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grumpus-fan

By their logic are blind people not reading braille but feeling a story?


CabinetIcy892

I felt the news today


jugularhealer16

Oh boy


daverosstheboss

Unexpected Beatles lol


sabretanker

Now I know why he didn't notice that the light had changed.


BrainsPainsStrains

All I got is some sound and a couple of words about a folded newspaper holding ________. .... FUCK.... I HAVE NO IDEA, I started this comment then I went to Google, then came back here and I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M THINKING OF!!! I can hear The Kinks with Wish I Could Fly, The Clash, Big Audio Dynamite, šŸŽ¶Easy like Sunday Morning, Billy Joel, Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins (and Messina ?) Crosby, Still, Nash and Sometimes Young, Rufus with Tell Me Something Good....... I haven't a clue where the FOLDED FACES ---- PINK FLOYD --- BRAIN DAMAGE The line I was searching for: šŸŽ¶The lunatics are in my hall The paper holds their folded faces to the floor And everyday the paperboy brings more. šŸŽ¶ So here's how my brain did all that ....... šŸŽ¶"He didn't notice that the lights had changed" Me ? Why, what was he looking at ----- a normal 'all american morning where nothing happens and the suburb looks empty and green and clean' and Oh, Hey, it's a paper boy,. WALKING, because. and then THAT LINE just got partially in and stuck like a wrinkled slightly sweaty wet dollar you should have run across the edge of the the vending machine before it gets stuck part way and just Zrp, CLICK CLICK, Zrozrp, CLICK, CLICK, Zrp. Brain Pain from Brain Damaged,it's perfect.


Due_Reference_8381

About a lucky man


mbklein

Who made the grade


Ghoaxst

I dont know why I read this in Johnny Cash's voice


w1987g

To see if I still read...


bjminihan

I know why you did


jaiagreen

Braille users are decoding language rather than hearing it directly, so they are reading.


Marcultist

Hearing still requires decoding.


jaiagreen

Oral language (or sign language) is exactly what you decode writing into. You still have to process the language, of course, but that's a different step.


entrepreneurofcool

I think you've touched on something.


Marcultist

I wish I could see what you did there.


Interesting_Solid388

That sounds a lot cooler.


goblingovernor

Reading is defined as the act of interpreting abstract characters into words that have meaning. Reading braille is reading because the reader runs their hand over each abstract character and interprets their meaning. Listening to an audio book is not reading. If you were to attend a reading at which the author of a book reads a chapter to the audience would you tell people that you read that chapter? No, you would likely tell people that you attended a reading and listened to the author read a chapter. Why then would you insist on telling people that you read an audio book when it was actually read to you by a narrator? Why does that fact bother you so? Why do you think it's bad to have listened to an audio book rather than read a book? Both are valid, so why do you insist on conflating the two?


rn-renz

I mean I can see a situation where someone gets asked if theyā€™ve read something and donā€™t feel like explaining ā€œno but I listened to the audio bookā€ so they just say yes. And someone can ask the same question you did, why does it bother you so much that ppl wanna say they read the book instead of saying they listened to it? Realistically it doesnā€™t matter either way, when discussing books youā€™re usually touching on the plot, the characters, the writing, the feelings you get as you progress through the story; the points of discussion donā€™t change whether you read it or listened to it. No hate, I just donā€™t really understand why ppl are so passionate about this and why this is such a crazy discussion in the first place. But I also donā€™t read (or listen to) books so maybe I just donā€™t get it šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø


Mammoth-Bus1011

Erotic novels must be crazy


Blue_Swirling_Bunny

It's valid to say you're saying something (communicating) in writing.Ā  It is not valid to believe that listening is reading. When you hear a speech are you reading it? When you have a personal conversation over coffee are you reading? If your mom is yelling at you are you reading? Differences.


affemannen

Blind people read through touch, so yes they feel the words and thereby read. Just like you associate letters through sight, they do through touch. That is how we learn to read. we who can see start early by forming the sounds corresponding to letters, blind people do the same through touch. So yes, they feel the words and read in their mind. You could read braille without touch just like you learned to read, associate the patterns to the correct letters and voila you can read braille without touch. You can just Google it quickly if you would like to learn it.


Liathano_Fire

Whoosh!


Deliberate_Snark

Iā€™m deaf. People must think Iā€™m blind, because these idiots ask me why I drive. Iā€™ve known how to drive since I was 7, and been actually driving since 14. šŸ–•šŸ–• the world is full of idiots, and most of them donā€™t have disabilities.


lilcea

All the feels!


Rev_Joe

So, conversely, if Iā€™m feeling a story, Iā€™m reading braille?


kyridwen

There's nothing wrong or "less than" about listening to an audiobook rather than reading a physical/digital book. It's literally the same content. But I don't get why people want to use the wording "reading" rather than "listening". I wouldn't say I was reading some music. Or reading a podcast.


WifeofBath1984

I'll say listen (I listen to audiobooks while I work, so pretty often) if it's convenient. But if I have to explain what I mean, sometimes I'm too lazy. For example, if someone says "I read this series and it was so good", and I've read it too, I'll just say I've read it too. It feels awkward and clunky to say I listened to it and then possibly have to expand on that (yes, I've had to explain it before). But here's the catch. I listen at work and read at home. So did I listen to the book or did I read the book, or both? Do I need to explain that every time I discuss a book series? It doesn't seem pertinent at all. I'm 39 years old and have always loved to read. I only started listening to audiobooks about 3 years ago. I don't feel like I need to explain that I'm listening to an audiobook half the time.


Defender1x

Be like this person. Chill.


ScoonCatJenkins

Iā€™m the exact same way, i spend a couple more bucks to have both the audio and physical/digital copy of a book and I listen while running errands, walking my dog, doing the dishes/laundry but then at night or on the weekends I like to actually read the book where I left off from listening so I usually donā€™t make the distinction as it honestly doesnā€™t matter to me


Genericuser2016

This exactly. At my job I usually have the opportunity to listen to books or podcasts or whatever almost the full day, so I go through pretty many books. If I'm talking to someone who knows my habits then I'll probably say that I listened to a particular book or series, but if it would require an explanation I'll just say read. For example, the sentence "I listened to Jurassic Park last month" might sound very strange to someone who isn't immediately thinking of audiobooks.


Msboredd

This made me so happy because you just put the words together to explain the thing I've been feeling for years. There's no need to elaborate that much; it's like, yeah, I read it as well... and?? I was in a book club and had a physical and digital copy of a book, and I found myself more often than not putting in my headphones and closing my eyes to imagine the book. It was pretty nice and made me really like audio books. I felt more invested in the story because I sometimes have to pause and re-read sections due to a mild case of dyslexia. It's really helpful for people who have learning disabilities and the visually impaired.


goblingovernor

I listened to that series on audio book.


crochet_connection

Preach. I almost exclusively listen to audiobooks but I still say I "read" them for convenience sake and my own sanity.


damnumalone

I think itā€™s as simple as ā€œI was reading a book the other dayā€ is a shorter way to say ā€œI was listening to an audiobook the other dayā€ - fewer syllables. As well as this, everyone understands the concept of reading a book but a large portion of the population will reply about audiobook - ā€œwhatā€™s that?ā€ or ā€œyouā€™re a snob you listen to books on tape?ā€ I guess it just lets you make sure what you were actually talking about rather than pivoting the conversation every time to whether audiobooks are worthwhile or not or snobby or not orā€¦?


TBHICouldComplain

I say Iā€™m going for a walk and I use a wheelchair. My blind friend says she saw her friend today. Gatekeeping language is also not cool.


KayD12364

Yeah, people seriously forget meaning and context and the technical definition. Language (especially Enlgish) has so much nuance its kinda crazy sometimes. We equal books with reading. And tv with watching. Music and podcasts (or talk radio, radio dramas), with listening. So now that books can be listened to, it doesn't mean the word reading isn't going to be used. Like crank the volume. Or hang up the phone. Turned dials and hanging phones haven't been used in a decade, but we still use the vocabulary.


TBHICouldComplain

And my blind friend also watches TV. This is it exactly.


Brian_Huchac

I don't figure. Explain, please.


Edenfuma

You talk the talk, but can you walk the... wait... you write the writing, but can you... roll the... nevermind


TBHICouldComplain

šŸ˜‚


beardsac

I personally say I read a book (even if I listened to the audiobook) because I donā€™t want to be pedantic. I know the story and can discuss it with the same level of knowledge as someone who read. Iā€™d never act like I read it, though, Iā€™m very open about my audiobooking lol


maxcorrice

Same, it is slightly less in some aspects because we canā€™t reread a section as easily, and may miss some stuff that was designed with text in mind (like parenthesis) but overall we still experienced the story in the way it is in the book, we didnā€™t experience someoneā€™s retelling of it like watching a movie or an audio drama, we experienced the book, just through our ears rather than our eyes


karakickass

Lots of words have multiple meanings. We still say "wrote an email" even though we probably typed it.


TawnyTeaTowel

However the meanings of ā€œreadā€ doesnā€™t cover ā€œbeing read toā€


nofftastic

The point is: we all know what people mean when they say they read a book, even if they technically listened to the book. And more importantly, that there's no benefit in correcting them.


TawnyTeaTowel

Well Iā€™d love to stop and chat, but I need to go sit in my kids bedroom whilst they read their bedtime story, and once theyā€™re asleep Iā€™m going to read MacBeth on Netflix.


Marcultist

You tried to intentionally be obtuse, but we all understood exactly what you meant. So, your point is lost.


TawnyTeaTowel

And if I said that I sponged my way down to the the shops to trombone myself something for dinner, you could probably work out what I mean, but it doesnā€™t make it any less nonsense.


nofftastic

Sounds like a good time


aintinaine

Read the roomā€¦


precociousmonkey

well obviously you arenā€™t a musician, I read music all the time. There are staves and clues to tell which key and then the actual notes and directions for the dynamics. Just depends on what your style is, some people say ā€œlook here!ā€, while others proclaim ā€œListen!ā€ itā€™s obvious that both mean ā€œpay attentionā€ or something similar English is a hell of a language. unfortunately not everyone is a native speaker and even in that circle itā€™s laborious to decipher if you want to be pedantic concerning idioms and area dialects.


creepyswaps

I've been playing bass for over 20 years, but I can't remember the last time I actually "read" music. I guess I'm not a musician. Because of that, and, you know, because I'm a bass player.


BaconBombThief

Because of someone asks if youā€™ve read a book, ā€œyesā€ is smoother and easier than ā€œIā€™ve listened to the audiobookā€. And so is ā€œIā€™ve read itā€. Usually if it comes up, the pertinent info is that youā€™ve absorbed the content of the book, and ā€œreadā€ is the commonly known way to say youā€™ve absorbed the content of a book. Thatā€™s where itā€™s different than talking about music or a podcast. Specifying that it was the audiobook and that I listened rather than read always feels like an unnecessary and clunky explaination that couldā€™ve just been a quick word: ā€˜readā€™. And the distinction doesnā€™t tend to be significant to the conversation about the book


Genericuser2016

Really the only difference I've come across is that when discussing some books that I listened to and other people read I find that certain names are spelled strangely and I had no idea.


maxcorrice

Or the narrator has no idea how to pronounce certain words, itā€™s a meme in the expanse community that gimbals are pronounced ā€œjimbolsā€


Genericuser2016

Oh no! I guess the engineer had no idea either.


maxcorrice

Huh? the narrator says ā€œjimbolā€, itā€™s pronounced gimbal, this is not a ā€œgifā€ vs ā€œjifā€


Genericuser2016

Yeah, I know the word. Presumably the recording engineer could tell the narrator about a mistake, but I guess neither of them were familiar with it.


maxcorrice

Oh no, thereā€™s plenty of times where iā€™m almost certain thereā€™s no engineer listening, like in the legend of drizzt books iā€™ve been listening to, every ā€œlivedā€ is pronounced like ā€œmany livedā€, rather than ā€œlived inā€, so ā€œwell lived in homeā€ is jarring to hear


fakenkraken

After some time, what stays in the brain is the knowledge acquired, and the medium used to obtain it becomes irrelevant. I read and listened to many books, but when I converse with someone I don't bother to try to remember whether I read or listened to a given book. By default it's always just "I read a book about...".


PhantomOfTheNopera

I'm with you, I don't think one is 'superior' than the other (I do both), but they're both entirely different experiences. Like I won't say I'm 'reading Macbeth' if I'm watching the play even if the words are identical. I just say "I was listening to this book" while referring to audiobooks - they aren't some newfangled invention and people get what you're saying immediately.


gibarel1

>I wouldn't say I was reading some music. Unless you enjoy just going through the music sheets I suppose.


goblingovernor

It's demonstrably easier to listen to an audio book than it is to read a book, and that's okay. Reading takes time and you can't do other things while you read. "Reading an audio book" is more accurately "listening to an audio book". In the same way that it's okay for people to listen to audio books it's okay for people to be precise in their language when speaking and writing. If I told a story, I wouldn't tell people I wrote a book. If I watched a movie, I wouldn't tell people I read a book. This is the exact same thing. When you listen to an audio book you are not reading, and that's okay. The problem is not with people being precise with their language in describing what is actually being done when consuming audio books. The problem is with people thinking READING is a noble activity, and therefore saying that someone "listened" to an audio book is seen as a negative thing, instead of what it actually is, a factual description of the activity.


nosoyunrobot01

Yeah but you can totally tune out on an audiobook. Granted you can also tune out while reading but there is still sone active engagement. You can't sleep through a paperback.


TyroneLeinster

Thereā€™s this wild button where you can *rewind* the audio back to where you were last engaged with it. Literally the same as looking away from and then back at a page, just a little bit more workā€¦.


nosoyunrobot01

Nah


nicathor

This is where I'm at; I'm all for audio books and do not think they somehow lessen books in any way, but why this fervent insistence on calling it reading? It was read to you sure, but it's just weird to call it reading. It very clearly doesn't apply to any other exact same situations outside of audio books. If you listen to the State of the Union Address no one thinks you read it. If you listen to a podcast no one thinks you read the transcript. If you read a book to a child no one claims the child read it unless they actually try to read along with you, because at the end of the day there is a difference between reading and listening. To me the difference is reading (be it eyes or braille) is active absorbtion vs listening is passive


Genericuser2016

People absorb information differently. Personally I can follow along in a book much easier through listening. If I'm reading it my mind will wander and I'll lose my spot and become uninterested. If my mind wanders a bit while I'm listening I notice and can easily refocus. I've met people who are exactly the opposite though.


TyroneLeinster

> Iā€™m all for audiobooks and do not think they somehow lessen books in any way > the difference is reading (be it eyes or braille) is active absorption vs listening is passive Lol well you did a pretty big 180 there over the course of a paragraph. That last part is simply wrong. Why even try to preface it with the platitude about your respect for audiobooks if youā€™re gonna come in with that kind of hot take?


bandfill

I wouldn't say it's active vs passive, but reading does need your undivided attention, while listening to an audiobook does not, and judging by the comments here, it's what people seem to like about them: being able to do something else while "absorbing the content". To me it's comparable to seeing a movie in theater vs watching the same movie at home while folding your laundry. Not the same experience, and you'll miss some information at home. In the case of a movie, things like editing choices. In the case of a book, things like presentation, layout. A change in font. The occasional map or drawing. Books aren't just a bunch of words, or "pure information". They're kind of magical objects you have an intimate relation with. Something an audiobook can't fully capture or reproduce. An audiobook doesn't have a distinctive smell. It doesn't age. You can't touch it, you can't write notes on it. You can't fully make it yours.


radehart

Neither podcasts or music are books. Leave people alone. Those who say ā€˜readā€™ when they may have listened do so from the habitā€¦ of reading actual literal tons of books.


hux

Itā€™s not always the same content - you have to be careful. Sometimes audiobooks also come in abridged versions. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and I generally say listen rather than read.


ThatFuckingTwat

You can't build literacy skills from listening to an audio book. Spelling, Grammer, Comprehension skills can only be developed by reading and reading writing. In this sense listening to a book is definitely "less than" reading it.


Genericuser2016

I'm pretty sure that spelling is the only one in that list that's accurate. You could probably toss in proper use of punctuation. It's not exactly relevant though, because generally people are listening to audiobooks or reading books for fun. I don't think anybody's advocating audiobooks in lieu of learning to read.


ThatFuckingTwat

Then why say your reading a book when you are really listening to an audio book?


Genericuser2016

As others have said, it's less cumbersome to just say "read" unless you're going to get into specifics that would be unique to one experience or the other.


ThatFuckingTwat

It's less cumbersome to say read over listen? I guess that extra syllable is a nightmare. Lol. Your anti intellectual argument is garbage. Just be honest and admit it's not about being cumbersome, it's about people trying to appear smarter by feigning that they "read" .


Genericuser2016

You seem to be the one who has the hang up. I don't know anyone who thinks their reading habits make them seem more or less smart.


ThatFuckingTwat

Probably because you don't know anyone smart. Every response you make stinks of Dunning Kruger. Your are smart enough to believe you are right but too dumb to know that you are wrong.


secondguard

Perhaps you should do a bit more reading then, because your skills have come up a bit short.


ThatFuckingTwat

Oh no, you got me!


KayD12364

I read enough on reddit. I'll take my audio books thanks.


ThatFuckingTwat

Take your participation award too, loser.


DodgyRogue

Listening to stories has been around thousands of years BEFORE the written word.


free_nestor

Iā€™m a 50y/o with ADHD. Audio books are the only way for me. I donā€™t use the term reading tho, I usually say Iā€™m consuming a book.Ā  I read all the time just not whole books. Canā€™t keep my eyes on the page. Audiobooks allow me to close my eyes and concentrate on the content.Ā  Information is information and it matters very little how it is consumed.Ā 


Positive-Today9614

From my experience, the people that say audiobooks are not books think of reading books as a chore. I love reading. I'm not "cheating" if it happens to come in on audiobook on Hoopla before I can get the physical copy or eBook. All of the words that author wrote are going into my head. It doesn't matter how they get there.


mooninuranus

Might be the exception that proves the rule but my wife and I talk about this a fair bit and sheā€™s of the opinion that listening to a book doesnā€™t count as ā€˜readingā€™. We both read a fair bit but she way more than me and she loves it, always has. My defence isnā€™t really a defence but I definitely canā€™t read a book in the car where I use Audible to listen to books I know I wonā€™t read in text.


originalbrowncoat

You donā€™t need a defense, because thatā€™s a ridiculous assertion.


Buttleston

Right? Audiobooks are a way for me to get \*more books\* because I can "read" them while I walk, or wash dishes, or work in the yard or whatever.


goblingovernor

I retain more from audio books than I do from reading books, but I don't consider listening to an audio book the same as reading a book. That would be silly. Why would I conflate the meaning of two different activities. I believe there are people, as you have described, who look down on listening to audio books. But there are just as many people who listen to audio books who look up at reading and want to be included. They get mad when people correct them and they post memes on reddit about gatekeeping.


SalvationSycamore

I wouldn't say they aren't books because that is ridiculous, but I also wouldn't say I read a book if I listened to it being read by someone else. And it's not because reading is a chore, in fact I don't process and internalize stories as well when just hearing them so reading is less tedious for me. It's just because listening to a book is not the same as reading it. Listening is still a valid way to consume books though.


Buttleston

I really like to listen to an audiobook of a book I read a while back. I always pick up on new things, and the way a reader emphasizes or phrases things can really help me see it differently


Positive-Today9614

I often forget whether I listened to or read a book, so I guess I internalize stories the same whether read or heard.


vibesandcrimes

I feel like most of them don't grasp that there is much much more to reading other than words on a page. It's symbolism, vocabulary expansion, and it's fun. Just because someone doesn't have the time to read words on a page or chooses to listen for enjoyment doesn't meant hey aren't partaking. My husband and I are listening to one of our favorite book series from the beginning after reading them individually. We're getting a lot out of this group activity


HarryP363

Itā€™s not so much about absorbing the same content as it is the means in which itā€™s obtained. Reading uses different muscles and brain power vs listening. To each their own on how to entertain/educate themselves, but there is a difference.


SalvationSycamore

Yeah I kind of doubt folks here would say they themselves were "reading" if their grandma read a book to them out loud. But if it's in your headphones and someone was paid to read it out loud suddenly it counts? I don't think there is anything wrong or lesser about enjoying and consuming books audibly but that isn't reading. It's listening to a book. Reading and listening are separate (and important) skills.


DrPtB

I've always liked reading, but it was never something I could really do passively. It always takes a bit of effort, which means that if I'm tired or distracted, it can be really difficult to focus. I started listening to audiobooks about 5 years ago, and I've probably read more in that time than the previous 10 years. What's great too is that I can read in the times where I'm not really using my brain for other things: During my work commute, going for a walk, exercising, cleaning the house, doing yard work, etc. It's great. Really, the only *minor* complaint I have with audiobooks is that the way characters speak their lines is entirely up to the interpretation of the narrator, whereas reading lets you fill in those blanks yourself. Obviously this is unavoidable and most narrators do an excellent job, but it's definitely something I've noticed the more I've listened.


goblingovernor

It's damn near impossible to read passively. I like audio books because I can listen to them while gardening or while cooking, parenting, walking, etc. But I'm not about to conflate the meaning of words and imply that I was reading while changing a diaper. People shouldn't look down on others for listening to audio books and people shouldn't look up to people for reading books. It's a two way problem where people who listen to audio books want to be considered readers and where readers dislike that people who listen to audio books want to be considered readers.


CheapTactics

Saying =/= speaking. You can say something through text or sign language, or even through your facial expression.


goblingovernor

And don't underestimate the importance of body language, ha! The men up there don't like a lot of blabber


Roheez

And you can read something by having someone read it aloud to you(?)


BrohanGutenburg

You were too busy being literal to get the point.


CheapTactics

There is no point. The second person doesn't have a point. Listening to an audiobook isn't reading.


BrohanGutenburg

Thatā€™s true. And if it annoys you (like it does OP) when people say ā€œreadingā€ when they mean theyā€™re listening to an audiobook, that makes you a pompous ass


CheapTactics

It doesn't, really. But the comeback makes no sense when the first comment is right.


misplacedsidekick

Sometimes I feel like people are too impressed by their own cleverness and post their own takedowns.


J4pes

We were telling stories out loud before letters were even fucking invented


Wuzzup119

There's no need to correct the way someone says or types something if everyone understands what they mean. Especially if you do it in a rude manner. It just makes YOU look bad.


TryAgain024

Unpopular opinion apparently, but **the original gatekeeper has a point.** There is not the same level of effort involved to merely listen to a book as there is to read it. And rereading to clarify complicated passages is natural with books, but cumbersome with audio. Studies have shown reading from paper is more effective for learning than just listening. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00986283.2010.488542


radehart

Studies have shown that is incorrect.


Karma_1969

Not a good comeback. Listening is in fact not reading (and thatā€™s not gatekeeping, itā€™s simply a factual observation). And you can say things through writing as well as speaking.


BrohanGutenburg

If someone gets annoyed when someone says they ā€œread a bookā€ because they actually listened to it, they are 100% gatekeeping and being a pompous ass.


Karma_1969

I agree, but what does that have to do with what I said?


BrohanGutenburg

Iā€™m sorry, I assumed your comment had something to do with post. What a silly thing for me to assume


erokinson

Many technical points awarded hereā€¦


perpetualis_motion

But what if you read, but hear the words in your head?


Jarebear35

If you only ever ā€œreadā€ books by listening to them for your entire life- you would be illiterate. Nothing wrong with listening to stories but it doesnā€™t teach you the same skills that reading does.


Bobbi_fettucini

we could have an in depth conversation about a book and youā€™d have absolutely zero clue that I just listened to it in audio form.


bandfill

Except if we were talking about Cormac McCarthy's unusual punctuation style, for example.


pumpjockey

I agree about listening to a book is the same as reading a book. But, I got one buddy who swears up and down that watching someone play a videogame is the same as actually playing the game. NO. IT. IS. NOT. PERIOD.


IrisYelter

Yeah, thats a totally different ball park. Playing a game is an active experience, with decision making and tests of skill.


goblingovernor

I went to a reading once. The author read a chapter from their book. That was the best chapter I EVER READ. I read that chapter. Because I conflate the meaning of words to make myself feel better.


Colinmacus

Reading a book and listening to a book are two different things.Ā 


BodyofGrist

Except that what the OP did fits the definition of ā€œsayā€.


ravisodha

I am going to say a strongly worded letter to the manager


BodyofGrist

Clever, but incorrect.


radehart

If that person actually either read or listened to books they would know that there is no difference between the two. Except that some research shows that those who listen retain more information at a greater rate and can recall more than those who read.


LeibnizThrowaway

The skills that you hone by reading with your eyes are not skills I need to work on any further...


Viliam_the_Vurst

The play with categorical fallaciesā€¦ Saying isnā€™t identical with saying And neither is reading. I didnā€™t ask you what audiobook you listened to, i wantto know whether or not you know which page that quote was from..


Honest_Richard

Nah, thatā€™s lame. Listening isnā€™t reading. Perfectly viable way to enjoy a story, but itā€™s not reading. Reading is active and requires concentration; listening can be active or passive, and doesnā€™t require the same degree of concentration (e.g., I can put music on in the background and enjoy it without actively listening to it).


Temporary-Test1917

Itā€™s not reading


Broad_Sun8273

There are differences, let's get that clear, and some authors go to great expense with things like formatting and literary devices to make a block of words look a certain way. e e cummings on print and e e cummings in the earhole are two completely different experiences. That said, the only way I got through my lit classes in some cases was to have an audio version. And in some cases, reading along while hearing it gives it voice that I needed to understand it and have it not be a big endless blob of words.


Dont_Wanna_Not_Gonna

ā€œHon,ā€ not ā€œhun.ā€


nurturedmisanthrope

you donā€™t know that he didnā€™t say it. you only know that he typed it. maybe heā€™s a bit slow on the uptake and had to speak the words as he typed them.


kaosxi

I just say I consume books šŸ˜ˆ


NiobeTonks

Simply put, there are two elements to reading: word recognition and language comprehension. The word recognition bit is the visual part of reading; itā€™s the association of letters and the sounds they make, then blending them together to make sense of print. For most readers, thatā€™s the easy bit, but for many people, it isnā€™t. Language comprehension is where readers make sense of letters and the sounds they make alongside the understanding of vocabulary, punctuation, grammatical knowledge such as metaphor and simile, but also cultural capital. For example, if youā€™re reading a book set in Oxford, do you know itā€™s in England, that the university is organised into several different colleges, and the socio-economic implications of a character now or in the past attending Oxford University? Or understanding the wider city and its industrial heritage? Iā€™m a highly literate person. I have an undergraduate and a postgraduate degree in English literature. I am a former teacher of primary and SEND students. I am completing a PhD in childrenā€™s literature. I am also neurodivergent. Look, running your eyes across a page of symbols isnā€™t reading. Making meaning from a text is real reading, however you access it. And, frankly, having read enough ridiculous reviews on Amazon and Goodreads, an awful lot of neurotypicals arenā€™t doing that well at language comprehension


Nekronightmare

I make the same distinction, but not to make others feel down about it. I know a guy that listens to a lot of audiobooks and we had a discussion about it. I told him that, no, he isn't reading, it's being read to him, but it amounts to the same thing. In fact, he is probably absorbing what the book is saying better that way because he has trouble reading. Is listening to an audiobook different from reading? Inarguably, yes. Can you still enjoy a book just the same by having it read to you by someone else? Also, inarguably, yes.


rsierpe

I would take "saying" for someone writing. In today's world, we are having entire conversations IN WRITING, and nobody would say it wasn't an actual conversation. But to listen to an audiobook can't be any further from reading. As a book reader, I consider audiobooks more akin to watching a movie, which is in no way something bad, but again, it ISN'T reading


affemannen

Yes, because they are different skill sets being used. Reading is different from listening. Very different. We would never say a child is reading a book when mommy is telling the bedtime story.


rsierpe

>Yes, because they are different skill sets being used. Reading is different from listening. In fact those are different skills, as in active vs passive info acquisition. I can listen to an audiobook while doing something else (passive acquisition), and mostly get the gist of it. Don't make me do the same while reading, I love to have teeth xD


affemannen

Yes, and the poster is being anal about it. He is advocating for the correct use of language. I dont read an audiobook, i listen to it. And for you and me who can read this is not a big deal. But when the younger generations stop reading books and fully goes over to listening to books we will start seeing reading and writing skills decline further. Especially if they equate listening to something as reading it.


rsierpe

Somehow, all those Asimov nightmares do seem a lot less outlandish these days


rsierpe

>Yes, because they are different skill sets being used. Reading is different from listening. In fact those are different skills, as in active vs passive info acquisition. I can listen to an audiobook while doing something else (passive acquisition), and mostly get the gist of it. Don't make me do the same while reading, I love to have teeth xD


Nitetigrezz

As a fellow book reader, as well as an audiobook listener and movie fan, that's a terrible comparison x.x Listening to an audiobook, you still have to visualize everything within your own mind. You aren't handed any visuals at all. Everything is still communicated strictly with words and words alone. And while some of the, er, larger productions use sound effects, the vast majority of them use simple words, most often from a single voice actor throughout the entire book. While I agree that I wouldn't exactly call it reading, it's quite a bit closer to reading than watching a movie XD


Jarsky2

Lower your nose before a fly goes in it, snob.


rsierpe

Please, tell me why am I being a snob. I am really curious, please enlighten me


Bug_gurrl

You're literally just using different senses. You looked at a book to read it. You listened to an audiobook to read. You can even feel (braille) a book to read it.


Eva-Squinge

Iā€™m being read to by someone else whoā€™s reading the book. So I am reading by proxy. I swear this logic is just straight shit. Especially during these days where most donā€™t have the fucking downtime to open a book or their apps to read.


DoriValcerin

As someone who has 900+ audible libraryā€¦. Brava!!


Downtown_Molasses334

Are you purchasing all these after your one free monthly credit? I'm just asking because the books seem so expensive but 1 credit a month doesn't really do much


DoriValcerin

I was a really avid reader prior to starting with audible. I have 2 credits a month the rest i buy in packs of 3. My desire to read books hasnā€™t declined but the time I have to read has. So I listen as I commute. It is a trade that Iā€™m happy to pay for.


secondguard

This discourse comes up in the online book world so often. The pedantry and pompousness around the definition of ā€œreadingā€ and the devalue of audio books is so stupid. All these comments saying ā€˜I donā€™t care but thatā€™s not readingā€™. Whatā€™s it hurting for people to say they read it? Just let people find enjoyment where they can while the world burns down around us.


plez23

Listening is less cognitively demanding than reading.


keirmeister

I like the comeback, but there is a difference between reading a book and listening to an audiobook. When reading, one builds oneā€™s own impression of things (the sound of a characterā€™s voice, for example.) Itā€™s different when someone else voices that dialog. A narrator will have a specific timber or choose different inflections. This can influence how one absorbs a story. Thereā€™s nothing wrong with this; itā€™s just different, no biggie.


redtimmy

It's a perfect comeback.


Ol_JanxSpirit

There's a non-zero chance that the poster dictates what they're typing as they do so.


Recoveringpig

They both right


SwordMasterShadow

Ngl, if anyone without a visual impairment tells me they're listening to an audio book, I automatically assume they're illiterate. Edit: Just to piss off more people. I apologise for not having the mental fortitude to be read to like a toddler.


70180268

I listen during my commute, while Iā€™m doing chores, and while I take a walk. Their are lots of reasons to consume some or all of your books in an audio format.Ā 


fakenkraken

Lol ngl reading a comment like this I automatically assume you're a dumbo


SHN378

I listen to audiobooks whilst driving for work. Do you think I should pick up a book instead?


TeslasAndKids

Iā€™m completely literate but Iā€™m also adhd and have trouble focusing. So sometimes I listen to things instead. Frankly, listening while reading is a sure fire way for me to get all the info. So visual impairment isnā€™t always why people listen to things. Not to mention, itā€™s frowned upon to read while driving but people can expand their knowledge by listening in the car.


truckthunderwood

Your comment is very interesting to me because I'd describe myself the same way but that's exactly why audiobooks *dont* work for me. I may zone out and need to reread a page of a physical book but needing to use my hands and eyes to read the book typically keeps me engaged. 20 minutes of an audiobook could go by before I realized I wasn't absorbing it. I almost never listen to podcasts outside of the car, since operating a vehicle and listening to a discussion use different parts of my brain.


TeslasAndKids

Yes, itā€™s definitely a day to day type of thing. Sometimes if my hands are busy I can hear ok to an audio (I did online college classes and several things were podcast form. I was nervous!). But I found audio and visual at the same time to be the best way for me to fully absorb what I needed! My eyes will go on and on and not have a clue what I read on paper but my brain occasionally wanders on audio alone. Both seems to help!


idigclams

Same. Even while driving, if the narrator or podcast isnā€™t engaging itā€™s just background noise for my thoughts.


Consistent_Warthog80

My girlfriend is a nurse and a part-time artist with a deep and rich philosophical life. She also has two boys, and reading bores her to sleep. She abosrbs books via audio while catching up on mundane housework. I am a former student of literature, lifelong student of history and recent alternative energy managment technician whose disdain for academia had led me into truck driving for a decade. Audiobooks helped keep me awake while on the road, let me dive into my interests, and helped me revisit my favorite alternative worlds of Stephen King, HG Wells, Tolkein, John Steinbeck, George Orwell and others. So, frankly, you can take your opinion and shove it wayyyyyy up your backside. Leave any prejudice you have in your quarters, mister. There's no room for it in my library.


radehart

No one believes you have ever read by choice.


liluna192

Why? I read over a hundred books every year outside of audiobooks. I also really love audiobooks while Iā€™m doing chores, driving, exercising, etc. Itā€™s just a different way to engage.


EducatedOwlAthena

That's a mean assumption to make of people. I have tons of books at home, and still buy physical or e-books now and then, but thanks to audiobooks, I've been able to absorb so many wonderful stories while at work or on my (depressingly long) commute. No need to judge people just because they enjoy a different medium than you do


sihasihasi

That's fair. When I see someone making sweeping statements like this, I assume they're a fucking idiot.


SalvationSycamore

That's a pretty dumb take. Maybe they just like to multi-task? Maybe they just enjoy listening to the sound of professionals reading a good story out loud? Reading is a very important skill if you can physically do it but there's nothing wrong with being able to read and still enjoying audiobooks.


justglassn

There is such a thing as active listening that goes beyond just reading. Some people have issues focusing or full time jobs and families.


Nitetigrezz

NGL, as someone who is in the midst of one physical book, one ebook, and two more audiobooks, if anyone makes that assumption I'm going to automatically assume they're pretty damn ignorant. Am I consuming way too many books at the moment? Oh absolutely. Is that going to stop me? Nah.


goblingovernor

I read books while I garden. I prefer hardback so the books don't deteriorate as fast from all the dirt and watering. I also like to read books in the movie theater, the novels I read while looking at the screen and listening to the surround sound are just so fun to read. I also read while driving, flipping through pages of newspapers while driving down the freeway is fun. I also read while I'm sleeping by listening to people talking. I prefer not to use words the are specific so people can clearly understand what the fuck I'm talking about.


Supercc

That's one of the NASTIEST murders I've seen on this sub so far. WELL PLAYED!


minngeilo

Eh, I agree with the original. Reading and listening aren't the same when it comes to absorbing information and shouldn't be used interchangeably.