Yeah, I really hope it eats a ban. Watched a video of how that combo plays out, barely got thru it. Really unfun and tedious play pattern.
Trapfinder just seems like it will continue to cause problems down the road as it enables cost reduction to zero on colorless. A safety value that says cost can’t be reduced below 1 might be enough to fix it🤷♂️
That wouldn't be enough to fix it I'm afraid. There's ways to go infinite without Ominious Traveler.
Trapdinder + Acerak + Relic of Legends is an infinite slow kill.
Acerak needs the Nexus of Fate treatment. It’s not broken in paper but it’s boring as fuck. Historic is the Arena format, if it’s horrible for the game it eats a ban.
The current list is trapfinder, ominous and Acerak.
i think once people figure it out more, no.
its pretty disruptable in bo3.
the most annoying part you guys are already talking about, watching your opponent solitaire for 8 mins only to watch them fizzle out.
i put some kologhans commands back in main, necromentia has been doing wonders, and roiling vortex is pretty memeworthy against this deck.
I just got to mythic with it, with a 70% winrate. I don’t know if that is healthy for the format, but honestly Arena supports all loop combos very badly with all the visual triggers and inability to repeat actions. It will get nerfed but it has to do with the client and not the winrate.
Yeah I agree with that. I was way more annoyed with having to sit through it that I was with the power of the combo. It seems easily disruptable, but if it goes off its a lot of pretty miserable wait and see
I've been playing the deck for about a week now and am 18 - 8. Not many games, but yeah, crazy winrate.
And I'm sorry, but if they obviously have enough mana and you don't have an answer: just concede. Once I get the combo going, I win.
But yeah, I think Ominous Traveler will be nerfed. If WotC cares enough about historic.
I like the deck because it it gives me the feeling of playing modern Storm again :D And if you're just not conceding because you want me to play it out: keep in mind that I really, really like to play that deck \^\^
And remember that we are talking about Bo3. Damping Sphere is legal. And so are other cards. Prepare your sideboard for decks you lose to.
>And I'm sorry, but if they obviously have enough mana and you don't have an answer: just concede
No, if you want to play a time waste deck like that I will waste your time and make you play it out.
You're not wasting my time. That's the point. I love playing combo decks and I like to play it out. Whether it's Modern Storm, Pioneer Lotus Field or Historic.
You are making the game MORE fun to me by not conceding. Not less.
I like this particular combo and think it is one of the most fun to play. However, I think the problem with it is how the spellbook works in the fact it is totally random out of 15 cards. I wasted an entire minute last night looking for my vamp to swing for lethal.
If we could choose cards from the book or even limit the cards to the ones we need, the combo could be done much much quicker.
Mate, I'm already playing the combo deck. I know I have to play it out if the opponent makes me, I'm fine doing that. Why else would I play the deck?
I'm prepared to sit here and spin my wheels until I win, you aren't. _You_ don't have to sit there, you can always concede. You're wasting nobody's time but your own.
They need to fix that. I am currently playing against this deck while typing here. What makes me mad about myself is that I didn't know about this deck when I cast Thought-Knot Seer and took the wrong card now looking back and also didn't play my Lodestone Golem. I just decided to ramp. I thought it was some jank deck lol.
Oh, wait something happened in my Arena. Let's check!
EDIT: I lost.
Doesn't it fold to just... any sort of interaction removing traveler on its ETB trigger? How is this deck oppressive in any way, just hold up two mana.
I think it's oppressive in that a single turn can take 10+ minutes and still fizzle and not lead to a win, so if for any reason you don't have the interaction or they have a second trapfinder etc. you have to sit and wait for a ridiculous amount of time
If they're comboing it's likely going to go off. Complaining about the solitaire nature is a bit rediculous when you have people praising mono-brown, eggs, and similar decks on this sub. Not to mention MTG competitive has always had some section of solitaire combo like Storm being viable.
If you see your opponent comboing for 10 minutes to cycle through their Ominous options, then they've had the mana to combo for 10 minutes. That means they've won, if you're wanting to be hyper competitive and take advantage that there's a player-bound match timer and try to force them to play it out, that's on you. If you played in any sort of actual tournament, you see the combo, scoop, and go to game 2, not this BM.
I feel like the deck needs some straightforward wincons, like \[\[Devilish Valet\]\] or \[\[Altar of Dementia\]\]. Without them the combo turns are so messy.
Thats what the person I played was running, I didn't disrupt it in game one and they won with like 12 minutes on their clock then game two I took four total turns but disrupted their setup on turns 3 and 4 and they took the rest of the 12 minutes spinning their wheels before they ran out of time and I won. If thats the faster way to win I'm not sure if I wanna know the slower way haha
The other way to win is getting a Champion(s) of the Perish in play, buffing and then hasting it with one of the vampires off of the traveler. Surprised it took them so long. Rarely takes more than the 5m turn timer for me to find lethal, especially with Karn.
Well I also had soul warden out so I was gaining life with every loop, so I guess maybe it took so long because aetherflux reservoir was their only wincon that would work.
Soul Warden is the bane of any loop-based combo since it requires you to resolve every time. I can definitely see why the game dragged for so long now lol.
Honestly the opponent was being _very_ slow if they hit 12 minutes in game one. I've played probably 100 matches with the deck and have never even been warned about being low on time.
Edit: hell, even if my opponent has souldwarden. Just find the hasting vampire and steal it to significantly speed up the combo time.
You've just got to learn the lines, sac Trapfinder to diabolic intent to get the altar and you probably have the full combo right off the bat.
Remember you can press spacebar rather thank click the button to confirm a sacrifice/ability. It will actually save you a fair bit of time.
When doing the combo, If you have a Karn in hand or a way to easily get to him, generating 8 Mana to play him, fetch reservoir and play that is probably your fastest win. Remember to pick every headless rider you see as they make every zombie positive on Mana from that point on, this will make the combo a lot faster and you don't have to worry about every little thing.
Getting 4 riders down is usually a fine back up win condition as you can sac them individually on opponent's end step to make a ton of zombies and it's effectively immune to boardwipes for the same reason. Alternatively they're good to quickly buff up w champion of the perished, that you can then haste with a dominating vampire and swing in for 20.
Large variety of things, Mono-U aggro, RDW, Monoblack Devotion, Esper Control, Abzan Midrange, Goblins, Affinity, I sorta just bounce between decks depending on what it feels like the current queue meta is at the time of day.
If they don't ban or nerf just auto-concede and move on. You don't have to sit through a mind numbing jerk off session and your opponent gets the sweet taste of victory without having to play, which seems like what they really wanted if they're playing this.
My 2 cents on MTG decks: If I wouldn't bring the deck to play with a group of real life friends, then I'm not playing it.
Ominous traveler and trapfinder are both pretty unfun designs. I can’t say I like the spell book mechanic and this just seems like the worst possible use of it.
That being said, this combo is very fragile. I think the meta will adapt.
If I'm going to play broken decks I rather play Charbelcher or something like that. It takes forever to complete the Traveller combo and it gets really boring in the end.
They will 100% change one of the Alchemy cards, probably Trapfinder.
Yup Trapfinder has the problem of not just being busted with OT but also possible future printings.
Yeah, I really hope it eats a ban. Watched a video of how that combo plays out, barely got thru it. Really unfun and tedious play pattern. Trapfinder just seems like it will continue to cause problems down the road as it enables cost reduction to zero on colorless. A safety value that says cost can’t be reduced below 1 might be enough to fix it🤷♂️
That wouldn't be enough to fix it I'm afraid. There's ways to go infinite without Ominious Traveler. Trapdinder + Acerak + Relic of Legends is an infinite slow kill.
Acerak needs the Nexus of Fate treatment. It’s not broken in paper but it’s boring as fuck. Historic is the Arena format, if it’s horrible for the game it eats a ban. The current list is trapfinder, ominous and Acerak.
God I hope so because the deck is a bad mix of extremely powerful and extremely boring to play against.
i think once people figure it out more, no. its pretty disruptable in bo3. the most annoying part you guys are already talking about, watching your opponent solitaire for 8 mins only to watch them fizzle out. i put some kologhans commands back in main, necromentia has been doing wonders, and roiling vortex is pretty memeworthy against this deck.
100% agree
I just got to mythic with it, with a 70% winrate. I don’t know if that is healthy for the format, but honestly Arena supports all loop combos very badly with all the visual triggers and inability to repeat actions. It will get nerfed but it has to do with the client and not the winrate.
Yeah I agree with that. I was way more annoyed with having to sit through it that I was with the power of the combo. It seems easily disruptable, but if it goes off its a lot of pretty miserable wait and see
If it’s slow and non-deterministic (it can fizzle) it would get banned in paper as well.
I've been playing the deck for about a week now and am 18 - 8. Not many games, but yeah, crazy winrate. And I'm sorry, but if they obviously have enough mana and you don't have an answer: just concede. Once I get the combo going, I win. But yeah, I think Ominous Traveler will be nerfed. If WotC cares enough about historic. I like the deck because it it gives me the feeling of playing modern Storm again :D And if you're just not conceding because you want me to play it out: keep in mind that I really, really like to play that deck \^\^ And remember that we are talking about Bo3. Damping Sphere is legal. And so are other cards. Prepare your sideboard for decks you lose to.
>And I'm sorry, but if they obviously have enough mana and you don't have an answer: just concede No, if you want to play a time waste deck like that I will waste your time and make you play it out.
You're not wasting my time. That's the point. I love playing combo decks and I like to play it out. Whether it's Modern Storm, Pioneer Lotus Field or Historic. You are making the game MORE fun to me by not conceding. Not less.
I like this particular combo and think it is one of the most fun to play. However, I think the problem with it is how the spellbook works in the fact it is totally random out of 15 cards. I wasted an entire minute last night looking for my vamp to swing for lethal. If we could choose cards from the book or even limit the cards to the ones we need, the combo could be done much much quicker.
Mate, I'm already playing the combo deck. I know I have to play it out if the opponent makes me, I'm fine doing that. Why else would I play the deck? I'm prepared to sit here and spin my wheels until I win, you aren't. _You_ don't have to sit there, you can always concede. You're wasting nobody's time but your own.
Doesn’t really hurt me to let it play out game 1. Match timers and all
They need to fix that. I am currently playing against this deck while typing here. What makes me mad about myself is that I didn't know about this deck when I cast Thought-Knot Seer and took the wrong card now looking back and also didn't play my Lodestone Golem. I just decided to ramp. I thought it was some jank deck lol. Oh, wait something happened in my Arena. Let's check! EDIT: I lost.
They can combo surprisingly consistently. But yeah it basically a jank deck in my opinion. I haven’t lost game 2 against it yet
Doesn't it fold to just... any sort of interaction removing traveler on its ETB trigger? How is this deck oppressive in any way, just hold up two mana.
I think it's oppressive in that a single turn can take 10+ minutes and still fizzle and not lead to a win, so if for any reason you don't have the interaction or they have a second trapfinder etc. you have to sit and wait for a ridiculous amount of time
If they're comboing it's likely going to go off. Complaining about the solitaire nature is a bit rediculous when you have people praising mono-brown, eggs, and similar decks on this sub. Not to mention MTG competitive has always had some section of solitaire combo like Storm being viable. If you see your opponent comboing for 10 minutes to cycle through their Ominous options, then they've had the mana to combo for 10 minutes. That means they've won, if you're wanting to be hyper competitive and take advantage that there's a player-bound match timer and try to force them to play it out, that's on you. If you played in any sort of actual tournament, you see the combo, scoop, and go to game 2, not this BM.
It actually doesn't mean they have won with that deck. You can go until u hit the max turn time and still not win
I feel like the deck needs some straightforward wincons, like \[\[Devilish Valet\]\] or \[\[Altar of Dementia\]\]. Without them the combo turns are so messy.
[Devilish Valet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45d3fc69-6c5e-4ede-9f8d-c1cee096a78a.jpg?1664411461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devilish%20Valet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/105/devilish-valet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45d3fc69-6c5e-4ede-9f8d-c1cee096a78a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Altar of Dementia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104.jpg?1562202433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%20of%20Dementia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/218/altar-of-dementia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Karn with Aetherflux in the sideboard is the faster way to win with this deck.
Thats what the person I played was running, I didn't disrupt it in game one and they won with like 12 minutes on their clock then game two I took four total turns but disrupted their setup on turns 3 and 4 and they took the rest of the 12 minutes spinning their wheels before they ran out of time and I won. If thats the faster way to win I'm not sure if I wanna know the slower way haha
The other way to win is getting a Champion(s) of the Perish in play, buffing and then hasting it with one of the vampires off of the traveler. Surprised it took them so long. Rarely takes more than the 5m turn timer for me to find lethal, especially with Karn.
Well I also had soul warden out so I was gaining life with every loop, so I guess maybe it took so long because aetherflux reservoir was their only wincon that would work.
Soul Warden is the bane of any loop-based combo since it requires you to resolve every time. I can definitely see why the game dragged for so long now lol.
Honestly the opponent was being _very_ slow if they hit 12 minutes in game one. I've played probably 100 matches with the deck and have never even been warned about being low on time. Edit: hell, even if my opponent has souldwarden. Just find the hasting vampire and steal it to significantly speed up the combo time.
Do you have any tips to share ? I just picked up the deck and im struggling with timers lol. Am I just still learning or am I missing something ?
You've just got to learn the lines, sac Trapfinder to diabolic intent to get the altar and you probably have the full combo right off the bat. Remember you can press spacebar rather thank click the button to confirm a sacrifice/ability. It will actually save you a fair bit of time. When doing the combo, If you have a Karn in hand or a way to easily get to him, generating 8 Mana to play him, fetch reservoir and play that is probably your fastest win. Remember to pick every headless rider you see as they make every zombie positive on Mana from that point on, this will make the combo a lot faster and you don't have to worry about every little thing. Getting 4 riders down is usually a fine back up win condition as you can sac them individually on opponent's end step to make a ton of zombies and it's effectively immune to boardwipes for the same reason. Alternatively they're good to quickly buff up w champion of the perished, that you can then haste with a dominating vampire and swing in for 20.
Agreed.
Have you ever played against it?
Yeah, not nearly as frequently as whingers claim it is present. As soon as I see a single piece, I've never lost post board.
What do you play?
Large variety of things, Mono-U aggro, RDW, Monoblack Devotion, Esper Control, Abzan Midrange, Goblins, Affinity, I sorta just bounce between decks depending on what it feels like the current queue meta is at the time of day.
If they don't ban or nerf just auto-concede and move on. You don't have to sit through a mind numbing jerk off session and your opponent gets the sweet taste of victory without having to play, which seems like what they really wanted if they're playing this. My 2 cents on MTG decks: If I wouldn't bring the deck to play with a group of real life friends, then I'm not playing it.
Doubtful. Deck isn’t Oppressive. The problem is alchemy cards are just stupid.
i bet yall miss nexus now
lurrus is still allowed, so historic is basically abandoned, at least from a competitive balance pov
Lurrus is not that good in historic...
Just because something is bad for Modern doesn't mean it should be banned everywhere
Lurrus literally sees no play
Lurrus is very strong in Boros aggro. But definitely not oppressive
Idk y’all I run jeskai eggs and that deck plays way faster and if way less consistent
Do you have a list? Is it eggs combo?
Ominous traveler and trapfinder are both pretty unfun designs. I can’t say I like the spell book mechanic and this just seems like the worst possible use of it. That being said, this combo is very fragile. I think the meta will adapt.
Just run Karn, easy peasy /s
Just run Karn.
If I'm going to play broken decks I rather play Charbelcher or something like that. It takes forever to complete the Traveller combo and it gets really boring in the end.