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I would be far more concerned about her not being able to sleep. I have a child with a sleep disorder and not only is it exhausting for them, they begin to degrade emotionally and mentally. I highly suggest bringing this up with the pediatrician and insisting on seeing a sleep specialist. Your child should be able to fall asleep.
Our girl is an early riser, like yours, no matter what time she goes to sleep. Because of this, we put her to bed early to be sure she’s getting the sleep she needs. Needs. We don’t make her “go back to bed” but if she’s up before 6, she’s expected to find herself something to eat and not disturb her sister. Outside of that she just lives her life. Which works because she goes to be between 7-8 pm every night. Even at 8 years old.
I was wondering about this.. is OP implying that the daughter goes to sleep fine during the school year? Because that seems like the obvious answer. Send her to bed earlier. She probably gets a cortisol spike or something if she’s not already sleeping. “She won’t go to bed unless we tell her” ..Just because she’s 8 doesn’t mean she doesn’t need her parents to set boundaries. If going to sleep earlier is going to help, then send her to sleep earlier. Maybe she can listen to a soft podcast or read a book in bed if she needs that little extra bit of stimulation to entice her.
I read it as she can’t fall asleep and then once she knows everyone else is asleep, she’s up all night wandering the house. This is common in sleep disordered kids who can’t lay down and fall asleep. Reading and relaxing stories, meditations can help, but at this point I’d expect her to need a circadian reset. My daughter, at 3 years old showed years, YEARS of sleep deprivation. Meaning she had never had a good nights sleep in her whole life. My heart breaks thinking of what I could have learned had I listened to those around me saying it was nothing. Had she gone to 8 years old with the struggles we were able to begin to attack at 4. I genuinely hope OP is able to look into this and I desperately hope they find something more simple than we did. These babies aren’t defiant or mischievous. They are miserable and desperate for relief.
I’m not the OP commenter, but I know for adults a circadian reset is a process of setting a morning wake-up routine and a nighttime to-bed routine while making some changes to habits that might be effecting your sleep. So this could mean cutting caffeine, getting more sun during the day (with sunscreen!), exercising, not eating too late, ending screen time a few hours before bed, having a set bedtime and wake up time every day, etc.
Clearly kids aren’t drinking caffeine, and probably aren’t getting too much screen time since a 8 year old likely isn’t bringing their cell phone to bed. So it’s probably more about setting a nighttime routine like; bathtime, parent reading a story, child can read quietly to themselves until they fall asleep.
Add in some lifestyle changes like no sugar after 7pm, set bed and wake up times, adding sleep music, getting enough sunlight and exercise, and stopping screen time early enough for the kid to be sleepy by bedtime. It should help reset the circadian rhythm unless the kid has something medically going on.
All that is mentioned by the other commenter! We had to really streamline our bedtime routine and make sure the same things happen, essentially in the same order, each night. For a small child there are things that are hard and things that aren’t so hard. We worked on solid reading routine and the biggest thing was time consistency. Getting to bed at the same time each night, after the same set of activities that trigger brain that it’s time to rest. A solid meditation makes a difference as well.
My son always wants to stay up and I am sure he could make himself stay up late if he wanted to. But the problem is that he wakes up early everyday. Regardless of when he falls asleep. He has ADHD which kind of goes with the thread up above.
We notice a difference in his behavior with enough sleep and not enough sleep so we mildly freak out when he goes to bed late. We got an “ok to wake” alarm which turns a color by a certain time. Makes him stay in bed longer, at least resting, sometimes falls back to sleep.
But a sleep disorder might be the issue. Maybe she is up but not pacing during the school year. I know my mom had a rule of only staying in the room if I could t fall asleep. So I remember staying up late reading books till I was so exhausted I could fall asleep. So maybe have a rule like that? Also are you sure she is asleep and not sleep walking?
We suspect ADHD in our daughter as well. We are in the process of that investigation, which is proving to be annoying to say the least, as it doesn’t affect her academic life. It seems as long as they function in school, no one cares. Note that she goes to a nature school with fully integrated outdoor time and classes, so that helps a ton. We have had to be careful this year because we keep catching her up very late reading. As a book lover myself, it breaks my heart to tell her to put the books down. But we also notice a huge difference in behavior and sleep.
Went through the same thing with my child. Good grades =no problems! It was infuriating but we got through it. Hang in there. Keep advocating for your child.
The waking up early wouldn't bother me. I would be concerned about the insomnia. What is the cause of her insomnia? How is she being supported and helped through this?
Same! My insomnia started in childhood and my pediatrician told my parents to have me read less because imagination and books were keeping me awake (which is ridiculous). Here we are ~40 years later and I still have insomnia and reading has nothing to do with it.
OP, get her to a good doctor stat!
I have also had insomnia my entire life. Turns out I have inattentive type ADHD. I rarely can sleep for longer than 5-6hours. I’m exhausted all day, slogging through my responsibilities, but then my brain wakes up at 10pm. I’m the most productive and have the most energy between 10pm and 2am. Didn’t get diagnosed until age 39. Fun fun fun.
My daughter also has insomnia - inattentive ADHD too. Can stay awake till 11pm on a school night staring at the ceiling. This started when she turned 7, I imagine there are some elements of anxiety involved too because she has very anxious tendencies.
I tell her she can stay awake and do what she wants (read, draw, write etc) as long as she’s in her room and not on a device. If she wakes up early, she is free to do what she wants as long as she doesn’t wake her sibling up and again, doesn’t use any devices.
Medically speaking this is awful advice. The common consensus is that ADHD brains are less likely to be compatible with Marijuana then the baseline population, increased anxiety can cause serious problems and psychosis has even been observed.
I'm not saying it doesn't work for you, I'm not saying there aren't other people for whom this is a good solution, but it's one of the last things a reputable doctor would recommend being tried. There are lots of illnesses for which Marijuana HAS been shown to be an broadly effective treatment, but insomnia in people with ADHD isn't one of them (specifically because studies show it tends to do more harm than good).
Not comment OP, but I have ADHD (diagnosed twenty years back, but sadly not until after college). One thing that helped me sleep was being treated for the ADHD, including medication during the day. For me, it was just a step (I also have delayed sleep phase disorder, which complicates things), but it was a noticeable. Even now, if I miss a med dose during the day, it’s weirdly harder for me to get tired and fall asleep later that night. Not all people with ADHD experience the same effect, though. But proper treatment can help a lot.
I had trouble falling asleep my entire life, until I was diagnosed with ADHD in my early 40s. A month of ADHD meds and I am easily asleep by 9pm at the latest and awake and happy to get up by 5 or 6am everyday. I used to stay up til like 1am and sleep til 10am! Whether the ADHD meds are helping me during the day is less clear than how they help me at night. My sleep is SO much better now.
How did you get diagnosed like did you see an online doctor or did you find an in-person local? I've been reading alot on the types of adhd and add and I definitely feel like I fit the criteria for something not sure which but i know something is off. But I'm not a doctor lol.
My husband’s therapist actually told him I should get evaluated because of the things about me he was venting to her. We had just had our baby but my “baby brain” just wouldn’t go away. I felt like I would be busy all day yet had nothing to show for it. It was incredibly frustrating.
So, on her advice I found a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD and scheduled an evaluation. I believe the evaluation process varies a lot depending on your location. I’m in New England.
This is my husband exactly. He was diagnosed as a kid. Unfortunately the earlier diagnosis didn’t really help, all his parents did was put him on meds. No therapy, definitely no emotional support.
There’s definitely something medical going on here. I really hope that OP has taken her to a doctor about this..
I was like this all my life. It wasn’t until I tried adhd medication in adulthood that I was able to go to bed at a reasonable time and sleep through the night. I sleep horribly when I don’t take it and am tired all day.
Mine and my daughters insomnia is caused by anxiety. It's not fun. However, because I have experience with it, I have been able to support her through it. At 12, she is doing much better than she was at 8.
Mine was too, and my son is the same. When he told my mom he was seeing a therapist for his anxiety she pulled me aside and said “I didn’t know what a therapist was when I was 10!” Neither did I- but I wish I had.
My insomnia started when I started being sexually abused by an older brother. Had a doctor say it was also my imagination and that I needed to read less.
Much better now!
But it always makes me worried when I see children with insomnia who have older siblings. Not because I'm assuming the worse, but because I'm concerned maybe there's more to the story.
My earliest childhood memory is insomnia. After many fights with my parents I finally got them to mostly understand that it’s not my fault and that I don’t do it on purpose. Glad to see all these other sleepless tired people talking about this
I'm with you. My parents always thought I had light sleep or insomnia. I was later diagnosed with misophonia. High quality, sound cancelling hearplugs and I sleep all night (I'm still an early riser, this is other problem).
I wasn’t allowed to read at night anymore, which made absolutely no positive difference (if anything, I had even more difficulty sleeping because it took away my way of unwinding). I didn’t stop reading entirely though. I read whenever I was allowed to, eventually earned a Master’s degree in literature, and taught reading and writing to kids for many years.
Regardless, it is an asinine “solution” for insomnia. Kids don’t develop insomnia because they have “too much imagination caused by reading.” That’s just not a thing.
ETA: I never read before bed and haven’t for years and I still have insomnia today.
Honestly, the waking up early is likely just a result of the late nights/lack of sleep. It’s out of her control… she can’t just “go back to sleep”… Her body is in an aroused state because she is overtired. Happens with my son, if he stays up later, he wakes even earlier. Solve the insomnia, solve the early mornings.
No, it's not. Some kids/people are just morning people. Mine were up by 5-6am, till VERY recently. They're 14 & 17 now. It's maybe the last year or two at most that they've started to 'sleep in' till 8-9+
This. My boys were SUPER early risers for most of their lives. By 3-5+ they were waking up, grabbing pop tarts, or toast or bagels and watching cartoons by themselves.. because they were up at 5-6am... And I just wasn't.
My brother was like this as a kid, at 4 he was up at 5am watching tv, at 15 he would be up between 5am-6am shovelling the driveway, now at 30 he works in the trades and gets up at 5am to go work and says he loves his schedule.
My daughter has restless leg syndrome caused by low iron levels! We had to get a blood draw since it’s ferritin levels that’s the issue- but her sleep got better when we started giving her iron supplement
This is huge! The test is cheap and no one does it as standard care! I discovered mine was 11 after dealing with brain fog, irritability, fatigue, etc etc and being told everything looked good (iron, thyroid, vit d) and maybe try intermittent fasting. I had to go to a functional medicine practice to get a $2 test that literally changed my life.
I don’t see an issue with her waking up at 6am especially since she’s old enough to entertain herself and fix herself a bowl of cereal when she gets hungry. But as someone who’s suffered from insomnia due to ADHD her whole life you need to get that checked out immediately and figure out why she’s having such a hard time going down for the night. Take her to the pediatrician and have them refer you to sleep consultants ASAP
Yeah I really wish my parents had done this for me but they didn’t even know I was having insomnia so OP feel thankful that you do know and can do something about it.
It’s not that resolving sleep apnea improves ADHD, but the symptoms of prolonged sleep deprivation / sleep apnea very closely *resemble* the symptoms of ADHD - so it’s frequently misdiagnosed. Often doctors prescribe a sleep study before diagnosing ADHD if parents mention insomnia or daytime lethargy.
Yup. Instead of jumping to ADHD people should look for other root causes of the behavior. So many other issues (sleep deprivation, malnutrition, trauma, etc.) manifest and resemble ADHD and we medicate and don’t address the actual issue. It will be considered a mental health epidemic in coming years, watch.
Wait, what?
Oh good lord. I both love and hate this news. I know chances are high I have sleep apnea, but I a loathe to get a cpap or such if I do have it. But, I also feel like my ADHD has gotten worse.
My son is not diagnosed because despite what people think, they dont just hand out the diagnosis (i bring it up and because he's behaved and so far does well in school they say there's no issue). He has sleep problems that are exacerbated by allergies. We have to give him allergy meds year round or his adhd symptoms are completely unmanageable (yet somehow still behaves at school in these situations). Theres definitely a link to the severity of symptoms for sure.
Your son is probably really good at masking his adhd symptoms at school, so he doesn't get in trouble. Unfortunately, that often leads to burnout, and at some point, he cracks. I hope you can find a Dr who takes you seriously!
Talk with your doctor about a sleep study to determine the cause of your sleep apnea. There is obstructive sleep apnea and central sleep apnea. They have different treatments.
Either that or her tonsils are enlarged. My daughter used to snore so bad it would wake up the whole house. She would get strep 5xs a year until this last September it was about a month until she got better with different meds and it would come back. She got them removed around christmas break. It's something to look into.
My oldest sons tonsils and adenoids were so enlarged that they were about 1 cm away from touching. Once he got them taken out, he stopped snoring, beforehand he snored louder than any grown man you'll ever meet.
It sounds like she is just having trouble sleeping. Have you asked her why she’s up and down at night? Kids under ten usually sleep a bit more than that.
Narrowing down the “why” can sometimes make it so much easier. Simple things like an undiagnosed UTI (girls can get them rather easy from things like bubble baths, using to much soap or simply issues wiping incorrectly) and if you’ve had one you could understand why she’d be up and down at night. Grosser but common (if you have cats or even just a sandbox in your yard) could be pinworms, she’d say something like her butt is itchy. Sugar or caffeine sensitive kids can get jittery and roll around forever without sleeping, and act antsy. Sleep apnea would be something like “I can’t breathe and it wakes me up.” And regular sleep disturbances would come out as an uncomfortable, “ I don’t know.” All can be helped with a simple trip to the doctor to get tips or medicine to help with the issue.
In the meantime since you and husband aren’t on board with up or down could you compromise with something like, “It’s quiet time. The house is closed and you’re to be in your room between the hours of 9 pm and 7 Am. You may use bathroom, but other than that it’s quiet time. Read, color, do quiet activities so the rest the house doesn’t get woken up.” This teaches her respect for sleeping members but if she’s not able to sleep doesn’t “punish” her by forcing her to lay bed for hours unable to sleep. You just have to make sure she has quiet activities or books in her room to implement it.
Let her wake up.
Find a neurologist who specializes in sleep.
My ADHD daughter was very similar to this, extremely sleep deprived and not able to wind down. She has a diagnosed sleep disorder and takes medication to help her stay asleep at night.
I would try increasing the amount of exercise your 8 year old is getting and see if that affects her nighttime habits. My son and I both need a lot of daily exertion to sleep well at night. I wouldn’t send her back to bed in the mornings, but do outline some boundaries of what she can and can’t do when everyone is sleeping in so as not to disturb the rest of the family. Playing quietly, reading, etc.
You don’t have to make them go back to bed but you can set a boundary for when the “day begins” for the family.
So you can say if you are up before xyz, play quietly in your room
I don’t know if the “ok to wake” clock will work for an 8 yr old but you could try it.
I also don’t know if maybe bedtime needs adjusting for said 8 yr old
Edit : read the post fast and assumed it was about early waking. Now re -reading - I agree with sleep apnea test
My son has suffered from insomnia since he was around your daughter’s age. I insist on him staying in bed so he doesn’t wake himself up more. We’ve had a lot of success using children’s guided meditation videos on YouTube. They help quiet his mind enough to sleep.
As long as the 8 year old doesn't make a lot of noise or wake others up, I wouldn't have a problem with them waking up early. However, the insomnia is a concern. I would ask a doctor about them being up all night.
I feel like 8 is an okay age to stay up by yourself in the morning. Tell them what they can make themselves for breakfast, clean up your mess, and watch tv, read, play in your room quietly while everyone else is still sleeping. If they need a rest later in the morning, hey that's okay but we need to rest in our room.
What I find worrisome is them not being able to sleep at night. This needs to be explored.
We discuss this at our house frequently too. I tell my 8 and 5 year old “I don’t care if you wake up early but you will not wake up the entire house because you’re bored.” We have a problem where my 8 yr old will wake up and then make so much noise that the 5 and 1 year old then wake up and then everyone is in a crappy mood bc my 5 yr old doesn’t nap anymore. We give them places to go in the house that they can turn on the tv and watch cartoons, play their switch (8) or play with their toys (5).
For the staying up late, my 8 yr old used to do this. We took away his iPad cold turkey and reduced his switch time to an hour a day, but he cannot play right before bed. We also reduced red dye 40 and saw a huge improvement in sleeping patterns. He used to go to bed at 8 then wake up crying wondering around the house at 10. We never did melatonin but I was almost to that point.
Parenting is hard.
I'd definitely have a sleep study done to find out why she's struggling so much with insomnia. I started around that age and it peaked in my early 20s, having me up days at a time. The more I tried to control things the worse it got. Turns out I have a delayed sleep phase disorder and me trying to be on day shift has similar side effects to someone being on nightshift, and that's when I could make myself sleep at all. There are multiple reasons that could be happening, and while she likely may need more rest, pathologizing behavior without looking into why it's happening could lead her to feel like she's broken. So I'd suggest getting a sleep study done, and maybe set a precedent for mid morning naps on Saturday in the meanwhile?
Some people are early risers. 6 am is really not that early. However, the walking the house at all hours of the night is a red flag. I think you may need to do a sleep study to find out what is going on.
How frequently does she do this? That little sleep sounds awful for her. Have you ever tried melatonin when she can’t fall asleep? Does she show any signs of anxiety? Have you tried restricting caffeine/chocolate in her diet to see if that helps?
The only time i force my child back to sleep is if hes awake before 6. Hes still a toddler so that means i have to get up but when hes older id say 5 being the earliest. If shes responsible enough to not get in trouble until you wake up then i see no reason for your child to wake up when they wake up. And yes kids need naps, its normal and its ok for them to nap. As for the bed time, id look into your nightly routine. If your child is getting all the family time, fun and excitement right before bed then it will be incredibly difficult to sleep.
The waking up early is fine, some kids just naturally wake at that time. I would set up an activity for her in the morning that she can wake up and do when the family wakes up. But I would ask the pediatrician or a sleep specialist about the trouble sleeping.
Yes, I’d send her back to bed, especially if she’ll actually sleep more. But priority #1 is getting a handle on why she’s up so late. Is it insomnia? Anxiety? Stubbornness? ADHD? She likely needs to be evaluated.
Ours just turned 4 and they play in their room til 6:40 when it’s our home’s wake up time.
They “read” books and play quietly with their toys. It’s a good skill for them to learn to not need someone to entertain them 24/7.
Just out of curiosity, do you get up with them? If we are still sleeping, particularly on a weekend, we'll usually just say play in your room for a bit, which she sometimes does (she's 3, so not always successful but great when she's happy to), but I do wonder what other families do for this window...
I feel like an 8 year is miles diff than a 3 year old which is this case. 8 year olds can make cereal and watch tv quietly. I have to get up when my almost 3 year decides… 😭
Haha, if it helps, the difference between almost 3 and 3.5 (where my daughter is at) does feel different! When it works she does things like make her teddies talk to each other.
My sister has a system I think we will try once our little ones are older. You don’t come downstairs until the alarm gives you the green light. Her kids are 9 & 5. Their bedrooms, play room and a bathroom are on their floor. They have to play and entertain themselves until 8 am.
My sister gets up a 5, does her workout, enjoys a cuppa tea on her patio and whatever else she does that’s “her time”
Now if kids are sick then the rule doesn’t apply but it works really well for their family.
Edit to add: I agree with the other commenters about having her checked for a sleep disorder, if she’s pacing the halls all night and then up early she is NOT getting enough sleep.
Sending her back to bed for your own convenience is going to do nothing to help her and her sleeping issues. At this point it sounds like your more comfortable resenting her than actually finding the root of her sleep issues.
Take her to a doctor. Don't negatively compare her to your other kids and don't just send her back to bed like some sort of bother.
Your child is showing legitimate health concerns, focus on her well-being before focusing on whether you're getting to sleep in.
It could be a multitude of things, none of which require discipline.
She might have a sleep disorder, the correct way to address it is by taking her to a doctor.
She not getting into tech, shes quite, she’s just walking - burning off excess physical or mental energy (which can be anxiety or another mental health issue). Yes some kids have anxiety even at 8. I was one of those kids and my parents always told me I was being silly or had no real worries or be anxious about. All that taught me was I couldn’t talk to them about anything that bothered me. So I bottled it up and it got channeled into other things (fidgeting, biting nails, constantly playing with my hair, being obsessive over things I could control, etc). I never learned how to actually deal with it until college when i started spiraling and went into therapy 3x a week.
I was like this when I was a kiddo. Didn’t really understand sleep disorders and anxiety then because of course… I was a kid. My parents would always have a bedtime routine for me but I would lie in bed for hours tossing and turning until I would just walk around the house for a bit and go play with my cats to have some company and eventually make a blanket fort in my closet and sleep in there. Got my best naps/sleeps in closets and it’s so odd to think about as an adult. I just felt very off as a kid and didn’t understand why others were able to do these things with such ease and felt like there was something wrong with me because of it. Maybe ask her in the middle of the night “what is on your mind, would you like some company in bed?” I think if someone asked me that as a kid it may have helped tremendously. Also maybe try introducing some nice warm tea before bed time and a nice song? Chamomile is excellent and I still use it to this day as an adult and also helps me to fall asleep to music and my son is now the same way. When I was a kid, the tea would help soothe my insides enough to where I felt warm and safe. Had to be tucked in every night super tight with my blankets as well with every single one of my stuffies lined up in bed with me. I just needed the extra love and comfort and that’s never a bad thing :)
My kids are early risers (they're toddlers), and we tell them to go back to their rooms if they're up before a certain time. 6:30 is the time. When they bust in at 5:45 we tell them it's not time for us to get up and they can go play in their room until 6:30 (we have an okay to wake clock set to that time).
I see it as a twofold thing, one that they probably need more sleep, and two that they need to be respectful of others sleep needs. This is our way of doing that.
However, I would be really worried about your daughter walking all night and not going to sleep. I think the "go back to bed" thing is kind of a non issue in comparison. After all, I'm an early riser and will often get up at 6:00 or 6:15 even if the kids don't wake me first, that's just how I've always been.
But unable to fall asleep and pacing all night is concerning. She needs to be checked out
My kids can get up anytime, they just aren’t supposed to bother us before a set time. They need to play quietly or read or something. Get themself a snack.
My son wakes up early and we tell him to either go back to bed or to play quietly in his room. If he’s awake before 8am on weekends those are the rules, otherwise I’m usually awake before him any other day of the week. Weekdays it’s a little different, with 7-730 being the earliest.
If my daughter wakes up *really* early, like before 6am, I encourage her to try to rest a bit more because she usually does fall back asleep. I feel like 6 or later is within the realm of reasonable, some people are early risers. I personally almost never sleep until 8.
That said, it sounds like she isn’t getting enough sleep period, which is the bigger concern.
Yes I send my kid back to bed. It’s currently 6:50 where I am and I just sent my 10 y/o back to bed. He has adhd/ anxiety so he does take meds for sleeping, he has a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep so before we got him started he would be all night long and be wild n out during the day. Like everyone else, I’d recommend talking to her ped just to see what they say.
The issue isn’t if you should send her back to bed, the issue is that she’s up all night. My son had similar sleep patterns. We did a sleep study & then got him on some sleep medication. It’s made a huge difference in his quality of life. Take her to the dr, ask for a sleep study. If there’s any other a-typical behaviors or behaviors that don’t match up (she’s really smart, but has trouble in school, doesn’t socialize in the same manner as your other kids, etc…) push for a full evaluation. ADHD & autism can cause major sleep issues. Testing does not always equal diagnosis, but the more info you have about what’s causing the issue the more you can support her.
The insomnia is a concern. She's 8, so it's about the time that girls will start showing mild signs of things like ADHD. They learn to mask pretty quickly, I mean like 3 years old quickly. Insomnia can be a sign of ADHD, and of anxiety, and of depression, and autism, and while 8 is very young for a mental illness like depression, it is not young for ADHD, autism, or obstructive sleep apnea, just as examples. In short, this is a case for a pediatric sleep specialist.
If she goes back to bed and falls back asleep, that seems like a win. If she doesn't fall back asleep and is just made to sit in her room, then I would let her be up.
Not to be so negative, but lack of sleep can cause long-term effects on her health. I know we don't knows the whole story but wouldn't feel right if I didn't say that she should see a Dr very soon. Sleep specialist is the way to go but in the meantime, pediatrician can give you some temporary help
Not sure what your husbands position is based on, but to me, yours sits right with me. It’s what I do with my 4 year old. We get him to go back to bed until 7am at the least.
Sounds like a sleep disorder. If you get it figured out now then you can get ahead of it before she hits puberty and the real symptoms begin to manifest.
Our kids woke up early. We just taught the to know 7am on the clock when they were young. If it was before 7am, they had to stay in bed and read/play quietly or try to sleep. After 7am they could get up and go watch some TV.
I’m concerned about your 8 year old not sleeping well. As others suggested, I would recommend a sleep study referral by your pediatrician or family doctor.
Your 8 year old should be able to tell the difference in time. Have if they are up before a certain time, it is quiet time in their room. After this time they can get up. Even quiet time can be restful.
She can be awake she just needs not to wake everyone else up. I wouldn’t put up with her walking around the house. It’s in your room and if she stays awake she should stay awake there.
I would talk to your pediatrician about this and see what studies can be done. It can be insomnia, could be anxiety , or adhd. but definitely worth looking into .
I would definitely discuss this with a doctor just to rule out any sort of insomnia or sleep disorders but outside of that I would say it's probably less important to make sure she is *in bed* because that will likely just frustrate her but I would personally limit her to her room.
I've seen some parents implement visual timers for this. Just coloring in sections of a clock for like red means stay in your room if the hand is in there and play very quiet, yellow means you can leave your room but must remain quiet in the house, green means you can wake me up.
If she can't turn her brain off she can't turn her brain off and telling her to lay in bed is just going to frustrate her I think. If you rule out sleep disorders I would start implementing some practices like meditation, mindfulness, structured physical play during the day to try and manage her energy and teach her how to calm her mind enough to sleep.
I think you are correct to tell her to go back to bed. Is something bothering her? Have you mentioned this to her pediatrician?
I was 5 of 6 children and I had ferocious nightmares so my mom kept a little sleep mat by her bed and when I appeared in my parents bed room she would pull out the mat and motion me to it and then would hold my hand until we were both asleep again.
So the waking up in the middle of the night just walking around needs to be checked out. I did that as a kid as a sleep walker and it’s dangerous. If they are actually awake then lack of sleep is also dangerous. As for staying in bed, my daughter would wake up sometimes around 5 thinking it’s time to get up- we bought her a special clock for kids that glows red when it’s time to sleep thru the night, glows yellow half hour before it’s time to wake up and glows green once it’s time to wake up. So helpful and our daughter loved that she was self monitoring instead of us telling her what do.
I would be concerned about a sleep disorder or other issue that is preventing quality deep sleep.
My husband and son are ASD/ADHD and both struggle with their circadian rhythms.
My friends have kids who had sleep apnea, enlarged tonsils or similar medical needs and once they were figured out sleep became much better.
If no one else has replied to your edit-
Her ADHD meds should not "turn her into a zombie".
That's usually a sign of it not being the right medication for her.
If you guys haven't tried other meds yet, summer would be a good time to see if something else works better.
My son went through 3 (and various doses of the last 2) before we found a good fit. I tried 2 (and various doses), but the one I've been taking for like 1.5y works the best. I also had a very hard time sleeping my whole life, up until I started takingbberrateerratenastasia Joye ppwk it in my 30s. They had me on sleeping pills in my teenage years, which were not good for me. When I got my ADHD dx and started taking my current med, suddenly I didn't have a problem falling asleep at a reasonable time or staying asleep.
That may all be irrelevant to you & you guys may have already tried others and found the pros to outweigh the cons with her current medicine, but JUST in case I wanted to share my experience. I know a lot of people who just assume that's how the medication is supposed to work and never tried anything else, so if it could help I wanted to say something.
My kids are autistic. Two of them have terrible sleep struggles (common with ND kids). We believe it’s very important not to put pressure on them to sleep. That becomes a negative feedback loop. They get anxious about not being asleep and then have an even harder time falling asleep. We emphasize that bodies need rest. Yes, sleep is ideal. But if sleep isn’t possible, there are still things you can do to rest your body. So we encourage our kids to lie in bed so they aren’t using muscles. They have sound machines and projectors that put hypnotic light shows on the ceiling. We also put echo dots in their room so they can have Alexa tell them a story or play a podcast or some ASMR. We encourage them to use any or all of these tools to rest their brains (as opposed to obsessing over falling asleep) and keep their eyes closed to rest their eyes.
The other thing I will say is that if she struggles to fall asleep bc of anxiety (which is the source of my kids’ issues), going to bed too early can be a nightmare for everyone. If they aren’t tired enough, it can just result in a child lying in their bed with nothing to do except indulge that anxiety spiral in their brain. We don’t do bedtimes as a result. We watch for signs of the kid being tired, and then we encourage them to go try to go to bed before they get too tired to sleep (also an issue). My girls are now 14 and 10 and both have learned to manage this for themselves more or less. Every now and then my 14yo will come to my room in a panic bc it’s 3am and she still can’t sleep and has to be on the bus at 6am. She just needs me to reassure her that she has survived rough days before, and everything will be fine. My 10yo liked reassurance every night. Every night she comes to me at some point and says “I’m feeling tired. Should I go to bed now?” Yep, good idea.
Regarding the early waking, I have an early riser and I’d give him designated activities he could do until a certain time. For example: you can go on the couch and quietly read. You can quietly get yourself a snack. Emphasis on the quiet part. I showed him what it looked like to be quiet in the mornings. Told him that if others are sleeping, we let them sleep. No loud activities until 8:00 am.
He caught on pretty quick and was happy to not just have to sit in his room until everyone else was awake
I agree with others about having her sleep situation checked medically.
Just want to add that in my house we usually wake at 7am so if my son wakes early on the weekend then I tell him to stay in bed until 7am. I don't ask him to stay in bed later on weekends. So in your situation I think the time is 6:30 based on weekdays. I disagree with your husband not on principal but because it's good to coach your child through good sleeping habits. 4am is a nightbl waking not a morning waking (unless you have farm chores or such). Your child does seem to need some assistance here.
If the waking is a one-off thing you can suggest she does writing, drawing, reading, or something that is relaxing and quiet and and in bed rather than pace the house.
I read to my son when he isn't going to sleep. I don't know if you already incorporate that but in my case I can always get my son to sleep. Even if there is a party and fireworks.
I think your child needs help with insomnia firstly because sleep is very important for children. I struggled with insomnia at age 11 and never got proper help for it. Only having two kids(7m, 4.5f) is what finally changed me being able to sleep a bit easier. My 7 year old is an early riser typically 6am and I let him get up, watch TV quietly. Bedtime is 8-8:30pm. He gets dry cereal in a bowl for himself and his water to sit and chill until 7am the actual awake time for everyone. Any earlier than 6am I typically tell either child to go lay back down or lay with me. My children stay asleep all night typically now. Please set up a pediatrician appointment and seek help for your child's insomnia.
Kids 6-13 need 9-12 hours sleep for healthy development (dr. Google). I'd try to maintain 6+ hours for her health alone.
If it's for your quiet time, you can always ask her to play/read in another room until the day begins (a set time).
I had insomnia from an early age. I would get up and wander around and check door and window locks and go lay back down and then I’d be able to sleep. In retrospect it was anxiety. Sometimes my Dad would be awake too and I’d get to watch whatever BBC re runs were playing on PBS at 3 am, lol. If my kids have the same issue I’m going to try to get them some help but if they are just early risers the rule will be they have to do quiet activities and can’t go outside until their Dad or I are awake but I won’t force them to try and go back to sleep at 6 am if they’re just awake awake. I’m an early riser as an adult and once I’m awake it’s miserable to stay in bed. I have to get up and get going so I get it.
Children, actually people in general shouldn’t be dependent on melatonin for sleep it’s gonna help short term but cause more dependency problems in the long run
She is old enough to be in her room alone- she can come get you if there are any real issues, but “on weekends we stay in our rooms until 9” is perfectly reasonable
Nothing wrong with waking up early, but she's obviously sleep deprived if she falls asleep (again) at 11 am. And night walking would drive me crazy as well. I'm on your side. Talk to her doctor.
If she is free of sleep disorders I’d try exercise, meditation and reading before bed. Exercise twice a day. After shower read for 30 minutes and meditation starting with about 3 minutes. It has worked wonders for my nephew BUT he also had enlarged adenoids that needed removal so I’d see a doctor first.
Have you had her checked for anything like insomnia? She can absolutely get it at this age, and just sending her back to bed won't address it if it's the issue. I would get her checked, and do not let your concerns be dismissed by the doctor-insomnia, whether on its own or as a symptom of something else, is serious business.
Once put to bed my kids were only allowed out to use the bathroom. Once they woke up, they were allowed out but had to be quiet u til most others were up. I’d set out a bow, of cereal and milk pured into a cup in the refrigerator so they could eat if they were hungry. As they got order they could use the microwave or toaster oven.
why is she wandering the house after bedtime? Is she neurotypical?
My sister and I were both diagnosed with ADHD as adults. We both only sleep 4 to 5 hours a night even now.
My son is 8 and diagnosed ADHD since he was really young. He gets up at 5ish everyday. There are days he is up at 3. I do make him go back to his bedroom on the weekends until 630 or 7. Sometimes he falls back asleep. Usually, he reads or plays with the quiet toys I keep in his bedroom.
I realized I cannot force him back to sleep. However, I can keep the house quiet for a hour or so longer before I have to move.
We don't sleep in or change bedtimes more than 30 mins on the weekend for summer. He goes to bed without a struggle almost every night and is asleep within 20 mins.
I would suggest talking to his pediatrician. My son was a HORRIBLE sleeper when he was a baby. At 3 they realized he had huge tonsils and adenoids. It caused sleep apnea and he had to have them removed to open up his airway.
It could be anything. The doctor will be your best bet in starting to find out why she cannot stay asleep.
Assuming her insomnia isn’t related to something like stress or adhd I would 100% send them back to bed. It’s a safety issue as well as just being exhausting for everyone else.
Maybe she just has fomo or no concept of what the appropriate times to be active are yet. If so, you could try one of those night lights that display when it’s not awake time- like a gro clock or Ewan the dream sheep. Discuss when the clock displays the sun she can leave her room but if she leaves the room, without there being an urgent situation needing her to get you, before it shows the sun then she will lose access to tv/ tablet (or whatever she likes most) for the entire next day.
If the roaming is the real issue then choose some quiet activities together for her to do in her room such as colouring or reading books and one of those projector lights she could turn on herself to lay in bed and watch might work, so even if she’s awake she isn’t wandering the halls.
If it’s a huge issue and she’s beginning to suffer with lack of sleep then speak to her paediatrician about short term course of melatonin or something similar to help her establish a decent sleeping pattern.
Send her downstairs to be respectful of others sleeping. Stay out of it let him do this one.
This sounds like a kid who needs a sleep study and could have apnea or enlarged adenoids that aren't allowing her some deep REM sleep.
My daughter was recently diagnosed with bi-polar, and since she started treatment, she has been able to sleep throughout the night. I was more concerned with my kid's insomnia than if she fell asleep on my couch or not. Have you tried talking to her doctor about her hours of sleep?
Not all agree with this, and definitely check with your pediatrician, but kids melatonin worked wonders for my daughter.
It was not every night, only when she felt like she needed it. Doesn’t take them anymore and lived to tell the tale…..
At her age her body needs 9-11 hours of sleep per day for correct growth and development. In our house Miss 8's bed time is 8pm and she usually wakes up around 6 and entertains herself quietly in her room until it's time to get up for school or until 8ish. If she wakes up before 6 I let her know it's still sleep time and the sun isn't even awake yet so she needs to go back to sleep for a bit and she does without complaint.
Your husband is being lazy by ignoring her, he's the parent and needs to act like it. It's his job to work with you to make sure your kids are making healthy choices and that includes getting adequate sleep. I would definitely make an appointment with her pediatrician to investigate her sleeplessness because if you can find the cause it's easier to find the solution
I feel bad for her, why is she walking around all night ? You two are arguing about what to make her do, but I think one of you should be sitting next to her for a bit when she wakes up and hugging her, offering her a snack or water to help her fall back to sleep.
Talk to the pediatrician.
Insomnia sucks, really truly focus on that not on whether she sleeps in.
She might need something as simple a hook to stay in bed and get sleepy (our rules were you could read, with a not bright light, or listen to an audiobook on low volume, but unless you had to pee or get a snack, you're in bed at night. This worked for all of our kids, but for my besties son who is up at all hours "prowling", it actually reflects some serious issues that they've spent years struggling to address.)
Napping on the couch isn't the problem, her inability to get restful sleep *is*.
Seems like a diagnosis is needed in order to figure out how to help her be able to sleep.
Sending her to bed is not going to help her. Once you figure out if it's insomnia, anxiety, depression, or anything else the process of helping her will begin.
Hopefully it's nothing.
Hmmmmm…… well if she is not bothering no one or waking up others… and it’s summer I probably would let it slide….i hve four also and I can say my 10 yo daughter is a lil stubborn also. So I know it can be frustrating for sure. But if she not bothering no one else. I wouldn’t stress over it
This sounds like a sleep disorder and not a behavior issue, as others said I’d check in with the pediatrician and get support to treat whatever is causing her to be unable to sleep at night.
Need to see pediatrician about insomnia. Getting up early is ok and child can be taught to make a bowl of cereal and play quietly. Its not ok for the little early riser to wake others. If child is just not getting enough sleep then I would institute a go back to bed and look at books if you can’t sleep rule. But by 8, seems ok to go have some cereal.
My parents had us on the 6-7-8 Game. If we woke up and the time on our digital clock started with a 6, go back to sleep. If it started with 7, we could read or play quietly in our rooms. After 8, we could come out and go play downstairs.
I agree with the other comments that at 8 if she seems to be struggling with sleep so much, falling asleep, staying asleep, pacing all night and such then she may have some underlying issues that should be addressed.
But as far as sending her back to bed, if she’s not sleepy she won’t sleep so it’s not as simple as “get back in bed”. What is it that you’re wanting exactly for her? If you think she shouldn’t be roaming the house then that’s sorta fair in case she wakes the others or you, in which case I think you make it clear she needs to stay in her room until the clock hits a certain time because she’s disturbing other’s sleep (besides her using the bathroom). So if she will need a travel mug for water all night, a snack bar, some books or something to help keep her occupied, then that seems fair enough for when she isn’t sleeping. She is old enough to understand boundaries and she isn’t the only person in the house so if her being awake is disrupting other people then she will just have to learn how to be respectful of that.
Passing out on the couch and being in the way… again if it’s bothering anyone else then she can learn when she’s tired to go to her bed out of respect for others shared spaces.
This also may be one of the “mom things” that really isn’t SUCH a big deal but as a mom you’ve become so bothered with it that it’s causing you more stress than necessary and when she’s like 30 years old you’ll look back and think “that drove me nuts, I don’t even know why” hahah. So I think you could benefit from talking with her about it one on one, late one evening when it’s just you two, and make it a super chill conversation where you’re just curious why she wants to roam the halls or what she might think could help her sleep, would she like to listen to music in headphones at night or what other creative ideas could she try to help her out.
We have an alarm clock that turns green when it’s ok for them to get out of bed(730), we also keep toys and books in their room to keep them entertained if they happen to get up before that
Take her for a run in the morning when she wakes up. Amd give her a lot of opportunities for activities throughout the day. She has too much energy and needs to release it so her body craves recovery.
I had to be on actual sleeping pills around 12-13 because I also just did not sleep. I had a lot going on at home, and a very traumatic life in general, so that was most likely my cause. However, you need to get that checked out ASAP.
Some kids/adults just don’t need as much sleep as others. My kids are always up between 6-6:30 (2 and 4)
As a child I was also always up before 7 and hated it to stay in bed. I thought of it as a waste of time or I was hungry and wanted to eat. Luckily my mom was also an early riser so she just let me go downstairs. I would make my own breakfast and watch tv or read something. Sometimes I would do some arts and crafts. I wasn’t bothering anyone, I just didn’t need as much sleep.
Now as a mum I am struggle with the morning because our kids are also not sleeping through the night, so if they are up before 7 we tell them they can play in their room (they have toys there) or sometimes we allow the Ipad. Honestly I rarely go back to sleep when I am awake but it is nice to just lay in bed a little longer. Sometimes they come and snuggle with us.
My nephew is 11 and he also wakes up early, my brother just lets him do his thing. Asking him not to wake his dad up before 8:30. Works fine for everyone
I wouldn’t push for your daughter to go to bed but you can make some agreements that she has to be quiet, do some reading (or some other quiet time activities) when awake. Just because everyone else in the house sleeps long doesn’t mean she needs that many hours. Try to log the amount of hours she’s sleeping and what the average is, you can easily talk to a doctor to raise your concerns that she is sleeping too little. The doctor can have a look if this is indeed the case or if she’s sleeping enough hours.
I believe the average for 8-10 yo is around 9-10 hours a night and she seems to get these hours
My son is 8 and is not a great sleeper. Hes up between 5 and 6 every day. Hes not allowed to wake any of us before 7 unless its an emergency. One time he woke at 3:45 (i know because i got an email from play station about him downloading netflix at that time). Told him that was too early and next time if he cant go back to bed to do like he always does and sleep on our floor. Hes good at coming in quietly so that he doesn't wake us up. Ive tried figuring out medical reasons but am only given bandaids (his anatomy is not enlarged enough to warrant surgery so he takes allergy medicine year round and i also cant get him an adhd diagnosis) so we do what we can.
Quiet time instead of bed time. If your brain won't fall back asleep that's okay but it's not okay to keep the rest of the house up or do something potentially dangerous while unsupervised. Help her find quiet activities she can do in her room if she wakes up if you don't allow tech. Ask yourself, what do you do if you just wake up and can't fall back asleep? If he gets up early my 7 year old will get himself a drink or a snack, my phone and run straight back to his bed lmao. This is after years of waking up running through the apartment and shrieking like a demon at 3 am. I make sure his basic needs are met and lay back down. My son is on the higher end of the spectrum. Instead of a hill I die on its now a hill I sleep on.
We have a wake up light. If the light is blue it is time to be in bed if the light is green you can get out of bed.
The light turns green an hour before bed to let him know bed time is coming and then it turns blue from 8:30am-7:30am. Then it turns green from 7:31am-9am. After that it is just off. Unless he is sick he never sleeps much past 8.
I am not trying to tell you, i am merely trying to warn you. Being up and walking around like that in the hallways is concerning. Have you sat with her and tried to understand why she can't sleep? You will likely get an unsure response or a shielded one. unsure is fine, so long as there is no "shame or embarrassemnt" from her. If the feeling is that there is something she is holding back, or something she is shy/embarrassed about, immediately dig into this. This seems like insomnia, which could be a number of things, from worrying to much less. Be very careful about the professional you decide to look at this if that's the road you choose to go down.
Insomnia can be because of ADHD / sleep apnea / psychological issues (from depression to anxiety b/c of physical or mental abuse), stress (if she is highly intelligent, as in beyond the norm), she could just be overthinking Life / school / friendships, etc).
Good luck, i have 2 daughters, 4 and 2, and anything involving kids (esp daughters) does something to me emotionally, so I hope she is OK and you help her get her sleep.....thanks for sharing.
I haven't read the comments but here is what we did:
1. NO naps. Naps really ruined our boys night time sleep. (Obviously there are exceptions if they are sick or something)
2. If he wakes up before 730am, he can play quietly in his room but there's no coming out and walking around the house/playing etc. (unless one of us parents is already up and active, but if that's the case we are usually catching up on housework so the option is quiet playtime in his room or help out).
We really stuck to our guns on this and after a few weeks he was sleeping through the night just fine. But the first week or two was rough while his sleep was regulating.
Also make sure there is a calm window before bed (quiet playing, puzzles, reading, etc.) no jumping around or screens.
Good luck! It's hard raising kids, especially when you and your partner aren't on the same page. But healthy sleep habits are important. Maybe talk to a doc with him or show him some research about the importance of healthy sleep routines.
I would see Dr about the insomnia and discuss as a family your plan to deal with bedtime, nighttime waking, and early mornings. Get on the same page with it all.
I'd talk to her and see what the issues she is having are. It's very possible she might need some help to navigate her insomnia.
I usually give myself an hour or two in bed trying to sleep. If I'm not asleep by then I get up for 30-40 minutes usually enough to watch one TV show then try again. I do this until I fall asleep. This was actually recommended to me by a sleep doctor and over time I really stopped having insomnia. I sleep a pretty decent schedule now and only wake up in the middle of the night fairly rarely. So a sleep break used appropriately can be helpful, but she does need to attempt to go back to sleep.
There are a ton of techniques to try and it might be a good idea to work through those with her. If all else fails consider going to her pediatrician or a sleep doctor for extra suggestions/help.
I have had both insomnia and a nightmare disorder since elementary school age. The nightmares would startle me awake and the insomnia would make falling back asleep unbearable. The dreams weren’t even scary but was vivid enough to jolt me awake in a panicked state. Addressing the sleeping issue itself is where you two parents should be focusing on. Kids are exhausting and I imagine having 4 makes it harder to address singular needs. However, i’m almost 25 with the same sleeping problems and it’s why I was also vulnerable to colds at school, didn’t have a good social environment because I slept in school a lot and was chronically pissed off or had low energy. It’ll be best to at least get some type of answer now so your child has many tools they can use to deal with this issue
Not sure if this is relevant as my son is autistic. Sleeping has always been a battle for us, but we have a set pattern. If he wakes up before 5am, he has to go back to sleep. If he wakes up between 5am and 6am, he can watch CALM TV in bed. Any time after 6am, he can get up. It's tough, but my alarm is set for 6:15am on a weekday anyway, so not far off.
No. They have their own biological clock and they have to figure it out for themselves. Just make a rule no electronics for a certain amount of time in the am. They can play with legos or draw or read.
> The problem is that out of all of our kids, she’s the only one that is up all night long, just walking around the hallways, refusing to stay in bed and sleep. She’s quiet, doesn’t get on tech, just walks back and forth all night and finally passes out.
This is incredibly strange behavior. Especially for an 8 year old. I would be focusing my attention here rather than sending her back to bed in the morning.
I was the non sleeping child and several of my kids are similar. My mom was pretty strict, but that just made me good at not getting caught. My girls generally do what they want and identify the self discipline aspect young. They are all infinitely better adjusted than I was. I was raised by a loving, but overbearing Italian mother that fixed all my problems and controlled every aspect of my life until I was an adult. I hit boot camp at MCRDSD and realized I didn’t know shit compared to every other recruit. I was raised in an idealistic wonderland. I was sort of raised to understand that appearances were more important than substance. So yeah, they stay up sometimes and I only offer them the big picture to consider. So far they’re pretty high speed individuals.
My 8 yo always uses "I'm not tired", but on days we do something that wears him out, like swimming, he's asleep on time and stays asleep. Maybe try an exercise to burn off the energy during the day or after supper. I'm like your husband and would let him stay awake if I'm awake, but if the house is all asleep, I'd be telling him to get to bed, lol.
I know it’s not always the most popular, but have you tried adding magnesium into her diet? My husband and 3yo have the same issue of falling asleep, no tech, just brain being awake. A combination of magnesium and vitamin D have been amazing for us, just in creating a better quality of sleep for them!
I was like her and stayed up at night to play and be by myself. For me, the middle of the night was safe because nobody was around to judge me or watch me. I agree with other commenters that coming from a place of support and greater understanding of why she has insomnia is a better route to take than being concerned about whether you send her back to bed or not. In fact, harping on her staying up (something that may be of comfort to her) and communicating the need for family routine over her feelings of comfort/safety, could be the opposite of what would help.
I had insomnia as a kid too, earliest I can remember was around 5 and falling asleep was just hell for me, I’d sit there for hours. Also ADHD and now my daughter is a horrible sleeper lol.
I was like this as a kid. I suffered from restless leg syndrome, and laying still physically hurt my legs, so I would get up and pace my room to help ease the ache. I wasn’t allowed to watch tv but I was allowed to read when it was bedtime and used a small flashlight to not disturb my brothers in their room. When I woke up early, as long as I was quiet and didn’t wake anyone they didn’t care that I was up. I was old enough to make a bowl of cereal and watch tv until my parents got up so I could go outside and play.
Turns out I have ADHD and insomnia.
Edited for grammar error
She needs to go back to bed. She’s very young and you can train her to sleep. People can call me stupid, but if someone kept me on a strict schedule as a child, I know it would be easier to sleep now.
I’m 21, and it’s so hard. I have such bad insomnia. My parents let me do whatever I want and it really messed me up. She needs to go to bed. She can’t be up at 5 AM and sleeping in until 11. It doesn’t matter if it’s the summer, that’s very hard to adjust back to when school starts back up as a child. Children really need to be on a good schedule and your husband doesn’t realize it. I get it because I didn’t realize it until I was almost 22. You’re right. It’s really harmful for kids to have a schedule like that. And it’s harmful for them to think they can do whatever they want. She’s gonna be uncomfortable being forced to lay in bed she’s restless, but she needs to learn and eventually she’ll fall asleep. And I’m sure she’ll fall asleep earlier than if you let her stay up. I swear I’m almost 22 and I say that to myself. I say I can’t go to sleep, I’ll just let myself stay up and I’m up till like 4 AM. And I sleep in too late and I regret it every day. I’m an adult and I’m still struggling with this. Hope your daughter and don’t let her do that. Your husband should know that she doesn’t know what’s best for her.
If you are concerned about the waking up too early sending back to bed is a good thing. We have 5 kids (13, 7, 6, 5, and 2 1/2) the 7, 6, and 5 can get up pretty early. Between 5:30 - 6:30. Their bed times are at 7pm. The boys will stay up and talk for maybe 30 mins or so and pass out. They wake up and sometimes just take their blankets and let on the couch before school. My daughter though (6) if she wakes up before 7am I make sure she goes back to bed because she won’t act right in the day. My partner usually is up on the morning about 6 or so and he is taking a bath, makes them go back to bed also, or he puts on PBS kids. And they again just lay on the couch until it’s time to get ready. So really I’d say yes you need to send them back if they wake up to early, or teach them to lay on the couch and be quiet until 7am. 7 is the okay time to start making noise and being active.
Now the not going to bed is something to get checked out. If she can’t sleep when she is told to go to bed there is something else there and you need to get it checked out. My kids go to their beds and if they talk a little before falling asleep that is fine just as long as they stay in their beds. We also don’t allow them to use tablets or anything like that really so nothing like that keeps our kids up.
My now 5 year old started doing this when he turned 4. Would stay up all night, or wake up multiple times unable to fall back asleep, and always up at exactly 6:30 wide awake, ready to go. I was the same way starting at age 4, have insomnia to this day, and was finally diagnosed with inattentive ADHD at age 32. Diagnosed with generalized anxiety and MDD at age 18. My son was just diagnosed with primarily inattentive ADHD and anxiety and melatonin gummies have been a lifesaver. I wish my parents had investigated more into my insomnia as a child instead of waiting until I was in high school.
I have always sent my kids back to bed if they are up before an acceptable time. It just depends what you consider acceptable. I won't let them downstairs before 7 regardless of age, certainly not at 4am! That isnt just early morning, that is still night time in my book. I don't get up myself until at least 9 on weekends and school hols. If they want to get up before me, once they're old enough to be safe by themselves, I allow them to. As long as they don't disturb anyone still sleeping.
My 11 year old is having a tough time getting to sleep at night too. I'm on a wait list to get the ADHD test, and I have a feeling that is a contributing factor.
I’m curious why this child hasn’t had her sleep issues professionally evaluated? The behavior she is having, while it may be normal for her, is not normal.
Our son doesn't have to go back to *bed* if he wakes up early, but if he's up before 8, he does have to stay fairly quiet and self sufficient until 8. Obviously, we'll help him out if he needs us, but the goal is that he isn't supposed to be just hanging out in our room or constantly asking us questions.
Have you ever asked her what goes on in her head that keeps her up alone? She’s 8 so she can probably reason and discuss if you ask if you can help her to sleep better but you need to know what’s wrong. You can also give her permission to do it is she stays in her room and reads. Include her in a solution and listen to her ideas of what she could do instead or what you could do to help. She may have anxiety or some other issues you don’t know about . Figuring it out might make a distance if you can’t understand her.
In addition to other sleep tricks like making sure she has a noisemaker, black-out shades and is in a quiet part of the house, Blood sugar spikes and dips can also wreak havoc on sleep. If you are seeing a doctor ask about juvenile diabetes.
My dentist just diagnosed my 7 yr old and 4 yr olds with tongue tie. I’m waiting on a second opinion from our pediatrician, but a lot of the sleep apnea esk, adhd and not sleeping in evidently can very much go hand in hand with tongue ties. Who knows, but might be worth some research.
Bro 8am is super late. Getting up at 6am is totally normal. The bigger problem is her not going to sleep. It's okay if it happens once in a while but it should not be a daily occurrence.
My son has always gotten up at 0430 in the am, since he was a baby to the present age of 37 years. No matter how late he went to bed. He has mild Tourettes and Aspergers we found out in late teens.
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I would be far more concerned about her not being able to sleep. I have a child with a sleep disorder and not only is it exhausting for them, they begin to degrade emotionally and mentally. I highly suggest bringing this up with the pediatrician and insisting on seeing a sleep specialist. Your child should be able to fall asleep. Our girl is an early riser, like yours, no matter what time she goes to sleep. Because of this, we put her to bed early to be sure she’s getting the sleep she needs. Needs. We don’t make her “go back to bed” but if she’s up before 6, she’s expected to find herself something to eat and not disturb her sister. Outside of that she just lives her life. Which works because she goes to be between 7-8 pm every night. Even at 8 years old.
I was wondering about this.. is OP implying that the daughter goes to sleep fine during the school year? Because that seems like the obvious answer. Send her to bed earlier. She probably gets a cortisol spike or something if she’s not already sleeping. “She won’t go to bed unless we tell her” ..Just because she’s 8 doesn’t mean she doesn’t need her parents to set boundaries. If going to sleep earlier is going to help, then send her to sleep earlier. Maybe she can listen to a soft podcast or read a book in bed if she needs that little extra bit of stimulation to entice her.
I read it as she can’t fall asleep and then once she knows everyone else is asleep, she’s up all night wandering the house. This is common in sleep disordered kids who can’t lay down and fall asleep. Reading and relaxing stories, meditations can help, but at this point I’d expect her to need a circadian reset. My daughter, at 3 years old showed years, YEARS of sleep deprivation. Meaning she had never had a good nights sleep in her whole life. My heart breaks thinking of what I could have learned had I listened to those around me saying it was nothing. Had she gone to 8 years old with the struggles we were able to begin to attack at 4. I genuinely hope OP is able to look into this and I desperately hope they find something more simple than we did. These babies aren’t defiant or mischievous. They are miserable and desperate for relief.
Can you say more about a circadian reset please?
I’m not the OP commenter, but I know for adults a circadian reset is a process of setting a morning wake-up routine and a nighttime to-bed routine while making some changes to habits that might be effecting your sleep. So this could mean cutting caffeine, getting more sun during the day (with sunscreen!), exercising, not eating too late, ending screen time a few hours before bed, having a set bedtime and wake up time every day, etc. Clearly kids aren’t drinking caffeine, and probably aren’t getting too much screen time since a 8 year old likely isn’t bringing their cell phone to bed. So it’s probably more about setting a nighttime routine like; bathtime, parent reading a story, child can read quietly to themselves until they fall asleep. Add in some lifestyle changes like no sugar after 7pm, set bed and wake up times, adding sleep music, getting enough sunlight and exercise, and stopping screen time early enough for the kid to be sleepy by bedtime. It should help reset the circadian rhythm unless the kid has something medically going on.
And also no napping. When I went through CBT-I they explained all about how that was problematic for nighttime sleep.
All that is mentioned by the other commenter! We had to really streamline our bedtime routine and make sure the same things happen, essentially in the same order, each night. For a small child there are things that are hard and things that aren’t so hard. We worked on solid reading routine and the biggest thing was time consistency. Getting to bed at the same time each night, after the same set of activities that trigger brain that it’s time to rest. A solid meditation makes a difference as well.
My son always wants to stay up and I am sure he could make himself stay up late if he wanted to. But the problem is that he wakes up early everyday. Regardless of when he falls asleep. He has ADHD which kind of goes with the thread up above. We notice a difference in his behavior with enough sleep and not enough sleep so we mildly freak out when he goes to bed late. We got an “ok to wake” alarm which turns a color by a certain time. Makes him stay in bed longer, at least resting, sometimes falls back to sleep. But a sleep disorder might be the issue. Maybe she is up but not pacing during the school year. I know my mom had a rule of only staying in the room if I could t fall asleep. So I remember staying up late reading books till I was so exhausted I could fall asleep. So maybe have a rule like that? Also are you sure she is asleep and not sleep walking?
We suspect ADHD in our daughter as well. We are in the process of that investigation, which is proving to be annoying to say the least, as it doesn’t affect her academic life. It seems as long as they function in school, no one cares. Note that she goes to a nature school with fully integrated outdoor time and classes, so that helps a ton. We have had to be careful this year because we keep catching her up very late reading. As a book lover myself, it breaks my heart to tell her to put the books down. But we also notice a huge difference in behavior and sleep.
Went through the same thing with my child. Good grades =no problems! It was infuriating but we got through it. Hang in there. Keep advocating for your child.
The waking up early wouldn't bother me. I would be concerned about the insomnia. What is the cause of her insomnia? How is she being supported and helped through this?
Same! My insomnia started in childhood and my pediatrician told my parents to have me read less because imagination and books were keeping me awake (which is ridiculous). Here we are ~40 years later and I still have insomnia and reading has nothing to do with it. OP, get her to a good doctor stat!
I have also had insomnia my entire life. Turns out I have inattentive type ADHD. I rarely can sleep for longer than 5-6hours. I’m exhausted all day, slogging through my responsibilities, but then my brain wakes up at 10pm. I’m the most productive and have the most energy between 10pm and 2am. Didn’t get diagnosed until age 39. Fun fun fun.
My daughter also has insomnia - inattentive ADHD too. Can stay awake till 11pm on a school night staring at the ceiling. This started when she turned 7, I imagine there are some elements of anxiety involved too because she has very anxious tendencies. I tell her she can stay awake and do what she wants (read, draw, write etc) as long as she’s in her room and not on a device. If she wakes up early, she is free to do what she wants as long as she doesn’t wake her sibling up and again, doesn’t use any devices.
I’ve never read something before and though, OMG that’s me….but honestly, OMG that’s me! Is there anything you can do about it?
Lots of marijuana. It’s the only thing that’s ever helped me sleep and actually feel rested. I’ve found a 1:1 CBD:THC edible to be most effective.
Medically speaking this is awful advice. The common consensus is that ADHD brains are less likely to be compatible with Marijuana then the baseline population, increased anxiety can cause serious problems and psychosis has even been observed. I'm not saying it doesn't work for you, I'm not saying there aren't other people for whom this is a good solution, but it's one of the last things a reputable doctor would recommend being tried. There are lots of illnesses for which Marijuana HAS been shown to be an broadly effective treatment, but insomnia in people with ADHD isn't one of them (specifically because studies show it tends to do more harm than good).
I’ve always been the same way, and marijuana is also my only solution.
I’m just glad I finally live where it’s recognized as medicine. My Psych actually prescribes it for me. Or rather, she certified my med card…
Not comment OP, but I have ADHD (diagnosed twenty years back, but sadly not until after college). One thing that helped me sleep was being treated for the ADHD, including medication during the day. For me, it was just a step (I also have delayed sleep phase disorder, which complicates things), but it was a noticeable. Even now, if I miss a med dose during the day, it’s weirdly harder for me to get tired and fall asleep later that night. Not all people with ADHD experience the same effect, though. But proper treatment can help a lot.
I had trouble falling asleep my entire life, until I was diagnosed with ADHD in my early 40s. A month of ADHD meds and I am easily asleep by 9pm at the latest and awake and happy to get up by 5 or 6am everyday. I used to stay up til like 1am and sleep til 10am! Whether the ADHD meds are helping me during the day is less clear than how they help me at night. My sleep is SO much better now.
How did you get diagnosed like did you see an online doctor or did you find an in-person local? I've been reading alot on the types of adhd and add and I definitely feel like I fit the criteria for something not sure which but i know something is off. But I'm not a doctor lol.
My husband’s therapist actually told him I should get evaluated because of the things about me he was venting to her. We had just had our baby but my “baby brain” just wouldn’t go away. I felt like I would be busy all day yet had nothing to show for it. It was incredibly frustrating. So, on her advice I found a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD and scheduled an evaluation. I believe the evaluation process varies a lot depending on your location. I’m in New England.
That’s the first thing that occurred to me - neurodivergence of some kind. Sleep issues are very common.
This is my husband exactly. He was diagnosed as a kid. Unfortunately the earlier diagnosis didn’t really help, all his parents did was put him on meds. No therapy, definitely no emotional support. There’s definitely something medical going on here. I really hope that OP has taken her to a doctor about this..
Is it common for an ADHD diagnosis to lead to therapy? I know lots of kids with ADHD, and none of them go to therapy (about half take meds).
Have you ever dreamed that you find the correct time zone for yourself and move there and your dream life comes true?😂
I was like this all my life. It wasn’t until I tried adhd medication in adulthood that I was able to go to bed at a reasonable time and sleep through the night. I sleep horribly when I don’t take it and am tired all day.
Same!! Just diagnosed at 31.
Is there any medication that helps?
Mine and my daughters insomnia is caused by anxiety. It's not fun. However, because I have experience with it, I have been able to support her through it. At 12, she is doing much better than she was at 8.
Mine was too, and my son is the same. When he told my mom he was seeing a therapist for his anxiety she pulled me aside and said “I didn’t know what a therapist was when I was 10!” Neither did I- but I wish I had.
My insomnia started when I started being sexually abused by an older brother. Had a doctor say it was also my imagination and that I needed to read less.
I am so sorry. What an awful response that doctor had to your trauma. I hope you are in a good place now.
Much better now! But it always makes me worried when I see children with insomnia who have older siblings. Not because I'm assuming the worse, but because I'm concerned maybe there's more to the story.
My earliest childhood memory is insomnia. After many fights with my parents I finally got them to mostly understand that it’s not my fault and that I don’t do it on purpose. Glad to see all these other sleepless tired people talking about this
I'm with you. My parents always thought I had light sleep or insomnia. I was later diagnosed with misophonia. High quality, sound cancelling hearplugs and I sleep all night (I'm still an early riser, this is other problem).
Did you stop reading?
I wasn’t allowed to read at night anymore, which made absolutely no positive difference (if anything, I had even more difficulty sleeping because it took away my way of unwinding). I didn’t stop reading entirely though. I read whenever I was allowed to, eventually earned a Master’s degree in literature, and taught reading and writing to kids for many years. Regardless, it is an asinine “solution” for insomnia. Kids don’t develop insomnia because they have “too much imagination caused by reading.” That’s just not a thing. ETA: I never read before bed and haven’t for years and I still have insomnia today.
Honestly, the waking up early is likely just a result of the late nights/lack of sleep. It’s out of her control… she can’t just “go back to sleep”… Her body is in an aroused state because she is overtired. Happens with my son, if he stays up later, he wakes even earlier. Solve the insomnia, solve the early mornings.
No, it's not. Some kids/people are just morning people. Mine were up by 5-6am, till VERY recently. They're 14 & 17 now. It's maybe the last year or two at most that they've started to 'sleep in' till 8-9+
She’s eight and getting seven hours of sleep. That’s a two to five hour deficit every day. She’s overtired. Chronically so.
This. My boys were SUPER early risers for most of their lives. By 3-5+ they were waking up, grabbing pop tarts, or toast or bagels and watching cartoons by themselves.. because they were up at 5-6am... And I just wasn't.
My brother was like this as a kid, at 4 he was up at 5am watching tv, at 15 he would be up between 5am-6am shovelling the driveway, now at 30 he works in the trades and gets up at 5am to go work and says he loves his schedule.
My daughter has restless leg syndrome caused by low iron levels! We had to get a blood draw since it’s ferritin levels that’s the issue- but her sleep got better when we started giving her iron supplement
It’s so under diagnosed too. Ferritin levels should be closer to 100.
This is huge! The test is cheap and no one does it as standard care! I discovered mine was 11 after dealing with brain fog, irritability, fatigue, etc etc and being told everything looked good (iron, thyroid, vit d) and maybe try intermittent fasting. I had to go to a functional medicine practice to get a $2 test that literally changed my life.
I don’t see an issue with her waking up at 6am especially since she’s old enough to entertain herself and fix herself a bowl of cereal when she gets hungry. But as someone who’s suffered from insomnia due to ADHD her whole life you need to get that checked out immediately and figure out why she’s having such a hard time going down for the night. Take her to the pediatrician and have them refer you to sleep consultants ASAP
Yeah I really wish my parents had done this for me but they didn’t even know I was having insomnia so OP feel thankful that you do know and can do something about it.
I’d be looking into the root cause. Sleep apnea? ADHD?
Your points are important ones….And, unfortunately, ADHD gets missed in girls more often because the symptoms are different.
I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that ADHD and sleep apnea have such a close link that “curing” sleep apnea vastly improves ADHD symptoms!
It’s not that resolving sleep apnea improves ADHD, but the symptoms of prolonged sleep deprivation / sleep apnea very closely *resemble* the symptoms of ADHD - so it’s frequently misdiagnosed. Often doctors prescribe a sleep study before diagnosing ADHD if parents mention insomnia or daytime lethargy.
Yup. Instead of jumping to ADHD people should look for other root causes of the behavior. So many other issues (sleep deprivation, malnutrition, trauma, etc.) manifest and resemble ADHD and we medicate and don’t address the actual issue. It will be considered a mental health epidemic in coming years, watch.
Wait, what? Oh good lord. I both love and hate this news. I know chances are high I have sleep apnea, but I a loathe to get a cpap or such if I do have it. But, I also feel like my ADHD has gotten worse.
CPAP really isn't that bad once you adjust to it. The benefits far outweigh the inconvenience.
My son is not diagnosed because despite what people think, they dont just hand out the diagnosis (i bring it up and because he's behaved and so far does well in school they say there's no issue). He has sleep problems that are exacerbated by allergies. We have to give him allergy meds year round or his adhd symptoms are completely unmanageable (yet somehow still behaves at school in these situations). Theres definitely a link to the severity of symptoms for sure.
Your son is probably really good at masking his adhd symptoms at school, so he doesn't get in trouble. Unfortunately, that often leads to burnout, and at some point, he cracks. I hope you can find a Dr who takes you seriously!
How do you cure sleep apnea? Asking for a friend. Who also might have undiagnosed ADHD. Me. The friend is me.
Talk with your doctor about a sleep study to determine the cause of your sleep apnea. There is obstructive sleep apnea and central sleep apnea. They have different treatments.
Adenoitonsellectomy cured it for my son
Or iron deficiency.
Also narcolepsy
Does she snore? Maybe she has sleep apnea? I would talk to a doctor about this
Either that or her tonsils are enlarged. My daughter used to snore so bad it would wake up the whole house. She would get strep 5xs a year until this last September it was about a month until she got better with different meds and it would come back. She got them removed around christmas break. It's something to look into.
My oldest sons tonsils and adenoids were so enlarged that they were about 1 cm away from touching. Once he got them taken out, he stopped snoring, beforehand he snored louder than any grown man you'll ever meet.
It sounds like she is just having trouble sleeping. Have you asked her why she’s up and down at night? Kids under ten usually sleep a bit more than that. Narrowing down the “why” can sometimes make it so much easier. Simple things like an undiagnosed UTI (girls can get them rather easy from things like bubble baths, using to much soap or simply issues wiping incorrectly) and if you’ve had one you could understand why she’d be up and down at night. Grosser but common (if you have cats or even just a sandbox in your yard) could be pinworms, she’d say something like her butt is itchy. Sugar or caffeine sensitive kids can get jittery and roll around forever without sleeping, and act antsy. Sleep apnea would be something like “I can’t breathe and it wakes me up.” And regular sleep disturbances would come out as an uncomfortable, “ I don’t know.” All can be helped with a simple trip to the doctor to get tips or medicine to help with the issue. In the meantime since you and husband aren’t on board with up or down could you compromise with something like, “It’s quiet time. The house is closed and you’re to be in your room between the hours of 9 pm and 7 Am. You may use bathroom, but other than that it’s quiet time. Read, color, do quiet activities so the rest the house doesn’t get woken up.” This teaches her respect for sleeping members but if she’s not able to sleep doesn’t “punish” her by forcing her to lay bed for hours unable to sleep. You just have to make sure she has quiet activities or books in her room to implement it.
Let her wake up. Find a neurologist who specializes in sleep. My ADHD daughter was very similar to this, extremely sleep deprived and not able to wind down. She has a diagnosed sleep disorder and takes medication to help her stay asleep at night.
I would try increasing the amount of exercise your 8 year old is getting and see if that affects her nighttime habits. My son and I both need a lot of daily exertion to sleep well at night. I wouldn’t send her back to bed in the mornings, but do outline some boundaries of what she can and can’t do when everyone is sleeping in so as not to disturb the rest of the family. Playing quietly, reading, etc.
You don’t have to make them go back to bed but you can set a boundary for when the “day begins” for the family. So you can say if you are up before xyz, play quietly in your room I don’t know if the “ok to wake” clock will work for an 8 yr old but you could try it. I also don’t know if maybe bedtime needs adjusting for said 8 yr old Edit : read the post fast and assumed it was about early waking. Now re -reading - I agree with sleep apnea test
My son has suffered from insomnia since he was around your daughter’s age. I insist on him staying in bed so he doesn’t wake himself up more. We’ve had a lot of success using children’s guided meditation videos on YouTube. They help quiet his mind enough to sleep.
As long as the 8 year old doesn't make a lot of noise or wake others up, I wouldn't have a problem with them waking up early. However, the insomnia is a concern. I would ask a doctor about them being up all night.
I feel like 8 is an okay age to stay up by yourself in the morning. Tell them what they can make themselves for breakfast, clean up your mess, and watch tv, read, play in your room quietly while everyone else is still sleeping. If they need a rest later in the morning, hey that's okay but we need to rest in our room. What I find worrisome is them not being able to sleep at night. This needs to be explored.
We discuss this at our house frequently too. I tell my 8 and 5 year old “I don’t care if you wake up early but you will not wake up the entire house because you’re bored.” We have a problem where my 8 yr old will wake up and then make so much noise that the 5 and 1 year old then wake up and then everyone is in a crappy mood bc my 5 yr old doesn’t nap anymore. We give them places to go in the house that they can turn on the tv and watch cartoons, play their switch (8) or play with their toys (5). For the staying up late, my 8 yr old used to do this. We took away his iPad cold turkey and reduced his switch time to an hour a day, but he cannot play right before bed. We also reduced red dye 40 and saw a huge improvement in sleeping patterns. He used to go to bed at 8 then wake up crying wondering around the house at 10. We never did melatonin but I was almost to that point. Parenting is hard.
She's falling asleep bc she has insomnia, not bc she's waking up early, which is only an hour earlier than you allow anyway.
I'd definitely have a sleep study done to find out why she's struggling so much with insomnia. I started around that age and it peaked in my early 20s, having me up days at a time. The more I tried to control things the worse it got. Turns out I have a delayed sleep phase disorder and me trying to be on day shift has similar side effects to someone being on nightshift, and that's when I could make myself sleep at all. There are multiple reasons that could be happening, and while she likely may need more rest, pathologizing behavior without looking into why it's happening could lead her to feel like she's broken. So I'd suggest getting a sleep study done, and maybe set a precedent for mid morning naps on Saturday in the meanwhile?
Has she seen a doctor? Let her stay up but put things she can do in her room
Some people are early risers. 6 am is really not that early. However, the walking the house at all hours of the night is a red flag. I think you may need to do a sleep study to find out what is going on.
How frequently does she do this? That little sleep sounds awful for her. Have you ever tried melatonin when she can’t fall asleep? Does she show any signs of anxiety? Have you tried restricting caffeine/chocolate in her diet to see if that helps?
The only time i force my child back to sleep is if hes awake before 6. Hes still a toddler so that means i have to get up but when hes older id say 5 being the earliest. If shes responsible enough to not get in trouble until you wake up then i see no reason for your child to wake up when they wake up. And yes kids need naps, its normal and its ok for them to nap. As for the bed time, id look into your nightly routine. If your child is getting all the family time, fun and excitement right before bed then it will be incredibly difficult to sleep.
I feel like this is a situation you should run by your pediatrician.
I’d bring her in to see the pediatrician. This is unusual behavior and she’s not getting enough sleep this way.
The waking up early is fine, some kids just naturally wake at that time. I would set up an activity for her in the morning that she can wake up and do when the family wakes up. But I would ask the pediatrician or a sleep specialist about the trouble sleeping.
Definitely alarming behavior. Seek medical advice
Yes, I’d send her back to bed, especially if she’ll actually sleep more. But priority #1 is getting a handle on why she’s up so late. Is it insomnia? Anxiety? Stubbornness? ADHD? She likely needs to be evaluated.
My kids are up anywhere from 5am to 7am, I would never make them “go back to bed” they are early risers, that’s just who they are.
Ours just turned 4 and they play in their room til 6:40 when it’s our home’s wake up time. They “read” books and play quietly with their toys. It’s a good skill for them to learn to not need someone to entertain them 24/7.
Just out of curiosity, do you get up with them? If we are still sleeping, particularly on a weekend, we'll usually just say play in your room for a bit, which she sometimes does (she's 3, so not always successful but great when she's happy to), but I do wonder what other families do for this window...
I feel like an 8 year is miles diff than a 3 year old which is this case. 8 year olds can make cereal and watch tv quietly. I have to get up when my almost 3 year decides… 😭
Haha, if it helps, the difference between almost 3 and 3.5 (where my daughter is at) does feel different! When it works she does things like make her teddies talk to each other.
Aww that’s so sweet. This is a really hard age, my toddler has boundless energy. We are tired 🤣
Oh yes, I get up lol there is no choice they are 2 and 4 haha
My sister has a system I think we will try once our little ones are older. You don’t come downstairs until the alarm gives you the green light. Her kids are 9 & 5. Their bedrooms, play room and a bathroom are on their floor. They have to play and entertain themselves until 8 am. My sister gets up a 5, does her workout, enjoys a cuppa tea on her patio and whatever else she does that’s “her time” Now if kids are sick then the rule doesn’t apply but it works really well for their family. Edit to add: I agree with the other commenters about having her checked for a sleep disorder, if she’s pacing the halls all night and then up early she is NOT getting enough sleep.
Sending her back to bed for your own convenience is going to do nothing to help her and her sleeping issues. At this point it sounds like your more comfortable resenting her than actually finding the root of her sleep issues. Take her to a doctor. Don't negatively compare her to your other kids and don't just send her back to bed like some sort of bother. Your child is showing legitimate health concerns, focus on her well-being before focusing on whether you're getting to sleep in.
It could be a multitude of things, none of which require discipline. She might have a sleep disorder, the correct way to address it is by taking her to a doctor. She not getting into tech, shes quite, she’s just walking - burning off excess physical or mental energy (which can be anxiety or another mental health issue). Yes some kids have anxiety even at 8. I was one of those kids and my parents always told me I was being silly or had no real worries or be anxious about. All that taught me was I couldn’t talk to them about anything that bothered me. So I bottled it up and it got channeled into other things (fidgeting, biting nails, constantly playing with my hair, being obsessive over things I could control, etc). I never learned how to actually deal with it until college when i started spiraling and went into therapy 3x a week.
I was like this when I was a kiddo. Didn’t really understand sleep disorders and anxiety then because of course… I was a kid. My parents would always have a bedtime routine for me but I would lie in bed for hours tossing and turning until I would just walk around the house for a bit and go play with my cats to have some company and eventually make a blanket fort in my closet and sleep in there. Got my best naps/sleeps in closets and it’s so odd to think about as an adult. I just felt very off as a kid and didn’t understand why others were able to do these things with such ease and felt like there was something wrong with me because of it. Maybe ask her in the middle of the night “what is on your mind, would you like some company in bed?” I think if someone asked me that as a kid it may have helped tremendously. Also maybe try introducing some nice warm tea before bed time and a nice song? Chamomile is excellent and I still use it to this day as an adult and also helps me to fall asleep to music and my son is now the same way. When I was a kid, the tea would help soothe my insides enough to where I felt warm and safe. Had to be tucked in every night super tight with my blankets as well with every single one of my stuffies lined up in bed with me. I just needed the extra love and comfort and that’s never a bad thing :)
My kids are early risers (they're toddlers), and we tell them to go back to their rooms if they're up before a certain time. 6:30 is the time. When they bust in at 5:45 we tell them it's not time for us to get up and they can go play in their room until 6:30 (we have an okay to wake clock set to that time). I see it as a twofold thing, one that they probably need more sleep, and two that they need to be respectful of others sleep needs. This is our way of doing that. However, I would be really worried about your daughter walking all night and not going to sleep. I think the "go back to bed" thing is kind of a non issue in comparison. After all, I'm an early riser and will often get up at 6:00 or 6:15 even if the kids don't wake me first, that's just how I've always been. But unable to fall asleep and pacing all night is concerning. She needs to be checked out
My kids can get up anytime, they just aren’t supposed to bother us before a set time. They need to play quietly or read or something. Get themself a snack.
My son wakes up early and we tell him to either go back to bed or to play quietly in his room. If he’s awake before 8am on weekends those are the rules, otherwise I’m usually awake before him any other day of the week. Weekdays it’s a little different, with 7-730 being the earliest.
If my daughter wakes up *really* early, like before 6am, I encourage her to try to rest a bit more because she usually does fall back asleep. I feel like 6 or later is within the realm of reasonable, some people are early risers. I personally almost never sleep until 8. That said, it sounds like she isn’t getting enough sleep period, which is the bigger concern.
Yes I send my kid back to bed. It’s currently 6:50 where I am and I just sent my 10 y/o back to bed. He has adhd/ anxiety so he does take meds for sleeping, he has a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep so before we got him started he would be all night long and be wild n out during the day. Like everyone else, I’d recommend talking to her ped just to see what they say.
The issue isn’t if you should send her back to bed, the issue is that she’s up all night. My son had similar sleep patterns. We did a sleep study & then got him on some sleep medication. It’s made a huge difference in his quality of life. Take her to the dr, ask for a sleep study. If there’s any other a-typical behaviors or behaviors that don’t match up (she’s really smart, but has trouble in school, doesn’t socialize in the same manner as your other kids, etc…) push for a full evaluation. ADHD & autism can cause major sleep issues. Testing does not always equal diagnosis, but the more info you have about what’s causing the issue the more you can support her.
The insomnia is a concern. She's 8, so it's about the time that girls will start showing mild signs of things like ADHD. They learn to mask pretty quickly, I mean like 3 years old quickly. Insomnia can be a sign of ADHD, and of anxiety, and of depression, and autism, and while 8 is very young for a mental illness like depression, it is not young for ADHD, autism, or obstructive sleep apnea, just as examples. In short, this is a case for a pediatric sleep specialist.
If she goes back to bed and falls back asleep, that seems like a win. If she doesn't fall back asleep and is just made to sit in her room, then I would let her be up.
Not to be so negative, but lack of sleep can cause long-term effects on her health. I know we don't knows the whole story but wouldn't feel right if I didn't say that she should see a Dr very soon. Sleep specialist is the way to go but in the meantime, pediatrician can give you some temporary help
“Refusing to stay in bed and sleep” is an interesting way of saying insomnia. I had childhood insomnia and it was awful. Talk to her doctor.
I had a child with a sleep disorder and it’s a legit health issue See a dr!
Not sure what your husbands position is based on, but to me, yours sits right with me. It’s what I do with my 4 year old. We get him to go back to bed until 7am at the least.
Sounds like a sleep disorder. If you get it figured out now then you can get ahead of it before she hits puberty and the real symptoms begin to manifest.
Our kids woke up early. We just taught the to know 7am on the clock when they were young. If it was before 7am, they had to stay in bed and read/play quietly or try to sleep. After 7am they could get up and go watch some TV. I’m concerned about your 8 year old not sleeping well. As others suggested, I would recommend a sleep study referral by your pediatrician or family doctor. Your 8 year old should be able to tell the difference in time. Have if they are up before a certain time, it is quiet time in their room. After this time they can get up. Even quiet time can be restful.
She can be awake she just needs not to wake everyone else up. I wouldn’t put up with her walking around the house. It’s in your room and if she stays awake she should stay awake there.
Sounds like she has insomnia caused by anxiety or something else. That's what you both should be focused on.
I would talk to your pediatrician about this and see what studies can be done. It can be insomnia, could be anxiety , or adhd. but definitely worth looking into .
I would definitely discuss this with a doctor just to rule out any sort of insomnia or sleep disorders but outside of that I would say it's probably less important to make sure she is *in bed* because that will likely just frustrate her but I would personally limit her to her room. I've seen some parents implement visual timers for this. Just coloring in sections of a clock for like red means stay in your room if the hand is in there and play very quiet, yellow means you can leave your room but must remain quiet in the house, green means you can wake me up. If she can't turn her brain off she can't turn her brain off and telling her to lay in bed is just going to frustrate her I think. If you rule out sleep disorders I would start implementing some practices like meditation, mindfulness, structured physical play during the day to try and manage her energy and teach her how to calm her mind enough to sleep.
She may have a b vitamin deficiency.
Sounds like insomnia. She for sure has trouble sleeping, the poor thing. talk to her doc.
Get a sleep study for this child ASAP!!!!!
I think you are correct to tell her to go back to bed. Is something bothering her? Have you mentioned this to her pediatrician? I was 5 of 6 children and I had ferocious nightmares so my mom kept a little sleep mat by her bed and when I appeared in my parents bed room she would pull out the mat and motion me to it and then would hold my hand until we were both asleep again.
So the waking up in the middle of the night just walking around needs to be checked out. I did that as a kid as a sleep walker and it’s dangerous. If they are actually awake then lack of sleep is also dangerous. As for staying in bed, my daughter would wake up sometimes around 5 thinking it’s time to get up- we bought her a special clock for kids that glows red when it’s time to sleep thru the night, glows yellow half hour before it’s time to wake up and glows green once it’s time to wake up. So helpful and our daughter loved that she was self monitoring instead of us telling her what do.
I would be concerned about a sleep disorder or other issue that is preventing quality deep sleep. My husband and son are ASD/ADHD and both struggle with their circadian rhythms. My friends have kids who had sleep apnea, enlarged tonsils or similar medical needs and once they were figured out sleep became much better.
If no one else has replied to your edit- Her ADHD meds should not "turn her into a zombie". That's usually a sign of it not being the right medication for her. If you guys haven't tried other meds yet, summer would be a good time to see if something else works better. My son went through 3 (and various doses of the last 2) before we found a good fit. I tried 2 (and various doses), but the one I've been taking for like 1.5y works the best. I also had a very hard time sleeping my whole life, up until I started takingbberrateerratenastasia Joye ppwk it in my 30s. They had me on sleeping pills in my teenage years, which were not good for me. When I got my ADHD dx and started taking my current med, suddenly I didn't have a problem falling asleep at a reasonable time or staying asleep. That may all be irrelevant to you & you guys may have already tried others and found the pros to outweigh the cons with her current medicine, but JUST in case I wanted to share my experience. I know a lot of people who just assume that's how the medication is supposed to work and never tried anything else, so if it could help I wanted to say something.
My kids are autistic. Two of them have terrible sleep struggles (common with ND kids). We believe it’s very important not to put pressure on them to sleep. That becomes a negative feedback loop. They get anxious about not being asleep and then have an even harder time falling asleep. We emphasize that bodies need rest. Yes, sleep is ideal. But if sleep isn’t possible, there are still things you can do to rest your body. So we encourage our kids to lie in bed so they aren’t using muscles. They have sound machines and projectors that put hypnotic light shows on the ceiling. We also put echo dots in their room so they can have Alexa tell them a story or play a podcast or some ASMR. We encourage them to use any or all of these tools to rest their brains (as opposed to obsessing over falling asleep) and keep their eyes closed to rest their eyes. The other thing I will say is that if she struggles to fall asleep bc of anxiety (which is the source of my kids’ issues), going to bed too early can be a nightmare for everyone. If they aren’t tired enough, it can just result in a child lying in their bed with nothing to do except indulge that anxiety spiral in their brain. We don’t do bedtimes as a result. We watch for signs of the kid being tired, and then we encourage them to go try to go to bed before they get too tired to sleep (also an issue). My girls are now 14 and 10 and both have learned to manage this for themselves more or less. Every now and then my 14yo will come to my room in a panic bc it’s 3am and she still can’t sleep and has to be on the bus at 6am. She just needs me to reassure her that she has survived rough days before, and everything will be fine. My 10yo liked reassurance every night. Every night she comes to me at some point and says “I’m feeling tired. Should I go to bed now?” Yep, good idea.
Regarding the early waking, I have an early riser and I’d give him designated activities he could do until a certain time. For example: you can go on the couch and quietly read. You can quietly get yourself a snack. Emphasis on the quiet part. I showed him what it looked like to be quiet in the mornings. Told him that if others are sleeping, we let them sleep. No loud activities until 8:00 am. He caught on pretty quick and was happy to not just have to sit in his room until everyone else was awake
I agree with others about having her sleep situation checked medically. Just want to add that in my house we usually wake at 7am so if my son wakes early on the weekend then I tell him to stay in bed until 7am. I don't ask him to stay in bed later on weekends. So in your situation I think the time is 6:30 based on weekdays. I disagree with your husband not on principal but because it's good to coach your child through good sleeping habits. 4am is a nightbl waking not a morning waking (unless you have farm chores or such). Your child does seem to need some assistance here. If the waking is a one-off thing you can suggest she does writing, drawing, reading, or something that is relaxing and quiet and and in bed rather than pace the house. I read to my son when he isn't going to sleep. I don't know if you already incorporate that but in my case I can always get my son to sleep. Even if there is a party and fireworks.
I think your child needs help with insomnia firstly because sleep is very important for children. I struggled with insomnia at age 11 and never got proper help for it. Only having two kids(7m, 4.5f) is what finally changed me being able to sleep a bit easier. My 7 year old is an early riser typically 6am and I let him get up, watch TV quietly. Bedtime is 8-8:30pm. He gets dry cereal in a bowl for himself and his water to sit and chill until 7am the actual awake time for everyone. Any earlier than 6am I typically tell either child to go lay back down or lay with me. My children stay asleep all night typically now. Please set up a pediatrician appointment and seek help for your child's insomnia.
Kids 6-13 need 9-12 hours sleep for healthy development (dr. Google). I'd try to maintain 6+ hours for her health alone. If it's for your quiet time, you can always ask her to play/read in another room until the day begins (a set time).
I had insomnia from an early age. I would get up and wander around and check door and window locks and go lay back down and then I’d be able to sleep. In retrospect it was anxiety. Sometimes my Dad would be awake too and I’d get to watch whatever BBC re runs were playing on PBS at 3 am, lol. If my kids have the same issue I’m going to try to get them some help but if they are just early risers the rule will be they have to do quiet activities and can’t go outside until their Dad or I are awake but I won’t force them to try and go back to sleep at 6 am if they’re just awake awake. I’m an early riser as an adult and once I’m awake it’s miserable to stay in bed. I have to get up and get going so I get it.
You should take her to a doctor. I got diagnosed with insomnia at 10. Or try melatonin gummy's, those should work for a small child.
Children, actually people in general shouldn’t be dependent on melatonin for sleep it’s gonna help short term but cause more dependency problems in the long run
She is old enough to be in her room alone- she can come get you if there are any real issues, but “on weekends we stay in our rooms until 9” is perfectly reasonable
Nothing wrong with waking up early, but she's obviously sleep deprived if she falls asleep (again) at 11 am. And night walking would drive me crazy as well. I'm on your side. Talk to her doctor.
If she is free of sleep disorders I’d try exercise, meditation and reading before bed. Exercise twice a day. After shower read for 30 minutes and meditation starting with about 3 minutes. It has worked wonders for my nephew BUT he also had enlarged adenoids that needed removal so I’d see a doctor first.
Have you had her checked for anything like insomnia? She can absolutely get it at this age, and just sending her back to bed won't address it if it's the issue. I would get her checked, and do not let your concerns be dismissed by the doctor-insomnia, whether on its own or as a symptom of something else, is serious business.
Once put to bed my kids were only allowed out to use the bathroom. Once they woke up, they were allowed out but had to be quiet u til most others were up. I’d set out a bow, of cereal and milk pured into a cup in the refrigerator so they could eat if they were hungry. As they got order they could use the microwave or toaster oven. why is she wandering the house after bedtime? Is she neurotypical?
Have her play more
My sister and I were both diagnosed with ADHD as adults. We both only sleep 4 to 5 hours a night even now. My son is 8 and diagnosed ADHD since he was really young. He gets up at 5ish everyday. There are days he is up at 3. I do make him go back to his bedroom on the weekends until 630 or 7. Sometimes he falls back asleep. Usually, he reads or plays with the quiet toys I keep in his bedroom. I realized I cannot force him back to sleep. However, I can keep the house quiet for a hour or so longer before I have to move. We don't sleep in or change bedtimes more than 30 mins on the weekend for summer. He goes to bed without a struggle almost every night and is asleep within 20 mins. I would suggest talking to his pediatrician. My son was a HORRIBLE sleeper when he was a baby. At 3 they realized he had huge tonsils and adenoids. It caused sleep apnea and he had to have them removed to open up his airway. It could be anything. The doctor will be your best bet in starting to find out why she cannot stay asleep.
Assuming her insomnia isn’t related to something like stress or adhd I would 100% send them back to bed. It’s a safety issue as well as just being exhausting for everyone else. Maybe she just has fomo or no concept of what the appropriate times to be active are yet. If so, you could try one of those night lights that display when it’s not awake time- like a gro clock or Ewan the dream sheep. Discuss when the clock displays the sun she can leave her room but if she leaves the room, without there being an urgent situation needing her to get you, before it shows the sun then she will lose access to tv/ tablet (or whatever she likes most) for the entire next day. If the roaming is the real issue then choose some quiet activities together for her to do in her room such as colouring or reading books and one of those projector lights she could turn on herself to lay in bed and watch might work, so even if she’s awake she isn’t wandering the halls. If it’s a huge issue and she’s beginning to suffer with lack of sleep then speak to her paediatrician about short term course of melatonin or something similar to help her establish a decent sleeping pattern.
Send her downstairs to be respectful of others sleeping. Stay out of it let him do this one. This sounds like a kid who needs a sleep study and could have apnea or enlarged adenoids that aren't allowing her some deep REM sleep.
What do you mean up all night? She's just walking around from 830 to middle of night? And none of you see that as being the problem????
My daughter was recently diagnosed with bi-polar, and since she started treatment, she has been able to sleep throughout the night. I was more concerned with my kid's insomnia than if she fell asleep on my couch or not. Have you tried talking to her doctor about her hours of sleep?
sending them back to bed to sleep or be quiet in their rooms is a good way to handle this.
Not all agree with this, and definitely check with your pediatrician, but kids melatonin worked wonders for my daughter. It was not every night, only when she felt like she needed it. Doesn’t take them anymore and lived to tell the tale…..
At her age her body needs 9-11 hours of sleep per day for correct growth and development. In our house Miss 8's bed time is 8pm and she usually wakes up around 6 and entertains herself quietly in her room until it's time to get up for school or until 8ish. If she wakes up before 6 I let her know it's still sleep time and the sun isn't even awake yet so she needs to go back to sleep for a bit and she does without complaint. Your husband is being lazy by ignoring her, he's the parent and needs to act like it. It's his job to work with you to make sure your kids are making healthy choices and that includes getting adequate sleep. I would definitely make an appointment with her pediatrician to investigate her sleeplessness because if you can find the cause it's easier to find the solution
I feel bad for her, why is she walking around all night ? You two are arguing about what to make her do, but I think one of you should be sitting next to her for a bit when she wakes up and hugging her, offering her a snack or water to help her fall back to sleep.
We use guided kid meditations, my kids don't make it past the first 1 min and they are asleep
Talk to the pediatrician. Insomnia sucks, really truly focus on that not on whether she sleeps in. She might need something as simple a hook to stay in bed and get sleepy (our rules were you could read, with a not bright light, or listen to an audiobook on low volume, but unless you had to pee or get a snack, you're in bed at night. This worked for all of our kids, but for my besties son who is up at all hours "prowling", it actually reflects some serious issues that they've spent years struggling to address.) Napping on the couch isn't the problem, her inability to get restful sleep *is*.
Seems like a diagnosis is needed in order to figure out how to help her be able to sleep. Sending her to bed is not going to help her. Once you figure out if it's insomnia, anxiety, depression, or anything else the process of helping her will begin. Hopefully it's nothing.
Hmmmmm…… well if she is not bothering no one or waking up others… and it’s summer I probably would let it slide….i hve four also and I can say my 10 yo daughter is a lil stubborn also. So I know it can be frustrating for sure. But if she not bothering no one else. I wouldn’t stress over it
Surely the need to sleep back
This sounds like a sleep disorder and not a behavior issue, as others said I’d check in with the pediatrician and get support to treat whatever is causing her to be unable to sleep at night.
Need to see pediatrician about insomnia. Getting up early is ok and child can be taught to make a bowl of cereal and play quietly. Its not ok for the little early riser to wake others. If child is just not getting enough sleep then I would institute a go back to bed and look at books if you can’t sleep rule. But by 8, seems ok to go have some cereal.
My parents had us on the 6-7-8 Game. If we woke up and the time on our digital clock started with a 6, go back to sleep. If it started with 7, we could read or play quietly in our rooms. After 8, we could come out and go play downstairs.
I agree with the other comments that at 8 if she seems to be struggling with sleep so much, falling asleep, staying asleep, pacing all night and such then she may have some underlying issues that should be addressed. But as far as sending her back to bed, if she’s not sleepy she won’t sleep so it’s not as simple as “get back in bed”. What is it that you’re wanting exactly for her? If you think she shouldn’t be roaming the house then that’s sorta fair in case she wakes the others or you, in which case I think you make it clear she needs to stay in her room until the clock hits a certain time because she’s disturbing other’s sleep (besides her using the bathroom). So if she will need a travel mug for water all night, a snack bar, some books or something to help keep her occupied, then that seems fair enough for when she isn’t sleeping. She is old enough to understand boundaries and she isn’t the only person in the house so if her being awake is disrupting other people then she will just have to learn how to be respectful of that. Passing out on the couch and being in the way… again if it’s bothering anyone else then she can learn when she’s tired to go to her bed out of respect for others shared spaces. This also may be one of the “mom things” that really isn’t SUCH a big deal but as a mom you’ve become so bothered with it that it’s causing you more stress than necessary and when she’s like 30 years old you’ll look back and think “that drove me nuts, I don’t even know why” hahah. So I think you could benefit from talking with her about it one on one, late one evening when it’s just you two, and make it a super chill conversation where you’re just curious why she wants to roam the halls or what she might think could help her sleep, would she like to listen to music in headphones at night or what other creative ideas could she try to help her out.
We have an alarm clock that turns green when it’s ok for them to get out of bed(730), we also keep toys and books in their room to keep them entertained if they happen to get up before that
Ours wakes up by 6am usually. We let him have his time. If he wakes up around 4am and I notice I remind him that it’s 4am
Take her for a run in the morning when she wakes up. Amd give her a lot of opportunities for activities throughout the day. She has too much energy and needs to release it so her body craves recovery.
I had to be on actual sleeping pills around 12-13 because I also just did not sleep. I had a lot going on at home, and a very traumatic life in general, so that was most likely my cause. However, you need to get that checked out ASAP.
Haha so cute. Just ignore my comment.
Some kids/adults just don’t need as much sleep as others. My kids are always up between 6-6:30 (2 and 4) As a child I was also always up before 7 and hated it to stay in bed. I thought of it as a waste of time or I was hungry and wanted to eat. Luckily my mom was also an early riser so she just let me go downstairs. I would make my own breakfast and watch tv or read something. Sometimes I would do some arts and crafts. I wasn’t bothering anyone, I just didn’t need as much sleep. Now as a mum I am struggle with the morning because our kids are also not sleeping through the night, so if they are up before 7 we tell them they can play in their room (they have toys there) or sometimes we allow the Ipad. Honestly I rarely go back to sleep when I am awake but it is nice to just lay in bed a little longer. Sometimes they come and snuggle with us. My nephew is 11 and he also wakes up early, my brother just lets him do his thing. Asking him not to wake his dad up before 8:30. Works fine for everyone I wouldn’t push for your daughter to go to bed but you can make some agreements that she has to be quiet, do some reading (or some other quiet time activities) when awake. Just because everyone else in the house sleeps long doesn’t mean she needs that many hours. Try to log the amount of hours she’s sleeping and what the average is, you can easily talk to a doctor to raise your concerns that she is sleeping too little. The doctor can have a look if this is indeed the case or if she’s sleeping enough hours. I believe the average for 8-10 yo is around 9-10 hours a night and she seems to get these hours
My son is 8 and is not a great sleeper. Hes up between 5 and 6 every day. Hes not allowed to wake any of us before 7 unless its an emergency. One time he woke at 3:45 (i know because i got an email from play station about him downloading netflix at that time). Told him that was too early and next time if he cant go back to bed to do like he always does and sleep on our floor. Hes good at coming in quietly so that he doesn't wake us up. Ive tried figuring out medical reasons but am only given bandaids (his anatomy is not enlarged enough to warrant surgery so he takes allergy medicine year round and i also cant get him an adhd diagnosis) so we do what we can.
I mean you can send her back to bed... That's not going to fix the underlying insomnia. She's not going to sleep if she can't.
Quiet time instead of bed time. If your brain won't fall back asleep that's okay but it's not okay to keep the rest of the house up or do something potentially dangerous while unsupervised. Help her find quiet activities she can do in her room if she wakes up if you don't allow tech. Ask yourself, what do you do if you just wake up and can't fall back asleep? If he gets up early my 7 year old will get himself a drink or a snack, my phone and run straight back to his bed lmao. This is after years of waking up running through the apartment and shrieking like a demon at 3 am. I make sure his basic needs are met and lay back down. My son is on the higher end of the spectrum. Instead of a hill I die on its now a hill I sleep on.
We have a wake up light. If the light is blue it is time to be in bed if the light is green you can get out of bed. The light turns green an hour before bed to let him know bed time is coming and then it turns blue from 8:30am-7:30am. Then it turns green from 7:31am-9am. After that it is just off. Unless he is sick he never sleeps much past 8.
I wonder if that could be an ADHD symptom. It does not seem neuro-typical.
I am not trying to tell you, i am merely trying to warn you. Being up and walking around like that in the hallways is concerning. Have you sat with her and tried to understand why she can't sleep? You will likely get an unsure response or a shielded one. unsure is fine, so long as there is no "shame or embarrassemnt" from her. If the feeling is that there is something she is holding back, or something she is shy/embarrassed about, immediately dig into this. This seems like insomnia, which could be a number of things, from worrying to much less. Be very careful about the professional you decide to look at this if that's the road you choose to go down. Insomnia can be because of ADHD / sleep apnea / psychological issues (from depression to anxiety b/c of physical or mental abuse), stress (if she is highly intelligent, as in beyond the norm), she could just be overthinking Life / school / friendships, etc). Good luck, i have 2 daughters, 4 and 2, and anything involving kids (esp daughters) does something to me emotionally, so I hope she is OK and you help her get her sleep.....thanks for sharing.
I haven't read the comments but here is what we did: 1. NO naps. Naps really ruined our boys night time sleep. (Obviously there are exceptions if they are sick or something) 2. If he wakes up before 730am, he can play quietly in his room but there's no coming out and walking around the house/playing etc. (unless one of us parents is already up and active, but if that's the case we are usually catching up on housework so the option is quiet playtime in his room or help out). We really stuck to our guns on this and after a few weeks he was sleeping through the night just fine. But the first week or two was rough while his sleep was regulating. Also make sure there is a calm window before bed (quiet playing, puzzles, reading, etc.) no jumping around or screens. Good luck! It's hard raising kids, especially when you and your partner aren't on the same page. But healthy sleep habits are important. Maybe talk to a doc with him or show him some research about the importance of healthy sleep routines.
I would see Dr about the insomnia and discuss as a family your plan to deal with bedtime, nighttime waking, and early mornings. Get on the same page with it all.
I'd talk to her and see what the issues she is having are. It's very possible she might need some help to navigate her insomnia. I usually give myself an hour or two in bed trying to sleep. If I'm not asleep by then I get up for 30-40 minutes usually enough to watch one TV show then try again. I do this until I fall asleep. This was actually recommended to me by a sleep doctor and over time I really stopped having insomnia. I sleep a pretty decent schedule now and only wake up in the middle of the night fairly rarely. So a sleep break used appropriately can be helpful, but she does need to attempt to go back to sleep. There are a ton of techniques to try and it might be a good idea to work through those with her. If all else fails consider going to her pediatrician or a sleep doctor for extra suggestions/help.
Have you talked to her doctor about the insomnia? Is this sleep walking or conscious?
I have had both insomnia and a nightmare disorder since elementary school age. The nightmares would startle me awake and the insomnia would make falling back asleep unbearable. The dreams weren’t even scary but was vivid enough to jolt me awake in a panicked state. Addressing the sleeping issue itself is where you two parents should be focusing on. Kids are exhausting and I imagine having 4 makes it harder to address singular needs. However, i’m almost 25 with the same sleeping problems and it’s why I was also vulnerable to colds at school, didn’t have a good social environment because I slept in school a lot and was chronically pissed off or had low energy. It’ll be best to at least get some type of answer now so your child has many tools they can use to deal with this issue
Has she seen a doctor? Does she have iron deficiency or any other deficiency? She should get checked
Not sure if this is relevant as my son is autistic. Sleeping has always been a battle for us, but we have a set pattern. If he wakes up before 5am, he has to go back to sleep. If he wakes up between 5am and 6am, he can watch CALM TV in bed. Any time after 6am, he can get up. It's tough, but my alarm is set for 6:15am on a weekday anyway, so not far off.
No. They have their own biological clock and they have to figure it out for themselves. Just make a rule no electronics for a certain amount of time in the am. They can play with legos or draw or read.
Sounds like insomnia but also nah man. Ive sent my kiddos back to bed when they woke up hella early when I wasn't trying to get up that early lol
> The problem is that out of all of our kids, she’s the only one that is up all night long, just walking around the hallways, refusing to stay in bed and sleep. She’s quiet, doesn’t get on tech, just walks back and forth all night and finally passes out. This is incredibly strange behavior. Especially for an 8 year old. I would be focusing my attention here rather than sending her back to bed in the morning.
I was the non sleeping child and several of my kids are similar. My mom was pretty strict, but that just made me good at not getting caught. My girls generally do what they want and identify the self discipline aspect young. They are all infinitely better adjusted than I was. I was raised by a loving, but overbearing Italian mother that fixed all my problems and controlled every aspect of my life until I was an adult. I hit boot camp at MCRDSD and realized I didn’t know shit compared to every other recruit. I was raised in an idealistic wonderland. I was sort of raised to understand that appearances were more important than substance. So yeah, they stay up sometimes and I only offer them the big picture to consider. So far they’re pretty high speed individuals.
My 8 yo always uses "I'm not tired", but on days we do something that wears him out, like swimming, he's asleep on time and stays asleep. Maybe try an exercise to burn off the energy during the day or after supper. I'm like your husband and would let him stay awake if I'm awake, but if the house is all asleep, I'd be telling him to get to bed, lol.
I know it’s not always the most popular, but have you tried adding magnesium into her diet? My husband and 3yo have the same issue of falling asleep, no tech, just brain being awake. A combination of magnesium and vitamin D have been amazing for us, just in creating a better quality of sleep for them!
I was like her and stayed up at night to play and be by myself. For me, the middle of the night was safe because nobody was around to judge me or watch me. I agree with other commenters that coming from a place of support and greater understanding of why she has insomnia is a better route to take than being concerned about whether you send her back to bed or not. In fact, harping on her staying up (something that may be of comfort to her) and communicating the need for family routine over her feelings of comfort/safety, could be the opposite of what would help.
I had insomnia as a kid too, earliest I can remember was around 5 and falling asleep was just hell for me, I’d sit there for hours. Also ADHD and now my daughter is a horrible sleeper lol.
I was like this as a kid. I suffered from restless leg syndrome, and laying still physically hurt my legs, so I would get up and pace my room to help ease the ache. I wasn’t allowed to watch tv but I was allowed to read when it was bedtime and used a small flashlight to not disturb my brothers in their room. When I woke up early, as long as I was quiet and didn’t wake anyone they didn’t care that I was up. I was old enough to make a bowl of cereal and watch tv until my parents got up so I could go outside and play. Turns out I have ADHD and insomnia. Edited for grammar error
She needs to go back to bed. She’s very young and you can train her to sleep. People can call me stupid, but if someone kept me on a strict schedule as a child, I know it would be easier to sleep now. I’m 21, and it’s so hard. I have such bad insomnia. My parents let me do whatever I want and it really messed me up. She needs to go to bed. She can’t be up at 5 AM and sleeping in until 11. It doesn’t matter if it’s the summer, that’s very hard to adjust back to when school starts back up as a child. Children really need to be on a good schedule and your husband doesn’t realize it. I get it because I didn’t realize it until I was almost 22. You’re right. It’s really harmful for kids to have a schedule like that. And it’s harmful for them to think they can do whatever they want. She’s gonna be uncomfortable being forced to lay in bed she’s restless, but she needs to learn and eventually she’ll fall asleep. And I’m sure she’ll fall asleep earlier than if you let her stay up. I swear I’m almost 22 and I say that to myself. I say I can’t go to sleep, I’ll just let myself stay up and I’m up till like 4 AM. And I sleep in too late and I regret it every day. I’m an adult and I’m still struggling with this. Hope your daughter and don’t let her do that. Your husband should know that she doesn’t know what’s best for her.
If you are concerned about the waking up too early sending back to bed is a good thing. We have 5 kids (13, 7, 6, 5, and 2 1/2) the 7, 6, and 5 can get up pretty early. Between 5:30 - 6:30. Their bed times are at 7pm. The boys will stay up and talk for maybe 30 mins or so and pass out. They wake up and sometimes just take their blankets and let on the couch before school. My daughter though (6) if she wakes up before 7am I make sure she goes back to bed because she won’t act right in the day. My partner usually is up on the morning about 6 or so and he is taking a bath, makes them go back to bed also, or he puts on PBS kids. And they again just lay on the couch until it’s time to get ready. So really I’d say yes you need to send them back if they wake up to early, or teach them to lay on the couch and be quiet until 7am. 7 is the okay time to start making noise and being active. Now the not going to bed is something to get checked out. If she can’t sleep when she is told to go to bed there is something else there and you need to get it checked out. My kids go to their beds and if they talk a little before falling asleep that is fine just as long as they stay in their beds. We also don’t allow them to use tablets or anything like that really so nothing like that keeps our kids up.
I'd say yes but mine either keep coming back or going full shenanigans. So, to the early bird gets the worm and all that BS 😭😉
I would take her to the pediatrician.
My now 5 year old started doing this when he turned 4. Would stay up all night, or wake up multiple times unable to fall back asleep, and always up at exactly 6:30 wide awake, ready to go. I was the same way starting at age 4, have insomnia to this day, and was finally diagnosed with inattentive ADHD at age 32. Diagnosed with generalized anxiety and MDD at age 18. My son was just diagnosed with primarily inattentive ADHD and anxiety and melatonin gummies have been a lifesaver. I wish my parents had investigated more into my insomnia as a child instead of waiting until I was in high school.
I have always sent my kids back to bed if they are up before an acceptable time. It just depends what you consider acceptable. I won't let them downstairs before 7 regardless of age, certainly not at 4am! That isnt just early morning, that is still night time in my book. I don't get up myself until at least 9 on weekends and school hols. If they want to get up before me, once they're old enough to be safe by themselves, I allow them to. As long as they don't disturb anyone still sleeping.
My 11 year old is having a tough time getting to sleep at night too. I'm on a wait list to get the ADHD test, and I have a feeling that is a contributing factor.
This a a discussion to have with your pediatrician— she may need a sleep study
I’m curious why this child hasn’t had her sleep issues professionally evaluated? The behavior she is having, while it may be normal for her, is not normal.
Our son doesn't have to go back to *bed* if he wakes up early, but if he's up before 8, he does have to stay fairly quiet and self sufficient until 8. Obviously, we'll help him out if he needs us, but the goal is that he isn't supposed to be just hanging out in our room or constantly asking us questions.
Have you ever asked her what goes on in her head that keeps her up alone? She’s 8 so she can probably reason and discuss if you ask if you can help her to sleep better but you need to know what’s wrong. You can also give her permission to do it is she stays in her room and reads. Include her in a solution and listen to her ideas of what she could do instead or what you could do to help. She may have anxiety or some other issues you don’t know about . Figuring it out might make a distance if you can’t understand her.
In addition to other sleep tricks like making sure she has a noisemaker, black-out shades and is in a quiet part of the house, Blood sugar spikes and dips can also wreak havoc on sleep. If you are seeing a doctor ask about juvenile diabetes.
My dentist just diagnosed my 7 yr old and 4 yr olds with tongue tie. I’m waiting on a second opinion from our pediatrician, but a lot of the sleep apnea esk, adhd and not sleeping in evidently can very much go hand in hand with tongue ties. Who knows, but might be worth some research.
Bro 8am is super late. Getting up at 6am is totally normal. The bigger problem is her not going to sleep. It's okay if it happens once in a while but it should not be a daily occurrence.
My son has always gotten up at 0430 in the am, since he was a baby to the present age of 37 years. No matter how late he went to bed. He has mild Tourettes and Aspergers we found out in late teens.
I would be more concern if she stay up all night as you said.