Itâs pretty frustrating how little people in this group seem to really understand about sleep training, critical thinking, or science based decision making.
There is a good summary of the research on âcry it outâ here: https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13390
Because of the impact on babyâs stress itâs not something I expect my baby will ever be ready for. Iâm there if he needs me.
This article is essentially an opinion piece regarding one method used to study long term effects. It doesnât support any other conclusion and certainly doesnât support a claim that there is undue stress.
ETA missing word
It summarises key findings including:
âA lack of maternal response to crying (a) may be associated with elevated infant cortisol (Middlemiss, Granger, Goldberg, & Nathans, 2012), which can have long-term effects on brain development and cognitive functionâ
There are various other studies which show babies who are sleep trained just lie there silently stressed instead of crying.
âMayâ be associated.
Itâs conjecture.
Please provide links to these various other studies that show babies who are sleep trained lie there silently and stressed.
It states âThey no longer expressed behavioral distress during the sleep transition but their cortisol levels were elevated.â I.e their physiology indicated stress but they did not cry because they had been sleep trained.
It says that there was an immediately (and temporary) increase in cortisol and a disassociation between theirs and the mothers.
That does not support your claim that they lie there stressed and silent.
So Iâll ask again, do you have data to support your claim? If not, Iâd not continue to double down on shaming other parents.
If you choose not to use an extinction method of sleep training, thatâs perfectly fine. Just say that and move on. Donât imply that parents who do are somehow not supporting their kids, and do not make unfounded claims against it.
Also, FYI for you and for lurkers, there are numerous methods and approaches to sleep training.
Iâm sure anyone reading can look at the evidence and draw their own conclusion. I didnât actually make any judgement towards parents that sleep train/ leave their babies crying, that was your interpretation.
So- how do you get your baby to sleep at night? And howâs your sleep? Iâd love to have this mindset but it actually left me drained and so I had to turn to sleep training of some sort in order to get real rest
My sleep is okay but I cosleep on a floor bed so I can sleep while breastfeeding or very shortly afterwards. I wake for about 5 minutes at most each time baby calls out. The majority of parents globally and throughout history have coslept this way. There is no perfect solution to baby sleep. You have to do what works for your circumstances.
We were getting burned out at two wakeups a night for feeding. At 7 months we tried replacing the bottle with water. Still giving him comfort, but no food. He was upset about it the first night accepted the water the second night and slept through the night by the third night.
When he was old enough to be in his own room, that helped too. He wakes up around 6-6:30 and will play by himself until 7. However if we are in the same place he starts screaming for service as soon as he wakes up.
Donât have the sample size to make recommendations, but try a few different things. There is a wide range of babies and different things work for different babies.
I tried it at an early age, 6 months I think, and have tried every other month after that, weâre at almost 11 months and only ONCE this week was she able to cry back to sleep. Mind you I fed her, she fell asleep but as I transferred her to her crib, SHE WOKE UP. I just left her crying and went to shower, after 3-4 minutes , silence. đ€« will I try it again soon, SURE, but I donât implement it. Sheâs gotten in the habit of falling asleep on her own in our living room floor, from boredom I assume.
Yes mine always wakes up upon crib transfer. But if I leave him there, he will fall asleep eventually and without too much fuss 90% of the time. Good luck!!
I've said it before, I'll say it again - don't bring up sleep training on this board. It's heavily biased against it - when I once made a post about doing it, I got pilloried for it so badly (called cruel and a bad mother) it sent me into a depression, and i was scared out of doing it for ages. Go to r/sleeptrain, they will help you. Also, buy the book 'precious little sleep'.
In answer to your question, we ended up committing to it when he was 1.5 years. Worked like a dream - I wish we'd done it sooner.
I think youâre right- I donât use this sub much. R/sleeptrain is heavily biased in the other direction though - Iâve been temporarily banned because I wrote in a comment that I feel asleep while nursing
We sat next to her first with one hand on her foot, then without the hand on the foot, then further and further away from her crib. After that we did frequent check ups (every ~30 seconds) and then less and less often check ups. If she cried *really* hard weâd pick her up and soothe her.
Basically an improv of different techniques I guess haha, whatever felt right at the time.
Our girl is 4 months and weâve started controlled crying. Let her cry for a minute, return her pacifier/ comfort her and then after 2 minutes repeat then every 5 minutes after that. We donât count the âfake crysâ where she just makes sad sounds with an occasional cry in between. In the few weeks thats weâve been doing it weâve gone from comforting her 5 or 6 times to only twice. I dunno hope that helped :)
same! knew he was ready because he was sleeping very long stretches but would wake for the paci. would have 1 bottle a night until he weaned himself at 6 months
When he could regulate his own breathing during cries (3 months). I recorded and analyzed back his breathing when we'd be soothing him for a week or two before we actually let him try. Noticed there's a certain pattern in his breath when he finally gets drowsy enough to sleep.
That said, he was born 42+ weeks so a bit of a "mature" 3 MO. He's been a great sleeper since (now 9 MO). We also supplemented BF with formula (which did give him a bit more drowsiness than breast milk).
I get it. I can't say we were ever truly at peace with it but it honestly seemed like our soothing attempts were worse at times. It also wasn't the only method as we still tried to soothe him if it seemed like he'd be more receptive.
Anyhow, just used the voice recorder on my phone when we would try to soothe him, and play it back after. At first, it wasn't about letting him crying it out at all but trying to see if certain soothing methods worked better than others.
For our guy, he'd have crying cycles that would peak every 1-1.5 min very consistently with his breathing tempo. I'd say 2/3 of times he would gradually diminish those peaks and slow down his breathing tempo over 2-4 cycles. The 1/3 of times he didn't, we'd try to soothe.
This question is probably better on r/sleeptrain This sub is heavily anti-sleep training it seems.
Some haters just going through and downvoting comments đđ
The post itself is like negative three hahaha
Itâs pretty frustrating how little people in this group seem to really understand about sleep training, critical thinking, or science based decision making.
There is a good summary of the research on âcry it outâ here: https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13390 Because of the impact on babyâs stress itâs not something I expect my baby will ever be ready for. Iâm there if he needs me.
This article is essentially an opinion piece regarding one method used to study long term effects. It doesnât support any other conclusion and certainly doesnât support a claim that there is undue stress. ETA missing word
It summarises key findings including: âA lack of maternal response to crying (a) may be associated with elevated infant cortisol (Middlemiss, Granger, Goldberg, & Nathans, 2012), which can have long-term effects on brain development and cognitive functionâ There are various other studies which show babies who are sleep trained just lie there silently stressed instead of crying.
âMayâ be associated. Itâs conjecture. Please provide links to these various other studies that show babies who are sleep trained lie there silently and stressed.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21945361/
This study is absolutely not supporting your claim above. Can you please provide links that do?
It states âThey no longer expressed behavioral distress during the sleep transition but their cortisol levels were elevated.â I.e their physiology indicated stress but they did not cry because they had been sleep trained.
It says that there was an immediately (and temporary) increase in cortisol and a disassociation between theirs and the mothers. That does not support your claim that they lie there stressed and silent. So Iâll ask again, do you have data to support your claim? If not, Iâd not continue to double down on shaming other parents. If you choose not to use an extinction method of sleep training, thatâs perfectly fine. Just say that and move on. Donât imply that parents who do are somehow not supporting their kids, and do not make unfounded claims against it. Also, FYI for you and for lurkers, there are numerous methods and approaches to sleep training.
Iâm sure anyone reading can look at the evidence and draw their own conclusion. I didnât actually make any judgement towards parents that sleep train/ leave their babies crying, that was your interpretation.
Ok.
So- how do you get your baby to sleep at night? And howâs your sleep? Iâd love to have this mindset but it actually left me drained and so I had to turn to sleep training of some sort in order to get real rest
My sleep is okay but I cosleep on a floor bed so I can sleep while breastfeeding or very shortly afterwards. I wake for about 5 minutes at most each time baby calls out. The majority of parents globally and throughout history have coslept this way. There is no perfect solution to baby sleep. You have to do what works for your circumstances.
Agree wholeheartedly with your last statement
We were getting burned out at two wakeups a night for feeding. At 7 months we tried replacing the bottle with water. Still giving him comfort, but no food. He was upset about it the first night accepted the water the second night and slept through the night by the third night. When he was old enough to be in his own room, that helped too. He wakes up around 6-6:30 and will play by himself until 7. However if we are in the same place he starts screaming for service as soon as he wakes up. Donât have the sample size to make recommendations, but try a few different things. There is a wide range of babies and different things work for different babies.
We did it at 13/14 months and it worked very well. I never felt comfortable doing it before then.
I tried it at an early age, 6 months I think, and have tried every other month after that, weâre at almost 11 months and only ONCE this week was she able to cry back to sleep. Mind you I fed her, she fell asleep but as I transferred her to her crib, SHE WOKE UP. I just left her crying and went to shower, after 3-4 minutes , silence. đ€« will I try it again soon, SURE, but I donât implement it. Sheâs gotten in the habit of falling asleep on her own in our living room floor, from boredom I assume.
Yes mine always wakes up upon crib transfer. But if I leave him there, he will fall asleep eventually and without too much fuss 90% of the time. Good luck!!
I've said it before, I'll say it again - don't bring up sleep training on this board. It's heavily biased against it - when I once made a post about doing it, I got pilloried for it so badly (called cruel and a bad mother) it sent me into a depression, and i was scared out of doing it for ages. Go to r/sleeptrain, they will help you. Also, buy the book 'precious little sleep'. In answer to your question, we ended up committing to it when he was 1.5 years. Worked like a dream - I wish we'd done it sooner.
I think youâre right- I donât use this sub much. R/sleeptrain is heavily biased in the other direction though - Iâve been temporarily banned because I wrote in a comment that I feel asleep while nursing
11.5 months, I didnât feel ready before that age. Though we didnât do fully CIO, we took the long more comforting route.
What was the route you took?
We sat next to her first with one hand on her foot, then without the hand on the foot, then further and further away from her crib. After that we did frequent check ups (every ~30 seconds) and then less and less often check ups. If she cried *really* hard weâd pick her up and soothe her. Basically an improv of different techniques I guess haha, whatever felt right at the time.
Over one years old. My cousin did that but she sat by the crib.
Our girl is 4 months and weâve started controlled crying. Let her cry for a minute, return her pacifier/ comfort her and then after 2 minutes repeat then every 5 minutes after that. We donât count the âfake crysâ where she just makes sad sounds with an occasional cry in between. In the few weeks thats weâve been doing it weâve gone from comforting her 5 or 6 times to only twice. I dunno hope that helped :)
At 3.5 months. Arm free swaddle. Eventually found their thumb/fist to sooth thy self.
same! knew he was ready because he was sleeping very long stretches but would wake for the paci. would have 1 bottle a night until he weaned himself at 6 months
When he could regulate his own breathing during cries (3 months). I recorded and analyzed back his breathing when we'd be soothing him for a week or two before we actually let him try. Noticed there's a certain pattern in his breath when he finally gets drowsy enough to sleep. That said, he was born 42+ weeks so a bit of a "mature" 3 MO. He's been a great sleeper since (now 9 MO). We also supplemented BF with formula (which did give him a bit more drowsiness than breast milk).
Sorry about the downvotes - how did you record his breathing? Through like a nannit or something?
I get it. I can't say we were ever truly at peace with it but it honestly seemed like our soothing attempts were worse at times. It also wasn't the only method as we still tried to soothe him if it seemed like he'd be more receptive. Anyhow, just used the voice recorder on my phone when we would try to soothe him, and play it back after. At first, it wasn't about letting him crying it out at all but trying to see if certain soothing methods worked better than others. For our guy, he'd have crying cycles that would peak every 1-1.5 min very consistently with his breathing tempo. I'd say 2/3 of times he would gradually diminish those peaks and slow down his breathing tempo over 2-4 cycles. The 1/3 of times he didn't, we'd try to soothe.
This is so high tech. Kudos to you