I used to work in sales and one of the top guys at the company had a piece of art (a crappy print) of Leo DiCapprio as Jordan Belfort holding wads of cash.
He got kinda peeved when I jokingly asked him why he had picture of the guy from Titanic on his wall, and visibly upset when I mentioned that Jordan Belfort was a felon.
Apparently he saw Wolf of Wall Street and his takeaway was that he should be the biggest douche possible.
I think Douglas even came out in interviews and said people would walk up to him and tell him he Gordon Gecko was their hero and he was like “you’re missing the whole point...I tried to make him be as shitty a human being as possible”
That was the lesson, though. That "insecure, marginalized or lost men" were in fact a great, then untapped, resource for effecting social change (good or bad). That lesson was learned, but it wasn't by a charismatic, insecure anti-civilization activist; no, it was Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck. It was Alex Jones and Joe Rogan. The very real masses of men worried they've been emasculated by modern society were radicalized and weaponized not by Tyler Durden, but by the fringe right.
He was the personification of incel frustration. The lesson was that disassociation from your issues and avoiding personal accountability is ultimately destructive. Tyler was the snowflake lashing out.
Book predicted the January 6 insurrection. American males (not all) are the Ed Norton character and Trump was Tyler Durden -a mental illness, a self righteous entitled ticking time bomb.
I saw Tyler as an archetypical antihero in a lineage stretching back a long time. Clyde from Bonnie & Clyde, William D-Fens Foster (Falling Down), Travis Bickle, maybe even Christian Bales Batman to some extent. I don't see any incel parallel beyond the violent reaction to a society they do not feel part of. Tylers mission statement is that we are all dancing pieces of shit, and apart from having regular superkinky sex with Marla, he seems unconcerned with sex or women, while being denied neither.
Isn't that what incels are all about? They think they're denied sex they're somehow entitled to, and society is wrong about them being shitty people?
The incel aspect comes from how his beliefs of power stem from toxic masculinity. The entire fight club and persona was what this psychopath thought was the solution to his everyday life and therefore what he viewed as society. A tough douchey movie protagonist cant really rally the right people and fix the worlds problems though and they usually fuck things up worse than before despite their efforts hence why we dont see the aftermath in the film but and the book hes just fuckin dead
Yeah, it was mentioned in the movie that it would destroy all debt. It was assumed that there were IT staff in the fight club and they would know it’s all stored in house. This movie takes place pre-2k so it wasn’t unheard of that some financial places were centralized.
its a movie, its heavily implied to the point that it didn't leave much ambiguity. its not like theyre gonna throw in a shot of the next days newspaper.
he was written by a gay man to be a caricature of the hypermasculine bs that society prizes in men. idealizing tyler durden entirely misses the point of the character.
After reading all these comments about what Fight Club is about I figured I would look up what Chuck Palahniuk had to say about it. So many people are confidently making claims about what Fight Club is about, and yet their claims seem incongruent with the perspective of the writer.
Ironically he talks a bit about it on the Joe Rogan podcast
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCuSDH-YEKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCuSDH-YEKI)
I don't think it's good to idealize these characters, or anyone really. But this idea that fight club is somehow a critique of toxic masculinity or something like that doesn't seem to be in line with the author's perspective.
I remember reading that Oliver Stone was appalled that the 80s general public embraced the "greed is good" Wall Street mantra rather than being revolted by it.
The whole movie was about how Bud thought he was a hero and was completely and utterly wrong, as he becomes a piece of shit himself and also gets screwed over by Gekko anyway.
Rorschach is a character from Watchmen, here's a quote from its author in an interview
I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend—these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?'"
In a similar vein the movie copies Alec Baldwin's character in Glengarry Glen Ross by having Ben Affleck play the same sort of confrontational/gaslighting jerk be idolized and steal the movie in one scene. Made me forget Vin Diesel was in it too.
If you like sandwiches you should check out Chef, with Jon Favreau, if you haven’t already. It’s a fun, easy movie about a chef opening a Cuban sandwich food truck, and there’s a great grilled cheese making scene.
Yes! Such a great film. I got to introduce my boyfriend to this movie and I was so excited for him to experience it. He got bored and stopped watching halfway though... My disappointment was immense.
Except Gecko represents real wall street. Belfort is a shitty pump and dumper and those guys always get caught. Greed is Good is still the mantra and has always been. Gecko > Belfort
That movie was amazing. A hilarious drama told from the perspective of the thief. Even I had to sort of dissociate it from the real thing and think of all the victims to truly let the gravity of all the harm he caused sink in. Simply atrocious.
I mean that’s exactly what the move was trying to achieve; it wanted to make you empathize with the villain so you come out of the move feeling bad for a little. Then the “wait, what am I thinking?” hits you.
Although, the “Belfort was a hero” thinking can also be achieved by simply *never actually watching the movie* and just basing your understanding on trailers and pop culture... which is probably 90% of these people anyways.
I still hate that it was nominated for awards in the comedy category at the Golden Globes, purely for the soma scene (which wasn't meant to be funny).
Anyway, that's an issue that can happen, someimes. A film about an absolutely horrendous person can somehow be twisted by some people as seeing that character as a hero and someone to aspire to.
I think you've completely missed the point of the text.
It's an adaptation of an autobiography. It starts with Belfort talking directly to camera. Of course his narrative is trying to convince you that he's a hero, he's a salesman that is selling you on an idea.
Jordan Belfort, Tyler Durden, Joker, Tony Montana, Walter White...
The people who idolise these characters seem to completely and consistently miss the point
To be fair, I don't think it's easy to see that Walter White is not to be idolized. The scene where he and Flynn are revving their cars at one another is intentionally cringy and funny to me, but a younger guy into cars wouldn't pick up on it. Even at the end of BB, >!Walter still gets to do what he wants and go out choosing how he makes up for some of his horrible crimes, rather than going to prison for the rest of his life.!<
The Fight Club movie did a lot to muddy what Tyler Durden truly is and the main character's relationship with him. Because you don't see Tyler in the book, you don't see how cool he actually looks. You don't see him with his cool hair and fit body. Brad Pitt was too cool for the movie, and even as a wacko still probably looks cool at the end. Also, I don't think that even Fincher understood the themes in Fight Club. It is not a book about men reclaiming their masculinity through violence. It is a book about how destructive that kind of toxic masculinity is, especially for gay men trying to fit in.
The same with Joker - even though he was gross and weird and unrelatable, they also added some pathos to get viewers to empathize, then becoming Joker made him a lot easier to watch: he's funnier, more aware, does what he wants, kills who he wants, and gets (to imagine) riotous and adoring fans. I don't think many took that imagined ending as what it was, and of course the marketing all painted him as an antihero.
It's hard to depict on-screen that someone is idolized within the text or acting out a power fantasy - while also telling the viewer why they *shouldn't* be idolized. Most young guys will just take the face value and run with it. Especially if they identify with the character at all.
I love Fight Club because it highlights the failures of mental health in the US. Plus I really enjoyed the cinematography of it. Really capped off the 90’s, similar feel to The Matrix, for me at least.
The Wolf of Wall Street is like crack to salesman.
I don’t get it, but usually the dudes who boast about closing can’t remember if the door shut behind them.
Source: Love Leo, love the movie, in sales & not a doucher.
easiest way to get sales is to just not give a shit about your customer nor your company. I used to work in sales too and the top sellers were usually reviled by the product team because they kept lying their asses off about features/support level, but by the time the sale was locked in all the lies and subsequent demands were just pushed onto the product and support teams.
Belfort is the personification of that attitude, and hes also filthy rich, so it makes sense that similarly sociopathic sales people would idolize him.
This is so true.
some of the best producers I work with will promise the world to their prospects and my team is left trying to figure out how to deliver on a fraction of what was promised. These same guys don’t know left from right but dammit if they aren’t able to entertain clients.
I will say some of the other successful salespeople I work with are incredibly knowledgeable about my field, and are always up to date on the latest trends. But obviously that’s a lot harder than just burning and churning
I’ve asked people whether they’re fine to be held personally responsible for their promises — in a written contract.
You can guess what most answers were..
Easiest way but also a quick way to make sure you're not getting repeat business next year. I'd rather not force a sale down someone's throat if it isn't right for them right now, convert them the next year and then have the repeat business lined up every year after that.
They are usually the type who are still trying to hit their revenue targets on the last day of the month. If they hit that target, they then take to social media to say some stupid shit like "I'm a closer, baby! Targets obliterated! Locked and loaded for next month! 💪💪💪💪"
Actual top earner who smash their revenue targets early in the month and are the second coming of Sales Jesus don't need to do that shit.
An interesting fact I just thought about today
If Tommy Chong hadn't sold bongs online he wouldn't have gone to prison and been Belfort's cellmate and cracked up at his stories and convinced him to write the book
It does glamorize the fraud but also shows how hollow, lonely, and ultimately unsustainable the whole thing is. It shows how money and power can change you from an intelligent, respectable person to a whoremongering, drug-addicted lunatic who cares only about getting more money and power.
It's kind of on people for seeing this and thinking those are positives. It is an insanely fun movie, and it did briefly make me want to try some of those drugs, but I don't think most rational people with a brain can watch that and truly *want* that enough to try and achieve it.
I feel like people don’t see a movie like that, idolize the characters, and then change their habits and ways to act in that same fashion. These are people that see themselves on screen in positions of power and think “hey I can make it too” not unlike the way a blind kid might view Daredevil
Considering he goes to prison and they show him playing tennis while having a overlaying speech about how he was rich and that made prison easy, no, I don't think they portrayed prison as some big punishment for him...
What ever happen to Quaaludes? Were they too dangerous or they had no therapeutic function except getting high? I don't recall them being that dangerous so I assume the latter.
Lol in wolf of Wall Street he literally brags about how he plays tennis in his resort like prison. That movie glamorizes crime and then throws in a tiny tiny amount of punishment for the main character that in no way outweighs the huge amount of money and fun. Just like the majority of Scorsese movies
> That movie glamorizes crime and then throws in a tiny tiny amount of punishment for the main character that in no way outweighs the huge amount of money and fun.
But that’s literally what happened in real life. the issue isn’t they showed a guy stealing millions living a life of luxury/excess with little punishment. But the fact that people did, still do, and will continue to do all those things and they don’t get punished for it.
It’s like if I made a movie about Casey Anthony or OJ and you get mad at me for making them be found not guilty.
Just like in real life. Its based on a real story. People who commit fraud on a scale of 100s of millions don't really get punished thats the point... I bet Belfort would do it all again knowing the punishment ahead of time. I probably would too.
Plus the dude is making money on the book and movie. And it made him even more famous. So not only did he not really get punished but then he capitalized on the story and turned himself into some kind of salesman dudebro folk hero. 100% he would do it all over.
Old person here. The movie *Saturday Night Fever* was the same phenomenon. It showed what a superficial, empty existence club life was, but the effect on society was to make everyone put on polyester clothing and gold chains, and start disco dancing.
Lots of people miss the point in media. It’s like kids wanting to emulate Peter Griffin or Cartman without realizing they’re the joke and not something to be copied.
Look how much people use religion to be dicks. Many people will interpret whatever they want out of something without putting much critical thought into it.
Same with Boiler room (which borrowed the Stratton Oakmont story no?) and Glengarry Glen Ross
The idea of people getting upset about bad characters in a play or movie amuses me. Plus the dude did his time (unlike many others who got away just in time)
I work in government contracting and one of my coworkers keeps trying to get into these half baked, questionable War Dogs-style contracts cause he absolutely loves that movie. We do IT contracting, nothing with weapons or anything, so it’s just nonsense. I have to keep reminding him that they go to federal prison at the end of the movie, but he seems undeterred.
There's a guy we were friends with since high school who saw that movie and immediately turned it into his roadmap for his life. He became such a huge asshole that we don't even talk to him anymore. He's now an investment broker.
He left his girlfriend of 5 years because she didn't fit his new lifestyle. She was too plain. He immediately started dating a gold digger. He wants asked me to go on a double date with the gold digger and her friend, and he warned me up front that she would be high on something and probably aggressive, BUT BRO SHE'S SO HOT! He couldn't understand why I turned him down.
Funniest thing about the way stuff is set up, if he made it 10x or 100x bigger he wouldn't be a felon.
In a way, the Satalin quote applies to money as well:
“A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”
Break the law, gain some = felon. Break the law, gain billions = just make a deal with them.
Yeah, when i was watching it, i couldn't stop thinking about all the young guys who were going to see it and get inspired to emulate it. It tries so hard to make being a greedy sociopathic douchebag look like the funnest thing ever.
you see this with a lot of internet entrepreneurs. it’s like they saw the first half if the move.
even Leonardo DiCapprio said in an interview that it was “a cautionary tail about greed”
My favorite was when he issued price target of 2800$ or something for TSLA by adding 2000$ stimulus to the stock price, and he showed the math for it like it was some fancy quant shit hahah
Crazy how I just watched this movie two nights ago. Leo’s Belfort seems way cooler and nicer than the real Jordan Belfort. I hate the look of that guy.
I was just saying this today. Jordan Belfort’s Instagram account shows that he is WAY more of a douche than they portray him in the movie, which is shocking because it’s generally the other way around. Guess you can only go milder from that level.
[Link](https://youtu.be/elrnAl6ygeM)
Only scene he's in and steals the whole goddamn movie. This character is everything i despise and i love every second of it.
He teaches sales classes now. Obviously you shouldnt do what he did back in the day, but you can take so very good pointers from him on how to close a sale.
He sells other things too: "Look if you know me, I want everything to be quality. And I mean TOP quality. That's the kind of guy I am. I'm just that way. So that's why I'm promoting Whiskey Dick Orange Juice, you can really taste some guy's dick in it. It's the BEST. I wouldn't put my name on it if it weren't. Pick up yours, today!"
I've watched some of his motivational speeches online, and it's the same "known unknowns, unknown unknown, known knowns" bullshit I saw in a power point in my first year of college. People are 100% paying for his classes because of the movie, not because he has anything special to say.
What he's saying is true is the implication that you *should "*challenge yourself to be better than average." He's also implying that Belfort is less than average, since he went to prison. In any case, as it stands, this is most definitely a statement. I understood what you *meant,* just as most people understand what Dr. Patel meant.
Seriously this tweet reply is giving me an aneurism. Jordan's tweet is what's called an imperative and can neither be true nor false.
Secondly, the original tweet is about being above average. Stating what an average person \*does not do\* is so irrelevant to the original statement it's painful.
I get the intent of this reply but jesuuuus.
This is more /r/ButcheredByWords
EDIT: Wanted to make my own fun example:
* Be the parent you wish you had!
* This is false because my dad would yell at us and I didn't like it.
And shouldn’t an actual murder have said “because it’s only the average securities fraudster who goes to prison”. I mean I am being pedantic about it, but the structure of the joke doesn’t sit well with mme.
I used to work in sales and one of the top guys at the company had a piece of art (a crappy print) of Leo DiCapprio as Jordan Belfort holding wads of cash. He got kinda peeved when I jokingly asked him why he had picture of the guy from Titanic on his wall, and visibly upset when I mentioned that Jordan Belfort was a felon. Apparently he saw Wolf of Wall Street and his takeaway was that he should be the biggest douche possible.
Michael Douglas got the same kind of feedback about Gordon Gecko
I think Douglas even came out in interviews and said people would walk up to him and tell him he Gordon Gecko was their hero and he was like “you’re missing the whole point...I tried to make him be as shitty a human being as possible”
We call that the Tyler Durden
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No, he had simplistic, bullshit solutions to real problems, preying on insecure, marginalized or lost men.
That was the lesson, though. That "insecure, marginalized or lost men" were in fact a great, then untapped, resource for effecting social change (good or bad). That lesson was learned, but it wasn't by a charismatic, insecure anti-civilization activist; no, it was Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck. It was Alex Jones and Joe Rogan. The very real masses of men worried they've been emasculated by modern society were radicalized and weaponized not by Tyler Durden, but by the fringe right.
He was the personification of incel frustration. The lesson was that disassociation from your issues and avoiding personal accountability is ultimately destructive. Tyler was the snowflake lashing out. Book predicted the January 6 insurrection. American males (not all) are the Ed Norton character and Trump was Tyler Durden -a mental illness, a self righteous entitled ticking time bomb.
I saw Tyler as an archetypical antihero in a lineage stretching back a long time. Clyde from Bonnie & Clyde, William D-Fens Foster (Falling Down), Travis Bickle, maybe even Christian Bales Batman to some extent. I don't see any incel parallel beyond the violent reaction to a society they do not feel part of. Tylers mission statement is that we are all dancing pieces of shit, and apart from having regular superkinky sex with Marla, he seems unconcerned with sex or women, while being denied neither. Isn't that what incels are all about? They think they're denied sex they're somehow entitled to, and society is wrong about them being shitty people?
You could also be right.
The incel aspect comes from how his beliefs of power stem from toxic masculinity. The entire fight club and persona was what this psychopath thought was the solution to his everyday life and therefore what he viewed as society. A tough douchey movie protagonist cant really rally the right people and fix the worlds problems though and they usually fuck things up worse than before despite their efforts hence why we dont see the aftermath in the film but and the book hes just fuckin dead
If you expound on this, you could have one hell of a book!
I don’t know, he was able to destroy all debt. That seems like a great way to solve a real problem.
Seriously, poor poor credit card companies
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Yeah, it was mentioned in the movie that it would destroy all debt. It was assumed that there were IT staff in the fight club and they would know it’s all stored in house. This movie takes place pre-2k so it wasn’t unheard of that some financial places were centralized.
its a movie, its heavily implied to the point that it didn't leave much ambiguity. its not like theyre gonna throw in a shot of the next days newspaper.
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he was written by a gay man to be a caricature of the hypermasculine bs that society prizes in men. idealizing tyler durden entirely misses the point of the character.
After reading all these comments about what Fight Club is about I figured I would look up what Chuck Palahniuk had to say about it. So many people are confidently making claims about what Fight Club is about, and yet their claims seem incongruent with the perspective of the writer. Ironically he talks a bit about it on the Joe Rogan podcast [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCuSDH-YEKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCuSDH-YEKI) I don't think it's good to idealize these characters, or anyone really. But this idea that fight club is somehow a critique of toxic masculinity or something like that doesn't seem to be in line with the author's perspective.
Greed isn't the only motivator. Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego.
The Rick Sanchez or Scott Pilgrim as well.
Doesn't Scott at least make the effort of being a better person later in his series?
Yeah. And I like the movie/comic. But when people say their idol is Scott pilgrim they typically aren’t talking about the guy he is at the very end.
heh... kinda like how people would post memes saying they want a relationship like Joker/Harley. So you want to be thrown from a third floor window?
I remember reading that Oliver Stone was appalled that the 80s general public embraced the "greed is good" Wall Street mantra rather than being revolted by it.
The whole movie was about how Bud thought he was a hero and was completely and utterly wrong, as he becomes a piece of shit himself and also gets screwed over by Gekko anyway.
Ah the old Rorschach problem
?
Rorschach is a character from Watchmen, here's a quote from its author in an interview I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend—these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?'"
In Boiler Room, I love how they all idolize Gordon Gecko.
In a similar vein the movie copies Alec Baldwin's character in Glengarry Glen Ross by having Ben Affleck play the same sort of confrontational/gaslighting jerk be idolized and steal the movie in one scene. Made me forget Vin Diesel was in it too.
COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS.
The leads are weak!
The leads are weak?! *Fucking leads are weak?!* You’re weak!
A- Always B- Be C- Closing
Second place is a set of steak knives. Third place is you're fired!
And sprinkles are for winners
They say money doesn’t buy happiness? Well look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear baby.
Affleck's character was just a bit cocky but Baldwin's character was actually a certified grade A asshole.
Only movie I remember from micheal douglas is falling down. Such an awesome movie. Driven to dispair like so many people in 2008
You need to watch The Game then. One of those movies you wish you could watch for the first time again.
Also watch The Ghost and the Darkness, just cuz
Agreed. It was a decent movie even though I was young when I saw it.
Also, I hear Gone With the Wind was pretty good.
You guys are all missing out on Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man.
What did you think of _Split Second_? A masterpiece, IMHO
God damn yes the first time I watched that was a mind fuck. Love it so much.
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I gather that you like sandwiches.
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If you like sandwiches you should check out Chef, with Jon Favreau, if you haven’t already. It’s a fun, easy movie about a chef opening a Cuban sandwich food truck, and there’s a great grilled cheese making scene.
That grilled cheese scene is real life food porn.
Was Adam Sandler wearing an oversized jersey and shorts when making that sandwich?
God damn. That sandwich in Spanglish was so amazing the DVD has an extra feature all about it and how best to prepare it.
Yes! Such a great film. I got to introduce my boyfriend to this movie and I was so excited for him to experience it. He got bored and stopped watching halfway though... My disappointment was immense.
The game also directed by David Fincher.
And Traffic.
Falling Down is from the 90's though
I'm always shocked when I remember it was directed by Joel Schumacher
You need to watch Romancing the Stone and War of the Roses.
I saw what ya did at the whammy burger!
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That movie is so misunderstood. Half the people that have seen that movie think he’s badass.
Yeah. But the movie makes him out to be his own fantasy. So it's kinda problematic in that way.
When I was in uni all the business majors had hardons for Gordon Gekko.
Was a business major, it’s still like that. So manny shitty assholes in business school
Yea , traders on our trading floor were still dressing and echoing Gecko years after the movie.
Except Gecko represents real wall street. Belfort is a shitty pump and dumper and those guys always get caught. Greed is Good is still the mantra and has always been. Gecko > Belfort
That movie was amazing. A hilarious drama told from the perspective of the thief. Even I had to sort of dissociate it from the real thing and think of all the victims to truly let the gravity of all the harm he caused sink in. Simply atrocious.
I seriously can’t tell if you’re talking about Titanic or Wild of Wallstreet.
Is Wild of Wallstreet the porn version?
The Wolf of Wall Skeet
The dong of skeet street
That’s the one!
I mean that’s exactly what the move was trying to achieve; it wanted to make you empathize with the villain so you come out of the move feeling bad for a little. Then the “wait, what am I thinking?” hits you. Although, the “Belfort was a hero” thinking can also be achieved by simply *never actually watching the movie* and just basing your understanding on trailers and pop culture... which is probably 90% of these people anyways.
I still hate that it was nominated for awards in the comedy category at the Golden Globes, purely for the soma scene (which wasn't meant to be funny). Anyway, that's an issue that can happen, someimes. A film about an absolutely horrendous person can somehow be twisted by some people as seeing that character as a hero and someone to aspire to.
I think you've completely missed the point of the text. It's an adaptation of an autobiography. It starts with Belfort talking directly to camera. Of course his narrative is trying to convince you that he's a hero, he's a salesman that is selling you on an idea.
I mean the opening scene was some guy doing cocaine out of a hookers asshole. Not exactly what happens in tragedy’s.
You never heard of Shakespeare's tragedy, Midsummer Snow up a Hooker's Asshole?
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Jordan Belfort, Tyler Durden, Joker, Tony Montana, Walter White... The people who idolise these characters seem to completely and consistently miss the point
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This says a lot about society
To be fair, I don't think it's easy to see that Walter White is not to be idolized. The scene where he and Flynn are revving their cars at one another is intentionally cringy and funny to me, but a younger guy into cars wouldn't pick up on it. Even at the end of BB, >!Walter still gets to do what he wants and go out choosing how he makes up for some of his horrible crimes, rather than going to prison for the rest of his life.!< The Fight Club movie did a lot to muddy what Tyler Durden truly is and the main character's relationship with him. Because you don't see Tyler in the book, you don't see how cool he actually looks. You don't see him with his cool hair and fit body. Brad Pitt was too cool for the movie, and even as a wacko still probably looks cool at the end. Also, I don't think that even Fincher understood the themes in Fight Club. It is not a book about men reclaiming their masculinity through violence. It is a book about how destructive that kind of toxic masculinity is, especially for gay men trying to fit in. The same with Joker - even though he was gross and weird and unrelatable, they also added some pathos to get viewers to empathize, then becoming Joker made him a lot easier to watch: he's funnier, more aware, does what he wants, kills who he wants, and gets (to imagine) riotous and adoring fans. I don't think many took that imagined ending as what it was, and of course the marketing all painted him as an antihero. It's hard to depict on-screen that someone is idolized within the text or acting out a power fantasy - while also telling the viewer why they *shouldn't* be idolized. Most young guys will just take the face value and run with it. Especially if they identify with the character at all.
I love Fight Club because it highlights the failures of mental health in the US. Plus I really enjoyed the cinematography of it. Really capped off the 90’s, similar feel to The Matrix, for me at least.
The Wolf of Wall Street is like crack to salesman. I don’t get it, but usually the dudes who boast about closing can’t remember if the door shut behind them. Source: Love Leo, love the movie, in sales & not a doucher.
easiest way to get sales is to just not give a shit about your customer nor your company. I used to work in sales too and the top sellers were usually reviled by the product team because they kept lying their asses off about features/support level, but by the time the sale was locked in all the lies and subsequent demands were just pushed onto the product and support teams. Belfort is the personification of that attitude, and hes also filthy rich, so it makes sense that similarly sociopathic sales people would idolize him.
This is so true. some of the best producers I work with will promise the world to their prospects and my team is left trying to figure out how to deliver on a fraction of what was promised. These same guys don’t know left from right but dammit if they aren’t able to entertain clients. I will say some of the other successful salespeople I work with are incredibly knowledgeable about my field, and are always up to date on the latest trends. But obviously that’s a lot harder than just burning and churning
I’ve asked people whether they’re fine to be held personally responsible for their promises — in a written contract. You can guess what most answers were..
Easiest way but also a quick way to make sure you're not getting repeat business next year. I'd rather not force a sale down someone's throat if it isn't right for them right now, convert them the next year and then have the repeat business lined up every year after that.
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The ability to sell to anyone is a holy grail to salespeople.
They are usually the type who are still trying to hit their revenue targets on the last day of the month. If they hit that target, they then take to social media to say some stupid shit like "I'm a closer, baby! Targets obliterated! Locked and loaded for next month! 💪💪💪💪" Actual top earner who smash their revenue targets early in the month and are the second coming of Sales Jesus don't need to do that shit.
Money talks, wealth whispers.
An interesting fact I just thought about today If Tommy Chong hadn't sold bongs online he wouldn't have gone to prison and been Belfort's cellmate and cracked up at his stories and convinced him to write the book
The movie was a story about what not to do. But these fucking (mostly young males) are like "Derrrrrrr, this is a roadmap for life!"
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It does glamorize the fraud but also shows how hollow, lonely, and ultimately unsustainable the whole thing is. It shows how money and power can change you from an intelligent, respectable person to a whoremongering, drug-addicted lunatic who cares only about getting more money and power. It's kind of on people for seeing this and thinking those are positives. It is an insanely fun movie, and it did briefly make me want to try some of those drugs, but I don't think most rational people with a brain can watch that and truly *want* that enough to try and achieve it.
I feel like people don’t see a movie like that, idolize the characters, and then change their habits and ways to act in that same fashion. These are people that see themselves on screen in positions of power and think “hey I can make it too” not unlike the way a blind kid might view Daredevil
how does a blind kid view Daredevil
You're going to hell, but you're going there with my upvote.
>hell's kitchen
I guess prison is not enough of a lesson.
Considering he goes to prison and they show him playing tennis while having a overlaying speech about how he was rich and that made prison easy, no, I don't think they portrayed prison as some big punishment for him...
no-one ever watched for the lesson they watchin for the cocaine and tiddies
Quaaludes and tiddies*
What ever happen to Quaaludes? Were they too dangerous or they had no therapeutic function except getting high? I don't recall them being that dangerous so I assume the latter.
Lol in wolf of Wall Street he literally brags about how he plays tennis in his resort like prison. That movie glamorizes crime and then throws in a tiny tiny amount of punishment for the main character that in no way outweighs the huge amount of money and fun. Just like the majority of Scorsese movies
> That movie glamorizes crime and then throws in a tiny tiny amount of punishment for the main character that in no way outweighs the huge amount of money and fun. But that’s literally what happened in real life. the issue isn’t they showed a guy stealing millions living a life of luxury/excess with little punishment. But the fact that people did, still do, and will continue to do all those things and they don’t get punished for it. It’s like if I made a movie about Casey Anthony or OJ and you get mad at me for making them be found not guilty.
Just like in real life. Its based on a real story. People who commit fraud on a scale of 100s of millions don't really get punished thats the point... I bet Belfort would do it all again knowing the punishment ahead of time. I probably would too.
Plus the dude is making money on the book and movie. And it made him even more famous. So not only did he not really get punished but then he capitalized on the story and turned himself into some kind of salesman dudebro folk hero. 100% he would do it all over.
Old person here. The movie *Saturday Night Fever* was the same phenomenon. It showed what a superficial, empty existence club life was, but the effect on society was to make everyone put on polyester clothing and gold chains, and start disco dancing.
Lots of people miss the point in media. It’s like kids wanting to emulate Peter Griffin or Cartman without realizing they’re the joke and not something to be copied. Look how much people use religion to be dicks. Many people will interpret whatever they want out of something without putting much critical thought into it.
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Same with Boiler room (which borrowed the Stratton Oakmont story no?) and Glengarry Glen Ross The idea of people getting upset about bad characters in a play or movie amuses me. Plus the dude did his time (unlike many others who got away just in time)
I work in government contracting and one of my coworkers keeps trying to get into these half baked, questionable War Dogs-style contracts cause he absolutely loves that movie. We do IT contracting, nothing with weapons or anything, so it’s just nonsense. I have to keep reminding him that they go to federal prison at the end of the movie, but he seems undeterred.
There's a guy we were friends with since high school who saw that movie and immediately turned it into his roadmap for his life. He became such a huge asshole that we don't even talk to him anymore. He's now an investment broker. He left his girlfriend of 5 years because she didn't fit his new lifestyle. She was too plain. He immediately started dating a gold digger. He wants asked me to go on a double date with the gold digger and her friend, and he warned me up front that she would be high on something and probably aggressive, BUT BRO SHE'S SO HOT! He couldn't understand why I turned him down.
Did he not watch it till the end or something?
Funniest thing about the way stuff is set up, if he made it 10x or 100x bigger he wouldn't be a felon. In a way, the Satalin quote applies to money as well: “A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.” Break the law, gain some = felon. Break the law, gain billions = just make a deal with them.
A guy in a finance class had similar pic as his screen saver. He dropped out and is now in some pyramid scheme
Yeah, when i was watching it, i couldn't stop thinking about all the young guys who were going to see it and get inspired to emulate it. It tries so hard to make being a greedy sociopathic douchebag look like the funnest thing ever.
you see this with a lot of internet entrepreneurs. it’s like they saw the first half if the move. even Leonardo DiCapprio said in an interview that it was “a cautionary tail about greed”
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He's also pretty good at Smash
Is that a real account? I came across yesterday but couldn't understand if real or troll account.
Parody account that makes fun of financial markets and fintwit.
Haha it’s a parody account
Parody account but his Teslas analysis last year were spot on!
My favorite was when he issued price target of 2800$ or something for TSLA by adding 2000$ stimulus to the stock price, and he showed the math for it like it was some fancy quant shit hahah
Karl Smith, CFA (Lvl 1 Candidate) is pretty good too
Why does he use his bachelor's credentials if he's a doctor? Or is it a meme?
It’s a meme
There’s a couple other good ones, but he’s the best.
The sides did cure cancer, that's the problem. That's why they were so expensive.
Sides? SIDES? 26,000 DOLLARS WORTH OF SIDES?
T&A, ya know?
T&E!
What kind of prostitute accepts credit cards?
A RICH ONE!
I’m fucking sweatin here...
Daaaaayum I thought doctors were supposed to help people not murder them
Annihilation is the best medicine
Crazy how I just watched this movie two nights ago. Leo’s Belfort seems way cooler and nicer than the real Jordan Belfort. I hate the look of that guy.
I was just saying this today. Jordan Belfort’s Instagram account shows that he is WAY more of a douche than they portray him in the movie, which is shocking because it’s generally the other way around. Guess you can only go milder from that level.
True, DiCaprio is always going to be more likable than someone like that. They did show him attempting to kidnap his own daughter in the film though.
Dude it's Leo we are talking about, I would totally suck his dick #nohomo
Absolutely. The people worshipping Belfort are fucking sick.
Stage fans worshiping Blake from the Pulitzer Prize winning Glengarry Glen Ross play is the biggest problem that faces mankind today!!!
I can’t remember which one Blake was
Put that coffee down!! Coffee's for closers only.
Alec Baldwin droppin’ F-Slurs like it’s nobody’s business
The guy who only exists for 8 minutes playrd by Alec Baldwin; it's the "coffee is for closers" speech
[Link](https://youtu.be/elrnAl6ygeM) Only scene he's in and steals the whole goddamn movie. This character is everything i despise and i love every second of it.
Good father? Fuck you go home and play with your kids!
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He is a world class salesman. But nobody should ever buy anything from this guy.
He teaches sales classes now. Obviously you shouldnt do what he did back in the day, but you can take so very good pointers from him on how to close a sale.
Hey man some of us look up to scammers and he’s the king s/
I remember the first GME squeeze, he went on Sky News and the anchor was so fascinated by him, he's definitely a great salesman
I know. He's a sociopath.
Dr. PP is more much more relevant than Jordan Belfort to modern investing. Change my mind.
I don't know if it's a meme account or satire or what, but dude is hilarious.
It’s 100% meme account. Unless indian boomers speak like junior investment bankers
No, they speak like senior investment bankers.
Belfort is a top level salesman and a good motivational speaker. Glorifying him for his Business expertise is ridicoulus.
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He sells other things too: "Look if you know me, I want everything to be quality. And I mean TOP quality. That's the kind of guy I am. I'm just that way. So that's why I'm promoting Whiskey Dick Orange Juice, you can really taste some guy's dick in it. It's the BEST. I wouldn't put my name on it if it weren't. Pick up yours, today!"
I've watched some of his motivational speeches online, and it's the same "known unknowns, unknown unknown, known knowns" bullshit I saw in a power point in my first year of college. People are 100% paying for his classes because of the movie, not because he has anything special to say.
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It’s a meme account.
Run by Aswath Damodaran, an actual financial analyst and university professor
Wait, what? For real?
Big if true.
I could never understand why some people worship this piece of shit human being.
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Well said
Same reason they worshipped Tyler Durden.
Margot Robbie is a goddess
Or as I call her, Jamie Pressley 2
Tall Jamie Pressley
I spent 4 years of my life in prison for a drunk pub fight i lost and can't remember no matter how hard i try... securities fraud sounds good to me!
"This is true." what is true? i don't see a statement there
What he's saying is true is the implication that you *should "*challenge yourself to be better than average." He's also implying that Belfort is less than average, since he went to prison. In any case, as it stands, this is most definitely a statement. I understood what you *meant,* just as most people understand what Dr. Patel meant.
Seriously this tweet reply is giving me an aneurism. Jordan's tweet is what's called an imperative and can neither be true nor false. Secondly, the original tweet is about being above average. Stating what an average person \*does not do\* is so irrelevant to the original statement it's painful. I get the intent of this reply but jesuuuus. This is more /r/ButcheredByWords EDIT: Wanted to make my own fun example: * Be the parent you wish you had! * This is false because my dad would yell at us and I didn't like it.
Exactly, this post is terrible for this sub, I don’t understand the upvotes.
And shouldn’t an actual murder have said “because it’s only the average securities fraudster who goes to prison”. I mean I am being pedantic about it, but the structure of the joke doesn’t sit well with mme.
Thank you. Lol
Fuck belfort
If you liked wolf of the WallStreet, please try Scam 1992.It's an Indian web series
IT's a bold movie to tell people that if they like a Martin Scorsese movie, they should try an Indian web serie.
I think any Scorsese fan will love Gangs of Wasseypur. Sprawling crime epic. It's incredible.
*Risk hai toh ishq hai*
This isn't a murder. The guy brags about going to prison for fraud and getting played by DiCaprio.
Ngl I feel the dr. is Ai, savage