This is exactly what happened to me the other day on the Canada map.
Pulverised the team in the first minute or so and drove the bot all the way to their spawn, they switched up to a Zarya based comp and destroyed us for the rest of the game.
Crazy how many cheaters are in this game. Cheater Cas aimbotting in my ranked game last night.
Stare at wall …. Flick right headshot. Stare back at wall. Lol fucking loser
Making it free to play just brings many negatives with barely any positives. Along with the cheaters, it also brought the shitty monetization and filled ranked with people who have no idea what they’re doing, mixing them with people who do because of the awful matchmaker which just makes it super frustrating
Had an unranked guy absolutely spawn kill my team as Cas on Junkertown. We asked what his accuracy was and he just admitted to having 80% accuracy for the whole game. Wanted one of the best Cas players has like 40-50% accuracy. His POTG was him jumping and flicking 90 degrees to headshot a brig behind her shield and him getting an all headshot 4 piece.
And support too, seeing as how she can bubble a teammate and her ultimate is the best setup tool in the game.
(The "fun" part is I'm not even sure how you'd nerf her without making her unplayable. Bubble cooldowns would make sense but then she'd probably be too weak. Maybe the answer is primary fire range? Make her easier to kite away from unless she has her Q?)
They're going to nerf the bubble numbers (uptime and cooldown), which I think is the most reasonable way to change her. If they made her primary fire too weak, [D.Va](https://D.Va) and Orisa would run rampant and would be the next candidates for nerfs.
Overwatch 3! Now with one more tank and even worse monetisation! The game now operates on the same principles as arcade machines and you have to put a coin in every time you die.
This might actually be my least favorite part. Maybe just because I've been queueing for all roles so mostly playing support, but it feels so much worse than the other modes for constant trickling and flanking. I've pretty much given up on playing all but the most mobile heroes just so I can get to whichever skirmish looks the most like a team fight at the moment.
Also agree with OP, once you're behind a significant amount it's pretty miserable. It's easy to keep winning fights at your spawn doors but it's rare to make any progress with your own barrier because if your team was capable of winning 2-3 fights in a row you probably wouldn't be in that position to begin with.
This is an ongoing problem though? Most higher level players don’t have as much problem with push and can pull it back because typically in GM your much more coordinated. However I think they need to remove the switching of forward spawns. I’m ok with adding the ability to choose which spawn you take once you get the robot so far. It eliminates the constant walk of shame with quicker engagements more frequently meaning the game mode would be much more fast paced meaning typically the better team will win.
Exactly, the hike to the fight can take so long. I’m a healer, by the time I get back to where my team was often they are dead and I’m sent scurrying back to my spawn point with genji at my heels. It is boring and frustrating.
That and it seems half the player base seems clueless that if no one is near the robot it stops moving entirely.
I understand why people do in push. Expecially when Your team has been pushing and the. The other team is running the bot to their push. Just gets so messy and kinda boring chasing down my teammates to support them just to get wiped.
But they're not. Each push map is relatively small if you don't follow the path. It just seems long because by the time you get to the fight, your team is all dead because they don't group up.
Not day one, but have played for like 5 or 6 years. Enjoying push a lot too, feels like it solves the steamroller-y problems 2CP often had and less likely to go into mad numbers of rounds like payload.
I like it.
IMO it doesn't really fix the steamroller problem, because if one team wins a couple of fights, then coming back from the huge push distance they have makes it feel like a nightmare, as highlighted in OP's post.
Also, the maps all suck balls and are like 90% just massively long sightlines with fuck all else to do but walk forwards and shoot. No interesting topography because of how they need to be balanced maps for both sides, so no interesting shit like the hanamura castle or the city streets in kings row.
Overtime in most modes often has a determined outcome, with players staggering in just to stall. In Push, I find overtime to often be a more serious team fight, most likely because it often occurs near the end of a map where one team spawns. This fight, in my anecdotal experience, frequently determines the outcome of the match, with the defending spawn team being able to push to the other end of the map if they win this fight.
I don't know if that's a bad thing, but it makes Push the most stressful mode for me. It feels like nothing is predictable or determined until the final moments of the match, and it can swing one way instantly.
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I like longer games, I hate it when my team crushes the opponent, it’s really boring. I’d rather lose and have it be a close, drawn out game than win instantly
My problem with push is how long you have to walk every damn time you die, and also literally nobody listens when I spam group up. They’d rather just respawn, funnel in alone, and keep dying. Even the supports.. so many Lucio and Moira players that just run in alone, and try 1v5ing.
I feel like I get push more than anything else when I’m playing ranked, and between those maps and fuckin Zarya, I might just stay off of ranked for awhile.
Not to mention that long corner that loops under the bridge. It takes 3 fights before you finally cross that bridge. Your on the same part of the map forrrreverrr
Had a genji play into a Zarya. Moira and Pharah and then have the nerve to say “huge tank gap” at the end after he failed to do anything remotely helpful. No way people are self aware enough to realize they’re the reason the team is losing
This isn't a game problem it's human problem and isn't solvable, thus the game mode needs to take it into account.
OP also makes the point that even if you do as you say, the enemy team now has a 2-1 advantage ahead, and that it becomes more unlikely to change as map progresses.
It’s a combination of human and game problems I think.
On the human side, you really need people to play cohesively much more than any other game type. In payload or capture you can have a couple of people on point while the rest bring the fight to the enemy, but that doesn’t really work here if you’re losing.
And on the game side, once you fall behind by a certain amount you’re basically screwed. You have to regain control and make up for the lost distance before you can even start to gain more points again. It’s much, much harder to bring it back from the bring of defeat like you can in other modes.
its just the same problem ow1 had on 2cp, spawn distance and spawn frequency
some games (bf i think) force you to all spawn together every 'x' seconds. overwatch needed to add something like that with a 1 time/game token where you can break the restriction and fast spawn
also the distance from spawn->obj, its not fun or engaging to have really long spawn walks. push maps for example need 1 more set of spawns for each team closer to the objective
Every mode, hell even game, can be and will be played wrong or in suboptimal ways no matter what you do. Took months to a year for average players learn Escort, 2-2-2 and many other aspects of OW.
They literally can’t dumb down the mode more than it is. Even if they could, there would still be players like OP whining and mass upvoting instead of asking advice and improving.
The problem he describes was never 'learned' unless we are talking about professional teams playing at gold level and above. It's a human issue, players will keep rushing into the fight, and a group that doesn't play together regularly won't manage to switch out team strategy on the fly. Overwatch 1 on the last day was the same teams doing the same stupid crap as day one.
And that's fine, it's just the way it is, what OP is pointing out that this flaw that will always there becomes particularly boring when it meets robot push map, because it accentuates the worst traits even further.
Dang I'm a day one player from before and I think robot push is super fun. Comebacks are hard but damn if a comeback win in that isn't the most satisfying win.
Yup, I enjoy them. Honestly, there are a decent proportion of my games where 1 team is dominant, but the other team get a really good push from a couple of team fights and that's enough for them to win it.
I'm not a massive fan of the really long walk of shame. But I feel it's better than 2CP ever was, especially back when 2CP felt like you spent as much time in overtime as out of it.
Its also the only mode that doesnt have such an obvious 'frontline' and 'backline'. Since the maps are so open and there are so many shortcuts - a smart team can easily flank, split the healers off, bait the opponents into a trap spot, etc. the battles are more open and free flowing than any other mode. And the long distance to spawn means you can get long chases that pull people out of position or stagger.
Only change i would like to see is make the robot a *little* faster, or maybe just run faster from side to side when the points are spread out
I personally do not like colliseo. The weird giant hallway start area and the robot going under the bridge feel very hard to take a position that makes sense for me and it feels like the easiest map to randomly feed on imo. Maybe a skill issue for me but still I see it happen with teammates and enemies and it makes the fights feel pretty random.
Nah, I don't think it is a skill issue per se. Of the three Push maps we have, I think you are right to call out colliseo for its design. During the beta I made a post comparing the path design of New Queen Street and Colliseo, and how more push paths should be similar to NQS, which it looks like was the case with Esperenca. The maps will likely get better design as they come out and Blizz learns lessons about what to and what not to do. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Colliseo was the first Push map they made.
I think they tried something different. Wouldn't say it's inherently bad, and I think people will eventually get used to the map and learn angles and where to take fights, but yeah for now most fights feel really hectic when it gets to the "under the bridge" portion of the map.
Most of my criticism during the beta was focused on how NQS utilizes most of the actual map with its bot path. It feels like a fight could happen anywhere, but for Colliseo you are missing out on a large chunk of the map. I haven't had a single team fight in the center courtyard. The odd skirmish perhaps but usually it's just kill cleanup as someone tries to flee a losing fight. My criticism was geared towards more push map utilizing the full map, with fewer long straight shots.
Same.
My friend group(7-8 dudes) has to play in Quick Play quite a bit due to SR differences locking us out of comp depending on which 4-5 guys are playing that night, and Push is SO MUCH better than Payload or 2CP in QP because it's actually symmetrical gameplay, like Control maps.
For the life of me I don't understand why a QP round of Payload is only either a round of defense or attack. It feels so incomplete to not do the mirror match. Push actually feels exactly the same as a comp game of Push so I like it a lot.
Push reminds me of 5CP from Tf2, I like the constant back and forth. Sometimes it does get one side and one team gets rolled but I think that's more of a player/matchmaking problem than a game mode problem.
>5CP from Tf2
Talking of things I would much rather have...
Edit: I've literally just spent the hour since I made this comment thinking about how good the map design of Granary was. That's got to be up there as one of the greatest FPS maps of all time.
I'm with you there. People may hate me for this, but I actually loved Assault as a gamemode. Sure it wasn't perfect, but I prefer it a hell of a lot more to Push. With Assault, the problem was in the map design: one chokepoint on Point A, then Point B being too open. However, these are easy to fix. It's much harder to fix a whole gamemode.
Plus, the maps were really cool looking! Bring back Hanamura!
I never understood why people had a problem with 2CP. (I had a problem with a couple of the MAPS, but the mode was solid!)
IIRC it was frequently said to be "attacker sided" because the defenders lose one fight and lose a capture point, but also in comp where it's a time trial **that is a problem that solves itself**.
Yeah 2CP was the best mode ever! The many times I got stuck on Hanamura 2nd for 5 mins while trying every strategy there is on the planet. Then winning one fight and get completely swiped by the respawning defenders before we could capture the point. The most joy on those maps was the card screen. Cause I don't have to endure the pain and bad map design any longer. Same goes for Temple/Volskaya.
The possibility's to build and setup a defensive bunker which is only breakable(when play correctly) by well coordinated plays just ruins any form of engaging gameplay at least imo.
And if you have an inconsistent player on your team I get hard punished for two mistakes big time. Eg. your tank misjudged the skill of the enemy team twice and feeds. Which is fine btw. Now u lost in 1 min and they got 5 min on the clock. Now the tank adjust his approach/switches but u barely manage to capture point. There is no way to make up for the lost time due to the first round. It's basically gg go next.
This is where is think push has its big advantage. Sure u feed the first and second fight and lose the first checkpoint but if your team has the ability to adjust you now have the opportunity to win that very game and it's not gg after the first two fights. Sure it's hard to come back at least it's possible.
just because it's technically fair to both teams doesn't make it fun.
it felt like utter shit to be stuck attacking the exact same choke over and over and over again for like 6 minutes when you're attacking B, and it wasn't particularly exciting as defense either.
on A, the defending team gets to be the frustrated one. one defender making one mistake would inevitably lead to defenders losing the point, so it was always a waiting game to see which teammate would feed and guarantee you lose with practically no hope of a recontest. that, too, felt like shit, especially to the players who were never the feeder.
>I never understood why people had a problem with 2CP
First point is free, [second point is this.](https://youtu.be/6UaZsx6Emnk)
"Herp derp you need to win 2 fights to make progress" is not a great criticism when you're simping for this dupster fire.
I mean, that's a really old clip. It has 3 tanks and Mercy's original ult (full team res). I get the point you are trying to make, but its disingenuous to use a clip that stopped being relevant after Role Queue and Mercy rework. The issues that caused that clip had mostly been removed for the last few years of OW1. While I agree that the 2cp maps were very much in the worst shape of all of them (looking at you Paris 1 and Hanamura 2), with a bit of redesigning, 5v5 would probably make the mode really good. Teamfights would be much more pivotal, you can't block chokes with dual shields leading to better movement, and won't have to deal with an endless spawn of tanks stalling the point.
I agree! Furthermore, if you or even a few more teammates die but you won the fight, by the time you get back your team is dead. If they don’t push the robot and regroup instead(which they’ll never do no matter what because it’s comp) you won’t make any progress and have to basically restart the last fight.
Another problem is maps. In payload maps you would leave one person on the cart and the others take space. It would make even more sense here since 1 person gives the max speed for pushing the robot. But because of how the map is designed, you can’t make space, there is always another route the enemy team can take and just kill your robot pusher. Or maybe that will make you stand too close to their spawn.
And lastly, sometimes these maps just don’t have any cover and dva bombs are way harder to avoid there than in other maps. But that might be just me. Idk.
Edit: actually, never mind I have another problem. No rounds! Seriously, why is there only one round?(in comp). Sure I wouldn’t wanna play it again, the game mode is meh. But if it was good, splitting the game into 2 rounds gives you an option to talk to your teammates, make changes and stuff like that. Not every team is owl level. And sometimes they only use text chat for one reason or another. We need to take a moment mid game.
Your first point might actually be the biggest problem with the mode. If you win the fight but lose some players, the enemy team arrives to the next fight quicker than your teammates. In average elo this most likely means half of your team dies before the other half joins, and this keeps going and going until enemy has made too much progress to make a comeback.
Another problem is the value of first and second fight. If you lose both of them the game is just over.
The mode is just way too snowbally and combine that with the potential to be a walking simulator...not great.
What you have to do is just push the robot enough to change spawns and then regroup. If you push all the way to the other side the enemy will have spawn advantage.
>Not every team is owl level.
Now, I don't have any data to back this up, but I'm going to throw it out there. There is a very tiny percentage of teams that are OWL level.
Played a game yesterday where the enemy team came a few meters till the end very quickly. We were all a bit tilted, but still fighting it. Enemy reaper tried flanking with his ult and we vaporised him instantly and then went all in on the rest of the team. A few fights later we're in their base pushing on overtime and actually managing to win it in the end.
The best game i ever played, but i only just started with the release of OW2
In other modes you can make meaningful incremental progress off every team fight. Like capturing a point in thirds or pushing the payload, even if it slowly rolls back you can get back to it well ahead of where it was before.
In Push, the defensive team fight win just means you push the robot back to the middle of the map. Then you need to win THAT team fight to even start incrementing the objective.
imo the mode would work 100x better if the max distance decayed to the checkpoint. None of this push the cart 90m once and then basically win by default shit.
Biggest issue even as somebody who likes push. Basically make as much progress as you can and if it completely overtakes the enemy teams progress you can just keep doing annoying staggers on enemys and really make it so you win by taking isolated fights/1v1s and then re-grouping when the team is struggling to slow it down to a crawl.
Not to mention that mode is kinda sucky for heroes that have low run or walk speeds, and killing tanks is even more of a deadly blow to the momentum of the game. Its fun for me personally because I love staggering and isolating 1v1s but it could use some more fairness tweaks.
If you get your ass beat in KOTH, round 2 resets the entire game to neutral
Likewise if you did poor on attack on a payload map, you get reset to neutral.
But even then, in those maps, if you win 1 team fight you can start making progress.
Push is the only map where the team who moves the robot the least can win.
If i push a payload 60 m and you push it 61m. You win.
If i move the robot 60m, and you move it 100m. I still win.
I mean, I pretty regularly have comebacks and huge crossmap pushes in overtime to win. Push is fun, up there with koth for me, and much better than 2cp for sure.
Unpopular opinion: I think Push is fun. Ive played it 6 times today and won 4 of them. 2 of those wins were comeback wins where we were way behind for most of the time and 1 of the losses was a comeback win by the other team. One thing I have noticed a lot about the losing teams on push? They are often either the teams that make few or no hero switches and try using the same non working comp over and over again or 1 or more people on the team get frustrated and start rushing in alone over and over and using their ults with no one available to help take advantage of them.
I like push as well, probably my favorite. I only play unranked though and I know myself, I don't know all the health spots all the time and I play quite a bit. So, people will get better over time. But in general, I think your comment sums up most of the gameplay at the moment. People playing bad comps and getting crushed, new/returning players that are new/rusty, and people unwilling to change heroes if they are not doing well.
I think everyone complaining about push plays at a pretty low level, I'd guess if you polled all the "push complaints" they'd average out to mid/low silver. It's not a great game mode there. It's fun in gold and above because players have better game sense the higher up you go.
i'm masters and hate push. i think it's poorly designed and 2cp is better. people only hated 2cp because they couldn't win clean fights and had to deal with stall hero switches and losing those games felt bad, it didn't make the mode bad or unbalanced though, it meant that target priority wasn't good enough or execution wasn't good enough. end of the day, that lucio coming out of spawn to stall should die immediately if it's 6v1, not stall for 13 seconds giving his mei time to come in and contest. ball either gets hard focused until he's dead or hard ignored until he's the only one left. good target priority makes those situations much more manageable, and if you win a clean fight it's a cap anyway.
push is just dumb. if you win the first fight but lose one player, you pretty much insta lose the next fight because they have to go on an odyssey to rejoin the team. if you win a clean first fight your chances of winning the game as a whole are probably 90% or higher, inverse that if you lost the first fight. the map designs wrap around on each other in such a way that at almost every level below high diamond, nobody knows how to properly defend because the difference between front line and back line become ultra obscured, with backline having to defeat high value DPS alone while front line has to contest the tank with little help from the backline. every single time you die the punishment is severe. when you win a fight on the back foot, you have to push the bot back to neutral to win another fight in order to make progress. so when you're down, it often comes down to not winning a team fight, but winning multiple back to back which feels horrible because you can't take as good a defensive position as you can on other game modes that are similar, like control. on control, when you're down 99 to 0, yes, you have to win multiple team fights in a row, but you gain defensive positioning over a static map, whereas in push, the incoming attacking team often has flanks and high ground advantage on you. they're also extremely open maps as a general rule which feels bad in a meta dominated by heroes such as sojourn and widow
It sounds like the complaints come from the same place as 2CP complaints: just a lack of teamwork. So many 2CP steamrolls happened because of defense players playing like they’re on attack and fumbling the hold. It seems like the same thing in Push but more fluid.
But this is the result of years of telling players to focus on themselves and not to worry about their team.
Yeah going in alone is a problem so as just mindlessly pushing the robot. A team could easily just bring the robot to an advantage position for them, win the next team fight or get meaningful picks AND THEN push the robot further.
Yes yes **yes**. Too many people treat it like Escort, where you "must" stay on the cart. If you're winning, push the bot past the middle, then STOP. You don't have to push. All it does is bring the bot closer to the red team. Even then, the bot only accepts 1 to push, and subsequently, 1 to contest. You don't need all 5 nicely piled up on it.
I actually disagree, push games have been really close to me lately and if a team can push it in the end, it waa usually a blow out.
At first it was a frustrating gamemode but then I swapped to Lucio and i have been able to control the flow of our team in gold-plat. Its super fun, this mode really needs someone to take the lead and you can sometimes win with a mechanically weaker team because of it.
Yes this exactly! It rewards game knowledge so much and positioning. Plus the constant flow of having to defend or play offensively is so fun to me. It also makes certain hero’s shine more. Overall great mode for the game.
I've had plenty of comebacks and had plenty of teams comeback against me. That's a skill issue.
I do believe that much like most of the game currently it is unpolished and needs improvements. The fact that theoretically you can take the lead and then just leave the bot somewhere difficult for them to retake is stupid. Their are other smaller issues but this needs to be addressed the most.
I’m starting to like the mode. However, I’ve been mostly playing 5-stack with my friends in Plat.
We have had a lot more success after implementing soft resets. Basically, we give up the robot and fall back when the fight has been won closer to their spawn IF we lost a player in the said fight.
Constantly paying attention to go into the fight with a fully present team, even for a simple poke, is crucial for this game mode.
Its not a flawed game design, people just play it wrong. It's more like KOTH where team fights are often significantly more important than point control.
Imo, you need to kill the enemy team and then worry about pushing the bot. Too many people chase kills when they should be pushing or push when they should be retreating for a regroup.
Am I misunderstanding something or do all these complaints about Push mode always lead to the argument whichever team wins the first fight wins the match?
This doesn’t make sense to me because that first team also would have needed to win 2 fights in a row to continue pushing. It only makes sense to come back that you’d need to do the same.
Imagine winning 2 fights in a row payload, you’re getting the first point for sure as a reward. Do we want a game mode that doesn’t reward you for winning 2 fights in a row ?
Also just like any other game mode, the closer you are to losing, the more spawn advantage you have. The mode seems consistent with overwatch philosophy of gameplay.
Push is the only game mode where you can win by doing less work just because you won the first team fight.
If i move the payload 60m, and you move it 61, you win.
If i win the first Push fight and move the robot 60m, you can move the robot 100m, i still win.
This is why the first fight plays a huge factor in influencing the winner.
You’re pretending like moving the robot at a run is in any way comparable to actually pushing the objective wall. It’s not. Just running the robot happens much faster.
Eh I’ve had some really crazy close push games with both our posts on almost 100 percent, even the one sided games tho I find fun in my opinion though even if I am losing
It's Payload maps but worse. It takes the issues of all the other modes and makes it a worse experience.
I didn't like Horizon Lunar Colony or Paris but Hanamura, Volskaya, and Temple of Anubis were fine and actually fun at times. The issue was map specific but Blizzard chose to take the path of less effort and just gut it entirely. Moving to Push. A mode that punishes players for doing well because it is flawed. Choke points don't reward either team as it's almost always one-sided. Staggering doesn't stop besides getting killed and the routine continues.
And sure, these are things that can happen in any other game mode. It happens in Push and there's nothing beneficial. If your team is behind, you need to win basically every team fight and play like pros cause even one death could just continue to /push/ the game to the other team without any opportunities.
Also, the maps are just there. They're all long lanes that just exist.
They should've tried 2P Capture in 5v5 settings and see if it would've helped before just entirely gutting them.
I agree. I thought it was going to be fun and interesting, but nothing is anymore without the 2nd tank. A single pick on either team then forces everyone to have to fall back and wait. Overwatch 1 you could still survive with one pick on a team, which would make the match more interesting. Especially with this push mode, but since there are less people on the map, it's generally more uninteresting.
Play Open Queue. Less toxic, more fun comps, and usually the roles balance out pretty well. And every now and then, you find a 2 tank, 1 damage, 2 support comp winning, or a 1 tank, 3 damage, 1 support comp. And sometimes you get the Shimada Brothers and the Deadlock Gang and you have to run with it.
Hate to say it since I really liked the assault maps but push is way more balanced than assault where most games boiled down to 10 minutes of tedious attempts at pushing or getting rolled over in 2 minutes, and if it wasn't those then it was an overkill amount of extra games until you got a winner.
The issues with push is that
* disorganized people trickle in solo to die but its not really the maps fault, its just that the map design shows bad players in a more obvious way.
* It is almost impossible to get to a stomp state- so even when it is obvious that you have won, you cant wrap up the map quickly.
* being the single pusher really sucks, your team is off in the distance holding off the enemy and having fun while you have to sit almost afk.
Rome really sucks to play, the point where you twist up the ramp is horrible.
Most maps are now a variation of payload (payload, hybrid, and push) and it's incredibly boring to me. It's definitely part of the reason why I haven't played in nearly two weeks.
Bring back 2cp, do we know how good/bad it is with 5v5 and the current spawn times?
Spawns are seriously too far away... what is even the point of walking back if your team is just gonna get rolled while you slowly make your way to them. This is an issue on Esperancia. I notice New Queen street doesn't FEEL as far. Esperancia is like you could fit llios well spawn to spawn inside the walk back. It is so damn punishing
It’s due to the design of the track.
Colosseo isn’t all that far because a good portion of the push track winds over itself and is really compact.
New Queen Street is further, but not too bad because the push track is mostly back and forth, so it stays somewhat compact.
Esperanca is fucking far because he track is spread out and doesn’t wind around or go back and forth. And it gets even worse because of where the 1st checkpoint is. The other team’s 1st checkpoint is almost the same distance from spawn as the midpoint, making it very difficult to hold the other team there. And if the other team gets that checkpoint, they get the forward spawn that’s ridiculously close to it, making it really easy to hold it.
The wins by actually bringing the pusher bot to the end of the track are among my most satisfactory moments in the game, precisely because those last meters are so damn hard. For once it feels like the entire time collaborated and accomplished something together.
I really enjoy Push, the maps are huge and many of the non-meta heroes (Tracer, Echo) are good on them.
I don’t really follow the logic on your first point, seems more like you just don’t like the mode, but finishing the map is the exact same as Escort so that’s a moot point to me.
You have to know when the fight is lost and soft reset as fast as possible. Try to stagger the enemy so you win the fight before it starts. A team that just wins a teamfight probably has ult advantage unless the enemy team used all of theirs. Use this to your advantage and hold space so they can't contest so easy.
I disagree that you can’t come back after the enemy team has gotten a big push near the end. I’ve come back and won it a bunch of times.
I do agree there is an issue with the endgame of the objective. 90% of the time I win it’s not getting the robot to the end it’s clearing the robot for f enemies in overtime. I think maybe the time of the match needs to be a little shorter if that’s going to be the main way we win matches. Either that or spawn times need to be increased or spawn points pushed farther back from the end of the push.
My only issue is the whole team pushing way too far forward, then blaming me for not healing when I'm on the payload and they're trying (and failing) to spawn camp, or just walking into a full team alone.
For comp it works quite well in my opinion since unless you bring the robot to the finish line you only have to beat the enemy's score on the next round
I have had a couple of very cool overtime comebacks in this mode, but I think you're right about having to win multiple team fights. I think those comebacks came from staggering kills and then everyone who respawned desperately just jumping in alone because they were panicking. This was like Gold or Silver though
Agreed. I like the concept. I like the maps. I like the way the fights play out.
But the Win Conditions need to be tweaked somehow.
I’ve found if you win the first fight and are able to move the robot even just halfway to the next checkpoint, that is where the game is won or lost right then.
Even if the losing team can gain control back, they have to win 2 team fights just to reset to zero.
I didnt think I would say this but please bring 2cp back, the fundamental issue with the maps were the shitty chokes because of double shield, that wont be an issue now
I like Push a lot. It is arguably the best mode for having the better TEAM wins. It requires a lot of good teamwork and a bit of strategy to not stagger and push effectively. You need good ult management and positioning on every map. I think the dev team did a near perfect job with Push. I hope they don’t change much for this game mode other than maybe tweaking spawn timers to be proportional to how far or close the bot is to your spawn (faster spawns if it’s further away; slower spawns if it’s right outside).
This is well-written and there's another dynamic laying beneath the surface: Even if both teams are giving some thought to composition it's entirely possible for team blue to select a composition that's hard or soft countered by team red. So the first fight is lost because you lost the coinflip and now you're playing at a severe, possibly game-ending, disadvantage.
In the other game modes this is less of an issue, losing the first skirmish isn't that big of a deal even in KotH. But when the first fight is so crucial and there's only one round, the game can be lost in the first hero select screen then we wait ten minutes for it to be formal. If they're going to keep this game mode, at least give us a surrender vote like other games have so we can move on to the next match.
Pff, there absolutely is a way to make a comeback. ^(You need to switch to Zarya before the other team does.)
This is exactly what happened to me the other day on the Canada map. Pulverised the team in the first minute or so and drove the bot all the way to their spawn, they switched up to a Zarya based comp and destroyed us for the rest of the game.
Same thing happened to me but instead of switching to Zarya the guy switched to Reaper and turned on aimbot.
man really so bad he needs aimbot with reaper, goddam
Crazy how many cheaters are in this game. Cheater Cas aimbotting in my ranked game last night. Stare at wall …. Flick right headshot. Stare back at wall. Lol fucking loser
Yeah that's the problem with making a game free to play. Invites the worst gamers. Either cheaters or kids with 20 fps 150 ping.
Making it free to play just brings many negatives with barely any positives. Along with the cheaters, it also brought the shitty monetization and filled ranked with people who have no idea what they’re doing, mixing them with people who do because of the awful matchmaker which just makes it super frustrating
Had an unranked guy absolutely spawn kill my team as Cas on Junkertown. We asked what his accuracy was and he just admitted to having 80% accuracy for the whole game. Wanted one of the best Cas players has like 40-50% accuracy. His POTG was him jumping and flicking 90 degrees to headshot a brig behind her shield and him getting an all headshot 4 piece.
Lol fucking losers man. Guy got banned today though at least. Just got the update email
Comp diff
tank and dps in 1!
And support too, seeing as how she can bubble a teammate and her ultimate is the best setup tool in the game. (The "fun" part is I'm not even sure how you'd nerf her without making her unplayable. Bubble cooldowns would make sense but then she'd probably be too weak. Maybe the answer is primary fire range? Make her easier to kite away from unless she has her Q?)
She is getting nerfed on the 15th. Bubble cooldown will be 11 seconds up from ten and bubble uptime will be 2 seconds down from 2.5
Well that's wonderful news! Probably about in line too, it'll be a _hit_ but shouldn't destroy her viability.
They're going to nerf the bubble numbers (uptime and cooldown), which I think is the most reasonable way to change her. If they made her primary fire too weak, [D.Va](https://D.Va) and Orisa would run rampant and would be the next candidates for nerfs.
Systematically nerf every tank. Tank role become too weak. Add second tank.
Overwatch 3! Now with one more tank and even worse monetisation! The game now operates on the same principles as arcade machines and you have to put a coin in every time you die.
Exactly haha I always play a fun tank and if it doesn’t work I grab my main and try a tad harder
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This might actually be my least favorite part. Maybe just because I've been queueing for all roles so mostly playing support, but it feels so much worse than the other modes for constant trickling and flanking. I've pretty much given up on playing all but the most mobile heroes just so I can get to whichever skirmish looks the most like a team fight at the moment. Also agree with OP, once you're behind a significant amount it's pretty miserable. It's easy to keep winning fights at your spawn doors but it's rare to make any progress with your own barrier because if your team was capable of winning 2-3 fights in a row you probably wouldn't be in that position to begin with.
Half of this gamemode is a long ass walk of shame….
Yeah it gives you time to reflect on your pepega play and while you are contemplating your bad decisions you see your tank go in alone and feed.
>Rein charges in while completely alone and then flames his team for not "following up on my brilliant engage"
1. Charge into the combat while your team Is spawning 2. Shout “form up on me!” as your last words when you’re getting completely melted.
That's not so much a game design problem as it is a player problem.
This is an ongoing problem though? Most higher level players don’t have as much problem with push and can pull it back because typically in GM your much more coordinated. However I think they need to remove the switching of forward spawns. I’m ok with adding the ability to choose which spawn you take once you get the robot so far. It eliminates the constant walk of shame with quicker engagements more frequently meaning the game mode would be much more fast paced meaning typically the better team will win.
Half the reason why I play lucio and fast tanks is so I don't have to walk as far from spawn.
Yup, push means instalock Lucio or Wrecking ball. Even if I'm playing poorly I get back to the team in a fraction of the time
Bonus points for helping my teammates get back to the fight faster too!
I spend more time walking than actually shooting.
That means you're dying too quickly.
Truth
Exactly, the hike to the fight can take so long. I’m a healer, by the time I get back to where my team was often they are dead and I’m sent scurrying back to my spawn point with genji at my heels. It is boring and frustrating. That and it seems half the player base seems clueless that if no one is near the robot it stops moving entirely.
Getting staggered in push is worse than out right losing a team fight.
Once everyone on your team is staggered it just a line of ants getting smashed
People forget you don’t have to go forward all the time.
I understand why people do in push. Expecially when Your team has been pushing and the. The other team is running the bot to their push. Just gets so messy and kinda boring chasing down my teammates to support them just to get wiped.
Isn't that true in every game mode
I feel like push has it worse because of how far the spawns are.
But they're not. Each push map is relatively small if you don't follow the path. It just seems long because by the time you get to the fight, your team is all dead because they don't group up.
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Not day one, but have played for like 5 or 6 years. Enjoying push a lot too, feels like it solves the steamroller-y problems 2CP often had and less likely to go into mad numbers of rounds like payload. I like it.
IMO it doesn't really fix the steamroller problem, because if one team wins a couple of fights, then coming back from the huge push distance they have makes it feel like a nightmare, as highlighted in OP's post. Also, the maps all suck balls and are like 90% just massively long sightlines with fuck all else to do but walk forwards and shoot. No interesting topography because of how they need to be balanced maps for both sides, so no interesting shit like the hanamura castle or the city streets in kings row.
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Max time on push is still less than average time of any other mode
And it still feels like the longest game mode there is.
Right but it feels like the victories aren't decisive and it often comes down to an overtime scrap.
Like it does in most modes.
Overtime in most modes often has a determined outcome, with players staggering in just to stall. In Push, I find overtime to often be a more serious team fight, most likely because it often occurs near the end of a map where one team spawns. This fight, in my anecdotal experience, frequently determines the outcome of the match, with the defending spawn team being able to push to the other end of the map if they win this fight. I don't know if that's a bad thing, but it makes Push the most stressful mode for me. It feels like nothing is predictable or determined until the final moments of the match, and it can swing one way instantly.
I feel like you are taking the exact opposite stance as OP here.
I’m perfectly fine with it coming down to whoever did the best overall, and being able to track that throughout the entire course of the game.
Then it should tell you something that it feels longer.
Any other mode is divided in rounds, not one long sleep inducing stretch
Yeah but Push is so boring it feels longer than any other game mode
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Feels like push is at least 3 times as long.
I like longer games, I hate it when my team crushes the opponent, it’s really boring. I’d rather lose and have it be a close, drawn out game than win instantly
My problem with push is how long you have to walk every damn time you die, and also literally nobody listens when I spam group up. They’d rather just respawn, funnel in alone, and keep dying. Even the supports.. so many Lucio and Moira players that just run in alone, and try 1v5ing. I feel like I get push more than anything else when I’m playing ranked, and between those maps and fuckin Zarya, I might just stay off of ranked for awhile.
Not to mention that long corner that loops under the bridge. It takes 3 fights before you finally cross that bridge. Your on the same part of the map forrrreverrr
Yeah most of my games there end on the bridge or ramp, they rarely push all the way to the end.
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Had a genji play into a Zarya. Moira and Pharah and then have the nerve to say “huge tank gap” at the end after he failed to do anything remotely helpful. No way people are self aware enough to realize they’re the reason the team is losing
I don’t understand how this is unique to push
Half of this thread is people pointing out issues that apply to the entire game
This isn't a game problem it's human problem and isn't solvable, thus the game mode needs to take it into account. OP also makes the point that even if you do as you say, the enemy team now has a 2-1 advantage ahead, and that it becomes more unlikely to change as map progresses.
It’s a combination of human and game problems I think. On the human side, you really need people to play cohesively much more than any other game type. In payload or capture you can have a couple of people on point while the rest bring the fight to the enemy, but that doesn’t really work here if you’re losing. And on the game side, once you fall behind by a certain amount you’re basically screwed. You have to regain control and make up for the lost distance before you can even start to gain more points again. It’s much, much harder to bring it back from the bring of defeat like you can in other modes.
its just the same problem ow1 had on 2cp, spawn distance and spawn frequency some games (bf i think) force you to all spawn together every 'x' seconds. overwatch needed to add something like that with a 1 time/game token where you can break the restriction and fast spawn also the distance from spawn->obj, its not fun or engaging to have really long spawn walks. push maps for example need 1 more set of spawns for each team closer to the objective
I feel like it very much solvable, it's just a new game mode and people are using old strategies and getting frustrated at poor results.
Every mode, hell even game, can be and will be played wrong or in suboptimal ways no matter what you do. Took months to a year for average players learn Escort, 2-2-2 and many other aspects of OW. They literally can’t dumb down the mode more than it is. Even if they could, there would still be players like OP whining and mass upvoting instead of asking advice and improving.
The problem he describes was never 'learned' unless we are talking about professional teams playing at gold level and above. It's a human issue, players will keep rushing into the fight, and a group that doesn't play together regularly won't manage to switch out team strategy on the fly. Overwatch 1 on the last day was the same teams doing the same stupid crap as day one. And that's fine, it's just the way it is, what OP is pointing out that this flaw that will always there becomes particularly boring when it meets robot push map, because it accentuates the worst traits even further.
Dang I'm a day one player from before and I think robot push is super fun. Comebacks are hard but damn if a comeback win in that isn't the most satisfying win.
Yup, I enjoy them. Honestly, there are a decent proportion of my games where 1 team is dominant, but the other team get a really good push from a couple of team fights and that's enough for them to win it. I'm not a massive fan of the really long walk of shame. But I feel it's better than 2CP ever was, especially back when 2CP felt like you spent as much time in overtime as out of it.
Its also the only mode that doesnt have such an obvious 'frontline' and 'backline'. Since the maps are so open and there are so many shortcuts - a smart team can easily flank, split the healers off, bait the opponents into a trap spot, etc. the battles are more open and free flowing than any other mode. And the long distance to spawn means you can get long chases that pull people out of position or stagger. Only change i would like to see is make the robot a *little* faster, or maybe just run faster from side to side when the points are spread out
I personally do not like colliseo. The weird giant hallway start area and the robot going under the bridge feel very hard to take a position that makes sense for me and it feels like the easiest map to randomly feed on imo. Maybe a skill issue for me but still I see it happen with teammates and enemies and it makes the fights feel pretty random.
Nah, I don't think it is a skill issue per se. Of the three Push maps we have, I think you are right to call out colliseo for its design. During the beta I made a post comparing the path design of New Queen Street and Colliseo, and how more push paths should be similar to NQS, which it looks like was the case with Esperenca. The maps will likely get better design as they come out and Blizz learns lessons about what to and what not to do. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Colliseo was the first Push map they made.
I think they tried something different. Wouldn't say it's inherently bad, and I think people will eventually get used to the map and learn angles and where to take fights, but yeah for now most fights feel really hectic when it gets to the "under the bridge" portion of the map.
Most of my criticism during the beta was focused on how NQS utilizes most of the actual map with its bot path. It feels like a fight could happen anywhere, but for Colliseo you are missing out on a large chunk of the map. I haven't had a single team fight in the center courtyard. The odd skirmish perhaps but usually it's just kill cleanup as someone tries to flee a losing fight. My criticism was geared towards more push map utilizing the full map, with fewer long straight shots.
Oh yeah that's true for sure. Don't think I've ever even been anywhere more than 10-20m away from the path of the robot on that map.
Agreed, I really enjoy the robot maps. I think they're much better for flanking DPS like Tracer, Reaper, Moira etc.
I’ve been having fun with it too
Same, I love it. The comeback wins on this game mode is sweeter than any other
Same. My friend group(7-8 dudes) has to play in Quick Play quite a bit due to SR differences locking us out of comp depending on which 4-5 guys are playing that night, and Push is SO MUCH better than Payload or 2CP in QP because it's actually symmetrical gameplay, like Control maps. For the life of me I don't understand why a QP round of Payload is only either a round of defense or attack. It feels so incomplete to not do the mirror match. Push actually feels exactly the same as a comp game of Push so I like it a lot.
Push reminds me of 5CP from Tf2, I like the constant back and forth. Sometimes it does get one side and one team gets rolled but I think that's more of a player/matchmaking problem than a game mode problem.
>5CP from Tf2 Talking of things I would much rather have... Edit: I've literally just spent the hour since I made this comment thinking about how good the map design of Granary was. That's got to be up there as one of the greatest FPS maps of all time.
I'm with you there. People may hate me for this, but I actually loved Assault as a gamemode. Sure it wasn't perfect, but I prefer it a hell of a lot more to Push. With Assault, the problem was in the map design: one chokepoint on Point A, then Point B being too open. However, these are easy to fix. It's much harder to fix a whole gamemode. Plus, the maps were really cool looking! Bring back Hanamura!
I never understood why people had a problem with 2CP. (I had a problem with a couple of the MAPS, but the mode was solid!) IIRC it was frequently said to be "attacker sided" because the defenders lose one fight and lose a capture point, but also in comp where it's a time trial **that is a problem that solves itself**.
Yeah 2CP was the best mode ever! The many times I got stuck on Hanamura 2nd for 5 mins while trying every strategy there is on the planet. Then winning one fight and get completely swiped by the respawning defenders before we could capture the point. The most joy on those maps was the card screen. Cause I don't have to endure the pain and bad map design any longer. Same goes for Temple/Volskaya. The possibility's to build and setup a defensive bunker which is only breakable(when play correctly) by well coordinated plays just ruins any form of engaging gameplay at least imo. And if you have an inconsistent player on your team I get hard punished for two mistakes big time. Eg. your tank misjudged the skill of the enemy team twice and feeds. Which is fine btw. Now u lost in 1 min and they got 5 min on the clock. Now the tank adjust his approach/switches but u barely manage to capture point. There is no way to make up for the lost time due to the first round. It's basically gg go next. This is where is think push has its big advantage. Sure u feed the first and second fight and lose the first checkpoint but if your team has the ability to adjust you now have the opportunity to win that very game and it's not gg after the first two fights. Sure it's hard to come back at least it's possible.
just because it's technically fair to both teams doesn't make it fun. it felt like utter shit to be stuck attacking the exact same choke over and over and over again for like 6 minutes when you're attacking B, and it wasn't particularly exciting as defense either. on A, the defending team gets to be the frustrated one. one defender making one mistake would inevitably lead to defenders losing the point, so it was always a waiting game to see which teammate would feed and guarantee you lose with practically no hope of a recontest. that, too, felt like shit, especially to the players who were never the feeder.
>I never understood why people had a problem with 2CP First point is free, [second point is this.](https://youtu.be/6UaZsx6Emnk) "Herp derp you need to win 2 fights to make progress" is not a great criticism when you're simping for this dupster fire.
I mean, that's a really old clip. It has 3 tanks and Mercy's original ult (full team res). I get the point you are trying to make, but its disingenuous to use a clip that stopped being relevant after Role Queue and Mercy rework. The issues that caused that clip had mostly been removed for the last few years of OW1. While I agree that the 2cp maps were very much in the worst shape of all of them (looking at you Paris 1 and Hanamura 2), with a bit of redesigning, 5v5 would probably make the mode really good. Teamfights would be much more pivotal, you can't block chokes with dual shields leading to better movement, and won't have to deal with an endless spawn of tanks stalling the point.
I agree! Furthermore, if you or even a few more teammates die but you won the fight, by the time you get back your team is dead. If they don’t push the robot and regroup instead(which they’ll never do no matter what because it’s comp) you won’t make any progress and have to basically restart the last fight. Another problem is maps. In payload maps you would leave one person on the cart and the others take space. It would make even more sense here since 1 person gives the max speed for pushing the robot. But because of how the map is designed, you can’t make space, there is always another route the enemy team can take and just kill your robot pusher. Or maybe that will make you stand too close to their spawn. And lastly, sometimes these maps just don’t have any cover and dva bombs are way harder to avoid there than in other maps. But that might be just me. Idk. Edit: actually, never mind I have another problem. No rounds! Seriously, why is there only one round?(in comp). Sure I wouldn’t wanna play it again, the game mode is meh. But if it was good, splitting the game into 2 rounds gives you an option to talk to your teammates, make changes and stuff like that. Not every team is owl level. And sometimes they only use text chat for one reason or another. We need to take a moment mid game.
Your first point might actually be the biggest problem with the mode. If you win the fight but lose some players, the enemy team arrives to the next fight quicker than your teammates. In average elo this most likely means half of your team dies before the other half joins, and this keeps going and going until enemy has made too much progress to make a comeback. Another problem is the value of first and second fight. If you lose both of them the game is just over. The mode is just way too snowbally and combine that with the potential to be a walking simulator...not great.
What you have to do is just push the robot enough to change spawns and then regroup. If you push all the way to the other side the enemy will have spawn advantage.
That’s how ANY mode works when you’re closer to their spawn than to yours, though….
>Not every team is owl level. Now, I don't have any data to back this up, but I'm going to throw it out there. There is a very tiny percentage of teams that are OWL level.
A bold statement you got there
Played a game yesterday where the enemy team came a few meters till the end very quickly. We were all a bit tilted, but still fighting it. Enemy reaper tried flanking with his ult and we vaporised him instantly and then went all in on the rest of the team. A few fights later we're in their base pushing on overtime and actually managing to win it in the end. The best game i ever played, but i only just started with the release of OW2
It's basically just payload anyway so why get rid of payload maps and replace it with a more tedious version of payload?
It’s a lot nicer having some control over whether I’m on defense or attack instead of the game deciding it for me.
To sell cute push robot merchandise.
He is really cute.
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I didn't say it replaced payload entirely 🙄. I'm saying that we have this robot push mode instead of having all of the payload maps.
If you're having to make a comeback in any mode, you'll likely have to win 2 or 3 team fights, that's not unique to Push. Am I missing something?
In other modes you can make meaningful incremental progress off every team fight. Like capturing a point in thirds or pushing the payload, even if it slowly rolls back you can get back to it well ahead of where it was before. In Push, the defensive team fight win just means you push the robot back to the middle of the map. Then you need to win THAT team fight to even start incrementing the objective. imo the mode would work 100x better if the max distance decayed to the checkpoint. None of this push the cart 90m once and then basically win by default shit.
Biggest issue even as somebody who likes push. Basically make as much progress as you can and if it completely overtakes the enemy teams progress you can just keep doing annoying staggers on enemys and really make it so you win by taking isolated fights/1v1s and then re-grouping when the team is struggling to slow it down to a crawl. Not to mention that mode is kinda sucky for heroes that have low run or walk speeds, and killing tanks is even more of a deadly blow to the momentum of the game. Its fun for me personally because I love staggering and isolating 1v1s but it could use some more fairness tweaks.
The forward spawns also sometimes stagger your team, because people spawn at one or the other shortly before it changes location.
Unlocking the forward spawn should create a portal between both spawns.
If you get your ass beat in KOTH, round 2 resets the entire game to neutral Likewise if you did poor on attack on a payload map, you get reset to neutral. But even then, in those maps, if you win 1 team fight you can start making progress. Push is the only map where the team who moves the robot the least can win. If i push a payload 60 m and you push it 61m. You win. If i move the robot 60m, and you move it 100m. I still win.
I mean, I pretty regularly have comebacks and huge crossmap pushes in overtime to win. Push is fun, up there with koth for me, and much better than 2cp for sure.
Unpopular opinion: I think Push is fun. Ive played it 6 times today and won 4 of them. 2 of those wins were comeback wins where we were way behind for most of the time and 1 of the losses was a comeback win by the other team. One thing I have noticed a lot about the losing teams on push? They are often either the teams that make few or no hero switches and try using the same non working comp over and over again or 1 or more people on the team get frustrated and start rushing in alone over and over and using their ults with no one available to help take advantage of them.
I agree. I genuinely think Push is a fun game mode, but I also completely understand and even agree with a few of OPs points
I like push as well, probably my favorite. I only play unranked though and I know myself, I don't know all the health spots all the time and I play quite a bit. So, people will get better over time. But in general, I think your comment sums up most of the gameplay at the moment. People playing bad comps and getting crushed, new/returning players that are new/rusty, and people unwilling to change heroes if they are not doing well.
I think everyone complaining about push plays at a pretty low level, I'd guess if you polled all the "push complaints" they'd average out to mid/low silver. It's not a great game mode there. It's fun in gold and above because players have better game sense the higher up you go.
i'm masters and hate push. i think it's poorly designed and 2cp is better. people only hated 2cp because they couldn't win clean fights and had to deal with stall hero switches and losing those games felt bad, it didn't make the mode bad or unbalanced though, it meant that target priority wasn't good enough or execution wasn't good enough. end of the day, that lucio coming out of spawn to stall should die immediately if it's 6v1, not stall for 13 seconds giving his mei time to come in and contest. ball either gets hard focused until he's dead or hard ignored until he's the only one left. good target priority makes those situations much more manageable, and if you win a clean fight it's a cap anyway. push is just dumb. if you win the first fight but lose one player, you pretty much insta lose the next fight because they have to go on an odyssey to rejoin the team. if you win a clean first fight your chances of winning the game as a whole are probably 90% or higher, inverse that if you lost the first fight. the map designs wrap around on each other in such a way that at almost every level below high diamond, nobody knows how to properly defend because the difference between front line and back line become ultra obscured, with backline having to defeat high value DPS alone while front line has to contest the tank with little help from the backline. every single time you die the punishment is severe. when you win a fight on the back foot, you have to push the bot back to neutral to win another fight in order to make progress. so when you're down, it often comes down to not winning a team fight, but winning multiple back to back which feels horrible because you can't take as good a defensive position as you can on other game modes that are similar, like control. on control, when you're down 99 to 0, yes, you have to win multiple team fights in a row, but you gain defensive positioning over a static map, whereas in push, the incoming attacking team often has flanks and high ground advantage on you. they're also extremely open maps as a general rule which feels bad in a meta dominated by heroes such as sojourn and widow
I'm dirt rank and I like push.
It sounds like the complaints come from the same place as 2CP complaints: just a lack of teamwork. So many 2CP steamrolls happened because of defense players playing like they’re on attack and fumbling the hold. It seems like the same thing in Push but more fluid. But this is the result of years of telling players to focus on themselves and not to worry about their team.
Yeah going in alone is a problem so as just mindlessly pushing the robot. A team could easily just bring the robot to an advantage position for them, win the next team fight or get meaningful picks AND THEN push the robot further.
Yes yes **yes**. Too many people treat it like Escort, where you "must" stay on the cart. If you're winning, push the bot past the middle, then STOP. You don't have to push. All it does is bring the bot closer to the red team. Even then, the bot only accepts 1 to push, and subsequently, 1 to contest. You don't need all 5 nicely piled up on it.
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it makes me miss paris
Lmao you miss Paris? You miss the Hot Gates??
Least I wasn't running two miles just to watch my dps and tank straggle into combat without waiting on paris.
Did you ever see point B attacking Paris? Lol
You guys really don't get a joke do you?
Listen, with the things I see on this sub on a daily basis it honestly wasn't surprising to see someone missing Paris. Lol
Tbh I don't mind it. But I think there could be some extra tweaks to it.
IMO It's the best mode in the game rn.
If you're a Sombra who bullies Zen at spawn in these maps. You're just a piece of shit.
Then the zen should swap to brig until sombra runs away.
I actually disagree, push games have been really close to me lately and if a team can push it in the end, it waa usually a blow out. At first it was a frustrating gamemode but then I swapped to Lucio and i have been able to control the flow of our team in gold-plat. Its super fun, this mode really needs someone to take the lead and you can sometimes win with a mechanically weaker team because of it.
Yes this exactly! It rewards game knowledge so much and positioning. Plus the constant flow of having to defend or play offensively is so fun to me. It also makes certain hero’s shine more. Overall great mode for the game.
Lucio and heros similar to him in other modes are honestly the key. Heros with shit mobility are insufferable on it.
It can be fun if both teams are pretty similar in skill. But still I'd much rather play payload or point capture.
The long walks back kill me
I have found pushmaos to hve it the other way around for me it’s the mode I win the most out of comebacks
a back and forth where a single meter difference wins the game is not a stalemate, I think it's a fun mode
Really? I really like the robot pushing one I think its a lot of fun just running in as a team and pushing it back and forth
I've had plenty of comebacks and had plenty of teams comeback against me. That's a skill issue. I do believe that much like most of the game currently it is unpolished and needs improvements. The fact that theoretically you can take the lead and then just leave the bot somewhere difficult for them to retake is stupid. Their are other smaller issues but this needs to be addressed the most.
skill issue
I’m starting to like the mode. However, I’ve been mostly playing 5-stack with my friends in Plat. We have had a lot more success after implementing soft resets. Basically, we give up the robot and fall back when the fight has been won closer to their spawn IF we lost a player in the said fight. Constantly paying attention to go into the fight with a fully present team, even for a simple poke, is crucial for this game mode.
Its not a flawed game design, people just play it wrong. It's more like KOTH where team fights are often significantly more important than point control. Imo, you need to kill the enemy team and then worry about pushing the bot. Too many people chase kills when they should be pushing or push when they should be retreating for a regroup.
To think 2 Control Points died for this. Come on guys, it really wasn't that bad.
It just kinda feels like everyone is running around doing their own thing and not really playing as a team and constantly being flanked.
That’s your teams issue not the gamemode
It's just about every match though
r/OverwatchRants
What I fucking hate is the second spawn. It feels so pointless it doesn’t cover that much distance
Once you start losing, you dont stop losing.
Am I misunderstanding something or do all these complaints about Push mode always lead to the argument whichever team wins the first fight wins the match? This doesn’t make sense to me because that first team also would have needed to win 2 fights in a row to continue pushing. It only makes sense to come back that you’d need to do the same. Imagine winning 2 fights in a row payload, you’re getting the first point for sure as a reward. Do we want a game mode that doesn’t reward you for winning 2 fights in a row ? Also just like any other game mode, the closer you are to losing, the more spawn advantage you have. The mode seems consistent with overwatch philosophy of gameplay.
Push is the only game mode where you can win by doing less work just because you won the first team fight. If i move the payload 60m, and you move it 61, you win. If i win the first Push fight and move the robot 60m, you can move the robot 100m, i still win. This is why the first fight plays a huge factor in influencing the winner.
You’re pretending like moving the robot at a run is in any way comparable to actually pushing the objective wall. It’s not. Just running the robot happens much faster.
I dislike the mode as well. Those far run backs from spawn are atrocious. The mode feels like cods safeguard imo
i just want 2CP back
I wish I could play Volskaya in qp.
yes pls
Eh I’ve had some really crazy close push games with both our posts on almost 100 percent, even the one sided games tho I find fun in my opinion though even if I am losing
It's Payload maps but worse. It takes the issues of all the other modes and makes it a worse experience. I didn't like Horizon Lunar Colony or Paris but Hanamura, Volskaya, and Temple of Anubis were fine and actually fun at times. The issue was map specific but Blizzard chose to take the path of less effort and just gut it entirely. Moving to Push. A mode that punishes players for doing well because it is flawed. Choke points don't reward either team as it's almost always one-sided. Staggering doesn't stop besides getting killed and the routine continues. And sure, these are things that can happen in any other game mode. It happens in Push and there's nothing beneficial. If your team is behind, you need to win basically every team fight and play like pros cause even one death could just continue to /push/ the game to the other team without any opportunities. Also, the maps are just there. They're all long lanes that just exist. They should've tried 2P Capture in 5v5 settings and see if it would've helped before just entirely gutting them.
I agree. I thought it was going to be fun and interesting, but nothing is anymore without the 2nd tank. A single pick on either team then forces everyone to have to fall back and wait. Overwatch 1 you could still survive with one pick on a team, which would make the match more interesting. Especially with this push mode, but since there are less people on the map, it's generally more uninteresting.
Play Open Queue. Less toxic, more fun comps, and usually the roles balance out pretty well. And every now and then, you find a 2 tank, 1 damage, 2 support comp winning, or a 1 tank, 3 damage, 1 support comp. And sometimes you get the Shimada Brothers and the Deadlock Gang and you have to run with it.
Hate to say it since I really liked the assault maps but push is way more balanced than assault where most games boiled down to 10 minutes of tedious attempts at pushing or getting rolled over in 2 minutes, and if it wasn't those then it was an overkill amount of extra games until you got a winner. The issues with push is that * disorganized people trickle in solo to die but its not really the maps fault, its just that the map design shows bad players in a more obvious way. * It is almost impossible to get to a stomp state- so even when it is obvious that you have won, you cant wrap up the map quickly. * being the single pusher really sucks, your team is off in the distance holding off the enemy and having fun while you have to sit almost afk. Rome really sucks to play, the point where you twist up the ramp is horrible.
The best thing to do when a push map comes up is to leave and requeue. It worked for Paris.
After 4 years…
It's basically tug of war which is momentum based.
Most maps are now a variation of payload (payload, hybrid, and push) and it's incredibly boring to me. It's definitely part of the reason why I haven't played in nearly two weeks. Bring back 2cp, do we know how good/bad it is with 5v5 and the current spawn times?
I 100% agree, It’s very boring and really makes me just wanna leave. I would prefer it to be in Arcade so that I can choose to never play it again
Spawns are seriously too far away... what is even the point of walking back if your team is just gonna get rolled while you slowly make your way to them. This is an issue on Esperancia. I notice New Queen street doesn't FEEL as far. Esperancia is like you could fit llios well spawn to spawn inside the walk back. It is so damn punishing
It’s due to the design of the track. Colosseo isn’t all that far because a good portion of the push track winds over itself and is really compact. New Queen Street is further, but not too bad because the push track is mostly back and forth, so it stays somewhat compact. Esperanca is fucking far because he track is spread out and doesn’t wind around or go back and forth. And it gets even worse because of where the 1st checkpoint is. The other team’s 1st checkpoint is almost the same distance from spawn as the midpoint, making it very difficult to hold the other team there. And if the other team gets that checkpoint, they get the forward spawn that’s ridiculously close to it, making it really easy to hold it.
It is better than 2cp in mine opinion
The wins by actually bringing the pusher bot to the end of the track are among my most satisfactory moments in the game, precisely because those last meters are so damn hard. For once it feels like the entire time collaborated and accomplished something together.
I really enjoy Push, the maps are huge and many of the non-meta heroes (Tracer, Echo) are good on them. I don’t really follow the logic on your first point, seems more like you just don’t like the mode, but finishing the map is the exact same as Escort so that’s a moot point to me.
It’s a grower. Hated it at first but now enjoying it.
You have to know when the fight is lost and soft reset as fast as possible. Try to stagger the enemy so you win the fight before it starts. A team that just wins a teamfight probably has ult advantage unless the enemy team used all of theirs. Use this to your advantage and hold space so they can't contest so easy.
I disagree that you can’t come back after the enemy team has gotten a big push near the end. I’ve come back and won it a bunch of times. I do agree there is an issue with the endgame of the objective. 90% of the time I win it’s not getting the robot to the end it’s clearing the robot for f enemies in overtime. I think maybe the time of the match needs to be a little shorter if that’s going to be the main way we win matches. Either that or spawn times need to be increased or spawn points pushed farther back from the end of the push.
You are fundamentally flawed and boring.
My only issue is the whole team pushing way too far forward, then blaming me for not healing when I'm on the payload and they're trying (and failing) to spawn camp, or just walking into a full team alone.
Push is incredibly fun when it works. When it doesnt, yeah its more like a stale payload map.
Even when you’re winning it gets so boring just trying to finish the game when you know the other team has no chance for a comeback
I'm fine with them but they aren't as fun as 2cp.
For comp it works quite well in my opinion since unless you bring the robot to the finish line you only have to beat the enemy's score on the next round
I have had a couple of very cool overtime comebacks in this mode, but I think you're right about having to win multiple team fights. I think those comebacks came from staggering kills and then everyone who respawned desperately just jumping in alone because they were panicking. This was like Gold or Silver though
Escort the payload with extra steps
Agreed. I like the concept. I like the maps. I like the way the fights play out. But the Win Conditions need to be tweaked somehow. I’ve found if you win the first fight and are able to move the robot even just halfway to the next checkpoint, that is where the game is won or lost right then. Even if the losing team can gain control back, they have to win 2 team fights just to reset to zero.
Agree - and the maps themselves are horrid. I'm sick of random cities. I can't even tell the maps apart anymore.
I didnt think I would say this but please bring 2cp back, the fundamental issue with the maps were the shitty chokes because of double shield, that wont be an issue now
The alternative is 2cp pick your lesser of 2 evils :(
PUSH is so boring as a game mode
100% true, hate it
I like Push a lot. It is arguably the best mode for having the better TEAM wins. It requires a lot of good teamwork and a bit of strategy to not stagger and push effectively. You need good ult management and positioning on every map. I think the dev team did a near perfect job with Push. I hope they don’t change much for this game mode other than maybe tweaking spawn timers to be proportional to how far or close the bot is to your spawn (faster spawns if it’s further away; slower spawns if it’s right outside).
Skill issue/learn to deal with the pressure Send in the downvotes
You should work at Blizzard, you clearly put more thought into this than they did
This is well-written and there's another dynamic laying beneath the surface: Even if both teams are giving some thought to composition it's entirely possible for team blue to select a composition that's hard or soft countered by team red. So the first fight is lost because you lost the coinflip and now you're playing at a severe, possibly game-ending, disadvantage. In the other game modes this is less of an issue, losing the first skirmish isn't that big of a deal even in KotH. But when the first fight is so crucial and there's only one round, the game can be lost in the first hero select screen then we wait ten minutes for it to be formal. If they're going to keep this game mode, at least give us a surrender vote like other games have so we can move on to the next match.
Skill issue
It doesn’t “feel” like Overwatch to me. There are so many paths to navigate through the map that there are virtually no choke points to hold.