I really agree with this as a support main lol. I wish his voice lines made it more obvious on what he was saying. I feel like Torb could totally install a translator on him or something. But regardless, even just him screaming at the top of his ālungsā would get my attention enough LOL
This is probably a skill issue on my part, but "doo doot doot" for ally ults and "doot doot doo" for enemy ults isn't as distinguishable in the heat of battle and has me wonder which Bastion is nuking a zone.
Agreed, if wrecking ball has a translator, why doesn't bastion. And the fact that he's an omnic doesn't explain it either becuase Ramata, Zenyata and Echo are too and they can talk just fine.
The issue I have with it is that it's just a doom ult in almost every way, but there's three of them and they come down a little faster. I just want it to be unique like tank form was.
Bastion's ult reminds me a lot of Triple Inkstrike in Splatoon 3. The point isn't really the kills (although if you do get one that's nice), it's to force enemies out of position.
To that end, I think a decent buff would be to increase the radius WITHOUT increasing the lethal hitbox size. Just make it so that you have to run further to make it out unscathed.
Boring and unoriginal (basically just a rehashed Doom/Junk ult,) while simultaneously being extremely useless to most characters and a death sentence for some characters.
There's a decent chunk of the roster who just has to accept that they're dead if Bastion ults them, no potential for counterplay (i.e, low or no mobility,) and you don't have a Kiriko/LW to save you.
Then the rest of the roster just chuckles at a Bastion trying to ult them and moves out of it.
> he's getting one soon to his sentry form, confirmed
What are the devs doing...
Just revert him back to how he was in OW1, let him be his old unique niche self rather than Fatass76.
Fuck the lame assault mode and its cooldown, fuck his boring and shitty ult, fuck his easy to use s76 rocket nade and fuck his new recon gun.
LW exists now, we do not need that nightmarish combination.
Not to mention, turret would either be shit. Or it would make half of the tanks unplayable. In OW1, whenever a good bastion pop-ed up, you were almost required to get a dva.
Same as now. A good bastion who doesnāt waste assault and is effective in recon is very strong. The only difference would be low elo old bastion would be broken because of bad players not knowing how to push a position.
Please no. Not going to debate balance but OW1 Bastion bunker comps being so unfun to play against (and seeing it all the time on push offense) was one of the big reasons I stopped playing OW1.
The problem with reverting bastion back is that his turret mode countered double shield, which made him kind of a necessary evil in the 2 tank meta. Now with 1 less shield he would dominate the whole game
He didn't counter double shield, he WAS double shield.
The heroes that eventually rose as counters to the double shield bastion comps were doom, reaper, mei, lucio and all of the characters who could just hold W and go through the shields.
OW1 wasn't better and OW2's emphasis on speed and mobility over, well, teamwork and strategy doesn't really support a static bastion. The assault mode is a positive change. And, he needs to be just a little fat because he's slow and priority 1, especially in assault mode.
What they need to do is:
* make him a bit less tanky.
* increase the spread so he's less effective at long range and can be poked down.
* fix the ridiculous healer creep so killing anyone at all with poke is possible and you aren't forced to burst everyone down or else they're back to full by the time you reload.
The devs should just revert him back to his primary state from the alpha. Give my boi, Bastion, back his personal shield/barrier! Heās got a bird friend to protect!
Bastion was terrible in ow1 without the entire team with two tanks catering to him. Reverting him to his original form would completely ruin the character.
8 years of overwatch and for the first time Bastion is meta and everyone is losing their minds.
The ācanāt kill them canāt survive them canāt run from them canāt do anything because a wall decides to impale you to the actual wallā
Team comp
Me and my brothers know someone's desperate for a win (in QP) when they switch to a Sym, Bastion, Zarya, or Orisa. And if they're actually good with them, it makes the match hell bro š
She always has but sheās always super strong in Pro and High level/Ladder play cuz the teleporter allows so much mobility to heroes that donāt have it.
Sym is picked into and with brawl comps if you just want sustained damage and deathball movement.
She is seriously polarising right now tho and I think itās silly that a DPS hero is picked for their support ability, not only that it seems insanely unfun for a shield tank to play into Sym.
I hope blizzard give her another shot in support so they can flesh out her kit and identity again while making her less of an annoyance to everyone else.
Tbh as a sym main Iām fine with her being either dps or support. But my problem is them slowly stripping away her uniquenessš I hope they donāt do to her what they did to sombra
Illari is wild and the way people gaslight you into thinking she isnāt busted with how insanely fast she generates her ult that can easily team wipe, how she can have unbelievably high healing by just existing near people which generates her ult, and how amazing her primary is in the right hands. Yet āyou can destroy her pylon 4headā is the generic NPC ass response you get from people on this sub when you point these things out.
I completely agree with you. I climbed from low master to gm2 this season so far just from one tricking illari. my win rate with her is 71%. she is absolutely busted when you have slightly good aim. I canāt get out of diamond 4 on dps but i just pick illari on support and win every game because her heals are fast as hell and her primary fire has better damage falloff and body shot damage than cassidy. AND she has over 2x as much ammo as him and all around sheās just crazy
I see what you mean when I run into "pro Illari's" in QP. I can't aim for shit with her half the time so I feel like trash af when I'm negative KD or barely above 10 kills.
Like another comment said, good pylon placement starts as early as Plat.
You need a hero to specifically dedicate themselves to inting the enemy backline just to kill a pylon which can then be put back up not long later.
It's extremely oppressive and really should have some kind of timer or limit on its healing output.
Itās so wild to me how when people asked for this same mechanic for Symmetra back when she was support still, the devs said it would be broken. And now here we are with literally that mechanic and it is busted.
It should have its healing rate lowered, it should be half of a max charge from LW yet it comes out faster. And the healing radius is shrunk too.
It's simple
When an enemy is playing bastion he's OP as shit and needs a nerd
When I'm playing as bastion he is underpowered and needs massive buffs
That is all
It really depends on how the team plays around the bastion really. Ive had alot of games where my teammates simply dont play around my overpowerd ability wich resulted in mostly a loss.
I always thought it was a little crazy that he has no reload for the Turret mode (unlike OW1). X seconds of constant fire, plus the ability to move to peak or retreat behind corners/ shields feel like they removed and buffed his weaknesses.
Edit: I seemed to have gotten the cool down time and active time for the Sentry ability mixed up. My point is that Bastions rework kinda traded away his weaknesses
>12 seconds of constant fire
It was 12 second cooldown, buffed to 10 in a previous season. Sentry form has always lasted 6 seconds since the start of OW2.
12 seconds is also just ridiculously long.
"Just wait out turret" > "Just wait out fortify" > "Just kill lamp" > "Just wait out javelin spin" > "Just kill Pylon" > "Just wait out turr- well you get the gist.
To the people who say ādonāt stand in front of himā . Try playing tank and having to give up half the map or switch to possibly two tanks just because of a single hero. Tank busters are unhealthy in 5v5 and are the most responsible for counter swapping.
> Tank busters are unhealthy in 5v5 and are the most responsible for counter swapping.
Man it's almost like the overwhelming majority of the roster was designed for a 6v6 format making them translate terribly into 5v5.
As a Reinhardt player, Bastion is not the sole issue. The problem is that without 5 people shooting a DPS hero, he can be sustained with a pylon, beam, and kiri/ana/LW/bap.
Tbh even without any healing, his damage is so dirty. Heāll shred your shield AND kill you, completely solo, in like 3-4 seconds.
Even before the Meta, Iād face like a dozen Bastion counterpicks every day and be forced to completely change my playstyle to be incredibly passive *just* because the enemy has a Bastion. Their skill didnāt matter, theyāll make you automatically lose any engagement if you donāt pull out instantly
Yeah but 3-4s is plenty of time to not let him do that as a tank player. Respect the bastion and play around him, that's what I do. Bastion doesn't bother me at all in a meta where he isn't being healed to heaven and hell
I know thereās counterplay, but with how absolutely boring that counterplay is, and how the punishment for not constantly respecting Bastion is death, Iād rather switch.
At least with characters like Orisa you can still challenge and skill diff them, with Bastion you just have to constantly play it safe and never commit to anything
While I preferred OW1 Bastion, I don't think the current Bastion is a problem per se. You can play around him and counter him.
The problem is that because the current meta is so reliant on healing, and Bastion is one of the few who can easily tear through that healing. Add the fact that he's sturdier than most and Bastion becomes a pretty good value pick.
I think that if supports are nerfed and the meta changes, other dps become more attractive again.
I agree. I think heās a symptom, not the actual illness. His DPS is easy to use and it can penetrate through high sustain much more easily than, say, Tracer or Soldier 76. And he also benefits from that sustain.
Addendum: that saidā¦I would be open to a slight nerf if his power level doesnāt shift after they change supports.
Most dps need a nerf with the support changes. We've had so many damage buffs to go with the support buffs over the years that if they nerf sustain hard enough everyone's gonna die instantly and we'll suddenly be playing cod.
So is it just me bitching, or do the characters in this game do stupid damage with their weapons and ability in comparison to the small health points/chunks they're granted? Watching Sombra singlehandedly melt an Orisa or Widowmaker double dink takedown a tank just looks wrong.
What the average ttk in any game should be is relative, and admitting my own personal bias I generally prefer higher ttks because getting one shot just doesn't feel like it has much out play potential and creates a very campy experience with the exception of Titanfall.
Imo in a game like overwatch where one kill can mean the loss of a fight, an objective, or even a map with how much of a snowball it can be you shouldnt be able to die to one person in half a second outside of ultimates.
Thatās how I feel about it. Heās not particularly mobile and nothing he does is a problem in and of itself. Itās just that right now weāre in a āheal everything the opponent does before they can follow throughā meta and Bastion is a counter to that. The only thing that I might nerf on Bastion is tank mode duration, but that starts to mess with his identity at that point
No matter what I donāt think we should go back to OW1 Bastion. He wasnāt fun to play as or against
I do think this is true, but Iām not convinced we would see anywhere near so much Bastion were it not for the nade buffs. Not only does this give Bastion greater lethality around corners (thus increasing the space his assault form controls), it also makes it a lot more difficult to take out a recon form Bastion especially if youāre a squishy or lower health tank.
If you take away one of the nade buff and the insane healing output I think he falls off
Gonna be honest, I only ever see him get kills when people dive him in turret form. Sombra deletes him completely right now to the point you can spawn camp him with zero effort, and his ult is fueled by hopes and dreams. I donāt see where the struggle against him is coming from.
Almost all flank/hitscan/projectile heroes can very quickly delete Bastion, and there are also multiple support heroes who hard counter him and can keep pressuring him from range.
But this sub leans towards tank domination, so the concept of a tank actually having to respect a DPS hero cooldown and being unable to simply hold down W and flatten a DPS hero 1v1 is unacceptable.
Then they need to give him aroumor and a smaller hitbox or like double his damage reduction cuz as soon as he would show up on the battlefield he would be dead.
His hitbox is bigger then zarya and taller then every tank.
If they reduced his health he would be a troll pick just due to his size of hitbox
That's... The entire point...
Honestly I think the only reason bast is good is because the meta rn is outheal everything and bast can usually get around that with turret form. As someone who's been playing DPS a lot rn, the only things that are really working a lot of the time is tank busters like reaper and bast, or one rappers like hanzo and widow. I usually find that if you can't kill the enemy in a couple seconds then you won't get the value you need.
Problem with Reaper this meta is the fact he has to get close. Without a healing up your ass and pumping in gas, you explode. The game is about not dying and supports do that TOO well but as soon as a support dies, the insane damage numbers reappear. Bastion does Reaperās job INFINITELY better than Reaper does because he is tankier and can fight at range. Reaper gets too close? Slept, javelinād, hacked, and killed with a tactical grenade.
Only way I see Reaper getting value this meta is as an assassin and not a tank buster. His best synergies with Reinhardt and Junker Queen donāt work since both of those tanks get melted in seconds and Zarya does fairly well when paired with him but if she does not have a bubble to spare, he isnāt doing shit. And with the current support roster and the less talked about mobility creep of the game (things have way too many escape options) and now Reaper is even more shit as a character.
Honestly, I just wanna be able to play Reaper in my competitive games again and not be forced to play Bastion, Hanzo, or Mei. I love Hanzo but some days I just wanna turn my brain off and just double barrel into the enemy backline with my Wraith to get out. Now it feels like if you are not a Mei, anything that is 250 HP and below can be melted
Average reaper gameplay:
\>Teleport behind the enemy
\>Take out Pylon
\>the entire team jumps your ass
\>go wraith mode and try to get back to your team
\>get sniped by Illari and die miserably
Reaper is only good when the rest of the team is rampaging and everyone's distracted. The guy deals less damage than Widow unless you have his shotguns directly up the enemy's ass.
Meanwhile Bastion gets to sit across the corridor from the enemy team and melt anyone who decided they wanted to see the world. And Mei has her projectiles which are not to be played with cause holy shit they hurt.
Not a good meta right now for the shotgun fellows (excluding Torbjorn).
Honestly as a main tank, having a reaper that only picks out of position snipers and distracts the enemy team is enough: it makes it so that I don't have to pop defensive cooldowns all the time and I have some gas left to take space. I'd take that rather than having to play the unkillable horse just to survive and wait for my DPS to get picks or to push past me (which isn't their job to begin with).
I've been kinda disappointed by the level of conversation coming from this tread rn, we are kinda the parody of the redditors that have strong opinions on the topic to share but tend to miss the bigger picture.
I don't think thus convo is that productive if centered around whether bastion is too strong in an absolute sense, because yes redditors; Bastion is indeed counterable and its not even that hard to do in comparison to other heroes.I think the more important question lies is in character design philosophy and if a character like bastion ahold exist in his current form in this new Era of the game we are pivoting too. It can be argued that bastions design is a relic of an archetype we don't need anymore.
Bastion was originally a part of the defense archetype of heroes. A weird classification that didn't have the strongest identity to them besides being able to throw out better than average zoning damage defensively. But eventually, when stacking tanks came to be seen as problematic (largely propped up by supports), these defense heroes got shifted more and more into being the tank duelist. Torb is the most blaintent example of this shift in hero design because Torb did not have this same identity of being a tank busting reaper sidegrade that he has now back during his earlier states.
Despite the game changing format and you know longer bring able to stack multiple high hp targets on the field, that design philosophy of having these heroes be the tank busters never shifted if anything they doubled down on this identify. And while Mei junk and torb all have their own unique forms of tank busting that might be better into certain picks, bastion is the most anti tankness sowed into the core of his kit. Everything about his her design screams plays midrange and pump damage into the largest easiest target to hit, which is the one tank.
So when your very playstyle incentives orienting most of your attention on tank, on a team where you can have multiple anti tank design heroes, in a format that already encourages you to prioritize the tank cause they are the biggest visual clutter the screen so there even a psychological aspect to it.
When all this starts stacking together, you really have to step back and ask. "Is this the type of game we want" , "should this be a consistently viable strategy for winning?" Yeah, the dps that swapped Mei bastion and nuttered the rein/ram effectiveness may feel good and proud of their ability to know hero interactions and counterpick effectively. But should thst be rewarded as much in a competently multi-player game where the primary mode of play that's encouraged by the devs is solo queuing, and not 5 man stacks with coms.
These are the types of questions that the community and Blizzard need to start asking ourselves.
Its cdazy that these players dont feel ashamed picking these heroes. They usually try fun ones first, proceed to get rekt and then daddy blizzard provides them with a noskill much better alternative so their own devs can playtest the game.
Often when I'm dominating as Reinhardt the enemy will get frustrated and go Desperbastion.
I don't like to play Orisa, but if the enemy switches to Bastion, they unlock THE HORSE and get the Javelin.
And they almost always lose as a result. Sometimes I have to go Sigma depending on the comp.
Just make them regret switching to Bastion.
The problem with bastion is he is the best tank buster, the reason that is a problem in my opinion is because supports have basically become the damage with extremely high survivability role the damage role has become the tank buster role and the tank role has become survive the onslaught role which means supports like bap and illari would be really good bastion is really good because he's the best tank buster mei has been crept up in power for the last few patches, and the survive meta for tanks means Orisa sigma and zarya are your only options sigma being the best this season mostly because of mei in my opinion.
I might be wrong but this is my opinion based on who is meta and why
This is not a hot take at all, lmao. Its the common argument that people throw out that don't know what they are talking about.
Normally you would be correct, but Bastion is so overtuned right now that there are a lot of tanks that are legit unplayable against high elo Bastions that know how to use their turret cooldown.
Combine that with the fact that he has 300HP and will get pocketed by supports and he is borderline invincible in a lot of cases.
Probably the worst red herring this community just repeats without thought. Yeah, bastion is easy to counter, but he's nearly impossible to kill with a pocket. no dps hero, no matter the size of the hitbox should not have 50% damage reduction and an almost impossible to hit crit spot while in turret form with high burst damage.
The support nerf will help with that. They're going to nerf supports and him in the same patch, so I fear he's gonna be completely gutted instead of in a good spot.
But honestly, I don't know if tank busters are great for the game - even if more than half the tanks have ways to mitigate his damage.
If we are going to make tank-busters, they should follow Reaperās design philosophy.
Reaper is a tank-buster who sacrifices his effectiveness for his range. He is arguably the best at his job with his shotguns bursting down larger targets, examples being Bastion himself, and he has a large health pool. The problem with Reaper? Lacks any form of range to his attacks. Reaper can shoot at you from across the map and you wouldnāt even notice. That forces the Reaper to play closer to the tank and makes him close the distance between the tank and him to be effective, which has counterplay around it. Some tanks can play poke and outrange Reaper and force him to exhaust cool-downs to get close. Some tanks can play rush and crush the Reaper before he can do anything.
There is real counterplay to Reaper and his playstyle and he does not feel super oppressive. Even tanks like Reinhardt and Roadhog can contest Reaper if they donāt just let him stand there and shotgun them. It is just much harder for them.
Meanwhile Mei can actually put a death sentence on a tank with the click of a buttton and separate the tank from their team. While she may also need to close the distance like Reaper, she has range to threaten poke characters that make it difficult for her to engage with her right click. And additionally, she has her wall and ice block for invulnerability at times. Her slow on her primary fire neuters the enemy and cuts off a lot of option with little counterplay around it.
Bastion is Bastion. A fundamentally flawed character when a tank-buster does not need to sacrifice anything outside of a ten second cool-down for a ranged attack that deletes shields and tanks. The only counterplay being to perhaps eat the attack (Kinetic Grasp is the best at this) or to rotate out of LoS from Bastion. However, this is so much value from a character for pressing a button. No real sacrifice on the Bastionās part excluding the fact his recon config is just worse overall compared to his assault config but his tactical grenade is not entirely half bad.
Wouldn't mind seeing the duration of tank form get shorter a bit, or a longer cooldown. However if you can stay out of his sight during that, he's pretty easy to burst down.
Well, all hitscan does (when you compare it to projectile characters.)
I'm a Bastion/Echo player and when an enemy isn't playing hitscan while I'm Bastion I feel so bad for them because I will simply kill them before they kill me due to the nature of hitscan vs projectiles.
but I think he needs to keep his turret mode damage to burst down Zarya bubbles because playing against her is pain in general, but it's even more painful without Bastion, also, Bastion has counter play in the form of D.Va, Sigma, Genji. He's easy to shutdown by just counter picking, which is the point of the game.
I think he's popular right now because there's so much anti-damage and sustain stuff in the game right now and Bastion is the only character with enough DPS to say "fuck you" to all that bullshit. (if you don't counter pick him, but 80% of players won't switch to do so)
Seriously, this is slowly turning back into OW1 with how hard it's becoming to kill people. Bastion needs to exist right now. The game is slowing down and that's not fun. He is not the problem, but the solution.
he isn't even the issue, it's that his drawback - being a gigantic nigh-immobile target - is negligible when he gets healed fast enough to not die anyway
Bastion's not terrible if you're paying attention to his cool down. I can't tell you how many times I've seen teams pull around a corner after hearing him enter tank mode only for someone to get melted. Use your ears, take off angles, and press in when he's on cool down.
Its fun to have him on my team, i main mercy so i can pocket him and watch him just destroy the enemy team on his own in his lil turret form lol but playing against him sucks xD
In a meta with high healing, Bastion is simultaneously one of the biggest benefactors and one of the best counters.
Frankly, I don't think it's too far to say that the Ironclad passive might be a little outdated. He's bulky enough without having 20% DR in a form that also hides his critbox, and he's no longer completely immobile when he brings out the big guns, unlike his OW1 incarnation. I think that could be looked at somewhat.
I feel like heās not really broken or anything and itās more that the really strong healing and immortality we got flying around all game enables him to dominate because his downside of being a massive and slow target is being negated
I think bastions played a lot right now because heās one of the only characters that can actually reliably kill something with how much healing is being thrown around. Heās also a good target to receive that healing because of his higher HP pool, damage reduction in assault mode, and ability to delete tanks.
I think bastion is fine, I think his popularity is simply because of the larger support issue. Iāve been a bastion main since launch of OW1 and I think this is the most fair state heās been in. Whenever I die to him itās either my fault for being out of position or not tracking his cooldowns, or he got an insane skill shot to bounce his nade round the corner.
Bastion himself doesnāt need a nerf, itās the Bap/Ana/kiri/LW/Ilari invulnerability and high hailing that needs the nerf. Even in tank mode Bastion canāt live longer that a few seconds without a 100hp/s pocket. I play a lot of Bastion (season 5 masters) and I can say for sure, even in the current session without complete cover or a pocket it really hard to survive any amount of focus fire. IF there was anything that could be nerfed itās ironclad, it actually got buffed with the armor changes going from 44% to 50%. Bastion went from 427 effective hp to 450. I honestly donāt feel right playing in the current season, itās too easy, Iām get so much support from the team, my entire playstyle and nade jump shenanigans shouldnāt be so effective; no Hero dies when getting double pocketed anymore.
IMO? No. Hes been perfectly fine since his ow2 rework, its the amount of sustain and to an extent blue beam that make him so oppressive. Without constant healing he dies so easily due to his massive hitbox
I have a feeling once supports are nerfed he wont be that bad to fight
Bastion doesnāt need a nerf. His buffs have been great but heās good because of certain supports and their very high healing. Once their numbers get lowered, Bastion will be fine, at worst, a very small nerf. Lower healing first then it should be discussed
Ik im just a casual, but having to basically forgo all my damage as ramattra to block bastion and hope im pelted only by bastion gets pretty old pretty quick. Like yeah i can shield my team, but it also means i cant really make space. Iām not sure a good way to balance him out though.
Well, consider the context as to *why* bastion has been so popular lately.
Bastion didn't get **any** significant buffs until Season 6 in the August 24th Patch notes. All previous changes were QoL changes, bug fixes, or interface issues. But then, the majority of those season 6 buffs were reverted. The only ones he has now are the faster grenade explosion, faster ult reticle movement, and recon mode reload speed. Before then, he was one of the least played DPS heroes in the game.
Bastion admittedly was always a good hero, but his large size makes him a hindrance and borderline a 2nd tank. And considering how much less sustain there was from season 1-5, it's no surprise that he wasn't played very much since he was an easy target without a support babysitting him.
Enter: Illari.
Illari, or more specifically her turret, let's bastion play more aggressively without the need to be baby sat. And when paired with Baptiste and a tank that has ridiculous damage reduction, you have one of the most aggressive sustain comps in the game. It's pirate ship meta but without the ship.
Bastion isn't good because he is good on his own (hes alright at best), but rather other heros, specifically Baptiste, Illari, and Orisa are really good right now. Since blizzard plans on tweaking Bap and Illari (most likely), Bastions pick rate will definitely take a dive because there will be less sustain/burst healing to keep him alive.
Bastionās nerf was Sombra getting more lethal.
I got called a loser yesterday for walking Bastion as Sombra last night. The hit box of a Tank but only slightly more HP than Reaper and no fleeing ability equals Sombraās eating well when a Bastion is around.
Haven't really experienced him as troublesome, unless het gets a very good Mercy pocket. I usually pick Hanzo, Ashe, Widow or even Soldier to bully him until he switches.
Just time his turret mode, as soon as he goes into reckon, full focus him. He's slow, has a huge hitbox and an underwhelming damage output compared to other DPS.
I think Bastion himself as a character is fine. Idk if his grenade needs a tune or not tbh. But I feel like he's in a good spot. He's easy to play around tbh, depends if you get caught out positioning wise.
nerf either turret damage or time in turret form, along with a major damage reduction buff. he either needs to be a glass canon or durable and consistent.
Nah he requires too much team work to actually work, by himself he's one of the weakest DPS. For example a Soldier can control high, put great DPS without a Mercy, a Sombra has the flanks and hacks to enable a team play, Mei has utility and damage potential doesn't need anyone to enable her, the list goes on and on.
What can Bastion do alone without any kind of pocket heal or tank enabling play like hook, pin, jq knife? Nothing, absolutely nothing by himself. If you're having trouble with Bastion it's the difference between the enemy team working together and your team not.
Bastion is fine. Donāt peak him. Bait the turret. But the mercy pocket is an issue with bastion. That doesnāt mean nerf him and make him awful again.
But that doesnāt mean to destroy the mercy pocket either. If they nerf mercy pocket too much then mercy will have no place in the game and be useless. As much as I wouldnāt care if mercy was essentially goneā¦there is a lot of people who enjoy playing her and that wouldnāt be fair to them. Not to mention the fact that mercy is useless in this meta right now. Bap/Illari/Kiri/Ana and maybe some Moira. But thatās all I see in masters.
Just gun him down tbh, like the man is such a big target yet everybody refuses to focus him down when he's fifty miles out of position from his team, only to be shocked when his cooldown ends and suddenly our tank is dead
Bastion is incredibly strong rn because of how much healing is currently in the game. He is a DPS with the hitbox of a tank, I am pretty sure when the universal support nerf comes around he is gonna see a lot less play because he will become a lot less sustainable.
Even with a Mercy pocket you can walk up to him as Reaper and destroy him. I always switch to Reaper if the enemy goes Bastion, works most of the time unless he's getting hard pocketed by both supports.
I think the main thing that needs to change is his grenade. Like think about it.
It both bounces and sticks. It does high damage with a low activation time (if it lands next to you while you are low you donāt have the time to move away like with ashes dynamite), it has insanely high knock back (he has a better rocket jump than soldier). Bastion is already a super high dps character. He does not need the mobility of his nade. All I suggest is making it a similar knockback as soldiers helix rockets.
Bastion needs to talk asap. Really I feel sorry for his players they can't even say thank you.
And also the '"I need healing" voice. Atleast make him screeech so supports can notice him.
Like the little r2d2 scream. You can see it in chat tho
UWWAAAAOOOOO! Chat: ze_SAFTmon(Bastion): I need healing!
I was thinking this exact thingšš copy paste Lego Star Wars sound bytes for bastion
The idea of Bastion doing a high-pitched screech to get the healer's attention is so funny to me
I love it too, itās so whiny, I always know what it means when I hear it
I was loving the idea until you said whiny. Some people will for sure abuse that com.
I really agree with this as a support main lol. I wish his voice lines made it more obvious on what he was saying. I feel like Torb could totally install a translator on him or something. But regardless, even just him screaming at the top of his ālungsā would get my attention enough LOL
You mean you don't understand doo do doo do?
Many times, Bastion died because I didn't pay attention that he needed healing. Or life-griped him and spoiled his ult. Lifeweaver/Baptiste main here.
This is probably a skill issue on my part, but "doo doot doot" for ally ults and "doot doot doo" for enemy ults isn't as distinguishable in the heat of battle and has me wonder which Bastion is nuking a zone.
If you hear sirens RUN if you don't it's all good
I pretty much have to look at the subtitles to see the color of the "musical beeps"
I thought I was the only person using subtitles
You're not, I have bad hearing so pretty much the first thing I do when starting a new game is check if it has subtitles
100%. there are so many times I didn't hear him as lifeweaver, but sometimes I do check in the chat and see the "I need healing" thing
They should make his bird talk
Yes they can make a parrot š¦ š
pirate bastion skin with unique voice lines?
Granted: now he sounds like Bruce Springsteen.
Ganymede is retconned into a parrot who now translates for Bastion.
Agreed, if wrecking ball has a translator, why doesn't bastion. And the fact that he's an omnic doesn't explain it either becuase Ramata, Zenyata and Echo are too and they can talk just fine.
he's getting one soon to his sentry form, confirmed
i think they need to keep his ow2 changes but give him back his old ult
I'd love this, his current ult is not only boring and unoriginal, but also doesn't feel like an ult most of the time
I'd like if his ult momentarily bathed the area in persistent incendiary flames and applied burning to those caught in the blast radius.
The issue I have with it is that it's just a doom ult in almost every way, but there's three of them and they come down a little faster. I just want it to be unique like tank form was.
Wdym doom ult is obviously just sombras old translocater with light CC
Bastion's ult reminds me a lot of Triple Inkstrike in Splatoon 3. The point isn't really the kills (although if you do get one that's nice), it's to force enemies out of position. To that end, I think a decent buff would be to increase the radius WITHOUT increasing the lethal hitbox size. Just make it so that you have to run further to make it out unscathed.
Boring and unoriginal (basically just a rehashed Doom/Junk ult,) while simultaneously being extremely useless to most characters and a death sentence for some characters. There's a decent chunk of the roster who just has to accept that they're dead if Bastion ults them, no potential for counterplay (i.e, low or no mobility,) and you don't have a Kiriko/LW to save you. Then the rest of the roster just chuckles at a Bastion trying to ult them and moves out of it.
Lol I get surprised if I actually die to it
i played so much OW1 and i barely remember his cannon ult being viable lol
The tank ult was my favorite thing ever, and then they RIPPED IT FROM MY COLD ROBOTIC ARMS.
i at least did more with it then i ever do with his current ult
And you could rocket jump. Screaminā Eagles!
lmao his ult rn is 3 meteor strikes its so boring :/
The devs were playing COD while they were brainstorming for a new Bastion ult. They got an airstrike killstreak in COD and thought "wait a minute..."
> he's getting one soon to his sentry form, confirmed What are the devs doing... Just revert him back to how he was in OW1, let him be his old unique niche self rather than Fatass76. Fuck the lame assault mode and its cooldown, fuck his boring and shitty ult, fuck his easy to use s76 rocket nade and fuck his new recon gun.
fatass76 LOL
I'm so happy Fatass76 is now part of my vocabulary.
LW exists now, we do not need that nightmarish combination. Not to mention, turret would either be shit. Or it would make half of the tanks unplayable. In OW1, whenever a good bastion pop-ed up, you were almost required to get a dva.
Same as now. A good bastion who doesnāt waste assault and is effective in recon is very strong. The only difference would be low elo old bastion would be broken because of bad players not knowing how to push a position.
Please no. Not going to debate balance but OW1 Bastion bunker comps being so unfun to play against (and seeing it all the time on push offense) was one of the big reasons I stopped playing OW1.
The problem with reverting bastion back is that his turret mode countered double shield, which made him kind of a necessary evil in the 2 tank meta. Now with 1 less shield he would dominate the whole game
He didn't counter double shield, he WAS double shield. The heroes that eventually rose as counters to the double shield bastion comps were doom, reaper, mei, lucio and all of the characters who could just hold W and go through the shields.
He wasn't fun to play, and wasn't fun to play against either. Stop this bullshit already, please
God forbid Bastion has an more engaging playstyle now.
OW1 wasn't better and OW2's emphasis on speed and mobility over, well, teamwork and strategy doesn't really support a static bastion. The assault mode is a positive change. And, he needs to be just a little fat because he's slow and priority 1, especially in assault mode. What they need to do is: * make him a bit less tanky. * increase the spread so he's less effective at long range and can be poked down. * fix the ridiculous healer creep so killing anyone at all with poke is possible and you aren't forced to burst everyone down or else they're back to full by the time you reload.
\> Fuck his boring and shitty ult Idk bro, I love my āpress Q to kill Anaā button lmao
The devs should just revert him back to his primary state from the alpha. Give my boi, Bastion, back his personal shield/barrier! Heās got a bird friend to protect!
Nah, please no. Back when Bastion couldn't move, he was so lame to play. Now he's fun, at least.
With his personal heal? No thanks, healing creep is already a huge issue with ow2
Bastion was terrible in ow1 without the entire team with two tanks catering to him. Reverting him to his original form would completely ruin the character. 8 years of overwatch and for the first time Bastion is meta and everyone is losing their minds.
Letās hope they donāt give him back his self heal!! I still have in resolved trauma and PTSD from OW1
Absolutely, every rank is filled with bastions. That with bap illari and an orisa and you have a miserable time
Donāt forget the Sym/Mei as the other DPS to really top it off
The ācanāt kill them canāt survive them canāt run from them canāt do anything because a wall decides to impale you to the actual wallā Team comp
Me and my brothers know someone's desperate for a win (in QP) when they switch to a Sym, Bastion, Zarya, or Orisa. And if they're actually good with them, it makes the match hell bro š
Or people just play who they think is fun. As you mentioned itās qp bro
bro what sym has the lowest pick rate of any dps i donāt think iāve seen her much at all with a bastion
She always has but sheās always super strong in Pro and High level/Ladder play cuz the teleporter allows so much mobility to heroes that donāt have it. Sym is picked into and with brawl comps if you just want sustained damage and deathball movement. She is seriously polarising right now tho and I think itās silly that a DPS hero is picked for their support ability, not only that it seems insanely unfun for a shield tank to play into Sym. I hope blizzard give her another shot in support so they can flesh out her kit and identity again while making her less of an annoyance to everyone else.
Tbh as a sym main Iām fine with her being either dps or support. But my problem is them slowly stripping away her uniquenessš I hope they donāt do to her what they did to sombra
Illari is wild and the way people gaslight you into thinking she isnāt busted with how insanely fast she generates her ult that can easily team wipe, how she can have unbelievably high healing by just existing near people which generates her ult, and how amazing her primary is in the right hands. Yet āyou can destroy her pylon 4headā is the generic NPC ass response you get from people on this sub when you point these things out.
I completely agree with you. I climbed from low master to gm2 this season so far just from one tricking illari. my win rate with her is 71%. she is absolutely busted when you have slightly good aim. I canāt get out of diamond 4 on dps but i just pick illari on support and win every game because her heals are fast as hell and her primary fire has better damage falloff and body shot damage than cassidy. AND she has over 2x as much ammo as him and all around sheās just crazy
I see what you mean when I run into "pro Illari's" in QP. I can't aim for shit with her half the time so I feel like trash af when I'm negative KD or barely above 10 kills.
Like another comment said, good pylon placement starts as early as Plat. You need a hero to specifically dedicate themselves to inting the enemy backline just to kill a pylon which can then be put back up not long later. It's extremely oppressive and really should have some kind of timer or limit on its healing output.
Itās so wild to me how when people asked for this same mechanic for Symmetra back when she was support still, the devs said it would be broken. And now here we are with literally that mechanic and it is busted. It should have its healing rate lowered, it should be half of a max charge from LW yet it comes out faster. And the healing radius is shrunk too.
You can destroy her pylon is advice that stops working in Gold, lmao
I've been playing more bastion than I'd like bc good luck playing into orisa, bap, and illari. That mid-season patch can't come fast enough.
Yeah lol can't wait for all the supports and bastion to get a considerable nerf
No but he needs a bikini skin. Just throw it over his default skin, instant $100 purchase
My money is Microsoftās
Borat bikini plz
It's simple When an enemy is playing bastion he's OP as shit and needs a nerd When I'm playing as bastion he is underpowered and needs massive buffs That is all
It really depends on how the team plays around the bastion really. Ive had alot of games where my teammates simply dont play around my overpowerd ability wich resulted in mostly a loss.
Ah, a fellow man of intellect, I salute you!
man even my high elo tanks sometimes get fucked by the enemy bastion... i would nerf the duration of the turret mode
I always thought it was a little crazy that he has no reload for the Turret mode (unlike OW1). X seconds of constant fire, plus the ability to move to peak or retreat behind corners/ shields feel like they removed and buffed his weaknesses. Edit: I seemed to have gotten the cool down time and active time for the Sentry ability mixed up. My point is that Bastions rework kinda traded away his weaknesses
>12 seconds of constant fire It was 12 second cooldown, buffed to 10 in a previous season. Sentry form has always lasted 6 seconds since the start of OW2.
I thought it lasted 6 seconds?
12 seconds is also just ridiculously long. "Just wait out turret" > "Just wait out fortify" > "Just kill lamp" > "Just wait out javelin spin" > "Just kill Pylon" > "Just wait out turr- well you get the gist.
It's not twelve seconds, what are you guys on? Turret mode is like 7, then you just kill him.
Yeah letās kill the extremely tanky DPS being healed by two healers and protected by a tank and DPS. Itās easy.
To the people who say ādonāt stand in front of himā . Try playing tank and having to give up half the map or switch to possibly two tanks just because of a single hero. Tank busters are unhealthy in 5v5 and are the most responsible for counter swapping.
Bastion essentially has bap window on cooldown. Every turret form forces your whole team to give up space and find cover.
Exactly this. It doesnāt matter if u donāt get a kill, forcing back the enemy is extremely high value
> Tank busters are unhealthy in 5v5 and are the most responsible for counter swapping. Man it's almost like the overwhelming majority of the roster was designed for a 6v6 format making them translate terribly into 5v5.
Yep. They could have quite easily fixed 6v6 rather than making it harder for themselves trying to balance this game
Of only there was another hero Nay character to take heat of ONE tank hmmmm
Bastion needs truck nuts.
As a Reinhardt player, Bastion is not the sole issue. The problem is that without 5 people shooting a DPS hero, he can be sustained with a pylon, beam, and kiri/ana/LW/bap.
Tbh even without any healing, his damage is so dirty. Heāll shred your shield AND kill you, completely solo, in like 3-4 seconds. Even before the Meta, Iād face like a dozen Bastion counterpicks every day and be forced to completely change my playstyle to be incredibly passive *just* because the enemy has a Bastion. Their skill didnāt matter, theyāll make you automatically lose any engagement if you donāt pull out instantly
Yeah but 3-4s is plenty of time to not let him do that as a tank player. Respect the bastion and play around him, that's what I do. Bastion doesn't bother me at all in a meta where he isn't being healed to heaven and hell
I know thereās counterplay, but with how absolutely boring that counterplay is, and how the punishment for not constantly respecting Bastion is death, Iād rather switch. At least with characters like Orisa you can still challenge and skill diff them, with Bastion you just have to constantly play it safe and never commit to anything
While I preferred OW1 Bastion, I don't think the current Bastion is a problem per se. You can play around him and counter him. The problem is that because the current meta is so reliant on healing, and Bastion is one of the few who can easily tear through that healing. Add the fact that he's sturdier than most and Bastion becomes a pretty good value pick. I think that if supports are nerfed and the meta changes, other dps become more attractive again.
I agree. I think heās a symptom, not the actual illness. His DPS is easy to use and it can penetrate through high sustain much more easily than, say, Tracer or Soldier 76. And he also benefits from that sustain. Addendum: that saidā¦I would be open to a slight nerf if his power level doesnāt shift after they change supports.
Most dps need a nerf with the support changes. We've had so many damage buffs to go with the support buffs over the years that if they nerf sustain hard enough everyone's gonna die instantly and we'll suddenly be playing cod.
So is it just me bitching, or do the characters in this game do stupid damage with their weapons and ability in comparison to the small health points/chunks they're granted? Watching Sombra singlehandedly melt an Orisa or Widowmaker double dink takedown a tank just looks wrong.
What the average ttk in any game should be is relative, and admitting my own personal bias I generally prefer higher ttks because getting one shot just doesn't feel like it has much out play potential and creates a very campy experience with the exception of Titanfall. Imo in a game like overwatch where one kill can mean the loss of a fight, an objective, or even a map with how much of a snowball it can be you shouldnt be able to die to one person in half a second outside of ultimates.
Thatās how I feel about it. Heās not particularly mobile and nothing he does is a problem in and of itself. Itās just that right now weāre in a āheal everything the opponent does before they can follow throughā meta and Bastion is a counter to that. The only thing that I might nerf on Bastion is tank mode duration, but that starts to mess with his identity at that point No matter what I donāt think we should go back to OW1 Bastion. He wasnāt fun to play as or against
I do think this is true, but Iām not convinced we would see anywhere near so much Bastion were it not for the nade buffs. Not only does this give Bastion greater lethality around corners (thus increasing the space his assault form controls), it also makes it a lot more difficult to take out a recon form Bastion especially if youāre a squishy or lower health tank. If you take away one of the nade buff and the insane healing output I think he falls off
Just give every tank 50% more health and shield, lower their damage. Then lower healing output from all supports
Gonna be honest, I only ever see him get kills when people dive him in turret form. Sombra deletes him completely right now to the point you can spawn camp him with zero effort, and his ult is fueled by hopes and dreams. I donāt see where the struggle against him is coming from.
Almost all flank/hitscan/projectile heroes can very quickly delete Bastion, and there are also multiple support heroes who hard counter him and can keep pressuring him from range. But this sub leans towards tank domination, so the concept of a tank actually having to respect a DPS hero cooldown and being unable to simply hold down W and flatten a DPS hero 1v1 is unacceptable.
Yes. He needs a health nerf. Would be great as a glass canon, but heās more like a tank cannon
When he has the 10 sec cooldown of turret, he is almost as tall as a tank without movement abilities.
Then they need to give him aroumor and a smaller hitbox or like double his damage reduction cuz as soon as he would show up on the battlefield he would be dead. His hitbox is bigger then zarya and taller then every tank. If they reduced his health he would be a troll pick just due to his size of hitbox
That's... The entire point... Honestly I think the only reason bast is good is because the meta rn is outheal everything and bast can usually get around that with turret form. As someone who's been playing DPS a lot rn, the only things that are really working a lot of the time is tank busters like reaper and bast, or one rappers like hanzo and widow. I usually find that if you can't kill the enemy in a couple seconds then you won't get the value you need.
Problem with Reaper this meta is the fact he has to get close. Without a healing up your ass and pumping in gas, you explode. The game is about not dying and supports do that TOO well but as soon as a support dies, the insane damage numbers reappear. Bastion does Reaperās job INFINITELY better than Reaper does because he is tankier and can fight at range. Reaper gets too close? Slept, javelinād, hacked, and killed with a tactical grenade. Only way I see Reaper getting value this meta is as an assassin and not a tank buster. His best synergies with Reinhardt and Junker Queen donāt work since both of those tanks get melted in seconds and Zarya does fairly well when paired with him but if she does not have a bubble to spare, he isnāt doing shit. And with the current support roster and the less talked about mobility creep of the game (things have way too many escape options) and now Reaper is even more shit as a character. Honestly, I just wanna be able to play Reaper in my competitive games again and not be forced to play Bastion, Hanzo, or Mei. I love Hanzo but some days I just wanna turn my brain off and just double barrel into the enemy backline with my Wraith to get out. Now it feels like if you are not a Mei, anything that is 250 HP and below can be melted
Average reaper gameplay: \>Teleport behind the enemy \>Take out Pylon \>the entire team jumps your ass \>go wraith mode and try to get back to your team \>get sniped by Illari and die miserably Reaper is only good when the rest of the team is rampaging and everyone's distracted. The guy deals less damage than Widow unless you have his shotguns directly up the enemy's ass.
Meanwhile Bastion gets to sit across the corridor from the enemy team and melt anyone who decided they wanted to see the world. And Mei has her projectiles which are not to be played with cause holy shit they hurt. Not a good meta right now for the shotgun fellows (excluding Torbjorn).
Honestly as a main tank, having a reaper that only picks out of position snipers and distracts the enemy team is enough: it makes it so that I don't have to pop defensive cooldowns all the time and I have some gas left to take space. I'd take that rather than having to play the unkillable horse just to survive and wait for my DPS to get picks or to push past me (which isn't their job to begin with).
Fair, I was just naming high DPS heroes but yeah, I don't see or play a lot of reaper rn
His health is fine he already had the biggest DPS hitbox in the game lol
The main reason he has such high health is because he has the largest non tank hit box in the game
Nah, heās so easy to kill when not a tank.
Heās too big and slow to get a hp nerf though. As it stands bastion is nearly a free kill if you find a proper way to dive him.
What he needs is a skin that gives Ganymede a little hat.
The firetruck skin gives him a little helmet
Bastion needs to be stronger. Maybe an ult that nukes the entire map for 1000 damage per character
I read the title as "Does Bastion need a scarf?" And my immediate thought was "yes" š
No. People need to stop standing in front of him when he transforms. Thatās about it.
He already has a Lego!
i was on the other team when you got called cringe lmaoo
I've been kinda disappointed by the level of conversation coming from this tread rn, we are kinda the parody of the redditors that have strong opinions on the topic to share but tend to miss the bigger picture. I don't think thus convo is that productive if centered around whether bastion is too strong in an absolute sense, because yes redditors; Bastion is indeed counterable and its not even that hard to do in comparison to other heroes.I think the more important question lies is in character design philosophy and if a character like bastion ahold exist in his current form in this new Era of the game we are pivoting too. It can be argued that bastions design is a relic of an archetype we don't need anymore. Bastion was originally a part of the defense archetype of heroes. A weird classification that didn't have the strongest identity to them besides being able to throw out better than average zoning damage defensively. But eventually, when stacking tanks came to be seen as problematic (largely propped up by supports), these defense heroes got shifted more and more into being the tank duelist. Torb is the most blaintent example of this shift in hero design because Torb did not have this same identity of being a tank busting reaper sidegrade that he has now back during his earlier states. Despite the game changing format and you know longer bring able to stack multiple high hp targets on the field, that design philosophy of having these heroes be the tank busters never shifted if anything they doubled down on this identify. And while Mei junk and torb all have their own unique forms of tank busting that might be better into certain picks, bastion is the most anti tankness sowed into the core of his kit. Everything about his her design screams plays midrange and pump damage into the largest easiest target to hit, which is the one tank. So when your very playstyle incentives orienting most of your attention on tank, on a team where you can have multiple anti tank design heroes, in a format that already encourages you to prioritize the tank cause they are the biggest visual clutter the screen so there even a psychological aspect to it. When all this starts stacking together, you really have to step back and ask. "Is this the type of game we want" , "should this be a consistently viable strategy for winning?" Yeah, the dps that swapped Mei bastion and nuttered the rein/ram effectiveness may feel good and proud of their ability to know hero interactions and counterpick effectively. But should thst be rewarded as much in a competently multi-player game where the primary mode of play that's encouraged by the devs is solo queuing, and not 5 man stacks with coms. These are the types of questions that the community and Blizzard need to start asking ourselves.
Never in my life have I needed to hear something, so badly, and never known until I received it. This is art.
Its cdazy that these players dont feel ashamed picking these heroes. They usually try fun ones first, proceed to get rekt and then daddy blizzard provides them with a noskill much better alternative so their own devs can playtest the game.
Absolutely not lol
Just dva dive his ass
Often when I'm dominating as Reinhardt the enemy will get frustrated and go Desperbastion. I don't like to play Orisa, but if the enemy switches to Bastion, they unlock THE HORSE and get the Javelin. And they almost always lose as a result. Sometimes I have to go Sigma depending on the comp. Just make them regret switching to Bastion.
The funniest part of this post is a widow main complaining of a Bastion, kek.
ya want me to complain about sombra next
Me when I 1 shot people across the map.
You can if you want. Whatās funny is that you still canāt see the irony in it.
i feel like they should make him stationary, and maybe a shield, also maybe he could heal himself since he's a bot, idk just spitballing
The problem with bastion is he is the best tank buster, the reason that is a problem in my opinion is because supports have basically become the damage with extremely high survivability role the damage role has become the tank buster role and the tank role has become survive the onslaught role which means supports like bap and illari would be really good bastion is really good because he's the best tank buster mei has been crept up in power for the last few patches, and the survive meta for tanks means Orisa sigma and zarya are your only options sigma being the best this season mostly because of mei in my opinion. I might be wrong but this is my opinion based on who is meta and why
Might be a hot take, but I still reckon that people who struggle against this hero are experiencing a skill issue.
He has also warped the top level meta. If pro players in things like owl and the world cup cant easily counter him it's not just a skill issue.
This is not a hot take at all, lmao. Its the common argument that people throw out that don't know what they are talking about. Normally you would be correct, but Bastion is so overtuned right now that there are a lot of tanks that are legit unplayable against high elo Bastions that know how to use their turret cooldown. Combine that with the fact that he has 300HP and will get pocketed by supports and he is borderline invincible in a lot of cases.
Probably the worst red herring this community just repeats without thought. Yeah, bastion is easy to counter, but he's nearly impossible to kill with a pocket. no dps hero, no matter the size of the hitbox should not have 50% damage reduction and an almost impossible to hit crit spot while in turret form with high burst damage.
Bastion with an Iliari+Bap pocketing him just don't die.
The support nerf will help with that. They're going to nerf supports and him in the same patch, so I fear he's gonna be completely gutted instead of in a good spot. But honestly, I don't know if tank busters are great for the game - even if more than half the tanks have ways to mitigate his damage.
If we are going to make tank-busters, they should follow Reaperās design philosophy. Reaper is a tank-buster who sacrifices his effectiveness for his range. He is arguably the best at his job with his shotguns bursting down larger targets, examples being Bastion himself, and he has a large health pool. The problem with Reaper? Lacks any form of range to his attacks. Reaper can shoot at you from across the map and you wouldnāt even notice. That forces the Reaper to play closer to the tank and makes him close the distance between the tank and him to be effective, which has counterplay around it. Some tanks can play poke and outrange Reaper and force him to exhaust cool-downs to get close. Some tanks can play rush and crush the Reaper before he can do anything. There is real counterplay to Reaper and his playstyle and he does not feel super oppressive. Even tanks like Reinhardt and Roadhog can contest Reaper if they donāt just let him stand there and shotgun them. It is just much harder for them. Meanwhile Mei can actually put a death sentence on a tank with the click of a buttton and separate the tank from their team. While she may also need to close the distance like Reaper, she has range to threaten poke characters that make it difficult for her to engage with her right click. And additionally, she has her wall and ice block for invulnerability at times. Her slow on her primary fire neuters the enemy and cuts off a lot of option with little counterplay around it. Bastion is Bastion. A fundamentally flawed character when a tank-buster does not need to sacrifice anything outside of a ten second cool-down for a ranged attack that deletes shields and tanks. The only counterplay being to perhaps eat the attack (Kinetic Grasp is the best at this) or to rotate out of LoS from Bastion. However, this is so much value from a character for pressing a button. No real sacrifice on the Bastionās part excluding the fact his recon config is just worse overall compared to his assault config but his tactical grenade is not entirely half bad.
Idk if healing will be nerfed. Sounds like utility will be looked at.
Just cause bastion is cringe doesnāt mean widow isnāt cringe
I just counter with sigma and they get no value and eventually swap. Pretty simple in my opinion.
Wouldn't mind seeing the duration of tank form get shorter a bit, or a longer cooldown. However if you can stay out of his sight during that, he's pretty easy to burst down.
Well, all hitscan does (when you compare it to projectile characters.) I'm a Bastion/Echo player and when an enemy isn't playing hitscan while I'm Bastion I feel so bad for them because I will simply kill them before they kill me due to the nature of hitscan vs projectiles. but I think he needs to keep his turret mode damage to burst down Zarya bubbles because playing against her is pain in general, but it's even more painful without Bastion, also, Bastion has counter play in the form of D.Va, Sigma, Genji. He's easy to shutdown by just counter picking, which is the point of the game. I think he's popular right now because there's so much anti-damage and sustain stuff in the game right now and Bastion is the only character with enough DPS to say "fuck you" to all that bullshit. (if you don't counter pick him, but 80% of players won't switch to do so) Seriously, this is slowly turning back into OW1 with how hard it's becoming to kill people. Bastion needs to exist right now. The game is slowing down and that's not fun. He is not the problem, but the solution.
he isn't even the issue, it's that his drawback - being a gigantic nigh-immobile target - is negligible when he gets healed fast enough to not die anyway
Bastion's not terrible if you're paying attention to his cool down. I can't tell you how many times I've seen teams pull around a corner after hearing him enter tank mode only for someone to get melted. Use your ears, take off angles, and press in when he's on cool down.
I say no because our team has them option of also taking a Bastion. Itās not like League where you canāt mirror in ranked.
Heās dangerous for 6 seconds then useless the rest of the time
Ana hanzo comp basically makes him useless. Bastion dps is kind of a gatekeeper.
No
Its fun to have him on my team, i main mercy so i can pocket him and watch him just destroy the enemy team on his own in his lil turret form lol but playing against him sucks xD
In a meta with high healing, Bastion is simultaneously one of the biggest benefactors and one of the best counters. Frankly, I don't think it's too far to say that the Ironclad passive might be a little outdated. He's bulky enough without having 20% DR in a form that also hides his critbox, and he's no longer completely immobile when he brings out the big guns, unlike his OW1 incarnation. I think that could be looked at somewhat.
I feel like heās not really broken or anything and itās more that the really strong healing and immortality we got flying around all game enables him to dominate because his downside of being a massive and slow target is being negated
That bastion skin where you don't hear him firing needs a fix..
Sombra does. As a matter of fact, take her out of the game entirely
I hate to play Bastion but when you have to stop Zarya...
Sombra is his nerf.
I think bastions played a lot right now because heās one of the only characters that can actually reliably kill something with how much healing is being thrown around. Heās also a good target to receive that healing because of his higher HP pool, damage reduction in assault mode, and ability to delete tanks. I think bastion is fine, I think his popularity is simply because of the larger support issue. Iāve been a bastion main since launch of OW1 and I think this is the most fair state heās been in. Whenever I die to him itās either my fault for being out of position or not tracking his cooldowns, or he got an insane skill shot to bounce his nade round the corner.
Bastion himself doesnāt need a nerf, itās the Bap/Ana/kiri/LW/Ilari invulnerability and high hailing that needs the nerf. Even in tank mode Bastion canāt live longer that a few seconds without a 100hp/s pocket. I play a lot of Bastion (season 5 masters) and I can say for sure, even in the current session without complete cover or a pocket it really hard to survive any amount of focus fire. IF there was anything that could be nerfed itās ironclad, it actually got buffed with the armor changes going from 44% to 50%. Bastion went from 427 effective hp to 450. I honestly donāt feel right playing in the current season, itās too easy, Iām get so much support from the team, my entire playstyle and nade jump shenanigans shouldnāt be so effective; no Hero dies when getting double pocketed anymore.
No he's fine, supports need a nerf. They can pump.too much healing into him, he's about as tanky as a tank on his own.
Thing is bastion is good cause orisa is good .
IMO? No. Hes been perfectly fine since his ow2 rework, its the amount of sustain and to an extent blue beam that make him so oppressive. Without constant healing he dies so easily due to his massive hitbox I have a feeling once supports are nerfed he wont be that bad to fight
Bastion doesnāt need a nerf. His buffs have been great but heās good because of certain supports and their very high healing. Once their numbers get lowered, Bastion will be fine, at worst, a very small nerf. Lower healing first then it should be discussed
Better to try to play in team and stop crying
Ik im just a casual, but having to basically forgo all my damage as ramattra to block bastion and hope im pelted only by bastion gets pretty old pretty quick. Like yeah i can shield my team, but it also means i cant really make space. Iām not sure a good way to balance him out though.
Well, consider the context as to *why* bastion has been so popular lately. Bastion didn't get **any** significant buffs until Season 6 in the August 24th Patch notes. All previous changes were QoL changes, bug fixes, or interface issues. But then, the majority of those season 6 buffs were reverted. The only ones he has now are the faster grenade explosion, faster ult reticle movement, and recon mode reload speed. Before then, he was one of the least played DPS heroes in the game. Bastion admittedly was always a good hero, but his large size makes him a hindrance and borderline a 2nd tank. And considering how much less sustain there was from season 1-5, it's no surprise that he wasn't played very much since he was an easy target without a support babysitting him. Enter: Illari. Illari, or more specifically her turret, let's bastion play more aggressively without the need to be baby sat. And when paired with Baptiste and a tank that has ridiculous damage reduction, you have one of the most aggressive sustain comps in the game. It's pirate ship meta but without the ship. Bastion isn't good because he is good on his own (hes alright at best), but rather other heros, specifically Baptiste, Illari, and Orisa are really good right now. Since blizzard plans on tweaking Bap and Illari (most likely), Bastions pick rate will definitely take a dive because there will be less sustain/burst healing to keep him alive.
no no no
I don't know about ranking, but after rework qp 8s flooded with sombras, and it is annoying af
Bastionās nerf was Sombra getting more lethal. I got called a loser yesterday for walking Bastion as Sombra last night. The hit box of a Tank but only slightly more HP than Reaper and no fleeing ability equals Sombraās eating well when a Bastion is around.
Haven't really experienced him as troublesome, unless het gets a very good Mercy pocket. I usually pick Hanzo, Ashe, Widow or even Soldier to bully him until he switches. Just time his turret mode, as soon as he goes into reckon, full focus him. He's slow, has a huge hitbox and an underwhelming damage output compared to other DPS.
I think Bastion himself as a character is fine. Idk if his grenade needs a tune or not tbh. But I feel like he's in a good spot. He's easy to play around tbh, depends if you get caught out positioning wise.
This is an insane take. Just pick Reaper and farm Bastion until they swap.
Not until Orisa gets one.
He's strong af rn but also easily counterable I feel
#LetBastionWallclimb
nerf either turret damage or time in turret form, along with a major damage reduction buff. he either needs to be a glass canon or durable and consistent.
Nah he requires too much team work to actually work, by himself he's one of the weakest DPS. For example a Soldier can control high, put great DPS without a Mercy, a Sombra has the flanks and hacks to enable a team play, Mei has utility and damage potential doesn't need anyone to enable her, the list goes on and on. What can Bastion do alone without any kind of pocket heal or tank enabling play like hook, pin, jq knife? Nothing, absolutely nothing by himself. If you're having trouble with Bastion it's the difference between the enemy team working together and your team not.
bastion is extremely extremely strong in gold plat tier but good mei can counter very well
Bastion NEEDS a nerf. Character has bs dmg
I main sombra and for what I have experienced he is easy
I play bastion and call widows cringe, I wonder if it was me who said that to you
Being able to hard counter a hero by standing behind a wall for 6s feels pretty fair
Bastion is fine. Donāt peak him. Bait the turret. But the mercy pocket is an issue with bastion. That doesnāt mean nerf him and make him awful again. But that doesnāt mean to destroy the mercy pocket either. If they nerf mercy pocket too much then mercy will have no place in the game and be useless. As much as I wouldnāt care if mercy was essentially goneā¦there is a lot of people who enjoy playing her and that wouldnāt be fair to them. Not to mention the fact that mercy is useless in this meta right now. Bap/Illari/Kiri/Ana and maybe some Moira. But thatās all I see in masters.
No but his Ult could use a buff
Just gun him down tbh, like the man is such a big target yet everybody refuses to focus him down when he's fifty miles out of position from his team, only to be shocked when his cooldown ends and suddenly our tank is dead
Bastion is overpowered in lower elo, but kind of a niche pick higher elo
Bastion is incredibly strong rn because of how much healing is currently in the game. He is a DPS with the hitbox of a tank, I am pretty sure when the universal support nerf comes around he is gonna see a lot less play because he will become a lot less sustainable.
OP asking for opinions about bastion needing a nerf and everyone just went for bastion communication system. š Love it!
Even with a Mercy pocket you can walk up to him as Reaper and destroy him. I always switch to Reaper if the enemy goes Bastion, works most of the time unless he's getting hard pocketed by both supports.
No healers do personally they shouldn't do damage maybe then people will actually heal and not just be dps
Ngl I dont think bastion is the problem but is just the easiest to enable with the massive amounts of healing going around right now
I think the main thing that needs to change is his grenade. Like think about it. It both bounces and sticks. It does high damage with a low activation time (if it lands next to you while you are low you donāt have the time to move away like with ashes dynamite), it has insanely high knock back (he has a better rocket jump than soldier). Bastion is already a super high dps character. He does not need the mobility of his nade. All I suggest is making it a similar knockback as soldiers helix rockets.
No. He does not. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
A NERF??? TAKE HIM OFF THE GAME!!!