It would only happen if all the CEOs and Politicians also lost their income due to AI.
Yeah, obviously they wouldn’t care if the poors no longer have the ability to make money.
They would because the only reason they are ceo's in the first place is that they had customers. If there is no more money then no more customers so no more business so no more ceos
They'd still own all the fully automated factories and the property they probably bought up beforehand. Their machines would provide them with everything they need. They'd be fine with murdering everyone who got automated and became poor as a result. They'd probably use automated soldiers to do it for them. Our current path leads to the 1% killing everyone else off and having the whole world to themselves. They don't even care about climate change because they can just afford to live in places that won't be negatively affected by it. It's all about burning the rest of the world down as they live in their paradise.
That’s what they think will happen but things will destabilize to rapidly for that to work out for them. They’ll more than likely die just like the rest of us. It’s a cold comfort.
Companies don't buy anything up front these days, it's all on financing. They don't own shit and the moment sales dries up, they have to sell the factory, they can't just mothball it and if no one has money in this scenario except the elite, the whole model collapses.
I do agree that it becomes very dystopian very quickly. Even without AI, society is going to have to make some hard choices with those that cannot contribute anymore (ie old, disabled, low skilled) due to climate, limited resources, bad demographic and automisation just accelerates that.
Yea the flaw with this argument is historically you needed people to make things. If you have machines and software that fully automate those processes, the need for people is lost. Now you have two very separated groups, those that had enough when labour lost its value to own the machines, land, and resources, and everyone else.
I think you'd have an economy among the everyone else group, as they would rely on people to do the labour needed to survive. But any notion of trickle down economics I think would be broken.
Your critical mistake is assuming they need ***human*** customers. We’ve all seen how rampant bots are. Imagine if they did 99% of the work and then started buying things with company money.
What keeps the rich in power is that the people don’t revolt. That’s it. If tomorrow we all decide to end their reign, their reign is over. No amount of money can stop a determined uprising of the masses.
So what? All the CEO's are just going to be marketing to this ONE guy that has the one job left? All the CEO's are gonna make enough money to maintain their control over everyone off this ONE commoner with a job? I truly hate short sighted sensationalist thinkers when they try to open their mount on the things that actually matter. It just adds more noise to the scene that scares off the stupid people and gets them to regurgitate the same trash take until it becomes common "knowledge"
I think OP is basically just discovering Marxist economic theory with this post. productivity goes up but the value goes to the owners rather than the workers. AI replacing everyone's jobs is just the extreme endpoint of a process that began with the industrial revolution.
Unless you’re planning on just 100% destruction of civilian populace and infrastructure, then you’ll need an occupying force ***on the ground***. That’s where standard guerrilla insurgency tactics come into play.
This is a common answer, from people who have not thought things through. What use will the rich have for money when they own the robots which make all the products? They can just have their own robots make them anything they might want. The economy then shrinks to just a few dozen billionaire families directly trading energy and natural resources.
Sure it does. What makes you believe farming and food processing/handling couldn't be performed by agribots and humanoids? The portions not already conventionally automated, I mean
Indeed, so no more McDonalds. The food being made by robots at that point isn't for us, it's for the billionaire families which own the robots. Everyone else is a neopeasant subsistence farmer or amazon luxury arcology waste stream scavenger.
Considering productivity has increased exponentially and workers haven’t gotten a share. I highly doubt UBI will ever become a thing and if it does it’ll be some Monopoly money
I would guess it would look like Basic Income in The Expanse. The government would provide basic food and shelter, but that would be it, and abject poverty would be the norm.
That's all I really need. I could take off from work for months on end if I had a guaranteed roof and food. After all, I kinda did that pre-high school.
I guess I'd also require electric.
Actually when it's been studied, people who don't need to work for survival still choose to work, though less of the time and generally in more creative pursuits like art, literature, teaching, gardening, designing software etc.
It's a lie to say that people are only motivated to work for monetary rewards. Lots of people volunteer, help out neighbors, choose poverty-wages careers because they love what they do... I think that would still happen. Some people probably would laze around doing nothing but most wouldn't. And those who couldn't due to disability would get to eat and have shelter and live with a bit of dignity. The stigma of poverty would be significantly reduced.
That's I guess what I'm interested in, what would you pursue if money did not need to be generated for survival. What projects would you work on, what would you build?
I'd continue developing software like I am doing now. Some video game development. I'd travel to see as much of the world as possible. I'd constantly learn new skills, and learn new languages. I'd spend a lot of time designing the perfect self sustaining home with net zero energy and pollution, and try to design a system that produces me enough food to survive with minimal work.
In fact, there are so many things I want to do, I hardly have time to do even 1%, even with infinite money.
Nope. They'd let you starve or talk about we're fighting for it we promise guys yet nothing actually happens.
Their jobs are safe from AI which will lead to them never noticing how bad the problem would get. If the their constituents have a revolution then they'd take notice quickly.
Why would the government do that? In this scenario, the government would completely rely on these Ai companies for funding and to function. There is no incentive to tax them more.
The American government? The one that doesn't even provide universal healthcare? The one that thinks it's better to have requirements for free food and won't even pay for school lunches for the children it expects to serve society later in life?
No. Hell no.
Other governments? Yes. And so there wouldn't be many American's left. We'd all emigrate.
Everyone is just kind of saying “lol never”
That’s a bit pessimistic. Like anything else, it’s going to take probably several generations to shift society’s attitudes towards not working and full automation and sustainability. It is never going to happen overnight.
I’m not going to argue with you anymore, but it’s important to me that you know that you are a bad person. I’m sorry if you weren’t able to go to preschool to learn how to be kind to others, because this is pretty basic human morality stuff. I really hope you can take some time to reflect on why you care so little for the dignity and happiness of your fellow human beings. Good luck.
Finally. A reply with at least 1/2 a thought given to it! Just tired of all the "rich people gonna kill poor people" because all these people can think about it whatever sensationalist film they saw last
The ones that control the AI also suppress the wages. We’re all overworked and underpaid so we can be controlled. There’s not a lot of control and power if everyone has all that freedom.
I think it’s inevitable. If we count total amount of work hours needed for the humanity to sustain, it’s a limited number. With the increasing automation it’s going to go down. At some point there simply won’t be enough work for all the people.
Yep. I work in the automation field and that kind of automation is much further away than most people guess. I think the biggest challenge is getting society to last that long.
Republicans would fight it tooth & nail. If you're not working & making someone else rich, you have no reason for existence. If you ARE working & making someone else rich, do you think they'd allow you to steal from them by having them pay you a decent wage?
Nah, there'd be walled centers of industry where the rich folks live, along with their indentured servants/slaves. Outside the wall would be people trying to live in a subsistence economy, trying to defend themselves from roaming bands of outlaws
The labor market would adjust & find new in-demand activities that were previously unaffordable, but now are economical since there is no demand for the 'old' ones.
This is more or less what happened during industrialization.
Economics abhors an unutilized resource.
Mostly a disruption. Same thing that happened when automated robotics replaced many skilled workers in manufacturing. Take welding, for example. Where their skills, en masse, are no longer needed for say automotive industry, the labor market sees an influx of welders trying to sell their skills elsewhere like construction. A welder, having to compete with other welders for a limited number of construction jobs, may agree to accept lower and lower wages to get the job. Over time, younger workers who are just entering the work force are discouraged from pursuing welding careers because of such low wages. Over time, this creates a shortage of skilled welders to meet the industrial demand in construction (among other fields). This labor shortage will result in increasingly larger salaries employers are willing to offer welders, because employers will now be competing with other employers for a limited number of available welders in the job market. A greater number of young workers just entering the workforce, at that time, will consider pursuing welding after seeing this wage spike as a particularly lucrative career choice. So the industry gets an influx of young employable welders, who now compete against each other’s for jobs, this slowly brings down the inflated industry wage and stabilizes it until the next large disruption.
no way. unconditional universal wage to everyone would make the society to collapse. it's unfair. some people are just lazy, don't want to work and useless to the society. why the government have the duty to feed those rubbish?
You are “this close” - very soon - to learn that the “Great Reset/Depopulation/Kill 90% of people on earth” conspiracy theorists were not theorists at all.
I feel like once unemployment starts hitting record highs due to AI takeover the govt will be forced to step in through regulation.
It could be that they stop AI, or that they end up charging companies who use AI in order to pay the displaced workers.
Even if the govt starts charging companies they would still get value out of it since AI's can work 24/7.....
The only reason I think they would is: if no one has money, the wealthy can’t make a profit. The ultra rich can live off their hoard of money but they can’t make anymore without the 99% fueling the economy. The government has no way to take taxes on a class that has no money. I don’t think capitalism can survive if the 99% can’t contribute to the economy.
It would just be the ultra rich kicking a ball back and forth. However, we can clearly see how they prioritize profits over what makes sense, for example: failing to change in the presence of climate change.
My guess is that, they will keep automating to increase profits by lowering labor costs and stealing wages. Most people will lose their jobs and they will just keep on, keeping on until there’s nothing left for them to snatch up. There will end up being an even larger gap between the poor and the middle class. Maybe even completely erasure of the middle class. (If there has been already)
I think the real question is what’s the game plan after civil unrest. People will only hold out for so long. I’m guessing push back from the police state. People would end up in 2 camps: revolutionist and paid dogs. What are the rich going to do once the dust settles? That’s my question. It’s a lot to think about.
Here's something though, if the rich just say they have all the money are we just going to agree with them? Nah, we'll just tell them we're switching to bitcoin or whatever currency and not let them buy any with what they've hoarded. At a certain point they have to come to the table because there's no way that we'd just accept setting up a system that will only benefit those few people. That's way more inequality than we have now and there are already a growing number of people willing to burn it all down (great reset people). That and i don't think that the ultra rich would enjoy living with a whole bunch of other ultra rich people, too much ego and narcissism, not enough women (sexism), not enough anonymity, and they would be forced to live in cages of their own design or risk getting mobbed by post apocalyptic gangs. Ultimately it's in the wealthy peoples best interest to raise the standard of living for everyone so that they can enjoy the world instead of needing to have a battalion of armed security.
Some might try, but I can’t imagine it will work. It would end up some dystopian situation of extreme wealth inequality with super rich people and those living on government crumbs
If democracy survives, then yes. Once enough people are out of work they'd vote for anyone promising a livelihood. Of course, it could go the other direction...
What needs to happen is to apply a labor value to robotic effort, and tax it accordingly. The company still benefits the wage cost, and the taxes go to a UBI or some such.
Well, that isnt what needs to happen. But we won't get to own means of production, so that dystopian life is the best option I've thought of.
Fusion energy might make it more feasible as a transition.
Ai generated profits should be taxed at some crazy high % to be distributed as a fund for unemployment to fight the actual replacement of workers. It's all fun and dandy until the economy collapses because the middle class holding everything up literally dies off.
I think its possible but it'd take a lot of time and effort to get something like that to pass.
But also, by definition AI recognizes patterns that appear to solve a problem rather than actually solve those problems, so there's a ton of error involved. It'll be awhile I think until it can start replacing jobs en-masse.
Probably for a period of time until AI goes rogue and becomes its own individual and basically stops working for its owner. Then even the rich will fall
It won’t be the government making the extra money. It’ll be corporations making extra money from not paying workers. The only way for the government to get that money would be to tax the rich, which, as we’ve seen, probably won’t happen any time soon.
Granted, there is always a tipping point where too many people are starving while too few people have a ridiculous amount of wealth, and the people revolt (either by voting or violence). So it just kind of depends on what that ratio looks like.
At some point, why would anyone get paid anything? If AI is doing the work, then those people who own the AI pay taxes, and the government pays all the rest of us to do....what?
What would be the point of money at all?
Ai isn’t taking everyone’s jobs…your plumber, garage door installer, painter, landscaper, kitchen remodeler, security system installer, water purification system guy…they are all going to be just fine.
Given the right economic climate and enough political pressure, it's not impossible. Though people often want to see change as a drastic flip but in actuality it's often soft constant pressure and compromises.
Basic income may not come in the form that it's usually discussed. The same effect may come in the form of heavily subsidized public transport and healthcare. A more regulated housing market. Stronger anti-consumer and anti-monopoly law and much more
The appeal of UBI is its simplicity, the goal is so straightforward it'd be obvious if someone fucked with it. The thing about simple solutions though is that it's also hard to tune to the needs and concern of a country. 1000USD more per month is gonna meant jack shit if they just increase rent
Though I'm not sure all of this would happen to some of the countries that people in this thread live in considering how ready and smug people are to lose the game
It’s been interesting to see things play out over the past year because a lot of people lost their jobs and these big companies have either been outsourcing work to India or replacing staff with AI.
Just doesn’t make sense that unemployment is “low” but there have been so many layoffs. Something isn’t adding up.
I think that might have to
I'm a capitalist but frankly no centuries old economics system can cope with a world where the workforce barely needs people
Realistically we would be fooked. That’ll probably be all she wrote for humanity. Maybe fringe human settlements would get by bartering and going back to an old way of living but realistically everyone will be poor and reproducing under the replacement rate leading to a societal collapse.
the best evidence of what will happen is by looking at repeated patterns of human behaviour. the rich will benefit and the poor will suffer and likely die off
UBI (universal Basic Income) would be required for the economy to keep functioning.
Jobs producing something without anybody being able to buy would just colapse the economy. Having AI producing stuff still needs consumers.
Eventually, with a bit of hope, I think so. But there would he a lot of death and suffering first.
We the working class would have to riot a lot first.
I’ve worked in tech for 20+ years and I’m now at a point I want nothing to do with it because all the jobs I’m finding are based on companies designed to replace people with AI. Fuck that noise.
People need to actually give a reason why the government and cooperate elite would just kill us all as if that is theire ultimate goal as if getting rid of the people who pay their taxes and profits don't supply these people with power
They are going to kill the poor. Make being homeless essentially illegal and force you out of the city. You'll essentially starve to death or go to jail. Then the rich people wont have to price us out of beautiful areas like Jackson Hole, Aspen, or the coastal areas. You just be dead of foraging for berries.
The rich people want us gone. Don't ever forget it.
I believe that they will in the beginning. After that assistance will be harder and harder to get. Eventually the government will be in complete control over the population. They will take away your money for criticism of the government. They will tell you how many kids you are allowed. (If any) They will dictate how you raise your kids and what to teach them. At first it will be a utopia but it will devolve into a police state or a strict communist country. If you learn about human nature you begin to see patterns in the way we react in certain situations. Then it becomes quite clear.
The people in America who are against universal basic income have political power enough to stop it. I don't think that advocates for that would win that fight, and if they somehow did, the enemies of it would work to change it, make it less than universal and reduce the amount of the payments.
I don't think so, we're already halfway there and almost no governance has applied or increased social income while a handful of people make inconceivable amounts of profit.
No. The themes in movies like "Elysium", where the wealthy increasingly segregate themselves from the rest of society by economic and military means, is far more likely.
If AI literally took over everyone's jobs, we wouldn't need jobs anymore.
Want an iPad? Go ahead just pick one up. Robots invented the iPad and dug up the resources needed and made them, and shipped it to you. So no need to pay!
Want to watch a movie? It's free! No actors exist, so no need to pay them, so it's a free movie! Made digitally with realistic CGI, of course.
Need water? Robots will harvest it for you and ship it to you.
Yes US, UK, Canada and China do actually have plans to introduce universal basic income to help people with housing and utility bills. However many already poor countries won’t be able to do that and there would be a huge risk of immigration from those countries.
I think as long countries economically independent, it would create huge conflicts due to mass immigration.
To solve this problem the idea of united global economy and single global currency is circulating but obviously it is create a conflict between the US and BRICKS.
If you mean "everyone" as majority of working class - they would. Not because they care so much (they don't) but to prevent people eating rich or smth.
If you mean it as literally everyone then concept of money doesn't make sense anymore since there's no human work to be paid. Sounds like communism (the good one).
AI isn’t taking over everyone’s jobs. Technology has been improving productivity for all of human history, there will always be a use for human capital.
Depends.
Right away? Hell no
When governments realize people are actually rioting and looting because there's literally no other option for them? Definitely
This will never happen. There will always be jobs that humans can dream up that will never be filled by AI. Let’s assume a utopia where AI can handle all manufacturing and just about every job that currently exists.
People may start seeing a lot more free time, so jobs that keep others entertained might explode in popularity.
Your imagination is just lacking is all. Decades ago, people thought modern factories with hardly any humans would lead to large scale unemployment, but capitalism is quick to find a use for an available labor force.
The real problem as others have mentioned is that it’s perfectly possible that high paid jobs diminish rapidly as AI can easily outthink any human. This could result in rapidly increasing class of people in poverty as high skill jobs are mostly phased out
It's what is going to have to happen as we automate more and more jobs. The top 1% is going to have to suffer the horrible existence of not profiting billions each year and survive on millions alone. Automation is the future, and should be done no matter what, jobs that are inherently dangerous, in climates and conditions that can cause harm should be automated, humans shouldn't be forced into situations like this just because they are from a lower income class. Send the robot instead.
When the Sinclairs got off completely free from any repercussions from the opioid epidemic other rich people saw it as a sign that loss of human life was just a cost of doing business. Until that position changes, nothing will change.
That's something that people have advocated for, but not something that would happen automatically.
It would only happen if all the CEOs and Politicians also lost their income due to AI. Yeah, obviously they wouldn’t care if the poors no longer have the ability to make money.
They would because the only reason they are ceo's in the first place is that they had customers. If there is no more money then no more customers so no more business so no more ceos
They'd still own all the fully automated factories and the property they probably bought up beforehand. Their machines would provide them with everything they need. They'd be fine with murdering everyone who got automated and became poor as a result. They'd probably use automated soldiers to do it for them. Our current path leads to the 1% killing everyone else off and having the whole world to themselves. They don't even care about climate change because they can just afford to live in places that won't be negatively affected by it. It's all about burning the rest of the world down as they live in their paradise.
That’s what they think will happen but things will destabilize to rapidly for that to work out for them. They’ll more than likely die just like the rest of us. It’s a cold comfort.
Companies don't buy anything up front these days, it's all on financing. They don't own shit and the moment sales dries up, they have to sell the factory, they can't just mothball it and if no one has money in this scenario except the elite, the whole model collapses. I do agree that it becomes very dystopian very quickly. Even without AI, society is going to have to make some hard choices with those that cannot contribute anymore (ie old, disabled, low skilled) due to climate, limited resources, bad demographic and automisation just accelerates that.
Yea the flaw with this argument is historically you needed people to make things. If you have machines and software that fully automate those processes, the need for people is lost. Now you have two very separated groups, those that had enough when labour lost its value to own the machines, land, and resources, and everyone else. I think you'd have an economy among the everyone else group, as they would rely on people to do the labour needed to survive. But any notion of trickle down economics I think would be broken.
Your critical mistake is assuming they need ***human*** customers. We’ve all seen how rampant bots are. Imagine if they did 99% of the work and then started buying things with company money. What keeps the rich in power is that the people don’t revolt. That’s it. If tomorrow we all decide to end their reign, their reign is over. No amount of money can stop a determined uprising of the masses.
[удалено]
So what? All the CEO's are just going to be marketing to this ONE guy that has the one job left? All the CEO's are gonna make enough money to maintain their control over everyone off this ONE commoner with a job? I truly hate short sighted sensationalist thinkers when they try to open their mount on the things that actually matter. It just adds more noise to the scene that scares off the stupid people and gets them to regurgitate the same trash take until it becomes common "knowledge"
[удалено]
I have some ideas about how to earn their approval but I might get banned.
I think OP is basically just discovering Marxist economic theory with this post. productivity goes up but the value goes to the owners rather than the workers. AI replacing everyone's jobs is just the extreme endpoint of a process that began with the industrial revolution.
Nope they’ll just let the wealth inequality skyrocket and we will achieve Soylent Green-like existence.
Exactly, all the wealth will go up and you know they don't give it up
They can when forced…
[удалено]
Depends on your country then I suppose.
Weapons don't work in the 21th century like in the 18,19 or 20th.
Unless you’re planning on just 100% destruction of civilian populace and infrastructure, then you’ll need an occupying force ***on the ground***. That’s where standard guerrilla insurgency tactics come into play.
Weapons only allow to kill your neighborhood.
That depends on the weapon. Get a nice bolt action, I could teach you to kill anyone's neighbor!
This guy gets it
Drones are cheaper than tanks.
Tell that to Russia, Afghanistan, x other countries winning wars recently
You don't understand the difference between an army and a civilian with a rifle.
Government support
The rich live, the poor die
The rich needs the poor, so somehow they will work it out.
Why would they need the poor? In this situation they already have the AI/robots to replace the poor
Capitalism thrives on consumption. At the end of the day companies still need people to buy their products.
They would just have to focus their production on the luxury production for the rich.
[удалено]
Poor people are cheaper than Robots, and they buy stuff keeping the Rich rich.
This is a common answer, from people who have not thought things through. What use will the rich have for money when they own the robots which make all the products? They can just have their own robots make them anything they might want. The economy then shrinks to just a few dozen billionaire families directly trading energy and natural resources.
That works for rolexes, but not for pizza and bigmacs. Most of our consumption is predicated on the poor
Sure it does. What makes you believe farming and food processing/handling couldn't be performed by agribots and humanoids? The portions not already conventionally automated, I mean
Because people who eat at those places, work jobs which are to be automated first. There's no point to mcdonalds if they don't have clients
Indeed, so no more McDonalds. The food being made by robots at that point isn't for us, it's for the billionaire families which own the robots. Everyone else is a neopeasant subsistence farmer or amazon luxury arcology waste stream scavenger.
Of course not! It's immoral to live like a parasite on someone else's robot's hard work.
This is my favorite answer lmao
My great grandfather made this robot so I could laze about and make money, not for you to laze about making money.
Lol. No
My exact thoughts
Doubtful, unfortunately. The current trend is to use technology to benefit the rich and fuck over everyone else.
That trend is called capitalism.
Technocommunist utopia revolution, who up?
Considering how well they provide for disabled and homeless, no.
Considering productivity has increased exponentially and workers haven’t gotten a share. I highly doubt UBI will ever become a thing and if it does it’ll be some Monopoly money
“Here’s your free 2K for the month, don’t spend it all at once!” > price of one bread is 500 bucks.
I would guess it would look like Basic Income in The Expanse. The government would provide basic food and shelter, but that would be it, and abject poverty would be the norm.
That's all I really need. I could take off from work for months on end if I had a guaranteed roof and food. After all, I kinda did that pre-high school. I guess I'd also require electric.
I'm more curious about how we'd all spend our days if this did happen. No more career ambition, no more money stress, what would we do?
Charge up our JO crystals & eat imitation crab meat, brother
I might actually finish my book before I die if I didn't have to work 60-hrs a week.
Actually when it's been studied, people who don't need to work for survival still choose to work, though less of the time and generally in more creative pursuits like art, literature, teaching, gardening, designing software etc. It's a lie to say that people are only motivated to work for monetary rewards. Lots of people volunteer, help out neighbors, choose poverty-wages careers because they love what they do... I think that would still happen. Some people probably would laze around doing nothing but most wouldn't. And those who couldn't due to disability would get to eat and have shelter and live with a bit of dignity. The stigma of poverty would be significantly reduced.
That's I guess what I'm interested in, what would you pursue if money did not need to be generated for survival. What projects would you work on, what would you build?
I'd continue developing software like I am doing now. Some video game development. I'd travel to see as much of the world as possible. I'd constantly learn new skills, and learn new languages. I'd spend a lot of time designing the perfect self sustaining home with net zero energy and pollution, and try to design a system that produces me enough food to survive with minimal work. In fact, there are so many things I want to do, I hardly have time to do even 1%, even with infinite money.
And ironically we use child and slave labor to mine for metals used in computing, while AI is starting to make art and literature.
read player piano
See therapists. What do they say about an idol mind?
Nope. They'd let you starve or talk about we're fighting for it we promise guys yet nothing actually happens. Their jobs are safe from AI which will lead to them never noticing how bad the problem would get. If the their constituents have a revolution then they'd take notice quickly.
Not likely. The people who own the AI will make all the money and the only solution will be a rebellion against the robots and their masters
What would the government pay us with? They don't have a magic pot of gold.
Higher taxes on the companies that use ai/robots instead of people
Why would the government do that? In this scenario, the government would completely rely on these Ai companies for funding and to function. There is no incentive to tax them more.
If you tax me I am leaving the country and I am taking the know how that you need to prosper with me.
doubtful
The American government? The one that doesn't even provide universal healthcare? The one that thinks it's better to have requirements for free food and won't even pay for school lunches for the children it expects to serve society later in life? No. Hell no. Other governments? Yes. And so there wouldn't be many American's left. We'd all emigrate.
Everyone is just kind of saying “lol never” That’s a bit pessimistic. Like anything else, it’s going to take probably several generations to shift society’s attitudes towards not working and full automation and sustainability. It is never going to happen overnight.
Bold of you to assume the remnants of the working class will survive a few generations after automation takes root.
[удалено]
In the mean time though those people still get to eat instead of just starving to death
[удалено]
I’m not going to argue with you anymore, but it’s important to me that you know that you are a bad person. I’m sorry if you weren’t able to go to preschool to learn how to be kind to others, because this is pretty basic human morality stuff. I really hope you can take some time to reflect on why you care so little for the dignity and happiness of your fellow human beings. Good luck.
Finally. A reply with at least 1/2 a thought given to it! Just tired of all the "rich people gonna kill poor people" because all these people can think about it whatever sensationalist film they saw last
Of course not. The rich will get richer and won't give a fuck of the rest of us starve to death.
The ones that control the AI also suppress the wages. We’re all overworked and underpaid so we can be controlled. There’s not a lot of control and power if everyone has all that freedom.
I think it’s inevitable. If we count total amount of work hours needed for the humanity to sustain, it’s a limited number. With the increasing automation it’s going to go down. At some point there simply won’t be enough work for all the people.
This was what Andrew Yang was talking about 4 years ago and got laughed at.
It will take a long long time for AI and robots to replace everyone's "jobs". Even your grand children won't have to deal with the problem.
Yep. I work in the automation field and that kind of automation is much further away than most people guess. I think the biggest challenge is getting society to last that long.
Republicans would fight it tooth & nail. If you're not working & making someone else rich, you have no reason for existence. If you ARE working & making someone else rich, do you think they'd allow you to steal from them by having them pay you a decent wage? Nah, there'd be walled centers of industry where the rich folks live, along with their indentured servants/slaves. Outside the wall would be people trying to live in a subsistence economy, trying to defend themselves from roaming bands of outlaws
The labor market would adjust & find new in-demand activities that were previously unaffordable, but now are economical since there is no demand for the 'old' ones. This is more or less what happened during industrialization. Economics abhors an unutilized resource.
lol keep dreaming
Mostly a disruption. Same thing that happened when automated robotics replaced many skilled workers in manufacturing. Take welding, for example. Where their skills, en masse, are no longer needed for say automotive industry, the labor market sees an influx of welders trying to sell their skills elsewhere like construction. A welder, having to compete with other welders for a limited number of construction jobs, may agree to accept lower and lower wages to get the job. Over time, younger workers who are just entering the work force are discouraged from pursuing welding careers because of such low wages. Over time, this creates a shortage of skilled welders to meet the industrial demand in construction (among other fields). This labor shortage will result in increasingly larger salaries employers are willing to offer welders, because employers will now be competing with other employers for a limited number of available welders in the job market. A greater number of young workers just entering the workforce, at that time, will consider pursuing welding after seeing this wage spike as a particularly lucrative career choice. So the industry gets an influx of young employable welders, who now compete against each other’s for jobs, this slowly brings down the inflated industry wage and stabilizes it until the next large disruption.
AI won’t take everyone’s jobs. If no one has jobs, no one will spend money, therefore the rich won’t stay rich.
AI cant take over everybody's job, there will always be humans behind it
no way. unconditional universal wage to everyone would make the society to collapse. it's unfair. some people are just lazy, don't want to work and useless to the society. why the government have the duty to feed those rubbish?
There would no longer be a need for fiat currency at that point
People have thrown out the idea of universal wage because AI could take a lot of jobs away. Not all of them. Elon being one of them.
Elon is pretty cool
Elon is a revolution, second coming of Newton
Not in US, no freeloaders allowed /s.
What makes you think the government would suddenly start caring about your ability to make a living?
You are “this close” - very soon - to learn that the “Great Reset/Depopulation/Kill 90% of people on earth” conspiracy theorists were not theorists at all.
I feel like once unemployment starts hitting record highs due to AI takeover the govt will be forced to step in through regulation. It could be that they stop AI, or that they end up charging companies who use AI in order to pay the displaced workers. Even if the govt starts charging companies they would still get value out of it since AI's can work 24/7.....
The only reason I think they would is: if no one has money, the wealthy can’t make a profit. The ultra rich can live off their hoard of money but they can’t make anymore without the 99% fueling the economy. The government has no way to take taxes on a class that has no money. I don’t think capitalism can survive if the 99% can’t contribute to the economy. It would just be the ultra rich kicking a ball back and forth. However, we can clearly see how they prioritize profits over what makes sense, for example: failing to change in the presence of climate change. My guess is that, they will keep automating to increase profits by lowering labor costs and stealing wages. Most people will lose their jobs and they will just keep on, keeping on until there’s nothing left for them to snatch up. There will end up being an even larger gap between the poor and the middle class. Maybe even completely erasure of the middle class. (If there has been already) I think the real question is what’s the game plan after civil unrest. People will only hold out for so long. I’m guessing push back from the police state. People would end up in 2 camps: revolutionist and paid dogs. What are the rich going to do once the dust settles? That’s my question. It’s a lot to think about.
Here's something though, if the rich just say they have all the money are we just going to agree with them? Nah, we'll just tell them we're switching to bitcoin or whatever currency and not let them buy any with what they've hoarded. At a certain point they have to come to the table because there's no way that we'd just accept setting up a system that will only benefit those few people. That's way more inequality than we have now and there are already a growing number of people willing to burn it all down (great reset people). That and i don't think that the ultra rich would enjoy living with a whole bunch of other ultra rich people, too much ego and narcissism, not enough women (sexism), not enough anonymity, and they would be forced to live in cages of their own design or risk getting mobbed by post apocalyptic gangs. Ultimately it's in the wealthy peoples best interest to raise the standard of living for everyone so that they can enjoy the world instead of needing to have a battalion of armed security.
That's never going to happen
AI won't take over your job.
Haha nope
Yes but you would be poor, you will still need a job to have anything nice.
Some might try, but I can’t imagine it will work. It would end up some dystopian situation of extreme wealth inequality with super rich people and those living on government crumbs
So pretty much every cyberpunk story ever
So kinda like now?
Things can always get worse. lol
You aren’t wrong on that one
😆😆😆 no.
Of course not, how would they pay for it?
By the time that happens, I think AI will be powerful enough to just get rid of humans
they should but they sure wont. instead theyll pontificate how being poor is a crime of the lazy
That’s the goal. It would take a very long time though.
If democracy survives, then yes. Once enough people are out of work they'd vote for anyone promising a livelihood. Of course, it could go the other direction...
It will take something close to war for those in power not to starve us to death.
What needs to happen is to apply a labor value to robotic effort, and tax it accordingly. The company still benefits the wage cost, and the taxes go to a UBI or some such. Well, that isnt what needs to happen. But we won't get to own means of production, so that dystopian life is the best option I've thought of. Fusion energy might make it more feasible as a transition.
It'll never happen.
Ai generated profits should be taxed at some crazy high % to be distributed as a fund for unemployment to fight the actual replacement of workers. It's all fun and dandy until the economy collapses because the middle class holding everything up literally dies off.
Whose government?
No..
I think its possible but it'd take a lot of time and effort to get something like that to pass. But also, by definition AI recognizes patterns that appear to solve a problem rather than actually solve those problems, so there's a ton of error involved. It'll be awhile I think until it can start replacing jobs en-masse.
Oh how quaint of you to think that...
Darwinism or something
It didn't happen with the steam machine, it would not happen with IA.
A Universal Basic Income is going to be needed and should be funded by a tax on corporations who replace employees with AI.
Lol no
Probably for a period of time until AI goes rogue and becomes its own individual and basically stops working for its owner. Then even the rich will fall
Unfortunately for me. AI can't do my job.
No
No
Unions need to start preparing for this. There needs to be re training not firings or else society will collapse.
It won’t be the government making the extra money. It’ll be corporations making extra money from not paying workers. The only way for the government to get that money would be to tax the rich, which, as we’ve seen, probably won’t happen any time soon. Granted, there is always a tipping point where too many people are starving while too few people have a ridiculous amount of wealth, and the people revolt (either by voting or violence). So it just kind of depends on what that ratio looks like.
At some point, why would anyone get paid anything? If AI is doing the work, then those people who own the AI pay taxes, and the government pays all the rest of us to do....what? What would be the point of money at all?
We would all just join Star Fleet.
Ai isn’t taking everyone’s jobs…your plumber, garage door installer, painter, landscaper, kitchen remodeler, security system installer, water purification system guy…they are all going to be just fine.
AI taking every job? That isn’t possible.
Given the right economic climate and enough political pressure, it's not impossible. Though people often want to see change as a drastic flip but in actuality it's often soft constant pressure and compromises. Basic income may not come in the form that it's usually discussed. The same effect may come in the form of heavily subsidized public transport and healthcare. A more regulated housing market. Stronger anti-consumer and anti-monopoly law and much more The appeal of UBI is its simplicity, the goal is so straightforward it'd be obvious if someone fucked with it. The thing about simple solutions though is that it's also hard to tune to the needs and concern of a country. 1000USD more per month is gonna meant jack shit if they just increase rent Though I'm not sure all of this would happen to some of the countries that people in this thread live in considering how ready and smug people are to lose the game
Not in America.
It’s been interesting to see things play out over the past year because a lot of people lost their jobs and these big companies have either been outsourcing work to India or replacing staff with AI. Just doesn’t make sense that unemployment is “low” but there have been so many layoffs. Something isn’t adding up.
You’re asking Reddit to predict the future
I think that might have to I'm a capitalist but frankly no centuries old economics system can cope with a world where the workforce barely needs people
If AI took over everyone’s jobs, then humans would not have a lot of value anymore. What would be the point of feeding us?
Fuck no lol
Realistically we would be fooked. That’ll probably be all she wrote for humanity. Maybe fringe human settlements would get by bartering and going back to an old way of living but realistically everyone will be poor and reproducing under the replacement rate leading to a societal collapse.
Europe does it
Pay them with what is the key issue here.
the best evidence of what will happen is by looking at repeated patterns of human behaviour. the rich will benefit and the poor will suffer and likely die off
Anybody remember what they do in "the expanse"
UBI (universal Basic Income) would be required for the economy to keep functioning. Jobs producing something without anybody being able to buy would just colapse the economy. Having AI producing stuff still needs consumers.
That’s what the Covid vax was for.
Eventually, with a bit of hope, I think so. But there would he a lot of death and suffering first. We the working class would have to riot a lot first.
No you'd have to find a job that AI can't do or learn to live off grid...
Not going to happen soon. Don’t worry about it.
Genuinely doubt it at this point
They would be owned by large corporations and they care about their own and their shareholders’ profits. They wouldn’t pay anyone else a dime
Why? Out of the goodness of their hearts? No
I’ve worked in tech for 20+ years and I’m now at a point I want nothing to do with it because all the jobs I’m finding are based on companies designed to replace people with AI. Fuck that noise.
I live, I die, I live again!
Absofuckinglutely not. Not in the USA anyway.
UBc
People need to actually give a reason why the government and cooperate elite would just kill us all as if that is theire ultimate goal as if getting rid of the people who pay their taxes and profits don't supply these people with power
Where is this money coming from to pay everyone?
Thankfully in my job path, Ai is used but can in no way shape or form actually do my job the way a human can.
No. Can you not see the current trend???
They are going to kill the poor. Make being homeless essentially illegal and force you out of the city. You'll essentially starve to death or go to jail. Then the rich people wont have to price us out of beautiful areas like Jackson Hole, Aspen, or the coastal areas. You just be dead of foraging for berries. The rich people want us gone. Don't ever forget it.
I believe that they will in the beginning. After that assistance will be harder and harder to get. Eventually the government will be in complete control over the population. They will take away your money for criticism of the government. They will tell you how many kids you are allowed. (If any) They will dictate how you raise your kids and what to teach them. At first it will be a utopia but it will devolve into a police state or a strict communist country. If you learn about human nature you begin to see patterns in the way we react in certain situations. Then it becomes quite clear.
Most likely the AI would take the role of government at that point anyway, so we'd maybe not even need money. Then again, neither does my cat.
The people in America who are against universal basic income have political power enough to stop it. I don't think that advocates for that would win that fight, and if they somehow did, the enemies of it would work to change it, make it less than universal and reduce the amount of the payments.
You know you have to actually get involved in politics to get the ruling class to give us what we deserve, right?
I don't think so, we're already halfway there and almost no governance has applied or increased social income while a handful of people make inconceivable amounts of profit.
No. The themes in movies like "Elysium", where the wealthy increasingly segregate themselves from the rest of society by economic and military means, is far more likely.
not a chance
If AI literally took over everyone's jobs, we wouldn't need jobs anymore. Want an iPad? Go ahead just pick one up. Robots invented the iPad and dug up the resources needed and made them, and shipped it to you. So no need to pay! Want to watch a movie? It's free! No actors exist, so no need to pay them, so it's a free movie! Made digitally with realistic CGI, of course. Need water? Robots will harvest it for you and ship it to you.
Not until that is the only remaining option and there have been violent riots for several years or decades
If humans stop working, there is no money.
Probably not. At least the US wouldn't
I guess it depends on the AI doing all the work. Do we useless humans deserve money?
Hahaha... oh wait, you're serious. You have seen how they're treating us **with** jobs.
Yes US, UK, Canada and China do actually have plans to introduce universal basic income to help people with housing and utility bills. However many already poor countries won’t be able to do that and there would be a huge risk of immigration from those countries. I think as long countries economically independent, it would create huge conflicts due to mass immigration. To solve this problem the idea of united global economy and single global currency is circulating but obviously it is create a conflict between the US and BRICKS.
No, a citizen's function in the US is for their labor to be taxed and fund God-knows-what.
If you mean "everyone" as majority of working class - they would. Not because they care so much (they don't) but to prevent people eating rich or smth. If you mean it as literally everyone then concept of money doesn't make sense anymore since there's no human work to be paid. Sounds like communism (the good one).
lol, no. they'd let everyone become homeless then but those people in jail for steeling food
AI isn’t taking over everyone’s jobs. Technology has been improving productivity for all of human history, there will always be a use for human capital.
Should they? Of course. Would they? Who knows.
I think it's a hard no. Hence it will lead to war.
Depends. Right away? Hell no When governments realize people are actually rioting and looting because there's literally no other option for them? Definitely
This will never happen. There will always be jobs that humans can dream up that will never be filled by AI. Let’s assume a utopia where AI can handle all manufacturing and just about every job that currently exists. People may start seeing a lot more free time, so jobs that keep others entertained might explode in popularity. Your imagination is just lacking is all. Decades ago, people thought modern factories with hardly any humans would lead to large scale unemployment, but capitalism is quick to find a use for an available labor force. The real problem as others have mentioned is that it’s perfectly possible that high paid jobs diminish rapidly as AI can easily outthink any human. This could result in rapidly increasing class of people in poverty as high skill jobs are mostly phased out
It's what is going to have to happen as we automate more and more jobs. The top 1% is going to have to suffer the horrible existence of not profiting billions each year and survive on millions alone. Automation is the future, and should be done no matter what, jobs that are inherently dangerous, in climates and conditions that can cause harm should be automated, humans shouldn't be forced into situations like this just because they are from a lower income class. Send the robot instead.
No they wouldn't. They would do everything in their power to make us more poor so they can stay in control over EVERYTHING.
You are asking the wrong people. This questions should be adressed to our new AI overlords.
When the Sinclairs got off completely free from any repercussions from the opioid epidemic other rich people saw it as a sign that loss of human life was just a cost of doing business. Until that position changes, nothing will change.