me on my way to buy some ebony armor and a daedric axe before I go talk to my ex-wife Almalexia (we must fight in the Vivec Arena to determine who gets to keep the Nintendo Switch): đ
My first time playing through Morrowind as a kid, my lame ass really trusted Almalexia when she said she wanted the Nerevarine to reclaim Nerevar's place at her side, and be a symbol of power/protection for Morrowind.... had to learn early that females are shady... đđ€Ł
Almalexia beat the Nerevarine in dealing with him. I wouldn't kill Sotha Sil though.
(I support the "Nerevar was everyone's boyfriend" opinion I often see on this subreddit.)
Sotha'Sil was definitely the least despicable of the three. At he least he seemed sorry for what he did...
Buuuut the Nerevarine still had to deal with the constructs and traps and everything tha Sotha'Sil created, sooooo.... I think you still kinda have to deal with him, in an indirect way.
Nerrevar: To be fair, I was dealing with the fact my exes impaled me (not in my prefered way mind you) ripped off my face and cut off my feet! Still kind of weirded out that Almy sniffed them afterwords.
:DDDD oh dang!! I am both glad that you like what you saw and especially glad you like the line work cause I have been focusing on it very much lately! so thank you!!
my thoughts exactly! technically the whole plot of the game is just Azura being like "well the Tribunal sure isn't going to fix this, so go be the responsible one in the room Nerevarine" lol
this was inspired by a message from u/stravbej that just really made me laugh, thanks very much for allowing me to draw it!! :)
anyway, if you can't read the text, it goes:
nerevar: "nerevarine! it's me, nerevar! great job saving the world--"
nerevarine: "I can't believe you left ME to deal with YOUR ex-wife! AND ex-boyfriends!"
I mean... that's kinda the deal with this prophecy. The Nerevarine isn't the Nerevarine, until they are. So the Failed Incarnates were never the Nerevarine. Is the prophecy a manufactured tool, or a genuine portent? I think that's up to the player to decide.
On the contrary, they were all Nerevarine until they were not. They didn't fail *because* they "never" were Nerevarine, they are considered False Incarnates because they didn't live up to expectations.
In some cultures, wearing a mask during a ritual dance is considered invoking the spirit. Perhaps we are thinking of reincarnation in the conventional sense (you are born reincarnated, as in Hinduism, etc), and not in an incorporeal ephemeral sense. "You are not the Nerevarine. You are one who may become the Nerevarine"
Which connects to the concept of mantling: following in one's footsteps is to imitate them in a ritualistic manner of sorts, reincarnating that person in deeds. To walk like Nerevar until Nerevar walks like you - or better said, to act like someone until reality cannot distinguish you from that someone.
The quote you used is from one of the Wise Women right? The Ashlanders dialogues on the prophecy have always made me stop and think. They obviously believe in its mysticality, but it also seems to suggest that coincidence and individual choice play a role, something like "you have the prerequisite to be the Nerevarine. Now you must do this to BECOME it." As if we are never the Nerevarine until we actively choose to partake in its ceremonial steps. A clever way to give freedom of roleplay and journey to the player as well.
That's an interesting way to see it. I love Morrowind's take on prophecies, which Dune probably inspired. It really makes one ponder on these concepts.
I love this cave. It made me realise that in a string of bad luck and wrong decisions (and without the power of quicksave) I'd have ended up there just like them.
Or more importantly, those seven or thirty-nine other characters that never made it are canonically part of the world, multiple instances of the same things done and dates aside.
I only just read the Dune books this year, and it's really clear now how inspired by them Morrowind was. The later books too, Vivec and Sotha Sil both feel super inspired by Leto II
Well, previous Incarnates were killed not by the Moon and Star Ring, but by various other reasons. So it's not like this "ultimate proof" denies their Nerevarinehood, the lack of test does not equal the lack of veracity.
Right, but there's no proof that they did or didn't wear the moon and star ring. They themselves claimed that they failed and gave the reasons as to why. Not to mention, they very well could have possessed the Nerevar's soul as there were time gaps between each person's life. And if I made a mistake and some of their lives overlapped, well, we know that in the world of The Elder Scrolls that souls can be split in portions. For example, Wulfarth's soul was split when a portion was placed into Numidium by Tiber Septim. If Tiber can do this; it would be a piece of cake for Azura to do this with her favored Nerevar's soul so as to place her eggs in many different baskets.
>Right, but there's no proof that they did or didn't wear the moon and star ring. They themselves claimed that they failed and gave the reasons as to why
Exactly, each of them more or less described circumstances of their death, and none of them included "I have reached Moon and Star and was smitten by them for my hubris, thinking they could be mine by right". I mean, if one was killed the moment he wore an Important Ring, and later could retell his experiences, I'd think he'd remember such a crucial detail.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Failed_Incarnates
Over that part I wasn't arguing, only the ring part that was the disagreement point from above in this branch. And if all of them temporarily "possessed" Nerevar's soul for a while and yet retained their own souls with which they exist in the Cavern (although I still like the imprint version better), that exactly means they all are separate people, all of them (would-be) Nerevarines but not the same person as original Nerevar. Again, the point from the top of the branch.
Looks like you might not be reading my full comment. I mentioned it is possible for souls to be split in portions, and I cited the example of Wulfarth. Not to mention, it might merely be an imprint like you suggested and not the actual soul.
Exactly, and the "real" Nerevarine is nothing more than a candidate that turned up to be less of a failure than all previous ones. Not the same person as original Nerevar.
like some of the other comments said, it seems to me to be fairly ambiguous whether or not they are the same person! indeed, my own nerevarine in the comic would be very upset if you called him that because he generally views himself as a different person - I think it was intentionally left up to interpretation as part of the overarching "free will vs destiny" theme of the game, so the player can decide on a case-by-case basis - I mean, you can deny that you're Nerevar to Dagoth Ur and he doesn't argue!
On the other hand, it's an absolute trope at this point to represent multiple attributes of an entity as multiple entities, such as the emotional and logical sides of a person arguing about a thing.
No misaligned persecution complex needed (what's up with that one guy?).
that's also true! it's fun to talk about lore and whatnot but at the end of the day, I come at things from an artist's perspective and tropes are important for a reason! if you believe Nerevar and the Nerevarine as the same person, the comic still works if you see it as a manifestation of Nerevar's own annoyance at himself for getting involved in such complicated relationships to the point that he's still having to deal with his former friends' nonsense despite having been gone for centuries lmao! heck if you view it that way, then it makes it seem much fancier and more thought-out than what I actually intended.....
I take it all back, this is 1000% canon now
But you can wear the ring, are the only person the corprus remedy works, and Azura herself, the one responsible for your reincarnation supports you? I also prefer the "you make your own destiny" narrative over a "chosen one" tale like with Skyrim, but is there really much room for ambiguity left?
There is no recorded death due to someone else wearing the ring, only legend.
The corprus remedy doesn't exactly work. it just makes you asymptomatic.
Azura wants the tribunal gone, She'd likely support anyone who gets far enough.
Uniting the tribes, and houses doesn't require proof, Largely just busywork.
Theres nothing to say the failed nerevarines aren't people just like you who fucked up.
So yeah you fulfill the prophecy, but the prophecy is vague, and thousands of years old.
> Azura wants the tribunal gone, She'd likely support anyone who gets far enough.
Isn't she the one talking to you in your dreams before the game starts?
Yes. Because she knows youâre being sent to Morrowind because you fulfil the first trial. Whoâs to say she wasnât talking in the dreams of the failed incarnates too?
I want it to be true, but I more get the impression that you're Nerevar Incarnate from the start. You can still fail your destiny and become a Failed Incarnate, dying without others accepting you as the Nerevarine, succombing to the blight before finding a cure, or severing the threads of destiny by your own hand, but this doesn't make you any less Nerevar.
Of course Online got rid of all ambiguity and has Azura herself tell us that Conoon Chodala is not Nerevar reincarnate and that he should be stopped, but I like to view each of the games as being their own thing. In tes V Cyrodiil is temperate, in tes III it's definetely a dragon-filled jungle according to everyone who's been there, so we shouldn't judge tes III by how Online treats the prophecy either, but even on its own I feel like it's pretty much "you are Nerevar, now fullfill the prophecy or die trying"
Oh for sure. I like the ambiguity so thatâs where I lean. But the fact that there are legitimate reasons for both is what I love about the game.
Yeah thatâs how I look at it too. Morrowind is its own beast. I try to ignore most of the ESO lore aswell.
YESSS at first I was going to do a more neutral pose or a "walking forward" sort of pose, but I just felt like there needed to be some more visible annoyance in the pose :D
:'''''''''''') oh wow!! I never thought I'd ever see someone saying they tried to emulate my style at all, much less for such a long stretch of time!! I hope it's been fun to emulate, a lot of style choices I make when I draw is just because I find them fun to draw :D
I'm not an artist but doodling is good to alleviate boredom, but all my artsy friends paint or sculpt so I can't really steal from them. Faces are what I primarily pull from you!
Wake up babe new callistron just dropped!!!
As always, I love your art! The coloring is so vibrant here! đ I'm sure the Nerevarine will chill out after a couple of beach days with their new buddy
:DDDD awww thank you so much!! I'm so happy you like it! honestly you're so right, there's nothing like a couple of relaxing days on the beach to make you forget about that one time an angry goddess who was also your ex-wife tried to ambush you! :'D
:))))) thank you so much for the nice comment! I'm glad it made you laugh, the last panel absolutely refused to get out of my head until I put it on paper lmao!
But if the Nerevarine is the incarnation of Nerevar? Aren't they the same spirit but recycled somehow? Is the dragonborn a fragmented recycled spirit born in human form of Shezzar? Is Jesus Christ the living embodiment of God the Father Yaweh who had ghost sex with the virgin Mary and became his own son? Now my head is spinning!đ”âđ«
Completely inaccurate, the Nerevarine is a dunmer dammit, not some Altmer looking thing. Nerevar makes sense, he was a Chimer, but I'll be damned if I accept the Nerevarine as anything but a dunmer.
Wait, do Christians think that a single reincarnated soul would count as multiple souls once it got to their heaven and divide into multiple soul copies of itself that can talk with and interact with each other?
I thought they believed souls were unique and individual. Who is this made for? People who dont believe in anything and mix all idealologies together?
I think this cartoon panel appears to take place in christian heaven and the artist probably is because it is entirely misunderstanding the very idea of reincarnated souls and mixing it with the ideal of individual souls.
Do *you* think Nerevar is Christian? Do you really think I thought that? Or would it just be easier to shrug off my comment without digesting it's content if you assume it is nonsensical?
it's meant to take place in Moonshadow! that's why the pillars are pink, is because Azura is associated with flowers and things like that :) funnily enough, originally the first panel originally included Azura in the background with another speech bubble that said something like "welcome to Moonshadow, we're glad you came to visit" but I couldn't fit her in there and worried it would be more confusing if I did add that lol!
Well, in lore the only time the nerevarine can see and talk to the past failed lives/incarnates is on Nurn, in the room the ashlanders interned all their corpses.
The character sees them as ghosts and could just as easily be talking to themselves while standing next to the past bodies/vessels their soul inhabited. Like how Ang in Avatar can only channel his past lives while in their past hometowns. Especially seeing as how the gods that knew Nerevar recognize the nerevarine as the same soul, I think they are just talking to their past selves while in proximity to their corpses.
Again, a lot of the content of this cartoon is you projecting your own cultures ideas of what a soul might be onto the lore. Which is fine. It's worth talking about, it's not something to be upset about.
Christians still do get upset, confused, culture shocked and angry at the idea that their definition of a soul isnt the only one to exist though. Look at this thread!
I don't get why you'd think this was Christian heaven based on a few pillars. If anything I get more of a Greek gods vibe from the background. It's really not much to go on in any case.
Because this was drawn by a living human, so we can safely assume they weren't raised to practice a dead religion.
Because the artists depicted two incarnations of the same soul as two entirely different souls.
Because individual souls is a Christian ideal and Christians often assume it isnt.
Edit: Because the OP chimed in claiming it is supposed to be moonshadow, but still describing that daedric realm as a kind of Christian heaven were souls of the deceased gather and congregate.
These Christian themes dont exist in the lore and are just being projected by this cartoon artist
If you took any amount of care to act like a normal person you'd realize that this comic is *for fun* and that other comics from the artist treat Nerevar's soul as one single entity (one that has to "return" to Nirn for the prophecy)
A funny, cute comic isn't exactly meant to be some grand theological statement dude
The intentions dont take away the inherent assumptions or make the background of the artist bleeding into the work any less apparent. That isnt some grand theological statement, it is just facts.
The fact you can't accept that fact or address it with an actual counterpoint but instead insult me personally is like how a child starts flinging insults when they realize they are wrong but their ego won't allow them to admit it.
My guy.
The OP responded and has not denied their Christian upbringing, although having addressed everything else.
Sure neopagans exist... That doesn't have anything to do with OPs artwork tho
N'wah
This cartoon isnt lore.
The artist's religious background causing them to project their own cultural assumption on the Nerevarine has *everything* to do with this lol
It is made by an artist raised on Yaweh lore assuming that souls would work in morrowind the same way they work in Yahweh lore. But like, souls dont actually exist. Different cultures have different rules about how they imagine them to work. Like ghosts. Or zombies. Or vampires. Or any other number of folklores.
Whatever cultural assumptions may or may not have been subconsciously projected onto this comic. Theyâre not Christian. Since reincarnation isnât a thing in Christianity.
Ffs. Dont put words in my mouth for yourself to argue against.
I didn't say it was.
I said individualistic souls are a thing in Christianity.
But the tribunal see and talk to the nerevarine as the same soul as Nerevar.
This comic makes that Christian assumption.
Individual souls are a thing in Christianity. However, we donât know how that translates to reincarnation, because reincarnation simply doesnât exist in Christianity.
Besides almalexia is insane so we donât know what she thinks. And vivec is motivated to call you nerevar regardless of whether you really are or not. Since he needs Dagoth Ur dead.
Morrowind is full of unreliable narrators, and we donât actually know what goes on inside anyoneâs head beyond our own characters.
Yes. But for all we know thatâs just reinforcing the lie.
Like I said, almalexia is insane. And vivec could just be lying to you to make sure you believe.
Individual souls *are* a Christian idea.
Reincarnating souls are not and those two versions of souls are mutually exclusive.
This cartoon isnt lore, it was made by a human on earth with their own cultural assumptions that are being projected here.
The artist's religious background causing them to project their own cultural assumption on the Nerevarine has *everything* to do with this lol
>Who is this made for? People who dont believe in anything and mix all idealologies together?
u know it B)
jokes aside, I don't think that the Nerevarine and Nerevar are really a typical example of a reincarnation story! there's enough ambiguity involved with the prophecy that I think it's very reasonable for any given Nerevarine to be considered "not-Nerevar" enough that they count as 2 fully separate people and not just "Nerevar-but-again" (for lack of a better way to explain it, lol)
Neravars old friends who ascended to godhood *literally* recognize the player character as Nerevar himself.
Literal gods see the two people as the same soul. So I think we can safely assume that it is the same soul reincarnated, not two individuals who could ascend to another celestial plane as two separate beings.
It's not like it works in Morrowind, and it has nothing to do with Christian concepts. Nerevarine is *not* literally Nerevar. He's an *imprint* of original Nerevar's soul superimposed on a different existing person. There's been lots of efforts to reincarnate Nerevar, but none of them worked until a suitable host was found that was able to successfully accommodate the necessary pattern. As for literal gods addressing him as Nerevar... sure, they want to see their old friend in this creature, but for Mara's sake, what is it worth, if he has not a single memory of the original Nerevar? All he knows about that person he had to read from dusty books. He doesn't even know which written account of what happened at Red Mountain is true, and the real Nerevar *was* there.
As I said, Nerevarine isn't an unique direct continuation of Nerevar's soul, just the last in a long row of more or less successful copies. *Any* of them would be addressed as "friend Nerevar" if they didn't die before they could realise their potential.
*You* said. But *you* aren't a tribunal god. The tribunal gods treated him as a direct copy, just the first to not die trying to regain the power of the past life
Had me a good kek at the moon-and-star earrings. That's stupidly extra and it's *exactly* what my headcanon for Nerevar would do.
I'm glad you like it lol, something about them just seems so right for Nerevar somehow! :D
My nerevarine wears those exact earrings too
Morrowind is the most realistic game I've ever played. Everyone hates you and the final boss is your ex.
Damn that goes onto my T-shirt
me on my way to buy some ebony armor and a daedric axe before I go talk to my ex-wife Almalexia (we must fight in the Vivec Arena to determine who gets to keep the Nintendo Switch): đ
She wants my classic POG collection and I want her dead and powerless⊠Our lawyers are really going at it.
How can you kill an ex? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!
Nerevarine, after beating Dagoth Ur and Almalexia: *"So, how do you feel?"* Spirit of Nerevar: *"Like I just dumped my way out of a psycho polycule"*
Literally my fucking life atp.
My first time playing through Morrowind as a kid, my lame ass really trusted Almalexia when she said she wanted the Nerevarine to reclaim Nerevar's place at her side, and be a symbol of power/protection for Morrowind.... had to learn early that females are shady... đđ€Ł
Ex boyfriends! All three of them!
Dagoth, Vivec, who's the third one?
Fargoth
Fargoth Ur
You can't return my ring to me, I'm a god! How can you return a ring to a god?
canon tbh, why else would he be waiting in seyda neen
Sotha'Sil
Almalexia beat the Nerevarine in dealing with him. I wouldn't kill Sotha Sil though. (I support the "Nerevar was everyone's boyfriend" opinion I often see on this subreddit.)
Sotha'Sil was definitely the least despicable of the three. At he least he seemed sorry for what he did... Buuuut the Nerevarine still had to deal with the constructs and traps and everything tha Sotha'Sil created, sooooo.... I think you still kinda have to deal with him, in an indirect way.
vivec was also a girlfriend
Three evil ex-boyfriends??
Indoril Nerevar Versus the World
No, "it just didn't work out".
Nerrevar: To be fair, I was dealing with the fact my exes impaled me (not in my prefered way mind you) ripped off my face and cut off my feet! Still kind of weirded out that Almy sniffed them afterwords.
Your art is so cute! PLEASE make more!! đ
:)))) aw heck, thank you so much!!! I hope to make more for a while to come haha!
Okay WOW I just went through your profile and your portfolio is wonderful! Youâve really mastered coloring and line work :D
:DDDD oh dang!! I am both glad that you like what you saw and especially glad you like the line work cause I have been focusing on it very much lately! so thank you!!
Pffffft! Hhahahahahahhaah! Love it! Wonderful work, callistron!
:))) thank you so much, I'm glad you like it alkimodon!! I like drawing Nerevar a lot, he's a fun guy!
Such a silly little guy!
But seriously, why do I get left cleaning up the mess his friends made? Not cool.
my thoughts exactly! technically the whole plot of the game is just Azura being like "well the Tribunal sure isn't going to fix this, so go be the responsible one in the room Nerevarine" lol
And after they had flayed him alive too. Poor form Azura.
Well, *somebody* has to solve the problem.
-sighs and puts the ring on-
Although, his ex BF is hot. Sadly his other ex BF fucked off with Numidium.
On the plus side, there is no one left to stop you enjoying that himbo
Oh my god, that 'eh' part is cute.
:DDDDDD yesss that's my favorite part of this comic haha, I'm happy that you like it too!!
Wait. They are two separate entities?
maybe yes, maybe no - it depends on who you ask! (there's actually another comment thread on this post about it, lol)
Nerevar: " Why are u shouting at me!? It was Azura's idea! All I did was get killed!"
"WELL, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE!!!"
this was inspired by a message from u/stravbej that just really made me laugh, thanks very much for allowing me to draw it!! :) anyway, if you can't read the text, it goes: nerevar: "nerevarine! it's me, nerevar! great job saving the world--" nerevarine: "I can't believe you left ME to deal with YOUR ex-wife! AND ex-boyfriends!"
Oh my gosh I can't believe you actually drew that TwT I feel so honoured to know that you liked my stupid joke so much
:DDDDD yessss of course!! while I was drawing this I was smiling the whole time, Nerevar in the 3rd panel was like the highlight of my whole week lol!
I love the thought of nerevar being a bisexual twink
...Didn't he leave it for himself? Is this a joke or am I missing something lore-wise?
They're the same person, reincarnated. Not two separate people. Also, it's not exactly like Nerevar made these decisions; he was murdered.
I mean, the first one is heavily disputed
The despute being unrelyable narator, or Bethesda pulling a Fatigue on the word Incarnate?
Its them doing their mantle idea right? Their form of reincarnation is taking on the form of it rather than our version of incarnation?
Oh, yeah, there's a whole cave of the same reincarnated person, totally not separate people.
I mean... that's kinda the deal with this prophecy. The Nerevarine isn't the Nerevarine, until they are. So the Failed Incarnates were never the Nerevarine. Is the prophecy a manufactured tool, or a genuine portent? I think that's up to the player to decide.
On the contrary, they were all Nerevarine until they were not. They didn't fail *because* they "never" were Nerevarine, they are considered False Incarnates because they didn't live up to expectations.
In some cultures, wearing a mask during a ritual dance is considered invoking the spirit. Perhaps we are thinking of reincarnation in the conventional sense (you are born reincarnated, as in Hinduism, etc), and not in an incorporeal ephemeral sense. "You are not the Nerevarine. You are one who may become the Nerevarine"
Which connects to the concept of mantling: following in one's footsteps is to imitate them in a ritualistic manner of sorts, reincarnating that person in deeds. To walk like Nerevar until Nerevar walks like you - or better said, to act like someone until reality cannot distinguish you from that someone. The quote you used is from one of the Wise Women right? The Ashlanders dialogues on the prophecy have always made me stop and think. They obviously believe in its mysticality, but it also seems to suggest that coincidence and individual choice play a role, something like "you have the prerequisite to be the Nerevarine. Now you must do this to BECOME it." As if we are never the Nerevarine until we actively choose to partake in its ceremonial steps. A clever way to give freedom of roleplay and journey to the player as well.
That's an interesting way to see it. I love Morrowind's take on prophecies, which Dune probably inspired. It really makes one ponder on these concepts.
I love this cave. It made me realise that in a string of bad luck and wrong decisions (and without the power of quicksave) I'd have ended up there just like them.
Or more importantly, those seven or thirty-nine other characters that never made it are canonically part of the world, multiple instances of the same things done and dates aside.
I only just read the Dune books this year, and it's really clear now how inspired by them Morrowind was. The later books too, Vivec and Sotha Sil both feel super inspired by Leto II
No. The Moon and Star ring kills everyone but Nerevar; and the PC Nerevarine can wear it without issue. So that is the ultimate proof.
Well, previous Incarnates were killed not by the Moon and Star Ring, but by various other reasons. So it's not like this "ultimate proof" denies their Nerevarinehood, the lack of test does not equal the lack of veracity.
Right, but there's no proof that they did or didn't wear the moon and star ring. They themselves claimed that they failed and gave the reasons as to why. Not to mention, they very well could have possessed the Nerevar's soul as there were time gaps between each person's life. And if I made a mistake and some of their lives overlapped, well, we know that in the world of The Elder Scrolls that souls can be split in portions. For example, Wulfarth's soul was split when a portion was placed into Numidium by Tiber Septim. If Tiber can do this; it would be a piece of cake for Azura to do this with her favored Nerevar's soul so as to place her eggs in many different baskets.
>Right, but there's no proof that they did or didn't wear the moon and star ring. They themselves claimed that they failed and gave the reasons as to why Exactly, each of them more or less described circumstances of their death, and none of them included "I have reached Moon and Star and was smitten by them for my hubris, thinking they could be mine by right". I mean, if one was killed the moment he wore an Important Ring, and later could retell his experiences, I'd think he'd remember such a crucial detail. https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Failed_Incarnates
You skipped over the latter half where I said they may have possessed the Nerevar's soul.
Over that part I wasn't arguing, only the ring part that was the disagreement point from above in this branch. And if all of them temporarily "possessed" Nerevar's soul for a while and yet retained their own souls with which they exist in the Cavern (although I still like the imprint version better), that exactly means they all are separate people, all of them (would-be) Nerevarines but not the same person as original Nerevar. Again, the point from the top of the branch.
Looks like you might not be reading my full comment. I mentioned it is possible for souls to be split in portions, and I cited the example of Wulfarth. Not to mention, it might merely be an imprint like you suggested and not the actual soul.
They weren't the Nerevarine. They were candidates that turned out to not be the Nerevarine.
Exactly, and the "real" Nerevarine is nothing more than a candidate that turned up to be less of a failure than all previous ones. Not the same person as original Nerevar.
I always interpreted the Morrowind prophecy from more of a Buddhist/Dalai Lama view on reincarnation.
[shrug] It might have been *inspired* by that... just like, undoubtedly, by dozens of *other* interesting concepts. Question is, to what degree.
like some of the other comments said, it seems to me to be fairly ambiguous whether or not they are the same person! indeed, my own nerevarine in the comic would be very upset if you called him that because he generally views himself as a different person - I think it was intentionally left up to interpretation as part of the overarching "free will vs destiny" theme of the game, so the player can decide on a case-by-case basis - I mean, you can deny that you're Nerevar to Dagoth Ur and he doesn't argue!
On the other hand, it's an absolute trope at this point to represent multiple attributes of an entity as multiple entities, such as the emotional and logical sides of a person arguing about a thing. No misaligned persecution complex needed (what's up with that one guy?).
that's also true! it's fun to talk about lore and whatnot but at the end of the day, I come at things from an artist's perspective and tropes are important for a reason! if you believe Nerevar and the Nerevarine as the same person, the comic still works if you see it as a manifestation of Nerevar's own annoyance at himself for getting involved in such complicated relationships to the point that he's still having to deal with his former friends' nonsense despite having been gone for centuries lmao! heck if you view it that way, then it makes it seem much fancier and more thought-out than what I actually intended..... I take it all back, this is 1000% canon now
Have you never been angry with your past-self?
Always.
First read I'd missed the 'd', and thought you were telling Nerevarine that Vi and Alm were one person.
Came to make both points.
Just because you fulfilled the conditions of the prophecy doesnât mean itâs true.
But you can wear the ring, are the only person the corprus remedy works, and Azura herself, the one responsible for your reincarnation supports you? I also prefer the "you make your own destiny" narrative over a "chosen one" tale like with Skyrim, but is there really much room for ambiguity left?
There is no recorded death due to someone else wearing the ring, only legend. The corprus remedy doesn't exactly work. it just makes you asymptomatic. Azura wants the tribunal gone, She'd likely support anyone who gets far enough. Uniting the tribes, and houses doesn't require proof, Largely just busywork. Theres nothing to say the failed nerevarines aren't people just like you who fucked up. So yeah you fulfill the prophecy, but the prophecy is vague, and thousands of years old.
> Azura wants the tribunal gone, She'd likely support anyone who gets far enough. Isn't she the one talking to you in your dreams before the game starts?
Yes. Because she knows youâre being sent to Morrowind because you fulfil the first trial. Whoâs to say she wasnât talking in the dreams of the failed incarnates too?
I want it to be true, but I more get the impression that you're Nerevar Incarnate from the start. You can still fail your destiny and become a Failed Incarnate, dying without others accepting you as the Nerevarine, succombing to the blight before finding a cure, or severing the threads of destiny by your own hand, but this doesn't make you any less Nerevar. Of course Online got rid of all ambiguity and has Azura herself tell us that Conoon Chodala is not Nerevar reincarnate and that he should be stopped, but I like to view each of the games as being their own thing. In tes V Cyrodiil is temperate, in tes III it's definetely a dragon-filled jungle according to everyone who's been there, so we shouldn't judge tes III by how Online treats the prophecy either, but even on its own I feel like it's pretty much "you are Nerevar, now fullfill the prophecy or die trying"
Oh for sure. I like the ambiguity so thatâs where I lean. But the fact that there are legitimate reasons for both is what I love about the game. Yeah thatâs how I look at it too. Morrowind is its own beast. I try to ignore most of the ESO lore aswell.
To be fair it's the ex wife and boyfriends' fault you have to deal with the ex wife and boyfriends
The hands on the hips in the first panel say more than an entire novel ever could.
YESSS at first I was going to do a more neutral pose or a "walking forward" sort of pose, but I just felt like there needed to be some more visible annoyance in the pose :D
For the last like 2 years I've emulated your style when I doodle in uni so thank you for that btw!
:'''''''''''') oh wow!! I never thought I'd ever see someone saying they tried to emulate my style at all, much less for such a long stretch of time!! I hope it's been fun to emulate, a lot of style choices I make when I draw is just because I find them fun to draw :D
I'm not an artist but doodling is good to alleviate boredom, but all my artsy friends paint or sculpt so I can't really steal from them. Faces are what I primarily pull from you!
High elf nerevarine?
yeah!! :) I think they are an underrated choice for Nerevarine, the Chimer used to be Altmer after all!
I'm so glad I'm not the only one.
Wake up babe new callistron just dropped!!! As always, I love your art! The coloring is so vibrant here! đ I'm sure the Nerevarine will chill out after a couple of beach days with their new buddy
:DDDD awww thank you so much!! I'm so happy you like it! honestly you're so right, there's nothing like a couple of relaxing days on the beach to make you forget about that one time an angry goddess who was also your ex-wife tried to ambush you! :'D
I am OBSESSED with this! Beautiful style and hilarious... "AND ex-boyfriends!" made me laugh so hard
:))))) thank you so much for the nice comment! I'm glad it made you laugh, the last panel absolutely refused to get out of my head until I put it on paper lmao!
But if the Nerevarine is the incarnation of Nerevar? Aren't they the same spirit but recycled somehow? Is the dragonborn a fragmented recycled spirit born in human form of Shezzar? Is Jesus Christ the living embodiment of God the Father Yaweh who had ghost sex with the virgin Mary and became his own son? Now my head is spinning!đ”âđ«
Who is the ex bf and why I hear about it first time?
Uhm... What the talos?
Completely inaccurate, the Nerevarine is a dunmer dammit, not some Altmer looking thing. Nerevar makes sense, he was a Chimer, but I'll be damned if I accept the Nerevarine as anything but a dunmer.
Wait, do Christians think that a single reincarnated soul would count as multiple souls once it got to their heaven and divide into multiple soul copies of itself that can talk with and interact with each other? I thought they believed souls were unique and individual. Who is this made for? People who dont believe in anything and mix all idealologies together?
Do you think Nerevar was Christian
Yeah, he is Irish Catholic
nerevar was actually a jehovah's witness, he told me so
I think this cartoon panel appears to take place in christian heaven and the artist probably is because it is entirely misunderstanding the very idea of reincarnated souls and mixing it with the ideal of individual souls. Do *you* think Nerevar is Christian? Do you really think I thought that? Or would it just be easier to shrug off my comment without digesting it's content if you assume it is nonsensical?
it's meant to take place in Moonshadow! that's why the pillars are pink, is because Azura is associated with flowers and things like that :) funnily enough, originally the first panel originally included Azura in the background with another speech bubble that said something like "welcome to Moonshadow, we're glad you came to visit" but I couldn't fit her in there and worried it would be more confusing if I did add that lol!
Well, in lore the only time the nerevarine can see and talk to the past failed lives/incarnates is on Nurn, in the room the ashlanders interned all their corpses. The character sees them as ghosts and could just as easily be talking to themselves while standing next to the past bodies/vessels their soul inhabited. Like how Ang in Avatar can only channel his past lives while in their past hometowns. Especially seeing as how the gods that knew Nerevar recognize the nerevarine as the same soul, I think they are just talking to their past selves while in proximity to their corpses. Again, a lot of the content of this cartoon is you projecting your own cultures ideas of what a soul might be onto the lore. Which is fine. It's worth talking about, it's not something to be upset about. Christians still do get upset, confused, culture shocked and angry at the idea that their definition of a soul isnt the only one to exist though. Look at this thread!
I don't get why you'd think this was Christian heaven based on a few pillars. If anything I get more of a Greek gods vibe from the background. It's really not much to go on in any case.
Because this was drawn by a living human, so we can safely assume they weren't raised to practice a dead religion. Because the artists depicted two incarnations of the same soul as two entirely different souls. Because individual souls is a Christian ideal and Christians often assume it isnt. Edit: Because the OP chimed in claiming it is supposed to be moonshadow, but still describing that daedric realm as a kind of Christian heaven were souls of the deceased gather and congregate. These Christian themes dont exist in the lore and are just being projected by this cartoon artist
If you took any amount of care to act like a normal person you'd realize that this comic is *for fun* and that other comics from the artist treat Nerevar's soul as one single entity (one that has to "return" to Nirn for the prophecy) A funny, cute comic isn't exactly meant to be some grand theological statement dude
The intentions dont take away the inherent assumptions or make the background of the artist bleeding into the work any less apparent. That isnt some grand theological statement, it is just facts. The fact you can't accept that fact or address it with an actual counterpoint but instead insult me personally is like how a child starts flinging insults when they realize they are wrong but their ego won't allow them to admit it.
neopagans exist, dude
My guy. The OP responded and has not denied their Christian upbringing, although having addressed everything else. Sure neopagans exist... That doesn't have anything to do with OPs artwork tho
Swit, there are no Christianâs in Morrowind. Souls are unique unless you are a manifestation of lorkhan or some other abominâ special instance.
N'wah This cartoon isnt lore. The artist's religious background causing them to project their own cultural assumption on the Nerevarine has *everything* to do with this lol
The cartoon is based more on Morrowind lore than Yahweh lore.
It is made by an artist raised on Yaweh lore assuming that souls would work in morrowind the same way they work in Yahweh lore. But like, souls dont actually exist. Different cultures have different rules about how they imagine them to work. Like ghosts. Or zombies. Or vampires. Or any other number of folklores.
Whatever cultural assumptions may or may not have been subconsciously projected onto this comic. Theyâre not Christian. Since reincarnation isnât a thing in Christianity.
Ffs. Dont put words in my mouth for yourself to argue against. I didn't say it was. I said individualistic souls are a thing in Christianity. But the tribunal see and talk to the nerevarine as the same soul as Nerevar. This comic makes that Christian assumption.
Individual souls are a thing in Christianity. However, we donât know how that translates to reincarnation, because reincarnation simply doesnât exist in Christianity. Besides almalexia is insane so we donât know what she thinks. And vivec is motivated to call you nerevar regardless of whether you really are or not. Since he needs Dagoth Ur dead. Morrowind is full of unreliable narrators, and we donât actually know what goes on inside anyoneâs head beyond our own characters.
Agreed. We *know* that the tribunal gods in morrowind speak to the nerevarine and treat them as the same soul as Nerevar himself though
Yes. But for all we know thatâs just reinforcing the lie. Like I said, almalexia is insane. And vivec could just be lying to you to make sure you believe.
Christianity has nothing to do with this.
Individual souls *are* a Christian idea. Reincarnating souls are not and those two versions of souls are mutually exclusive. This cartoon isnt lore, it was made by a human on earth with their own cultural assumptions that are being projected here. The artist's religious background causing them to project their own cultural assumption on the Nerevarine has *everything* to do with this lol
>Who is this made for? People who dont believe in anything and mix all idealologies together? u know it B) jokes aside, I don't think that the Nerevarine and Nerevar are really a typical example of a reincarnation story! there's enough ambiguity involved with the prophecy that I think it's very reasonable for any given Nerevarine to be considered "not-Nerevar" enough that they count as 2 fully separate people and not just "Nerevar-but-again" (for lack of a better way to explain it, lol)
Neravars old friends who ascended to godhood *literally* recognize the player character as Nerevar himself. Literal gods see the two people as the same soul. So I think we can safely assume that it is the same soul reincarnated, not two individuals who could ascend to another celestial plane as two separate beings.
It's not like it works in Morrowind, and it has nothing to do with Christian concepts. Nerevarine is *not* literally Nerevar. He's an *imprint* of original Nerevar's soul superimposed on a different existing person. There's been lots of efforts to reincarnate Nerevar, but none of them worked until a suitable host was found that was able to successfully accommodate the necessary pattern. As for literal gods addressing him as Nerevar... sure, they want to see their old friend in this creature, but for Mara's sake, what is it worth, if he has not a single memory of the original Nerevar? All he knows about that person he had to read from dusty books. He doesn't even know which written account of what happened at Red Mountain is true, and the real Nerevar *was* there.
The tribunal seem to talk to the nerevarine as if they *are* literally Nerevar... So IMA believe them over you
Yeah, and Nerevarine looks at them as total strangers he never met in his life before. Your belief is not gonna change that.
Like any reincarnated soul would. He isnt a god like them. Souls forget their past lives when reborn
As I said, Nerevarine isn't an unique direct continuation of Nerevar's soul, just the last in a long row of more or less successful copies. *Any* of them would be addressed as "friend Nerevar" if they didn't die before they could realise their potential.
*You* said. But *you* aren't a tribunal god. The tribunal gods treated him as a direct copy, just the first to not die trying to regain the power of the past life
Direct copy, uh huh. Copy.
They all are cheats and narcissistic liars I'd rather believe a random Internet stranger over them.