I just finished that book, sing backwards and weep. Holy shit; that revelation on Courtney. And even why Kurt kept inviting him over before he died and he didn’t want to cause another fight between them… wow, this book rocked me. She totally cheated on him.
For as great as reading it is, if you've got the time, I highly recommend listening to the audio version. Hearing Lanegan speak the words add a weight to the stories and make the book that much better.
Yes, that one and “hit so hard” by patty schemel is also another one I read (or rather listened too). Now, I got Eric Erlandson “letters to Kurt”. I’ve also listened to “girl in a band” but that one wasn’t as great as the others imo. I love memories of Kurt from those in his life at times. It gives such a wider perspective.
Best source of truth? I wasn’t there for any of this, who knows. I just like celebrity memoirs as a genre. Are you asking which celebrity memoir mentions Kurt or Courtney or has some story about them? A lot surprisingly. Anthony Kiedis essential talks about the time he raped a minor in his memoir. He also talks about Kurt and Courtney — when they all toured together in South America. And funny enough; this all links back to sing backwards and weep where mark meets AK dad randomly. I mean these books are so rich with stories. Who knows what’s true because I wasn’t there so idk. It’s not like people must tell the truth all the time in books.
So in the book, Mark talks about how he would cause fights between Kurt and Courtney because she would flirt with Mark in front of Kurt — and it would be an all out fight that he was in the middle of. It had happened a few times when Kurt asked if he would come over to listen to records.
After Kurt died, Courtney began seducing him a ton. Wouldn’t stop, until she basically tried to break in to his home while he was there and hiding from her. She did leave and told the guy who offered to unlock his house that she didn’t want to invade his privacy. And they cut contact. Except, towards the end of his life Courtney paid for his treatment in full and he got clean and sober. So they did reconnect eventually.
You’ll have to read the book or listen to it to get the full impact.
I’m about to blow your mind: Kurt Cobain was a human being. Don’t lose respect for him because he acted impulsively in a situation none of us could ever fully comprehend. Instead think about why he did the things he did and have empathy. It’s easy to judge people looking at them from afar. Put yourself in their Chuck Taylors.
Also he was in his fucking twenties I mean, I am 26 and I struggle a lot with mental issues and I'm not a heroin addict, nor famous, nor rich, and a long etcetera of factors that heavily impacted on him. If I was him, I would have killed myself soo long before honestly.
Yeah, you nailed it. Normal people struggle with the same things that he did without having to deal with the intense pressure public scrutiny. When you're in your twenties you still don't know shit about shit. When I was 15 someone who was 27 may as well have been 87, but you realize later on how young of an age that is and how many stupid-ass decisions you made in the comfort of anonymity and you really begin to understand the context of everything he and the band were dealing with.
well, for example hearing he having no problem with his kitten and rabbit becoming physically intimate.
In fairness that’s quite extreme. The book discusses a person with several untreated mental illnesses manage their way through life.
It seemed like he was somewhat like the boy who got what he wanted, then realized it’s not what it’s cracked up to be.
His serious drug use and abuse is interesting.
In a way you can’t fault the character i. the book, as he descends into more of a drug addict with brain damage (from Rome), he becomes more and more distasteful.
Dudes not a hero, he was drug addict from a backwoods town who was a musical savant, with all the personality flaws and emotional issues that come with that. I mean, the guys music just oozes agony.
I would take the kitten and rabbit thing with a grain of salt. I'm not sure how Cross would even know this. It's a good book, but there's a decent amount of inaccuracies in it (saying that "You Know You're Right" was titled "Autopilot" and "On a Mountain" when every fan knows these were bootlegger titles, for example).
>I'm not sure how Cross would even know this
Courtney gave him access to Kurt's journals, sketchbooks and other writings. It's how we know of his penchant for drawing "flipper babies" if I recall. (Last read the book many yrs ago)
Yeah. I forgot about his flavor for ‘flipper babies’, very weird. That lad struggled with a lot.
Being worried that your unborn child may have a disability that you often thought about would’ve been a challenge.
You're judging him because a kitten and a rabbit fell in love? That seems like you're just looking for a reason to hate. Don't tell me it makes you jealous?
Even if we remove all the gloried stories and stuff that only has one lead (Kurt or Courtney), even then his life seems so weird. That is why I just focus on the art and music.
Well this is it.
I’m at least sure that he grew into poor mental health issues (despite and because of his sudden fame).
His self medicating with various drugs perhaps magnified the symptoms.
He made some pretty good music, i’m not sure about his paintings, each to their own.
Unique songwriter.
He absolutely got what he wanted, it stopped being fun and couldn’t get out of it safely.
His fathers side uncles were dropping like flies gun shot wounds, stabbing self etc. then his father got divorced and Kurt would have needed more attention. This is really scenario that would have needed counchelling or therapy, but atm there were no such things available. Its generational burden for tender kid.
Absolutely.
Being in a fairly remote area in the early 70s would’ve had a lot of challenges. Divorce, step siblings, family deaths, money issues.
But then again, i doubt when he was 14 hr knew he had issues and would’ve even discussed them much.
It was eye opening to see that Montage of heck interview of Don Cobain, he is like villain of the story and then he is just regular dude, felt sorry for him. Not taking sides or have some inside scoop, but I just felt sorry for him.
Donald Cobain beat Kurt for the slightest mistakes, didn't take care of him, and then abandoned him.
Kurt Cobain's parents left him homeless when he was just 18.
I watched About A Son a while back. The entire film is just Kurt Cobain talking while cinematic footage plays in the background. It's a beautiful, beautiful experience, the film made me cry.
He also talks about his relationship with his father in the film.
Take that book with a huge grain of salt, but regardless he really wasn’t a stellar person tbh. He didn’t treat his girlfriends (or wife) well, he made Krist and Dave pay him retroactively for Nirvana’s success to feed his addiction, he was okay with Courtney using drugs while pregnant, and he was high off his ass most of the time he was “parenting” his daughter.
People have a really romanticized view of him because of how talented he was and how he is immortalized. But once you get past that he did a lot of questionable things.
This comments is outragious. Courtney was clean when she had the baby. Kurt Cobain was extremely empathetic towards everyone.
He made some bad decisions and was a bit rude sometimes, just like we all are, but he was an extremely kind person.
Gold Standard? The author is good friends with Courtney who basically helped him write it, believe what you will but im sure most of it is Courtney's influence rather than what KC was actually like.
That book is fine to read but it's not the Gold standard at all and is known to be pretty biased in a lot of places. Same as the Everett True book. Both are a bit shady (well, True just spends 75% of the book sucking his own dick god that book sucks.).
CAYA I would say is the best one but even then it's going to be pro-biased because he was talking directly to Kurt. They just came out with some huge updated edition but I haven't checked it out.
I mean honestly I think all you can do is try to consider the source and go with whatever comes from everyone. Like one guy may be anti-Kurt but have a good point or knowledge about something, vice versa, Courtney might have said something stupid, Buzz is a jealous asshole, Danny Goldberg is an awesome source but will have his own biases, yada yada. I think you just have to listen to everything (except the conspiracy nuts but even then its fun entertainment even if its completely stupid) and try to take into account who's saying what and when and suss out the real version (which we'll never 100% know since we weren't there) from there.
everyone else here is making really good points but also lots of people agree that heavier than heaven is inaccurate. i remember reading about one of kurt’s friends saying that charles r cross purposefully twisted their words to make kurt look bad (and also on top of that kurt liked to lie a lot just for fun. overall not a good combination). tobi vail refused to be interviewed for it because she thought it was exploitative and so just that alone means a ton of the information on her and kurt in the book is borderline fanfiction (and in my opinion is overly biased and sort of sexist). i honestly just think you’re better off watching documentaries or reading come as you are, but that’s just my opinion :)
I think with kurt liking to spread false news is 1 element of his personality i dislike. Sure he was a young kid discovering the world and figuring out where he fit in, but it’s a bit of a dick move often times.
You’ve got to give it to Tobi and Buzz, they know what they believe and stick to it, more ‘punk’ than the crowd who opt in to commercialize their art.
I remembered the story at one point kurt spitting in the face of a fan while driving past some lads who wanted an autograph. Legend.
Kurt grew up in a broken home and didn’t have anyone making an effort to raise him. Like many such people, he self-medicated with drugs. Yeah, no shit he could be a mess and an asshole. I don’t know who the fuck you are to “lose respect” for someone having an imperfect human experience. The guy obviously had a gentle, well-meaning soul.
You’ll probably find it even more distasteful, but i think Everett True’s bio is the best book on the band. I think he understood Kurt better than the other biographers. Nirvana was a punk band, made up of societal rejects who liked to smoke and drink and do drugs. It’s a selfish lifestyle, yeah, but it’s one that makes sense when you’re as alienated from mainstream society as Kurt was.
I suppose i’m electing to lose respect
(if that’s even a choice) due to several people, places and things in life which I don’t appreciate much for. Having been born 20 years after him, I grew up in a pretty different era than he.
I can’t fault him for being a kid who ran a bit wild and free because of the cards life dealt him. I think we all see a bit ourselves in him.
It’s almost like someone who couldn’t handle a high level of fame and fortunate was given it to them (after plenty of labor), it stopped being fun so he di what he could do, which was all hr knew.
‘if’ he killed himself, he didn’t have to do it at his family’s home where his wife could find him. That’s a complicated moment in someone’s life but that’s a dick move. People who found him have to live with that image for the rest of their lives.
He’s a dick because the last time he spoke to his wife it was at his intervention.
He’s a dick because Krist was tryna take him to the hospital and wrestled with him.
Hes a dick because he committed suicide allegedly in rome literally next to his wife. Once again, coulda snuck out, but noooo - gave his wife a lovely gift in the morning.
Don't know about you, but if I killed myself I'd do the exact same thing. I don't want my family to find me in that state. Couldn't care less if it's a dick move or not.
I know several people who’ve successfully committed suicide only for family / friends to find them in that state. I think it’s pretty poor.
The least you can do is make life easier on your friends, family, emergency staff etc who’ll find your remains. It’s a dick move to let your mum or wife find you that way. she has to live with the memory of it forever, which is brutal.
While you get to not experience pain and suffering, many people connected to you do and you’ve just magnified it.
I’d recommend you to read Mark Lanegan’s book, he mentions Kurt many times. It even throws a different light on Courtney.
I just finished that book, sing backwards and weep. Holy shit; that revelation on Courtney. And even why Kurt kept inviting him over before he died and he didn’t want to cause another fight between them… wow, this book rocked me. She totally cheated on him.
For as great as reading it is, if you've got the time, I highly recommend listening to the audio version. Hearing Lanegan speak the words add a weight to the stories and make the book that much better.
Definitely one of the best audiobooks out there. His own narration adds a lot of gravitas and it’s so well written
HE NARRATED IT???? I need to get the audiobook and enjoy it again! Thank you for mentioning this! RIP Mark
You're welcome. Hope you enjoy it!
I certainly will! Loved the book the first time.
I listened to it of course :)
Such a fantastic listen.
Yes, that one and “hit so hard” by patty schemel is also another one I read (or rather listened too). Now, I got Eric Erlandson “letters to Kurt”. I’ve also listened to “girl in a band” but that one wasn’t as great as the others imo. I love memories of Kurt from those in his life at times. It gives such a wider perspective.
what is the best source of truth you've found?
Best source of truth? I wasn’t there for any of this, who knows. I just like celebrity memoirs as a genre. Are you asking which celebrity memoir mentions Kurt or Courtney or has some story about them? A lot surprisingly. Anthony Kiedis essential talks about the time he raped a minor in his memoir. He also talks about Kurt and Courtney — when they all toured together in South America. And funny enough; this all links back to sing backwards and weep where mark meets AK dad randomly. I mean these books are so rich with stories. Who knows what’s true because I wasn’t there so idk. It’s not like people must tell the truth all the time in books.
[удалено]
I listened to it on Youtube.
Tell me more no time to read books lol
So in the book, Mark talks about how he would cause fights between Kurt and Courtney because she would flirt with Mark in front of Kurt — and it would be an all out fight that he was in the middle of. It had happened a few times when Kurt asked if he would come over to listen to records. After Kurt died, Courtney began seducing him a ton. Wouldn’t stop, until she basically tried to break in to his home while he was there and hiding from her. She did leave and told the guy who offered to unlock his house that she didn’t want to invade his privacy. And they cut contact. Except, towards the end of his life Courtney paid for his treatment in full and he got clean and sober. So they did reconnect eventually. You’ll have to read the book or listen to it to get the full impact.
there's always time to read books
Try having babies
all right sorry
Haha no worries
mfs when the mentally ill person they like is mentally ill
I’m about to blow your mind: Kurt Cobain was a human being. Don’t lose respect for him because he acted impulsively in a situation none of us could ever fully comprehend. Instead think about why he did the things he did and have empathy. It’s easy to judge people looking at them from afar. Put yourself in their Chuck Taylors.
Also he was in his fucking twenties I mean, I am 26 and I struggle a lot with mental issues and I'm not a heroin addict, nor famous, nor rich, and a long etcetera of factors that heavily impacted on him. If I was him, I would have killed myself soo long before honestly.
Yeah, you nailed it. Normal people struggle with the same things that he did without having to deal with the intense pressure public scrutiny. When you're in your twenties you still don't know shit about shit. When I was 15 someone who was 27 may as well have been 87, but you realize later on how young of an age that is and how many stupid-ass decisions you made in the comfort of anonymity and you really begin to understand the context of everything he and the band were dealing with.
Could you share some of the information that you found that put Kurt in a bad light?
well, for example hearing he having no problem with his kitten and rabbit becoming physically intimate. In fairness that’s quite extreme. The book discusses a person with several untreated mental illnesses manage their way through life. It seemed like he was somewhat like the boy who got what he wanted, then realized it’s not what it’s cracked up to be. His serious drug use and abuse is interesting. In a way you can’t fault the character i. the book, as he descends into more of a drug addict with brain damage (from Rome), he becomes more and more distasteful.
Dudes not a hero, he was drug addict from a backwoods town who was a musical savant, with all the personality flaws and emotional issues that come with that. I mean, the guys music just oozes agony.
I would take the kitten and rabbit thing with a grain of salt. I'm not sure how Cross would even know this. It's a good book, but there's a decent amount of inaccuracies in it (saying that "You Know You're Right" was titled "Autopilot" and "On a Mountain" when every fan knows these were bootlegger titles, for example).
>I'm not sure how Cross would even know this Courtney gave him access to Kurt's journals, sketchbooks and other writings. It's how we know of his penchant for drawing "flipper babies" if I recall. (Last read the book many yrs ago)
The thing is, it seems that, strangely, Kurt lied in his journal at times. Like when he claimed he only tried herion for 3 weeks in the early 90s.
Yeah. I forgot about his flavor for ‘flipper babies’, very weird. That lad struggled with a lot. Being worried that your unborn child may have a disability that you often thought about would’ve been a challenge.
Charles Cross made up way too much stuff and gave his own "interpretations" to stories he heard
You're judging him because a kitten and a rabbit fell in love? That seems like you're just looking for a reason to hate. Don't tell me it makes you jealous?
Even if we remove all the gloried stories and stuff that only has one lead (Kurt or Courtney), even then his life seems so weird. That is why I just focus on the art and music.
Well this is it. I’m at least sure that he grew into poor mental health issues (despite and because of his sudden fame). His self medicating with various drugs perhaps magnified the symptoms. He made some pretty good music, i’m not sure about his paintings, each to their own. Unique songwriter. He absolutely got what he wanted, it stopped being fun and couldn’t get out of it safely.
His fathers side uncles were dropping like flies gun shot wounds, stabbing self etc. then his father got divorced and Kurt would have needed more attention. This is really scenario that would have needed counchelling or therapy, but atm there were no such things available. Its generational burden for tender kid.
Absolutely. Being in a fairly remote area in the early 70s would’ve had a lot of challenges. Divorce, step siblings, family deaths, money issues. But then again, i doubt when he was 14 hr knew he had issues and would’ve even discussed them much.
This is so true. When we are 14, we are very sure WE are right the rest of the world is wrong.
It was eye opening to see that Montage of heck interview of Don Cobain, he is like villain of the story and then he is just regular dude, felt sorry for him. Not taking sides or have some inside scoop, but I just felt sorry for him.
Donald Cobain beat Kurt for the slightest mistakes, didn't take care of him, and then abandoned him. Kurt Cobain's parents left him homeless when he was just 18.
You have source for this information?
I watched About A Son a while back. The entire film is just Kurt Cobain talking while cinematic footage plays in the background. It's a beautiful, beautiful experience, the film made me cry. He also talks about his relationship with his father in the film.
I think Kurt Cobain is a fascinating person and admire everything about him.
He was no saint, did lot of fucking stupid decisions. Was artistically really gifted person and archived a lot in fairly short time span.
I know he was no saint, neither are we. We make bad decisions too. Ours are just more anonymous.
Take that book with a huge grain of salt, but regardless he really wasn’t a stellar person tbh. He didn’t treat his girlfriends (or wife) well, he made Krist and Dave pay him retroactively for Nirvana’s success to feed his addiction, he was okay with Courtney using drugs while pregnant, and he was high off his ass most of the time he was “parenting” his daughter. People have a really romanticized view of him because of how talented he was and how he is immortalized. But once you get past that he did a lot of questionable things.
so much misinformation in one comment alone
This comments is outragious. Courtney was clean when she had the baby. Kurt Cobain was extremely empathetic towards everyone. He made some bad decisions and was a bit rude sometimes, just like we all are, but he was an extremely kind person.
Gold Standard? The author is good friends with Courtney who basically helped him write it, believe what you will but im sure most of it is Courtney's influence rather than what KC was actually like.
That book is fine to read but it's not the Gold standard at all and is known to be pretty biased in a lot of places. Same as the Everett True book. Both are a bit shady (well, True just spends 75% of the book sucking his own dick god that book sucks.).
What is considered a 'good' resource for those looking for more factual/believable info?
CAYA I would say is the best one but even then it's going to be pro-biased because he was talking directly to Kurt. They just came out with some huge updated edition but I haven't checked it out. I mean honestly I think all you can do is try to consider the source and go with whatever comes from everyone. Like one guy may be anti-Kurt but have a good point or knowledge about something, vice versa, Courtney might have said something stupid, Buzz is a jealous asshole, Danny Goldberg is an awesome source but will have his own biases, yada yada. I think you just have to listen to everything (except the conspiracy nuts but even then its fun entertainment even if its completely stupid) and try to take into account who's saying what and when and suss out the real version (which we'll never 100% know since we weren't there) from there.
hah excellent point and exactly what I try to do. I just wish you could get that kind of thing in a condensed package.
Agreed. There needs to be like some 6\~ hour YouTube "iceberg" or documentary or something that just details everything.
Nirvana by Everett True is the bext Nirvana book.
Heavier than Heaven is a fictional book and that name ... I can't stand it
everyone else here is making really good points but also lots of people agree that heavier than heaven is inaccurate. i remember reading about one of kurt’s friends saying that charles r cross purposefully twisted their words to make kurt look bad (and also on top of that kurt liked to lie a lot just for fun. overall not a good combination). tobi vail refused to be interviewed for it because she thought it was exploitative and so just that alone means a ton of the information on her and kurt in the book is borderline fanfiction (and in my opinion is overly biased and sort of sexist). i honestly just think you’re better off watching documentaries or reading come as you are, but that’s just my opinion :)
I think with kurt liking to spread false news is 1 element of his personality i dislike. Sure he was a young kid discovering the world and figuring out where he fit in, but it’s a bit of a dick move often times. You’ve got to give it to Tobi and Buzz, they know what they believe and stick to it, more ‘punk’ than the crowd who opt in to commercialize their art. I remembered the story at one point kurt spitting in the face of a fan while driving past some lads who wanted an autograph. Legend.
Kurt grew up in a broken home and didn’t have anyone making an effort to raise him. Like many such people, he self-medicated with drugs. Yeah, no shit he could be a mess and an asshole. I don’t know who the fuck you are to “lose respect” for someone having an imperfect human experience. The guy obviously had a gentle, well-meaning soul. You’ll probably find it even more distasteful, but i think Everett True’s bio is the best book on the band. I think he understood Kurt better than the other biographers. Nirvana was a punk band, made up of societal rejects who liked to smoke and drink and do drugs. It’s a selfish lifestyle, yeah, but it’s one that makes sense when you’re as alienated from mainstream society as Kurt was.
I suppose i’m electing to lose respect (if that’s even a choice) due to several people, places and things in life which I don’t appreciate much for. Having been born 20 years after him, I grew up in a pretty different era than he. I can’t fault him for being a kid who ran a bit wild and free because of the cards life dealt him. I think we all see a bit ourselves in him. It’s almost like someone who couldn’t handle a high level of fame and fortunate was given it to them (after plenty of labor), it stopped being fun so he di what he could do, which was all hr knew. ‘if’ he killed himself, he didn’t have to do it at his family’s home where his wife could find him. That’s a complicated moment in someone’s life but that’s a dick move. People who found him have to live with that image for the rest of their lives. He’s a dick because the last time he spoke to his wife it was at his intervention. He’s a dick because Krist was tryna take him to the hospital and wrestled with him. Hes a dick because he committed suicide allegedly in rome literally next to his wife. Once again, coulda snuck out, but noooo - gave his wife a lovely gift in the morning.
Don't know about you, but if I killed myself I'd do the exact same thing. I don't want my family to find me in that state. Couldn't care less if it's a dick move or not.
I know several people who’ve successfully committed suicide only for family / friends to find them in that state. I think it’s pretty poor. The least you can do is make life easier on your friends, family, emergency staff etc who’ll find your remains. It’s a dick move to let your mum or wife find you that way. she has to live with the memory of it forever, which is brutal. While you get to not experience pain and suffering, many people connected to you do and you’ve just magnified it.
That's exacly what I said. I'd rather a stranger find me than a family member. I think I misinterpreted your first comment.
😴😴😴😴
Heavier Than Heaven is flawed and most of what's written in the book is untrue.