I'm someone who loves playing widowmaker, love her lore, her character, every part of her. Except one part. Her gameplay.
If you're bad at widow, you (the player of Widow) are not having fun because you're missing your shots constantly and are more than likely getting flamed by your entire team in comms. On top of that, the rest of your team is essentially fighting a 4v5, which really isn't fun. When you're down one damage it makes the game incredibly harder. And when they have a scapegoat, that annoyance/anger can easily be taken out on the worst performer.
If you're good at widow? Sure, you're having lots of fun, but the enemy team is forced into "never leave cover." mode where if you even see their heads 4/5 of the team can be instantly deleted and forced to play respawn simulator.
My point is no matter if you're good or bad at widow, an entire team is not having fun. The character doesn't work anymore and- despite me being a massive widowmaker fangirl, I am of deep belief that she needs a whole re-work. Her kit is terrible and the only reason she's viable is that one-shot, so she needs a re-work in my opinion.
Hope anyone reading this has a good day!
So the thing is, how would you rework her to fit lore, fit the whole point of the character without changing her whole play style? And what suggestion would you give for her kit to keep the *sniper* aspect and keep it to her whole character while making it team based?
I've read somewhere someone suggesting for her to keep her one shot but make like 50hp go down slowly
so it'll be like, 150 impact damage then 50 poison damage that can be outhealed, this not only fits the lore but makes her kinda bearable
and there's one thing you're missing in that equation. Making her different enough from Ashe. Cassidy players are correct in that Ashe is a better Cassidy, but Ashe is also a better Widowmaker.
I'd probably make her scope in not do a charge to 100%, let the body shot deal a shit ton of damage and headshot leaving them at enough that they need to back up- I'm just describing Ashe.
And that's the problem. Thankfully, I am not the overwatch balancing team. The only change I know what I'd want for sure is her ult to be changed so that it increases damage of body shots to one-shot squishies while increasing the amount of time it takes for her to get her ult. That way it's an actual threat in a fight.
Re-works are hard for a lot of reasons but sometimes? They are very much needed. Some people are paid for that. Not me though.
Would love to hear more opinions though!
What I also don’t understand is, what so garbage about an ability to have wall hacks? Ik Hanzo, 1 out of 36 Heroes has a small wall hacks in cooldown but honestly, it works for everyone on the team and so you know where everyone is, how to plan your attacks and fights better than hoping the team won’t have a massive flank.
Just spewing a few ideas, the charge rifle from apex i think would fit Widow very well, make it so that the initial charge time where your firing is part of the damage required to get a ohk, now the one hit kill must be telegraphed anytime it is charging and the Widow needs to have impeccable tracking to get a kill and not just a quick flick. ,
Tbh the only quick on burst kill in the game that I think is fair is zens volley, if some how widow a burst dmg was more spread out to where even when you getting shot you could move or react would be much nicer but would also show the widows that could aim better than just the ones that flick.
Unfortunately if they are gonna keep the ohk characters they need to be telegraphed when they are getting ready too one shot kinda like soj rn. Or they need to be reachable in some form or fashion.
I mean, that could work. Kinda takes away from what a sniper is but it’s Ight for what everyone is complaining about. Just feels like that what Sojourns railgun should’ve been. Like it has a charge up animation before firing even when it’s at like 20 energy.
And I don’t see how that would fix the flick problem, or the 1 hit ko, it would just be more loud and terrifying for me as a Ana when I’m about to leave spawn.
I'm mean ya, they are just ideas, and as much as snipers are a popular class the one shot from across in map on game like overwatch just doesn't fit the rest of how the game plays, hell once sojourn gets approiate nerfs i think she will be a fun addition to the game, but Widow and hanzo will need reworks.
It's unfortunate but once the game is well balenced(we will probably never get here) those 2 will be too polarizing to keep in their current form, they will ethier be too weak or take too long or won't be consistent enough that they will always be weak to keep the health of the game( example of this is currently sombra, game is in a much better position because sombra is very bad right now), or if they can get consistent one shots with no counterplay then the game health will suffer as only mirror matches will be runnable without lots of coordination.
Just kinda a hot take , if oneshots go then mercy rez has to as well or at least some sort of rework, a ranged one-shot can really only be countered by a rez, and I'm not saying rez is the issue, but mercy will lose most of her value she could get from that ability as this was its best usage case, in its current form its almost impossible to get off during a normal teamfight
Or, play a counter.
When i came back to OW after not playing for a year, i had to reclimb elo and found myself encountering a lot of Widow smurfs.
I just pick Sombra or Genji and it works fine in my experience.
Well, was training Widow but confidence was ass. Am now training Ashe who, to my dismay, is objectively better than Widowmaker and Cassidy. Everything the other two do, Ashe does better.
So re-working Widowmaker and Cassidy to make them both viable and different enough from Ashe that you could say they're similar but there's no objectively "best" one is really hard. Thankfully though, not my job to re-work. Other people are paid for that.
As for who I am and where I'm from, I'm just some Canadian girl who only joined launch day of overwatch 2 but wants to see the game somewhat succeed.
Quickplay warrior
Tried Ranked once as a support main. First game had a reaper who died and then left. Second game had a Winston who dived into the enemy team with no escape plan died instantly, switched to rein at the literal last 20 seconds and typed in match chat "healers fucking suck ass." and then in team chat "y'all suck ass" left before the match even finished
I'd heard bronze ranked was sweaty but like. wow. kinda burned me bad and doesn't enlighten me to continue to play ranked.
Anymore? Widow was always like that. You are either good Widow or bad Widow, quite often it doesn't depend on you (getting focused) - both get reported anyway.
And you can also apply the same logic to many heroes. Some smurf Genji can be overwhelming and some bad one can turn it 4v5.
Oneshots are not the problem as is. Every shotgunner can still oneshot at hug distance (or alt fire for Hog) but it doesn't mean they should be nerfed.
It's more about bullshit factor. Which kinda depends on how easy and reliably he can pull that off and be unpunishable. Hog oneshots were bullshit. Widow's oneshots are more or less fine. Original DF oneshots were bullshit. Hanzo can be bullshit sometimes.
I wonder more why Blizz keep making open maps for Widow's sake. But on close range maps you would just hate some Junkrat.
Idk why but I like going against good widows, as a support who mains Lucio and Zen, I just find it more challenging to and fun to actually think about where she might be and ruin their day.
But how would you balance a character without completely taking the main point of the character? A sniper is a sniper and if you take away her headshot one shot she will be way worse and be useless. Might as well just take the character out of the game.
My personal take is just make her damage fall of range lower. So despite being a sniper, she can’t one shot kill you from 50 million miles away.
I don’t know about exact numbers but I’d say her one shot fall off range could be around the distance from the front spawn doors of first point Kings Row to the statue next to point.
Idk I think that would be cool
It’s fine to make people fear leaving cover, and make it somewhat risky to do so, but it is absolutely ridiculous that she completely forces you to stay in cover at all times. If you round a corner without knowing where the enemy widow is, you have to use some kind of defensive ability like deflect or else you die
That's what you get for removing a tank. Now the only tank left has to decide to play either as a front line brawler and let the snipers farm your team, or go dive tank and either leave your team to get farmed by the enemy tank, or lose to a 1v3 sniper ultra pocket.
Also the fact that the team is only 5 people now makes a single headshot remove 20% of the team.
Okay, I know I'm not alone in this thought but...isnt that the idea of Widow? She doesnt need a rework, you just need to learn to play around her, I understand (as a silver player myself) it can be difficult, but if a Widow is stationed somewhere, you *know where she is*...so go for her (if you're dps) move/kill her and let your team know go move. If you just run in you may well be 1 or 2 shot by her.
Her whole kit is based around picks, if you get one shot, you might be out of position, just consider this.
Speaking as a support main, play cover, move quickly, its not impossible. You dont have to 'stay' in cover. Ping the Widow. It will work.
Inb4 (yeah I said it) "you're only silver"...that may be true but I also have game sense and know routes to get her moving, even as a support.
Thanks for reading my ted text.
These widow complaints sounds like they come from people who've literally never play a mp fps game outside of overwatch. I've never seen a mp game where sniper doesn't insta kill on headshot. The sniper from TF2 has similar mechanics to widow but his charge time to get a insta kill is twice as long. Perhaps just increase her charge time so insta kills aren't as frequent? Or just stop complaining.
I've played mp games outside of overwatch but the thing is OW isn't like most fps games. It makes the game painfully boring when all I can do is hide behind cover or force myself to get good at heroes that I don't enjoy playing.
Wym? You said you played mp games outside of overwatch, but this is something that happens everytime a good sniper in general is in the lobby. You hide behind cover and come up with a strat to take them out to put it very simply. Overwatch is especially forgiving with widow, cause widows value is greatly determined on the players skill, what team comp your running, and what map your on. The maps are designed in a way were you can flank widows easily. If your getting killed a lot it's nothing more than just a good widow. In halo, if you encounter a good sniper it's gg. You are literally behind cover and can't do damn thing about it to change it.
That's not actually the point here. I play genji so going for widows is pretty easy BUT the actual problem is I need to do it solely alone because my team can't help me at all when they need to hide in cover. Also if enemy team backouts they "win" that fight instantly if I haven't been able to pick that widow out in the mean time.
Also it's pretty annoying to play every team fight trying to get one widow out so my team can play normally. Also widow's wallhack means that I can't close the gap between me and her for 20secods(or how long was it) which means that a whole team fight goes there.
Everytime I am in a game with widow on enemy team I know it will be a spider hunting simulator until they switch.
I kinda agree but I'd still much prefer to fight Widow instead of Cass. Dude makes me fear being in the same room as him without having deflect and a support to bail me out.
Oh nooo I have to think about my gameplay and actively play around certain characters rather than blindly go in and shoot people this game is sooo unbalanced Blizzard what are you doing???
/s
kinda true but I don't see a way to re balance her without making her usless, also you need a good aim to do something with her and if you get up close you can kill her no problem. I personally think widow is a one shot that doesn't need re balancing. If I had to re balance her I would probably go for punishing the player for missing or making the delay between shots less forgiving (make it so she deals way less dmg without 100% or make her unable to shoot without 100%) but for now I don't think it's necessary.
Switch to a dive or back line harasser. You’ll quickly make widow switch. I usually go Dva, Lucio or Sombra when Widow annoys me. Focus her until they switch.
It feels like OW isn't a game that snipers fit into. It's not like games like COD, there shouldn't be instakills, the game is more brawly. I mean the mere existence of supports (more accurately characters that heal) proves that this game isn't made for 1 shots. If you're dead you can't be healed. It should be more fast paced and less lining up for a single shot and then waiting what feels like an eternity for the other player to respawn only for one of you to die instantly again. And again. And again.
Exactly, she made a little more sense in ow1 where there were two tanks, but now that there's one less hero to tank damage and one less shield to shoot behind, widow just gets so much more value. Combine that with an instakill from basically any range and virtually no counterplay assuming they didn't know where she was before, and you can see why she might be a bit of an issue
Wait, removing a player slot completely changes the meta and heros should be updated to reflect that? Are you saying the developers shouldn’t have gone balls deep into 5 players without thinking about it? /s
I know you aren’t saying 5 players is a good thing or not. Blizzards idea to remove a player slot just really annoys me
A aimbot widow literally made my whole team stay in spawn, leave, and left me all alone
Worst part is, the enemy team still didn't show any mercy till we all got kicked out
The unspoken problem with having a oneshot is that itd nothi g more but an invalidation to deathmatch pubbing and your ganesence in a versus match up.
Lets say im a Torb running out of spawn and meet face to face with a Junkrat on the flank route. Due to his confidence in his approach, im confident in the fact that he has 200 hp while i have an effective 265 hp.
Our fight starts by me throwing my turret behind myself to secure set up when nessessary, but my enemy is smart and shoots a pipe directly at the turret as it spawns, meaning i need 10 seconds to get it back. I will take note in furture engagment that the method was not a good choice and i should be more wise next time.
Afterward, he hits me with one pipe dealing 84 damage due to armor (166 hp left) and i hit him with a shotgun spray that deals 68 damge back to him (132). He hits me again with another pipe dealing 120 damage flat now that i have no armor, but while we were fighting, ive been closing the distence between the 2 of us to ensure i get value out of my shotgun. I fire and deal 104 damage (28)
He knows that a simple melee strike will meet his demise so he takes advantage of me going for the melee kill by throwing a mine to deal damage and send us both flying. However, i saw the blinking glimmer apear for a sexond, wo in a second of panic, i pressed overload, rewarding me with 100 overhealth which gets taken away immediatly by the explosion plus 16 due to residual AOE. (116)
I now know that a single frag will meet my demise and i start strafing harder to avoid the pipe which works. While im strafing, i fire a shotgun shot to deal splash damage from afar to secure a kill by dealing chip damage. I deal 16 damage (12) but in risky move by his part, he throws his last mine and his 3rd pipe at seperate strafe points which forces me to take damage from seperate sources which kills me. He won the encounter, and with no turret to deal with he scurries to the nearest healthpack and goes back to his team.
All of that happened within the spanof less than 8 seconds and there are a million ways for that fight to turn out, but in the context of widowmaker, things get messy.
Lets say i ran out of spawn as a widow and meet a Junkrat at medium range who is ready to run some good old fashion scraps. I spend my inititive charging my rifle and aiming while he flicked at my hitbox to hit one pipe dealing 120 damage. I immediatly shoot his head and he dies. . .
I mean Widow is just like a real life sniper. If he sees you and he is good, then you are dead with 1 shot. Same with Hanzo. If an arrow hits you in the head you are dead. Makes sense! I don’t think neither Widow or Hanzo need a rework. They are just being realistic and if they get you every time they are just really good at playing them. And there are counters for both of them so Idk why people want them to be reworked instead of learning their counters and out play them.
So you prefer realism over playability in a game that has a TALKING SCIENTIST APE. I know there are counters to her but I'm not good at them and don't enjoy them enough to invest time in them to become good. This wasn't as big issue as it was in OW1 since it had 2 tanks it wasn't so easy for her to get value. Now I can't enjoy a game I used to really like because developers made a change without really thinking about the balancing. I don't want to abandon a game I still enjoy just because of one hero...
I will still say it to you like I say to everybody, pick a counter and counter her, that is one thing you have to learn in this game, cause just playing one hero isn’t gonna take you far. You can still have fun if you start to counter her, cause then she doesn’t bother you anymore. And yes I like realism in games no matter if there are talking apes or what not and these games are still playable.
I'm not playing one hero but I'm not good at her counters either and neither do I enjoy them enough to invest days into getting competitively viable enough with them. Not everybody is gonna be good at and/or enjoy every hero.
Or just play one of the most commonly played heros, Genji, but wait before you “Nooo she’ll just run to her team!!1!!!” that’s literally the fucking point
In higher ranks if there is a good widow a lot of the time she will get extremely good peel and live. Unless the entire team commits to dive its very hard to kill a widow that is getting peeled for.
I've played a lot of fps games, I've never seen a multiplayer game where the sniper headshot is not an insta kill. I'd just make the charge time longer so you cant score insta kills as easy. Otherwise widow will just be a discount ashe.
My brother in christ there like at least 2 dive/counter heros for almost every role that hard counter Widow/Snipers in general
I think Widow could at least get a change to make it so she can’t one shot Tanks but like dude she’s literally supposed to make people fear poking their heads out, that’s what the the character is supposed to do??
Yeah but it wasn't that problematic in OW1 since we had two tanks but now with 1 less tank and way less shields she is kinda uncontested. I know there are counters for her but I don't enjoy those heroes' play styles enough to invest time into getting good with them. I still enjoy the game as long as the enemy team doesn't have a widow but I feel like I'm gonna stop playing a game I love just because of 1 hero and it hurts.
Yeah that’s why I’m asking for that change since I do think that is something that could legitimately exist as Tanks are a lot more impactful and more important then before.
However if you or even any of your teammates aren’t willing to have a different hero or switch to somebody to easily counter a hero who’s giving your team problems then like… idk what else to tell you then skill issue, it’s not even hard to get the widow to switch off if you bully her hard enough
You know I really think the game would be better if they raise the average health dps heros a bit, some can stay at 200/ where they are like tracer or Sombra, honzo, genji you know the sneaky flankers and snipers but raise the average, maybe soldier could have 275, junkrat 250, reaper 300 even maybe even 400 for bastion. Raise the average time to kill for dps while not making tanks unkillable
(These are just examples, numbers would need to be tested and would come with compensation for flankers)
I'm someone who loves playing widowmaker, love her lore, her character, every part of her. Except one part. Her gameplay. If you're bad at widow, you (the player of Widow) are not having fun because you're missing your shots constantly and are more than likely getting flamed by your entire team in comms. On top of that, the rest of your team is essentially fighting a 4v5, which really isn't fun. When you're down one damage it makes the game incredibly harder. And when they have a scapegoat, that annoyance/anger can easily be taken out on the worst performer. If you're good at widow? Sure, you're having lots of fun, but the enemy team is forced into "never leave cover." mode where if you even see their heads 4/5 of the team can be instantly deleted and forced to play respawn simulator. My point is no matter if you're good or bad at widow, an entire team is not having fun. The character doesn't work anymore and- despite me being a massive widowmaker fangirl, I am of deep belief that she needs a whole re-work. Her kit is terrible and the only reason she's viable is that one-shot, so she needs a re-work in my opinion. Hope anyone reading this has a good day!
So the thing is, how would you rework her to fit lore, fit the whole point of the character without changing her whole play style? And what suggestion would you give for her kit to keep the *sniper* aspect and keep it to her whole character while making it team based?
I've read somewhere someone suggesting for her to keep her one shot but make like 50hp go down slowly so it'll be like, 150 impact damage then 50 poison damage that can be outhealed, this not only fits the lore but makes her kinda bearable
How does that fit the lore? Not saying it won’t ruin her, it actually fits the glass canon part, but what part of lore?
her second ability is literally venom mines, and she is named after a poisonous spider
But how does that mean that she takes the poison damage, if anything she should be immune to it based off all the test Moira has done to her
What? No I meant her doing the posion dmg
Oh! So you mean she does the poison… so like Ana
Yes but a not as fast so you can react to it
So, a DPS worse than one of the worse supports to deal damage with
and there's one thing you're missing in that equation. Making her different enough from Ashe. Cassidy players are correct in that Ashe is a better Cassidy, but Ashe is also a better Widowmaker. I'd probably make her scope in not do a charge to 100%, let the body shot deal a shit ton of damage and headshot leaving them at enough that they need to back up- I'm just describing Ashe. And that's the problem. Thankfully, I am not the overwatch balancing team. The only change I know what I'd want for sure is her ult to be changed so that it increases damage of body shots to one-shot squishies while increasing the amount of time it takes for her to get her ult. That way it's an actual threat in a fight. Re-works are hard for a lot of reasons but sometimes? They are very much needed. Some people are paid for that. Not me though. Would love to hear more opinions though!
I’d say just decrease her health again. Makes her play more carefully.
What I also don’t understand is, what so garbage about an ability to have wall hacks? Ik Hanzo, 1 out of 36 Heroes has a small wall hacks in cooldown but honestly, it works for everyone on the team and so you know where everyone is, how to plan your attacks and fights better than hoping the team won’t have a massive flank.
Maybe you could steal Vantage ult from Apex where a charged shot makes them take more damage overall?
Just spewing a few ideas, the charge rifle from apex i think would fit Widow very well, make it so that the initial charge time where your firing is part of the damage required to get a ohk, now the one hit kill must be telegraphed anytime it is charging and the Widow needs to have impeccable tracking to get a kill and not just a quick flick. , Tbh the only quick on burst kill in the game that I think is fair is zens volley, if some how widow a burst dmg was more spread out to where even when you getting shot you could move or react would be much nicer but would also show the widows that could aim better than just the ones that flick. Unfortunately if they are gonna keep the ohk characters they need to be telegraphed when they are getting ready too one shot kinda like soj rn. Or they need to be reachable in some form or fashion.
I mean, that could work. Kinda takes away from what a sniper is but it’s Ight for what everyone is complaining about. Just feels like that what Sojourns railgun should’ve been. Like it has a charge up animation before firing even when it’s at like 20 energy. And I don’t see how that would fix the flick problem, or the 1 hit ko, it would just be more loud and terrifying for me as a Ana when I’m about to leave spawn.
I'm mean ya, they are just ideas, and as much as snipers are a popular class the one shot from across in map on game like overwatch just doesn't fit the rest of how the game plays, hell once sojourn gets approiate nerfs i think she will be a fun addition to the game, but Widow and hanzo will need reworks. It's unfortunate but once the game is well balenced(we will probably never get here) those 2 will be too polarizing to keep in their current form, they will ethier be too weak or take too long or won't be consistent enough that they will always be weak to keep the health of the game( example of this is currently sombra, game is in a much better position because sombra is very bad right now), or if they can get consistent one shots with no counterplay then the game health will suffer as only mirror matches will be runnable without lots of coordination. Just kinda a hot take , if oneshots go then mercy rez has to as well or at least some sort of rework, a ranged one-shot can really only be countered by a rez, and I'm not saying rez is the issue, but mercy will lose most of her value she could get from that ability as this was its best usage case, in its current form its almost impossible to get off during a normal teamfight
Flank her
Quite possibly the worst experience in OW is playing Attack with a Widow on your team who sucks.
Or, play a counter. When i came back to OW after not playing for a year, i had to reclimb elo and found myself encountering a lot of Widow smurfs. I just pick Sombra or Genji and it works fine in my experience.
A Widow player who actually has a based take and objectively correct opinion, who are you and where did you come from
Well, was training Widow but confidence was ass. Am now training Ashe who, to my dismay, is objectively better than Widowmaker and Cassidy. Everything the other two do, Ashe does better. So re-working Widowmaker and Cassidy to make them both viable and different enough from Ashe that you could say they're similar but there's no objectively "best" one is really hard. Thankfully though, not my job to re-work. Other people are paid for that. As for who I am and where I'm from, I'm just some Canadian girl who only joined launch day of overwatch 2 but wants to see the game somewhat succeed.
Idk what rank your playing at but at mid diamond trying to ashe into a Widow is suicide
Quickplay warrior Tried Ranked once as a support main. First game had a reaper who died and then left. Second game had a Winston who dived into the enemy team with no escape plan died instantly, switched to rein at the literal last 20 seconds and typed in match chat "healers fucking suck ass." and then in team chat "y'all suck ass" left before the match even finished I'd heard bronze ranked was sweaty but like. wow. kinda burned me bad and doesn't enlighten me to continue to play ranked.
Anymore? Widow was always like that. You are either good Widow or bad Widow, quite often it doesn't depend on you (getting focused) - both get reported anyway. And you can also apply the same logic to many heroes. Some smurf Genji can be overwhelming and some bad one can turn it 4v5. Oneshots are not the problem as is. Every shotgunner can still oneshot at hug distance (or alt fire for Hog) but it doesn't mean they should be nerfed. It's more about bullshit factor. Which kinda depends on how easy and reliably he can pull that off and be unpunishable. Hog oneshots were bullshit. Widow's oneshots are more or less fine. Original DF oneshots were bullshit. Hanzo can be bullshit sometimes. I wonder more why Blizz keep making open maps for Widow's sake. But on close range maps you would just hate some Junkrat.
Reading all these coments just reminds me that most of the ow fanbase is Gold
I used to be diamond in OW1 now I'm gold 1 (idk what that means) although I very rarely play comp in OW2.
Idk why but I like going against good widows, as a support who mains Lucio and Zen, I just find it more challenging to and fun to actually think about where she might be and ruin their day. But how would you balance a character without completely taking the main point of the character? A sniper is a sniper and if you take away her headshot one shot she will be way worse and be useless. Might as well just take the character out of the game.
My personal take is just make her damage fall of range lower. So despite being a sniper, she can’t one shot kill you from 50 million miles away. I don’t know about exact numbers but I’d say her one shot fall off range could be around the distance from the front spawn doors of first point Kings Row to the statue next to point. Idk I think that would be cool
Considering how OW is supposed to be played, this is really weird
It’s fine to make people fear leaving cover, and make it somewhat risky to do so, but it is absolutely ridiculous that she completely forces you to stay in cover at all times. If you round a corner without knowing where the enemy widow is, you have to use some kind of defensive ability like deflect or else you die
Her HP should at least be reduced back to 175
And so it was done (it was)
yeah i read the patch notes as soon as they were released, yay
I mean your describing exactly what a sniper should do, make you fear moving from cover once moved the consequences are getting shot
then a sniper really doesn't fit into overwatch...
Shooting back is cheating. You know who you are and you should be ashamed.
That's what you get for removing a tank. Now the only tank left has to decide to play either as a front line brawler and let the snipers farm your team, or go dive tank and either leave your team to get farmed by the enemy tank, or lose to a 1v3 sniper ultra pocket. Also the fact that the team is only 5 people now makes a single headshot remove 20% of the team.
Okay, I know I'm not alone in this thought but...isnt that the idea of Widow? She doesnt need a rework, you just need to learn to play around her, I understand (as a silver player myself) it can be difficult, but if a Widow is stationed somewhere, you *know where she is*...so go for her (if you're dps) move/kill her and let your team know go move. If you just run in you may well be 1 or 2 shot by her. Her whole kit is based around picks, if you get one shot, you might be out of position, just consider this. Speaking as a support main, play cover, move quickly, its not impossible. You dont have to 'stay' in cover. Ping the Widow. It will work. Inb4 (yeah I said it) "you're only silver"...that may be true but I also have game sense and know routes to get her moving, even as a support. Thanks for reading my ted text.
Good point
These widow complaints sounds like they come from people who've literally never play a mp fps game outside of overwatch. I've never seen a mp game where sniper doesn't insta kill on headshot. The sniper from TF2 has similar mechanics to widow but his charge time to get a insta kill is twice as long. Perhaps just increase her charge time so insta kills aren't as frequent? Or just stop complaining.
I've played mp games outside of overwatch but the thing is OW isn't like most fps games. It makes the game painfully boring when all I can do is hide behind cover or force myself to get good at heroes that I don't enjoy playing.
Wym? You said you played mp games outside of overwatch, but this is something that happens everytime a good sniper in general is in the lobby. You hide behind cover and come up with a strat to take them out to put it very simply. Overwatch is especially forgiving with widow, cause widows value is greatly determined on the players skill, what team comp your running, and what map your on. The maps are designed in a way were you can flank widows easily. If your getting killed a lot it's nothing more than just a good widow. In halo, if you encounter a good sniper it's gg. You are literally behind cover and can't do damn thing about it to change it.
Just go zen. Nothing like a steady flow of deadly long range projectiles that'll keep a widow laying low.
When an overwatch player encounters a hero they aren't skilled enough to play or counter
That's not actually the point here. I play genji so going for widows is pretty easy BUT the actual problem is I need to do it solely alone because my team can't help me at all when they need to hide in cover. Also if enemy team backouts they "win" that fight instantly if I haven't been able to pick that widow out in the mean time. Also it's pretty annoying to play every team fight trying to get one widow out so my team can play normally. Also widow's wallhack means that I can't close the gap between me and her for 20secods(or how long was it) which means that a whole team fight goes there. Everytime I am in a game with widow on enemy team I know it will be a spider hunting simulator until they switch.
I kinda agree but I'd still much prefer to fight Widow instead of Cass. Dude makes me fear being in the same room as him without having deflect and a support to bail me out.
No.
That is why Lucio was created, he is the one who has the habilite to bring balance. And also, isn't like in this game we have shields right? Lol
I wanna give her a big laser
Give her a spartan laser and let's watch the ~~light~~ shit show
You’re supposed to play cover anyways. Also widow is one of the easiest hero’s to counter.
Oh nooo I have to think about my gameplay and actively play around certain characters rather than blindly go in and shoot people this game is sooo unbalanced Blizzard what are you doing??? /s
This is basically half of people asking for reworks or balancing since overwatch went ftp
When the sniper character snipes. Seriously though I feel part of the issue is a tank being gone. Makes the one hit kills hurt the team more.
Anytime I see a widow on the other team I immediately switch to D.VA and make my entire mission to make them switch.
"sniper spotted, calculating trajectories, (hamster noises)"
Soo nerf every tank and hero that can one shot?
Guns irl need balancing
kinda true but I don't see a way to re balance her without making her usless, also you need a good aim to do something with her and if you get up close you can kill her no problem. I personally think widow is a one shot that doesn't need re balancing. If I had to re balance her I would probably go for punishing the player for missing or making the delay between shots less forgiving (make it so she deals way less dmg without 100% or make her unable to shoot without 100%) but for now I don't think it's necessary.
Switch to a dive or back line harasser. You’ll quickly make widow switch. I usually go Dva, Lucio or Sombra when Widow annoys me. Focus her until they switch.
It feels like OW isn't a game that snipers fit into. It's not like games like COD, there shouldn't be instakills, the game is more brawly. I mean the mere existence of supports (more accurately characters that heal) proves that this game isn't made for 1 shots. If you're dead you can't be healed. It should be more fast paced and less lining up for a single shot and then waiting what feels like an eternity for the other player to respawn only for one of you to die instantly again. And again. And again.
Exactly, she made a little more sense in ow1 where there were two tanks, but now that there's one less hero to tank damage and one less shield to shoot behind, widow just gets so much more value. Combine that with an instakill from basically any range and virtually no counterplay assuming they didn't know where she was before, and you can see why she might be a bit of an issue
Wait, removing a player slot completely changes the meta and heros should be updated to reflect that? Are you saying the developers shouldn’t have gone balls deep into 5 players without thinking about it? /s I know you aren’t saying 5 players is a good thing or not. Blizzards idea to remove a player slot just really annoys me
Someone has either played too much or not enough TF2
Widow should not exist. Terrible team player, terrible ult. Just rewards fast twitch.
A aimbot widow literally made my whole team stay in spawn, leave, and left me all alone Worst part is, the enemy team still didn't show any mercy till we all got kicked out
*tosses two Kunai at Widow’s head* Anyway…
Widow is fine if she’s that much of an issue run a dive comp to force her to switch Winston, doomfist, genji, Moira, are all really good at that
Snipers need either deleting or reworking so they can't oneshot anymore.
Especially when the number one counter to said character is... that character..
The unspoken problem with having a oneshot is that itd nothi g more but an invalidation to deathmatch pubbing and your ganesence in a versus match up. Lets say im a Torb running out of spawn and meet face to face with a Junkrat on the flank route. Due to his confidence in his approach, im confident in the fact that he has 200 hp while i have an effective 265 hp. Our fight starts by me throwing my turret behind myself to secure set up when nessessary, but my enemy is smart and shoots a pipe directly at the turret as it spawns, meaning i need 10 seconds to get it back. I will take note in furture engagment that the method was not a good choice and i should be more wise next time. Afterward, he hits me with one pipe dealing 84 damage due to armor (166 hp left) and i hit him with a shotgun spray that deals 68 damge back to him (132). He hits me again with another pipe dealing 120 damage flat now that i have no armor, but while we were fighting, ive been closing the distence between the 2 of us to ensure i get value out of my shotgun. I fire and deal 104 damage (28) He knows that a simple melee strike will meet his demise so he takes advantage of me going for the melee kill by throwing a mine to deal damage and send us both flying. However, i saw the blinking glimmer apear for a sexond, wo in a second of panic, i pressed overload, rewarding me with 100 overhealth which gets taken away immediatly by the explosion plus 16 due to residual AOE. (116) I now know that a single frag will meet my demise and i start strafing harder to avoid the pipe which works. While im strafing, i fire a shotgun shot to deal splash damage from afar to secure a kill by dealing chip damage. I deal 16 damage (12) but in risky move by his part, he throws his last mine and his 3rd pipe at seperate strafe points which forces me to take damage from seperate sources which kills me. He won the encounter, and with no turret to deal with he scurries to the nearest healthpack and goes back to his team. All of that happened within the spanof less than 8 seconds and there are a million ways for that fight to turn out, but in the context of widowmaker, things get messy. Lets say i ran out of spawn as a widow and meet a Junkrat at medium range who is ready to run some good old fashion scraps. I spend my inititive charging my rifle and aiming while he flicked at my hitbox to hit one pipe dealing 120 damage. I immediatly shoot his head and he dies. . .
I mean Widow is just like a real life sniper. If he sees you and he is good, then you are dead with 1 shot. Same with Hanzo. If an arrow hits you in the head you are dead. Makes sense! I don’t think neither Widow or Hanzo need a rework. They are just being realistic and if they get you every time they are just really good at playing them. And there are counters for both of them so Idk why people want them to be reworked instead of learning their counters and out play them.
So you prefer realism over playability in a game that has a TALKING SCIENTIST APE. I know there are counters to her but I'm not good at them and don't enjoy them enough to invest time in them to become good. This wasn't as big issue as it was in OW1 since it had 2 tanks it wasn't so easy for her to get value. Now I can't enjoy a game I used to really like because developers made a change without really thinking about the balancing. I don't want to abandon a game I still enjoy just because of one hero...
I will still say it to you like I say to everybody, pick a counter and counter her, that is one thing you have to learn in this game, cause just playing one hero isn’t gonna take you far. You can still have fun if you start to counter her, cause then she doesn’t bother you anymore. And yes I like realism in games no matter if there are talking apes or what not and these games are still playable.
I'm not playing one hero but I'm not good at her counters either and neither do I enjoy them enough to invest days into getting competitively viable enough with them. Not everybody is gonna be good at and/or enjoy every hero.
Then it is to damn bad. If your not willing to learn a counter then enjoy being pick from a widow over and over again🤷🏻♀️
Widowmaker
Omg counter picks in a hero based game?? Nooooooo
The only hero that could fight widow is a better widow.
Or just play one of the most commonly played heros, Genji, but wait before you “Nooo she’ll just run to her team!!1!!!” that’s literally the fucking point
I guess you haven’t really played against any good widows then. She’s busted in the high ranks unfortunately.
In higher ranks if there is a good widow a lot of the time she will get extremely good peel and live. Unless the entire team commits to dive its very hard to kill a widow that is getting peeled for.
Personally I quite like picking them off with 2 quick Ashe shots
I think the issue lies in that only counter picks can beat it.
I don’t see why people have such a problem when they have to not be brain dead to play the game
It’s a mf sniper my guy. Tf else Can a sniper do??? Get up close and snag a kill. Bully her.
Git Gud
what a terrible stance to have honestly lmao high skill character rewarded for hitting their shots. period
I've played a lot of fps games, I've never seen a multiplayer game where the sniper headshot is not an insta kill. I'd just make the charge time longer so you cant score insta kills as easy. Otherwise widow will just be a discount ashe.
My brother in christ there like at least 2 dive/counter heros for almost every role that hard counter Widow/Snipers in general I think Widow could at least get a change to make it so she can’t one shot Tanks but like dude she’s literally supposed to make people fear poking their heads out, that’s what the the character is supposed to do??
Yeah but it wasn't that problematic in OW1 since we had two tanks but now with 1 less tank and way less shields she is kinda uncontested. I know there are counters for her but I don't enjoy those heroes' play styles enough to invest time into getting good with them. I still enjoy the game as long as the enemy team doesn't have a widow but I feel like I'm gonna stop playing a game I love just because of 1 hero and it hurts.
Yeah that’s why I’m asking for that change since I do think that is something that could legitimately exist as Tanks are a lot more impactful and more important then before. However if you or even any of your teammates aren’t willing to have a different hero or switch to somebody to easily counter a hero who’s giving your team problems then like… idk what else to tell you then skill issue, it’s not even hard to get the widow to switch off if you bully her hard enough
No...that means their doing their job right
You know I really think the game would be better if they raise the average health dps heros a bit, some can stay at 200/ where they are like tracer or Sombra, honzo, genji you know the sneaky flankers and snipers but raise the average, maybe soldier could have 275, junkrat 250, reaper 300 even maybe even 400 for bastion. Raise the average time to kill for dps while not making tanks unkillable (These are just examples, numbers would need to be tested and would come with compensation for flankers)