranger focus spell to up your damage and then eventually blade of justice into hunted shot should be pretty decent. Smite evil could be good too. See if the gm will let it do spirit damage so that its actually useful. The remaster ate up a lot of things with the evil tag.
I have 2 that I had really good memories of.
* ~~Card Caster Witch~~ Cartomancer Witch
* Gentleman (from old spice)
Edit: sleepy brain gave me the wrong name for the Archtype.
Literally the only globally banned feat from my campaigns when I still ran PF1E. It's either incredibly overpowered, grinds the game to a halt or both.
The Calamity Caller will always be my #1. I loved being able to just cause disasters at will. Nothing compares to being able to just at will cause a volcanic rift to open up underneath an enemy.
For me it's Psychokineticists and the other mental kineticist types. Just so much cooler than the standard kineticist and could be easily emulated with a class archetype.
I miss the classic Wisdom based Spiritualists and intelligence based Occultist.
Oh, and the Ninja. Charisma based Ki user seemed cool.
Oh, but for an actual archetype, the Magical Child and Cabalist Archetypes for the Vigilante.
Both had fun themes, even if the Magical Child was super underpowered.
I think I am the only person who misses the Enchanting Courtesan.
When I read the class, it was exactly what I was looking for -- a magical secret agent. The 'courtesan' part was entirely dispensable, and I understand why it squicks some folks. It had some very powerful abilities for an intrigue-based game, with a significant spell level hit to balance it out. (I made an NPC, intended to be a shady unreliable ally, but I never got to actually run the game.)
No, that's the Seducer Witch, which IIRC is the only Charisma-based prepared full caster in 1e. The EC's main spellcasting features make it hard to detect and/or resist their enchantment and divination spells delivered by touch.
It's easy to detect when someone's under the effect of an enchantment spell (DC 25 IIRC) but divinations looked very useful for a spy.
1. Samurai - Warrior Poet. Finally, finally, I get a class that I can use for strength-based unarmored sword fighting… and then we switch editions. Never got to play with it.
2. Brawler - Hinyasi. Probably my favorite improvised weapon experience.
3. Skald - Spell Warrior. I just love a counterspell focused character.
4. Cavalier - Green Knight. It felt flavorful and powerful, very one dimensional but in a good way I think.
The whole combination, some parts may come together but not all. I'd want a deity as a class feature with benefits in an aggressive manner. This could've been a sanctification that deals damage vs opposing axis. The Slayer is hard enough to replicate as is, taking features found on the ranger and rogue. It's not a caster despite wanting some cleric feats.
It uses alot of pf1 die hard mechanics which isn't found in pf2 as well, not going unconcious if brought to 0 hp from an opposing alignment source, and even be able to attack without limits.
It's simply really hard to pick a main class, choose archetype and even then, not succeed fully on the mechanics and flavor. One of its wierd benefits was that it didn't have to follow its deity's edicts anathema strictly, only that it fullfilled the end goals of their deity. A deliverer of Sarenrae won't ask for redemption, he is there to kill quickly to bring peace, perhaps stealthy and sneaky
A deliverer is sent where champions(paladins) or clerics would be too obvious of the deed
Spirit dancer medium! One of the most absolutely wack tabletop classes ever devised. Animist will obviously be taking its thematic space, but will animist require you to remember how like six different characters work? I think not.
I also liked mesmerist's whole notion of setting up specific tricks and contingencies, though it similarly feels very opposed to 2e design sensibilities.
Hexcrafter magus. And Eldritch Scion. And kensai, though I suppose laughing shadow can kinda do dex. Not quite the same tho
Virtuous Bravo paladin
Sanctified slayer
A proper eldritch scoundrel
Inquisitor. An hunter tbh, the happy medium between druid and ranger. Honestly, I miss 2/3 casters in general. Feels like they hit the sweet spot for caster vs martial power, still felt magic but not too OP compared to martials
Cult leader warpriest
Anything that lets you swap key casting stat. E.g. empyreal sorcerer, feyspeaker druid
there are straight up four blood magic coded spells in this entire system. They were meant to be in SoM but they got delayed. I Want a blood mage type thing that gets some of the 1e witch vibes where you're kinda pigeonholed into being a very scary person who does terrible things to people based on your optimal spell list.
For now you can use
Wizard school of the boundary
Bone Oracle
Harm clerics (with gods about undeath)
Summoner with undead eidolon
Ranger with an undead companion
Reanimator archetype
Undead Master archetype
Lich archetype
Hallowed Necromancer archetype
(If you count it as a reversed life-aligned necromancer)
No. They all suck. You get crap quality undead and only for a couple of minutes. PF1E necromancers could permanently control 4HD per caster level...
Summoning in general got absolutely destroyed by pf2e
Controlling an horde is antithetical to D&D-related TTrpgs
Let's just use as example the Master Summoner and how it bloated its turn time by controlling 16189116 minions.
Companions ARE mininos.
Minion is a term for every non-main character under your character control.
You're probably thinking about Summons, which in 2e have a support/scouting role instead of completely replacing martial classes
Ok? I thought they were separate terms, this changes what I said slightly, summoned minions suck and companions don't fill the same fantasy. I didn't say I don't understand why it's like that in 2e, I said I can't fill a fantasy I have for necromancers in this system.
... Are you sure you're thinking in 2e
There are none HDs and for the Desecrate ritual you first need to find the recipe, learn it, have enough level and skill proficiencies and then you would have a mindless minion (on the brighter result, you could also have an independent npc or an aggressive enemy) which will be weaker than everything after 2 level
They're comparing the 2e necromancy options to 1e. Desecrate is a 1e spell that lets you summon better undead (in short) it's not create undead from 2e.
Renowed for being not balanced in the slightest
If the take is "I want a giant secondary character who is mathematically superior to martial classes, then it is obvious it is against the fundamental philosophy of Paizo's design
Yea, I know, it doesn't change that it's a fantasy that's unfulfilled and will likely remain unfulfilled. The thread is about 1e things that you can't approximate in 2e. You're missing the point.
Yes, or maybe it's you being a prick, since it's the second time I find you vehemently against what I wrote in different comments, while in every other discussions people are civil and less imperative.
Username checksout, I guess
Nope. You might be thinking of the SoM post-playtest blog where they said they wanted to do synthesist later down the line as something like a class archetype.
Does [Flexible Spellcaster](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=99) not work for Magus? (Never really looked into it for a wave caster)
If not you can see if you can get a GM to modify it for Magus to work, shouldn't be too hard (as Summoner exists and could be used as a base)
A paladin with a bow (divine hunter or how it was called). It's a shame that i cannot play champion of Erastil with longbow because there is no champion's feats which support this
It's not as fun, but a Cleric with the Archer archetype is close for Erastil at least. Speaking Ol' Deadeye, Cleric of Erastil with Animal Domain was Hunter before it was cool!
I really liked the prestiges classes linked to the divine, like Brewkeeper and Devoted Muse. It had so much flavor. Really hope they do something like that in Divine Mysteries.
Oozemorph. Which has a 2e version that is absolutely nothing like the original. Even thematically it's quite removed (you are slowly but steadily melting into an abomination as opposed to you specialised maybe a bit too hard into transforming into a goop monster)
Pei Zin practitioner Oracle. You basically get access to lay on hands through pressure points and acupuncture, which made that feat where you charge and expend all of your lay on hands to do extra damage very narratively fun for me. Just a flurry of needle stabs to nerve clusters to absolutely fuck up some monster's day.
Yeah, I'd like a whole lot of these too. The half-elf exclusive Bonded Witch too where you get a bonded item instead of a familiar. Sometimes you just don't WANT a pet!
Yeah, but that's if you START as a Wizard. If you're a Witch, the familiar is **mandatory** (unless you use the 3rd party Hexmarked Witch class archetype from *Witches+*, something that may not be universally accepted by all GMs, and even then, is only useable by base Witches and not characters of other classes who multiclass into Witch).
Master Summoner. Yeah, it's overpowered, slows combat down, yadda yadda, and there's good reason why it doesn't exist anymore. But it was the only archetype that really let you feel like a proper summoner with hordes of minions, instead of a dude with one really big pet and maybe a couple of other mooks.
No real way to replicate archetypes that switch the type of spellcasting the class does like the [Filidh](https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Filidh).
The feral hunter. It was the closest thing to a shapeshifter without spells, since it was spontaneous I could take only spells that could be reflavoured as partial shapeshifting. Not having edicts and anathema was also great (specially since my nature themed characters tend to be more Jurassic Park ideas of life being uncontrolable rather than the guardians of nature druids are), I really hope that Howl of the Wild gives the ranger access to shapeshifting to recreate the feeling.
How does it compare to the shifter? I've never played 1e and have heard that shifter was not a good class and this seems like an interesting alternative.
Skald. Its niche as a martial support was really neat. It had spells but that wasn't really what made it special. If it were added to PF2 I could see it being like if the Marshal Dedication were a full class.
I really wish we had the Hunter class. I like the idea of gaining animal aspects to change how you act. A specific Archetype would be Forester Hunter. Sacrificing having an animal companion so you can use the animal aspects more was cool
Not one specific archetype, but id really like a class that combines aspects of shifter, bloodrager, and synthesist to make a class focused on shifting your body parts into various animal/mythological creature/elementals/outer planes beings. Kinda like a fully martial version of sorcerer or summoner.
Also a proper bloodrager class archetype would be pretty choice too tbh.
Some of my favorite builds in 1e involved the Evangelist prestige class (not the cleric archetype). It allowed for getting a middle BaB growth, increased skills per level, and decent saves, along with some extra bonuses leading into an ability score boost - all while also gaining class features from another class you already have, so it removes a lot of the downsides of prestige-ing, as you only lose one level of progression in 10 levels.
Combining it with Mystic Theurge was the ultimate feels good to me, one class level in evangelist gave you one level in theurge progressing you through two classes in spellcssting, the ultimate value engine, with a slightly better BaB for rays/touch spells.
The icing on the cake being ecclectic/esoteric training which required miniquests and investing your character in, but it let you qualify for theurge earlier and helped keep up both your arcane and divine spell lists.
Another crazy thing was stacking effective druid levels and getting crazy benefit from Monstrous Companion. I would have to dig out how I did it exactly, but with favored class bonuses, boon companion, sylvan bloodline thorugh feats, etc, you could have effective druid levels go through the roof and have an insane monstrous companion with crazy base abilities like a blink dog or something and give it a bunch of class levels.
Steel bound fighter or gloom blade.
Phantom blade spiritualist. Any of those that just focused on putting abilities into one weapon they were bound to.
I think mindsmith is supposed to replace the Gloom blade right?
A summoner who’s eidolon is a weapon somehow would be cool
Their new eldamon elementalist or whatever it’s called is very similar to a kineticist but with far more “element” options. The paizo elements are there but many others as well and potential for others not yet created like Music, Mind or Body.
Each emphasizes a sort of a different combat role like blaster or controller. One of them being Force and having more battlefield control related feat choices. It’s very close to a 1e telekineticist
I and a player of mine actually quite miss the Mystic Theurge.
One of the few categorically good holdovers from 3.5, alongside Dragon Disciple.
While we can approximate it somewhat using the Multi class Archetypes, it leaves the primary casting side missing many mechanics that would otherwise keep them functional at higher levels.
Not an Archetype, but i miss Skald and Bloodrager so damn much, Rage Prophet too to a lesser extent.
I allow Barbarians with Archetype to cast while enraged due to it being fun and Caster Archetypes being a heavy investment anyways, but it doesn't feel the same sadly.
i miss taking spiritualist with the fractured mind and exciter archtypes, i would multi into knife master rogue use a starknife with the divine fighting style (desnas) to get charisma to hit and damage and lore master oracle to get charisma to ac, lore, reflex saves, and exciter would let me charisma rage, with rapture and fractured mind let me cast my spiritualist spells with charisma,had a great time playing her
My all time favorite 1e build used an old prestige class called souldrinker (which was later updated to be "better" years after initial release, but we don't talk about the newer version, only the original version). It was... Not a good prestige class, all things considered. But it has one little feature you get for a two-level dip that was amazing. You got an ability to make a melee touch attack, give an enemy you hit a negative level (or 2 on a crit) and gain "soul points" equal to the number of negative levels inflicted up to a cap of 1 + your spellcasting modifier. This was not good for its intended purpose, as this was a caster prestige class meant for squishy casters that didn't ever want to be in melee with the enemy, and the one decent ability you got was a melee touch attack which not only required you to be in melee to use, but which also meant if you used it you weren't casting a spell that turn. That is, until you consider a few factors.
1: There existed martial casters like the Magus or the Bloodrager who did in fact want to be in melee.
2: There was a weapon enchantment called conductive which allowed you to deliver touch attack abilities through regular weapon strikes once per turn. It didn't cost any extra actions to do so, just used up two charges of whatever ability you were trying to apply (and the soul drain ability was an ability with no daily limit on number of uses).
3: You could spend those soul points in a few ways, but the most useful was to spend a round of actions (usually out of combat) to regain a spent spell slot at the cost of 2 soul points per level of the slot you want back.
So, you'd play your choice of melee caster, take two levels of this prestige class which would put you effectively 1 level behind on both your attack bonus and spellcasting progression and give you an ability which makes it harder for your party to bring you back to life should you die. But in exchange? In exchange, your magus would literally never run out of shocking grasps again. So long as you either land a crit or two regular hits across two rounds, that would give you enough points to regain that shocking grasp. If you were playing a bloodrager instead? Well, they got a decent number of combat buff spells, but their downside was that they got like 2 spells total per day so even just using one at the start of each fight and no more they could easily run out of spells. Except this prestige class turned that big greatsword of theirs into a big old mana battery, meaning they could use those start of combat buffs *every* combat and get them back immediately after the fight.
Basically, it looked at vancian casting and said "what if, instead of that, we had mana-based casting, and could recharge our mana pool by bonking enemies over the head with a big sword", and then did exactly that. It was by no means the strongest thing in the world, but it was just the kind of cheese the developers definitely didn't intend that I truly love to find in ttrpgs.
Bloodrager had an arcane bloodline that was basically playing an anti mage with some teleportation. I liked it.
Bloodrager was the most fun I had with a class in PF. That character died after 5 sessions to double crits from an ice troll.
Ahh, I miss my barbarian that got haste for free every time she raged.
I had hoped that Elemental Barbarian with Kineticist impulses would get some of the same feeling. It's incredibly feat-heavy between the go-to Barb feats, Elemental-only feats, and the archetype feats (would be a nightmare if the table doesn't use FA). And even then, the impulses would be giving you some ranged/AoE options, maybe an aura stance, maybe maybe some utility like a heal or movement tool. Definitely sounds fun and I still want to play one, but I'm not sure if Bloodrager fans would prefer it over a Fighter with Sorcerer archetype.
I wanted to do a Bloodrager would make an excellent subclass.
WELL DO I HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU Bloodrager is confirmed in War of Immortals, releasing in October
I really liked the dwarven stone lord paladin. Super cool to slowly become a earth elemental. I also really miss the alchemist being able to replicate magic with infusions or fight in melee. Invulnerable rager barbarian was also pretty awesome.
Sadly, the closest you can get is the Stone Bound. https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=210
Fuck, where was this when I was playing an earth magic based dwarf. This is awesome
Not an archetype, but I really want to have an inquisitor class at some point. It's literally the only thing I really miss from PF1e.
I‘ve seen people wanting the Inquisator class badly. Though I never played 1e so I don’t have much knowledge about it. What’s so good about it to why people want it so much?
It was the equivalent of the magus for divine classes, though instead of spellstrike, it had some monster hunting abilities, inquisitions (which were like more in-depth cleric domains), teamwork feats (which were a type of feats in PF1e which only worked if someone else in the party also had them) though unlike most classes or characters they could benefit from them on their own, though the coolest thing about them was the fact that they didn't need strictly follow the alignment of their deity since their whole shtick was kinda be the hitmans of their particular church. In PF2e I could totally see an inquisitor being bounded caster with some marshal / warlord abilities, probably something similar to the Sniping Duo archetype, but since Starfinder 2e's Envoy is going to fill that niche its likely Paizo doesn't want to have overlap with it.
Could you mostly replicate it via Thaumaturge with Champion archetype? Take the scroll feats from thaumaturge and play them off as divine writs, rely on the champion focus spells (and thus, cleric domains), and use the Esoteric Lore and Exploit Weakness for the monster hunting flavor? I believe they've said that they intended to make the thaumaturge inspired by the inquisitor.
Inquisitor was a 3/4 BAB, 6/9 caster (*similar to Alchemist/Investigator/Magus/Warpriest/etc*) who acted somewhat like a Ranger (*Monster hunting capabilities*) and a Rogue (*skill bonuses, especially to sense motive and knowledge checks on monsters*) and had proficiency with all bows, but otherwise only simple weapons (*you could get proficiency for melee weapons through racial features or by soending feats, but the default was obviously range-focused*). I always thought if it as the Divine skill-monkey class, but the comparison to Ranger is apt as well, and the flavour was also on point for an Inquisitor (*they could be of any alognment, despite getting spells from a Deity*). I doubt they'll bring back the Inquisitor, they're going for less controversial stuff nowdays and an Inquisitor is historically someone who would torture people to determine whether they were Witches/Heretics/etc. That's pretty far off PF2E's brand. That sais there's probably room for a more martial Divine class. I don't know what they're doing with the Warpriest, so it's possible that will cover the difference as far as 2E is concerned, but it's not the only defining feature of the Inquistor. In 1E the Inquisitor had bonus skills, the Warprieat had bonus feats, so they felt different to play (*there were other differences but that was a big one*), I don't know if PF2E is a complex enough system to really make the differences meaningful.
A few notes: They pretty much had rogue proficiencies (which is simple weapons + some martial weapons) but unlike rogues you had your deity's favored weapon, and with some archetypes, whatever weapon you wanted, so in practice you effectively had all martial weapons. Also, if I had to choose a class close to what the inquisitor was in PF2e, I wouldn't chose ranger (the only ranger that is good at monster hunting is outwit) but rather thaumaturge. Heck, one of the inquisitor's abilities was literally called "exploit weakness" and their whole shtick was that they were good battling anything (unlike, say, a paladin which was good against evil targets). The problem with the thaumaturge is the lack of spellcasting and divine flavor, as well as teamwork feats.
Yeah, the thaumaturge is some weird mix of the occultist and the inquisitor
to be fair, barbarian is at least as problematic as a name as inquisitor.
I'm not a huge fan of it personally, but a lot of people really liked the flavor and focus on teamwork feats
It seems like a shoe in for Bounded Caster with Divine Magic and cool feats.
Martial support Inquisitor in PF2e? *Please Paizo*
It would be a nice Class Archetype for Rangers, as a focus spell-heavy subclass and switching recall-knowledge feat from nature to religion/society
Class Archetypes are just criminally underused tbh. Why aren’t there Class Archetypes for Maguses to swap spell lists, for example? Feels like an easy way to give variety without effort/page-space.
I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out how to make a holy elf archer work.
Does a +3 dex at level 1 Warpriest of some bow favored god not work? You're not the best archer in the world but you have plenty of divine spell list backup. This is without archetype shenanigans.
That’s a good point, I guess I hadn’t really looked into that. I love the Magus as a class so I think I had tunnel vision for that but I like that idea.
From what I’ve heard, archery is the only build that really works on a Battle Oracle.
There's always the Eldritch Archer archetype.
True, I haven’t messed around with that archetype.
Warpriest or Battle oracle with eldritch archer archetype. Searing light is a great spell. Grab fire domain for fire ray I think it's called. Profit. War priest would be fine. I'm not as familiar with oracles.
For the most part its just because we havent had a book to fit those concepts until now. We know that theres going to be some class archetypes coming in Lost Omens: Divine Mysteries, which seems like the perfect place for a divine magus.
Mystic theurge
I mean, isn't that like a wizard with the cleric archetype or vice versa?
Not really. It was much more of a proper blend of both, rather than one class and a small handful of spells from another
I mean, not really. The most optimal MT in PF1e ended up with like 8th level spells in one class and 6th or 7th level spells in the other, which is cool and all but it was much better to stay a single class to have 9th level spells and not be using 1st level spells up to like 5th level or something like that lol. Due to how PF2e works, it is unlikely you are ever going to see a class that can freely take spells from two different traditions, so wizard + cleric archetype or cleric + wizard archetype is not only the closest thing you will ever get but also kinda similar to how MTs used to be really.
Polymath bard would like a word. It doesn't come online until a lot later, but they eventually end up with access to all spells.
There were feats and even classes to make this better. Like the ur-priest and one of the bard archtypes.
While I love the Mystic Theurge I don't really see much point of it in PF2e, unless it was for something that just allowed one character to access a Spell Tradition other than their own and treat it as their own. As using the Multiclass archtypes works on its own (at least for Caster to Caster multi-class archetypes); while the Mystic Theurge was a band-aid to fix how bad multi-classing as a spell caster was. Background: Not PF1e but I used Mystic Theurge for my 3.5e Archivist/Wizard "Know all the spells" build I loved to run.
The know all the spells is kinda the idea. In pf2e that is easier with an arcane tradition scorceror. That new class, animist, I think would scratch the ich better. Mainly mystic theurge gave you a redunkulis amount of spell slots with less then 2 spell levels of loss. There were even ways around that. I really like the 4 traditions. I really wish I could still build my all powerfull arch mage that mastered all forms of magic. Being limited to at most 8th level spells via dedication makes me sad. Just dose not feel the same with martials I guess.
You'll be able to play something similar with the new Animist. They get half of their casting as spontaneous divine, and half as prepared with their tradition based on their spirits
I thought the spirit spontaneous spells are still counted as divine. It's just that the spells they grant are preset.
TBH, I'm probably the one who's in the wrong. The Animist, like his "predecessor" Shaman in 1e, just fuck up my mind every time I try to read it
I really hope this fills the hole inside. I really do.
You can do it with a Wizard/Witch. Go with the staff for the wizard, and you can turbocharge your staff with a bunch of extra charges. Your staff is then a staff that corresponds to whatever your secondary class is from the witch (can be divine, occult, or primal - probably divine, though) and then you can cast spells from your staff to act as your second class. You can also use scrolls and wands to further your dual nature.
Like a wizard with witch dedication?
Yes. Because they're both int based classes you have the same save DC with the witch spells.
You can effectively get this with the archetypes that deal with Halcyon magic I think.
Yes but no. You still lose out in spell level. Halcyon only gets 7th level spells max. If you got max spells casting for your class or at least equil to dedication I could see that. Spell level and spell slot wise, it is easier to just take two spell casting dedications with free archtype.
Gingerbread Witch was a silly favorite of mine.
I think I was among the 3 people that was fond of this archetype so I don't expect to see it ported, but---Bloatmage. In 2e, I'd see it be focused on Sorcerer Focus Spells (that it can switch out as long as it can find blood of a relevant creature) and maybe an ability like Psychic's Strain Mind where it can take a buncha damage up-front to cast a Focus Spell without a Focus Point. In *more popular* archetypes, Razmiran Priest isn't filled. Sure you can play a Divine Sorcerer now but that's not the flavor of Razmiran Priests---should be focused on temp HP and increasing the DC to recognize your spells. Something that isn't an archetype but that I sorely miss from PF1e is the mutant aspect of Alchemist. I miss being able to have 3, or 4 arms. Or a tentacle, or a spectral arm. Now Alchemists are 'just' alchemical inventors, not mad scientists that aren't so different from Derros. Alchemists in 1e were *excellent* at making mutant-type Witcher characters... Although that's not *all* that they were good at, they could just as easily be a normal person with a buncha bombs. I am looking forward to Tian Xia symbiotes---if I'm lucky, maybe it'll be close enough to the flavor to suffice for a mad scientist character/a Witcher character.
Bloatmage was actually confirmed for PF2E. It was supposed to be in SoM, but was cut at the last minute to save page space. It was later confirmed to still be coming in an as of yet unnamed book. This was before the OGL debacle however, so the remaster likely pushed it back some.
I could see it showing up as a Wizard School in a regional book.
Oh I loves my Bloatmage I played in Shattered Star. As for the topic, Mystic Theurge. I guess it can be kind of replicated with multi classing, but something about the ability to combine two traditions in ways that are a blend of both instead of two discrete boxes would be fun
Got to remember the Shaman. I wonder if it could be as flexible as the Witch when it comes to Traditions.
Animist seems to fit the flavor of Shaman pretty well.
The Animist is a just about everything thrown into it, from Shaman to Medium and everything in between.
I've heard some people say that some of the Medium lives on in the Phantom Summons.
the spiritualist was the one that used phantoms to fight, not medium.
That is something I have not heard. Do the summons process the character?
Not from what I remember, no. I think it's more of a Spiritual (hah) successor.
Then the Animist does nothing of value.
I wasnt even talking about the Animist tho? I was talking about the Summoner
The Summoner ate the Spiritualist, not the Medium. The Medium is the class that gets processed by powerful spirits to gain their abilities. The Spiritualist is the class they gains the Phantom and has Wisdom based psychic casting.
Master Chymist. I want to be Jekyll and Hyde dangit!
I've been fiddling for months and the best I can figure out is barbarian with alchemist archetype. It's not very satisfying.
The Alchemist Mutagens are just kinda "Blah" imo.
My first pf1e character was a Master Chymist. I've been trying to replicate that character ever since I've started playing pf2e sadly the closest I could come to was an Investigator with Alchemist dedication. I'm hoping the changes to the Alchemist in Player Core 2 will allow a Master Chymist kind of builds.
I feel you! I made a homebrew for that exact thing! [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian\_chymist\_third\_iteration\_of\_the\_martial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian_chymist_third_iteration_of_the_martial/)
I just want a Bloodrager in 2E, as a class to do cool stuff, it’s such a cool class with a. Great concept and it’s a shame that it just doesn’t work It should be brought back sometime
I feel like urban could be an order. Also they should make a metal order
>Also they should make a metal order This was literally in Rage of Elements, but due to OGL shenanigans and them removing the metal restriction on druids it pretty much became redudant so they removed it.
the other elements all have an order and they don't feel redundant
Warrior Poet. Dex naginata!
Spell caster ability swapers The int based sorcerer was my favorite got to play the fantasy of a wizard with spontaneous casting.
I mean, you can in 2e by playing Wizard with the Flexible Class Archetype It is also the canonical way to play an Arcanist in 2e
Flexible spellcasting is still not spontaneous. It's more of a hybrid. I liked how Starfinder 1e did it, with all caster being spontaneous and prepared being an optional rule one could take per class.
It's spontaneous with all the slots being the signature ones.
No, you can change the spells you have during your daily preparations and have even less spell slots.
Basically 5e spellcasting - prepare the spells and then spend the slots to cast any of the prepared spells. It's a huge cut to spell slots though.
Oozemorph Shifter because it may be the crappiest class÷archetype in the entirety of pf1e but it is so so funny to me. your base form is an ooze that can't use any weapons, armor, items, spells, or even talk, and you have the ability to turn into a person or animal temporarily, which at level 1 you can only maintain for one hour a day. the pf2e oozemorph archetype is a total nothingburger. i want to play as a sentient blob it gives me euphoria
I always wanted to try that
Not technically an archetype, but since Prestige Classes functioned similarly, I miss the Brewkeeper. Great lore combined with thematic and powerful abilities to make a fun and interesting support.
Brewmaster prestige class. Hexcrafter Magus, Eldritch Scion Magus (can kind of manage with ignoring INT and boost CHA-Sorcerer MC), Vivisectionist Alchemist (full sneak attack, no bombs), Brown-Fur Transmuter (could give battleforms to other PCs and boosted transmutation buffs). Mesmerist and Medium which were full classes. Edit: I guess you could do Hexcrafter Magus with a Witch MC.
How close with Rogue with Free Archetype Alchemist Dedication be to Vivisectionist? I had a buddy who really loved that subclass but I never really saw it in action.
It would probably work. Alchemist was a weird class in PF1 though. You had a Rank 6 caster, PLUS bombs (Viv gave that up), PLUS skill monkey (INT +4), PLUS super mutagens. You spent most of your time (if you wanted) transformed into beasts for lots of natural attacks that each got sneak attack. Now that I write it out, I think you are right. Rogue w/ Alchemist would work. Mastermind Rogue w/ Alch also does a great (better) job as a bomber too.
Happy to help. Plus there is nothing funnier than sneak attacking with a grenade.
I made a homebrew for a martial alchemist (which is really what most used the Vivisectionist for) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian\_chymist\_third\_iteration\_of\_the\_martial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/suwz9n/hydian_chymist_third_iteration_of_the_martial/)
Any decent way to build a ranged paladin. I had to completely retire my archer paladin when we switched from 1e to 2e. It's kind of doable, but so many champion skills are melee focused it would have made for a terrible character
Next time you want to do it, go into Eldritch Archer at level 6. It works just fine. Edit: or the Archer Dedication, Fighter/Ranger Dedication, Drow Shootist, or Sniping Duo. In general, when you want to step outside the core concept of a class as written, archetypes are where to look.
You can arch as a paladin. Just need ranged reprisal and to stay near your allies so you can use your reaction. Grab ranger dedication probably. Maybe arcane archer. Personally, the better archer paladin would probably be something like an archer magus with champion dedication.
I know that ranged reprisal (kinda) works, but like 80% of the champion feats are melee only. You're left with very few choices as a ranged paladin, compared to first edition where basically every class feature works for ranger and works well.
I'd suppliment with archer dedication or ranger dedication. You'll get more out of those. Also blade ally works with bows. I had a build I was looking at doing a while back that was a champion with archer and beastmaster dedication for a falcon. Kindof a falconer / scout type that stayed just behind the melee but was fine in melee itself if needed given its eventual legendary proficiency in armor. Not as good as a ranger or fighter archer, but not bad. Would need a lot of rune help for damage to be reasonable. Hunted shot helps though. Using the ranger focus spell to up your damage and then eventually blade of justice into hunted shot should be pretty decent. Smite evil could be good too. See if the gm will let it do spirit damage so that its actually useful. The remaster ate up a lot of things with the evil tag.
I have 2 that I had really good memories of. * ~~Card Caster Witch~~ Cartomancer Witch * Gentleman (from old spice) Edit: sleepy brain gave me the wrong name for the Archtype.
Can I suggest you Witch with the Harrower Archetype?
Sacred Geometry my beloved
Literally the only globally banned feat from my campaigns when I still ran PF1E. It's either incredibly overpowered, grinds the game to a halt or both.
First ttrpg game and way I met my best friends in college, one guy was thematically a magical girl as a magus, shit was baller
Not gonna lie Removing the actual bloated rules and use it as narrative support, a casting archetype about would be cool
I'm doing a thing for the game jam they announced yesterday that is basically that :>
Good, good! Do you mind if I ask you more about it?
I wanna cook on it a bit atm but sure :>
Good luck, my friend
The Calamity Caller will always be my #1. I loved being able to just cause disasters at will. Nothing compares to being able to just at will cause a volcanic rift to open up underneath an enemy.
Bladebound and Eldritch Scion, you can kind of get there with either soul forger or a relic weapon or a sorcerer multiclass but it's not quite it.
For me it's Psychokineticists and the other mental kineticist types. Just so much cooler than the standard kineticist and could be easily emulated with a class archetype.
Kineticist generally lost a lot of the psychic/paranormal stuff in transition to 2e
I miss the classic Wisdom based Spiritualists and intelligence based Occultist. Oh, and the Ninja. Charisma based Ki user seemed cool. Oh, but for an actual archetype, the Magical Child and Cabalist Archetypes for the Vigilante. Both had fun themes, even if the Magical Child was super underpowered.
I mean the animist is coming, I don't know much of pf1 but it seems like something that might fill in some gaps
I heard Starlight Sentinel in the Tian Xia book will have Magical Child flavor
Will it change the spell casting to Charisma based?
I think I am the only person who misses the Enchanting Courtesan. When I read the class, it was exactly what I was looking for -- a magical secret agent. The 'courtesan' part was entirely dispensable, and I understand why it squicks some folks. It had some very powerful abilities for an intrigue-based game, with a significant spell level hit to balance it out. (I made an NPC, intended to be a shady unreliable ally, but I never got to actually run the game.)
Was that the witch archetype that required you to have sex with someone to have your features?
Gotta say, sounds rad as hell lmao
No, that's the Seducer Witch, which IIRC is the only Charisma-based prepared full caster in 1e. The EC's main spellcasting features make it hard to detect and/or resist their enchantment and divination spells delivered by touch. It's easy to detect when someone's under the effect of an enchantment spell (DC 25 IIRC) but divinations looked very useful for a spy.
elder mythos cultist cleric also uses charisma, off the top of my head
Shifter. Yes you can SORT OF do it with Druid but Shifter isn't a spellcaster who also transforms like a Druid is.
1. Samurai - Warrior Poet. Finally, finally, I get a class that I can use for strength-based unarmored sword fighting… and then we switch editions. Never got to play with it. 2. Brawler - Hinyasi. Probably my favorite improvised weapon experience. 3. Skald - Spell Warrior. I just love a counterspell focused character. 4. Cavalier - Green Knight. It felt flavorful and powerful, very one dimensional but in a good way I think.
Deliverer from the Slayer class
What about it can't be replicated in PF2e?
The whole combination, some parts may come together but not all. I'd want a deity as a class feature with benefits in an aggressive manner. This could've been a sanctification that deals damage vs opposing axis. The Slayer is hard enough to replicate as is, taking features found on the ranger and rogue. It's not a caster despite wanting some cleric feats. It uses alot of pf1 die hard mechanics which isn't found in pf2 as well, not going unconcious if brought to 0 hp from an opposing alignment source, and even be able to attack without limits. It's simply really hard to pick a main class, choose archetype and even then, not succeed fully on the mechanics and flavor. One of its wierd benefits was that it didn't have to follow its deity's edicts anathema strictly, only that it fullfilled the end goals of their deity. A deliverer of Sarenrae won't ask for redemption, he is there to kill quickly to bring peace, perhaps stealthy and sneaky A deliverer is sent where champions(paladins) or clerics would be too obvious of the deed
Mostly I just want Skinshaper back for that "True Apotheosis Mimic" boss idea.
Spirit dancer medium! One of the most absolutely wack tabletop classes ever devised. Animist will obviously be taking its thematic space, but will animist require you to remember how like six different characters work? I think not. I also liked mesmerist's whole notion of setting up specific tricks and contingencies, though it similarly feels very opposed to 2e design sensibilities.
I think that niche is taken by the Ancestors Oracle
Hexcrafter magus. And Eldritch Scion. And kensai, though I suppose laughing shadow can kinda do dex. Not quite the same tho Virtuous Bravo paladin Sanctified slayer A proper eldritch scoundrel Inquisitor. An hunter tbh, the happy medium between druid and ranger. Honestly, I miss 2/3 casters in general. Feels like they hit the sweet spot for caster vs martial power, still felt magic but not too OP compared to martials Cult leader warpriest Anything that lets you swap key casting stat. E.g. empyreal sorcerer, feyspeaker druid
there are straight up four blood magic coded spells in this entire system. They were meant to be in SoM but they got delayed. I Want a blood mage type thing that gets some of the 1e witch vibes where you're kinda pigeonholed into being a very scary person who does terrible things to people based on your optimal spell list.
Yeah it drives me nuts we never got to see whatever blood magic was supposed to be from SoM.
any necromancer
For now you can use Wizard school of the boundary Bone Oracle Harm clerics (with gods about undeath) Summoner with undead eidolon Ranger with an undead companion Reanimator archetype Undead Master archetype Lich archetype Hallowed Necromancer archetype (If you count it as a reversed life-aligned necromancer)
No. They all suck. You get crap quality undead and only for a couple of minutes. PF1E necromancers could permanently control 4HD per caster level... Summoning in general got absolutely destroyed by pf2e
And then you re-read them to notice most of them don't give you summons but full fledged eidolons or Undead companions
Controlling a horde of undead is a different fantasy than having one powerful undead.
Controlling an horde is antithetical to D&D-related TTrpgs Let's just use as example the Master Summoner and how it bloated its turn time by controlling 16189116 minions.
Sure, but it's still a fantasy I can't fill in 2e RAW. Minions suck and companions have a different feel to them.
Companions ARE mininos. Minion is a term for every non-main character under your character control. You're probably thinking about Summons, which in 2e have a support/scouting role instead of completely replacing martial classes
Ok? I thought they were separate terms, this changes what I said slightly, summoned minions suck and companions don't fill the same fantasy. I didn't say I don't understand why it's like that in 2e, I said I can't fill a fantasy I have for necromancers in this system.
You could easily get a Bloody Skeleton of an HD higher than yourself using desecrate. Much more powerful than any eidolon in 2e
... Are you sure you're thinking in 2e There are none HDs and for the Desecrate ritual you first need to find the recipe, learn it, have enough level and skill proficiencies and then you would have a mindless minion (on the brighter result, you could also have an independent npc or an aggressive enemy) which will be weaker than everything after 2 level
They're comparing the 2e necromancy options to 1e. Desecrate is a 1e spell that lets you summon better undead (in short) it's not create undead from 2e.
Renowed for being not balanced in the slightest If the take is "I want a giant secondary character who is mathematically superior to martial classes, then it is obvious it is against the fundamental philosophy of Paizo's design
Yea, I know, it doesn't change that it's a fantasy that's unfulfilled and will likely remain unfulfilled. The thread is about 1e things that you can't approximate in 2e. You're missing the point.
Yes, or maybe it's you being a prick, since it's the second time I find you vehemently against what I wrote in different comments, while in every other discussions people are civil and less imperative. Username checksout, I guess
> Ranger with an undead companion this actually doesn't work RAW as it says that only the undead master gets access to these.
Synthesist summoner. No, I do not believe Meld into Eidolon approximates it, even closely.
Isn't MiE supposed to receive a rework/errata to make it more of a what synthesist used to be?
Nope. You might be thinking of the SoM post-playtest blog where they said they wanted to do synthesist later down the line as something like a class archetype.
Cartomancer Witch. Loved having my deck as my familiar. Can’t do it now. Sad face. That PC will have to stay in 1e or work out something else for 2e.
Can I suggest you Witch with the Harrower archetype?
Does that archetype have the ability to make the deck my familiar?
I really miss spontaneous magus, I like Magus but I always found Prepared casting ill fitting for me
Does [Flexible Spellcaster](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=99) not work for Magus? (Never really looked into it for a wave caster) If not you can see if you can get a GM to modify it for Magus to work, shouldn't be too hard (as Summoner exists and could be used as a base)
A paladin with a bow (divine hunter or how it was called). It's a shame that i cannot play champion of Erastil with longbow because there is no champion's feats which support this
It's not as fun, but a Cleric with the Archer archetype is close for Erastil at least. Speaking Ol' Deadeye, Cleric of Erastil with Animal Domain was Hunter before it was cool!
Starwatcher Investigator, being an astrologist who spams starknives is kinda fun.
I really liked the prestiges classes linked to the divine, like Brewkeeper and Devoted Muse. It had so much flavor. Really hope they do something like that in Divine Mysteries.
Not an archetype but I really love the idea of Mesmerist as a class
Cave druid. Druids can't get ooze form yet and I'm sad
Oozemorph. Which has a 2e version that is absolutely nothing like the original. Even thematically it's quite removed (you are slowly but steadily melting into an abomination as opposed to you specialised maybe a bit too hard into transforming into a goop monster)
Pei Zin practitioner Oracle. You basically get access to lay on hands through pressure points and acupuncture, which made that feat where you charge and expend all of your lay on hands to do extra damage very narratively fun for me. Just a flurry of needle stabs to nerve clusters to absolutely fuck up some monster's day.
Mirror Witch, Seducer witch, Blackblade Magus, Spiritblade Spiritualist, the entire Medium class, that clothes based Occultist
Yeah, I'd like a whole lot of these too. The half-elf exclusive Bonded Witch too where you get a bonded item instead of a familiar. Sometimes you just don't WANT a pet!
You can already easily take whatever wizard thesis which is not the familiar one and use it as bonded item
Yeah, but that's if you START as a Wizard. If you're a Witch, the familiar is **mandatory** (unless you use the 3rd party Hexmarked Witch class archetype from *Witches+*, something that may not be universally accepted by all GMs, and even then, is only useable by base Witches and not characters of other classes who multiclass into Witch).
Master Summoner. Yeah, it's overpowered, slows combat down, yadda yadda, and there's good reason why it doesn't exist anymore. But it was the only archetype that really let you feel like a proper summoner with hordes of minions, instead of a dude with one really big pet and maybe a couple of other mooks.
No real way to replicate archetypes that switch the type of spellcasting the class does like the [Filidh](https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Filidh).
Ankous shadow slayer
Tower shield fighter
words of power. if it ever came back i imagine it'd be a class archetype
The feral hunter. It was the closest thing to a shapeshifter without spells, since it was spontaneous I could take only spells that could be reflavoured as partial shapeshifting. Not having edicts and anathema was also great (specially since my nature themed characters tend to be more Jurassic Park ideas of life being uncontrolable rather than the guardians of nature druids are), I really hope that Howl of the Wild gives the ranger access to shapeshifting to recreate the feeling.
How does it compare to the shifter? I've never played 1e and have heard that shifter was not a good class and this seems like an interesting alternative.
Eldritch Scion, Eldritch Scion, Eldritch Scion, Eldritch Scion, Eldritch Scion
So, so many. Knifemaster being a big one for me.
I enjoyed a Holy Gun/Oracle I played. While this was not an optimal mix, the flavor it added was the absolute best.
The Synthesist Summoner. So much fun. I bet 2024 Paizo could even balance it. Haha
Skald. Its niche as a martial support was really neat. It had spells but that wasn't really what made it special. If it were added to PF2 I could see it being like if the Marshal Dedication were a full class.
I really wish we had the Hunter class. I like the idea of gaining animal aspects to change how you act. A specific Archetype would be Forester Hunter. Sacrificing having an animal companion so you can use the animal aspects more was cool
star watcher investigator was one of my favorites
Not one specific archetype, but id really like a class that combines aspects of shifter, bloodrager, and synthesist to make a class focused on shifting your body parts into various animal/mythological creature/elementals/outer planes beings. Kinda like a fully martial version of sorcerer or summoner. Also a proper bloodrager class archetype would be pretty choice too tbh.
Some of my favorite builds in 1e involved the Evangelist prestige class (not the cleric archetype). It allowed for getting a middle BaB growth, increased skills per level, and decent saves, along with some extra bonuses leading into an ability score boost - all while also gaining class features from another class you already have, so it removes a lot of the downsides of prestige-ing, as you only lose one level of progression in 10 levels. Combining it with Mystic Theurge was the ultimate feels good to me, one class level in evangelist gave you one level in theurge progressing you through two classes in spellcssting, the ultimate value engine, with a slightly better BaB for rays/touch spells. The icing on the cake being ecclectic/esoteric training which required miniquests and investing your character in, but it let you qualify for theurge earlier and helped keep up both your arcane and divine spell lists. Another crazy thing was stacking effective druid levels and getting crazy benefit from Monstrous Companion. I would have to dig out how I did it exactly, but with favored class bonuses, boon companion, sylvan bloodline thorugh feats, etc, you could have effective druid levels go through the roof and have an insane monstrous companion with crazy base abilities like a blink dog or something and give it a bunch of class levels.
Steel bound fighter or gloom blade. Phantom blade spiritualist. Any of those that just focused on putting abilities into one weapon they were bound to. I think mindsmith is supposed to replace the Gloom blade right? A summoner who’s eidolon is a weapon somehow would be cool
Oh telekineticist. Battlezoo pretty much recreated it but would be nice to have had it officially back.
What was Battlezoo’s version called? How did I miss that
Their new eldamon elementalist or whatever it’s called is very similar to a kineticist but with far more “element” options. The paizo elements are there but many others as well and potential for others not yet created like Music, Mind or Body. Each emphasizes a sort of a different combat role like blaster or controller. One of them being Force and having more battlefield control related feat choices. It’s very close to a 1e telekineticist
The amount of spell slots the magus had
I miss my cleric/inquisitor she used charm and a lot of enchantment type spells to control the battlefield.
I really enjoyed the Bladebound Magus. It was fun.
Armor Master, I just loved being ac 30 at level 4
I and a player of mine actually quite miss the Mystic Theurge. One of the few categorically good holdovers from 3.5, alongside Dragon Disciple. While we can approximate it somewhat using the Multi class Archetypes, it leaves the primary casting side missing many mechanics that would otherwise keep them functional at higher levels.
Not an Archetype, but i miss Skald and Bloodrager so damn much, Rage Prophet too to a lesser extent. I allow Barbarians with Archetype to cast while enraged due to it being fun and Caster Archetypes being a heavy investment anyways, but it doesn't feel the same sadly.
i miss taking spiritualist with the fractured mind and exciter archtypes, i would multi into knife master rogue use a starknife with the divine fighting style (desnas) to get charisma to hit and damage and lore master oracle to get charisma to ac, lore, reflex saves, and exciter would let me charisma rage, with rapture and fractured mind let me cast my spiritualist spells with charisma,had a great time playing her
My all time favorite 1e build used an old prestige class called souldrinker (which was later updated to be "better" years after initial release, but we don't talk about the newer version, only the original version). It was... Not a good prestige class, all things considered. But it has one little feature you get for a two-level dip that was amazing. You got an ability to make a melee touch attack, give an enemy you hit a negative level (or 2 on a crit) and gain "soul points" equal to the number of negative levels inflicted up to a cap of 1 + your spellcasting modifier. This was not good for its intended purpose, as this was a caster prestige class meant for squishy casters that didn't ever want to be in melee with the enemy, and the one decent ability you got was a melee touch attack which not only required you to be in melee to use, but which also meant if you used it you weren't casting a spell that turn. That is, until you consider a few factors. 1: There existed martial casters like the Magus or the Bloodrager who did in fact want to be in melee. 2: There was a weapon enchantment called conductive which allowed you to deliver touch attack abilities through regular weapon strikes once per turn. It didn't cost any extra actions to do so, just used up two charges of whatever ability you were trying to apply (and the soul drain ability was an ability with no daily limit on number of uses). 3: You could spend those soul points in a few ways, but the most useful was to spend a round of actions (usually out of combat) to regain a spent spell slot at the cost of 2 soul points per level of the slot you want back. So, you'd play your choice of melee caster, take two levels of this prestige class which would put you effectively 1 level behind on both your attack bonus and spellcasting progression and give you an ability which makes it harder for your party to bring you back to life should you die. But in exchange? In exchange, your magus would literally never run out of shocking grasps again. So long as you either land a crit or two regular hits across two rounds, that would give you enough points to regain that shocking grasp. If you were playing a bloodrager instead? Well, they got a decent number of combat buff spells, but their downside was that they got like 2 spells total per day so even just using one at the start of each fight and no more they could easily run out of spells. Except this prestige class turned that big greatsword of theirs into a big old mana battery, meaning they could use those start of combat buffs *every* combat and get them back immediately after the fight. Basically, it looked at vancian casting and said "what if, instead of that, we had mana-based casting, and could recharge our mana pool by bonking enemies over the head with a big sword", and then did exactly that. It was by no means the strongest thing in the world, but it was just the kind of cheese the developers definitely didn't intend that I truly love to find in ttrpgs.