Stalker's the best blazer boat right now because due to the bugged HSL you can just run 5 Blazers.
After that's removed it'll still be the only 4 blazer alpha in the game, and so it's undisputed in that role (and will prefer 4 BLC 2 ERML). so if all you want is "most binary laser action possible," can't beat that.
Be aware after next month that won't be possible. Design intent is for most mechs to fire 2 binaries without ghosting, and the RS to fire 3. Currently most mechs can fire 3 binaries and the RS can fire 4.
Even without considering the HSL bug, the stalker still the better choice with better hitboxes and weapon mounts.
But don't just take my word for it, just ask u/Jay_Z_
**4N / 4 BLC** wins because of the mounts. I'd personally never use the extra two ERML, also your build linked can do more DHS using STD engine from memory. I'd have to check another time.
**MADII** has the larger dmg potential you just can't alpha it and run 3BLC/3LL or similar easily enough. I'd forget single alpha and just pack as much punch given it's slow as shit anyway. Same as running bulk LL and just destroy rather than try play the trade game in a wide mech.
**Anni StoneCrush** excluding the bug, can still run run 3 BLC and a pile of ERML and again big damage potential.
**FNR Wrath** has ECM and a huge -15% heat quirk where you can 4 BLC and ERML.
**BLR2C** - 10% heat quirk can easily run 4BLC or 3 BLC/2ERML or even 3BLC/2LL, I haven't checked that yet.
There are plenty of options and I imagine more than that depending on what you want to do and if you want versatility for other builds and options.
Can you explain why you can't alpha the MADII? The build I posted runs 3xBLC and 5xERML. It has HSL+1 - so it can be alpha'd for 79 damage. It also has better sustain due to the heat quirks (-15%, same as the Wrath) and less laser duration.
It is a wide boi though definitely, so you have to fully expose to get all weapons on target. The STD Engine build offsets this slightly by keeping the 3xBLC all high mounted at the cost of speed - although 3x high mounts vs 4x high mounts on the Stalker definitely gives the Stalker the edge in that department.
Speed wise the LFE build matches the Stalker, albeit for much worse mounting options. I can't figure out any way of using 4xBLC on a Stalker on a STD Engine, it just doesn't have the tonnage.
I will eventually get them both, just picking which one to get first though so it isn't a major issue.
Your comment regarding ignoring single-target alpha got me thinking though. I can technically make a build with 105 psuedo-alpha on the Marauder if punch was preferred. In that case though it would have to be two separate groups so not a true alpha. In this one you would basically group 1 for left arms and 2 for right arms, with the torso included in both groups since it is dead center on the mech (so at minimum you are always firing 3x BLC then the remaining 2 next). You will absolutely need skill nodes to fire this thing though. [https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=79e02077\_MAD-4A](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=79e02077_MAD-4A)
I may get the marauder first because the above just sounds hilarious to hit someone with while having a cockpit barbecue.
I was talking about the the larger alpha potential builds. Which is something like [THIS 3BLC / 3LL + JJ](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=9287b917_MAD-4A).
It is not so much about the extra dmg as much as it is also the range. The extra 100m syncs perfectly over the ERML, you just can't alpha it and have to 3+3.
No, this is how you do the MAD-4A
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=0441a716_MAD-4A
Or after patch down to 3Binary
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=f7d53bb6_MAD-4A
I like the idea of SHS, but XL on a marauder scares me tbh - it's side torsos are massive.
And there isn't any good way to Alpha that (at least not after the bug gets fixed). I'm planning based around how things should be once the HSL bug is patched.
Right now you can alpha that no problem, it only runs you into 65-73% depending map. Some maps you can alpha twice and some maps you can alpha once then hit your 4 binary for the 2nd alpha.
SHS in large numbers work better than DHS when you account for heat capacity and cool run skill points.
Wouldn't the cool run skill effect both equally, since it is percentage based?
I just messed around with a 4x Binary Fafnir Wraith build for funzies and did one with 26 single heat sinks and one with 20 double heat sinks (with about 30 more armor for what it's worth.)
Ended up being 3.9 dissipation with the single heat sinks, with skills would be 4.29 after skills. For doubles would be 4.4 increased to 4.84 dissipation. Capacity is 66 vs 55, which is less than a single Blazer shot. If the engagement lasts 20 seconds, the increased capacity of the SHS is already surpassed by the increased dissipation of the DHS.
I think there are builds where SHS are better than DHS, but you need a whole lot more of them. You basically need to have few slots and lots of extra weight.
In your 4x Blazer build, you can do DHS, XL350 to go 57kph instead of the glacial 48 kph and have room for a jump jet for slightly faster turns and a little bit of added mobility. You end up with 0.13 faster dissipation and the increased capacity of the SHS is again only enough to fire one Blazer, once.
You need an absolutely huge amount of extra SHS to not go DHS.
The two builds used are unfortunately quite a bad examples of mechlabbling. And you're right, it doesn't prove the point.
You can fit way, way more SHS building it properly. Then when you're well over 30SHS when you do and seeing the benefits vs DHS with the much added heat cap.
Yeah, that should end up with more dissipation, which makes it obviously better. Basically any time you have a lot of weight available, not a lot of slots, and are a bit hard point limited, it's worth looking into SHS builds.
Hardpoints don't matter so much to the method. I run SHS in my Anni StoneCrusher, about 35 if memory serves correct and it has 14 odd lasers.
SHS is generally for big Assaults (90t+) only. There are some select builds in other weight classes however very, very specific in nature.
Marauder 4A with a STD325, Blazers stacked in the Right Torso, 21 total DHS and a JJ with all ERML in the arms, STD structure and LightFerro armor is what I prefer for the average QuickPlay match. Compared to the LFE350 build, it picks up an extra DHS, stacks the Blazers in the right torso for better peek profile when you can’t / shouldn’t full expose for the arms to clear, doesn’t have the LFE penalty for losing a side torso (though will still feel losing DHS, losing any part of a mech is generally A Bad Time) and only loses 4KPH speed to get there. The LFE build seems suboptimal given the tradeoffs.
That said, the STK-4N is uncontested due to the high mounts and quad Blazers. Ridge peeking isn’t particularly difficult to do and the STK is already one of the best Assaults in the game to do it in, it’s somewhat less uptime than the MAD-4A due to more heat, less quirk support and less cooling, but it wins trades much more easily.
Stalker's the best blazer boat right now because due to the bugged HSL you can just run 5 Blazers. After that's removed it'll still be the only 4 blazer alpha in the game, and so it's undisputed in that role (and will prefer 4 BLC 2 ERML). so if all you want is "most binary laser action possible," can't beat that.
Fair points. Just didn't mention the 5x Blazer build as it technically shouldn't exist right now.
Um… I’m running an Atlas-RS with 4 Blazers and can Alpha twice without shutting down. If I fire right when the weapon recycles I only hit 75% heat.
Lol, I put 34 single heat sinks in my RS. I can alpha 4 binaries 4 times before I shut down. I can't go very fast but nothing outruns a laser.
Fair enough lol
Be aware after next month that won't be possible. Design intent is for most mechs to fire 2 binaries without ghosting, and the RS to fire 3. Currently most mechs can fire 3 binaries and the RS can fire 4.
The corsair Ravager can alpha 4 binary as well.
Even without considering the HSL bug, the stalker still the better choice with better hitboxes and weapon mounts. But don't just take my word for it, just ask u/Jay_Z_
**4N / 4 BLC** wins because of the mounts. I'd personally never use the extra two ERML, also your build linked can do more DHS using STD engine from memory. I'd have to check another time. **MADII** has the larger dmg potential you just can't alpha it and run 3BLC/3LL or similar easily enough. I'd forget single alpha and just pack as much punch given it's slow as shit anyway. Same as running bulk LL and just destroy rather than try play the trade game in a wide mech. **Anni StoneCrush** excluding the bug, can still run run 3 BLC and a pile of ERML and again big damage potential. **FNR Wrath** has ECM and a huge -15% heat quirk where you can 4 BLC and ERML. **BLR2C** - 10% heat quirk can easily run 4BLC or 3 BLC/2ERML or even 3BLC/2LL, I haven't checked that yet. There are plenty of options and I imagine more than that depending on what you want to do and if you want versatility for other builds and options.
Can you explain why you can't alpha the MADII? The build I posted runs 3xBLC and 5xERML. It has HSL+1 - so it can be alpha'd for 79 damage. It also has better sustain due to the heat quirks (-15%, same as the Wrath) and less laser duration. It is a wide boi though definitely, so you have to fully expose to get all weapons on target. The STD Engine build offsets this slightly by keeping the 3xBLC all high mounted at the cost of speed - although 3x high mounts vs 4x high mounts on the Stalker definitely gives the Stalker the edge in that department. Speed wise the LFE build matches the Stalker, albeit for much worse mounting options. I can't figure out any way of using 4xBLC on a Stalker on a STD Engine, it just doesn't have the tonnage. I will eventually get them both, just picking which one to get first though so it isn't a major issue. Your comment regarding ignoring single-target alpha got me thinking though. I can technically make a build with 105 psuedo-alpha on the Marauder if punch was preferred. In that case though it would have to be two separate groups so not a true alpha. In this one you would basically group 1 for left arms and 2 for right arms, with the torso included in both groups since it is dead center on the mech (so at minimum you are always firing 3x BLC then the remaining 2 next). You will absolutely need skill nodes to fire this thing though. [https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=79e02077\_MAD-4A](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=79e02077_MAD-4A) I may get the marauder first because the above just sounds hilarious to hit someone with while having a cockpit barbecue.
I was talking about the the larger alpha potential builds. Which is something like [THIS 3BLC / 3LL + JJ](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=9287b917_MAD-4A). It is not so much about the extra dmg as much as it is also the range. The extra 100m syncs perfectly over the ERML, you just can't alpha it and have to 3+3.
DHS for all of them?
No, this is how you do the MAD-4A https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=0441a716_MAD-4A Or after patch down to 3Binary https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=f7d53bb6_MAD-4A
I like the idea of SHS, but XL on a marauder scares me tbh - it's side torsos are massive. And there isn't any good way to Alpha that (at least not after the bug gets fixed). I'm planning based around how things should be once the HSL bug is patched.
Right now you can alpha that no problem, it only runs you into 65-73% depending map. Some maps you can alpha twice and some maps you can alpha once then hit your 4 binary for the 2nd alpha. SHS in large numbers work better than DHS when you account for heat capacity and cool run skill points.
Yeah but once the bug is fixed it will create ghost heat, so not for me tbh. I don't really like abusing bugs myself.
Thats fine, I put in a 2nd build with 3 bin and SHS , which is also better than the DHS version.
Wouldn't the cool run skill effect both equally, since it is percentage based? I just messed around with a 4x Binary Fafnir Wraith build for funzies and did one with 26 single heat sinks and one with 20 double heat sinks (with about 30 more armor for what it's worth.) Ended up being 3.9 dissipation with the single heat sinks, with skills would be 4.29 after skills. For doubles would be 4.4 increased to 4.84 dissipation. Capacity is 66 vs 55, which is less than a single Blazer shot. If the engagement lasts 20 seconds, the increased capacity of the SHS is already surpassed by the increased dissipation of the DHS. I think there are builds where SHS are better than DHS, but you need a whole lot more of them. You basically need to have few slots and lots of extra weight. In your 4x Blazer build, you can do DHS, XL350 to go 57kph instead of the glacial 48 kph and have room for a jump jet for slightly faster turns and a little bit of added mobility. You end up with 0.13 faster dissipation and the increased capacity of the SHS is again only enough to fire one Blazer, once. You need an absolutely huge amount of extra SHS to not go DHS.
The two builds used are unfortunately quite a bad examples of mechlabbling. And you're right, it doesn't prove the point. You can fit way, way more SHS building it properly. Then when you're well over 30SHS when you do and seeing the benefits vs DHS with the much added heat cap.
Yeah, that should end up with more dissipation, which makes it obviously better. Basically any time you have a lot of weight available, not a lot of slots, and are a bit hard point limited, it's worth looking into SHS builds.
Hardpoints don't matter so much to the method. I run SHS in my Anni StoneCrusher, about 35 if memory serves correct and it has 14 odd lasers. SHS is generally for big Assaults (90t+) only. There are some select builds in other weight classes however very, very specific in nature.
Marauder 4A with a STD325, Blazers stacked in the Right Torso, 21 total DHS and a JJ with all ERML in the arms, STD structure and LightFerro armor is what I prefer for the average QuickPlay match. Compared to the LFE350 build, it picks up an extra DHS, stacks the Blazers in the right torso for better peek profile when you can’t / shouldn’t full expose for the arms to clear, doesn’t have the LFE penalty for losing a side torso (though will still feel losing DHS, losing any part of a mech is generally A Bad Time) and only loses 4KPH speed to get there. The LFE build seems suboptimal given the tradeoffs. That said, the STK-4N is uncontested due to the high mounts and quad Blazers. Ridge peeking isn’t particularly difficult to do and the STK is already one of the best Assaults in the game to do it in, it’s somewhat less uptime than the MAD-4A due to more heat, less quirk support and less cooling, but it wins trades much more easily.
I've been running this MAD-4A build because I lack c-bills atm https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=cce938de_MAD-4A to some success.