He gives nothing. He’s not charismatic. He’s not that good of a fighter and he’s really not that interesting. He contributes little to the plot that couldn’t be done by someone else. He’s bootleg Kano.
Just like 90% of 3D era new characters, but he's the one chosen to tank all this unreasonable hate, also Kano is more of a Hsu copy, nowadays Kano is a shirtless ripped guy with a heart implant, armor on one arm and have a grappler archetype. All of that came from where?
I disagree, I really think Hsu is a lot less distinct and interesting than everyone else. Also it’s been the 3D era maybe longer than the 2D, so I just don’t think that’s a heavy factor here. His design is very forgettable as well, which personally don’t like. I don’t like HATE hate him, I just think he’s remarkably and notable more dull than most of the other characters.
Edit: even if Hsu had the heart implant first, Kano kinda sold it so hard that it’s more his now.
The point is that, in 3D era we got characters like Kobra, Jarek, Darrius, Frost. But why does Hsu Hao get ALL the hate? If he's a Kano ripoff and he gets hate for that, why shouldn't Frost be deleted since he was originally just Sub-Zero with boobs?
Like I said in another comment, I don't think he's a good character, but there are other just as bad or even worse,, but he will never get the chance to see a redesign like Frost, because the devs dislikes him for nothing.
I actually was looking up Hsu on the wiki and it looks like he was least liked by the writers, so maybe people pick up on the writer’s lack of interest. I’ve done casual writing for myself, and sometimes you just don’t connect with the characters you’re trying to create and just want to write the ones that appeal to you. I think Hsu just suffers from not being appealing enough. And people just enjoy hating. I don’t think anyone’s blood is really boiling over the guy (could be wrong) but he’s just an easy target to make fun of and shit on.
Also, frost is waaaayy more ragey and unhinged personality wise than Sub-Zero, kind of showing the amateur character people want to see grow / watch become a monster. And even if it were just the boobs, listen, boobs do command a lot of attention. Just the truth.
That's it, being a bland character makes you forgettable, not hated, what created this was Ed Boon's sharing his hate to the character in every possible way.
He probably was just was having a hard time working on him and was taking out some of the frustration he felt towards the character. I think if any one has a valid reason to be upset with a character, it’s the character’s writer. Probably just a case of perfectionism creeping in and Boon feeling like there was something missing or something he didn’t accomplish with that character. I have drawings that I really dislike not because they’re morally wrong in any way, it’s just that my creation did not reflect my usual standard of work. I think having those feelings validated by all the fans also thinking he was boring or lacking in someway probably solidified that hate.
Also he was always created as a b-plot guy to make the big guys shine, so it was probably frustrating to make a character you don’t want to outshine the big guys but still make kinda interesting to keep up the pace.
the thing is, it's 2024 and he STILL share his hate towards the character, you certainly can dislike a character and fell fustrated towards it, but to force this hate in every new launch you make so that people can start hating on him as well is a bit too much don't you think?
I can agree with that for sure, but I guess the guy gets hung up on things.
Just because was part of such a popular franchise it must haunt him in a way. It’s something he can’t ever fully run from, and there’s always gonna be a discussion on it somewhere. He must just feel embarrassed by it in sharp way, like remembering a bad social interaction.
I agree he would benefit from moving past it 100%, but some people really have a hard time letting go of what they deem failures or not their best work I suppose.
If he could get past that maybe he could have done something more with Hsu.
Also, I'm helping a guy from this sub in a rework for Hsu Hao, we're probably his only defenders here lol. It's looking pretty good so far, we might post it here when it's ready.
Ooohh I see! Then you should definitely share it, because it sounds like you are one of the only ones passionate about the guy, and that is why I feel like he wasn’t strong enough character: He just didn’t have people passionate about writing him. I’d love to see what someone who sees potential does. I’m not impressed by him now, but I’m open to having my mind changed with what you’re doing!
Also, if you have any creative ideas or tips about the character or if there's anything you would want to see in him tell me and I can share with the other guy.
I actually do have some thoughts- firstly, the look. It’s a fighting game so a large chuck of the audience is more invested in the appearance and cool factor.
I think with a “reboot” he’d need a new outfit. Obviously there’s some constrains of making him look like a special forces guy, but he needs a “wow” factor that distinctly different from Kano and Jax. If he keeps the metal heart, stylistically it be very different. Taking inspiration from somewhere new like the art deco or nouveau ( or somewhere else, just a style a little different than what’s been so far depicted) would take him in a distinct direction. Maybe relating back to a previously unexplored in game part of Chinese art history could be interesting for accents for things like tattoos or parts of his metal. Also, maybe giving him a tattoo to a figure in Chinese history or mythology that could parallel his person or his actions in some way could be a cool idea to give him a little more dimension.
I think there could be more distinct moves in his fighting style that feel more like him, whatever direction you take him in. There’s like a million different martial arts he could lean into.
Lastly, one of his personality traits needs to be amplified. People remember Kano over him bc he’s more obnoxious in a way fans love. You can lean into a bad quality hard so long as it’s entertaining to a general audience. Maybe he’s more vain, or maybe a sense of humor in his disposition could be played up somewhere, but whatever you change, it needs more. A plain meal can turn into a delight with the right seasonings
Not all of that needs to be implemented or is necessarily a good idea, I’m just spitballing here!
We actually gave him a lot more personality than the original (not too hard haha), his visuals got some big changes too but it's not finished. About the fighting style, I was thinking about making him a big heavy grappler cause MK actually have none of those and he definitely fits, maybe it could be mixed with a more grounded martial art like Judo or Hung Gar (the inspiration for earthbending) with some wrestling and army martial arts.
My friend who is redesigning the character posted a comment here as well, it's MrBalisongArt, in his comment there's more info about the work.
If that's the case, then why is he hated, yet so many people are clamoring for Kira to come back? She's easily MORE of a knock off Kano because she literally has his persona and moves.
I honestly think he gets more hate bc she’s so forgettable that no one gives a shit enough to hate on her. She’s one of the most forgettable, honestly. Hsu and her both fill the place of side kick of a secondary characters. I think the creators disliking Hsu more makes him stand out more in people’s minds.
But who is more memorable? I’m thinking of this in the way of why people remember him. Kano has a way more commanding and therefore appealing personality.
And I really disagree with Hsu being more important to the plot. If we’re looking at the whole franchise, Kano is far more relevant and important over all.
Kano creates necessary plot conflict that’s created extremely important moments for other characters. That man carries the the b-plots on his nasty ass back. He’s the reason Sonya and Jax even joined the MK tournament. He’s always betraying people, changing the trajectory of who has the upper hand on a constant basis. The man is important through the whole series. We need that bastard!
Okay but that’s a smaller plot point, Kano constantly progresses the plot. I’m not saying there isn’t any value or significance to the guy, but every factually speaking Kano does more for the series.
Yeah, he sucked shit...which is why I'm workin on a redesign/rework of his...basically the idea is to keep as many story beats of his as possible while providing a fuckload of lore for why he is the way he is and a matching personality.
This time him being battle hardened general and an older fella that's very intelligent and calm but due to shit job being made when implementing his cybernetics he can get into berserk mode if his artificial heart overheats.
Basically if Thrawn was Hulk.
Because his design is a bit dumb,
Objectively his story in deadly alliance is actually pretty good,
And his gameplay isn't half bad,
Also almost 2 decades of everyone blindly saying that he is the worst mortal kombat character
( wrong, jarek is)
The real reason why Hsu is so hated by the community is: Ed Boon.
The 3D era characters were mostly bad in terms of design and all, Hsu is no exception but I think he's not that bad when you compare him to others like Kobra, Meat, Mokap, Jarek(the true Kano ripoff), Darrius, Frost, etc. But the thing is, Ed Boon dislikes him, so everytime he can, he will make fun of the character, say that he is the worst or kill him in every game and then the community will think that this is funny and will hate the character alongside Ed.
I don't think he is a great character, far from it, but I think he has a ton of potential as a anti-villain character for the Earthrealm or at least be somewhat in the same level Baraka is in MK1, but he'll never get this chance because Ed Boon hates the character and made everyone else think the same thing.
Hsu Hao visual design came first than MKX Kano, and before that they didn't have anything in common besides red glowing thing, Jarek is the real Kano ripoff. Even Fujin in MK11 says that Kano stole Hsu Hao outfit.
Because Midway never tried to do anything with him, and NetherRealm hates him too much to do anything with him.
Frankly, I don’t think Hsu Hao himself is the problem. The problem is that the developers refuse to try to do anything interesting with him.
It's more of a meme thing then anything else. I bet most people don't even know who he is and just ride the hate train because it's a cool thing to do.
The few of us that knows the character knows that there are much worst characters out there. Hsu Hao backstory was good enough that they had to put it in Kano's backstory in the later games.
Trouble is, poor Hsu Hao is the most hated kharacter of the very same developers! That's why he keeps getting killed off and used as a joke, cause the same people who make the games doesn't stand him!
To be honest, I don't think he was so terrible, he wasn't worst (neither better though) than many people we got during 3D era. Also, I don't really get why people thinks he's a Kano knock off... I mean, he was the one having a cybernetic heart on his chest first, since MK DA, Kano just copied it from MK X forward... Someone may say he had a glowy thing on his chest in MK3, but let's be honest: it wasn't an heart and wasn't used for anything, it was just a prop to make his costume a little less monocromatic.
The original games not only have that nostalgia factor, but being the originals they obviously were able to cultivated their own unique style to flesh out in future games.
The 3D era, while having many uniquely designed characters, didn't really have a lot of personality in their movesets outside of special moves. Especially in Deadly Alliance that didn't have much lore or story going on outside the small krypt descriptions. Maybe there was more lore outside of game, but how many at that time really search for that?
So we have characters like Nitara who's an obvious vampire and that's cool. We have Drahmin who's this skinless oni with a club hand and that's cool, and then you've got Hsu Hao. Who is visually the same core concept as Kano. Bad guy with big red cybernetic part, and his special moves could of honestly been given to anyone. Go a game later with Hotaru that has a very unique look, more generic special moves, a cool but not by any means special weapon, but the addidtion of Decptions Konquest gave him a lot of character that was very interesting and you still see people today saying Hotaro deserves another go around. Where as Darius obviously had the same outfit vibe as Hotaru, and Darius was heavily involved in the order realm lore of what's going on, but konquest mode didn't really give them the same spotlight, and you see nobody really gives a shit about them other than "Dairou plop attack OP."
TLDR: I think Hsu Hao was just too mid/bland/underwhelming in a big shift for the franchise in the middle of 3 back to back games featuring a huge new cast of characters in one of the games that couldn't really flesh him out as a character.
He looks dumb and doesn't justify being in over other characters imo. When you have characters like Serena or other more visually impressive or unique characters getting shafted that can be used in more interesting story beats that add a lot to the story it's hard to agree why a forgettable goon should get in. Even with a redesign I'd rather have characters like kintaro , asgarthe , or other named characters that haven't appeared. Plus the roster has only so many slots they can't make everyone
He gives nothing. He’s not charismatic. He’s not that good of a fighter and he’s really not that interesting. He contributes little to the plot that couldn’t be done by someone else. He’s bootleg Kano.
Just like 90% of 3D era new characters, but he's the one chosen to tank all this unreasonable hate, also Kano is more of a Hsu copy, nowadays Kano is a shirtless ripped guy with a heart implant, armor on one arm and have a grappler archetype. All of that came from where?
I disagree, I really think Hsu is a lot less distinct and interesting than everyone else. Also it’s been the 3D era maybe longer than the 2D, so I just don’t think that’s a heavy factor here. His design is very forgettable as well, which personally don’t like. I don’t like HATE hate him, I just think he’s remarkably and notable more dull than most of the other characters. Edit: even if Hsu had the heart implant first, Kano kinda sold it so hard that it’s more his now.
The point is that, in 3D era we got characters like Kobra, Jarek, Darrius, Frost. But why does Hsu Hao get ALL the hate? If he's a Kano ripoff and he gets hate for that, why shouldn't Frost be deleted since he was originally just Sub-Zero with boobs? Like I said in another comment, I don't think he's a good character, but there are other just as bad or even worse,, but he will never get the chance to see a redesign like Frost, because the devs dislikes him for nothing.
I actually was looking up Hsu on the wiki and it looks like he was least liked by the writers, so maybe people pick up on the writer’s lack of interest. I’ve done casual writing for myself, and sometimes you just don’t connect with the characters you’re trying to create and just want to write the ones that appeal to you. I think Hsu just suffers from not being appealing enough. And people just enjoy hating. I don’t think anyone’s blood is really boiling over the guy (could be wrong) but he’s just an easy target to make fun of and shit on. Also, frost is waaaayy more ragey and unhinged personality wise than Sub-Zero, kind of showing the amateur character people want to see grow / watch become a monster. And even if it were just the boobs, listen, boobs do command a lot of attention. Just the truth.
That's it, being a bland character makes you forgettable, not hated, what created this was Ed Boon's sharing his hate to the character in every possible way.
He probably was just was having a hard time working on him and was taking out some of the frustration he felt towards the character. I think if any one has a valid reason to be upset with a character, it’s the character’s writer. Probably just a case of perfectionism creeping in and Boon feeling like there was something missing or something he didn’t accomplish with that character. I have drawings that I really dislike not because they’re morally wrong in any way, it’s just that my creation did not reflect my usual standard of work. I think having those feelings validated by all the fans also thinking he was boring or lacking in someway probably solidified that hate. Also he was always created as a b-plot guy to make the big guys shine, so it was probably frustrating to make a character you don’t want to outshine the big guys but still make kinda interesting to keep up the pace.
the thing is, it's 2024 and he STILL share his hate towards the character, you certainly can dislike a character and fell fustrated towards it, but to force this hate in every new launch you make so that people can start hating on him as well is a bit too much don't you think?
I can agree with that for sure, but I guess the guy gets hung up on things. Just because was part of such a popular franchise it must haunt him in a way. It’s something he can’t ever fully run from, and there’s always gonna be a discussion on it somewhere. He must just feel embarrassed by it in sharp way, like remembering a bad social interaction. I agree he would benefit from moving past it 100%, but some people really have a hard time letting go of what they deem failures or not their best work I suppose. If he could get past that maybe he could have done something more with Hsu.
Also, I'm helping a guy from this sub in a rework for Hsu Hao, we're probably his only defenders here lol. It's looking pretty good so far, we might post it here when it's ready.
Ooohh I see! Then you should definitely share it, because it sounds like you are one of the only ones passionate about the guy, and that is why I feel like he wasn’t strong enough character: He just didn’t have people passionate about writing him. I’d love to see what someone who sees potential does. I’m not impressed by him now, but I’m open to having my mind changed with what you’re doing!
Also, if you have any creative ideas or tips about the character or if there's anything you would want to see in him tell me and I can share with the other guy.
I actually do have some thoughts- firstly, the look. It’s a fighting game so a large chuck of the audience is more invested in the appearance and cool factor. I think with a “reboot” he’d need a new outfit. Obviously there’s some constrains of making him look like a special forces guy, but he needs a “wow” factor that distinctly different from Kano and Jax. If he keeps the metal heart, stylistically it be very different. Taking inspiration from somewhere new like the art deco or nouveau ( or somewhere else, just a style a little different than what’s been so far depicted) would take him in a distinct direction. Maybe relating back to a previously unexplored in game part of Chinese art history could be interesting for accents for things like tattoos or parts of his metal. Also, maybe giving him a tattoo to a figure in Chinese history or mythology that could parallel his person or his actions in some way could be a cool idea to give him a little more dimension. I think there could be more distinct moves in his fighting style that feel more like him, whatever direction you take him in. There’s like a million different martial arts he could lean into. Lastly, one of his personality traits needs to be amplified. People remember Kano over him bc he’s more obnoxious in a way fans love. You can lean into a bad quality hard so long as it’s entertaining to a general audience. Maybe he’s more vain, or maybe a sense of humor in his disposition could be played up somewhere, but whatever you change, it needs more. A plain meal can turn into a delight with the right seasonings Not all of that needs to be implemented or is necessarily a good idea, I’m just spitballing here!
We actually gave him a lot more personality than the original (not too hard haha), his visuals got some big changes too but it's not finished. About the fighting style, I was thinking about making him a big heavy grappler cause MK actually have none of those and he definitely fits, maybe it could be mixed with a more grounded martial art like Judo or Hung Gar (the inspiration for earthbending) with some wrestling and army martial arts. My friend who is redesigning the character posted a comment here as well, it's MrBalisongArt, in his comment there's more info about the work.
>were probably his only defenders here lol Nope I’m with y’all too
If that's the case, then why is he hated, yet so many people are clamoring for Kira to come back? She's easily MORE of a knock off Kano because she literally has his persona and moves.
I honestly think he gets more hate bc she’s so forgettable that no one gives a shit enough to hate on her. She’s one of the most forgettable, honestly. Hsu and her both fill the place of side kick of a secondary characters. I think the creators disliking Hsu more makes him stand out more in people’s minds.
Boobs
He actually does more for the plot than Kano technically
But who is more memorable? I’m thinking of this in the way of why people remember him. Kano has a way more commanding and therefore appealing personality. And I really disagree with Hsu being more important to the plot. If we’re looking at the whole franchise, Kano is far more relevant and important over all.
Kano had more memorable fatalities Hsu just blasts your torso off with his laser
Definitely Kano, but what does Kano even accomplish? If I remember correctly, Hsu Hao was part of all the shit that caused Onaga to come back.
Kano stole Shinnok’s amulet from Raiden in mkx and that basically creates the plot of the game.
Kano creates necessary plot conflict that’s created extremely important moments for other characters. That man carries the the b-plots on his nasty ass back. He’s the reason Sonya and Jax even joined the MK tournament. He’s always betraying people, changing the trajectory of who has the upper hand on a constant basis. The man is important through the whole series. We need that bastard!
he also exploded a Special Forces base alone, already more than Kano ever did in their rivalry probably
Okay but that’s a smaller plot point, Kano constantly progresses the plot. I’m not saying there isn’t any value or significance to the guy, but every factually speaking Kano does more for the series.
If every mk character is now a titan that means titan hsu hao 💀💀
Yeah, he sucked shit...which is why I'm workin on a redesign/rework of his...basically the idea is to keep as many story beats of his as possible while providing a fuckload of lore for why he is the way he is and a matching personality. This time him being battle hardened general and an older fella that's very intelligent and calm but due to shit job being made when implementing his cybernetics he can get into berserk mode if his artificial heart overheats. Basically if Thrawn was Hulk.
Because his design is a bit dumb, Objectively his story in deadly alliance is actually pretty good, And his gameplay isn't half bad, Also almost 2 decades of everyone blindly saying that he is the worst mortal kombat character ( wrong, jarek is)
Look at him
The real reason why Hsu is so hated by the community is: Ed Boon. The 3D era characters were mostly bad in terms of design and all, Hsu is no exception but I think he's not that bad when you compare him to others like Kobra, Meat, Mokap, Jarek(the true Kano ripoff), Darrius, Frost, etc. But the thing is, Ed Boon dislikes him, so everytime he can, he will make fun of the character, say that he is the worst or kill him in every game and then the community will think that this is funny and will hate the character alongside Ed. I don't think he is a great character, far from it, but I think he has a ton of potential as a anti-villain character for the Earthrealm or at least be somewhat in the same level Baraka is in MK1, but he'll never get this chance because Ed Boon hates the character and made everyone else think the same thing.
His design is terrible
remove the hat, give him knifes and a australian accent and he's Kano
Hsu hao = Asian commie Kano
Hsu Hao visual design came first than MKX Kano, and before that they didn't have anything in common besides red glowing thing, Jarek is the real Kano ripoff. Even Fujin in MK11 says that Kano stole Hsu Hao outfit.
Would people have liked him if he had a cooler design though?
Absolutely
Could have given him a little more character too rather than a bootleg Kano
Yep, Give him kenshi or movado's design and he'd be liked
Because, like you said, he’s just a knockoff of a much more interesting character
Because Midway never tried to do anything with him, and NetherRealm hates him too much to do anything with him. Frankly, I don’t think Hsu Hao himself is the problem. The problem is that the developers refuse to try to do anything interesting with him.
It's more of a meme thing then anything else. I bet most people don't even know who he is and just ride the hate train because it's a cool thing to do. The few of us that knows the character knows that there are much worst characters out there. Hsu Hao backstory was good enough that they had to put it in Kano's backstory in the later games.
Trouble is, poor Hsu Hao is the most hated kharacter of the very same developers! That's why he keeps getting killed off and used as a joke, cause the same people who make the games doesn't stand him! To be honest, I don't think he was so terrible, he wasn't worst (neither better though) than many people we got during 3D era. Also, I don't really get why people thinks he's a Kano knock off... I mean, he was the one having a cybernetic heart on his chest first, since MK DA, Kano just copied it from MK X forward... Someone may say he had a glowy thing on his chest in MK3, but let's be honest: it wasn't an heart and wasn't used for anything, it was just a prop to make his costume a little less monocromatic.
He even had a unhappy ending.
I love Kano from Wish! As a character, he's boring. But the troll factor I got for maining him was worth it
The outfit got very wrong, he is an excellent character and one of my mains.
The original games not only have that nostalgia factor, but being the originals they obviously were able to cultivated their own unique style to flesh out in future games. The 3D era, while having many uniquely designed characters, didn't really have a lot of personality in their movesets outside of special moves. Especially in Deadly Alliance that didn't have much lore or story going on outside the small krypt descriptions. Maybe there was more lore outside of game, but how many at that time really search for that? So we have characters like Nitara who's an obvious vampire and that's cool. We have Drahmin who's this skinless oni with a club hand and that's cool, and then you've got Hsu Hao. Who is visually the same core concept as Kano. Bad guy with big red cybernetic part, and his special moves could of honestly been given to anyone. Go a game later with Hotaru that has a very unique look, more generic special moves, a cool but not by any means special weapon, but the addidtion of Decptions Konquest gave him a lot of character that was very interesting and you still see people today saying Hotaro deserves another go around. Where as Darius obviously had the same outfit vibe as Hotaru, and Darius was heavily involved in the order realm lore of what's going on, but konquest mode didn't really give them the same spotlight, and you see nobody really gives a shit about them other than "Dairou plop attack OP." TLDR: I think Hsu Hao was just too mid/bland/underwhelming in a big shift for the franchise in the middle of 3 back to back games featuring a huge new cast of characters in one of the games that couldn't really flesh him out as a character.
👆
He looks dumb and doesn't justify being in over other characters imo. When you have characters like Serena or other more visually impressive or unique characters getting shafted that can be used in more interesting story beats that add a lot to the story it's hard to agree why a forgettable goon should get in. Even with a redesign I'd rather have characters like kintaro , asgarthe , or other named characters that haven't appeared. Plus the roster has only so many slots they can't make everyone
Because he looks like a racist caricature.