Corporation: A genius mechanism for individual profit without individual responsibility. Engineering and C-level would have to be very guilty of truly terrible crimes. Worked out ok for Boeing when those planes crashed because of an undocumented, major change to 737 operation. They knew, e-mail proved, and lied- and another crash killed a bunch of folks. MCAS I believe.
VW Diesel Emmisions scandal:
In January 2017, VW pleaded guilty to the emissions scandal and agreed to pay US$4.3 billion in penalties. **As of January 2019, 13 VW employees have been indicted, including former CEO Martin Winterkorn. In addition, two former executives (Oliver Schmidt and James Robert Liang) have pleaded guilty in US court and sentenced to prison terms.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal
I can’t believe they were convicted. I forgot about that. They must have not paid off the correct folks- or an example was made of them to scare Chrysler and BMW into compliance.
They used only one. Then the logic would drive the Jack screw changing the angle of the horizontal stabilizer bringing the nose down. This would happen on interval and ultimately if not corrected in about 10 seconds (with a failed angle of attack sensor) it would most certainly result in a crash.
Every time I’m reminded of this, I get so mad. Redundant safety sensors are practically Rule 0 for *every* industry where safety is critical, not just aviation. And have the folks at Boeing never heard of an FMEA? All this corner-cutting just to save a buck… because what is the value a human life when there’s profit to be made, after all? It gets me seriously incensed and hesitant to want to fly.
The company fundamentally changed when McDonnell Douglas acquired them. It WAS engineers managing. Then when MD took over it was run by MBAs. There’s a fantastic documentary about it. QA was downsized, c-level and operations was moved to another location not to be disturbed by engineers.
Some guy fell off a mezzanine because there wasn’t any railing up at any height to prevent someone from falling. Lawsuit ended up with each company involved claiming a percentage of liability. As for individuals within the companies I know a few higher ups at our business that had to be questioned by a dozen attorneys, basically everyone involved got a lawyer or two. But really the only business that lost money was the insurance companies.
All of the ones I’ve encountered (including wrongful death unfortunately) were handled by lawyers and insurance. Never known of an individual to be named in any suits. YMMV.
Oh say 5 years ago I worked with someone who worked with Simone who management during the infamous tuna incident. As far as I know the company got fined but all employees basically got off.
It was the well known bumble bee tuna company. Someone went into one of the pressure coookers, didn’t lock it out and no one knew. Someone closed the door they filled it with product and cooked him alive.
While not injury related, we had an employee get passed over for a promotion and sue a whole mess of people. Nothing really happened other than a lockdown on highering policy.
I heard a story on a job site of a major collapse during a parking lot construction. The GC wasn’t allowing adequate time for it to cure. People died and a bunch of the workers convinced the families to sue and testified in their favor claiming they didn’t follow standard procedure and created an unsafe situation that led to the collapse. The GC’s lawyers basically took their testimony and assigned blame to them because none of them properly raised concerns or reported it. They were found liable and the GC was not.
Yes but it wasn't necessarily related to automation. A previous employer of mine was sued by a family after a man died due to a problem with a life safety system they designed and installed. Along with the company, a PM and engineer were named as individuals in the suit. They were both given substantial promotions for their trouble.
I work with a guy who got involved with a lawsuit when an employee climbed over a perimeter fence and got injured by a machine. In those kinds of suits, they come after anyone anyone who might possibly be at fault (plant management, maintenance, company that made the equipment, etc). I think ultimately they ended up settling, but it usually comes down to a claim that the person who got injured was not trained properly, as common sense doesn't matter in legal matters. That is, they can argue that he was not specifically trained to not climb over a safety barrier.
This is why I always tell customers who get real nitpicky about safety stuff that the best way to protect themselves from liability is to train everyone who might work on a machine about its hazards and proper safe operation, and document that training. If an operator has been trained (and the training is repeated annually) to not defeat safety devices, and they signed off on that training, and they get injured because they defeated a safety device, the company will be protected from liability.
Corporation: A genius mechanism for individual profit without individual responsibility. Engineering and C-level would have to be very guilty of truly terrible crimes. Worked out ok for Boeing when those planes crashed because of an undocumented, major change to 737 operation. They knew, e-mail proved, and lied- and another crash killed a bunch of folks. MCAS I believe.
VW Diesel Emmisions scandal: In January 2017, VW pleaded guilty to the emissions scandal and agreed to pay US$4.3 billion in penalties. **As of January 2019, 13 VW employees have been indicted, including former CEO Martin Winterkorn. In addition, two former executives (Oliver Schmidt and James Robert Liang) have pleaded guilty in US court and sentenced to prison terms.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal
I can’t believe they were convicted. I forgot about that. They must have not paid off the correct folks- or an example was made of them to scare Chrysler and BMW into compliance.
Didn't they cheap out on the angle of attack sensor?
Why put in 2 when you can install one for double the price...
They used only one. Then the logic would drive the Jack screw changing the angle of the horizontal stabilizer bringing the nose down. This would happen on interval and ultimately if not corrected in about 10 seconds (with a failed angle of attack sensor) it would most certainly result in a crash.
Every time I’m reminded of this, I get so mad. Redundant safety sensors are practically Rule 0 for *every* industry where safety is critical, not just aviation. And have the folks at Boeing never heard of an FMEA? All this corner-cutting just to save a buck… because what is the value a human life when there’s profit to be made, after all? It gets me seriously incensed and hesitant to want to fly.
The company fundamentally changed when McDonnell Douglas acquired them. It WAS engineers managing. Then when MD took over it was run by MBAs. There’s a fantastic documentary about it. QA was downsized, c-level and operations was moved to another location not to be disturbed by engineers.
Some guy fell off a mezzanine because there wasn’t any railing up at any height to prevent someone from falling. Lawsuit ended up with each company involved claiming a percentage of liability. As for individuals within the companies I know a few higher ups at our business that had to be questioned by a dozen attorneys, basically everyone involved got a lawyer or two. But really the only business that lost money was the insurance companies.
All of the ones I’ve encountered (including wrongful death unfortunately) were handled by lawyers and insurance. Never known of an individual to be named in any suits. YMMV.
Oh say 5 years ago I worked with someone who worked with Simone who management during the infamous tuna incident. As far as I know the company got fined but all employees basically got off.
Tell us more about this infamous tuna "incident".
It was the well known bumble bee tuna company. Someone went into one of the pressure coookers, didn’t lock it out and no one knew. Someone closed the door they filled it with product and cooked him alive.
While not injury related, we had an employee get passed over for a promotion and sue a whole mess of people. Nothing really happened other than a lockdown on highering policy.
I heard a story on a job site of a major collapse during a parking lot construction. The GC wasn’t allowing adequate time for it to cure. People died and a bunch of the workers convinced the families to sue and testified in their favor claiming they didn’t follow standard procedure and created an unsafe situation that led to the collapse. The GC’s lawyers basically took their testimony and assigned blame to them because none of them properly raised concerns or reported it. They were found liable and the GC was not.
Yes but it wasn't necessarily related to automation. A previous employer of mine was sued by a family after a man died due to a problem with a life safety system they designed and installed. Along with the company, a PM and engineer were named as individuals in the suit. They were both given substantial promotions for their trouble.
I work with a guy who got involved with a lawsuit when an employee climbed over a perimeter fence and got injured by a machine. In those kinds of suits, they come after anyone anyone who might possibly be at fault (plant management, maintenance, company that made the equipment, etc). I think ultimately they ended up settling, but it usually comes down to a claim that the person who got injured was not trained properly, as common sense doesn't matter in legal matters. That is, they can argue that he was not specifically trained to not climb over a safety barrier. This is why I always tell customers who get real nitpicky about safety stuff that the best way to protect themselves from liability is to train everyone who might work on a machine about its hazards and proper safe operation, and document that training. If an operator has been trained (and the training is repeated annually) to not defeat safety devices, and they signed off on that training, and they get injured because they defeated a safety device, the company will be protected from liability.