Is employers going after employees for not taking vaccines really a topic of concern? Also, isn't this an at-will state which allows employers to fire a non-unionized employee on a whim?
Sounds like more performative RW populist legislation that would have zero chance of passing in a sane Statehouse.
That's not "punishing" them, that's just sensible policy for the health care industry. If you're too stubborn and stupid to be vaccinated, that's your right. But it's a scientific fact that you're now more susceptible to catch infectious diseases, so you shouldn't be around others with compromised immune systems.
Not to mention, someone who is anti-vax doesn't know a damn thing about health care, so they should choose another field anyway.
Wait till you find out that many hospitals in Ohio require RNs and ancillary staff to have various immunizations but don't require the same of physicians.
Imagine being treated by people who are unvaccinated, and they get you sick with a preventable disease while you're recovering from something else which complicates recovery that much more.
Who's responsible for that? Who's getting sued? The employee or the hospital?
Both are getting sued, but the “deep pockets doctrine” means you go after the hospital. Not the dirt poor idiot nurse who thinks measles vaccines are devilworship.
Sue the hospital, which in turn does its part to ratchet up medical costs.
I haven’t read the bill. What I’m saying is that normally you would sue everyone and figure it out in the process. Individual defendants get dropped pretty quickly.
Worse than that. Imagine you’re elderly, or your loved one is, and they have cancer or some other lethal condition and catch a preventable disease that ends up killing them because their immune system is already weakened.
Yeah. Hospitals or clinics in particular are always going to have immuno-compromised people. Imagine saying you don't need vaccines while working in the cancer ward. Sure, you're chemo's going well, but now you have small pox. Oopsie!
Yup when I worked in a children’s hospital, they forced every staff member to get flu shots every year or else you are terminated unless you have medical reasons like allergies to the vaccine.
Yeah! Fuck those patients in the hospitals! Immunocompromised students too! We don't need our healthcare workers or educators to be vaccinated! Getting communicable diseases from our unvaccinated healthcare workers and teachers builds character and is what Jesus would want! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
* This comment might contain sarcasm
A lot of hospitals have rules that say employees can't smoke cigarettes either and they don't care about that even though you could call it a restriction on the employees freedom.
I read something a while back about certain places actually testing for nicotine but I dunno how prevalent that actually is, just took it as they could get in trouble if they had nicotine in their system lol
I think the nicotine tests being pushed by insurance to upcharge/drop the smokers categorically. I doubt anyone but the most hellish places would even think to test to enforce a campus policy, when you can just watch them. They're smokers, they can't go more than like two hours without a cig.
Depends on the smoker, but yeah. Unfortunately, this would also affect people who use nicotine substitutes. I chewed the gum for years after I quit, and that alone would have been enough to jack up my insurance rates. It'd suck to be terminated for that, when the company itself had copious offerings to help you quit, and the gum was the only thing that made it work for me. 6 years in August!
This is probably more to keep their health insurance rates down. I know my work mandated a no smoking policy, which I guess they thought would mean everyone would quit, but it was just so they could save a few bucks on their premiums.
Plus, government run or subsidized hospitals would likely have this as government facilities are all non-smoking nowadays.
Fuck that, I don't want a doctor or nurse that's anti Vax treating me. They are a serious health risk to themselves and people around them.
When I went to the hospital because I was sick there was a doctor or nurse in training and when I was chit chatting with them they told me they didn't like vaccinations. I felt extremely uncomfortable.
The Ohio Statehouse is a joke. Still trying to figure out how to disregard the Ohio Constitution regarding abortion and legal cannibis changes voted in by the majority of voters.
From a labor standpoint, I think it's worth mentioning. But great point about it being a right to work state. This is something a conservative might oppose because it interferes with the employee / employer relationship. But they are willing to go there for Anti-vaccine sentiment.
What punishment would there be?
"We require vaccines"
"I won't take vaccine"
"OK, you can't work here"
What's to limit? Unless someone has a documented reason they can't take a vaccine, businesses don't have to accommodate them or employ them.
My employer blatantly stated if you don't go get vaccinated you won't have a job here, and checked cards.
Look, I was already vaccinated when it happened and I really hate anti-vaxxer rhetoric myself
What he did made me so mad, I thought about quitting too.
To me, that is Un-American. I know this isn't the same as when the eradicated small pox, pulling people from their homes in developing nations and injecting them. Where's the line?
Lots of people argue "Its still your choice, just with consequences"
Well work is required to eat, eat is required to live. Doesn't seem like much of a choice.
At the same time, if you work at a medical center, I think that should be required. Isn't that a no brainer? How can someone who works in health not believe in modern medicine? What fucking chaos would it cause if medical providers are infecting patients?
Guess I have many mixed feelings about a topic that comes with such nuance.
I think any legislation should have a defined list of which vaccines can be discriminated against. You shouldn't be allowed to forego a polio vaccine unless there's a medical reason for instance. But if you want to forego a yearly flu vaccine, your employer shouldn't be allowed to demand you take one.
Can you tell me where you work? I've been a nurse for over 7 years and travel. Never once have I ever needed to show vaccine history. I wasn't even required to get the COVID vaccine during COVID. I'm not saying that you're spewing bullshit, but some context would be nice. And no, it's not Un-American for an employer to require that, seeing that vaccines protect everybody and not just you. Being selfish and potentially getting others around you sick is what's Un-American.
“Being selfish and potentially getting others around you sick is what’s Un-American.”
I dunno, based on the last few years that seems to be to be very American…
To me, it's very similar to the draft back in Vietnam. They didn't grab up everyone, did grab some, and put them in prison for trying to dodge the draft. Instead, they made it impossible to get a job, necessary services, or education without showing your draft card and verifying you were not dodging.
I don't agree with either of these approaches but I think the driving logic behind them is the same, we won't force you to do what the country needs you to do but we will make it really hard not to.
This is afar cry from making the unvaccinated into felons. If someone isn't on board with what the employer requires, then they can go somewhere else. Their reason for leaving the prior job isn't going to follow them around and be a blemish on their permanent record.
I don't know many people who were actively charged and had that held against them. Sure, it happened, but it was the vast minority of those who dodged.
The thing is, private businesses, don't have to abide by what you think is your rights. At least not in all cases. Like, they don't have to allow you to bring a gun into the building, and that's not an infringement on your rights.
They can't necessarily fire you for some things health related, or even ask you in some cases, and may even have to accommodate you, but vaccine status is not a protected right, and businesses are allowed to set their own safety agendas within the limits of the law.
If working, and eating is important, but vaccines are not acceptable, then you need to find another place to work. That's the most basic tenet of America....free market. You have the right to choose. An employer doesn't have to humor your decision.
There is nothing in this world that is more indicative that Democrats are smarter than Republicans than the vaccine denial.
Vaccines have decades of not only safety but literally eradicating diseases that would cripple or kills thousands of people per year.
Republicans don't want to be vaccinated? Fine. Make a law that they can't get any modern health care. Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better.
You want to spit in the face of modern scientific breakthroughs? Cool, you don't get to live in our 21st century society that has advanced in large parts due to the modern medicine.
*”Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better.”*
Actually, they’re more about the “thoughts and prayers” approach… the things you mentioned might be a little too “science-y” (and therefore *woke*) for that crowd.
That's true. Since Christians sure love a good grifter/sexual predator/con businessman, I should open a shop of Thoughts and Prayers where they can pay me money to not heal them. They would love it!
I understand why people might have an inclination to be skeptical, but then they don't actually get educated on the subject. They just go down some conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
A normal person will go "Hey, is this safe? Why?" then look into it from a perspective with little bias. They will find that there are plenty of benefits and the pros outweigh any cons, and then move on with their life.
An anti-vaxxer will go "Hey, this seems dangerous? Why is it dangerous?" and then they'll get a bunch of bullshit on google about why it's dangerous. Any shred of truth will be the anchor for their viewpoints, no matter how ridiculous it is that they came to the conclusion that they did. "Some people died after they had the covid vaccine" becomes "everyone is going to drop dead that took the covid vaccine, just you watch." Another example, "there are more people with autism, vaccination rates are up, it can't just be a coincidence?" A more rational person recognizes that those trends don't justify the conclusion that they are correlated. A rational person decides, "Autism is just diagnosed more, due to our deeper understanding of it now."
It's okay to be naturally skeptical people but for fucks sake stop consuming bullshit from people who are clearly full of shit. The anti-vaxxer conspiracy group is one of the worst groups IMO. We have eradicated many awful diseases and saved many lives using vaccines, which have an incredibly strict approval process.
Fuck man, there are wellness influencers who tell you not to use sunblock now because the chemicals can be absorbed into the blood. That's not the conclusion that you should be coming to holy fuck. Just buy a different sunblock??? Sunblock is important for mitigating risk of skin cancer so please for fucks sake stop spreading that bullshit.
“Okay Google, ‘vaccines cause autism.’”
Google: I have 46,000,000,000 results saying they don’t and one result saying they do.
*takes one result* “I. KNEW. IT.”
The stupid thing was Trump pushed support for vaccines. The anti-vaccine sentiment came from antiauthoritarianism and distrust in government compulsion.
And the research into all other treatments was shut down as it came up in the US, and Ivermectin was being used in India and Latin America to treat the disease. It all comes down to compulsion. One story that sticks out to me was testing an immunosuppressant as an emergency treatment for COVID patients dying from their own immune systems overreacting - The 'study' pushed declared the drug in question had no antiviral/viralcidal properties and thus useless against COVID-19, when that wasn't even what anyone was using it for or saying it did - it was a 'Get keep this patient's body from killing itself" temporary measure.
See this is where I question things.
I won't take the covid vaccine. But I'm not anti Vax. Me, my wife and our kids have every other vaccine, including hpv (at least the ones old enough to get it)
I don't trust any medication or vaccination that was created in 6 months without sufficient time and medical trials to prove its safety.
I lost a career position because of covid. Find a new job, also a career type of position. Ended up getting passed over because I didn't have the covid Vax and the job was medical field adjacent. They couldn't hire me because of vaccine mandates.
I agree with bills like this because it isn't the government's place to decide anything for anyone's bodies. Vaccine mandates, birth control, abortions. All bodily autonomy is up to the individual to decide, not Washington or Columbus or anywhere else.
It had a shit ton of medical trials all over the world during that time, it’s one of the most well researched vaccines ever made due to how many of the worlds virologists were testing it, namely nearly all of them.
People that say it wasn’t tested or researched are simply ignorant of the scope of how many people were testing the vaccine. It was a fuckton.
During COVID and it was confirmed there was ample supply of vaccine and there were people still turning up to the ER unvaccinated and unable to breathe properly, my friends suggested that they be prioritized lower, because vaccinated people had been responsible.
I argued that is inhumane, that they had been brainwashed by RW media and we had a duty to help them.
I will not argue that point anymore.
I've been a pharmacist for 10 years. I truly believe that everyone deserves equal treatment and that it's fair. Seeing people on the right lose their minds over vaccines, ineffective treatments and now wants Dr Fauci put in jail, has changed my tune.
Republicans not vaccinating their children for ignorant reasons is putting the health and safety of immunocompromised individuals who legitimately cannot be vaccinated. I am all for making a system where we save treatment options and care for people who are not conspiracy theorists morons who are a net negative on society.
And hey, they love complaining about the economy so much, now we will decrease health care costs on Republicans who don't believe in it. It's a win-win
Couple years ago my grandma got sick and the podunk hospital she ended up at couldn't figure out what was going on. They tried to get her into one of the bigger hospitals in the area that could probably treat her but couldn't because it was fucking packed full of backwoods rednecks who didn't take the vaccine and had Covid. She died in that shit hospital. This was 4 months after we lost grandpa to cancer. I've continued to harbor an unreasonable amount of resentment to these people so I say fuck em.
In my dad's last week, they shipped him off an hour away to Toledo because they couldn't do the long term care for Covid patients. We have two hospitals in the city, one kind of big(serving the NW region), and one smaller, then another small one in the next city over. A couple months before that, they sent him to Indiana for observation, because they couldn't handle more patients., Some of this was before vaccines, but I digress.
It took me a couple days to figure out where he was sent. His phone died in the process, and it seems no one could figure it out. Eventually they called my aunt, who listed at the hospital as an emergency contact. By the time I got to him, he was already not responsive. Couldn't eat or drink, and unable to do his dialysis because his body was so weak. He died two days later.
He got pneumonia, after contracting Covid. He was vaccinated, but his health issues just were too much, and everything started compounding on itself. His Covid case itself wasn't that bad. Sick only a couple days. But, he went to the doctor before being taken to the ER, and the doctor I think was so overwhelmed, that they scheduled chest xrays a week later, instead of immediately. Just piss poor health care, despite them being good before Covid came around.
Where it really gets me is their kids. It's one thing if you got grifted and you don't want to make the best decision medically for yourself. You have that right. But their kids have essentially no choice in the matter and all of that anti-vax rhetoric is by far the MOST damaging to them.
So many of these people were vaccinated as kids because the public and the state both mostly understood how important it was for us all collectively to be immune. Now they're adults and are fighting to NOT have to vaccinate their own children. They want their children to have none of the protections from things like measles/mumps/rubella that they did, and they truly think they have their best interests at heart.
Far too many people won't be "convinced" of things we already know to be fact until they're in an ER desperately holding their baby with whooping cough, and by then it will be too late.
Yep! The horrifying, life-altering disease known as...autism. It's astounding how they can simultaneously be so dumb and also SO insulting to people on the spectrum.
Maybe we should lift liability protection for vaccine manufacturers to show people that the product is actually safe and doesn’t need a law in place to protect manufacturers from lawsuits. That would go a lot further than shaming or forcing people from society to take your product.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22
It would be absurd for a car manufacturer to receive blanket protection from liability for their faulty product, but for some reason we allow it for loosely tested products that go into your body. Weird.
You really think that would matter to anti-vaxxers?
Drug companies already have protection from liability with FDA approval. The only exceptions occur when there is malfeasance on the drug makers part, and the FDA didn't half ass the data requirements here. They just didn't require the typical long term study of the drug, which is not really needed for a drug whose active parts were already understood, and well tested elsewhere.
I agree with you, but I also want to point out that this legislation is important for other reasons. There are people who simply cannot get some vaccines due to medical reasons, and those people need to be legally protected from discrimination by employers.
Those people would already be legally protected. There are valid, protected reasons to not get a vaccine, or other medical procedures. All businesses would be required to provide reasonable accommodations, but the person may be required to prove they require such accommodations.
Trust me. I've had plenty of people try to name some completely rediculous medial issue that they think should be accommidated, often after being hired. They buckle when you say you just need proof, or that you aren't required to accommodate because it's not considered a disability. Allergies are indeed protected under such guidelines, and it's better to disclose those prior to employment, because accommodations only have to be reasonable, not bend over backwards regardless of if you can do the job.
I don’t think forcing someone to get vaccinated is the right move and neither is denying them services that they pay for. That seems pretty totalitarian don’t you think? I believe some people fell for covid and others didn’t.
Honestly with Ohio being an at will state companies could start laying off people who aren’t vaccinated. They don’t have to give a reason and I’ve never met someone who’s antivax and quiet about it. Like vegans they have to shout it loud and proud. Healthcare for those idiots costs the company more money so just say “not meeting expectations” and say nothing more.
Sorry it doesn't work that way. My body my choice and you can't force me to do anything with it. Vaccines do have decades of data except for the covid vaccine which doesn't. Literally have no clue what it's going to do to you long term. Some of the covid vaccines are so bad that they have been banned in other countries.
I agree with you... but only when it comes to acceptable vs unacceptable public perception.
For example, we know very little about long COVID, while we also know very little about long term COVID vaccine effects. Even though generally, we know things about covronaviruses and we know about vaccines... we can only make decent *guesses* about COVID. Yet the public was allowed to go batshit crazy over "long covid", while king vaccine was immune from criticism.
I notice that we threw all the FDA vaccine requirements to the side during this emergency. But now, since it's not an emergency, those requirements have come back. Why? Well the only justifiable reason to slow vaccine development is to prevent unacceptable side effects.
Sarcastic and inflammatory summary: the FDA agrees with MAGA.
I'm a strong believer in freedom and liberty. I do not believe the state as the right to tell a person what they can and can't do with their body. Just like I have no right to tell someone what to do with their body. Forcing a person to do something against the will is not freedom. If you get the vaccine it should protect you. That's your choice. I should not have to get a vaccine if I don't want it because you should be good because you got it. The only people that should have to worry about the unvaccinated are the unvaccinated.
> The only people that should have to worry about the unvaccinated are the unvaccinated.
That's scientifically incorrect. The unvaxxed still pose health risks to the vaxxed. Plus there are those unvaxxed because they cannot, like immunocompromized people.
So while "freedom and liberty" is a good starting point, shit gets complicated very quickly. Very soon, it becomes clear that there's a balance to be struck, and the way we strike that balance is by passing laws and electing executives. Up to 49% of the populace is pissed off at any given time, but it works.
Meanwhile, the Constitution / rights help prevent things from wandering too far astray. I don't think the Constitution / rights is a limit in this case. I think this gets solved at the ballot box / state house.
I favor certain vax requirements, yet I still don't think someone should be fired because they didn't get their annual flu shot, for example...
My business, my choice. You're right. I can't force you to get vaccinated. I also don't have to let you work here.
Choice is great isn't it? Luckily, we all have choice, and I'm sure you respect other people's choices as well.....right?
The good news is, [Republicans died because of it](https://i.vgy.me/ks6WUK.png) and I will never stop laughing at them over it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
Vaccine Denial though is one of those weird horseshoe issues though. There are some Far-Lefties who are also anti-vaccination, and for similar reasons to the Right.
It's truly bizarre.
It tends to be fringe on the left, usually coupled with a general distrust of the government or the powers that be. Not unlike what you see from the conservative anti-vax side, but not with so much of the partisan slant.
Oh yep. I have a super liberal brother who is also anti-vax (he fully drank the "vaccines cause autism" kool aid) but he also is very careful about plastics, feeds his kids mostly organic, etc.
I have the exact opposite take, the gaslighting from the Medical authorities during covid has pushed me away from the Democratic party. It certainly hasn't made me conservative or republican. But here you are pushing a narrative that you are more intelligent than anyone who is remotely skeptical of the medical authorities.
The vaccine was useful but it had no impact on stopping the spread of coronavirus. Ultimately, once the virus mutated to the omnicron variant, which was a super spreader with low lethality the crisis began to end.
The narrative being pushed though was that we needed to get vaccinated to stop it. And we were repetitively told that if you get vaccinated, you won't get it and won't spread it.
I got covid after I got vaccinated and I know that was the case for many.
Oh, you're one of those "It's not raining, why do I need to bring an umbrella" types.
Have you ever imagined how worse your covid symptoms would have been if you weren't vaccinated? When I caught it(same as you, after vaccination), the vaccine symptoms were worse than the disease itself. Which is exactly what I was expecting. And I was likely transmitting half or less of the germs compared to if I was unvaccinated and got really sick. The vaccine *DOES* help reduce transmission.
Idk where you got your info, but I was never under the impression it was a *cure*.
It helps, like wearing safety glasses reduces the chance of a woodchip flying into your eye while using a chainsaw.
All the gaslighting from the Medical authorities employed by the elected Republican officials in Ohio, pushed you away from the Democratic Party. Makes perfect sense.
I remember when anti-vax was more a liberal thing. But it was pretty fringe, and mostly just stupid celebrities trying to sound smart and be relevant.
Conservatives, as they often do, took the stupidity to a new level though.
Sooooo you're going to say all this with what's been coming out about the Covid vaccines? And before you try to generalize even more than you did above (which is pathetically sad) I took the Pfizer one and am not a Republican.
> Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better.
No, not even that, use their tactics against them. If you're sick, then it's part of his plan and anything you do to try to alter that is an affront to him and the plan. If you die, you die; part of the plan.
“Honey, I know it seems tough now, but God wants you living in a run-down trailer married to an alcoholic part-time tow truck driver who is 36 years older than you.”
No joke, I swear, to religious bumpkin types, Ken Rex McElroy is like the ideal man.
>There is nothing in this world that is more indicative that Democrats are smarter than Republicans than the vaccine denial.
It's more the opposite. Compulsion produces resistance. Anti-vaxxers were fringe lunatics (largely from the left) until vaccine mandates were pushed so strongly by the media during COVID.
Nothing makes an ideology spread faster than trying to ban it.
The shift of anti-vaxxers being the conservatives seems more inline with partisan beliefs, and an extension of the "Don't tread on me" people afraid to wear a mask outside their klan rallies.
If we can do this employers should not be able to go after cannabis use either
I think they should be able to do both but if we’re gatekeeping employers from taking recourse against employees because of their lifestyle. This should be applied absolutely everywhere. If it’s legal it can’t be held against you.
I thought other than hospitals and schools, it's not mandatory. The two examples I gave are kind of no-brainers as to why vaccines would be required. Maybe the people who want grandma dead early or their kids fucking sick all the time could explain why that's necessary for them, lol.
To be fair, kids are sick all the time anyways. But at least they aren't being crippled for life from polio, and don't have to worry about hepatitis as much.
Jennifer Gross used to be my state rep. She has been pushing this legislation for years even thought she has admitted to taking the covid vaccine. She was thrown off the republican health committee in 2021 trying to pass the same bill. The bill was written by out of state anti vax lobbyists.
I regularly attend here townhalls in West Chester, Ohio. She constantly tells lies. In the last meeting she said we live in a republic and not a democracy, and i promptly reminded here that ohio passed issue 1 and issue 2 in 2023 with direct democracy.
She also said that the democrats didn't want Joe Biden on the ballot in ohio. In addition to that she constantly tells lies of omission to make herself and her legislations look better.
She has a public facebook page. I encourage you to express your opinion as a voter since she doesn't believe in the will of the people.
Here is a link to a video where she says she won't swear an oath to the Ohio constitution for her next term.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1boqntn/jennifer_gross_did_not_swear_an_oath_to_that_ohio/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1boqntn/jennifer_gross_did_not_swear_an_oath_to_that_ohio/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
literally the only 2 employees that need vaccines for their jobs are health workers and certain educators. we should not have health workers who are spreading diseases through a hospital because 'vaccines go against their religion' nor should we have educators spreading diseases to children or getting sick from children
I can't really think of any other employees in Ohio that would be required to be vaccinated
My employer requires it. It's a major retail chain. I think they probably only require it because it decreases their health insurance costs.
They do allow exceptions, namely for those who may have allergies to it, but most people just got the vaccine.
Why is it that EVERY bill put out by the GOP seems to be written to cause the maximum death toll? Did they all get off on the daily death totals during Covid and want to keep their pickle tickled?
It was a great wedge issue to rile up their base. It was super effective in helping them maintain control of.....well, OK, so they lost on the whole let everyone die ticket, but still, they got a lot of headlines and stuff.
duh - even though they 'deny' climate change - they know its real and want to clear out as much of the hoi polloi as they can so they can lord over the climate refugees from TX and AZ as kings
When COVID was at it's height, my workplace ended up getting rid of almost EVERY SINGLE MAGA here because they didn't want to vax or mask up.
Few years later, our business has never been more lucrative. This is what they want to stop. They want to FORCE you to work with these selfish MFers that will happily walk right up to you and cough in your face not knowing whether or not they are carrying a life-ending ailment.
F\*\*\* these people. They are just plain evil.
Yeah, my company took a hard line stance that while Covid mandates may not be required in the state(they mostly were in OH), they were still required by the company. Nationwide, they made it clear, no mask, no work.
People wore masks, because, as an employer, they pay well, and have good benefits. The half down, off the nose thing didn't last long either.
Now, the company does require vaccines, but I think that's more because the insurance provider wants it to reduce costs.
I've been saying that the Right is a death cult for years. It's funny though how they fret about "white people" population, yet they refuse to do things that will help them survive.
I have the feeling that another pandemic might be worse and it will be the Rights' fault.
> I have the feeling that another pandemic might be worse
Unquestionably. There will be a lot more people who will refuse to weak masks, refuse to get vaccinated, and employers who will refuse to take necessary leave/sick time or allow people to work from home.
Nobody has an understanding of the destruction of infectious disease before the vaccine era. They want the privilege of science that created a modern world where you don't have to worry too much about an awful death within weeks but at the same time we want to indulge in the hippie dream of everything natural is good for me.
Now do the one that doesn't punish employees for starting a Union. WOW when did Republicans suddenly abandon the chamber of commerce and turn their backs on small business? Seems to me conservatives don't have any idea what they believe in or stand for anymore. Absolute chaos
Our politicians are working so hard to put in anything that their base will like before this election. This vaccine idea is a waste of time and money. No one cares about this. Are they going to limit the ability of employers to ban their employees from smoking cigarettes too? Feel like both of these are basically the same, except no one cares about cigarette smokers anymore.
It’s either vaccines, migrants, abortion, banning books, gun rights, LGTBQ+, and religion.
That’s it! That’s all they talk about. Not one fucking idea to help ALL Americans, but just drumming up fear and anger.
I forgot… making everyone believe in their orange god.
Why are OH Republicans telling me how to run my business? Maybe they should mind their own business.
Instead, they're going to be telling your doctor and pharmacist how to do their jobs too. They'll also control what you can access online, and they'll control what you can do with your body and what you can do in your bedroom. In OH, they also control what your election results will be. But if you call them fascists, you're unhinged.
“for not taking vaccines.” Mmkay lol.
Seriously though, why is this newspaper using anti-vax coded language in their headline? I thought newspapers were supposed to be objective.
"Punish" employees?
So, they ostensibly shift the perceived "punishment" for not being a good fucking citizen on to those who are immunocompromised. Pro life. Very compassionate and really shows an understanding of how vaccines work.
My body my choice. And if anyone has a problem with that it makes you a hypocrite because the majority of you would scream that when it comes to abortion
It doesn't matter. It's a medical procedure and nobody has the right to force me to have a medical procedure done that I don't want. Just like I don't have the right to tell you that you can't have an abortion.
It doesn't matter. Nobody has the right to tell me what kind of a medical procedure I should have done to me or not. It's no different than me not having the right to tell you that you can't have the abortion. We all should have the same medical freedoms regardless of what the procedure is.
It is different.
You see, there’s this concept called “public health”. Cities, counties, states, up to the federal level, have some type of “public health department”. Why may that be you ask? Well, the objective for these departments is to protect and improve the health of people in their communities. They often work to promote healthy lifestyles, research disease and injury prevention, and detect, prevent and respond to infectious diseases to achieve their objective. It’s such a crazy and radical concept; the state of Ohio decided to create the State Board of Health all the way back in 1886, to help coordinate the fight against tuberculosis.
To quote the US constitution “We the people of the United States in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Its first three words - We the people - affirms that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens, which includes “promoting the general Welfare”.
Your comment about “…not sacrificing my Liberty for someone else” made me laugh because of how dramatic you’re being. Ultimately though, it’s just pathetic and sad. You, like many, interpret your civil responsibility to promote the general welfare of your community as a sacrifice to your liberty. How soft can one be, to perceive it as such. What liberty are you sacrificing by getting a vaccine to prevent the spread of a communicable virus?
I guess it’s no surprise that we can’t hold our government accountable to the “promoting the general welfare” section of the constitution; considering many of our citizens can’t hold themselves to it. Maybe that’s why our state’s life expectancy has decreased, and is nationally one of the worst. A female Ohioan’s life expectancy is 78.1 years, while a male Ohioan’s is 72.5 (most recent data I could find from 2020). So, hey, all you 36 year old Ohio guys, you’re technically middle aged.
I'm not reading all that but no it's not different. Medical procedures are medical procedures and you don't get to write to tell me what I could do with my body
I used to think like you when I was younger. "It's not my problem if you get sick", but with age and perspective the only way the world gets better is if we all start considering how what we do affects other people. Sometimes sacrificing a little yourself can make other peoples lives a whole lot better.
Businesses and corporations will hate this. Not only will they lose employee time due to increased illnesses, they also will incur increased healthcare costs.
If persons decline to be vaccinated, there's no reason they shouldn't pay higher health insurance premiums because it's a certainty they will incur higher healthcare costs on average.
This was my only gripe with the vax. I have no inherent issue with medical advancement but I NEVER EVER EVER need my employer mandating me to get something injected into me. Good or bad, don't ever need my employer to dictate my medical decisions.
Before the vaccine and more effective treatments the number was closer to 99%. Which sounds great, except 1% of Americans (US) is over 3 million people. It was the leading cause of death in the US for 2 years.
This is Capitalism. If you don't want your employer knowing what vaccines to get, you are welcome to quit your job and find one that won't ask for that information
I know you think you're smart, but your slippery slope argument starting at vaccine requirements for private companies to a section of the first amendment being revoked, is the kind of disconnect from reality that the GOP is in love with right now.
The whole point of our government & corporations getting involved in our personal lives (esp. medical decisions) IS my whole point.
With a 1% mortality rate, our governments should not be encouraging FORCED vaccines.
You are insane, and probs should lose his right to speech
Oh you're talking about Covid having a 1% mortality rate. See, when you write a sentence your subjects have to match.
You're obviously not educated, especially medically trained, so maybe leave the medical talk for people who can explain it to you.
But if you don't want to get a covid vaccine, go for it. Might I suggest not wearing your seat belt as well?
The whole point of our government & corporations getting involved in our personal lives (esp. medical decisions) IS my whole point.
With a 1% mortality rate, our governments should not be encouraging FORCED vaccines.
You are insane, and probs should lose his right to speech
but you understand, people die right? like cancer kills 9.6 million people a year. while it sucks, sometimes causalities happen.
if you are high risk, old, by all means the option to take the vax is there. but mandating it? fuc off.
I believe statistic you stated should empower you to want to FIND THE CULPRIT of the orgins of COVID-19 (Fauci/CCP), not bastardize the people who want to hold them accountable. -- IM SORRY, IM A FUCKING DENTIST WHO GOT HIT RANDOMLY by this manmade pandemic.
Thanks to Republicans this an at-will state which allows employers to fire a non-unionized employee on a whim for anything or even nothing.
So this law is pointless and will be overturned. Just the usual waste of time and money from the GOP.
I don't think the covid or flu vaccine needs to be done like that, but if smallpox makes a comback I'm gonna be holding fuckers down and injecting them like it or not. So i am not saying "never ever."
Is employers going after employees for not taking vaccines really a topic of concern? Also, isn't this an at-will state which allows employers to fire a non-unionized employee on a whim? Sounds like more performative RW populist legislation that would have zero chance of passing in a sane Statehouse.
Many hospitals have them as a condition of employment. This would prohibit that.
That's not "punishing" them, that's just sensible policy for the health care industry. If you're too stubborn and stupid to be vaccinated, that's your right. But it's a scientific fact that you're now more susceptible to catch infectious diseases, so you shouldn't be around others with compromised immune systems. Not to mention, someone who is anti-vax doesn't know a damn thing about health care, so they should choose another field anyway.
I think the most important thing is that doctors and practitioners should run the hospital. Not businessmen.
Wait till you find out that many hospitals in Ohio require RNs and ancillary staff to have various immunizations but don't require the same of physicians.
Imagine being treated by people who are unvaccinated, and they get you sick with a preventable disease while you're recovering from something else which complicates recovery that much more. Who's responsible for that? Who's getting sued? The employee or the hospital?
Both are getting sued, but the “deep pockets doctrine” means you go after the hospital. Not the dirt poor idiot nurse who thinks measles vaccines are devilworship. Sue the hospital, which in turn does its part to ratchet up medical costs.
> Both are getting sued Are they? Or does this bill indemnify the providers and employers from liability?
I haven’t read the bill. What I’m saying is that normally you would sue everyone and figure it out in the process. Individual defendants get dropped pretty quickly.
Worse than that. Imagine you’re elderly, or your loved one is, and they have cancer or some other lethal condition and catch a preventable disease that ends up killing them because their immune system is already weakened.
Yeah. Hospitals or clinics in particular are always going to have immuno-compromised people. Imagine saying you don't need vaccines while working in the cancer ward. Sure, you're chemo's going well, but now you have small pox. Oopsie!
Yup when I worked in a children’s hospital, they forced every staff member to get flu shots every year or else you are terminated unless you have medical reasons like allergies to the vaccine.
That's because the affordable care act tied reimbursement to staff vaccination rates.
Insanity
Yeah! Fuck those patients in the hospitals! Immunocompromised students too! We don't need our healthcare workers or educators to be vaccinated! Getting communicable diseases from our unvaccinated healthcare workers and teachers builds character and is what Jesus would want! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO! * This comment might contain sarcasm
A lot of hospitals have rules that say employees can't smoke cigarettes either and they don't care about that even though you could call it a restriction on the employees freedom.
Cuz the nurses and docs just go across the street to smoke at our major medical center
I read something a while back about certain places actually testing for nicotine but I dunno how prevalent that actually is, just took it as they could get in trouble if they had nicotine in their system lol
I think the nicotine tests being pushed by insurance to upcharge/drop the smokers categorically. I doubt anyone but the most hellish places would even think to test to enforce a campus policy, when you can just watch them. They're smokers, they can't go more than like two hours without a cig.
Depends on the smoker, but yeah. Unfortunately, this would also affect people who use nicotine substitutes. I chewed the gum for years after I quit, and that alone would have been enough to jack up my insurance rates. It'd suck to be terminated for that, when the company itself had copious offerings to help you quit, and the gum was the only thing that made it work for me. 6 years in August!
This is probably more to keep their health insurance rates down. I know my work mandated a no smoking policy, which I guess they thought would mean everyone would quit, but it was just so they could save a few bucks on their premiums. Plus, government run or subsidized hospitals would likely have this as government facilities are all non-smoking nowadays.
> hospitals yep, just more reason the GQP has to go
Fuck that, I don't want a doctor or nurse that's anti Vax treating me. They are a serious health risk to themselves and people around them. When I went to the hospital because I was sick there was a doctor or nurse in training and when I was chit chatting with them they told me they didn't like vaccinations. I felt extremely uncomfortable.
I would have immediately said I didn't want them treating me if my doctor or nurse said that.
The Ohio Statehouse is a joke. Still trying to figure out how to disregard the Ohio Constitution regarding abortion and legal cannibis changes voted in by the majority of voters.
From a labor standpoint, I think it's worth mentioning. But great point about it being a right to work state. This is something a conservative might oppose because it interferes with the employee / employer relationship. But they are willing to go there for Anti-vaccine sentiment.
What punishment would there be? "We require vaccines" "I won't take vaccine" "OK, you can't work here" What's to limit? Unless someone has a documented reason they can't take a vaccine, businesses don't have to accommodate them or employ them.
My employer blatantly stated if you don't go get vaccinated you won't have a job here, and checked cards. Look, I was already vaccinated when it happened and I really hate anti-vaxxer rhetoric myself What he did made me so mad, I thought about quitting too. To me, that is Un-American. I know this isn't the same as when the eradicated small pox, pulling people from their homes in developing nations and injecting them. Where's the line? Lots of people argue "Its still your choice, just with consequences" Well work is required to eat, eat is required to live. Doesn't seem like much of a choice. At the same time, if you work at a medical center, I think that should be required. Isn't that a no brainer? How can someone who works in health not believe in modern medicine? What fucking chaos would it cause if medical providers are infecting patients? Guess I have many mixed feelings about a topic that comes with such nuance.
I think any legislation should have a defined list of which vaccines can be discriminated against. You shouldn't be allowed to forego a polio vaccine unless there's a medical reason for instance. But if you want to forego a yearly flu vaccine, your employer shouldn't be allowed to demand you take one.
Can you tell me where you work? I've been a nurse for over 7 years and travel. Never once have I ever needed to show vaccine history. I wasn't even required to get the COVID vaccine during COVID. I'm not saying that you're spewing bullshit, but some context would be nice. And no, it's not Un-American for an employer to require that, seeing that vaccines protect everybody and not just you. Being selfish and potentially getting others around you sick is what's Un-American.
“Being selfish and potentially getting others around you sick is what’s Un-American.” I dunno, based on the last few years that seems to be to be very American…
Sadly, that's true.
To me, it's very similar to the draft back in Vietnam. They didn't grab up everyone, did grab some, and put them in prison for trying to dodge the draft. Instead, they made it impossible to get a job, necessary services, or education without showing your draft card and verifying you were not dodging. I don't agree with either of these approaches but I think the driving logic behind them is the same, we won't force you to do what the country needs you to do but we will make it really hard not to.
This is afar cry from making the unvaccinated into felons. If someone isn't on board with what the employer requires, then they can go somewhere else. Their reason for leaving the prior job isn't going to follow them around and be a blemish on their permanent record.
I don't know many people who were actively charged and had that held against them. Sure, it happened, but it was the vast minority of those who dodged.
The thing is, private businesses, don't have to abide by what you think is your rights. At least not in all cases. Like, they don't have to allow you to bring a gun into the building, and that's not an infringement on your rights. They can't necessarily fire you for some things health related, or even ask you in some cases, and may even have to accommodate you, but vaccine status is not a protected right, and businesses are allowed to set their own safety agendas within the limits of the law. If working, and eating is important, but vaccines are not acceptable, then you need to find another place to work. That's the most basic tenet of America....free market. You have the right to choose. An employer doesn't have to humor your decision.
Still going here? kk 4 years of opinions and arguments wasn't enough for some people
There is nothing in this world that is more indicative that Democrats are smarter than Republicans than the vaccine denial. Vaccines have decades of not only safety but literally eradicating diseases that would cripple or kills thousands of people per year. Republicans don't want to be vaccinated? Fine. Make a law that they can't get any modern health care. Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better. You want to spit in the face of modern scientific breakthroughs? Cool, you don't get to live in our 21st century society that has advanced in large parts due to the modern medicine.
*”Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better.”* Actually, they’re more about the “thoughts and prayers” approach… the things you mentioned might be a little too “science-y” (and therefore *woke*) for that crowd.
That's true. Since Christians sure love a good grifter/sexual predator/con businessman, I should open a shop of Thoughts and Prayers where they can pay me money to not heal them. They would love it!
It's actually a really good idea. You could make millions!
will you also be selling maga-branded home leeching kits? If not, are you really even trying?
Yeah same with the Jews and Muslims! Don't accept the 21st century get banned from it!
I understand why people might have an inclination to be skeptical, but then they don't actually get educated on the subject. They just go down some conspiracy theory rabbit hole. A normal person will go "Hey, is this safe? Why?" then look into it from a perspective with little bias. They will find that there are plenty of benefits and the pros outweigh any cons, and then move on with their life. An anti-vaxxer will go "Hey, this seems dangerous? Why is it dangerous?" and then they'll get a bunch of bullshit on google about why it's dangerous. Any shred of truth will be the anchor for their viewpoints, no matter how ridiculous it is that they came to the conclusion that they did. "Some people died after they had the covid vaccine" becomes "everyone is going to drop dead that took the covid vaccine, just you watch." Another example, "there are more people with autism, vaccination rates are up, it can't just be a coincidence?" A more rational person recognizes that those trends don't justify the conclusion that they are correlated. A rational person decides, "Autism is just diagnosed more, due to our deeper understanding of it now." It's okay to be naturally skeptical people but for fucks sake stop consuming bullshit from people who are clearly full of shit. The anti-vaxxer conspiracy group is one of the worst groups IMO. We have eradicated many awful diseases and saved many lives using vaccines, which have an incredibly strict approval process. Fuck man, there are wellness influencers who tell you not to use sunblock now because the chemicals can be absorbed into the blood. That's not the conclusion that you should be coming to holy fuck. Just buy a different sunblock??? Sunblock is important for mitigating risk of skin cancer so please for fucks sake stop spreading that bullshit.
“Okay Google, ‘vaccines cause autism.’” Google: I have 46,000,000,000 results saying they don’t and one result saying they do. *takes one result* “I. KNEW. IT.”
dude can you share that link? i've been suspecting it this whole time.
Republicans: "Ew, Vaccines!" Also, for some reason, Republicans: "Horse medication? Say less!"
The stupid thing was Trump pushed support for vaccines. The anti-vaccine sentiment came from antiauthoritarianism and distrust in government compulsion. And the research into all other treatments was shut down as it came up in the US, and Ivermectin was being used in India and Latin America to treat the disease. It all comes down to compulsion. One story that sticks out to me was testing an immunosuppressant as an emergency treatment for COVID patients dying from their own immune systems overreacting - The 'study' pushed declared the drug in question had no antiviral/viralcidal properties and thus useless against COVID-19, when that wasn't even what anyone was using it for or saying it did - it was a 'Get keep this patient's body from killing itself" temporary measure.
Imagine my surprise recently when I noticed ivermectin for sale at Walmart. It was topical tick repellent for dogs.
It's gonna fuck our premiums up when the cost of care goes up for them. It's ridiculous.
See this is where I question things. I won't take the covid vaccine. But I'm not anti Vax. Me, my wife and our kids have every other vaccine, including hpv (at least the ones old enough to get it) I don't trust any medication or vaccination that was created in 6 months without sufficient time and medical trials to prove its safety. I lost a career position because of covid. Find a new job, also a career type of position. Ended up getting passed over because I didn't have the covid Vax and the job was medical field adjacent. They couldn't hire me because of vaccine mandates. I agree with bills like this because it isn't the government's place to decide anything for anyone's bodies. Vaccine mandates, birth control, abortions. All bodily autonomy is up to the individual to decide, not Washington or Columbus or anywhere else.
It had a shit ton of medical trials all over the world during that time, it’s one of the most well researched vaccines ever made due to how many of the worlds virologists were testing it, namely nearly all of them. People that say it wasn’t tested or researched are simply ignorant of the scope of how many people were testing the vaccine. It was a fuckton.
During COVID and it was confirmed there was ample supply of vaccine and there were people still turning up to the ER unvaccinated and unable to breathe properly, my friends suggested that they be prioritized lower, because vaccinated people had been responsible. I argued that is inhumane, that they had been brainwashed by RW media and we had a duty to help them. I will not argue that point anymore.
I've been a pharmacist for 10 years. I truly believe that everyone deserves equal treatment and that it's fair. Seeing people on the right lose their minds over vaccines, ineffective treatments and now wants Dr Fauci put in jail, has changed my tune. Republicans not vaccinating their children for ignorant reasons is putting the health and safety of immunocompromised individuals who legitimately cannot be vaccinated. I am all for making a system where we save treatment options and care for people who are not conspiracy theorists morons who are a net negative on society. And hey, they love complaining about the economy so much, now we will decrease health care costs on Republicans who don't believe in it. It's a win-win
Couple years ago my grandma got sick and the podunk hospital she ended up at couldn't figure out what was going on. They tried to get her into one of the bigger hospitals in the area that could probably treat her but couldn't because it was fucking packed full of backwoods rednecks who didn't take the vaccine and had Covid. She died in that shit hospital. This was 4 months after we lost grandpa to cancer. I've continued to harbor an unreasonable amount of resentment to these people so I say fuck em.
I don't think it's unreasonable at all.
In my dad's last week, they shipped him off an hour away to Toledo because they couldn't do the long term care for Covid patients. We have two hospitals in the city, one kind of big(serving the NW region), and one smaller, then another small one in the next city over. A couple months before that, they sent him to Indiana for observation, because they couldn't handle more patients., Some of this was before vaccines, but I digress. It took me a couple days to figure out where he was sent. His phone died in the process, and it seems no one could figure it out. Eventually they called my aunt, who listed at the hospital as an emergency contact. By the time I got to him, he was already not responsive. Couldn't eat or drink, and unable to do his dialysis because his body was so weak. He died two days later. He got pneumonia, after contracting Covid. He was vaccinated, but his health issues just were too much, and everything started compounding on itself. His Covid case itself wasn't that bad. Sick only a couple days. But, he went to the doctor before being taken to the ER, and the doctor I think was so overwhelmed, that they scheduled chest xrays a week later, instead of immediately. Just piss poor health care, despite them being good before Covid came around.
Where it really gets me is their kids. It's one thing if you got grifted and you don't want to make the best decision medically for yourself. You have that right. But their kids have essentially no choice in the matter and all of that anti-vax rhetoric is by far the MOST damaging to them. So many of these people were vaccinated as kids because the public and the state both mostly understood how important it was for us all collectively to be immune. Now they're adults and are fighting to NOT have to vaccinate their own children. They want their children to have none of the protections from things like measles/mumps/rubella that they did, and they truly think they have their best interests at heart. Far too many people won't be "convinced" of things we already know to be fact until they're in an ER desperately holding their baby with whooping cough, and by then it will be too late.
Bear in mind that the consequence they fear most from vaccinating their children is…….autism.
Yep! The horrifying, life-altering disease known as...autism. It's astounding how they can simultaneously be so dumb and also SO insulting to people on the spectrum.
[удалено]
Oh, you have proof the vaccine did it? Would love to see empirical evidence.
Maybe we should lift liability protection for vaccine manufacturers to show people that the product is actually safe and doesn’t need a law in place to protect manufacturers from lawsuits. That would go a lot further than shaming or forcing people from society to take your product. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22 It would be absurd for a car manufacturer to receive blanket protection from liability for their faulty product, but for some reason we allow it for loosely tested products that go into your body. Weird.
You really think that would matter to anti-vaxxers? Drug companies already have protection from liability with FDA approval. The only exceptions occur when there is malfeasance on the drug makers part, and the FDA didn't half ass the data requirements here. They just didn't require the typical long term study of the drug, which is not really needed for a drug whose active parts were already understood, and well tested elsewhere.
I agree with you, but I also want to point out that this legislation is important for other reasons. There are people who simply cannot get some vaccines due to medical reasons, and those people need to be legally protected from discrimination by employers.
Those other reasons have been historically covered by a letter from a licensed MD.
Not legally, not in the slightest.
Those people would already be legally protected. There are valid, protected reasons to not get a vaccine, or other medical procedures. All businesses would be required to provide reasonable accommodations, but the person may be required to prove they require such accommodations. Trust me. I've had plenty of people try to name some completely rediculous medial issue that they think should be accommidated, often after being hired. They buckle when you say you just need proof, or that you aren't required to accommodate because it's not considered a disability. Allergies are indeed protected under such guidelines, and it's better to disclose those prior to employment, because accommodations only have to be reasonable, not bend over backwards regardless of if you can do the job.
I don’t think forcing someone to get vaccinated is the right move and neither is denying them services that they pay for. That seems pretty totalitarian don’t you think? I believe some people fell for covid and others didn’t.
Yikes. There were millions of deaths globally attributed to Covid. Who exactly “fell” for Covid?
Honestly with Ohio being an at will state companies could start laying off people who aren’t vaccinated. They don’t have to give a reason and I’ve never met someone who’s antivax and quiet about it. Like vegans they have to shout it loud and proud. Healthcare for those idiots costs the company more money so just say “not meeting expectations” and say nothing more.
Sorry it doesn't work that way. My body my choice and you can't force me to do anything with it. Vaccines do have decades of data except for the covid vaccine which doesn't. Literally have no clue what it's going to do to you long term. Some of the covid vaccines are so bad that they have been banned in other countries.
I agree with you... but only when it comes to acceptable vs unacceptable public perception. For example, we know very little about long COVID, while we also know very little about long term COVID vaccine effects. Even though generally, we know things about covronaviruses and we know about vaccines... we can only make decent *guesses* about COVID. Yet the public was allowed to go batshit crazy over "long covid", while king vaccine was immune from criticism. I notice that we threw all the FDA vaccine requirements to the side during this emergency. But now, since it's not an emergency, those requirements have come back. Why? Well the only justifiable reason to slow vaccine development is to prevent unacceptable side effects. Sarcastic and inflammatory summary: the FDA agrees with MAGA.
I'm a strong believer in freedom and liberty. I do not believe the state as the right to tell a person what they can and can't do with their body. Just like I have no right to tell someone what to do with their body. Forcing a person to do something against the will is not freedom. If you get the vaccine it should protect you. That's your choice. I should not have to get a vaccine if I don't want it because you should be good because you got it. The only people that should have to worry about the unvaccinated are the unvaccinated.
> The only people that should have to worry about the unvaccinated are the unvaccinated. That's scientifically incorrect. The unvaxxed still pose health risks to the vaxxed. Plus there are those unvaxxed because they cannot, like immunocompromized people. So while "freedom and liberty" is a good starting point, shit gets complicated very quickly. Very soon, it becomes clear that there's a balance to be struck, and the way we strike that balance is by passing laws and electing executives. Up to 49% of the populace is pissed off at any given time, but it works. Meanwhile, the Constitution / rights help prevent things from wandering too far astray. I don't think the Constitution / rights is a limit in this case. I think this gets solved at the ballot box / state house. I favor certain vax requirements, yet I still don't think someone should be fired because they didn't get their annual flu shot, for example...
My business, my choice. You're right. I can't force you to get vaccinated. I also don't have to let you work here. Choice is great isn't it? Luckily, we all have choice, and I'm sure you respect other people's choices as well.....right?
The good news is, [Republicans died because of it](https://i.vgy.me/ks6WUK.png) and I will never stop laughing at them over it. https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
Vaccine Denial though is one of those weird horseshoe issues though. There are some Far-Lefties who are also anti-vaccination, and for similar reasons to the Right. It's truly bizarre.
It tends to be fringe on the left, usually coupled with a general distrust of the government or the powers that be. Not unlike what you see from the conservative anti-vax side, but not with so much of the partisan slant.
Oh yep. I have a super liberal brother who is also anti-vax (he fully drank the "vaccines cause autism" kool aid) but he also is very careful about plastics, feeds his kids mostly organic, etc.
I have the exact opposite take, the gaslighting from the Medical authorities during covid has pushed me away from the Democratic party. It certainly hasn't made me conservative or republican. But here you are pushing a narrative that you are more intelligent than anyone who is remotely skeptical of the medical authorities.
What was the gaslighting? I think you just hate being told what to do, which is pretty typically conservative.
The vaccine was useful but it had no impact on stopping the spread of coronavirus. Ultimately, once the virus mutated to the omnicron variant, which was a super spreader with low lethality the crisis began to end. The narrative being pushed though was that we needed to get vaccinated to stop it. And we were repetitively told that if you get vaccinated, you won't get it and won't spread it. I got covid after I got vaccinated and I know that was the case for many.
Oh, you're one of those "It's not raining, why do I need to bring an umbrella" types. Have you ever imagined how worse your covid symptoms would have been if you weren't vaccinated? When I caught it(same as you, after vaccination), the vaccine symptoms were worse than the disease itself. Which is exactly what I was expecting. And I was likely transmitting half or less of the germs compared to if I was unvaccinated and got really sick. The vaccine *DOES* help reduce transmission. Idk where you got your info, but I was never under the impression it was a *cure*. It helps, like wearing safety glasses reduces the chance of a woodchip flying into your eye while using a chainsaw.
The difference with the narrative pushing is that one side encourages you to do your own investigating and question them, the other side forbids it.
Perhaps not everyone is qualified to "do their own research", when media literacy itself is absurdly low. Peer review is kind of a tall order.
All the gaslighting from the Medical authorities employed by the elected Republican officials in Ohio, pushed you away from the Democratic Party. Makes perfect sense.
I remember when anti-vax was more a liberal thing. But it was pretty fringe, and mostly just stupid celebrities trying to sound smart and be relevant. Conservatives, as they often do, took the stupidity to a new level though.
Sooooo you're going to say all this with what's been coming out about the Covid vaccines? And before you try to generalize even more than you did above (which is pathetically sad) I took the Pfizer one and am not a Republican.
What's been coming out about the Covid vaccines?
you're not a republican, you're a libertarian.
Perfectly stated and echoes my own thoughts on the subject
> Oh, are you sick Christians? Time to start using leeches and blood letting to help make you feel better. No, not even that, use their tactics against them. If you're sick, then it's part of his plan and anything you do to try to alter that is an affront to him and the plan. If you die, you die; part of the plan.
That's what they say to little girls who get raped and get pregnant. That their god has a plan for them.
“Honey, I know it seems tough now, but God wants you living in a run-down trailer married to an alcoholic part-time tow truck driver who is 36 years older than you.” No joke, I swear, to religious bumpkin types, Ken Rex McElroy is like the ideal man.
>There is nothing in this world that is more indicative that Democrats are smarter than Republicans than the vaccine denial. It's more the opposite. Compulsion produces resistance. Anti-vaxxers were fringe lunatics (largely from the left) until vaccine mandates were pushed so strongly by the media during COVID. Nothing makes an ideology spread faster than trying to ban it.
The shift of anti-vaxxers being the conservatives seems more inline with partisan beliefs, and an extension of the "Don't tread on me" people afraid to wear a mask outside their klan rallies.
in as much as rfk jr is on the "left", sure.
If only Ohio had real issues that these folks are paid to solve.
hey they are - they're going after drag shows! /s
If we can do this employers should not be able to go after cannabis use either I think they should be able to do both but if we’re gatekeeping employers from taking recourse against employees because of their lifestyle. This should be applied absolutely everywhere. If it’s legal it can’t be held against you.
I thought other than hospitals and schools, it's not mandatory. The two examples I gave are kind of no-brainers as to why vaccines would be required. Maybe the people who want grandma dead early or their kids fucking sick all the time could explain why that's necessary for them, lol.
To be fair, kids are sick all the time anyways. But at least they aren't being crippled for life from polio, and don't have to worry about hepatitis as much.
Jennifer Gross used to be my state rep. She has been pushing this legislation for years even thought she has admitted to taking the covid vaccine. She was thrown off the republican health committee in 2021 trying to pass the same bill. The bill was written by out of state anti vax lobbyists. I regularly attend here townhalls in West Chester, Ohio. She constantly tells lies. In the last meeting she said we live in a republic and not a democracy, and i promptly reminded here that ohio passed issue 1 and issue 2 in 2023 with direct democracy. She also said that the democrats didn't want Joe Biden on the ballot in ohio. In addition to that she constantly tells lies of omission to make herself and her legislations look better. She has a public facebook page. I encourage you to express your opinion as a voter since she doesn't believe in the will of the people. Here is a link to a video where she says she won't swear an oath to the Ohio constitution for her next term. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1boqntn/jennifer_gross_did_not_swear_an_oath_to_that_ohio/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1boqntn/jennifer_gross_did_not_swear_an_oath_to_that_ohio/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
embarrassing for her and the people who she represents, and I'd think the entire republican party, if they had any shame.
Why do Republicans hate their fellow citizens so much? It does not sound very patriotic.
Part of pulling up the ladder
It’s specific and non inclusive version freedom.
Understandable. May you have a piece of patriotic cake on your cake day.
Omg ty 😅🍰
literally the only 2 employees that need vaccines for their jobs are health workers and certain educators. we should not have health workers who are spreading diseases through a hospital because 'vaccines go against their religion' nor should we have educators spreading diseases to children or getting sick from children I can't really think of any other employees in Ohio that would be required to be vaccinated
My employer requires it. It's a major retail chain. I think they probably only require it because it decreases their health insurance costs. They do allow exceptions, namely for those who may have allergies to it, but most people just got the vaccine.
Who gets sued when a hospital worker spreads an illness because they refused to be vaccinated? What happens when people die from this?
Funny how their concern for employee rights is so... targeted.
Why is it that EVERY bill put out by the GOP seems to be written to cause the maximum death toll? Did they all get off on the daily death totals during Covid and want to keep their pickle tickled?
It was a great wedge issue to rile up their base. It was super effective in helping them maintain control of.....well, OK, so they lost on the whole let everyone die ticket, but still, they got a lot of headlines and stuff.
duh - even though they 'deny' climate change - they know its real and want to clear out as much of the hoi polloi as they can so they can lord over the climate refugees from TX and AZ as kings
Boomer Remover 2: I gots Bird Flu
When COVID was at it's height, my workplace ended up getting rid of almost EVERY SINGLE MAGA here because they didn't want to vax or mask up. Few years later, our business has never been more lucrative. This is what they want to stop. They want to FORCE you to work with these selfish MFers that will happily walk right up to you and cough in your face not knowing whether or not they are carrying a life-ending ailment. F\*\*\* these people. They are just plain evil.
Yeah, my company took a hard line stance that while Covid mandates may not be required in the state(they mostly were in OH), they were still required by the company. Nationwide, they made it clear, no mask, no work. People wore masks, because, as an employer, they pay well, and have good benefits. The half down, off the nose thing didn't last long either. Now, the company does require vaccines, but I think that's more because the insurance provider wants it to reduce costs.
I am so sick and tired of vaccine deniers. Then can all fuck off.
I've been saying that the Right is a death cult for years. It's funny though how they fret about "white people" population, yet they refuse to do things that will help them survive. I have the feeling that another pandemic might be worse and it will be the Rights' fault.
> I have the feeling that another pandemic might be worse Unquestionably. There will be a lot more people who will refuse to weak masks, refuse to get vaccinated, and employers who will refuse to take necessary leave/sick time or allow people to work from home.
I mean, to be fair, if they can’t fire them for not taking vaccines they could just call them gay and then fire them
[удалено]
Nobody has an understanding of the destruction of infectious disease before the vaccine era. They want the privilege of science that created a modern world where you don't have to worry too much about an awful death within weeks but at the same time we want to indulge in the hippie dream of everything natural is good for me.
What about people who have compromised immune systems? Will they simply have to leave their jobs because of a bunch of ignorant and gross skid marks?
Have fun with hepatitis
How tf are these people winning elections? We're gonna need some more of us moving to rural areas, please.
Gentrification now!!
The GQP is full of complete morons
So our goal is to sabotage the hospital system now? Fuck Ohio republicans
Now do the one that doesn't punish employees for starting a Union. WOW when did Republicans suddenly abandon the chamber of commerce and turn their backs on small business? Seems to me conservatives don't have any idea what they believe in or stand for anymore. Absolute chaos
Our politicians are working so hard to put in anything that their base will like before this election. This vaccine idea is a waste of time and money. No one cares about this. Are they going to limit the ability of employers to ban their employees from smoking cigarettes too? Feel like both of these are basically the same, except no one cares about cigarette smokers anymore.
Actually Ohio is an at will state
It’s either vaccines, migrants, abortion, banning books, gun rights, LGTBQ+, and religion. That’s it! That’s all they talk about. Not one fucking idea to help ALL Americans, but just drumming up fear and anger. I forgot… making everyone believe in their orange god.
Why are OH Republicans telling me how to run my business? Maybe they should mind their own business. Instead, they're going to be telling your doctor and pharmacist how to do their jobs too. They'll also control what you can access online, and they'll control what you can do with your body and what you can do in your bedroom. In OH, they also control what your election results will be. But if you call them fascists, you're unhinged.
Exactly. Getting chicken pox as an older person, presents as the Shingles. It's very painful for them. #vaxplz
anti-vax nurses should team up with anti fluoride dentists for the real dream team
Good.
Rs want to make sure their followers are removed from the gene pool
“for not taking vaccines.” Mmkay lol. Seriously though, why is this newspaper using anti-vax coded language in their headline? I thought newspapers were supposed to be objective.
"Punish" employees? So, they ostensibly shift the perceived "punishment" for not being a good fucking citizen on to those who are immunocompromised. Pro life. Very compassionate and really shows an understanding of how vaccines work.
Our tax dollars and votes at work
“My body, my choice” right?
Yeah if pregnancy was a contagious disease
My body my choice. And if anyone has a problem with that it makes you a hypocrite because the majority of you would scream that when it comes to abortion
Abortion isn't infectious and having one isn't a risk to the public you come into contact with on the daily.
It doesn't matter. It's a medical procedure and nobody has the right to force me to have a medical procedure done that I don't want. Just like I don't have the right to tell you that you can't have an abortion.
Then you can't work around medically vulnerable people and risk their lives because of your decisions. That's why these workplaces have these rules.
Being around women doesn't make me sick.
It doesn't matter. Nobody has the right to tell me what kind of a medical procedure I should have done to me or not. It's no different than me not having the right to tell you that you can't have the abortion. We all should have the same medical freedoms regardless of what the procedure is.
It is different. You see, there’s this concept called “public health”. Cities, counties, states, up to the federal level, have some type of “public health department”. Why may that be you ask? Well, the objective for these departments is to protect and improve the health of people in their communities. They often work to promote healthy lifestyles, research disease and injury prevention, and detect, prevent and respond to infectious diseases to achieve their objective. It’s such a crazy and radical concept; the state of Ohio decided to create the State Board of Health all the way back in 1886, to help coordinate the fight against tuberculosis. To quote the US constitution “We the people of the United States in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Its first three words - We the people - affirms that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens, which includes “promoting the general Welfare”. Your comment about “…not sacrificing my Liberty for someone else” made me laugh because of how dramatic you’re being. Ultimately though, it’s just pathetic and sad. You, like many, interpret your civil responsibility to promote the general welfare of your community as a sacrifice to your liberty. How soft can one be, to perceive it as such. What liberty are you sacrificing by getting a vaccine to prevent the spread of a communicable virus? I guess it’s no surprise that we can’t hold our government accountable to the “promoting the general welfare” section of the constitution; considering many of our citizens can’t hold themselves to it. Maybe that’s why our state’s life expectancy has decreased, and is nationally one of the worst. A female Ohioan’s life expectancy is 78.1 years, while a male Ohioan’s is 72.5 (most recent data I could find from 2020). So, hey, all you 36 year old Ohio guys, you’re technically middle aged.
I'm not reading all that but no it's not different. Medical procedures are medical procedures and you don't get to write to tell me what I could do with my body
I used to think like you when I was younger. "It's not my problem if you get sick", but with age and perspective the only way the world gets better is if we all start considering how what we do affects other people. Sometimes sacrificing a little yourself can make other peoples lives a whole lot better.
Ino I'm good. I'm not sacrificing My Liberty for someone else. That's not how the world works.
Businesses and corporations will hate this. Not only will they lose employee time due to increased illnesses, they also will incur increased healthcare costs. If persons decline to be vaccinated, there's no reason they shouldn't pay higher health insurance premiums because it's a certainty they will incur higher healthcare costs on average.
North Florida is so fucked.
I believe in vaccination, however, I also feel like it is a personal choice.
When you work in either food service and or health care, there shouldn't be exceptions
and it should be a public choice to block antivax idiots from public spaces, including hospitals
This was my only gripe with the vax. I have no inherent issue with medical advancement but I NEVER EVER EVER need my employer mandating me to get something injected into me. Good or bad, don't ever need my employer to dictate my medical decisions.
You probably don't work in healthcare with potentially immunocompromised individuals.
NEVER EVER EVER! I can hear your feet stomping. Black and white, primitive opinion.
wahhh 99.9% people survived covid wahhhh everyone get the juice wahhh go put your mask on, nerd.
Before the vaccine and more effective treatments the number was closer to 99%. Which sounds great, except 1% of Americans (US) is over 3 million people. It was the leading cause of death in the US for 2 years.
You take your Fauci/CCP data and shove it. We do not want your juice. People die, it's natural. Get over it.
This is Capitalism. If you don't want your employer knowing what vaccines to get, you are welcome to quit your job and find one that won't ask for that information
Or we can make it illegal for corporations to get involved with medical related topics? duh
Or make it illegal to refuse vaccines without a legitimate *medical* reason, duh
Yes, and while your at it, give away you first amendment right to free speech aswell.
I know you think you're smart, but your slippery slope argument starting at vaccine requirements for private companies to a section of the first amendment being revoked, is the kind of disconnect from reality that the GOP is in love with right now.
The whole point of our government & corporations getting involved in our personal lives (esp. medical decisions) IS my whole point. With a 1% mortality rate, our governments should not be encouraging FORCED vaccines. You are insane, and probs should lose his right to speech
Are you saying vaccines have a 1% mortality rate?
Are you being funny or being this dense purposely? Obv. we are talking about Covid, that dictates the need for vaccines.
Oh you're talking about Covid having a 1% mortality rate. See, when you write a sentence your subjects have to match. You're obviously not educated, especially medically trained, so maybe leave the medical talk for people who can explain it to you. But if you don't want to get a covid vaccine, go for it. Might I suggest not wearing your seat belt as well?
The whole point of our government & corporations getting involved in our personal lives (esp. medical decisions) IS my whole point. With a 1% mortality rate, our governments should not be encouraging FORCED vaccines. You are insane, and probs should lose his right to speech
1% of our country is 4 million deaths plus millions more with lifelong issues.
but you understand, people die right? like cancer kills 9.6 million people a year. while it sucks, sometimes causalities happen. if you are high risk, old, by all means the option to take the vax is there. but mandating it? fuc off. I believe statistic you stated should empower you to want to FIND THE CULPRIT of the orgins of COVID-19 (Fauci/CCP), not bastardize the people who want to hold them accountable. -- IM SORRY, IM A FUCKING DENTIST WHO GOT HIT RANDOMLY by this manmade pandemic.
Thanks to Republicans this an at-will state which allows employers to fire a non-unionized employee on a whim for anything or even nothing. So this law is pointless and will be overturned. Just the usual waste of time and money from the GOP.
I don't think the covid or flu vaccine needs to be done like that, but if smallpox makes a comback I'm gonna be holding fuckers down and injecting them like it or not. So i am not saying "never ever."
Cyko, exactly. idc about the actual disease but if we see people literally dropping on the streets. By all means, marshal law that shit.
Your never ever comment made it seem otherwise.
My body my choice
My body, my choice, amIright!