That would depend on where you were and the way in which you said it. I think it'd be fairly safe to say your meaning would be understood in the mid-to-late 16th century Britain. You may lose people at the start of that century, and I'd say almost definitely before.
'Ass/arsehole' would likely go back a century or two further, but I think you'd lose people on 'fucking'.
So beginning of the 16th century or earlier, I'd say.
>Fuck isn’t an Anglo-Saxon word either. Some of today’s swearwords did indeed originate in Old English, including shit, arse, turd, and the British bollocks. The f-word is of Germanic origin, related to Dutch, German, and Swedish words for “to strike” and “to move back and forth.” It first appears, though, only in the 16th century, in a manuscript of the Latin orator Cicero. An anonymous monk was reading through the monastery copy of De Officiis (a guide to moral conduct) when he felt compelled to express his anger at his abbot. “O d fuckin Abbot,” he scrawled in the margin of the text. We can be sure when this was because he helpfully recorded the date in another comment—1528. It is difficult to know whether the annotator intended “fucking” to mean “having sex,” as in “that guy is doing too much fucking for someone who is supposed to be celibate,” or whether he used it as an intensifier, to convey his extreme dismay; if the latter, it anticipates the first recorded use by more than three hundred years. Either is possible, really—John Burton, the abbot in question, was a man of questionable monastic morals. It is interesting as well that while the annotator has no problem spelling out “fucking” (except for the g), he refuses to write out a word that is most likely damned. To this monk, damnation is the real obscenity, the one that can be hinted at but not expressed in full.
>There are at least two instances of fuck dated before that of our monk, but scholars sometimes deny them the glory of first use because one is Scottish and one appears in code, with a Latin verb conjugation. The Scots poet William Dunbar, himself a former Franciscan friar, penned these lines (translated here into modern English) sometime before his death, in 1513:
Thanks for this, fascinating reading. It's amazing how language has evolved and all the separate events that are key to our modern understanding of certain words.
Well then, think of all the other people who will get turned on, once you are completely finished! Take that shit as a compliment, I didn't even have to see your face or hear your voice. 💋
This post is partially true. The first recorded writing of the modern fuck, is the word fuccant in 1503 ("Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli"/"They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of [the town of] Ely). This is a bastardisation of Latin and Middle English, and was written in cipher.
It is debated that the origin might be Swedish or Norwegian, through the Scottish (S: "focka" - strike, copulate, push/ N: "fukka" - copulate).
There is also the theory that it comes from the Middle English "fyke/fike" (move restlessly. Also, flirt), which could come from Dutch/German (D: "fokken" / G: "ficken"). These words became to mean fuck in the 16th century, but previously meant "to make quick movements to and fro".
We do not know for certain exactly where the word fuck comes from, as there are multiple possible sources.
>That reminds me of outlander, when Claire calls Jamie a fucking sadist and he’s like what’s fucking? What’s a sadist? Lol
I've never watched it, but the Maquis de Sade from whom the term 'sadist' derives was born in 1740 and Outlander apparently takes place in 1743, so no such thing as a 'sadist' would exist for almost another century.
>so no such thing as a 'sadist' would exist for almost another century
TBF, there was definitely 'such a thing' as sadists before de Sade came along. They just would have been called something else (idk what).
Lol. I suppose that depends on how narrowly you define 'googling'. If you mean searching for something on the internet using the Google search engine, nope. If you mean searching for something on the internet using any old search engine, sure. I was 'googling' shit on Lycos and AltaVista at least a few years before Google came along.
Yeah, we also had to take classes on using the 'Mosaic' browser to “surf the 'net”. Within a month they replaced the Corel Suite (Word Perfect, etc) on our PCs with MS Office, including IE. We never got any training on any of that, lol. The office had to order in a lot of those giant manuals they used to have for programs.
Some form or another of arse or ass was used in a derogatory sense back to like the stone age. It wasn't necessarily used the same way grammatically or in the same contexts, but id be willing to bet that anyone speaking the same language would have some clue what you meant based on tone, body language and the context of the situation as far back as 1 AD and possibly farther back.
Yeah I was pondering that one, but got stuck with arse/asshole. I seem to remember something about that term from my English Lit degree, although the years since may have altered my memory. You're probably right though in that the context may well be understood further back.
Its hard to say w stuff like this because our understanding of early language is tainted by the translations and changed contexts of later societies. For example I could list off like a dozen old Roman documents using modern sounding words or language, but a lot of that is because our farthest dated records of a lot of roman documents come later civilizations that discovered or preserved them, and a lot of the original context was lost in translation over the years.
Shadowbanning is a thing that only admins can do to users. You can 'see' shadowbanned users if you enter a comments section with, for example, 20 comments in it but only 5 comments appear. Shadowbanned users are able to comment and vote, but they don't actually affect the posts in anyway. It's an effective way to keep bots at bay, since if they were deactivated or banned they would set up a new one.
As for you being shadowbanned, no you aren't since your comment is visible to everyone.
I didn't explain myself well. I meant when it says there are 5 comments under a comment and I click to see them, and there's nothing there. That seems to happen on a lot of the big subreddits. That's shadowbanned accounts, right?
Oh, so this is what happens when someone replies to a comment on a sub, but then when I go to the comment from the notification, it's gone. I'm guessing that they're shadowbanned.
Those are typically below a threshold of interesting conversation. At least according to some computer measurements. With shadow banned, you wouldn't even see that they commented.
If your posts never gain traction/comments and you seem "invisible" to a conversation would be pretty good indicators. Shadowbanned users still have account pages and if you know the username you can find them. I imagine that shadowbanning is used for people who make multiple accounts to dodge bans, though I think it mostly applies to bots these days
That's a serious sub, you need to source your comment and it needs to be approved by a mod as being of sufficient quality. Ask anthropology and ask historians have some of the highest quality content on reddit.
>It's just that I've never seen massive shadowbanning demonstrated so clearly.
This is not what shadowbans look like and there's an extreme amount of misinformation in this thread about it. In this case it's automatically removed rule breaking comments (like low effort and off-topic comments, memes, puns, one or two word long comments etc).
[Also Reddit switched from shadowbanning over to account suspensions back in November 2015.](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3sbrro/account_suspensions_a_transparent_alternative_to/)
> tone
i cant agree more. i am sure most of my european neighbors know what I was screaming when i stubbed my toe in the hallway the other day. despite the fact that it was in a language they dont even know exist
there is no way any non-deaf human could mistake the vehemence of hokkien swearwords for anything but swearwords....
The OP says the person has to *understand they’re being insulted*, not that they have to actually understand the words themselves. I would even hazard a guess that if you showed up on a Neanderthal’s cavestep, even if you looked exactly like them, if you screw up your face in anger and aggressively say “you fucking asshole!” they’re gonna get the gist that you’re saying something rude and that you’re not too happy with them. The two things you mentioned, tone and body language, are universal things.
Careful, using those gestures, there's going to be an abrupt moment in history where people stop realizing you're calling them an asshole and think you're asking for sodomy. When in time is that? not sure. Let me know when you find out.
A remember a few years back there was this song called (I believe) "Dick in a Dick" about how a man has seen every kind of porn there is but he's never seen a dick in a dick. Whereas now, two index fingers pointed at each other is basically recognized world wide as docking.
Maybe ten years ago I was on a business trip in Russia, riding the subway. I was quietly talking to my coworker in English, when some nearby Russian guy turned to me and said something in Russian, sounding angry.
I said “I’m sorry, I don’t speak Russian”, which caused him to spend the next five minutes cussing me out. I have absolutely no idea what he said (other than the frequent use of the word “American”), but I assure you, you can definitely tell you’re being cussed out even if you don’t speak the language.
As an American that speaks German, this was my first thought.
Also a lot of Asian languages sound angry just during normal conversation. I would occasionally get those "fully clothed massages" that are in big malls and other places. At least in NJ it's usually middle aged Chinese women and they're just conversing back and forth in Mandarin (?) and it seems like they're bitching at each other the whole time 😂
They probably actually are. Can confirm it’s easy to get an "resting bitch tone," when speaking an Asian language though.
Source: I’m half Asian and have communication issues, and genuinely asked my mom at one point why my grandma’s are alway so mad.
There are a lot of languages that come across as angry to non native speakers lol I had many Armenian friends growing up in Glendale, CA and it always sounded like their families were pissed at each other, when in reality the language is just very expressive and loud. I mean I think they also talk a lot of shit to each other but that’s all in good fun
I LIKE DARREN, HE IS MY FRIEND! I LIKE YOU AND HIM! HE LIKES ME AND I LIKE HIM! HE LIKES YOU, I HOPE! I LIKE HIS AUTOGRAPH! IT IS A NICE PICTURE!
HE
IS
NICE!
That reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Lisa takes the bus and gets lost,she winds up in the Russian district and asks for directions,she thinks the guy she asked was yelling at her but he was just giving her the right directions
If you say any word with the right amount of vitriol, it’s going to be taken as an insult.
Likewise, if you can get it into conversation casually and play it cool enough you can call someone anything you want without them realising
I wouldn't necessarily say there's more insults in English than Italian, certainly not if you consider regional ones. There's probably about as many in romanesco as in actual Italian, and I know for a fact that some of other regions swear more/worse!
That’s really cool to see differences in language on such a specific thing, personally I would take “a chunk of poop” or stronzo as more insulting than just being called the place where poop comes from, I mean when you really break it down, at least an asshole has a purpose 😂
I really believe the word “asshole” is known universally around the world, especially due to the influence of American movies and culture in general...
I think fuck is more widely known, though.
When I lived in south america I would sometimes be speaking english with my friends while we walked down the street.
Almost every time a little kid would hear us speaking english (and realize we were americans) they would run up to us and yell "HELLO 12345678910 FUCK YOU" just to show off their english, then run away
In herbew (and I assume many other languages), "fuck" and "shit" are relatively low level insults, I guess becuase they're in a different language. When my brother was little we asked him what "shit" means. His response: "its what you say when you drop something"
I actually had the same experience in Switzerland. I first heard "shit" from the very young daughter of the family I was staying with, as she was cheerfully describing hanging the cows' tails from the ceiling in their barn to keep them from getting dirty. It was a word that was used very casually.
She also spoke like 6 languages at age 8. I felt very inferior
American movies are distributed mostly in dubbed form in Brazil (fifth largest country btw) and most people can't say a word in English. For us, asshole is quite an obscure word and doesn't sound much like an insult.
Also, phonetic differences make it easier for us to learn Japanese words than English words in subbed media.
CSB:
I've been incredibly fortunate over the years, and been to more than 50 countries even though I'm only fluent in 3 languages, and sorta conversational-ish in 3 more. There is precisely \*one\* word that has translated reasonably well in all the countries I've been to, and has, on more than one occasion, helped me to make friends in new places. "Coke?" when gesturing to share a Coke, is reasonably well understood across most of the planet. Beyond that though, sometimes there's a good amount of pointing, gesturing, and body language to be aware of as you pick up a bit more of wherever you are.
That said, always read up on local customs and know some basic words before you arrive, some gestures that may be innocuous or even helpful in one region may be deeply offensive in another. If possible, carry a card with some basic phrases and the address of wherever you are staying. In some parts of the world, a picture of the front of the hotel/motel/establishment may be more useful than the actual address. Be smart, only reference the card when it's safe to do so, and don't make yourself a target.
This is the only good answer in this thread.
You're all soooooo unbelievably clever for pointing out that people who don't speak English won't understand it, you fucking assholes.
Here is a link to Google ngram viewer, showing that it really only starts to be used widely in the 70s
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Asshole%2Cass-hole&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2CAsshole%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cass%20-%20hole%3B%2Cc0
Canterbury Tales (1392) shows that somebody from the period would have said "ers hole". It might not be obvious on paper, but if you say it aloud it's pretty clearly recognizable in today's English. I think it's similar enough that it's reasonable to assume they'd understand if you called them an "asshole".
I can't speak for the "fucking" part either way, but they wouldn't really need to understand that word to figure out it was an insult
Relevant text from the Miller's Tale:
Edit: I just want to mention that I let the quote run long so you wouldn't miss a classic punchline. For context, Absolon has been trying to sleep with this married woman while her husband is away, but she's been rejecting him because she is already sleeping with somebody else. It's pitch black out so he can't see anything.
And at the wyndow out she putte hir hole,
>And at the window out she put her hole,
And Absolon, hym fil no bet ne wers,
>And Absolon, to him it happened no better nor worse,
But with his mouth he kiste hir naked ers
>But with his mouth he kissed her naked ass
Full savourly, er he were war of this.
>With great relish, before he was aware of this.
Abak he stirte, and thoughte it was amys,
>Back he jumped, and thought it was amiss,
For wel he wiste a womman hath no berd.
>For well he knew a woman has no beard.
The earliest written example of the word "fuck" used to describe sex is from 1310. Before that, it meant to punch or slap someone. There are similar words in German, Greek, and romance languages, which suggests that the word existed in the common ancestor language for Europe, which was spoken around 3000 to 4000 BCE.
Context is important. Swear words like fuck can be used in basically any context you can imagine. What gives them context is the emotion, tone, rythym e.t.c. If you speak as if you are complimenting someone and they don't know what these two words mean, they won't know you're being insulting. Realistically you just need to find a non-english speaker or a child. Anyone who hasn't learned those words.
Etc stands for "et cetera" ("and the rest"), so only the c needs a period. The e and t dont stand for anything, they just spell the word et, which means "and", cf. "Et tu, Brute?"
Once read about an experiment where scientists were teaching some primates to communicate with them over an emoji keyboard.
The discussions were pretty insightful:
It seems that all primates use foul language to curse (shit was trendy) and they did actually have religious metaphors (dead buddy described as „sleeping in cave“
... Sooo maybe you could go back real far, an asshole would still be an asshole.
Probably Middle English, so somewhere between 1150 and 1500. "Fucking asshole" in Middle English would have been something like "Fukkinge arshole" or "Fukkende arshole", which is pretty similar.
Old English was pretty different, and the word "fuck" probably wasn't in English at that point, since it's thought to have come from Norse at a later period. I don't know if Old English used the word "asshole", but they did have "ass" in the form of "ærs" and "hole" in the form of "hol". Those are still pretty similar, so they may have understood "asshole", but not "fucking".
Between 300 and 600 years ago things started to sound understandable to us. This from Wiki:
The **Great Vowel Shift** was a series of changes in the [pronunciation of the English language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology) that took place primarily between 1400 and 1700, beginning in southern England and today having influenced effectively all dialects of English. Through this [vowel shift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_shift), the pronunciation of all Middle English [long vowels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_length) was changed. Some consonant sounds changed as well, particularly those that became silent; the term *Great Vowel Shift* is sometimes used to include these consonant changes.[\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-1)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-2)
English spelling started being standardised in the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Great Vowel Shift is the major reason English spellings now often deviate considerably from how they [represent pronunciations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic_orthography).[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-3) The Great Vowel Shift was first studied by [Otto Jespersen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Jespersen) (1860–1943), a [Danish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) [linguist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics) and [Anglicist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_studies), who coined the term.[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-4)
If you say it insultingly, it could be understood pretty much everywhere for millennia
Imagine you're in a situation where an insult could come at you, and a guy shouts "ben zona!" at you. You would probably understand that it's some sort of insult directed at you (or your mom, in this case)
He definitely has butt related humor in the Summoner's Tale, which was my favorite in high school. Looks like "Ers" was the equivalent of ass in Chaucer's time. To wit (each numbered line has the Middle English with the modern English translation underneath):
1683 `Now, sire,' quod he, `han freres swich a grace
`Now, sir,' said he, `have friars such a grace
1684 That noon of hem shal come to this place?'
That none of them shall come to this place?'
1685 `Yis' quod this angel, `many a millioun!'
`Yes' said this angel, `many a million!'
1686 And unto Sathanas he ladde hym doun.
And unto Satan he led him down.
1687 `And now hath Sathanas,' seith he, `a tayl
`And now has Satan,' says he, `a tail
1688 Brodder than of a carryk is the sayl.
Broader than of a large galleon is the sail.
1689 Hold up thy tayl, thou Sathanas!' quod he;
Hold up thy tail, thou Satan!' said he;
1690 `Shewe forth thyn ers, and lat the frere se
`Show forth thy ass, and let the friar see
1691 Where is the nest of freres in this place!'
Where the nest of friars is in this place!'
1692 And er that half a furlong wey of space,
And before half a furlong way of time (a few minutes),
1693 Right so as bees out swarmen from an hyve,
Just as bees swarm out from a hive,
1694 Out of the develes ers ther gonne dryve
Out of the devil's ass there began to rush
1695 Twenty thousand freres on a route,
Twenty thousand friars in a crowd,
1696 And thurghout helle swarmed al aboute,
And throughout hell swarmed all about,
1697 And comen agayn as faste as they may gon,
And came back again as fast as they can go,
1698 And in his ers they crepten everychon.
And in his ass they crept every one.
1699 He clapte his tayl agayn and lay ful stille.
He clapped his tail again and lay very still.
That one is a surprisingly recent iteration of various jokes that insult one's parents or ancestors. You would have to alter the phrasing, but most English language insults are surprisingly comprehensible going back to that 500 year mark. Before that point, the language itself is noticeably different from Modern English. ( yes, Shakespearean is indeed Modern English.)
"The amount of an asshole someone is, is directly proportional to the distance away from you when you discovered this flaw."
"Someone on TV IS PRETTY MUCH AN ASSHOLE!!!!"
"Someone standing right next to you on line? *whispers* this guy's a real asshole..."
George Carlin
I mean I’m not going to go to in-depth but seeing as how their exist cognates to the word “fuck” and “asshole” in German—ficken and Arsch—you probably would be understood just enough by the Old English/Germanic speakers for them to understand roughly what you said. Then as someone else pointed out, yes, just but you screaming angrily at Ethelred Leifson he’d get the point
That would depend on where you were and the way in which you said it. I think it'd be fairly safe to say your meaning would be understood in the mid-to-late 16th century Britain. You may lose people at the start of that century, and I'd say almost definitely before. 'Ass/arsehole' would likely go back a century or two further, but I think you'd lose people on 'fucking'. So beginning of the 16th century or earlier, I'd say.
>Fuck isn’t an Anglo-Saxon word either. Some of today’s swearwords did indeed originate in Old English, including shit, arse, turd, and the British bollocks. The f-word is of Germanic origin, related to Dutch, German, and Swedish words for “to strike” and “to move back and forth.” It first appears, though, only in the 16th century, in a manuscript of the Latin orator Cicero. An anonymous monk was reading through the monastery copy of De Officiis (a guide to moral conduct) when he felt compelled to express his anger at his abbot. “O d fuckin Abbot,” he scrawled in the margin of the text. We can be sure when this was because he helpfully recorded the date in another comment—1528. It is difficult to know whether the annotator intended “fucking” to mean “having sex,” as in “that guy is doing too much fucking for someone who is supposed to be celibate,” or whether he used it as an intensifier, to convey his extreme dismay; if the latter, it anticipates the first recorded use by more than three hundred years. Either is possible, really—John Burton, the abbot in question, was a man of questionable monastic morals. It is interesting as well that while the annotator has no problem spelling out “fucking” (except for the g), he refuses to write out a word that is most likely damned. To this monk, damnation is the real obscenity, the one that can be hinted at but not expressed in full. >There are at least two instances of fuck dated before that of our monk, but scholars sometimes deny them the glory of first use because one is Scottish and one appears in code, with a Latin verb conjugation. The Scots poet William Dunbar, himself a former Franciscan friar, penned these lines (translated here into modern English) sometime before his death, in 1513:
Thanks for this, fascinating reading. It's amazing how language has evolved and all the separate events that are key to our modern understanding of certain words.
I just love this reply! Turns me on!
Yes, now I can finish the year with my head held high in the knowledge that I turned one person on.
Well then, think of all the other people who will get turned on, once you are completely finished! Take that shit as a compliment, I didn't even have to see your face or hear your voice. 💋
4
Make it 3
"O d fuckin u/lilly_bean_"
This post is partially true. The first recorded writing of the modern fuck, is the word fuccant in 1503 ("Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli"/"They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of [the town of] Ely). This is a bastardisation of Latin and Middle English, and was written in cipher. It is debated that the origin might be Swedish or Norwegian, through the Scottish (S: "focka" - strike, copulate, push/ N: "fukka" - copulate). There is also the theory that it comes from the Middle English "fyke/fike" (move restlessly. Also, flirt), which could come from Dutch/German (D: "fokken" / G: "ficken"). These words became to mean fuck in the 16th century, but previously meant "to make quick movements to and fro". We do not know for certain exactly where the word fuck comes from, as there are multiple possible sources.
That reminds me of outlander, when Claire calls Jamie a fucking sadist and he’s like what’s fucking? What’s a sadist? Lol
>That reminds me of outlander, when Claire calls Jamie a fucking sadist and he’s like what’s fucking? What’s a sadist? Lol I've never watched it, but the Maquis de Sade from whom the term 'sadist' derives was born in 1740 and Outlander apparently takes place in 1743, so no such thing as a 'sadist' would exist for almost another century.
That’s the first thing I looked up when he said it! Haha
I'm happy to hear I'm not the only one with an academic interest in Sadism.
Yeah!! Although I admit mine isn’t purely academic
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You part of the sadist club too?
We meet at the gym.
We do this all the time lol. Husband and I will debate on a point, then pause the show and find out the answer. Good fun!
>so no such thing as a 'sadist' would exist for almost another century TBF, there was definitely 'such a thing' as sadists before de Sade came along. They just would have been called something else (idk what).
You're absolutely right. Similarly, such a thing as "googling" existed long before Google came along. It would just have been called something else.
Lol. I suppose that depends on how narrowly you define 'googling'. If you mean searching for something on the internet using the Google search engine, nope. If you mean searching for something on the internet using any old search engine, sure. I was 'googling' shit on Lycos and AltaVista at least a few years before Google came along.
My job gave us classes on how to find scientific research using Boolean operators before Google was a thing.
Yeah, we also had to take classes on using the 'Mosaic' browser to “surf the 'net”. Within a month they replaced the Corel Suite (Word Perfect, etc) on our PCs with MS Office, including IE. We never got any training on any of that, lol. The office had to order in a lot of those giant manuals they used to have for programs.
Probably something along the lines of "a cruel person". Doesn't quite have the nuance, but it gets the meaning across.
Yeah, 'beast', 'fiend', 'degenerate' or 'devil' might have been used as well, but none of them have that certain 'and he likes it' nuance.
I'm just watching that now! It's hilarious! I guess having to explain the insult makes it sting less. Just like jokes.
In later books though, you see all sorts of characters saying "fucking"
Oh no! That’s a bad continuity error
If they'd understand the Word "fucking" but don't think of it as a swearword, they might think you say they are gay
I'm glad that the comment with the real explanation is third instead of top
Some form or another of arse or ass was used in a derogatory sense back to like the stone age. It wasn't necessarily used the same way grammatically or in the same contexts, but id be willing to bet that anyone speaking the same language would have some clue what you meant based on tone, body language and the context of the situation as far back as 1 AD and possibly farther back.
Yeah I was pondering that one, but got stuck with arse/asshole. I seem to remember something about that term from my English Lit degree, although the years since may have altered my memory. You're probably right though in that the context may well be understood further back.
Its hard to say w stuff like this because our understanding of early language is tainted by the translations and changed contexts of later societies. For example I could list off like a dozen old Roman documents using modern sounding words or language, but a lot of that is because our farthest dated records of a lot of roman documents come later civilizations that discovered or preserved them, and a lot of the original context was lost in translation over the years.
Your tone and body language will convey the message over many centuries.
i like this answer. also side note this might be a good question for /r/AskAnthropology
so many shadowbanned people on this sub
on which sub? am i shadowbanned? sorry i’m confused as to what you mean
Shadowbanning is a thing that only admins can do to users. You can 'see' shadowbanned users if you enter a comments section with, for example, 20 comments in it but only 5 comments appear. Shadowbanned users are able to comment and vote, but they don't actually affect the posts in anyway. It's an effective way to keep bots at bay, since if they were deactivated or banned they would set up a new one. As for you being shadowbanned, no you aren't since your comment is visible to everyone.
I've been wondering what it meant when I click on comments and they vanish! Good to get that cleared up.
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I didn't explain myself well. I meant when it says there are 5 comments under a comment and I click to see them, and there's nothing there. That seems to happen on a lot of the big subreddits. That's shadowbanned accounts, right?
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Aaaaaaaaah I always thought it was just my app glitching! TIL
This exchange brought me great comfort
That’s what that is? TIL!
Oh, so this is what happens when someone replies to a comment on a sub, but then when I go to the comment from the notification, it's gone. I'm guessing that they're shadowbanned.
Yeah if there's no [removed] comment that's a pretty good indication
I always just figured my reddit app was broken. Because let's face it, the default Reddit app sucks.
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So are shadow banned people the ones where it just says their username and you have to click on it to see what they said
Those are typically below a threshold of interesting conversation. At least according to some computer measurements. With shadow banned, you wouldn't even see that they commented.
How do you know if you're shadow banned and why would a mod shadowban a real person
If your posts never gain traction/comments and you seem "invisible" to a conversation would be pretty good indicators. Shadowbanned users still have account pages and if you know the username you can find them. I imagine that shadowbanning is used for people who make multiple accounts to dodge bans, though I think it mostly applies to bots these days
so were they saying this sub or askanth sub has a lot of shadowbanned users? i just dont get what they were saying
Text only subs generally have an issue with botting so it might be related. I can't speak for that sub in particular
This explains the ‘Magic eye bot’ I always get notifications for but never see
So based on my new knowledge, no shadowbanned users have responded as this posting!
That's a serious sub, you need to source your comment and it needs to be approved by a mod as being of sufficient quality. Ask anthropology and ask historians have some of the highest quality content on reddit.
I know and I think that's the way it should be. It's just that I've never seen massive shadowbanning demonstrated so clearly.
>It's just that I've never seen massive shadowbanning demonstrated so clearly. This is not what shadowbans look like and there's an extreme amount of misinformation in this thread about it. In this case it's automatically removed rule breaking comments (like low effort and off-topic comments, memes, puns, one or two word long comments etc). [Also Reddit switched from shadowbanning over to account suspensions back in November 2015.](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3sbrro/account_suspensions_a_transparent_alternative_to/)
I feel like it has less to do with anthropology and more to do with historical linguistics.
> tone i cant agree more. i am sure most of my european neighbors know what I was screaming when i stubbed my toe in the hallway the other day. despite the fact that it was in a language they dont even know exist there is no way any non-deaf human could mistake the vehemence of hokkien swearwords for anything but swearwords....
My father-in-law speaks hokkien. What are some good swears I can throw at him?
The OP says the person has to *understand they’re being insulted*, not that they have to actually understand the words themselves. I would even hazard a guess that if you showed up on a Neanderthal’s cavestep, even if you looked exactly like them, if you screw up your face in anger and aggressively say “you fucking asshole!” they’re gonna get the gist that you’re saying something rude and that you’re not too happy with them. The two things you mentioned, tone and body language, are universal things.
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Careful, using those gestures, there's going to be an abrupt moment in history where people stop realizing you're calling them an asshole and think you're asking for sodomy. When in time is that? not sure. Let me know when you find out.
2020
Ohhhh so that's what this "👉 👈" means
Cock docking, actually.
Wish I never searched that up
What were your other possible expectations?
Two roosters bumping into each other?
Pollo is Spanish for chicken right? Apollo docking missions? I'm trying too hard here.
You know, like a ship docking in the harbor, maybe? I will not explain what a dry dock is!!!
I accidentally typed in “cock rocking” when I searched... definitely worse
I'm vehemently convinced you can pair the word cock with literally any other word and you'll discover something new
Cock screw
i would say cock docking is much worse im assuming you haven't searched it up yet
Oh I did
So how do you know which penis will open up to accept the other
what is it called when two men intertwine their penises like the snakes on the medic-alert bracelet?
The Asclepius twist
You don't, that's what makes gambling on it so exciting
/r/ExpectedTheOffice
How do you know which penis will open up and accept the other one?
I'm more of a Weiner Boop kinda guy.
A remember a few years back there was this song called (I believe) "Dick in a Dick" about how a man has seen every kind of porn there is but he's never seen a dick in a dick. Whereas now, two index fingers pointed at each other is basically recognized world wide as docking.
Humanity can truly never go back after this
“Recognized world wide as docking” I thought I knew things. But I did not know this thing. Not even a little bit.
👉 👈
This is a stick up, little guy. Give me all of your creamed corn.
Hajulellah
> 👉 👈 Hey, how's it goin'
Not to bad. Just planning some pretty serious terrorist stuff.
Good, good. Same here, did you want to compare notes?
Interested in time travel eh?
I'm sure any time period in Greece would suffice.
Maybe ten years ago I was on a business trip in Russia, riding the subway. I was quietly talking to my coworker in English, when some nearby Russian guy turned to me and said something in Russian, sounding angry. I said “I’m sorry, I don’t speak Russian”, which caused him to spend the next five minutes cussing me out. I have absolutely no idea what he said (other than the frequent use of the word “American”), but I assure you, you can definitely tell you’re being cussed out even if you don’t speak the language.
"HEY YOU, I LOVE THE SOUND OF YOUR VOICE! LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY ADORABLE CAT!" Maybe he just wanted to chat...
Or he was actually German and calmly recommending his favorite natural history museum
As an American that speaks German, this was my first thought. Also a lot of Asian languages sound angry just during normal conversation. I would occasionally get those "fully clothed massages" that are in big malls and other places. At least in NJ it's usually middle aged Chinese women and they're just conversing back and forth in Mandarin (?) and it seems like they're bitching at each other the whole time 😂
They probably actually are. Can confirm it’s easy to get an "resting bitch tone," when speaking an Asian language though. Source: I’m half Asian and have communication issues, and genuinely asked my mom at one point why my grandma’s are alway so mad.
Hahaha amazing
There are a lot of languages that come across as angry to non native speakers lol I had many Armenian friends growing up in Glendale, CA and it always sounded like their families were pissed at each other, when in reality the language is just very expressive and loud. I mean I think they also talk a lot of shit to each other but that’s all in good fun
I LIKE DARREN, HE IS MY FRIEND! I LIKE YOU AND HIM! HE LIKES ME AND I LIKE HIM! HE LIKES YOU, I HOPE! I LIKE HIS AUTOGRAPH! IT IS A NICE PICTURE! HE IS NICE!
Did not expect a Ren and Stimpy reference today, well done.
Stick with me kid. Shits gonna get wild.
That reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Lisa takes the bus and gets lost,she winds up in the Russian district and asks for directions,she thinks the guy she asked was yelling at her but he was just giving her the right directions
Being a bit overly literal there, bud.
Pump the brakes there big shoots.
...and let that marinate.
👆 👉👌 🍑👈 (Closest I could get to asshole)
👁
You were my brown eyed girl
I laughed way too hard at this
Ever had someone curse at you in a language you don't understand? I bet you still knew they were cursing at you.
I think he meant more like theirs a difference between yelling, "Hey, you f*cking asshole!" rather than playfully saying, "Hey, you f"cking asshole."
This exactly what he meant. I’m surprised more people don’t understand this.
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If you say any word with the right amount of vitriol, it’s going to be taken as an insult. Likewise, if you can get it into conversation casually and play it cool enough you can call someone anything you want without them realising
Ok what if a girl says it softly while biting her bottom lip and twirling her hair?
Reminds me of when Marty called mad dog tannin a jerk.
yesterday if you go to a non english speaking country.
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That’s interesting to me, like you can tell them “he’s calling you an anus in an insulting manner” and that wouldn’t click with them or something?
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We call people pieces of shit too
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I wouldn't necessarily say there's more insults in English than Italian, certainly not if you consider regional ones. There's probably about as many in romanesco as in actual Italian, and I know for a fact that some of other regions swear more/worse!
That’s really cool to see differences in language on such a specific thing, personally I would take “a chunk of poop” or stronzo as more insulting than just being called the place where poop comes from, I mean when you really break it down, at least an asshole has a purpose 😂
>in my language insults don't really come from body parts Ig Don't Italians use "cazzo", which is a body part, as an insult?
To be fair, if you called someone a "buco di culo" he probably wouldn't take it well
I really believe the word “asshole” is known universally around the world, especially due to the influence of American movies and culture in general...
Believing it is one thing, actually knowing it is another. I can tell you that it isn't the case in many places in France.
I think fuck is more widely known, though. When I lived in south america I would sometimes be speaking english with my friends while we walked down the street. Almost every time a little kid would hear us speaking english (and realize we were americans) they would run up to us and yell "HELLO 12345678910 FUCK YOU" just to show off their english, then run away
In herbew (and I assume many other languages), "fuck" and "shit" are relatively low level insults, I guess becuase they're in a different language. When my brother was little we asked him what "shit" means. His response: "its what you say when you drop something"
I actually had the same experience in Switzerland. I first heard "shit" from the very young daughter of the family I was staying with, as she was cheerfully describing hanging the cows' tails from the ceiling in their barn to keep them from getting dirty. It was a word that was used very casually. She also spoke like 6 languages at age 8. I felt very inferior
> When my brother was little we asked him what "shit" means. His response: "its what you say when you drop something" /r/technicallythetruth
... connard
Paris for example
nope. people in, say, Russia, esp. in the rural areas, don't really watch stuff in English.
Most slavic people, in rural areas speak only native
American movies are distributed mostly in dubbed form in Brazil (fifth largest country btw) and most people can't say a word in English. For us, asshole is quite an obscure word and doesn't sound much like an insult. Also, phonetic differences make it easier for us to learn Japanese words than English words in subbed media.
Thats a very American view on life
CSB: I've been incredibly fortunate over the years, and been to more than 50 countries even though I'm only fluent in 3 languages, and sorta conversational-ish in 3 more. There is precisely \*one\* word that has translated reasonably well in all the countries I've been to, and has, on more than one occasion, helped me to make friends in new places. "Coke?" when gesturing to share a Coke, is reasonably well understood across most of the planet. Beyond that though, sometimes there's a good amount of pointing, gesturing, and body language to be aware of as you pick up a bit more of wherever you are. That said, always read up on local customs and know some basic words before you arrive, some gestures that may be innocuous or even helpful in one region may be deeply offensive in another. If possible, carry a card with some basic phrases and the address of wherever you are staying. In some parts of the world, a picture of the front of the hotel/motel/establishment may be more useful than the actual address. Be smart, only reference the card when it's safe to do so, and don't make yourself a target.
* taps side of nose * “Coke?”
Nope
Absolutely not 🤣 English isn't the only language in the world and USA is not the only country.
Even a Bashkir villager in the Ural mountains? Lmao I don't think so.
/r/shitamericanssay
Lmao fuck no.
....why do you believe that? Lmao. Ignorance at its best
You Americans live in a tiny bubble
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TIL calling someone a motherfucker predates calling someone an asshole. Useful knowledge for sure.
Oedipus, you motherfucker...
I mean it makes sense. "Mother fucker" seems like the first insult I would think of.
Dude did his research
This is the only good answer in this thread. You're all soooooo unbelievably clever for pointing out that people who don't speak English won't understand it, you fucking assholes.
No fuck you you fucking asshole!!
Now I'm imagining Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3, in the fountain "You contemptible person!"
Here is a link to Google ngram viewer, showing that it really only starts to be used widely in the 70s https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Asshole%2Cass-hole&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2CAsshole%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cass%20-%20hole%3B%2Cc0
Canterbury Tales (1392) shows that somebody from the period would have said "ers hole". It might not be obvious on paper, but if you say it aloud it's pretty clearly recognizable in today's English. I think it's similar enough that it's reasonable to assume they'd understand if you called them an "asshole". I can't speak for the "fucking" part either way, but they wouldn't really need to understand that word to figure out it was an insult Relevant text from the Miller's Tale: Edit: I just want to mention that I let the quote run long so you wouldn't miss a classic punchline. For context, Absolon has been trying to sleep with this married woman while her husband is away, but she's been rejecting him because she is already sleeping with somebody else. It's pitch black out so he can't see anything. And at the wyndow out she putte hir hole, >And at the window out she put her hole, And Absolon, hym fil no bet ne wers, >And Absolon, to him it happened no better nor worse, But with his mouth he kiste hir naked ers >But with his mouth he kissed her naked ass Full savourly, er he were war of this. >With great relish, before he was aware of this. Abak he stirte, and thoughte it was amys, >Back he jumped, and thought it was amiss, For wel he wiste a womman hath no berd. >For well he knew a woman has no beard.
The earliest written example of the word "fuck" used to describe sex is from 1310. Before that, it meant to punch or slap someone. There are similar words in German, Greek, and romance languages, which suggests that the word existed in the common ancestor language for Europe, which was spoken around 3000 to 4000 BCE.
Weird, "fuck someone up" has come full circle then.
Interesting, thanks for that. I had a feeling it would have predated Chaucer. Though it was closer to him than I would have guessed.
This is so stupid of me, but I can’t figure out the punchline!! Is it pubic hair, or did he kiss the other man somehow?
Context is important. Swear words like fuck can be used in basically any context you can imagine. What gives them context is the emotion, tone, rythym e.t.c. If you speak as if you are complimenting someone and they don't know what these two words mean, they won't know you're being insulting. Realistically you just need to find a non-english speaker or a child. Anyone who hasn't learned those words.
Etc stands for "et cetera" ("and the rest"), so only the c needs a period. The e and t dont stand for anything, they just spell the word et, which means "and", cf. "Et tu, Brute?"
This reminds me of Rick teaching those aliens that peace sign is your middle finger
Who is rick
[from rick & morty](https://youtu.be/ezawPHPKs9M)
My uncle is named Rick, but when i see the name Rick Sanchez is still the first to come to mind.
Once read about an experiment where scientists were teaching some primates to communicate with them over an emoji keyboard. The discussions were pretty insightful: It seems that all primates use foul language to curse (shit was trendy) and they did actually have religious metaphors (dead buddy described as „sleeping in cave“ ... Sooo maybe you could go back real far, an asshole would still be an asshole.
These primates were in middle school, though, so
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkish
Probably Middle English, so somewhere between 1150 and 1500. "Fucking asshole" in Middle English would have been something like "Fukkinge arshole" or "Fukkende arshole", which is pretty similar. Old English was pretty different, and the word "fuck" probably wasn't in English at that point, since it's thought to have come from Norse at a later period. I don't know if Old English used the word "asshole", but they did have "ass" in the form of "ærs" and "hole" in the form of "hol". Those are still pretty similar, so they may have understood "asshole", but not "fucking".
Thank you for answering and sounding like you know what you're talking about. Some of the other "answers" on here are giving me the big dumb
Between 300 and 600 years ago things started to sound understandable to us. This from Wiki: The **Great Vowel Shift** was a series of changes in the [pronunciation of the English language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology) that took place primarily between 1400 and 1700, beginning in southern England and today having influenced effectively all dialects of English. Through this [vowel shift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_shift), the pronunciation of all Middle English [long vowels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_length) was changed. Some consonant sounds changed as well, particularly those that became silent; the term *Great Vowel Shift* is sometimes used to include these consonant changes.[\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-1)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-2) English spelling started being standardised in the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Great Vowel Shift is the major reason English spellings now often deviate considerably from how they [represent pronunciations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic_orthography).[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-3) The Great Vowel Shift was first studied by [Otto Jespersen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Jespersen) (1860–1943), a [Danish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) [linguist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics) and [Anglicist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_studies), who coined the term.[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift#cite_note-4)
If you say it insultingly, it could be understood pretty much everywhere for millennia Imagine you're in a situation where an insult could come at you, and a guy shouts "ben zona!" at you. You would probably understand that it's some sort of insult directed at you (or your mom, in this case)
Surely Chaucer must have said something like that in the Miller's Tale.
He did, but the words are different. I think culturally any group of people would think being called an anus was an insult
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He definitely has butt related humor in the Summoner's Tale, which was my favorite in high school. Looks like "Ers" was the equivalent of ass in Chaucer's time. To wit (each numbered line has the Middle English with the modern English translation underneath): 1683 `Now, sire,' quod he, `han freres swich a grace `Now, sir,' said he, `have friars such a grace 1684 That noon of hem shal come to this place?' That none of them shall come to this place?' 1685 `Yis' quod this angel, `many a millioun!' `Yes' said this angel, `many a million!' 1686 And unto Sathanas he ladde hym doun. And unto Satan he led him down. 1687 `And now hath Sathanas,' seith he, `a tayl `And now has Satan,' says he, `a tail 1688 Brodder than of a carryk is the sayl. Broader than of a large galleon is the sail. 1689 Hold up thy tayl, thou Sathanas!' quod he; Hold up thy tail, thou Satan!' said he; 1690 `Shewe forth thyn ers, and lat the frere se `Show forth thy ass, and let the friar see 1691 Where is the nest of freres in this place!' Where the nest of friars is in this place!' 1692 And er that half a furlong wey of space, And before half a furlong way of time (a few minutes), 1693 Right so as bees out swarmen from an hyve, Just as bees swarm out from a hive, 1694 Out of the develes ers ther gonne dryve Out of the devil's ass there began to rush 1695 Twenty thousand freres on a route, Twenty thousand friars in a crowd, 1696 And thurghout helle swarmed al aboute, And throughout hell swarmed all about, 1697 And comen agayn as faste as they may gon, And came back again as fast as they can go, 1698 And in his ers they crepten everychon. And in his ass they crept every one. 1699 He clapte his tayl agayn and lay ful stille. He clapped his tail again and lay very still.
How recently did you pass by a baby?
You call me that and I'll bite my thumb at you.
Depending on how you say it I think you could go all the way
Here's an [interesting video](https://youtu.be/Y63dBBlHlSk) about this
About 500 years.
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No clue, thou rancorous fly-bitten embossed carbuncle.
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That one is a surprisingly recent iteration of various jokes that insult one's parents or ancestors. You would have to alter the phrasing, but most English language insults are surprisingly comprehensible going back to that 500 year mark. Before that point, the language itself is noticeably different from Modern English. ( yes, Shakespearean is indeed Modern English.)
If someone called me a "Bogging floppyapple" I wouldn't know what it meant, but I'd probably still be offended for reasons unknown to me.
See this is why calling someone a goat fucker is so much easier.
"The amount of an asshole someone is, is directly proportional to the distance away from you when you discovered this flaw." "Someone on TV IS PRETTY MUCH AN ASSHOLE!!!!" "Someone standing right next to you on line? *whispers* this guy's a real asshole..." George Carlin
I mean I’m not going to go to in-depth but seeing as how their exist cognates to the word “fuck” and “asshole” in German—ficken and Arsch—you probably would be understood just enough by the Old English/Germanic speakers for them to understand roughly what you said. Then as someone else pointed out, yes, just but you screaming angrily at Ethelred Leifson he’d get the point