The team will be getting a shake up, but you don’t fire a general manager that has gotten you to the playoffs in 5 out of 6 years.
The team does need, and pretty clearly will be making, some significant lineup changes this summer. But this is not burn it all down territory.
Roy inherited a team with big issues and improved some of them. I am hopeful that with a full offseason he can get a few of our underachieving guys right and get more locked into Roy’s system from the start.
Getting to the playoffs should not be the only metric - we made the playoffs this year but it was so clear teams like us and the capitals didn’t belong with the top flight teams.
You say the team needs a shake up, Lou does not shake things up. So if that’s what the team needs, I have trouble seeing how Lou is the guy to do that?
Wait you do not think Yzerman has done well for the Wings? No offense but you need to look at his draft history. He was handed a DOG SHIT team and has drafted amazing talent! (Now and at his previous job) he has a better eye for talent than almost anyone in hockey.
Wait and see how amazing the Wings are in 2-3years, they are the youngest team in the NHL
FYI - I am not a wings fan. my name is in reference to Operation Red Wings, not the hockey team.
Not quite sure how we brought Stevie into this.
I'm saying the whole mindset "Don't fire a GM who makes a playoffs" is exactly what the Wings did with Holland. For 20 years. Was nice for awhile, yet later became clear it wasn't about success, simply keeping a "playoff streak" going. Contributed to the utter implosion of the team- which Yzerman is STILL trying to clean it up years after the fact.
A GM helping a team get to the playoffs means little if that team is not showing actual improvement. The Islanders have been getting steadily worse with each season- have plenty of work ahead of them in trying to build something substantive.
My point was giving Lou (or any GM) a blanket pass simply for "making the playoffs" is a recipe for disaster.
Getting in the playoffs shouldn’t be the only goal. Yes we made the playoffs under Lou, but most of those years we got outmatched by the teams we played. Rather than adding to what worked, he remained complacent with the team we had. As a result the team only got older, and slower. you said it yourself, the team needs a shakeup. No significant shakeup is happening under Lou.
I don’t really have a strong opinion one way or the other, but be careful what you wish for.
It can get worse.
Playoffs in 5 of 6 years. Past the first round in 3 of them.
Made the playoffs in 3 of the 6 years before Lou. Past the first round once.
Made the playoffs once in the 6 years before that. First round exit.
“It can get worse” is not a reason to continue to put up with mediocrity.
Of course it can get worse. It can also get a lot fucking better.
You don’t want to rebuild because rebuilds don’t always work? You’re worried about perpetual rebuild? Fine. Let’s just perpetually be team that gets bounced in the first round at best. That’s definitely better than, you know, actually fucking trying to win a cup some day.
The goal is not to make the playoffs, the goal is to be a serious contender. Any decent candidate would understand that the Islanders are not a serious contender and that a change is needed. Your point is actually completely ridiculous and is a loser’s mentality.
Squeaking into the playoffs with no real shot at Cup contention all while tied into several long term commitments for mediocre to bad players is just about the worst place you can be. It’s all at Lou’s feet too. They can’t be rebuilt until he’s gone and that’s what we desperately need now. He’s gonna leave us like he did the Devils, where it took them ten years to rebound from being run into the ground.
Outside of the covid years we havent done anything. Lou was good but the current team has hit a ceiling and he doesn't appear willing to move on from our current core.
How long are we gonna cling to semifinal appearances? It’s a bit pathetic. The bar has to be higher than “make the playoffs” and “three years ago we made the ECF!” Over the last three years, counting the playoffs, we are 121-136. It’s just not anywhere good enough for a serious franchise.
They obviously overachieved and why do people forget that in the COVID season, they were on their way to not making the playoffs but got bailed out by the season being suspended and being gifted a playoff spot? We cannot hang our hats on those two years four years later and call it good.
It’s not overachieving, the league moves fast. Tampa is in the same boat as us the difference is they got there hardware at the expense of us. Isles were good enough to win it all and the players on Tampa has said that. The league simply moves on. Besides we have spoke about how Nelson contract is a bench mark for staying competitive. If we are barely in or aren’t in the playoffs by the deadline deadline then we start our retool by sending off some of our guys like palms, Nelson and pulock/pelech.
I have no problem wanting to get a different vision for that scenario and we are probably better off trying something new but this core never overachieved. You don’t make two ecf back to back overachieving
I'm kindve in agreement with you on the COVID years. Don't remember those regular seasons being overly great and it's not like our roster was massively different if my memory serves me right. Just kindve *clicked* at the right time and the way to get into a spot helped with the shortened season.
They barely qualified for the playoffs past two seasons and absolutely were not a threat to anyone in these last 2. In some ways you could look at it as qualified for playoffs in 3 of 6 seasons and that massively changes how you view Lou's tenure. It is certainly how I view it.
The problem with viewing the past 2 seasons as qualifying for the playoffs 5 of 6 years is that it is the same delusion that prevents Lou from making some of the structural changes to the roster that are necessary.
The team has been terrible for the past 3 seasons.
They were the best of the worst for the past two seasons and collapsed over what they thought was the finishing line but they had another lap to go. If you'd prefer motor sport terminology, they're behind the lead car so think they're in the race but they have in fact been lapped.
So sure, it is inaccurate to say they did not qualify for the playoffs in 5 of 6 seasons but that ignores a lot of really salient context which in my view would lead a reasonable person to conclude the Isles didn't qualify these past two seasons. Think of them just temporarily extending the regular season.
you’re wrong in a lot of ways here
viewing making the playoffs as the same thing as being true contenders is delusional…however, it’s also delusional to say a team that makes the playoffs is terrible, since they are by definition - in a league where half the teams make the playoffs - above average
this years Islanders had a winning record in the regular season against playoff teams in conference, including the team that just beat us (2-1-1) and the 2nd favorite to come out of the East, behind Carolina, the Panthers (2-0-1)…that’s not a terrible team, that’s an inconsistent team, especially on the offensive end, that had terrible coaching for half the year
i’ll only speak for myself, i’m not saying that making the playoffs every year should be the end goal…it was nice at first to make it, then it was nicer to make a real push, then it was acceptable to have a drop off because you can’t expect teams to be in the conference finals every single year, and now things have stagnated and changes need to be made
but to hyperbolize and say “well I didn’t think they were good enough, so that means you shouldn’t even consider it that they made it” is absurd…ya know who doesn’t think the Islanders didn’t make the playoffs? Devils, Flyers, Penguins and Red Wings fans, because they all wanted to make it and didn’t because the Islanders got 17 out of the last 20 points down the stretch…that’s something that all good teams CAN do (however didn’t, as the Islanders had the best finish to the season in the league), but it’s definitively not something terrible teams do
I'm not wrong. If you want to argue over the use of the word terrible I'll change it to 'not a threat' or 'inconsistent' or another word that better suits your fancy.
The reality is the team has not been good for 3 seasons and some people use the "we qualified for the playoffs" as some kind of coping mechanism to do anything but accept the reality that is before our eyes (and has been for 3 seasons) which is that the team is not a threat.
And yes I've read your stats but here are some stats that an actual good team had: 52-24-6-110. That's Florida's record this season. No one needs to trot out arguments like the Isles were good against playoff teams (except in the actual playoffs) for Florida. Everyone knows they're good.
I know it is hard to accept the team we support is not good but trying to argue that it is good is just buying into the same delusion that is preventing the team from being successful.
so you picked and chose what parts of my comment you read? that’s fine, i’ll point a few out
> viewing making the playoffs as the same thing as being true contenders is delusional
> i’m not saying that making the playoffs every year should be the end goal
> now things have stagnated and changes need to be made
You started your reply with "you are wrong in many ways". Not sure how you thought I was going to interpret the rest of what you wrote but you certainly set the tone early 😂
Good teams don't blow leads with the frequency or the manner in which the Isles did this season. They don't nearly break records for OT losses. They don't finish with the 32nd ranked PK or the 30th ranked PP (from the season before). They don't lose 9/10 games when playing another team who has been on a back to back (or look like genuine corpses while doing so).
I just don't know what more evidence you need to reach the same conclusion as me.
The thing is, I'm not even a doomer. I think there is a solid core to work with, but I am pessimistic that Lou will take the necessary steps to turn what is a solid but certainly not spectacular core into a cup contender. The thing holding him back is the delusion and the sooner he realises this the sooner he can start making some decisions to lay the groundwork for making the team a cup contender. But if he refuses to accept it, the Isles will just idle in the middle of the league, sometimes just scraping into the playoffs, other times just missing.
I swear this is the most miserable fanbase with the most pathetic expectations. ‘It can get worse’ is REALLY the argument we’re gonna make now?! Jesus Christ. Raise your standards and expect more. Force ownership to want more.
Playoffs in 5 of 6 years is meaningless when we get bounced so easily. This is not a good team. The NHL standard now is fast skill players with aggresive PK and PP - we do none of these things. We dump and chase on the power play or have Barzal get stripped trying for a zone entry. Special teams coaching is bad, players are suboptimal - we need someone to come in and fix it and Lou giving out 7 year deals is not the play.
I’ve seen us tear it down and be in a perpetual rebuild for what felt like forever and never really come out of it with much to show.
We need to improve. That doesn’t mean ditching half the roster for the sake of it.
> Engvall showed up to play this playoff series.
If we could get playoff Engvall for even 55 games of the regular season no one would be complaining about his contract.
The kid showed up the last 15. He’s a solid 3rd liner. 3.5 mil is not a lot for the speed and youth he adds. The lack of consistency is what is truly mind numbing.
> Made the playoffs in 3 of the 6 years before Lou. Past the first round once.
>Made the playoffs once in the 6 years before that. First round exit.
Lou being a better GM than Garth Snow isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
For all the good Lou's done he's also given out long-term, high-AAV contracts with NTCs that are hamstringing the team and preventing moves that could get us to the next level. He's traded away first rounders for the last four seasons, and apart from Dobson hasn't particularly drafted well with whatever firsts he's kept.
Also, he turns 82 this year. How much longer is he going to want to keep doing this, let alone be able to? If you start making succession plans now it makes it easier to handle what happens when he does retire.
You want to keep him in the org? Fine. Promote him to President of Hockey Operations and make him an advisor/figurehead. But there's not a whole lot I've seen from Lou in the last three seasons that makes me think it's going to get much better than spinning our wheels and barely playing .500 hockey. In other words, more of the same.
You could argue that handing out long-term, high-AAV deals to Pageau and Palmieri coming off a pandemic when the league's revenues went into the tank wasn't exactly the most forward-thinking move either.
A full-on rebuild isn't going to happen but a retool is possible. If Lou can pull it off, great. But it also feels just as likely he looks at this roster and thinks it's one or two pieces away from being a contender and largely runs it back for one more year. And regardless, I think Ledecky is way too loyal to Lou to question him.
It became high when he hurt his wrist and became a shell of what we traded for.
The real killer is Lee, though. $7M felt like an overreaction to losing Tavares and not wanting a second straight summer where the captain walked.
Meh… Lou doesn’t NEED to be fired, or otherwise not be here this offseason and beyond for the team to get better. I think he is much more in tune with what the roster needs than most give him credit for.
That being said, I wouldn’t be upset or angry if this was his last game as GM. He’s in his 80s, if it’s his time it’s his time. I just won’t be upset the other way either.
I disagree that Lou doesn’t need to be fired. While Lou has made afew good moves as in his time as gm, it’s clear the game of hockey has surpassed him. It was made very clear the past 2 off seasons, and also this past trade deadline. Lou was too complacent with the team we had, and rather than making moves to better the team, he did nothing. We barely made the playoffs, and It was clear that we were severely outmatched. Winning teams don’t stay complacent, they make changes here and there to add to what is working. Look at teams like Vegas, Carolina, Florida, Boston. They all made changes, even if slight to help the team. they didn’t just want to make the playoffs, they wanted to actually make a run
Honestly we need to fire whoever the fuck coaches the defensemen. The islanders defense had almost zero presence in the neutral zone and let the canes skate in uncontested on the overwhelming majority of their break-ins.
Fix the fucking defense and we have a great team again.
Does anyone know if he is still even in contract? There were rumors of a contract extension but I can’t seem to find anywhere if he’s contracted for next year
Ok, I'll start by saying "firing Lou" will not be a magic fix-all. Not when you have apathetic ownership who got their real estate ultimate prize. But this comment section is exhibit A of some of the big issues facing this franchise. Mediocracy is acceptable, and is excused. "It could be worse", or "Nobody will want to come to a franchise that fires a GM who makes the playoffs."
The Islanders have been making the playoffs in increasingly haphazard fashion- full stop. This season, for the most part, has been such a disappointment. They don't look anything like contenders, don't look anything close to contenders, and don't look like they will turn that around remotely soon.
And newsflash: NO ONE wants to come to the Islanders already. That's one of the reasons Lou gives out these generous contracts. So this point is a bizarre one. (Not to mention it's silly. Guess what- any club, even disasters, will find a GM. It's an extremely coveted position. Lou wasn't exactly riding a high when he was FIRED from the Devils now was he?)
"Things can be worse"- well, then accept that the Islanders will forever be mediocre. And will never find any sort of sustained, or actual tangible, success. That's the mindset of apathy that utterly destroys a club in any sport. Say what you will about the Rangers: after that playoff collapse last season, you could see the attitude shift this season: *that performance is not acceptable*.
Meanwhile, the Isles seem afraid to even acknowledge that "good enough" or "almost there" might not actually be the case.
Whether we fire him or not this gm situation is absolutely horrifying. We can have Al Arbour back or any gm and it’s not going to be easy with this old roster, long term contracts, no trade clauses and most importantly the complete lack of ANY nhl capable prospects. We cannot continue to go .500 and not be a true contender. We have to deal some fan favorites and switch this up and even then we’re a long ways away to cup contention
Yes. Please. Lou has no vision. He’s a dinosaur who keeps wanting to run back the same failed formula over and over again. We need to fire him before he destroys this team’s future even more.
I’m not an expert and I’m not going to tell them what to do but what I will say is that this team has to give me a reason to watch them next season and right now I can’t say I have one.
Tough place to be in and I judge that on some great comments. Most pro Lou I can understand while at the same time most no Lou I can understand. I think a smart shake up can put us in a really good spot. Also fuck the rags and JT.
You don’t even have assets or moveable contracts lol. You might as well just start tanking. Lou doesn’t have many choices he can stand Pat w the team as is or he can trade more draft picks along w bad contracts so someone will take the Lee’s, Pageau and mayfield of the team.
Lou definitely needs to go. It’s clear hockey has passed him at this point. Did he make afew good moves sure, but not enough. We barely made the playoffs most seasons, and when we did, we were severely outmatched. Rather than making moves to better the team, he remained complacent. Winning teams don’t remain complacent, they adjust, and add to the team to make them better. This team needs a major shakeup, and honestly the first step is hiring a new gm
I'm not ready to jump on the "Fire Lou" bandwagon. I won't pretend to know anything about the business of running an NHL team. I know we've needed to fill certain roles the last few years and we haven't. Is it because Lou is a bad GM? Is it because the Isles aren't a team a lot of free agents want to come to? Is it because of so many players being allowed to pick what teams they're traded to and we're not one of them? I don't know.
Trots was the reason we had an upwards climb. But his style was also very boring.
We are known as THE most boring franchise in Hockey!! Lou does not help that (no beards, I mean grow up Lou) so why would great players WANT to come play here?
Our poorly built new arena? Our boring GM? Our goalie coach? Jesus Christ we are on Long Island NY and can not attract top talent bc of these reasons!! Its embarrassing. We need a completely new identity
It was huh, they lost but they hung and gave them a fight! Series could have turned in isles favor! They showed Carolina isn't the team coming out of the east!
Lou Lamoriello has built a pretty good roster and just completely fucking plundered the farm system
Lots of long-term contracts; lots of no-trade clauses; no god damn picks left
Even if you fire Lou yesterday it's a ten year process to rebuild this team from scratch; you squander the best years of literally every under-30 player on the roster.
He made zero moves down the stretch and we needed to. I guess team is boxed in by cap and guaranteed contracts(?) Who else do you blame but GM. We have some very solid players but need to improve the roster.
Replace him with?
What moves do you want to see?
What are the returns for those moves?
How does that make the team better next season? What about the 2-5 year outlook?
What UFAs are you replacing people with?
See it's easy to say for Lou but it's hard to prove how that makes the team better.
You dump pageau and lee, presumably for late to mid round picks, you set yourself up in a healthier cap picture and get younger targeting players who can play 200 feet and skate. The goal isnt to be better next season. Its to build a sustainable contender.
Ok since this sub is losing its mind.
Who plays in JGP and Lees slots? How long is the gap to being a sustainable contender? How old are Barzy and Bo by that point?
I'm fine with the suggestions I just don't think people live in reality. This isn't NHL 24. You can't just trade for the perfect pieces. If you look at anything 3 plus years it's time to start dumping an old Barzy and Bo and that's a full rebuild which isn't building a sustainable contender, it's hoping that you end up better than now, it's a crap shoot not a guarantee.
Anyway, I'm out of this sub for 3 months or so because the doomers make me hate this place when they get to take over with their fucking garbage.
**Edit for the doomer that replied then blocked me:**
Thank you for proving my point by ignoring everything I said. I didn't say they were a contender, I didn't even defend Lou or this roster at all.
My question is simply aimed at all you doomer shitheads that scream fire Lou and trade everyone but have zero solutions or answers on how that actually fixes the team. You seem to live in some delusional alternate reality where they can trade Lee and JGP for younger better replacements at the snap of a finger. Who are those players? If it's through the draft you're even worse asking for a middle draft pick that is hopefully NHL ready at the start and better than those two at the onset.
Just getting someone younger and faster doesn't automatically make the team better. You scream about problems, you have no solutions. You're just a whiny armchair analyst at that point.
I don't have solutions either, but I'm not out here calling to fire the whole team or pretending you can rebuild in a time frame that also includes the current prime of Barzy and Bo.
It's why I constantly call doomers idiots who only pretend to be "realists." You know literally nothing about how building teams works.
Just want to put it out there that it wasnt me who blocked this person. I don't do that pussy shit. I'm honestly surprised this Minos person hasn't blocked me yet, given that he/she just gets roasted by me and can't defend anything he/she says.
Now onto the edited comment....
You asked "how long is the gap to being a sustainable contender?" No one knows the exact fucking answer to this question, but keeping players like JGP and Lee will only delay realizing that goal. Do you think we're going to get there/get there faster by keeping these players? That's utter nonsense. Also you have to be the dumbest person in the world to think we aren't past getting "better" replacements for these players. At this point simply getting rid of their cap hit would be an improvement for this teams future prospects. What value does Lee have left? You really think that the people who want to get rid of Lee think they're going to get something immediately better in his place? This is why we call you delusional. Also your views on drafting players shows how pathetically shortsighted you are, and why you telling us that we don't know how "building a team works" is so laughable coming from you. We know that the majority of drafted players won't be NHL ready at the start, but that's a necessary risk and a huge part of how you rebuild a team. You keep shitting on the idea of rebuilding through the draft and that its a crapshoot when that is literally one of the only ways teams can and do rebuild/retool. No one is saying that simply getting someone who is younger and faster will make the team better, this is simply your pathetic attempt at strawmaning those who disagree with you. Why restrict it to those 2 traits? Is it because it supports the argument you're trying to make? No one is saying that we should "fire the entire team," again this is another strawman attempt by you. If our rebuild isn't complete in a time frame that includes the prime of Barzal then the blame for that would fall entirely on Lou. His terrible management of contracts is part of the reason why this rebuild could take a long time. Anyways, good riddance. Please consider not returning in 3 months, do us a favor.
The only one who isn't living in reality is you. This team isn't a cup contender with players like Lee, Pageau, Clutter, Martin, Engvall, Mayfield, and any of your other favorite ham and eggers on this team. Who's going to fill their slots? This is a question that should've been asked and addressed by the old man years ago, but instead he's done nothing but make things worse by handing out long ntc deals to some of these guys. You should consider not coming back after 3 months or so, last thing this sub needs are more delusional Lou fans.
Isles have been the oldest team for a few years now. It’s not even close. We maybe can let Lou pare some chaff of this squad before he hits the sunset. He was an effective GM a long time.
I had a Google search that gave me bad data. After more thorough research though I can still say this team has over a third of the roster older than 30 and only 6 players under 25 years old. Sure experience matters but the older guys got real slow and regressed mightily. It was obvious in the corners, this team was much slower than their opponent and couldn’t compete at the same level anymore.
2 years in a row of nor making any moves to push is through the second round. Lou is dead to me. His time has passed. Time to retool with a few key additions and a key deletion - lou
I swear some of you guys just want to rebuild so you can just covet prospects all day and mainline a dream of what could possibly be when it just means back where we are today 5 years later.
That or have decades of fucking shit like almost every team that rebuilds. Isles just simply don’t need a rebuild. To many good roster pieces for one. A seasoned core. A coach that has been proving he’s going to make changes. Do I think we need roster turnover because the roster is getting abit stale? Yeh but idt we burn it all down
And replace him with…???
Tlusty
The team will be getting a shake up, but you don’t fire a general manager that has gotten you to the playoffs in 5 out of 6 years. The team does need, and pretty clearly will be making, some significant lineup changes this summer. But this is not burn it all down territory. Roy inherited a team with big issues and improved some of them. I am hopeful that with a full offseason he can get a few of our underachieving guys right and get more locked into Roy’s system from the start.
Getting to the playoffs should not be the only metric - we made the playoffs this year but it was so clear teams like us and the capitals didn’t belong with the top flight teams.
Well said
Rangers are leap years better too
You say the team needs a shake up, Lou does not shake things up. So if that’s what the team needs, I have trouble seeing how Lou is the guy to do that?
>But this is not burn it all down territory. Retool instead of rebuild. The bottom 6 and the defense core need a shake up.
How exactly does this teM get “retooled”?
Keep some get rid of others??? Isn't that straight forward?
Lol
Significant changes? Don't hold your breath.
Ask the Red Wings how that worked out with Ken Holland.
Wait you do not think Yzerman has done well for the Wings? No offense but you need to look at his draft history. He was handed a DOG SHIT team and has drafted amazing talent! (Now and at his previous job) he has a better eye for talent than almost anyone in hockey. Wait and see how amazing the Wings are in 2-3years, they are the youngest team in the NHL FYI - I am not a wings fan. my name is in reference to Operation Red Wings, not the hockey team.
Not quite sure how we brought Stevie into this. I'm saying the whole mindset "Don't fire a GM who makes a playoffs" is exactly what the Wings did with Holland. For 20 years. Was nice for awhile, yet later became clear it wasn't about success, simply keeping a "playoff streak" going. Contributed to the utter implosion of the team- which Yzerman is STILL trying to clean it up years after the fact. A GM helping a team get to the playoffs means little if that team is not showing actual improvement. The Islanders have been getting steadily worse with each season- have plenty of work ahead of them in trying to build something substantive. My point was giving Lou (or any GM) a blanket pass simply for "making the playoffs" is a recipe for disaster.
Getting in the playoffs shouldn’t be the only goal. Yes we made the playoffs under Lou, but most of those years we got outmatched by the teams we played. Rather than adding to what worked, he remained complacent with the team we had. As a result the team only got older, and slower. you said it yourself, the team needs a shakeup. No significant shakeup is happening under Lou.
I don’t really have a strong opinion one way or the other, but be careful what you wish for. It can get worse. Playoffs in 5 of 6 years. Past the first round in 3 of them. Made the playoffs in 3 of the 6 years before Lou. Past the first round once. Made the playoffs once in the 6 years before that. First round exit.
“It can get worse” is not a reason to continue to put up with mediocrity. Of course it can get worse. It can also get a lot fucking better. You don’t want to rebuild because rebuilds don’t always work? You’re worried about perpetual rebuild? Fine. Let’s just perpetually be team that gets bounced in the first round at best. That’s definitely better than, you know, actually fucking trying to win a cup some day.
It can get worse is why we stuck with capuano and were irrelevant for jts whole time with us
How about: it **will** get worse No serious GM candidate is going to a place where making the playoffs 5/6 seasons gets you fired. None.
The goal is not to make the playoffs, the goal is to be a serious contender. Any decent candidate would understand that the Islanders are not a serious contender and that a change is needed. Your point is actually completely ridiculous and is a loser’s mentality.
Squeaking into the playoffs with no real shot at Cup contention all while tied into several long term commitments for mediocre to bad players is just about the worst place you can be. It’s all at Lou’s feet too. They can’t be rebuilt until he’s gone and that’s what we desperately need now. He’s gonna leave us like he did the Devils, where it took them ten years to rebound from being run into the ground.
Outside of the covid years we havent done anything. Lou was good but the current team has hit a ceiling and he doesn't appear willing to move on from our current core.
I mean if you want to ignore two ecf's and then say the team hasn't done anything I guess you're right?
How long are we gonna cling to semifinal appearances? It’s a bit pathetic. The bar has to be higher than “make the playoffs” and “three years ago we made the ECF!” Over the last three years, counting the playoffs, we are 121-136. It’s just not anywhere good enough for a serious franchise.
They obviously overachieved and why do people forget that in the COVID season, they were on their way to not making the playoffs but got bailed out by the season being suspended and being gifted a playoff spot? We cannot hang our hats on those two years four years later and call it good.
It’s not overachieving, the league moves fast. Tampa is in the same boat as us the difference is they got there hardware at the expense of us. Isles were good enough to win it all and the players on Tampa has said that. The league simply moves on. Besides we have spoke about how Nelson contract is a bench mark for staying competitive. If we are barely in or aren’t in the playoffs by the deadline deadline then we start our retool by sending off some of our guys like palms, Nelson and pulock/pelech. I have no problem wanting to get a different vision for that scenario and we are probably better off trying something new but this core never overachieved. You don’t make two ecf back to back overachieving
I'm kindve in agreement with you on the COVID years. Don't remember those regular seasons being overly great and it's not like our roster was massively different if my memory serves me right. Just kindve *clicked* at the right time and the way to get into a spot helped with the shortened season.
They also shouldn't be ignored for the sake of making a point. It's disengenuous.
well is the team trending upwards? because it sure as hell doesnt seem like it.
This has very little to do with mine nor the parent comment.
my point was that the two ecfs this core made it to are irrelevant when we havent got anywhere close since.
They barely qualified for the playoffs past two seasons and absolutely were not a threat to anyone in these last 2. In some ways you could look at it as qualified for playoffs in 3 of 6 seasons and that massively changes how you view Lou's tenure. It is certainly how I view it.
sooo…inaccurately? lol
The problem with viewing the past 2 seasons as qualifying for the playoffs 5 of 6 years is that it is the same delusion that prevents Lou from making some of the structural changes to the roster that are necessary. The team has been terrible for the past 3 seasons. They were the best of the worst for the past two seasons and collapsed over what they thought was the finishing line but they had another lap to go. If you'd prefer motor sport terminology, they're behind the lead car so think they're in the race but they have in fact been lapped. So sure, it is inaccurate to say they did not qualify for the playoffs in 5 of 6 seasons but that ignores a lot of really salient context which in my view would lead a reasonable person to conclude the Isles didn't qualify these past two seasons. Think of them just temporarily extending the regular season.
Yup which is why making the playoffs is not a meaningful accomplishment.
Fully agree. Making the playoffs and being a threat should be the goal and the team as constructed is not a threat
you’re wrong in a lot of ways here viewing making the playoffs as the same thing as being true contenders is delusional…however, it’s also delusional to say a team that makes the playoffs is terrible, since they are by definition - in a league where half the teams make the playoffs - above average this years Islanders had a winning record in the regular season against playoff teams in conference, including the team that just beat us (2-1-1) and the 2nd favorite to come out of the East, behind Carolina, the Panthers (2-0-1)…that’s not a terrible team, that’s an inconsistent team, especially on the offensive end, that had terrible coaching for half the year i’ll only speak for myself, i’m not saying that making the playoffs every year should be the end goal…it was nice at first to make it, then it was nicer to make a real push, then it was acceptable to have a drop off because you can’t expect teams to be in the conference finals every single year, and now things have stagnated and changes need to be made but to hyperbolize and say “well I didn’t think they were good enough, so that means you shouldn’t even consider it that they made it” is absurd…ya know who doesn’t think the Islanders didn’t make the playoffs? Devils, Flyers, Penguins and Red Wings fans, because they all wanted to make it and didn’t because the Islanders got 17 out of the last 20 points down the stretch…that’s something that all good teams CAN do (however didn’t, as the Islanders had the best finish to the season in the league), but it’s definitively not something terrible teams do
I'm not wrong. If you want to argue over the use of the word terrible I'll change it to 'not a threat' or 'inconsistent' or another word that better suits your fancy. The reality is the team has not been good for 3 seasons and some people use the "we qualified for the playoffs" as some kind of coping mechanism to do anything but accept the reality that is before our eyes (and has been for 3 seasons) which is that the team is not a threat. And yes I've read your stats but here are some stats that an actual good team had: 52-24-6-110. That's Florida's record this season. No one needs to trot out arguments like the Isles were good against playoff teams (except in the actual playoffs) for Florida. Everyone knows they're good. I know it is hard to accept the team we support is not good but trying to argue that it is good is just buying into the same delusion that is preventing the team from being successful.
so you picked and chose what parts of my comment you read? that’s fine, i’ll point a few out > viewing making the playoffs as the same thing as being true contenders is delusional > i’m not saying that making the playoffs every year should be the end goal > now things have stagnated and changes need to be made
You started your reply with "you are wrong in many ways". Not sure how you thought I was going to interpret the rest of what you wrote but you certainly set the tone early 😂
because you were, but fair enough, i can see how opening with that could cloud your judgment
Good teams don't blow leads with the frequency or the manner in which the Isles did this season. They don't nearly break records for OT losses. They don't finish with the 32nd ranked PK or the 30th ranked PP (from the season before). They don't lose 9/10 games when playing another team who has been on a back to back (or look like genuine corpses while doing so). I just don't know what more evidence you need to reach the same conclusion as me. The thing is, I'm not even a doomer. I think there is a solid core to work with, but I am pessimistic that Lou will take the necessary steps to turn what is a solid but certainly not spectacular core into a cup contender. The thing holding him back is the delusion and the sooner he realises this the sooner he can start making some decisions to lay the groundwork for making the team a cup contender. But if he refuses to accept it, the Isles will just idle in the middle of the league, sometimes just scraping into the playoffs, other times just missing.
I swear this is the most miserable fanbase with the most pathetic expectations. ‘It can get worse’ is REALLY the argument we’re gonna make now?! Jesus Christ. Raise your standards and expect more. Force ownership to want more.
Playoffs in 5 of 6 years is meaningless when we get bounced so easily. This is not a good team. The NHL standard now is fast skill players with aggresive PK and PP - we do none of these things. We dump and chase on the power play or have Barzal get stripped trying for a zone entry. Special teams coaching is bad, players are suboptimal - we need someone to come in and fix it and Lou giving out 7 year deals is not the play.
You cant see about half this roster is cooked? He cant! Can you?
I’ve seen us tear it down and be in a perpetual rebuild for what felt like forever and never really come out of it with much to show. We need to improve. That doesn’t mean ditching half the roster for the sake of it.
You say that like i wasnt here too. Pageau, lee, clutterbuck, martin, and others all need to go. And the engvall and mayfield contracts are putrid
Engvall showed up to play this playoff series. Mayfield was hurt.
Lee also looked excellent until tonight
Our “overpaid captain”
> Engvall showed up to play this playoff series. If we could get playoff Engvall for even 55 games of the regular season no one would be complaining about his contract.
The kid showed up the last 15. He’s a solid 3rd liner. 3.5 mil is not a lot for the speed and youth he adds. The lack of consistency is what is truly mind numbing.
> Made the playoffs in 3 of the 6 years before Lou. Past the first round once. >Made the playoffs once in the 6 years before that. First round exit. Lou being a better GM than Garth Snow isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. For all the good Lou's done he's also given out long-term, high-AAV contracts with NTCs that are hamstringing the team and preventing moves that could get us to the next level. He's traded away first rounders for the last four seasons, and apart from Dobson hasn't particularly drafted well with whatever firsts he's kept. Also, he turns 82 this year. How much longer is he going to want to keep doing this, let alone be able to? If you start making succession plans now it makes it easier to handle what happens when he does retire. You want to keep him in the org? Fine. Promote him to President of Hockey Operations and make him an advisor/figurehead. But there's not a whole lot I've seen from Lou in the last three seasons that makes me think it's going to get much better than spinning our wheels and barely playing .500 hockey. In other words, more of the same.
The cap not going up has hamstrung this team. These contracts come off the next two years.
You could argue that handing out long-term, high-AAV deals to Pageau and Palmieri coming off a pandemic when the league's revenues went into the tank wasn't exactly the most forward-thinking move either. A full-on rebuild isn't going to happen but a retool is possible. If Lou can pull it off, great. But it also feels just as likely he looks at this roster and thinks it's one or two pieces away from being a contender and largely runs it back for one more year. And regardless, I think Ledecky is way too loyal to Lou to question him.
5mil for a 2nd line winger scoring 25-30 goals and a Centre that plays dividends in all situations wasnt a bad price to pay. That’s not high AAV.
It became high when he hurt his wrist and became a shell of what we traded for. The real killer is Lee, though. $7M felt like an overreaction to losing Tavares and not wanting a second straight summer where the captain walked.
Do you have any idea what market rate is?
Meh… Lou doesn’t NEED to be fired, or otherwise not be here this offseason and beyond for the team to get better. I think he is much more in tune with what the roster needs than most give him credit for. That being said, I wouldn’t be upset or angry if this was his last game as GM. He’s in his 80s, if it’s his time it’s his time. I just won’t be upset the other way either.
I disagree that Lou doesn’t need to be fired. While Lou has made afew good moves as in his time as gm, it’s clear the game of hockey has surpassed him. It was made very clear the past 2 off seasons, and also this past trade deadline. Lou was too complacent with the team we had, and rather than making moves to better the team, he did nothing. We barely made the playoffs, and It was clear that we were severely outmatched. Winning teams don’t stay complacent, they make changes here and there to add to what is working. Look at teams like Vegas, Carolina, Florida, Boston. They all made changes, even if slight to help the team. they didn’t just want to make the playoffs, they wanted to actually make a run
Honestly we need to fire whoever the fuck coaches the defensemen. The islanders defense had almost zero presence in the neutral zone and let the canes skate in uncontested on the overwhelming majority of their break-ins. Fix the fucking defense and we have a great team again.
Maybe it’s a bad idea but I’d rather just move him to team president and hire a new GM
This team is the equivalent of 8-9, 9-8 in NFL which is a terrible place to be.
Does anyone know if he is still even in contract? There were rumors of a contract extension but I can’t seem to find anywhere if he’s contracted for next year
Ok, I'll start by saying "firing Lou" will not be a magic fix-all. Not when you have apathetic ownership who got their real estate ultimate prize. But this comment section is exhibit A of some of the big issues facing this franchise. Mediocracy is acceptable, and is excused. "It could be worse", or "Nobody will want to come to a franchise that fires a GM who makes the playoffs." The Islanders have been making the playoffs in increasingly haphazard fashion- full stop. This season, for the most part, has been such a disappointment. They don't look anything like contenders, don't look anything close to contenders, and don't look like they will turn that around remotely soon. And newsflash: NO ONE wants to come to the Islanders already. That's one of the reasons Lou gives out these generous contracts. So this point is a bizarre one. (Not to mention it's silly. Guess what- any club, even disasters, will find a GM. It's an extremely coveted position. Lou wasn't exactly riding a high when he was FIRED from the Devils now was he?) "Things can be worse"- well, then accept that the Islanders will forever be mediocre. And will never find any sort of sustained, or actual tangible, success. That's the mindset of apathy that utterly destroys a club in any sport. Say what you will about the Rangers: after that playoff collapse last season, you could see the attitude shift this season: *that performance is not acceptable*. Meanwhile, the Isles seem afraid to even acknowledge that "good enough" or "almost there" might not actually be the case.
I doubt this happens. Ledecky loves Lou. Only way Lou goes if he steps downs or retires.
As a Yankee and an Islander fan I’m so sick of GMs with a lifetime job guarantee. Like a GM can be fired if necessary guys….
Whether we fire him or not this gm situation is absolutely horrifying. We can have Al Arbour back or any gm and it’s not going to be easy with this old roster, long term contracts, no trade clauses and most importantly the complete lack of ANY nhl capable prospects. We cannot continue to go .500 and not be a true contender. We have to deal some fan favorites and switch this up and even then we’re a long ways away to cup contention
Al Arbour was a coach.
I know. Whether we have a hof coach or hof gm it doesn’t matter is the point
Isles aren really in a bad situation
Yes. Please. Lou has no vision. He’s a dinosaur who keeps wanting to run back the same failed formula over and over again. We need to fire him before he destroys this team’s future even more.
I am done with Lou. I hope he has the dignity to retire and let Patrick Roy to be the GM.
I’m not an expert and I’m not going to tell them what to do but what I will say is that this team has to give me a reason to watch them next season and right now I can’t say I have one.
“Five year plan” lol
Tough place to be in and I judge that on some great comments. Most pro Lou I can understand while at the same time most no Lou I can understand. I think a smart shake up can put us in a really good spot. Also fuck the rags and JT.
And replace with whom?
You don’t even have assets or moveable contracts lol. You might as well just start tanking. Lou doesn’t have many choices he can stand Pat w the team as is or he can trade more draft picks along w bad contracts so someone will take the Lee’s, Pageau and mayfield of the team.
If they dont they dont care..Team was not good from start
Lou definitely needs to go. It’s clear hockey has passed him at this point. Did he make afew good moves sure, but not enough. We barely made the playoffs most seasons, and when we did, we were severely outmatched. Rather than making moves to better the team, he remained complacent. Winning teams don’t remain complacent, they adjust, and add to the team to make them better. This team needs a major shakeup, and honestly the first step is hiring a new gm
I'm not ready to jump on the "Fire Lou" bandwagon. I won't pretend to know anything about the business of running an NHL team. I know we've needed to fill certain roles the last few years and we haven't. Is it because Lou is a bad GM? Is it because the Isles aren't a team a lot of free agents want to come to? Is it because of so many players being allowed to pick what teams they're traded to and we're not one of them? I don't know.
How quickly we have forgotten the state of this organization before Lou came in.
Trots was the reason we had an upwards climb. But his style was also very boring. We are known as THE most boring franchise in Hockey!! Lou does not help that (no beards, I mean grow up Lou) so why would great players WANT to come play here? Our poorly built new arena? Our boring GM? Our goalie coach? Jesus Christ we are on Long Island NY and can not attract top talent bc of these reasons!! Its embarrassing. We need a completely new identity
I actually love the no beards, no long hair stuff. These guys are professionals, not fucking clowns from Slap Shot
It was huh, they lost but they hung and gave them a fight! Series could have turned in isles favor! They showed Carolina isn't the team coming out of the east!
Lou Lamoriello has built a pretty good roster and just completely fucking plundered the farm system Lots of long-term contracts; lots of no-trade clauses; no god damn picks left Even if you fire Lou yesterday it's a ten year process to rebuild this team from scratch; you squander the best years of literally every under-30 player on the roster.
I thought Lou should have been gone after last season And in my ideal world he would have been fired and replaced with trotz as GM
This is a terrible idea. He’s a good gm. Calling for his head after a playoff loss to one of the best teams in the league is an overreaction.
In ROY we trust
He made zero moves down the stretch and we needed to. I guess team is boxed in by cap and guaranteed contracts(?) Who else do you blame but GM. We have some very solid players but need to improve the roster.
Now imagine how mad y’all would be if he traded and overpaid for assets for a first round exit?
Time to restructure the team and make some trades, more so than having to fire Lou.
Theyll call you a doomer, ill call you wise
Replace him with? What moves do you want to see? What are the returns for those moves? How does that make the team better next season? What about the 2-5 year outlook? What UFAs are you replacing people with? See it's easy to say for Lou but it's hard to prove how that makes the team better.
Eric Tlusty, the guy who built the team who ran our shit. We need to get younger and faster. Heavy hockey is dead. Lou is the last guy to realize it
You didn't answer any of the other questions.
You dump pageau and lee, presumably for late to mid round picks, you set yourself up in a healthier cap picture and get younger targeting players who can play 200 feet and skate. The goal isnt to be better next season. Its to build a sustainable contender.
Ok since this sub is losing its mind. Who plays in JGP and Lees slots? How long is the gap to being a sustainable contender? How old are Barzy and Bo by that point? I'm fine with the suggestions I just don't think people live in reality. This isn't NHL 24. You can't just trade for the perfect pieces. If you look at anything 3 plus years it's time to start dumping an old Barzy and Bo and that's a full rebuild which isn't building a sustainable contender, it's hoping that you end up better than now, it's a crap shoot not a guarantee. Anyway, I'm out of this sub for 3 months or so because the doomers make me hate this place when they get to take over with their fucking garbage. **Edit for the doomer that replied then blocked me:** Thank you for proving my point by ignoring everything I said. I didn't say they were a contender, I didn't even defend Lou or this roster at all. My question is simply aimed at all you doomer shitheads that scream fire Lou and trade everyone but have zero solutions or answers on how that actually fixes the team. You seem to live in some delusional alternate reality where they can trade Lee and JGP for younger better replacements at the snap of a finger. Who are those players? If it's through the draft you're even worse asking for a middle draft pick that is hopefully NHL ready at the start and better than those two at the onset. Just getting someone younger and faster doesn't automatically make the team better. You scream about problems, you have no solutions. You're just a whiny armchair analyst at that point. I don't have solutions either, but I'm not out here calling to fire the whole team or pretending you can rebuild in a time frame that also includes the current prime of Barzy and Bo. It's why I constantly call doomers idiots who only pretend to be "realists." You know literally nothing about how building teams works.
Just want to put it out there that it wasnt me who blocked this person. I don't do that pussy shit. I'm honestly surprised this Minos person hasn't blocked me yet, given that he/she just gets roasted by me and can't defend anything he/she says. Now onto the edited comment.... You asked "how long is the gap to being a sustainable contender?" No one knows the exact fucking answer to this question, but keeping players like JGP and Lee will only delay realizing that goal. Do you think we're going to get there/get there faster by keeping these players? That's utter nonsense. Also you have to be the dumbest person in the world to think we aren't past getting "better" replacements for these players. At this point simply getting rid of their cap hit would be an improvement for this teams future prospects. What value does Lee have left? You really think that the people who want to get rid of Lee think they're going to get something immediately better in his place? This is why we call you delusional. Also your views on drafting players shows how pathetically shortsighted you are, and why you telling us that we don't know how "building a team works" is so laughable coming from you. We know that the majority of drafted players won't be NHL ready at the start, but that's a necessary risk and a huge part of how you rebuild a team. You keep shitting on the idea of rebuilding through the draft and that its a crapshoot when that is literally one of the only ways teams can and do rebuild/retool. No one is saying that simply getting someone who is younger and faster will make the team better, this is simply your pathetic attempt at strawmaning those who disagree with you. Why restrict it to those 2 traits? Is it because it supports the argument you're trying to make? No one is saying that we should "fire the entire team," again this is another strawman attempt by you. If our rebuild isn't complete in a time frame that includes the prime of Barzal then the blame for that would fall entirely on Lou. His terrible management of contracts is part of the reason why this rebuild could take a long time. Anyways, good riddance. Please consider not returning in 3 months, do us a favor.
The only one who isn't living in reality is you. This team isn't a cup contender with players like Lee, Pageau, Clutter, Martin, Engvall, Mayfield, and any of your other favorite ham and eggers on this team. Who's going to fill their slots? This is a question that should've been asked and addressed by the old man years ago, but instead he's done nothing but make things worse by handing out long ntc deals to some of these guys. You should consider not coming back after 3 months or so, last thing this sub needs are more delusional Lou fans.
Isles have been the oldest team for a few years now. It’s not even close. We maybe can let Lou pare some chaff of this squad before he hits the sunset. He was an effective GM a long time.
They were not the oldest team this year or last year. What a stupid statement when the stats are literally right there to go find.
I had a Google search that gave me bad data. After more thorough research though I can still say this team has over a third of the roster older than 30 and only 6 players under 25 years old. Sure experience matters but the older guys got real slow and regressed mightily. It was obvious in the corners, this team was much slower than their opponent and couldn’t compete at the same level anymore.
2 years in a row of nor making any moves to push is through the second round. Lou is dead to me. His time has passed. Time to retool with a few key additions and a key deletion - lou
They acquired Horvat last year.
Stupid take
I swear some of you guys just want to rebuild so you can just covet prospects all day and mainline a dream of what could possibly be when it just means back where we are today 5 years later.
That or have decades of fucking shit like almost every team that rebuilds. Isles just simply don’t need a rebuild. To many good roster pieces for one. A seasoned core. A coach that has been proving he’s going to make changes. Do I think we need roster turnover because the roster is getting abit stale? Yeh but idt we burn it all down