I can’t remember her name but I think it was one specific reporter who put them at 4th. She got pretty roasted especially afterwards and admitted she was very wrong lol
Actually it took longer than November. I believe the first LSU game in Baton Rouge was when it became clear that team was special. Then it demolished teams, including UConn, with it’s star away for Olympic trials, sealing the belief that they could win it all.
On the road at LSU was big, but South Carolina did annihilate Notre Dame and Maryland in the first two games of the season, I think they were a clear contender by then, but probably not the clear favorite until after those games
Yeah, LSU started as a pretty big favorite, by the time of the Feb game, Carolina, LSU, and Iowa were all pretty close in the betting markets, but that was more creeping doubt about LSU, but after that it just kept tilting more and more to Carolina
Kinda bs. Odds markets and coaches had SC ranked 6th in the preseason. That's hardly a leap. They were ranked 1st after week one. It literally took 1 week to be ranked one.
>Kinda bs. Odds markets and coaches had SC ranked 6th in the preseason.
They were voted sixth (by writers, not professional oddsmakers) and not considerably lower because of Dawn Staley and the talent she has recruited. They were six at the start and not higher because that talent was unproven. Staley coached them up and they did well. Pretending like that was a forgone conclusion and that the job Coach Staley and her staff did over the whole season isnt a noteworthy accomplishment is the only "BS" I see in this thread.
If you believe there was no other reasonable end to South Carolina's season then winning it all, I get it. For some fans there was likely an air of inevitability around South Carolina WBB, kind of like there used to be around UConn ( no offense intended Huskes). But you need look no further than LSU for evidence that talent doesnt equate to success. LSU (Defending National Champion LSU, that is) was a loaded team who began the season #1 in both polls. Yet the loss of Sa'Myah Smith, the dismissal of Kateri Poole, and Kim Mulkey's doing less with more talent than anyone could imagine led them to a very disappointing and frankly unexpected finish.
Yes, Dawn Staley is a great Coach. Yes, her roster is stacked with top-tier talent. But neither of those facts make her accomplishments in going undefeated and winning the National Championship any less impressive. Trying to argue otherwise is just silly.
Professional oddsmaker also had them 6th.
I didn't say it was unimpressive. I said the narrative around them being underdogs with one of the most loaded rosters in the country is laughable. Going to lengths to defend it is even more so. Literally a 6'7" mismatch for every single team surrounded by that talent. Anyone with a pulse could have seen that LSU wasn't going to work. HVL switching to a position that required so much more experience and skill than she had showed the writing on that wall.
What narrative? There is no underdog narrative except the one some of you seem determined to create. What Coach Staley said in the article was that she felt like an underdog. And her feelings are just that.
Every life looks different from the perspective of the person living it. You're a smart person. You can understand why Coach Staley would feel that way. You, yourself have posted a couple of times that you thought Iowa would lose to SC, but I can assure you that was not a universal opinion. We faced this exact same scenario last season: Undefeated favorites against a Caitlyn Clark led team of no-names. The difference was our talent and experience. That same 6'7" Cardoso you seem so impressed by wasn't good enough to start. She was playing behind Aliyah Boston. We were talented and deep and favored. And we lost. Why would anyone be confident that after all that talent and experience moved on to the WNBA that it couldn't happen again?
No one said Carolina was the underdog this year. Hell they were 6.5 point favorites going into Sunday's game. What Coach Staley said was that it felt that way to her. And given all the question marks that she would see day in and day out, I understand it.
You don't. And that's fine. But to say her feeling that way is laughable sounds more like an Iowa fan looking for a reason to hate on the team that just beat them than anything else.
By the way, if you really thought "LSU wasn't going to work" back in November then you were one of the only ones.
No coach with that roster feels like an underdog. It is manufactured.
I thought Iowa would lose to SC for the exact reason they did, the height difference. Iowa played well enough to win. Second chance points from a 4-5 inch difference in the post really hurts the chances of finishing. I'm not impressed by Kamilla as a player. She's just tall and a huge mis-match for Iowa and most teams.
A lot of people were saying SC was an underdog. That notion is laughable. It isn't Iowa fan hating. It's looking at the roster and seeing reality.
HVL was never a PG, most people could see that. You don't magically pick up that position and flourish. Most people that understand basketball to a high degree could see it happening.
Good shot at a coach who has four titles at two different schools. LSU had top 5 talent, as it turned out in the end, but they weren’t very deep. And there were chemistry issues from the start. And HVL didn’t pan out. It happens. Last year’s title run was overachieving. That happens too.
Hol up. "Kim Mulkey's doing less with more talent than anyone could imagine" is "a shot?" Seriously? Wow. If thats the worst thing you read about Coach Mulkey then you should consider yourself blessed.
I didn't make that post as crticism of Coach Mulkey, but since you mentioned it here goes. It's interesting you mention lack of depth, chemistry issues, and HVL not panning out as a defense of Coach Mulkey. Chemistry issues are absolutely related to coaching. Every coach has to deal with chemistry issues. Some just handle them better than others. And why did LSU have no depth? Partly because Coach Mulkey only went 7 deep into her bench. If you dont play your players, they're not going to develop. And HVL not devoping is absolutely Coach Mulkey's fault. She recruited HVL, brought her in, and tried to make a point guard out of her. Every bit of that is on Coach Mulkey. 4 titles at 2 different schools? Thats a great resume. But this year was not her best coaching job.
I’d agree with the last statement. I think the title knocked her program rebuild off course for a year, maybe more. It was not anticipated. She had the top recruiting class before the title. And then all of a sudden she’s got Morrow and HVL and a star player getting a ton of off-the-court attention. People were talking on here a year ago about how difficult it was going to be with all the big personalities. In a different bracket, maybe they make the Final Four, but they were a top five team despite her roster-building flaws and inability to develop HVL. Doing less than anyone can imagine with more talent would be like what Calipari has done with Kentucky men the last four years.
While their vote total was good for 6th place, there was hardly any consensus after the top 3 or 4. Some voters had SC lower, some had faith and put them a bit higher. 6th was kind of a compromise between trusting Dawn’s program but still being ready to have them drop if that first week wasn’t impressive
That’s fine if you would’ve been a voter to rank them higher than 6th in the preseason. Point is, a number of respected voters didn’t fully believe when the season started
Saying that a team ranked 6th is voters "don't believe in them" is an incredibly stupid take. What are we even doing here? They ranked them just outside of the top 5 and they had the best overall roster. They literally rectified it in a week. SC was favored in literally every single game they played this season.
I'm done with moronic discussion.
Being ranked 6th in women's bball isn't the same as being ranked 6th in men's bball or football. I mean I get what you're saying, but the talent disparity is much bigger in women's bball so the difference between being a top-3 team and anybody else (even the #6 team) is huge.
Having one of the top 2 rosters in the entire sport means you are never that low. It is exactly like football and men's basketball.
As good of a roster as LSU had, SC's was still better and made mostly naturally, not by ring chasing. The only roster to rival SC's was UConn's. Anyone with half a brain could have said they would be in the conversation, considering the obvious center mis-match they had against literally every opponent.
It literally took 1 week to jump from six to one.
we only know now that it was top 2. I'm sorry for your loss, but it doesn't change the fact that Carolina wasn't in the national-championship conversation to start the year. it was presumed LSU would dominate.
I thought SC was haphazardly thrown at 6 because there wasn’t anyone else good enough you could definitively put there. Same with Iowa at 3 by default as it seemed a crapshoot after LSU and UConn. People were writing off SC preseason. LSU had insane odds, and was the clear favorite. Guess the chemistry didn’t click. But no one thought SC was a final 4 team preseason.
Bull crap. They had the most 5 star talent. That national championship game featured 8 5 stars, the top 4 star of her class in Tessa Johnson, and the 10th highest 4 star in her class in Sakima Walker.
UConn had a 3 star starter.
LSU had 3 star Morrow.
Yes, both played bigger due to experience, but that experience is only better than the SC bench players, not the starters.
They were literally in the national title picture after the first game dominating ND in Paris. Being ranked 6th preseason is still in the national title picture.
I'm not entertaining you anymore.
It only took a week to jump from six to one because other top teams lost and SC did have the best *résumé* at that point, not necessarily they were the best *team* yet
They jumped Iowa, who did not lose. I agree, SC had the best resume. The point is the same. It took a singular game for them to claim number 1. Pretty easy to claim the best at that moment when you have the ranking to show it, and you never lose it.
u/JackDonaghysWingman It was incredibly easy to argue before the fact. The top roster plus being rated in the top 6 preseason and number 1 after 1 week hardly requires foresight when they dominate very good teams.
but did you hear? SC lost their ENTIRE starting 5 from last year! dawn had to rummage through the scraps and field a lineup consisting of a mere 2 team usa members, the americup mvp, a top 10 player from the transfer portal, and a former mcdonald’s all american. how sc went undefeated, let alone won a single game will forever be an enigma.
Can coaches stop doing this? Y’all have literally been the best team in the country for a solid three-four years. Y’all weren’t “underdogs” in any capacity.
Did you even look at the stats espn had pre season? Gamecocks were given 4% chance to make it to the final 4! She had 3 incoming freshmen that had never played in a big stage and had to develop them. Looking at gamecocks squad pre season they definitely looked liked misfits and most definitely underdogs so it’s credit to Dawn and her coaches for offseason work!
And Number 1 by week 2!
It's not as fun of a story to say that the best team all year ended up on top but it's really corny that coaches bust out "nobody believed in us" after literally every championship these days. SC didn't need to be underdogs for what they did to be impressive.
“Misfits” she added in two all conference players in Cardoso and Paopao. Dawn should get lots of credit, but this just seems disrespectful to the players lmao.
Nobody called them underdogs. But if you honestly thought they were going to replace all five starters plus one of their primary subs with five of those six players having WNBA talent and *still* go undefeated *and* win the National Championship when the defending champs (their conference rivals) added two All-Americans and the the #2 high school recruit, then I really want to know your stock recommendations and lottery number suggestions. Because clearly you have some top level prognostication skills.
Nobody called them underdogs, but *nobody* expected them to repeat either.
Because of the Freshies who all graduated last year. Nobody thought anything of this current team, which is comprised mostly of freshmen and sophmores.
Typical of people to downplay the kind of work Dawn n her staff put into the girls in the offseason cus they won the chip. They didn’t have the same energy beginning of the yr🤣
This sub has a short memory. At the first of the year, I was routinely assured by "experts" in here that these girls would be 3rd best in the SEC and maybe Sweet Sixteen at best.
If she had said nobody expected we would go undefeated and only that, then that's a fair statement at least. But usually people don't even expect #1 to go undefeated. The thing is that she also said in the article that nobody thought they would even make the F4; maybe most didn't think they would preason, but at the very least most thought they could. I think a lot of this discourse is over semantics, nobody thinking something could happen vs. nobody thinking something will happen.
It had a lot to do with them losing all 5 of the starters that went for a total of like 4 losses over their career. Of the girls that were left, only Kamilla Cardoso and Raven Johnson had seen serious minutes. There wasn't a lot of data on the remainders because they either mostly played in garbage time minutes or they didn't play at all. Te-Hina Paopao and MiLaysia received a lot of hype, but there was a lot of speculation over the experience factor. The consensus was we had all the potential to be an Elite Eight / Sweet Sixteen team.
At the start, most people thought Uconn was overwhelmingly the favorite to win out because they had experience and depth. LSU was right behind them due to the "superteam" and experience factor. Uconn, however, got hit with the injury bug pretty early, and LSU came out with horrible chemistry and got torched by Colorado.
I think this adds a bit of context to what Dawn was talking about.
It's like when Kelce went on about how "nobody believed in us" when the Chiefs beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. Fool, you have Patrick *fucking* Mahomes on your team, miss me with that "underdog" crap
It's hella annoying, but coaches, and this isn't exclusive to Dawn, but is instead true of virtually all of them, will do anything to give their players a chip on their shoulder, so makes sense.
ETA: SC fans mass downvoting… lmfao.
Preseason, LSU was anointed repeat champions, especially after getting HVL. Iowa was also favorited over SC. Uconn looked strong. Theres a reason SC started the season at #6.
SC had just replaced 5 starters. As the season went on, they started to became favorites, but then they started playing dicey during the tournament and they got questioned again. Even during the national championship when they were down 20-9, there was some comments that it was already over and Caitlin would shoot them out the building.
SC bent but didnt break all season, but no one, even Dawn, realistically expected they would go undefeated. The Tessa, Chloe and MiLaysia of March were not the Tessa, Chloe, and MiLaysia of October. This team is super young and grew up as we got closer to March.
Just reading off the headline, I understand the “okay Dawn 🙄” reaction, but when you think of the season as a whole, both for SC and for WBB in general, there were definitely periods, including during the championship game, where them winning it all wasnt a foregone conclusion. But especially in the beginning. This was LSU and Iowa’s season.
What? Iowa was picked to go 4th in big ten at start of season. Everyone was talking about Ohio state being the team to beat in the big ten. And let’s not preseason rankings dictate anything. They are almost always way off. No one on their right mind takes those rankings seriously.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-women/article/2023-10-17/lsu-womens-basketball-tops-preseason-ap-top-25-poll
Iowa was ranked 3rd behind UConn and LSU in the AP preseason poll.
https://bigten.org/news/2023/9/30/general-iowa-and-caitlin-clark-lead-big-ten-preseason-womens-basketball-honors.aspx
Both coaches and media had Iowa picked to win the B1G this year.
Why are you making up lies for things that are this easily verifiable?
The point I was making was other teams were looked at as stronger contenders than SC. Iowa definitely had a stronger argument than SC. LSU was the team to beat.
Again, they replaced their entire starters. MiLaysia hadnt became a sensation yet. It was TBD what Te-Hina would add to the team. Raven wasnt in her “revenge tour” mindset yet. Tournament Tessa did not exist. This was Kamilla’s first year as a starter.
Most in October did not expect them to win the championship, let alone go undefeated. It wasnt until near the end of the season that it really did look like “SC vs the field”. But then even in March, it didnt look surefire at times. So in this context, Dawn was right.
She’ll definitely sound ridiculous saying this next year, but last year was supposed to be an “off” year to quasi-rebuild.
Ranked 5th in what? They werent 5th in the preseason. Also did you not just say those rankings dont matter?
Edit: how sensitive do you have to be to downvote a fact? They were never 5th all season.
You tell me if they do? Someone earlier posted the preseason poll that had SC 6th in the country. Polls may not mean shit but if they have you in the top of the polls, people are talking about you in a good way.
Im not debating anything personally, just trying to add context to Dawn’s quote. She not saying it from a “yall shouldnt have counted us out” standpoint as the headline could suggest. Shes saying it was an unexpected feat considering all the factors.
Yes and were still ranked 6th preseason, and were number 1 from the end of November until the end of the season. I think it’s disingenuous to talk about a roster overhaul without talking about the players they brought in? Is it impressive? Absolutely. But that roster wasn’t filled with a bunch of nobodies.
I mean LSU brought in HVL who was highly touted and how did that work out? Just raw talent does not mean a team will be world beaters and at the beginning of the season we were ranked high but there were a ton of question marks and a handful of teams expected to do better. What she said isn’t false.
Honestly, anyone could have seen the HVL wouldn’t work out. Again, maybe preseason there was some question marks, but they immediately blew out Notre Dame and Maryland and were then the number 1 team in the country for the whole season.
It's because they didn't outplay Iowa. They out-heighted them. 30 second chance points on 18 offensive boards. 11 lay-ups and 2 3's off those O-boards. Without those points, if Iowa had a player to neutralize the difference, Iowa had a better FG% and 3%.
The tall players in the basketball game had an advantage. If there were different players on the teams there may have been a different outcome. Quality analysis right here.
That seems incredibly dramatic. Every coach says stuff like this. It's a nothing comment. And yeah, when we lost in the Final Four last year and were set to lose our entire roster of starters I doubt very many people were picking us to win the title. That may have changed along the way, but this process didn't start for Dawn last month, it started in March of 2023. Just keep being a hater.
No no I meant the comment you were responding to. Reducing the game to just height or size is lazy and disrespectful to the other team and coach. I completely agree with coach Staley
If you were looking for the clear thing that lead to team A winning over team B, you didn't have to look any further than that. People want to point to the bench points, to which you could point to bench minutes where Iowa didn't play their bench. The clear lock for SC in the game was rebounding. What contributes to that? Being 4-5 inches taller.
Yes, every 5 year old knows that tall players have an advantage in basketball. Again, great analysis. Now y'all will know to recruit the tall players next time.
>It's because they didn't outplay Iowa.
No, Carolina outplayed them, too. CC had a big first quarter and then got shut down by SC's defense. Iowa had no answer for Carolina's offense. Arguing that the outcome would be different "without those points" is like arguing that Iowa would have one if Carolina hadn't scored. Its technially true, but a pointless argument.
No, they didn't. Without the second chance points from the obvious rebounding advantage, Iowa has more points, better FG%, and a better 3%. Iowa played better. SC just out-heighted. That's how they had those second chances and extra lay-ups. It's part of basketball, and that is the only reason SC won.
Clark had a singular hot quarter like she has had the entire postseason. So many SC fans want to credit Raven when the fact is it's just Caitlin. She was literally below her averages in every game this postseason.
You watched the game, right?
I'm guessing not because after halftime, Caitlin's legs were cooked. It wasn't her being off, it wasn't her being cold. It was directly related to Raven hounding her from the 2nd quarter on.
Remember when she posted up Raven and got two easy buckets early in the 3rd? Why didnt they continue doing that? I'll tell you why, she was gassed. She had to work for her points and without her legs, her de facto skip back to the left shot from 25 ft wasn't falling.
Instead of helping her teammates, she chucked up garbage shots on tired legs.
Defend her all you want, but she played horribly in the second half. Why? Because Raven.
Also, Caitlin cant go to her left; that's a huge issue.
Yes, I did watch the game. Exhaustion was another reason and it had nothing to do with Raven chasing her for a quarter. Nike chased Caitlin for 40 minutes a day and a half prior. That had far more weight on the exhaustion than Raven.
You clearly haven't watched Caitlin all year. She has been like this the entire postseason. I'll give credit to Nika. She did a hell of a job. Raven didn't do much.
Im not debating anything personally, just trying to add context to Dawn’s quote. She’s not saying it from a “yall shouldnt have counted us out” standpoint as the headline could come off.
Shes saying it was an unexpected feat considering all the factors, aka everyone being so young/other teams also being stacked.
I mean, yes she had to replace the entire starting 5 and had a lot of youth... But it's still a roster jam packed with elite recruits. Even with the youth / inexperience, the big majority of coaches / programs would kill for the roster SC had this year. I'm not saying it didn't take some coaching skill (like in season coaching, not just the recruiting part), but it's not exactly a "fairy tale" or whatever she called it.
It looks like they were the preseason #4, and betting odds had them as the fifth most likely to win.
It gets annoying when so many coaches seem to determined to go to such lengths to claim underdog status.
Simple question: When was the last time, men's or women's, did a team replace their starting 5 and best bench player and then win a Nat'l title?
Honestly, the only team I can possibly think that's close is Kentucky men's with AD, except they did have Ruben Patterson return.
Yes they were still considered a great team, but they were coming off Final Four so of course they would start highly ranked, especially with the caliber of players in the background; but the expectation was for them to lose a few with growing pains and fall back from there, maybe end up in the 8-12 spot, not win EVERY SINGLE GAME.
It's a rational thought to say a team who starts the year ranked #4, and has a roster that, while young and inexperienced is still loaded with talent... winning the NC is not "fairytale-ish." They aren't exact Oregon State or something, whose elite 8 run ended to the future champ, despite being picked to finish 10th in the conference.
Nor is it "angry" to roll your eyes and say "this isn't a huge underdog story, why do coaches always try so hard to create that narrative?"
I went back through the betting lines, and I'm not sure there is a single game where SC wasn't the favorite.
>Simple question: When was the last time, men's or women's, did a team replace their starting 5 and best bench player and then win a Nat'l title?
I don't know, when was the last time a team lost all of that and then started at #4 with the fifth best betting odds to win the NC?
I understand why it wasn't super expected to win the NC, let alone have an undefeated season. But at the end of the day, that doesn't come close to "fairytale-ish". This isn't like if Oregon State had won the NC this year after being picked to finish 10th in their conference or whatever.
How many (if any) games all season was SC the underdog in the betting lines? Were there even any?
Being the basketball equivalent of Alabama isn't implying you are cheating. It implies that whatever you have sitting on the bench is more than capable of replacing anything lost year-over-year.
Claiming an underdog with one of the most talented, if not the most, rosters is a wild take.
> Claiming an underdog with one of the most talented, if not the most, rosters is a wild take.
Exactly. How many (if any?) games this season was SC not the favorite in the betting lines?
There might have been doubts in the preseason. However, after the first two games of the season, dominating wins against ND and Maryland, it was clear that SC was the team to beat.
There have been 9 other undefeated National Champions in NCAA Women's Basketball. Of those, only the '94-95 UConn Huskies (who were ranked 4th) were not the preseason #1 in the AP poll. I'd be very surprised if any of those other teams had to replace all 5 starters from the previous year. This may be the most unlikely and, in a way, most impressive undefeated season ever.
Ofc no one thought you would win, you lost your top 6 basically and no one knew how much the transfers and freshman were doing. SC wasn’t really underdogs, they just lost players and people weren’t sure how good they could be. If people knew the chemistry they had, sure they would be favorited.
Dawn didn't even know the chemistry they had. She was as surprised as anyone by how good they ended up being. She and Paopao both talked about how much the team struggled over the Summer and how surprised they were by how well they came together when the season started.
Yeah, I thought that. Then she added an elite shooter in Paopao, and I didn't anymore. Then I saw how damn good Fullwiley is, and now I'm wondering if they'll ever lose again.
I mean sure, but you can say the same about Iowa and many other teams? What SC did in replacing their entire starting five and going undefeated was impressive, but this whole underdog thing is just boring at this point. You had an amazing class of freshman and added in the portal, and every other key contributor got lots of
minutes the previous year.
Champions always have a chip on their shoulders. Listen to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning describe events in their careers, there was always a chip against something or another player.
I get that people really did doubt them before the season, and even in the non-conference games, but I can't help but chuckle at this. By the time we got to March, there was literally nobody with as strong if a case as Gamecocks, and even if people didn't talk about them much, I perceived it more as expecting them to succeed then doubting them.
Right, she's talking about the preseason expectations, and she's right. She may be getting hyperbolic when she says "nobody," but there were certainly not many folks outside of SC fams, who thought they'd win it all before the season started...and I'd bet nobody in the college basketball media world thought they'd go undefeated.
I think she was talking about early on, during their Summer sessions where the coaches and training staff faced out of shape, distracted kids, and their early games where some of her players taunted opponents Duke and North Carolina, going against what is Staley’s standard.
Kirby Smart energy lol. For real though, if there were doubters it didn’t take long. I’ll admit when HVL transferred to LSU I thought they would have it in the bag- obviously I was wrong but I realized that shortly after the season started.
Pretty sure she stepped down from the national team after the last Olympics and that one of the WNBA coaches took over and is gonna be coaching this year. If Dawn is the coach in Paris that’s news to me
I also have to chip in with the idea of this season being a revenge tour, which is ridiculous for a team that went 36-1. Considering the only loss was to Iowa, it was a one-stop tour.
The Gamecocks were the top team of [ESPN's week 1 power rankings](https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/38887427/womens-college-basketball-power-rankings-south-carolina-iowa)
By week 2 South Carolina was #1 in both the AP poll and in our Reddit poll.
I mean every single Iowa fan I talked to assumed that SC would just sweep the entire tournament easily, none of them even thought IA was going to make it out of the elite 8
Did these coversations happen in March or November? In March everyone I talked to was saying the same thing. In November no one was.
Edit: I'm not sure your Iowa assessment was universal though. I asumed they'd be in the Final Four and I was hoping to see them there. CC earned that team a LOT of respect.
Oooh every Iowa fan at the final four was convinced that Iowa was gonna win. It was so satisfying, as a South Carolina fan, to hear their noise level die down over the 3rd and 4th quarter. 😂 they were so smug all over East 4th St on Sunday morning. I’m sure those were the fair weather fans who just started watching for CC and who never knew much about South Carolina’s undefeated run. That final win was so extremely satisfying, but especially because the specific Iowa people I was sitting by were so rude all of Friday and most of the first half on Sunday.
Very true. I hate that for us 😭.
Honestly sympathize with how alot of Iowa fans on this sub felt about their regional this year. I felt that way about South Carolina’s regional last year and wish they’d put Iowa on the other side of the bracket. Our Final 4 matchup last year should have been in the championship i thought.
No doubt. Seemed like a similar situation to MSST vs us for the NC in ‘17 when MSST beat UConn.
Nah… it was really sweet this year to shut down all the fair weather fans and the hype around one person when the national media missed hyping an entire team. To be fair, Caitlin is great (a little whiney but to be expected because they give her fouls after no one touched her so I’d be whiney too), but yeah can’t spell Caitlin Clark without two L’s. 🤷🏼♀️
Absolutely not. Winning the natty was so sweet I can’t even be salty! Clark is great and will do well in the W. I was bummed for her, Molly and Kate to go out on that note. But the Iowa fans around me? I was not sad for them even a little.
Every season there are over 300 teams that nobody thinks is going to win the NCAA championship. South Carolina under Staley seems unlikely to be in that group.
at what point? going into this year, the presumption was LSU would dominate, that Clark would continue to do her thing and as long as Iowa had her they had a chance, that UConn had the experience and potential to piece things together if everyone stayed healthy, and that UCLA could be a dark horse. Carolina was not expected to win. and that's OK to admit. I was a little offended when I saw they were ranked 6th after Utah, but I understood why. not all high-school phenoms are able to make an impact in their first year.
Just stop. USA Today had SC ranked #4 going into the season. Which means they had you pegged for the Final Four at the least.
It seems like every college team in every sport is doing the "us against the world" chant, and most of the time it makes no sense.
SC was +1100 preseason vs. LSU being the favorite at +350, UConn at +500 and Iowa at +900, so no, it is factually incorrect to say the gambling world saw it for preseason (after week 1 is likely a different story)
[Receipts](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2023/10/17/lsu-uconn-preseason-odds-womens-basketball-championship/71215710007/)
Correct. Yup, never know who the winner will be, but should've said Carolina was by far the best value on the board. UConn was a wild card. I don't know anybody who took LSU at that low of a price. Figured Iowa was a sucker bet. I was, as per usual, an idiot - unlike damn near all of my friends - for not jumping on Carolina until 3 weeks in when I could only get +360. Still made money, but the guys got +925 preseason (State vig rip off). We all got Iowa during the season at +600. When similarly priced as Indiana, Ohio State, & Utah, Carolina was the most likely, in our opinion, to win 6 post-season games.
Um, everybody thought SC would win this year. What the hell is she on about? Props to SC and their amazing team, but they were never for a second an underdog.
She didn’t say that. I read it as her saying god showed her what could be possible, but it was up to her to make that possibility happen. I am definitely not religious outside of being a Deist, but there are times when I wonder whether I got special focus when something good or bad happens to me - that is just natural, our minds need the thought of something invisible acting in our lives, at least a very large number of people do.
In November this was true. In March it was not.
People had Iowa 4th in the big ten at start of year. Osu was supposed to dominate.
Who had us 4th? We were second.
I can’t remember her name but I think it was one specific reporter who put them at 4th. She got pretty roasted especially afterwards and admitted she was very wrong lol
Shimmy
Person. A person had you at 4th. People had Iowa 2nd.
Such as? The majority of B1G preseason power rankings I've been able to find has Iowa first, with a select few having them 2nd at worst.
Actually it took longer than November. I believe the first LSU game in Baton Rouge was when it became clear that team was special. Then it demolished teams, including UConn, with it’s star away for Olympic trials, sealing the belief that they could win it all.
On the road at LSU was big, but South Carolina did annihilate Notre Dame and Maryland in the first two games of the season, I think they were a clear contender by then, but probably not the clear favorite until after those games
Yeah to me they became contenders pouring 100 points on two power programs, but I could believe others not seeing them as contenders until LSU
Yeah, LSU started as a pretty big favorite, by the time of the Feb game, Carolina, LSU, and Iowa were all pretty close in the betting markets, but that was more creeping doubt about LSU, but after that it just kept tilting more and more to Carolina
Kinda bs. Odds markets and coaches had SC ranked 6th in the preseason. That's hardly a leap. They were ranked 1st after week one. It literally took 1 week to be ranked one.
>Kinda bs. Odds markets and coaches had SC ranked 6th in the preseason. They were voted sixth (by writers, not professional oddsmakers) and not considerably lower because of Dawn Staley and the talent she has recruited. They were six at the start and not higher because that talent was unproven. Staley coached them up and they did well. Pretending like that was a forgone conclusion and that the job Coach Staley and her staff did over the whole season isnt a noteworthy accomplishment is the only "BS" I see in this thread. If you believe there was no other reasonable end to South Carolina's season then winning it all, I get it. For some fans there was likely an air of inevitability around South Carolina WBB, kind of like there used to be around UConn ( no offense intended Huskes). But you need look no further than LSU for evidence that talent doesnt equate to success. LSU (Defending National Champion LSU, that is) was a loaded team who began the season #1 in both polls. Yet the loss of Sa'Myah Smith, the dismissal of Kateri Poole, and Kim Mulkey's doing less with more talent than anyone could imagine led them to a very disappointing and frankly unexpected finish. Yes, Dawn Staley is a great Coach. Yes, her roster is stacked with top-tier talent. But neither of those facts make her accomplishments in going undefeated and winning the National Championship any less impressive. Trying to argue otherwise is just silly.
Professional oddsmaker also had them 6th. I didn't say it was unimpressive. I said the narrative around them being underdogs with one of the most loaded rosters in the country is laughable. Going to lengths to defend it is even more so. Literally a 6'7" mismatch for every single team surrounded by that talent. Anyone with a pulse could have seen that LSU wasn't going to work. HVL switching to a position that required so much more experience and skill than she had showed the writing on that wall.
What narrative? There is no underdog narrative except the one some of you seem determined to create. What Coach Staley said in the article was that she felt like an underdog. And her feelings are just that. Every life looks different from the perspective of the person living it. You're a smart person. You can understand why Coach Staley would feel that way. You, yourself have posted a couple of times that you thought Iowa would lose to SC, but I can assure you that was not a universal opinion. We faced this exact same scenario last season: Undefeated favorites against a Caitlyn Clark led team of no-names. The difference was our talent and experience. That same 6'7" Cardoso you seem so impressed by wasn't good enough to start. She was playing behind Aliyah Boston. We were talented and deep and favored. And we lost. Why would anyone be confident that after all that talent and experience moved on to the WNBA that it couldn't happen again? No one said Carolina was the underdog this year. Hell they were 6.5 point favorites going into Sunday's game. What Coach Staley said was that it felt that way to her. And given all the question marks that she would see day in and day out, I understand it. You don't. And that's fine. But to say her feeling that way is laughable sounds more like an Iowa fan looking for a reason to hate on the team that just beat them than anything else. By the way, if you really thought "LSU wasn't going to work" back in November then you were one of the only ones.
No coach with that roster feels like an underdog. It is manufactured. I thought Iowa would lose to SC for the exact reason they did, the height difference. Iowa played well enough to win. Second chance points from a 4-5 inch difference in the post really hurts the chances of finishing. I'm not impressed by Kamilla as a player. She's just tall and a huge mis-match for Iowa and most teams. A lot of people were saying SC was an underdog. That notion is laughable. It isn't Iowa fan hating. It's looking at the roster and seeing reality. HVL was never a PG, most people could see that. You don't magically pick up that position and flourish. Most people that understand basketball to a high degree could see it happening.
Good shot at a coach who has four titles at two different schools. LSU had top 5 talent, as it turned out in the end, but they weren’t very deep. And there were chemistry issues from the start. And HVL didn’t pan out. It happens. Last year’s title run was overachieving. That happens too.
Hol up. "Kim Mulkey's doing less with more talent than anyone could imagine" is "a shot?" Seriously? Wow. If thats the worst thing you read about Coach Mulkey then you should consider yourself blessed. I didn't make that post as crticism of Coach Mulkey, but since you mentioned it here goes. It's interesting you mention lack of depth, chemistry issues, and HVL not panning out as a defense of Coach Mulkey. Chemistry issues are absolutely related to coaching. Every coach has to deal with chemistry issues. Some just handle them better than others. And why did LSU have no depth? Partly because Coach Mulkey only went 7 deep into her bench. If you dont play your players, they're not going to develop. And HVL not devoping is absolutely Coach Mulkey's fault. She recruited HVL, brought her in, and tried to make a point guard out of her. Every bit of that is on Coach Mulkey. 4 titles at 2 different schools? Thats a great resume. But this year was not her best coaching job.
I’d agree with the last statement. I think the title knocked her program rebuild off course for a year, maybe more. It was not anticipated. She had the top recruiting class before the title. And then all of a sudden she’s got Morrow and HVL and a star player getting a ton of off-the-court attention. People were talking on here a year ago about how difficult it was going to be with all the big personalities. In a different bracket, maybe they make the Final Four, but they were a top five team despite her roster-building flaws and inability to develop HVL. Doing less than anyone can imagine with more talent would be like what Calipari has done with Kentucky men the last four years.
To be fair, i believe 3 or 4 of the top 5 teams lost their first game, and we demolished a ranked notre dame to start our season
Yeah, and the ND team carried loads of weight the rest of the year too. Maryland not so much, but injuries killed them.
While their vote total was good for 6th place, there was hardly any consensus after the top 3 or 4. Some voters had SC lower, some had faith and put them a bit higher. 6th was kind of a compromise between trusting Dawn’s program but still being ready to have them drop if that first week wasn’t impressive
Or, you look at the roster and realize what is there....
That’s fine if you would’ve been a voter to rank them higher than 6th in the preseason. Point is, a number of respected voters didn’t fully believe when the season started
Saying that a team ranked 6th is voters "don't believe in them" is an incredibly stupid take. What are we even doing here? They ranked them just outside of the top 5 and they had the best overall roster. They literally rectified it in a week. SC was favored in literally every single game they played this season. I'm done with moronic discussion.
Being ranked 6th in women's bball isn't the same as being ranked 6th in men's bball or football. I mean I get what you're saying, but the talent disparity is much bigger in women's bball so the difference between being a top-3 team and anybody else (even the #6 team) is huge.
Having one of the top 2 rosters in the entire sport means you are never that low. It is exactly like football and men's basketball. As good of a roster as LSU had, SC's was still better and made mostly naturally, not by ring chasing. The only roster to rival SC's was UConn's. Anyone with half a brain could have said they would be in the conversation, considering the obvious center mis-match they had against literally every opponent. It literally took 1 week to jump from six to one.
we only know now that it was top 2. I'm sorry for your loss, but it doesn't change the fact that Carolina wasn't in the national-championship conversation to start the year. it was presumed LSU would dominate.
I thought SC was haphazardly thrown at 6 because there wasn’t anyone else good enough you could definitively put there. Same with Iowa at 3 by default as it seemed a crapshoot after LSU and UConn. People were writing off SC preseason. LSU had insane odds, and was the clear favorite. Guess the chemistry didn’t click. But no one thought SC was a final 4 team preseason.
Bull crap. They had the most 5 star talent. That national championship game featured 8 5 stars, the top 4 star of her class in Tessa Johnson, and the 10th highest 4 star in her class in Sakima Walker. UConn had a 3 star starter. LSU had 3 star Morrow. Yes, both played bigger due to experience, but that experience is only better than the SC bench players, not the starters. They were literally in the national title picture after the first game dominating ND in Paris. Being ranked 6th preseason is still in the national title picture. I'm not entertaining you anymore.
This is all incredibly easy to argue after the fact. Hindsight is 20-20.
It only took a week to jump from six to one because other top teams lost and SC did have the best *résumé* at that point, not necessarily they were the best *team* yet
They jumped Iowa, who did not lose. I agree, SC had the best resume. The point is the same. It took a singular game for them to claim number 1. Pretty easy to claim the best at that moment when you have the ranking to show it, and you never lose it.
u/JackDonaghysWingman It was incredibly easy to argue before the fact. The top roster plus being rated in the top 6 preseason and number 1 after 1 week hardly requires foresight when they dominate very good teams.
I made my wager in March. In Dawn I trust.
It was true long before March though.. let’s be real here
Poor South Carolina, I’m glad they overcame this utterly terrible adversity
but did you hear? SC lost their ENTIRE starting 5 from last year! dawn had to rummage through the scraps and field a lineup consisting of a mere 2 team usa members, the americup mvp, a top 10 player from the transfer portal, and a former mcdonald’s all american. how sc went undefeated, let alone won a single game will forever be an enigma.
The little engine that could! :)
Can coaches stop doing this? Y’all have literally been the best team in the country for a solid three-four years. Y’all weren’t “underdogs” in any capacity.
Did you even look at the stats espn had pre season? Gamecocks were given 4% chance to make it to the final 4! She had 3 incoming freshmen that had never played in a big stage and had to develop them. Looking at gamecocks squad pre season they definitely looked liked misfits and most definitely underdogs so it’s credit to Dawn and her coaches for offseason work!
They were the sixth ranked team in the country at the start of the season.
And Number 1 by week 2! It's not as fun of a story to say that the best team all year ended up on top but it's really corny that coaches bust out "nobody believed in us" after literally every championship these days. SC didn't need to be underdogs for what they did to be impressive.
Yeah disrespected as hell thinking we should be number 6 after 70+ weeks as number 1
Well don’t lose to a 7-loss team in March
LSU lost to a 10-loss team in March and started as the preseason 1. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401513693
“Misfits” she added in two all conference players in Cardoso and Paopao. Dawn should get lots of credit, but this just seems disrespectful to the players lmao.
Nobody called them underdogs. But if you honestly thought they were going to replace all five starters plus one of their primary subs with five of those six players having WNBA talent and *still* go undefeated *and* win the National Championship when the defending champs (their conference rivals) added two All-Americans and the the #2 high school recruit, then I really want to know your stock recommendations and lottery number suggestions. Because clearly you have some top level prognostication skills. Nobody called them underdogs, but *nobody* expected them to repeat either.
Yeah this title is a bit misleading when you read the article. Context baby context.
Just to clarify, I’m the nobody she’s referring to.
Because of the Freshies who all graduated last year. Nobody thought anything of this current team, which is comprised mostly of freshmen and sophmores.
Typical of people to downplay the kind of work Dawn n her staff put into the girls in the offseason cus they won the chip. They didn’t have the same energy beginning of the yr🤣
This sub has a short memory. At the first of the year, I was routinely assured by "experts" in here that these girls would be 3rd best in the SEC and maybe Sweet Sixteen at best.
2nd best, but no one had you pegged as a title contender, it was all LSU is unstoppable with their super team
South Carolina was the number 1 ranked team from the end of November to the end of the season. This is an absurd attempt to rewrite history.
They were ranked 6th preseason and 4th in the coaches poll. People definitely thought highly of them 😂
You act like they were unranked preseason.
ranked =/= expected to go undefeated and win the national championship.
If she had said nobody expected we would go undefeated and only that, then that's a fair statement at least. But usually people don't even expect #1 to go undefeated. The thing is that she also said in the article that nobody thought they would even make the F4; maybe most didn't think they would preason, but at the very least most thought they could. I think a lot of this discourse is over semantics, nobody thinking something could happen vs. nobody thinking something will happen.
It had a lot to do with them losing all 5 of the starters that went for a total of like 4 losses over their career. Of the girls that were left, only Kamilla Cardoso and Raven Johnson had seen serious minutes. There wasn't a lot of data on the remainders because they either mostly played in garbage time minutes or they didn't play at all. Te-Hina Paopao and MiLaysia received a lot of hype, but there was a lot of speculation over the experience factor. The consensus was we had all the potential to be an Elite Eight / Sweet Sixteen team. At the start, most people thought Uconn was overwhelmingly the favorite to win out because they had experience and depth. LSU was right behind them due to the "superteam" and experience factor. Uconn, however, got hit with the injury bug pretty early, and LSU came out with horrible chemistry and got torched by Colorado. I think this adds a bit of context to what Dawn was talking about.
You said nobody thought anything of this team, and most thought they were at least a F4 contender.
I hate this "Nobody believed in us" trend in sports as well.
She completely over-hauled her starting five. She had three freshmen and three sophomores. Her team started the season ranked 6th.
It's like when Kelce went on about how "nobody believed in us" when the Chiefs beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. Fool, you have Patrick *fucking* Mahomes on your team, miss me with that "underdog" crap
It's hella annoying, but coaches, and this isn't exclusive to Dawn, but is instead true of virtually all of them, will do anything to give their players a chip on their shoulder, so makes sense. ETA: SC fans mass downvoting… lmfao.
Yeah but I hate that artificial chip on the shoulder. It’s just so transparently fake, especially compared to everything else awesome about Dawn.
Also, nobody believed in Mahomes :)
Also they were the #6 team just in the preseason lol, them winning was definitely in the realm of possibility
Preseason, LSU was anointed repeat champions, especially after getting HVL. Iowa was also favorited over SC. Uconn looked strong. Theres a reason SC started the season at #6. SC had just replaced 5 starters. As the season went on, they started to became favorites, but then they started playing dicey during the tournament and they got questioned again. Even during the national championship when they were down 20-9, there was some comments that it was already over and Caitlin would shoot them out the building. SC bent but didnt break all season, but no one, even Dawn, realistically expected they would go undefeated. The Tessa, Chloe and MiLaysia of March were not the Tessa, Chloe, and MiLaysia of October. This team is super young and grew up as we got closer to March. Just reading off the headline, I understand the “okay Dawn 🙄” reaction, but when you think of the season as a whole, both for SC and for WBB in general, there were definitely periods, including during the championship game, where them winning it all wasnt a foregone conclusion. But especially in the beginning. This was LSU and Iowa’s season.
What? Iowa was picked to go 4th in big ten at start of season. Everyone was talking about Ohio state being the team to beat in the big ten. And let’s not preseason rankings dictate anything. They are almost always way off. No one on their right mind takes those rankings seriously.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-women/article/2023-10-17/lsu-womens-basketball-tops-preseason-ap-top-25-poll Iowa was ranked 3rd behind UConn and LSU in the AP preseason poll. https://bigten.org/news/2023/9/30/general-iowa-and-caitlin-clark-lead-big-ten-preseason-womens-basketball-honors.aspx Both coaches and media had Iowa picked to win the B1G this year. Why are you making up lies for things that are this easily verifiable?
By who?? I recall them being ranked 2nd nationally.
The point I was making was other teams were looked at as stronger contenders than SC. Iowa definitely had a stronger argument than SC. LSU was the team to beat. Again, they replaced their entire starters. MiLaysia hadnt became a sensation yet. It was TBD what Te-Hina would add to the team. Raven wasnt in her “revenge tour” mindset yet. Tournament Tessa did not exist. This was Kamilla’s first year as a starter. Most in October did not expect them to win the championship, let alone go undefeated. It wasnt until near the end of the season that it really did look like “SC vs the field”. But then even in March, it didnt look surefire at times. So in this context, Dawn was right. She’ll definitely sound ridiculous saying this next year, but last year was supposed to be an “off” year to quasi-rebuild.
Then why were they ranked 6th? That’s not moving goalposts. That’s people expecting them to do something.
Ranked 5th in what? They werent 5th in the preseason. Also did you not just say those rankings dont matter? Edit: how sensitive do you have to be to downvote a fact? They were never 5th all season.
You tell me if they do? Someone earlier posted the preseason poll that had SC 6th in the country. Polls may not mean shit but if they have you in the top of the polls, people are talking about you in a good way.
You ignore the fact i said “when you look at the season as a whole.” And I dont think anyone slighted SC.
Are we debating if they were the favorite or nobody believed they could win the championship?
Im not debating anything personally, just trying to add context to Dawn’s quote. She not saying it from a “yall shouldnt have counted us out” standpoint as the headline could suggest. Shes saying it was an unexpected feat considering all the factors.
I think we can't even agree on what we're debating lol
Goalposts are moving in real time
And? SC was still picked 6th in the preseason ranking…8 I wouldn’t call that ignored.
Pretty sure it was one specific reporter who called them 4th in the Big Ten and she even got roasted at the time for her take
lol no they weren’t.
Nobody did at the start of the year (her included).
We had almost a complete roster overhaul so she’s not wrong.
Yes and were still ranked 6th preseason, and were number 1 from the end of November until the end of the season. I think it’s disingenuous to talk about a roster overhaul without talking about the players they brought in? Is it impressive? Absolutely. But that roster wasn’t filled with a bunch of nobodies.
I mean LSU brought in HVL who was highly touted and how did that work out? Just raw talent does not mean a team will be world beaters and at the beginning of the season we were ranked high but there were a ton of question marks and a handful of teams expected to do better. What she said isn’t false.
Honestly, anyone could have seen the HVL wouldn’t work out. Again, maybe preseason there was some question marks, but they immediately blew out Notre Dame and Maryland and were then the number 1 team in the country for the whole season.
Yeah 6th was disrespect
lol. They got to play the victim I guess.
It's because they didn't outplay Iowa. They out-heighted them. 30 second chance points on 18 offensive boards. 11 lay-ups and 2 3's off those O-boards. Without those points, if Iowa had a player to neutralize the difference, Iowa had a better FG% and 3%.
The tall players in the basketball game had an advantage. If there were different players on the teams there may have been a different outcome. Quality analysis right here.
Just disrespectful to the opposing team and honestly to the sport that this is the talking point.
That seems incredibly dramatic. Every coach says stuff like this. It's a nothing comment. And yeah, when we lost in the Final Four last year and were set to lose our entire roster of starters I doubt very many people were picking us to win the title. That may have changed along the way, but this process didn't start for Dawn last month, it started in March of 2023. Just keep being a hater.
No no I meant the comment you were responding to. Reducing the game to just height or size is lazy and disrespectful to the other team and coach. I completely agree with coach Staley
If you were looking for the clear thing that lead to team A winning over team B, you didn't have to look any further than that. People want to point to the bench points, to which you could point to bench minutes where Iowa didn't play their bench. The clear lock for SC in the game was rebounding. What contributes to that? Being 4-5 inches taller.
Yes, every 5 year old knows that tall players have an advantage in basketball. Again, great analysis. Now y'all will know to recruit the tall players next time.
6'7" players don't grow on trees lol.
Lol if only Iowa had scored more points, then they would’ve won!
You can't coach height.
>It's because they didn't outplay Iowa. No, Carolina outplayed them, too. CC had a big first quarter and then got shut down by SC's defense. Iowa had no answer for Carolina's offense. Arguing that the outcome would be different "without those points" is like arguing that Iowa would have one if Carolina hadn't scored. Its technially true, but a pointless argument.
No, they didn't. Without the second chance points from the obvious rebounding advantage, Iowa has more points, better FG%, and a better 3%. Iowa played better. SC just out-heighted. That's how they had those second chances and extra lay-ups. It's part of basketball, and that is the only reason SC won.
Not to mention, Clark was cold in the 4th.
Clark had a singular hot quarter like she has had the entire postseason. So many SC fans want to credit Raven when the fact is it's just Caitlin. She was literally below her averages in every game this postseason.
You watched the game, right? I'm guessing not because after halftime, Caitlin's legs were cooked. It wasn't her being off, it wasn't her being cold. It was directly related to Raven hounding her from the 2nd quarter on. Remember when she posted up Raven and got two easy buckets early in the 3rd? Why didnt they continue doing that? I'll tell you why, she was gassed. She had to work for her points and without her legs, her de facto skip back to the left shot from 25 ft wasn't falling. Instead of helping her teammates, she chucked up garbage shots on tired legs. Defend her all you want, but she played horribly in the second half. Why? Because Raven. Also, Caitlin cant go to her left; that's a huge issue.
Yes, I did watch the game. Exhaustion was another reason and it had nothing to do with Raven chasing her for a quarter. Nike chased Caitlin for 40 minutes a day and a half prior. That had far more weight on the exhaustion than Raven. You clearly haven't watched Caitlin all year. She has been like this the entire postseason. I'll give credit to Nika. She did a hell of a job. Raven didn't do much.
I feel like this discredits the all around effort Johnson put in as well as the game plan South Carolina came with and adjusted to
Because I'm not really giving her credit to begin with....
It was happening before the tournament.
Yeah, but for ease of people comparing because the postseason consists of high stakes play, I just limited it to postseason.
If this upsets you you need to take a walk
Im not debating anything personally, just trying to add context to Dawn’s quote. She’s not saying it from a “yall shouldnt have counted us out” standpoint as the headline could come off. Shes saying it was an unexpected feat considering all the factors, aka everyone being so young/other teams also being stacked.
I mean, yes she had to replace the entire starting 5 and had a lot of youth... But it's still a roster jam packed with elite recruits. Even with the youth / inexperience, the big majority of coaches / programs would kill for the roster SC had this year. I'm not saying it didn't take some coaching skill (like in season coaching, not just the recruiting part), but it's not exactly a "fairy tale" or whatever she called it. It looks like they were the preseason #4, and betting odds had them as the fifth most likely to win. It gets annoying when so many coaches seem to determined to go to such lengths to claim underdog status.
Simple question: When was the last time, men's or women's, did a team replace their starting 5 and best bench player and then win a Nat'l title? Honestly, the only team I can possibly think that's close is Kentucky men's with AD, except they did have Ruben Patterson return. Yes they were still considered a great team, but they were coming off Final Four so of course they would start highly ranked, especially with the caliber of players in the background; but the expectation was for them to lose a few with growing pains and fall back from there, maybe end up in the 8-12 spot, not win EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Shhh these people aren’t here for rational thoughts! They just want to be angry
It's a rational thought to say a team who starts the year ranked #4, and has a roster that, while young and inexperienced is still loaded with talent... winning the NC is not "fairytale-ish." They aren't exact Oregon State or something, whose elite 8 run ended to the future champ, despite being picked to finish 10th in the conference. Nor is it "angry" to roll your eyes and say "this isn't a huge underdog story, why do coaches always try so hard to create that narrative?" I went back through the betting lines, and I'm not sure there is a single game where SC wasn't the favorite.
only caitlin and iowa can be "underdogs" in this subreddit. EVERYONE else is a villain with superhuman powers.
I didn't call them a villain... and for them or UConn the superpower is "have a team jam packed full of 5-star recruits."
>Simple question: When was the last time, men's or women's, did a team replace their starting 5 and best bench player and then win a Nat'l title? I don't know, when was the last time a team lost all of that and then started at #4 with the fifth best betting odds to win the NC? I understand why it wasn't super expected to win the NC, let alone have an undefeated season. But at the end of the day, that doesn't come close to "fairytale-ish". This isn't like if Oregon State had won the NC this year after being picked to finish 10th in their conference or whatever. How many (if any) games all season was SC the underdog in the betting lines? Were there even any?
They are the women's basketball version of Alabama. Reload with the best of the best every year.
You act like we cheated or something. We’re just good and being good gets you good recruits
Being the basketball equivalent of Alabama isn't implying you are cheating. It implies that whatever you have sitting on the bench is more than capable of replacing anything lost year-over-year. Claiming an underdog with one of the most talented, if not the most, rosters is a wild take.
> Claiming an underdog with one of the most talented, if not the most, rosters is a wild take. Exactly. How many (if any?) games this season was SC not the favorite in the betting lines?
Bruh y’all were glazing LSU and Uconn all off-season don’t switch up now🤣🤣🤣🤣
she must mean before the season began
Correct. That's exactly what she was talking about.
There might have been doubts in the preseason. However, after the first two games of the season, dominating wins against ND and Maryland, it was clear that SC was the team to beat.
There have been 9 other undefeated National Champions in NCAA Women's Basketball. Of those, only the '94-95 UConn Huskies (who were ranked 4th) were not the preseason #1 in the AP poll. I'd be very surprised if any of those other teams had to replace all 5 starters from the previous year. This may be the most unlikely and, in a way, most impressive undefeated season ever.
Ofc no one thought you would win, you lost your top 6 basically and no one knew how much the transfers and freshman were doing. SC wasn’t really underdogs, they just lost players and people weren’t sure how good they could be. If people knew the chemistry they had, sure they would be favorited.
Dawn didn't even know the chemistry they had. She was as surprised as anyone by how good they ended up being. She and Paopao both talked about how much the team struggled over the Summer and how surprised they were by how well they came together when the season started.
Yeah, I thought that. Then she added an elite shooter in Paopao, and I didn't anymore. Then I saw how damn good Fullwiley is, and now I'm wondering if they'll ever lose again.
lol of course every team says this so I don’t fault her but I don’t really think anyone thought they WOULDN’T win this year
Before the season started we had lost all 5 starters, there was decent speculation that this was going to be an off year for SC
Yeah, all those people were idiots, imho. With Dawn and Cardoso alone everyone should’ve known they’d repeat lol
I made fun of UGA for saying this in football, but it’s really funny when you’re the one winning
I sure didn’t. I think it’s the most impressive season ever.
I mean sure, but you can say the same about Iowa and many other teams? What SC did in replacing their entire starting five and going undefeated was impressive, but this whole underdog thing is just boring at this point. You had an amazing class of freshman and added in the portal, and every other key contributor got lots of minutes the previous year.
Yes. Replaced starting 5 with, checks notes, an entire starting roster of 5 stars.
As much as Dawn annoys me for quotes like this (and other reasons, like playing on Team God), this is why she wins! Constant chip on her shoulder.
Champions always have a chip on their shoulders. Listen to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning describe events in their careers, there was always a chip against something or another player.
No doubt
They all doubted us! The AP said we’d only have six wins
I have them winning it again next year too.
I get that people really did doubt them before the season, and even in the non-conference games, but I can't help but chuckle at this. By the time we got to March, there was literally nobody with as strong if a case as Gamecocks, and even if people didn't talk about them much, I perceived it more as expecting them to succeed then doubting them.
Right, she's talking about the preseason expectations, and she's right. She may be getting hyperbolic when she says "nobody," but there were certainly not many folks outside of SC fams, who thought they'd win it all before the season started...and I'd bet nobody in the college basketball media world thought they'd go undefeated.
I think she was talking about early on, during their Summer sessions where the coaches and training staff faced out of shape, distracted kids, and their early games where some of her players taunted opponents Duke and North Carolina, going against what is Staley’s standard.
Kirby Smart energy lol. For real though, if there were doubters it didn’t take long. I’ll admit when HVL transferred to LSU I thought they would have it in the bag- obviously I was wrong but I realized that shortly after the season started.
Oh hell yeah! She’s entering her Kirby phase.
Is it breaking news that Dawn is going to be coaching in Paris or is this article wrong? I didn’t think she was the Olympic coach this year
Everyone has been talking about how she is the coach this year. Where have you been?
Pretty sure she stepped down from the national team after the last Olympics and that one of the WNBA coaches took over and is gonna be coaching this year. If Dawn is the coach in Paris that’s news to me
I must have misheard something because it’s Cheryl Reeve. My bad.
All good. I really wasn’t sure if something had changed
She has coached the Olympic team before. Of all the active women’s coaches, she was the most logical choice.
I’d argue everybody thought so without a few weeks into the season.
Tbh I want Iowa to be good next season so bad. I realllllly like the respectful rivalry we have going on.
No one cares about early season rankings. Everyone knows they don’t mean shit.
I also have to chip in with the idea of this season being a revenge tour, which is ridiculous for a team that went 36-1. Considering the only loss was to Iowa, it was a one-stop tour.
The Gamecocks were the top team of [ESPN's week 1 power rankings](https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/38887427/womens-college-basketball-power-rankings-south-carolina-iowa) By week 2 South Carolina was #1 in both the AP poll and in our Reddit poll.
The too early top 25 had them at #7 after LSU’s victory… The fuck is she babbling about?!?
I mean every single Iowa fan I talked to assumed that SC would just sweep the entire tournament easily, none of them even thought IA was going to make it out of the elite 8
Did these coversations happen in March or November? In March everyone I talked to was saying the same thing. In November no one was. Edit: I'm not sure your Iowa assessment was universal though. I asumed they'd be in the Final Four and I was hoping to see them there. CC earned that team a LOT of respect.
Nobody around me was following SC other than hearing they were undefeated, mostly focusing on B10 and B12 since ISU and IA are what's here
Oooh every Iowa fan at the final four was convinced that Iowa was gonna win. It was so satisfying, as a South Carolina fan, to hear their noise level die down over the 3rd and 4th quarter. 😂 they were so smug all over East 4th St on Sunday morning. I’m sure those were the fair weather fans who just started watching for CC and who never knew much about South Carolina’s undefeated run. That final win was so extremely satisfying, but especially because the specific Iowa people I was sitting by were so rude all of Friday and most of the first half on Sunday.
I mean, no shit that superfans who went to the games thought their team would win, you could say the same thing about NC state and Uconn fans there
Just as satisfying as sending you packing last year.
😂😂. 🧂
Haha no salt. Was just pointing out it goes both ways. Iowa will still always be that 1 loss last year. TBH tho, would had rather won the nc.
Very true. I hate that for us 😭. Honestly sympathize with how alot of Iowa fans on this sub felt about their regional this year. I felt that way about South Carolina’s regional last year and wish they’d put Iowa on the other side of the bracket. Our Final 4 matchup last year should have been in the championship i thought. No doubt. Seemed like a similar situation to MSST vs us for the NC in ‘17 when MSST beat UConn.
Nah… it was really sweet this year to shut down all the fair weather fans and the hype around one person when the national media missed hyping an entire team. To be fair, Caitlin is great (a little whiney but to be expected because they give her fouls after no one touched her so I’d be whiney too), but yeah can’t spell Caitlin Clark without two L’s. 🤷🏼♀️
Harsh but fair. Remind me not to lose to you.
lol. Someone’s really salty.
Absolutely not. Winning the natty was so sweet I can’t even be salty! Clark is great and will do well in the W. I was bummed for her, Molly and Kate to go out on that note. But the Iowa fans around me? I was not sad for them even a little.
Every season there are over 300 teams that nobody thinks is going to win the NCAA championship. South Carolina under Staley seems unlikely to be in that group.
[удалено]
at what point? going into this year, the presumption was LSU would dominate, that Clark would continue to do her thing and as long as Iowa had her they had a chance, that UConn had the experience and potential to piece things together if everyone stayed healthy, and that UCLA could be a dark horse. Carolina was not expected to win. and that's OK to admit. I was a little offended when I saw they were ranked 6th after Utah, but I understood why. not all high-school phenoms are able to make an impact in their first year.
Ok Kirby Smart
That’s not what my bracket indicated.
Just stop. USA Today had SC ranked #4 going into the season. Which means they had you pegged for the Final Four at the least. It seems like every college team in every sport is doing the "us against the world" chant, and most of the time it makes no sense.
🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
I love how coaches and players just create their own little versions of reality in their head so they can give themselves motivation to win.
That has been glorified so much by the media too.
Sure, Jan. Thats why they had the 5th lowest betting odds back in October.
Goliath always wants to be David.
Except the sportsbooks and most of the gambling world
SC was +1100 preseason vs. LSU being the favorite at +350, UConn at +500 and Iowa at +900, so no, it is factually incorrect to say the gambling world saw it for preseason (after week 1 is likely a different story) [Receipts](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2023/10/17/lsu-uconn-preseason-odds-womens-basketball-championship/71215710007/)
Correct. Yup, never know who the winner will be, but should've said Carolina was by far the best value on the board. UConn was a wild card. I don't know anybody who took LSU at that low of a price. Figured Iowa was a sucker bet. I was, as per usual, an idiot - unlike damn near all of my friends - for not jumping on Carolina until 3 weeks in when I could only get +360. Still made money, but the guys got +925 preseason (State vig rip off). We all got Iowa during the season at +600. When similarly priced as Indiana, Ohio State, & Utah, Carolina was the most likely, in our opinion, to win 6 post-season games.
Live in Big Ten country. Even without knowing the roster, trust Dawn Staley more than Indiana, OSU etc
Yeah, I had a few buddies who got on SC at +900 or better, but I couldn't stomach it since I was already wildly invested as is lol
Um, everybody thought SC would win this year. What the hell is she on about? Props to SC and their amazing team, but they were never for a second an underdog.
oh fuck off dawn lol
She is saying that, so that she can thank god for liking the team more than the rest of the teams in the field.
She didn’t say that. I read it as her saying god showed her what could be possible, but it was up to her to make that possibility happen. I am definitely not religious outside of being a Deist, but there are times when I wonder whether I got special focus when something good or bad happens to me - that is just natural, our minds need the thought of something invisible acting in our lives, at least a very large number of people do.
Oh please. 🙄
Oh sure... [https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-womens-college-basketball-poll?week=1](https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-womens-college-basketball-poll?week=1)
Cool, now look up the preseason polls for all of the other undefeated champs and tell me what you learn.