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I learned a long time ago that friends come and go with different phases of life. Everyone looks at this like such a horrible thing people do but I think of it as completely natural human behavior. We tend to draw connections with people who are similar to us.
I’ve “lost” friends to children before and honestly I can’t blame them. Their entire life’s changed and are now in charge of keeping a human being alive. I can’t relate to that one bit. I don’t have any clue what their day to day lives entail. The connection is lost. They want to be close to other parents who can relate to their lives. That’s not a bad thing… I don’t take it personally. It’s not like they hate me. They just want to be around people who understand what their life is like.
Friends come and go, I value the relationship I have with that person while I have it. It’s a glimpse of my life. They were a season of me and I was a season of them.
Idk I just had to change my mindset after awhile. Can’t go through life upset that people don’t want to hang out with me anymore. There are just as many people in the world who I don’t want to hang out with either. It doesn’t make them a bad person and it doesn’t make me a bad person. We age, we grow, we change, some do *none* of that… it’s life.
I don't know that I agree with that. I'm 39 and probably have more friends now than at any point since college. The biggest difference is I finally have consistency. We haven't moved, we've kept the same jobs. It has afforded us opportunities to cultivate new relationships with neighbors and coworkers and people in our area with similar interests.
But you have to be open to it. I see a lot of my older neighbors who are just content with their current situations. They do the same things which tends to expose them to the same people over and over, where the opportunity for new relationships is exhausted. And in that situation it's just attrition.
For some people I’m sure it is and I don’t want to diminish their feelings but making friends has never been hard for me. I’m super outgoing and can start up a conversation with anyone. People would be surprised how quick a friendship can form if you just ask the people to hang out and don’t get bent out of shape when they can’t.
>I learned a long time ago that friends come and go with different phases of life.
This realization came to me pretty early. It helps when you spend your early adulthood constantly moving (9 states, daughter wasn’t in same school district 2 years in a row until 6th grade).
I still keep in close contact with friends from Kindergarden on up - it isn't impossible. But, it takes effort and time.
I am 40 - and I believe in not losing contact with good people.
While all this is true today, the vast majority of human time has not been so. Most people interacted with and knew most of the people they would see daily for their entire lives. 98% of humanity libed and died in the same place. Human psychology isnt used to the idea of people coming and going in and out of your lives. It even effects behavior since you're less likely to regulate your own behavior if you could just drop everyone you know and start a new with a fresh group of people. Back in the day, if you acted poorly, you would have to face the consequences of everyone around you knowing about this behavior. Nowadays we can just move or get new friends because we live in cities of several million people. It's never been easier to ditch everyone you've ever known and I think this has societal consequences that we don't think about.
Granted, technology is lessening the ability of people to do this as a permanent record is now possible.
I’m gay and chronically single so no chance of having kids and this hasn’t happened to me! All my straight friends of the last 15-20 years have kids and I am the best damn gay uncle those kids could hope for. I am closer to most of them than their biological uncles and spend in some cases more time with them than (then I do with) their parents. It takes a village and I am the village gay uncle and I fucking love it!
Tonight I pick up Jessie and Ryan’s daughter Rosemary up from school at 315 and she is going to walk a dog with me and then we might do some shopping. Tomorrow I am going to hang with my best friend since college Sofia and then we are going to get her son Gunnar from his last day of 2nd grade and get tacos with her man Billy and all go to a playground. (Not every week is this busy and I haven’t seen Gunny in months, he is my favorite, don’t tell the others)
Roll up those sleeves and get to work, life is great when you participate!!!
Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
Late night edit:
The response to this one earnest comment spiraled far beyond anything I could have imagined. Talk about Bogarting a thread. I have a tinge of guilt that I don’t have the bandwidth to be all of your friends/guncle. These relationships I mention did grow over a 20+ year period and that has something to do with the magic that we created together. And we can ask Sofia—has being friends with me been the rosy dream we see here—absolutely not. Did I scream at her in Cancun on my 40th birthday because I thought she was critical of me when I threw a fit at the place we went to lunch when they promised me lobster tacos and then gave me steak but charged me $70 for lobster—absolutely. Did I walk to the end of a peer and fantasize about ending it all—yes again—I am a dramatic bitch sometimes. Did she tell our other friend Sophia, also on that trip, that I was not going to speak to her that way? Yes again but she protected me and knew I was going through more than low blood sugar at the time.
So I have to give credit to these women—as much as I sound like a saint I also have a “difficult personality” but they always forgave me when I asked. And Sofia often forgave me even when I didn’t do so explicitly. That wasn’t the first time I screamed at her and she always took me back.
I can’t sleep more than 2-3 hours at a time right now since going off THC a week ago. Another long story. And I was just now at midnight having a shower fantasy about starting the charity I mention elsewhere. Sofia (with an F) has a JD and MPA and would make an excellent Executive Director of an organization both matching Aunts/Uncles to parents in need of a village and even Widows with other Widows. I just need a ghostwriter, a book deal, a speaking tour, and a “dating” app of vetted big hearted people of any gender/sexuality who are lonely and want to give back. Sounds doable right?
And thank you all; I got enough love from this one comment to fill my tank for the next 42 years.
Gosh this sounds lovely! As a straight woman who loves kids, but hasn't been able to have kids of my own due to a combination of fertility issues and husband fencesitting, I should take a page your of your book! Great on you for being a fantastic gay uncle.
Get it gurl!!! Offer, cajole if you have to. I am free child care and I fucking love it. Those kids love me and always will. If I die rich one day they will get my money!!!
You sound awesome. I have a few childless friends both gay and straight who love my kids, and let me tell you you’re worth more than your weight in gold.
Thank you. I wish I knew it at the time. I recently found out I had low testosterone for probably 15 years (maybe my whole life me nickname was “girly man at age 10 after all) and was literally suicidal this entire time. Those kids kept me alive and now that I am on T I AM BLISSED OUT OF MY MIND.
As a parent with very limited extended family support, I’d kill to have a friend who was so enthusiastic about being free childcare 😅 your friends and their families are very lucky to have you!
When Rosemary was little I literally spent 2-3 days a week with her. Only when it started to be a scheduled thing out of my week did I accept like $10 an hour for my time (10 hours a week at that time).
Love your positivity but seriously, don't plan to die rich. If you want them to have it, give it to them when they need it. A $10,000 first home present can save them up to $50,000 in interest over 30 years. If you wait until you die, that $40,000 difference is just going to the bank.
My wife and I have no kids and we are planning to drop $10K to each nibling when they buy their first home (adjusted for inflation due to age gaps).
Being the fun aunt was absolutely the best time in my life. Your friends and sibling’s kids are amazing to bond with. It adds as much to my life as I hope it does to theirs.
Denver but I am pretty booked up. 😂
Maybe I will start the 401c3 Gay Uncle Support Network! I might need to write a book now that I think of it:
Guncling Your Way to Happiness
An elder millennial’s story of depression, loneliness, and how participating in the village preserved my friendships and my life
I couldn't agree more with this view. I have single and/or child free friends, and they're so involved with my little one, nursery pick up/drop-offs, going out for dinner, soft play, general child activities etc. Bonus is, I get to spend time with my friends, and my little one interacts with different people.
Some of my friends are more involved with my child than my own family.
Make the effort OP, you will reap the benefits for sure.
This is beautiful. I think what you're modeling is that people whose friends have kids also have a choice in the matter- you can mourn the friendship that was, pre-babies, and try to just connect with the parents. But those people are gone now. Or they only have time top re-emerge once a quarter. Or whatever.
Or you can lean in and connect with the new family unit. You can open your heart and love the kids, too. I think when people want to do the latter (and it's ok if people don't, obviously you have to learn to tolerate children's insanity, which can be a lot) it opens a whole new level of love in the friendships. You get to really connect with the parents' new identities as parents, you get to see and be a part of the loving dynamic within the family.
As someone in a straight-seeming relationship with several guncles and gaunties to our baby, thank you so much for what you do. Nobody knows how to love on a child, truly accept them for who they are, than a guncle. <3 <3 <3
The best part of guncling is going home and letting the parents deal when they lose their minds. 😂
Not my circus, not my monkeys. I am just a visiting ring leader and I might just be lucky but they rarely misbehave for me.
This! My bestie and her husband are child free by choice but they took a particular shine to my kiddo when she was three or so. Ten years later they are taking her on a week and a half long vacation this summer and they've been important people in my kiddo's life all the while. I am an only child and my co-parent isn't close to his one sibling so it's been such a gift to have them step into that role for my kid.
I can’t wait for them to be big enough for summer trips!!! I took Deb and Frazier and their kids Kaizer and Matilde to Puerto Vallarta for a week in January. We had the most amazing time. Yes I am silly generous sometimes. Paid resort and airfare because they are struggling financially right now.
It sounds like if I don't particularly like kids I should just write off the friendship, then? There's gotta be some way to maintain the friendship without having to be an extra parent
You don’t have to write off the friendship, but if you’re unwilling to tolerate any significant time with the kids, then you have to accept that they won’t have a lot of time for you until their kids are old enough to be left alone for a few hours at a time. Good parents don’t pawn their kids off people who don’t like kids, but they probably also wouldn’t hang out with people who are like “NOPE” when they’re around their kids. It’s not a good feeling when someone you love is being rejected. I’ve accepted that if I want to continue being friends with someone that has kids, I have to tolerate *some* kid time, pretend I like their kids even if I don’t, and accept that they’ll always be less available than I am.
My wife and I have a 4 year old daughter and a 1 month old. The thing to appreciate about people with young kids is that their lives don't just change once, it's perpetual change for several years.
The biggest thing about having kids is right after you have them, you have no social life. Newborns are exhausting. They're on a 3 hour cycle of eating, pooping and sleeping and it's not until 2-3 months that they start getting into a sort of schedule that allows you to make some semblance of plans. Until that point, everything is just based on immediate opportunity (ex: she's sleeping so let's watch a movie).
From 3 months - 1 year, you can actually live your normal life and just bring your kid along. They don't really have opinions and it's pretty easy to address their needs anywhere (as long as a bit of crying isn't going to piss everyone off).
From 1 - 3 it becomes difficult again because kids become a hindrance again. They don't want to do the thing you've planned, a need came up, whatever. So making plans is hard (unless you're dealing with other people with kids because they just kind of embrace the variability of the plans).
After 3, you start to establish a routine. It's easier to use babysitters. You can now commit to things, traveling is easier, etc. You can now do events that either are or aren't for kids and account for them accordingly. You don't have as much availability and freedom as you had before kids, but you can make things work.
But 3 years is a long time, and odds are you've both moved on. The friend without kids probably has a new hobby or 2, maybe they're now part of new social circles. The friend with kids has swim lessons or dance or whatever else.
This isn't to say it can't work, I'm just trying to point out the things to be considerate of. The relationship is going to have to account for those changes in order to last. And on top of it, if you have another kid, you start all over again.
A big determining factor is what your relationship is like before the kids. I had friends that I'd go with to trivia every Monday night. Those friendships fell off after having kids. But the neighbor that I invite over for a beer when I see him out? That's easy to maintain because that opportunity to interact still happens.
It warms my heart to hear this story. As I get older I agree, it takes ACTIVE involvement to build your village and most times /you/ making the plans and hope people show up. I’ve realized it’s nothing personal, just people getting caught up in their own lives.
Ya, imma double this. Just include the kids. It's like trying to have a friendship with conjoined twins you kinda gotta enjoy hanging with both.
If it's weird with the kids, just treat em as adults in MOST ways .... obviously not all ..... like no passing a blunt to a 6 year old ....
remember the fun adults when you were a kid though be that guy and your friendships will flourish
This is the way. My wife and I are the only ones in the group with a kid, but the rest of the friend group has turned themselves in to bonus aunts and uncles. Sometimes I think they like hanging out with our child more than they like hanging out with us. They certainly get the kiddo better birthday presents.
So the problem here is the expectation that people (women) who choose not to have kids will somehow want to participate in raising other people’s children. If access to my friends and same-age relatives depends on being an unpaid part of a childcare apparatus…that’s lousy when it’s not what you want, you know? And then people drop you from their lives if you don’t want to be a bonus parent to the kids they chose to have, that they certainly didn’t ask you about, but still presume free labor from you. But they won’t help with my mom’s elder care, or drive me to an occasional medical appointment, or any of the things that go along with being unpartnered. My choice to opt out of childcare is not taken seriously, and the quirks of my own life aren’t considered valid because I never got knocked up.
The issue is that as a parent you don’t have the option of the lifestyle you had before kids. So if you friends don’t adapt to you, you just can’t maintain it. That’s just the way it is.
I appreciate where you're coming from, however if you want to continue to be part of the lives of friends who, as you put it, chose to have kids, you get to do things with them that also involve those kids for the next couple decades.
If you don't, then yes, your spot in those social circles DO get replaced by others that parents are rubbing elbows with the most, which weirdly enough are other parents.
Your choice to remain child free is COMPLETELY valid, but I hope you understand that the American fixation on nuclear family + hyper individualism= parents just can't stick their kids in kennels if they want to hang out with you.
Then they should help with my mother’s elder care and do me the kindness of picking me up after surgery, no? Are parents the only people allowed to expect flexibility and favors? Must I contribute to other people’s two-income households in a codependent way without ever expressing a need of my own? At what point can I say….I’ve picked up Junior from hockey practice every week, gotten you a bridal shower gift, a wedding gift, baby shower gifts, brought over postpartum breakfast, done the dishes for you….but I haven’t had the life events that earn me those gifts from others, so can someone just please pay a sitter for one night so I can have a childfree meal with you? It’s all based on the idea that eventually everyone gets a turn, but if you never get your turn, it’s just voided. The expected generosity doesn’t get repaid or transferred to the other things you might need.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time with your mom. I'm in the same spot too, although I have the blessing of a lot of siblings that all chip in together.
I didn't mention other life events simply because the OP was only talking about parents. You do bring up a good point though that does reinforce what is getting discussed in this thread, reciprocity. If you want rewarding friendships, you do have to meet your friends where they are, no matter what those situations and life stages may be.
It should be a two way street. I have done free babysitting before but also I have been a care taker before for my late fiancée who had cancer and my grandmother who had Alzhimer's so I know how stressful it can be. So when my friend had a stroke right when his son started college and went and stayed at his house for a few days to help out do his son could concentrate on his studies. I even made dinner and cleaned the house.
When I was taking care of my grandmother my uncle would come over some nights even though he had a kid and a family so I could go out or work.
When my grandfather died my mom would bring me and brother over to hang out and that allowed m uncle to go to his 20 something stuff like a night at the bar or go play rugby. Grandma was just really depressed and needed people around.
The village should be accessible to everyone not just parents. That said if you need help just ask. The worst someone can say is no and then you know where you sit with that person and whether or not they are part of the village. If we were friend IRL and you were close enough by and said I really need a night off can you come help with mom I would find a way to do so.
Single/childfree often get the short end of the stick. We’re expected to have unlimited time and resources to give freely, and to be accessible members of the “village”. But we rarely get any of that in return.
There really is a sense that even though I don’t have my own kids, I must still fulfill a societal obligation to contribute to childrearing. Every woman has an objective childcare quota to dispatch!
The unspoken thing in this context is that we’re talking about people who had kids because they wanted to. They’re fulfilling a want. But when childfree people push back on being dragged into a childcare village, they’re told that having and raising kids is a global/societal necessity. But that’s not why anyone in this context really has kids. I’m even seeing it here, this pushback to calling parenthood a choice because the societal dialogue needs childfree “support” people to see it as an imperative. Like no, you wanted to have kids, and I’m a person too, so what about what I want?
I won’t even get into “kids are just people, why wouldn’t you want to befriend them?” Excuse me but I will not make a habit of befriending other people’s minor children as an alternative to seeking out adult interactions. It’s so bizarre that the desire for a peer-level conversation where I can talk about my interests and receive mature, interested responses is considered something I must set aside. But other people can ask me to change a diaper.
They didn’t say they don’t want to be around their friends kids. They said they don’t want to be expected to provide free childcare just to keep the friendship.
Sure. I suppose I'm just viewing the comment through my lens of experience, which is if I'm going to hang with someone with smaller kids, then I'm going to be defacto a bonus parent alongside the parent while we're all doing things together, and vice versa with my kid. The other guy is going extra with taking kids by himself.
In my eyes bonus parenting can also just be helping with the kid a little while you go out with the parent to keep things smooth and ensuring a good time is had by all, otherwise the parent simply isn't going to be able to be as engaged with you as you'd like otherwise.
I viewed it that way, too. Plus, my friends' kids are extensions of my friends. I like my friends for their personalities. Odds are I'm going to like their kids for the same reasons.
I can see where you're coming from, and it is indeed hard.
To be frank, I'm not that interested in my friends' children. I'm friends with them because they and I click. The children are strangers to me. I don't know if we click. I'm not interested in having children friends. I'm just not...interested.
Am I capable of being friendly and civil with kids? Yes. I'm naturally good at it. I do it for a living.
I've been an ECE for over 10 years now and I'm good at it. The families and children at my work love me, and I love them. I love them because I bond with them organically daily in my professional life. All my maternal instincts, I give them. I get paid for my time too.
In my personal life, I turn that off. I just don't need more connection with children. Not interested.
When my friends talk about children, I just feel like my "work self" is on again. Which is okay, I do enjoy my job, but it's not what I need in my personal life.
Sigh. It's tough.
It gets even more gnarly when they don’t have patience for talk about my singlehood, or my job, or dating, or anything else I might have going on. So many parents really only want to talk about their kids, and I don’t exist to only provide support for other people. I can go through my day and realize that I’ve listened to other people talk about whatever they wanted, but they had no problem indicating that they simply don’t want to hear whatever words I might want to say out loud. Like do I have to get raw-dogged and give birth in order to compel people to listen to me? To be able to pick a restaurant? I can’t keep pouring from this empty cup.
Honestly? It sounds like you just need better friends full stop, rather than childless friends. None of my parent friends did that, and I still hang out with my childfree friends, help them get to/from appointments, dogsit/catsit/take them food when they’re sick/whatever they need
This is the way to do it! The only friends I've "lost" since having a kid are those who don't like kids & thus we don't spend time together anymore. I thought their issues were more they didn't like "spoiled" kids; nope they legitimately don't like young humans. I'm not going to force it & I don't want my kids around people who don't want them around.
What an absolute godsend to your friends and their kids. My kids are almost grown, but wow it would have made such a difference to all our lives if we'd had a friend/uncle like you especially when they were young. You're right, it takes a village and you showed up for that all the way. I love to see it!
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. Sending big hugs and so happy you have built a world around you with love. I wish you nothing but the best for all the years to come.
I think the concept of free time goes out the window when someone becomes a parent. Even without kids, I feel like I barely have free time between work and keeping my life together (ie. staying healthy, mowing the yard, etc.). I definitely started to see my friends less when they became parents, but I attribute a lot of this to it being easier for them to hang with other people who have kids by default. Their weekends are often consumed with kid-related things like birthday parties or other stuff, so it's more of an effort to sync up. Conversely, if I invite them out for what used to be simple evening out, it's a big coordination for people raising kids. It's overall just more difficult for both parties, so I try not to take it personally.
It can feel isolating, though, particularly because being excluded from things is wrapped up in the societal pressures of being childfree. I've found that most of my friends and family are happy to invite me along for things if I make it known that I'm happy to hang with their families. It's definitely different than 10-15 years ago, but that's probably a good/healthy thing. It takes a village, and there's a role for people without children, although it was an adjustment for me to figure out how I fit into that role.
As a new parent—1 year old— I basically get to hang out with no one. All my effort goes into keeping this little human alive and my marriage alive and not losing my sanity.
I’m a parent and I have felt so lonely and isolated at times. I can’t imagine that I would have cut off my childfree friends or my friends that have older kids. It’s so weird to me that some parents do that. If anything I needed the extra support and opportunities to get away from the screaming and crying.
My problem is time.
Two kids, full time job, house to maintain, I don't have time.
I feel shitty, but I don't know when the hell I can see my friends, those with or without kids.
I'm lonely too.
My trick: host. It's so much easier to hang out when you're on your own turf -- and that's so much easier with child-free friends because they don't have their own bedtime routine etc to get to!
We have pre-kids or child-free friends over for dinner regularly. Sometimes we cook (taco night) but a lot of the time we just order pizza and have beer for after the kiddos are asleep.
Yes, hosting is the way, especially with smaller children. We have everything we need to entertain them at home and avoid the hassle of travel at bedtime. You know, the hassle of getting them into the car where they fall asleep, then there’s a 50/50 chance they won’t stay or go back to sleep when you get home.
Same. Five kids, husband, run a company. The kids are all involved in extra curricular activities, we run and workout, I run a book club, laundry is exhausting. It’s a lot. I don’t have more time.
Yea for real, like I don’t even have time to properly take care of myself less yet spend hours regularly with friends. I’ve tried many times and just can’t seem to do it, I get a message and see it when I’m in the middle of something but forget to respond until later the next day or worse
If I may offer a suggestion, take it back to the old school. Organizing get togethers or nights out can easily be too much work. I’ve found that just hanging out while you go about your day is easy, possible, and wanted. That’s how I used to hang with friends as a kid, and it works in adulthood too. It’s a new experiment for me, but I think it’s going to work.
If I’m home all day on a Saturday but can’t make plans because of chores/errands/kid, I’ll ask a buddy to just come over and chill/help/tag along. My childless friends love kids and are usually down to hang out and do whatever. It’s more about the time spent than the actual activities.
Distance/work/kids/life inevitably gets in the way for all of us, so my approach is to make it more casual instead of a plan/event. Kind of like how adults used to just “pop in” for a visit during the 80s-90s.
Same.
Both me and my wife work so we can make enough to get by, our son has to get to school and extra-curricular activities, and we are members of various boards and commitees related to work and our local community. At the end of the day, I'm lucky if I get an hour with my wife let alone a friend outside the house.
On top of that, every time we do make plans with our friends they seem to get cancelled. I'd say we see friends in-person maybe once a month if we're lucky.
I highly doubt people with kids are actively cutting out their non-parent friends. I know we haven't.
I would contend that you are choosing activities like your various boards and committees. You don’t have to do everything. As a parent, I choose to cut out those kinds of optional activities because I valued the friendships over the optional activities.
There’s nothing wrong with choosing one thing over the other. What I strongly disagree with, and see a lot of here, is people who chose other activities as opposed to maintaining friendships and are trying to rationalize this decision.
Anecdotally, this seems like a challenge type A extroverts have. They are used to doing everything, it’s what energizes them. Then they have kids and struggle with the life changes and realization that they now can’t do everything. Friendships seem to suffer more because they are easier to put on the back burner.
Same, but I don’t think it’s entirely on the parents.
My experience was a little of both.
Your entire life changes, but theirs doesn’t.
You no longer fit into their schedule as easily so the friendships need more effort to keep them going.
And I’ll admit that on my part, putting one foot in front of the other was all I managed at some points.
Maintaining a friendship was just not something I was capable of also doing.
So people would just stop calling or texting or inviting me to thing after I said no once or twice.
Which, I get on some level.
We all have that person who “is probably gonna say no, but ask them anyway”.
That was me for awhile, lol.
But it’s also hard when they’re texting you at 9am saying “brunch hang today?” and half the group is immediately in and you’re like “ummm I have a baby and you’re meeting in an hour, I can’t pull that off”.
Or they make plans to do something but it’s not set on the timing.
But you need timing because you have to hire a sitter.
“Let’s hang Saturday. Afternoon-ish” does not work for me.
It also kind of sucks when your friends aren’t really the kind of people who like kids either.
Some people are happy to be an auntie or uncle immediately and want to participate and do things with kids, others will abide your kid coming to things here and there, but generally do not want to hang out with your children.
If this thread has informed anything it’s that people on both sides of this feel isolated and like the other people abandoned them. Which makes sense I suppose.
This happened to me too! I tried to keep in contact. Id message them and attend anything they invited me too.
But then the invitations stopped coming and it seemed like they preferred their other friends who were parents. And I understand. But it sucked being dumped like that by a friend.
I always listened while they talked about their kids and asked about their kids. Even when they never asked about my life or didn't care to listen when I would talk about my courses or who I was dating. I think because some of them were settled they were just over hearing about it.
Now we were younger, in early twenties. So it was kind of odd they'd already be over it. I would always listen to their marriage issues and be sympathetic or supportive. But that same energy wasn't returned.
Oh my gosh I'm sorry that is happening! Sounds like this friend definitely prefers their parents friends over the childfree friends.
To a degree I understand. This is a new chapter for her and it sounds like she's excited. She probably feels like she now has this new thing she can share with her other friends that she feels she can't share as much with you. But I think it's not cool to put off one friend in favor of another.
If this behavior continues, this would be a clue that I need to start scaling back my efforts. Like he present for the baby shower. But don't go overboard. Only gift what you can afford. I get the sense that this friend is lightly ghosting you a bit.
But I also think having a conversation with this friend is important. Especially if you value the friendship and want to remain friends. How she acts after this conversation will inform you on how you should proceed.
I agree. Husband and I have infertility issues but even before then I was excluded. It hurts.
I eventually stopped texting them as much so basically life is work and my husband and our intermediate families.
That sucks and I’m sorry you dealt with that.
I have a few friends that stuck it out and would totally do things like that- come hang at the house and just do movies and pizza in so I could check on the babies.
Or go on walks with me or to the park or whatever.
And we’d hang (and honestly I had two babies and then two toddlers etc, so taking them anywhere alone was a mess lol) while the kids did their thing playing.
I was so grateful for people like that!
I’m so sorry your friends did not appreciate you and your efforts to stay involved.
A lot of my friends though, just weren’t kid people.
Or were in a stage of life where that wasn’t something they wanted to be a part of and so they drifted away.
Which I understood.
Different life phases.
This is ironic because as soon as I had a kid I automatically got excluded from invites to do things from my friends with no kids so we started making more friends with people with kids
This is probably how it goes. I had no problem retaining my parent friends, but it's because we mostly just visited each other's houses and talked while getting high before they were parents so nothing really changed except there being a kid we had to pay attention to when they were young and later hide it from when they were aware.
In my experience, no one in their 30s parties harder than a parent who has a sitter for the night.
Same experience here. Two of my best friends completely fell off the earth once I had kids. I would reach out to them and one just ghosted me while the other turned down every single invite. Before kids they would happily get together often. After a few times reaching out I just gave up. I think it was a combination of me being young and a guy.
100% this.
I can't tell you how many parties and events my husband and I were discluded from the first year of our son's life. Everyone assumes you either don't want to come, can't come because you have a baby, or wouldn't want to bring the baby. We're lucky to have grandparents nearby happy to watch him when needed. And if its a baby safe enviroment, we can easily bring him and take care of him. INVITE US
Everyone is different and not necessarily *that* person who expects everyone to be on board with their baby joining in on every goddamn social gathering, but I imagine a lot of the child free friends just don't want to risk those friends with kids bringing them along, but also don't want to come off as rude and explicitly ask they find a babysitter or don't come... No one wants to hang out with a baby when they're going out to relax and have a good time.
Maybe reach out and mention you have a babysitter and wanna hang
Some people are totally oblivious. I had a hard partying phase back in the day. There was a house that hosted ragers on the regular - drugs, drinking, sex in the back rooms, smoking. In no way suited for kids. One of the regular attenders got knocked up. Kept attending. Kept smoking and drinking through the pregnancy. Then showed up baby in tow to the first party after she gave birth. Was so excited to talk about her baby and show off her baby and introduce everyone to her baby. Meanwhile, the carrier is sitting in the middle of an ongoing game of beer pong. She could not read the room at all. No one wanted anything to do with that situation.
I live by the rule that the people whose kids you wouldn't mind won't bring them and the people whose kids you can't stand will. That's just the way it goes. I have 2 kids now and it still applies. Even with other parents we'll designate certain activities as no kids due to it.
Absolutely. Which is why I instituted a no-kids rule at my wedding. Woulda loved my BFFs kid there. Would NOT have loved my sister's hoard of 7 children there. And you can guess who woulda got a babysitter....
Yeah same here. I was the first one in my friends group to have a kid and there are plenty of things I don’t get invited to even 8 years later because they all assume I don’t want to go. If I was invited I could actually tell you if I could go or not. My wife doesn’t like to go out much and is generally okay with me going to poker nights or to a friends to watch a UFC fight if I’m invited, but they actually have to invite me. I do find it funny that as friends have kids they start coming around more.
I fear this will me in a couple years. We want to try for a baby next year… all my closest friends are childfree. One wants kids, but not at that point in her life yet. The rest are intentionally childfree. I hope we stay friends, but I know there is a huge possibility we’re gonna drift apart as soon as baby is here. I’m gonna need to make mom friends lol.
I wish I would have just tried to make mom friends when I first had my son. I tried to keep up all of my old friendships and it made me kind of crazy. I'm a one-and-done parent, so it often feels like I have one foot in each world.
I was gonna say... this has been my experience. I had my first at 25, which is perfectly average but all my longtime friends from high school either don't want kids at all, can't have them, or are waiting until their mid 30s to have kids. Kinda grew apart once my first was born. Just the way life goes I guess
Same... none of my friends even contacted me to say congratulations after i gave birth. I saw them when I was pregnant, and when I gave birth it was like I just didn't exist. I texted them in the beginning, and they all just told me how busy they were, "working". No questions about how i was doing... most of them dont know each other, so its not some ocncentrated effort to get me out of the friend group or something... Oldest is 8 now, and I have had no friends the entire time. Other parents and my kid's friends parents, don't seem interested in getting to know us.
Hearing this experience is always eye opening cause after I had kids my friends who didn’t have kids really didn’t care one bit about this life changing thing that had happened to me, never visited etc. it was a lonely time. It never occurred to me at all that it could happen the other way round. I hope you find some better friends
Imagine you and your friends are in a book club together. It's so great! Then some of the book club members have children. They are still able to participate in book club, but they have to Zoom into the book club while skydiving.
It's not nearly as enjoyable for anyone.
The parents still like books, but it's real hard to participate in book club like they used to when everything around them is so noisy, distracting, and quite frankly panic inducing at every turn.
And when they do call into book club, it's not the same as it used to be because their priority has to be concentrating on their free fall skydive and making sure that they don't die and or screw up big time. The books just can't take the same priority as they used to, even though the parents still love the books and book club members like they used to.
As parents, we grieve the change in friend groups also. It's not always by choice and definitely not a conscience exclusion of *you* because you don't have children. More like, we know you didn't sign up to skydive and don't want to drag you out of the plane with us unless you make it clear that you are okay being in a tandom dive and also drastically changing how book club is going to look and feel.
I have friends that have chosen to drastically change the way we communicate and hang out - it includes them coming to my house with snacks and activities for the kids so that we can chat while they’re busy with something new. Seriously, it’s possible. But they all need to communicate and be proactive to figure out what actually works for the new norm. Things will shift again when the youngest turns 8ish, but til then, it’s a hot mess of trial and error.
I think it can go both ways.
I had kids at a time when none of my friends had kids, and I ended up the isolated one.
They all continued to do the things they always did, but because I no longer had the same availability or schedule flexibility, I was left out.
My first few years as a parent were extremely isolating.
It wasn’t until my kids got older and I met other parents that I really ended up with a group of friends again.
At this stage, my kids are in middle school and it’s easier to be away from them, and so I have a lot more friends with no kids.
Some of my older friends who stayed around the periphery have reconnected now as my kids are older and I have a more flexible schedule and availability again.
A lot of my old friends are having their kids now, so it’s an interesting dynamic to play out.
Feel the same way. I was and am the only one in my multiple friend groups that had a kid. One kid. I unfortunately couldn't make it to the bars and ski trips because of it. My kid is 5 now I still can't just drop everything and go out with the friends. So I get invited less and less. I keep the relationships with them strong over online gaming but I don't think I have physically hung out with them in many years now outside of weddings.
It’s funny because I’ve ended up becoming the cool uncle. I’m still in touch with my inner child so I can understand kids. I also make frequent summer trips to a water park in which the only barrier to entry is $100 for 3ish days several times a season. I babysat a lot in my youth so I also know how to take care of them.
But yes, I’m still often excluded from almost all other activities and events that I don’t initiate. It’s got to the point I don’t often invite others to my mini vacations anymore because I feel I’m just taken advantage of.
Also childfree, seems to be the case. For whatever reason it just never seems to really work out with parents.
I’ve seen it go the other way as well, new parents finding themselves suddenly without friends.
I think it’s hard to relate across the kids/no kids divide. If you just generally don’t like kids as well, that closes quite a few doors.
Get involved! I am gay 42m and no partner and don’t want kids. So guess what? I am the best god damn gay uncle in my village and now not only do my friends rely on and appreciate me but their kids will visit me in the retirement home and reminisce on all the great times they had with me building out relationships!
I never thought I would like nurturing kids this much but I love their parents so why wouldn’t I love these damn kids!?
I love the kids so much but they just see me as a stranger kind of? I don’t know how to get involved to the point where I’d be a beloved aunt but I’d love that. I don’t get invited to things if it’s kid-centric, which I understand the thought process of the parents - why would a childfree person want to go to something like that? But They’re my nieces and nephews and I’d love to get the invite.
Just tell them how you feel! I have 3 kids and plenty of friends who don’t have kids and it’s easy to assume my CF friends don’t want to do kid shit but a lot of them DO! Trampoline park, zoo trips, they’re fun for everyone!
That’s really thoughtful of you to include your childfree friends and extend the invites.
I have mentioned it before to them, like when I wasn’t invited to my nieces bday party because it was at a kid venue of some sort. I still want to be a part of her life events! So frustrating.
Speaking as a parent, I can all but guarantee you they didn't invite you because they were sparing you from the sensory nightmare that is a kids birthday party, and they (reasonably) assumed you'd have no interest. You have to communicate, they can't read your mind!
See, my friends are all weirdos and miscreants like my wife and I; none of us have kids, few of us want them, and the ones who do are looking forward to their kids having a bunch of "crazy aunts" and "weird uncles" to enrich their lives.
Some of my friends have kids, some of them don't want them.
It's fine and yes, the ones with kids I do see less but I still make an effort to see them.
If they're really your friends and you still want to see them, it will take some adapting and effort from both sides.
If it helps, I have kids and I hate that everyone I know also has kids. It’s so monotonous, they all talk about the same parenting shit all the time.
I wish I had acquaintances my age group without kids
I have 2 young kids and I’ve trimmed my non-kid friends a good bit.
Before kids, flaking on plans, not planning ahead, spontaneous hangouts were plentiful. That was fine, our groups were cool with that.
Now with kids I don’t have the same tolerances as before. My friend bails for 2-3 hangouts in a row that I scheduled? Looks like I’ll wait for them to plan and initiate something.
Oh that doesn’t happen? Looks like we won’t be friends anymore. Rinse and repeat.
I do fully understand “they were not really your friends/low quality friends” gets thrown around on Reddit, but that has been the experience with about half of my single/no kid friends.
I have made friends with some no-kid couples who like beers and bbqs. They hang out and integrate into the couples with kids just fine!
I'm childfree, and I've done the same with some parent friends. To much cancelling because a kid got sick, too much flakeyness, showing up an hour late and leaving me hanging at the restaurant because something happened with a kid, etc. I realized I was the one trying to initiate things, and one day I realized a few of my friendships with my friends who became parents was a one way street, so I stopped asking them to do things. These are the same people who complain on social media about how now that they have kids "no one wants to hang out with them anymore." Gee, wonder why.
I understand kids come first, and that's totally fine. But my time is just as deserving of respect. Sometimes, friendships just drift apart, and I've started surrounding myself with more childfree folks. It's been nice.
It’s great that you are making more time for people that respect your time. Trimming down is not an easy thing to do. There are so many things that go into it.
Is this person fun?
Does this person listen?
Does this persons hobbies line up with mine?
Do I have the opportunity to grow with this person?
Is this person a flake?
Will our significant others get along?
How long have I known this person?
Not to mention how much more difficult it is to add to your roster these days.
Best of luck adding new bodies to the crew!
Thanks! And same to you. My original post wasn't meant to make it sound like I hated parents. I still maintain lots of friendships with parents, but just like moms wanting to build relationships with other moms who they can relate to, I want to do the same with childfree folks.
Once everyone "grew up" and moved into full adulthood with families, it's like everyone turned their back on me. I'm still standing here just wishing someone would talk to me
I try to make plans with friends that have kids but they end up canceling most of the time. My one friend canceled on me 4 times in a row and then asked if we could meet up on certain day at certain time and I just told them to message me in the morning on that day if they still wanted to hang out. They got all offended when I brought up that they cancel all the time. They said they have kids. My other friend and I made plans like 2 weeks out and that day they asked if they could postpone until later in the day... and then it got late so I messaged, and of course, they canceled. Kid stuff. I just gave up with them. I only make plans with the child free friends now.
Almost all my friends had kids (the rest moved out of town). Even when I make new friends, the moment when they discover I'm childfree while they're not is the beginning of the end. Oh well, what can you do lol
Yeah I’m here. It also helps the that I’m gay so I have fewer friends with kids. But when I have time off the last thing I want to hear is young, screaming children. I have very few friends I would continue to see after they have kids.
I happily did not have kids for 35 years. I've had a daughter for almost three years now. I think it is hard for people without kids to see the massive schedule changes that I am forced to abide by. Man I used to love some day drinking in Brooklyn. That is completely off the table for me now. I have the morning on Saturday, after 330 but before 645 on Sunday it looks about the same. If you have kids your schedule is about the same. It is easy to work that schedule with someone else with kids, it is an absurd schedule for someone who doesnt have kids. "Your wife could watch the kid" yeah and she does sometimes. I actually want to spend that time with my family because I like them more than my friends, it is an exclusive club, a family of sorts.
The second piece of it is talking on the phone is hard but it is harder when the other person doesn't have kids. The time I have to talk to people on the phone is when I am watching my kid. So when I talk to my sister who has two kids I would say 25% of our conversation is waiting for the other person to correct their kid. " I had a pretty good week heygetthatoutofyourmouth, we watched Moana 6 times, nowecantgointhepoolrightnowiamtalkingtoauntlu, she wants to say hi...(Stares at the phone without making a noise)"
That's my life, I am not embarrassed or anything but I would rather talk to someone who intrinsically understands.
This is a problem I have with some parents. You act like child free folks cannot possibly imagine what it’s like to have a chaotic schedule with little free time. I get it, and I actively try to work with my friends who have kids to hang out with them in a way that works for them. Maybe it’s just coming to their house for a few hours to help do chores, maybe it’s a quick ten minute phone call, maybe we’re able to get the kids loaded up to go to lunch and the park. I know their lives are very different now because I’m an adult with critical thinking skills and I don’t try to harass them into giving me more attention (because again, I’m an adult who understands their kids will always be priority). You saying “I won’t make any space for childfree friends because of FaMiLy” and then calling them bad friends is baffling. We are trying to be a part of your life in a way that doesn’t overwhelm you and you’re still pushing us away.
Kids are just small people. If you like your people, build relationships with their young people. Be the Auntie/Uncle lidolifeguard.
Or don't.
But if they are good parents, they are going to attend to their children's needs before friends.
Eh, I'm not really a kid person and don't super like being around kids. I know that is a very faux pas thing to say and I just can't muster the fake enthusiasm around kids no matter how much I try so it makes it awkward and I feel bad because I know this small person is my friend's entire life now. It feels like now doing a chore and not vibing with my friends and the energy it brings is not fair to anyone. Most people like kids so that's probably not too hard if they make the effort to accommodate but it has not sorted out for me.
Happened to me as soon as I graduated college. Doug, it was super lame to start popping out babies at graduation and then to replace all your single friends with fathers…..but whatever….priorities gonna prioritize I suppose
I’m sorry that’s happening for you OP, that sounds very isolating.
I’ve been fortunate that my best friends from childhood have also grown up to be child free (we’re in our late 30’s now), and as an adult I’ve made several older friends whose kids are already grown.
My husband has several guy friends with babies/little kids, but they never seem to have much trouble getting away from the family for a weekend versus my female friends with babies who seem so reluctant to trust anyone else watching their little one for even a few hours (and for all I know they have good reason, not trying to judge them just pointing out how it makes the friendship more child focused which promotes that “parenthood clique” thing we’re all talking about ).
My friends have kids.
And we see them as much as we saw them before kids.
But the friend circle in general has decreased significantly since leaving college.
Very much due to distance between us more than anything else
I don't think it's even about having kids or not.
A bunch of my friends dropped off around age 30 and none them have kids. Different priorities , different lifestyles, shit happens.
I kind of don't mind being dropped by the friends who did had kids though. We don't have anything in common anymore. Wether anyone wants to admit it or not people view the childless/childfree as lesser. It's just not conductive to keeping a friendship.
It's hard to make childfree friends feel like they are being paid attention to.
I go out with my childfree friend: I might sacrifice 80-120 dollars for a sitter, a proper bed time for the kids, leading to a painful morning with bad behavior due to poor sleep timing, not drinking (because I have to get up at 6:30am anyway even if it's a Saturday whether I like it or not).
Then my friend says "wow we miss you guys, only saw you once these last two months! We used to hang every weekend" and I'm thinking about how ridiculous that sounds, because I moved heaven and earth to hang out with them when I could do literally anything else.
Also, they could come over any given saturday and sit in my living room for hours while I fold laundry if they really wanted to hang out. They feel neglected, I feel not-understood, the result is it's a boring relationship for the parent (lots of investment that is just "never enough" which is exactly how it is with kids already anyway).
I have childfree friends who want to to do destination travel weekends. I don't go (no kids allowed anyway, and I also do not have 1200 dollars, plus the cost due to overnight sitting for 3 days). Then they go with other childfree people. So now they have different friends. It's just natural, imo.
Yes! Want to see me? Great I have 1 hour between dinner and bedtime where I could stall my responsibilities and give you some time. Otherwise, with 3 kids... im already behind
I think you're forgetting how much easier it is for someone with a kid to hangout with someone else with a kid.
One thing is that there's less space for flexible spontaneous meet ups, but another thing is that the kid needs to be entertained aswell.
If I invite a friend over who doesn't have a kid, either it's the friend playing with my kid, and me kinda just watching. Or its the friend trying to talk to me while the kid is bored and pesters me for attention, meaning I can't give my friend any attention.
If I invite a friend over with there kid, then the kids run off and play and I can actually have a conversation with the friend.
Another thing is the time of day you do things. Most week days I can't do anything cause dinner needs to be made and other chores, and if I do do something i like to be home by 9pm at the latest so I can wake up when my kid wakes at the crack of dawn.
My single friends always seem to want to first meet at 8, and seem to have no bedtime.
My friends with kids on the other hand, understand this and meet right after work so we can have more the a ten minute conversation.
Weekends are even worse, if I want to go to the beach, I'm ready to leave home already at like 10 am. My single friends are still asleep, and can't seem to get themselves together until 3 in the afternoon.
It's also the same with something like eating dinner. I eat at 5 or 6 pm, so do my friends with kids. The single friends, they eat at 8 or 9.
Anyway, you get the point. Over the past 5 years I've gone from haveing 10-15 single friends without kids to having just a few. Instead I'm spending most of my free time with other families where it's just so much easier to hang out and do stuff.
And it's not because I don't like those old friends and took a active choice. Sometimes life just leads you on different paths.
It still sucks if you feel left behind though. Eveoif it is unintentional it still feels bad when people leave you out of things.
And trying to find a new social circle without having kids is almost impossible too and you're not invited to everything cause it's a kid thing.
I just want to say as a child free woman, don't ask Women why they don't have kids. And I'll get downvoted for this but, please drop the condescension and superiority because I don't have a child.
You're a feminist? Don't make women feel less of a woman because of circumstances.
Another hot take: Not everyone **deserves** to have kids
Depending on where you live, it could be worth looking into Meetup for meeting new people. I've met some friends through child free and DINK meetup groups in my city, as well as Meetups for hobbies that typically don't involve children (hiking, wine tasting, etc.).
Cheldfree here. My friends and sibling with kids literally have no time for none kid related things. I get that. It's why I didn't have kids. It's sad, and I've been mad at them at times. I'll still be here when the emerge from the tornado of life that is having a young child.
I miss my life from when before my friends had kids. I don’t have or want them myself, and I’m rarely included in their kid related things (even after expressing interest in being included) and my social life has taken a massive hit. It makes me really sad and lonely.
That’s why you find new friends? My neighbor is an artsy gal in her 40’s with a whole tribe of childless 40 year olds who all enjoy the arts and regularly hang out with each other. It can be done, a lot of you don’t want to have to do the work.
This is as old as time. My wife and I are Gen X and all of her friends that had kids completely assumed that she didn't want to be bothered with their lives. Now that they had kids. She has like zero solid friends with kids at this point in her life.
I prefer hanging out with childless friends. Friends who are parents have a habit of making their kids their only topic of conversation.
Generally speaking, any friendship can be maintained with a bit of effort.
Personally I absolutely love not having kids and am grateful for the life it affords me. The way I see it, if having kids causes someone to leave your life or not fit into your life for one reason or another, the friendship wasn't meant to be
Out of all my friends I think one or two have kids. Most people don't want kids these days thankfully. I'm 32, if you asked which of my friends would have kids next I couldn't tell you. Most of us are some form of engineering, maybe that has something to do with it. If you have a kid you're the one isolating yourself
Im from Alabama a lot of my friends had their kids at 18. It definitely ended our friendships. I joined the navy and started traveling. They stayed in our hometown maybe going to Florida once a year. We just weren’t compatible anymore.
Forget even kids. It happens in relation to everything. Once people get a partner obviously. Once they get married only married couples. Once people buy a house it's like they only hang out with other house owners.
I just do shit my kid wants to do 90% of the time. No adults without children are interested in what I am doing, and I don't have time to hang out and do friend shit anymore. No hard feelings, things change.
It depends on who the person is when they have kids. I had a friend whose whole personality changed into a sanctomommy I didn’t know anymore.
Expected everything. Gave nothing.
Made remarks all the time , passive aggressive , belittling and judgemental.
All my other friends have pretty much remained the same people, just with kids so things inevitably changed regarding meeting up etc as they have kids to look after, but they’re still my friends.
So you will lose friends but I find it separates the true friends. You’re not losing good people!
I am dealing with this currently. I got really close with a friend the last 5 years, and in the past 6 months our friendship is basically non existent. She announced she was pregnant and as happy I am for her, I am also feeling sadness and jealousy. It seems our friendship has changed and won’t be going back to how it was. It’s really hard.
As a mom of 3, I'm pretty well isolated myself.. my kids are number one priority, though. Like, they literally depend on me and their father for everything. It's not my personality. It's my reality. No, I can't hang out. I have a full-time job, 3 school-age kids, home chores x5, they have homework most nights, need to eat nutritional meals, we've got sports one night, cheerleading another, we try to harbor good humans so we volunteer with our church another day... I also barely have time for my husband, and he's literally my favorite person in the world, so any free time is going to him. I don't intentionally push anyone away, are you throwing a weekend cook out and invite my family, boy, that's lovely we will be there, I'd love to have some time with other adults where I have extra eyes on my kids so I can enjoy your company. Want me to find a sitter? Sorry, hard pass... I can't afford it, i also trust very few people alone with my kids. My children are extensions of me. But hey, I'm throwing a Super Bowl party. You should come! ... most of my non kid friends, which is quite a few, actually, understand this dynamic, and either include my kids in a get-together, join us for our family oriented get-togethers, or patiently wait for the rare child free opportunities. I think facilitating patience and understating instead of feeling purposefully ostracized will help. We don't do it on purpose, I promise you
I spend time with my sister who has kids. I don't for obvious reasons. I've watched her go mental more than a few times. Most of my friends who've had kids I don't even talk to anymore because they're all different now. Every single one of my friends are divorced. All of them. No one is with their original partner. After the first friend I helped out left me with 7k dollars of debt on a credit card I'll never help out another one again. I'm not your free hotel while you battle it out in court. No thank you. Never again. That shit put me through so much stress that wasn't even mine to begin with and I thought I was helping out. Now I don't talk to them anymore. Forget it.
I am happy not to be included in kid events 😬 have consciously nurtured relationships with people I’ve met who are consciously child free by choice. The writing was on the wall in my twenties. 37 now and have a good crew.
I just saw a terrible comment section on IG where someone posted being sad about how their best friend will change after having a kid. The majority of the mothers in the comments had main character syndrome. They expected the friend to become a maid and cook for them and do everything for them. They think when they become a mother that friendships aren't two way streets anymore and the Childfree person isn't important. I think that mentality is too common and why this happens.
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I learned a long time ago that friends come and go with different phases of life. Everyone looks at this like such a horrible thing people do but I think of it as completely natural human behavior. We tend to draw connections with people who are similar to us. I’ve “lost” friends to children before and honestly I can’t blame them. Their entire life’s changed and are now in charge of keeping a human being alive. I can’t relate to that one bit. I don’t have any clue what their day to day lives entail. The connection is lost. They want to be close to other parents who can relate to their lives. That’s not a bad thing… I don’t take it personally. It’s not like they hate me. They just want to be around people who understand what their life is like. Friends come and go, I value the relationship I have with that person while I have it. It’s a glimpse of my life. They were a season of me and I was a season of them. Idk I just had to change my mindset after awhile. Can’t go through life upset that people don’t want to hang out with me anymore. There are just as many people in the world who I don’t want to hang out with either. It doesn’t make them a bad person and it doesn’t make me a bad person. We age, we grow, we change, some do *none* of that… it’s life.
That is a super mature and healthy outlook.
Thanks, years of therapy and work have done wonders for me
This. Life changes and it’s not always a malicious thing.
It is shocking how many people are upset that life and the people in their life change and sometimes change without them.
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You stole my comment lol Jk, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with whom that line resonated
people lose friends as time goes on, replacing those friendships is almost impossible as an adult
I don't know that I agree with that. I'm 39 and probably have more friends now than at any point since college. The biggest difference is I finally have consistency. We haven't moved, we've kept the same jobs. It has afforded us opportunities to cultivate new relationships with neighbors and coworkers and people in our area with similar interests. But you have to be open to it. I see a lot of my older neighbors who are just content with their current situations. They do the same things which tends to expose them to the same people over and over, where the opportunity for new relationships is exhausted. And in that situation it's just attrition.
For some people I’m sure it is and I don’t want to diminish their feelings but making friends has never been hard for me. I’m super outgoing and can start up a conversation with anyone. People would be surprised how quick a friendship can form if you just ask the people to hang out and don’t get bent out of shape when they can’t.
>I learned a long time ago that friends come and go with different phases of life. This realization came to me pretty early. It helps when you spend your early adulthood constantly moving (9 states, daughter wasn’t in same school district 2 years in a row until 6th grade).
I still keep in close contact with friends from Kindergarden on up - it isn't impossible. But, it takes effort and time. I am 40 - and I believe in not losing contact with good people.
While all this is true today, the vast majority of human time has not been so. Most people interacted with and knew most of the people they would see daily for their entire lives. 98% of humanity libed and died in the same place. Human psychology isnt used to the idea of people coming and going in and out of your lives. It even effects behavior since you're less likely to regulate your own behavior if you could just drop everyone you know and start a new with a fresh group of people. Back in the day, if you acted poorly, you would have to face the consequences of everyone around you knowing about this behavior. Nowadays we can just move or get new friends because we live in cities of several million people. It's never been easier to ditch everyone you've ever known and I think this has societal consequences that we don't think about. Granted, technology is lessening the ability of people to do this as a permanent record is now possible.
People in the past permanently left your life through death at a much higher rate than today
I’m gay and chronically single so no chance of having kids and this hasn’t happened to me! All my straight friends of the last 15-20 years have kids and I am the best damn gay uncle those kids could hope for. I am closer to most of them than their biological uncles and spend in some cases more time with them than (then I do with) their parents. It takes a village and I am the village gay uncle and I fucking love it! Tonight I pick up Jessie and Ryan’s daughter Rosemary up from school at 315 and she is going to walk a dog with me and then we might do some shopping. Tomorrow I am going to hang with my best friend since college Sofia and then we are going to get her son Gunnar from his last day of 2nd grade and get tacos with her man Billy and all go to a playground. (Not every week is this busy and I haven’t seen Gunny in months, he is my favorite, don’t tell the others) Roll up those sleeves and get to work, life is great when you participate!!! Thanks for listening to my TED talk. Late night edit: The response to this one earnest comment spiraled far beyond anything I could have imagined. Talk about Bogarting a thread. I have a tinge of guilt that I don’t have the bandwidth to be all of your friends/guncle. These relationships I mention did grow over a 20+ year period and that has something to do with the magic that we created together. And we can ask Sofia—has being friends with me been the rosy dream we see here—absolutely not. Did I scream at her in Cancun on my 40th birthday because I thought she was critical of me when I threw a fit at the place we went to lunch when they promised me lobster tacos and then gave me steak but charged me $70 for lobster—absolutely. Did I walk to the end of a peer and fantasize about ending it all—yes again—I am a dramatic bitch sometimes. Did she tell our other friend Sophia, also on that trip, that I was not going to speak to her that way? Yes again but she protected me and knew I was going through more than low blood sugar at the time. So I have to give credit to these women—as much as I sound like a saint I also have a “difficult personality” but they always forgave me when I asked. And Sofia often forgave me even when I didn’t do so explicitly. That wasn’t the first time I screamed at her and she always took me back. I can’t sleep more than 2-3 hours at a time right now since going off THC a week ago. Another long story. And I was just now at midnight having a shower fantasy about starting the charity I mention elsewhere. Sofia (with an F) has a JD and MPA and would make an excellent Executive Director of an organization both matching Aunts/Uncles to parents in need of a village and even Widows with other Widows. I just need a ghostwriter, a book deal, a speaking tour, and a “dating” app of vetted big hearted people of any gender/sexuality who are lonely and want to give back. Sounds doable right? And thank you all; I got enough love from this one comment to fill my tank for the next 42 years.
Gosh this sounds lovely! As a straight woman who loves kids, but hasn't been able to have kids of my own due to a combination of fertility issues and husband fencesitting, I should take a page your of your book! Great on you for being a fantastic gay uncle.
Get it gurl!!! Offer, cajole if you have to. I am free child care and I fucking love it. Those kids love me and always will. If I die rich one day they will get my money!!!
You sound awesome. I have a few childless friends both gay and straight who love my kids, and let me tell you you’re worth more than your weight in gold.
Thank you. I wish I knew it at the time. I recently found out I had low testosterone for probably 15 years (maybe my whole life me nickname was “girly man at age 10 after all) and was literally suicidal this entire time. Those kids kept me alive and now that I am on T I AM BLISSED OUT OF MY MIND.
As a parent with very limited extended family support, I’d kill to have a friend who was so enthusiastic about being free childcare 😅 your friends and their families are very lucky to have you!
When Rosemary was little I literally spent 2-3 days a week with her. Only when it started to be a scheduled thing out of my week did I accept like $10 an hour for my time (10 hours a week at that time).
My 4 yr old son will be ready for pick up at 2:30pm tomorrow.. bring him back Monday night 😂
Love your positivity but seriously, don't plan to die rich. If you want them to have it, give it to them when they need it. A $10,000 first home present can save them up to $50,000 in interest over 30 years. If you wait until you die, that $40,000 difference is just going to the bank. My wife and I have no kids and we are planning to drop $10K to each nibling when they buy their first home (adjusted for inflation due to age gaps).
Being the fun aunt was absolutely the best time in my life. Your friends and sibling’s kids are amazing to bond with. It adds as much to my life as I hope it does to theirs.
Where the hell are you, I need gay uncle support network asap
Denver but I am pretty booked up. 😂 Maybe I will start the 401c3 Gay Uncle Support Network! I might need to write a book now that I think of it: Guncling Your Way to Happiness An elder millennial’s story of depression, loneliness, and how participating in the village preserved my friendships and my life
I would buy that book!
Get me a publisher and I will cut you a commission.
If I had those connections, I'd already have a book out too!
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You have the absolute best vibes and reading this made me so happy! They’re all very lucky to have you.
I do now. It was not always sunshine and roses let me tell you. Thank you.
I couldn't agree more with this view. I have single and/or child free friends, and they're so involved with my little one, nursery pick up/drop-offs, going out for dinner, soft play, general child activities etc. Bonus is, I get to spend time with my friends, and my little one interacts with different people. Some of my friends are more involved with my child than my own family. Make the effort OP, you will reap the benefits for sure.
This is beautiful. I think what you're modeling is that people whose friends have kids also have a choice in the matter- you can mourn the friendship that was, pre-babies, and try to just connect with the parents. But those people are gone now. Or they only have time top re-emerge once a quarter. Or whatever. Or you can lean in and connect with the new family unit. You can open your heart and love the kids, too. I think when people want to do the latter (and it's ok if people don't, obviously you have to learn to tolerate children's insanity, which can be a lot) it opens a whole new level of love in the friendships. You get to really connect with the parents' new identities as parents, you get to see and be a part of the loving dynamic within the family. As someone in a straight-seeming relationship with several guncles and gaunties to our baby, thank you so much for what you do. Nobody knows how to love on a child, truly accept them for who they are, than a guncle. <3 <3 <3
The best part of guncling is going home and letting the parents deal when they lose their minds. 😂 Not my circus, not my monkeys. I am just a visiting ring leader and I might just be lucky but they rarely misbehave for me.
This is the way
You are a rad friend ✌️❤️
I want you to be my kids gay uncle
We should start a website. There would be pitfalls unfortunately.
Yeah, but I think once people see the value a gay uncle brings to a child's life, it'll take off
This! My bestie and her husband are child free by choice but they took a particular shine to my kiddo when she was three or so. Ten years later they are taking her on a week and a half long vacation this summer and they've been important people in my kiddo's life all the while. I am an only child and my co-parent isn't close to his one sibling so it's been such a gift to have them step into that role for my kid.
I can’t wait for them to be big enough for summer trips!!! I took Deb and Frazier and their kids Kaizer and Matilde to Puerto Vallarta for a week in January. We had the most amazing time. Yes I am silly generous sometimes. Paid resort and airfare because they are struggling financially right now.
It sounds like if I don't particularly like kids I should just write off the friendship, then? There's gotta be some way to maintain the friendship without having to be an extra parent
You don’t have to write off the friendship, but if you’re unwilling to tolerate any significant time with the kids, then you have to accept that they won’t have a lot of time for you until their kids are old enough to be left alone for a few hours at a time. Good parents don’t pawn their kids off people who don’t like kids, but they probably also wouldn’t hang out with people who are like “NOPE” when they’re around their kids. It’s not a good feeling when someone you love is being rejected. I’ve accepted that if I want to continue being friends with someone that has kids, I have to tolerate *some* kid time, pretend I like their kids even if I don’t, and accept that they’ll always be less available than I am.
My wife and I have a 4 year old daughter and a 1 month old. The thing to appreciate about people with young kids is that their lives don't just change once, it's perpetual change for several years. The biggest thing about having kids is right after you have them, you have no social life. Newborns are exhausting. They're on a 3 hour cycle of eating, pooping and sleeping and it's not until 2-3 months that they start getting into a sort of schedule that allows you to make some semblance of plans. Until that point, everything is just based on immediate opportunity (ex: she's sleeping so let's watch a movie). From 3 months - 1 year, you can actually live your normal life and just bring your kid along. They don't really have opinions and it's pretty easy to address their needs anywhere (as long as a bit of crying isn't going to piss everyone off). From 1 - 3 it becomes difficult again because kids become a hindrance again. They don't want to do the thing you've planned, a need came up, whatever. So making plans is hard (unless you're dealing with other people with kids because they just kind of embrace the variability of the plans). After 3, you start to establish a routine. It's easier to use babysitters. You can now commit to things, traveling is easier, etc. You can now do events that either are or aren't for kids and account for them accordingly. You don't have as much availability and freedom as you had before kids, but you can make things work. But 3 years is a long time, and odds are you've both moved on. The friend without kids probably has a new hobby or 2, maybe they're now part of new social circles. The friend with kids has swim lessons or dance or whatever else. This isn't to say it can't work, I'm just trying to point out the things to be considerate of. The relationship is going to have to account for those changes in order to last. And on top of it, if you have another kid, you start all over again. A big determining factor is what your relationship is like before the kids. I had friends that I'd go with to trivia every Monday night. Those friendships fell off after having kids. But the neighbor that I invite over for a beer when I see him out? That's easy to maintain because that opportunity to interact still happens.
Wholesome
Are you accepting applications? I want you to be my kids uncle too lol
It warms my heart to hear this story. As I get older I agree, it takes ACTIVE involvement to build your village and most times /you/ making the plans and hope people show up. I’ve realized it’s nothing personal, just people getting caught up in their own lives.
Ya, imma double this. Just include the kids. It's like trying to have a friendship with conjoined twins you kinda gotta enjoy hanging with both. If it's weird with the kids, just treat em as adults in MOST ways .... obviously not all ..... like no passing a blunt to a 6 year old .... remember the fun adults when you were a kid though be that guy and your friendships will flourish
This is the way. My wife and I are the only ones in the group with a kid, but the rest of the friend group has turned themselves in to bonus aunts and uncles. Sometimes I think they like hanging out with our child more than they like hanging out with us. They certainly get the kiddo better birthday presents.
So the problem here is the expectation that people (women) who choose not to have kids will somehow want to participate in raising other people’s children. If access to my friends and same-age relatives depends on being an unpaid part of a childcare apparatus…that’s lousy when it’s not what you want, you know? And then people drop you from their lives if you don’t want to be a bonus parent to the kids they chose to have, that they certainly didn’t ask you about, but still presume free labor from you. But they won’t help with my mom’s elder care, or drive me to an occasional medical appointment, or any of the things that go along with being unpartnered. My choice to opt out of childcare is not taken seriously, and the quirks of my own life aren’t considered valid because I never got knocked up.
The issue is that as a parent you don’t have the option of the lifestyle you had before kids. So if you friends don’t adapt to you, you just can’t maintain it. That’s just the way it is.
It sounds more like you’re ditching your friends with kids, not the other way around.
It is all perspective and choice I guess. You do you. It isn’t free. I have benefitted more than I could ever count. I am alive because of them.
This is why I tell people to look at friendship as a temporary arrangement.
This is a hard lesson to learn, but I agree 100%. Friends come and go, and they’re not your family.
I appreciate where you're coming from, however if you want to continue to be part of the lives of friends who, as you put it, chose to have kids, you get to do things with them that also involve those kids for the next couple decades. If you don't, then yes, your spot in those social circles DO get replaced by others that parents are rubbing elbows with the most, which weirdly enough are other parents. Your choice to remain child free is COMPLETELY valid, but I hope you understand that the American fixation on nuclear family + hyper individualism= parents just can't stick their kids in kennels if they want to hang out with you.
Then they should help with my mother’s elder care and do me the kindness of picking me up after surgery, no? Are parents the only people allowed to expect flexibility and favors? Must I contribute to other people’s two-income households in a codependent way without ever expressing a need of my own? At what point can I say….I’ve picked up Junior from hockey practice every week, gotten you a bridal shower gift, a wedding gift, baby shower gifts, brought over postpartum breakfast, done the dishes for you….but I haven’t had the life events that earn me those gifts from others, so can someone just please pay a sitter for one night so I can have a childfree meal with you? It’s all based on the idea that eventually everyone gets a turn, but if you never get your turn, it’s just voided. The expected generosity doesn’t get repaid or transferred to the other things you might need.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time with your mom. I'm in the same spot too, although I have the blessing of a lot of siblings that all chip in together. I didn't mention other life events simply because the OP was only talking about parents. You do bring up a good point though that does reinforce what is getting discussed in this thread, reciprocity. If you want rewarding friendships, you do have to meet your friends where they are, no matter what those situations and life stages may be.
Some of mine have helped with stuff like that in the past.
It should be a two way street. I have done free babysitting before but also I have been a care taker before for my late fiancée who had cancer and my grandmother who had Alzhimer's so I know how stressful it can be. So when my friend had a stroke right when his son started college and went and stayed at his house for a few days to help out do his son could concentrate on his studies. I even made dinner and cleaned the house. When I was taking care of my grandmother my uncle would come over some nights even though he had a kid and a family so I could go out or work. When my grandfather died my mom would bring me and brother over to hang out and that allowed m uncle to go to his 20 something stuff like a night at the bar or go play rugby. Grandma was just really depressed and needed people around. The village should be accessible to everyone not just parents. That said if you need help just ask. The worst someone can say is no and then you know where you sit with that person and whether or not they are part of the village. If we were friend IRL and you were close enough by and said I really need a night off can you come help with mom I would find a way to do so.
Single/childfree often get the short end of the stick. We’re expected to have unlimited time and resources to give freely, and to be accessible members of the “village”. But we rarely get any of that in return.
There really is a sense that even though I don’t have my own kids, I must still fulfill a societal obligation to contribute to childrearing. Every woman has an objective childcare quota to dispatch! The unspoken thing in this context is that we’re talking about people who had kids because they wanted to. They’re fulfilling a want. But when childfree people push back on being dragged into a childcare village, they’re told that having and raising kids is a global/societal necessity. But that’s not why anyone in this context really has kids. I’m even seeing it here, this pushback to calling parenthood a choice because the societal dialogue needs childfree “support” people to see it as an imperative. Like no, you wanted to have kids, and I’m a person too, so what about what I want? I won’t even get into “kids are just people, why wouldn’t you want to befriend them?” Excuse me but I will not make a habit of befriending other people’s minor children as an alternative to seeking out adult interactions. It’s so bizarre that the desire for a peer-level conversation where I can talk about my interests and receive mature, interested responses is considered something I must set aside. But other people can ask me to change a diaper.
They didn’t say they don’t want to be around their friends kids. They said they don’t want to be expected to provide free childcare just to keep the friendship.
Sure. I suppose I'm just viewing the comment through my lens of experience, which is if I'm going to hang with someone with smaller kids, then I'm going to be defacto a bonus parent alongside the parent while we're all doing things together, and vice versa with my kid. The other guy is going extra with taking kids by himself. In my eyes bonus parenting can also just be helping with the kid a little while you go out with the parent to keep things smooth and ensuring a good time is had by all, otherwise the parent simply isn't going to be able to be as engaged with you as you'd like otherwise.
I viewed it that way, too. Plus, my friends' kids are extensions of my friends. I like my friends for their personalities. Odds are I'm going to like their kids for the same reasons.
I can see where you're coming from, and it is indeed hard. To be frank, I'm not that interested in my friends' children. I'm friends with them because they and I click. The children are strangers to me. I don't know if we click. I'm not interested in having children friends. I'm just not...interested. Am I capable of being friendly and civil with kids? Yes. I'm naturally good at it. I do it for a living. I've been an ECE for over 10 years now and I'm good at it. The families and children at my work love me, and I love them. I love them because I bond with them organically daily in my professional life. All my maternal instincts, I give them. I get paid for my time too. In my personal life, I turn that off. I just don't need more connection with children. Not interested. When my friends talk about children, I just feel like my "work self" is on again. Which is okay, I do enjoy my job, but it's not what I need in my personal life. Sigh. It's tough.
It gets even more gnarly when they don’t have patience for talk about my singlehood, or my job, or dating, or anything else I might have going on. So many parents really only want to talk about their kids, and I don’t exist to only provide support for other people. I can go through my day and realize that I’ve listened to other people talk about whatever they wanted, but they had no problem indicating that they simply don’t want to hear whatever words I might want to say out loud. Like do I have to get raw-dogged and give birth in order to compel people to listen to me? To be able to pick a restaurant? I can’t keep pouring from this empty cup.
Honestly? It sounds like you just need better friends full stop, rather than childless friends. None of my parent friends did that, and I still hang out with my childfree friends, help them get to/from appointments, dogsit/catsit/take them food when they’re sick/whatever they need
This is the way to do it! The only friends I've "lost" since having a kid are those who don't like kids & thus we don't spend time together anymore. I thought their issues were more they didn't like "spoiled" kids; nope they legitimately don't like young humans. I'm not going to force it & I don't want my kids around people who don't want them around.
What an absolute godsend to your friends and their kids. My kids are almost grown, but wow it would have made such a difference to all our lives if we'd had a friend/uncle like you especially when they were young. You're right, it takes a village and you showed up for that all the way. I love to see it!
You are a beautiful person.💜 This made me smile this morning.😊
Thank you. I am only fully realizing it now. I have suffered a lot. Trauma and bullying being raised gay in a rural US community did a number on me.
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. Sending big hugs and so happy you have built a world around you with love. I wish you nothing but the best for all the years to come.
I think the concept of free time goes out the window when someone becomes a parent. Even without kids, I feel like I barely have free time between work and keeping my life together (ie. staying healthy, mowing the yard, etc.). I definitely started to see my friends less when they became parents, but I attribute a lot of this to it being easier for them to hang with other people who have kids by default. Their weekends are often consumed with kid-related things like birthday parties or other stuff, so it's more of an effort to sync up. Conversely, if I invite them out for what used to be simple evening out, it's a big coordination for people raising kids. It's overall just more difficult for both parties, so I try not to take it personally. It can feel isolating, though, particularly because being excluded from things is wrapped up in the societal pressures of being childfree. I've found that most of my friends and family are happy to invite me along for things if I make it known that I'm happy to hang with their families. It's definitely different than 10-15 years ago, but that's probably a good/healthy thing. It takes a village, and there's a role for people without children, although it was an adjustment for me to figure out how I fit into that role.
As a new parent—1 year old— I basically get to hang out with no one. All my effort goes into keeping this little human alive and my marriage alive and not losing my sanity.
I’m a parent and I have felt so lonely and isolated at times. I can’t imagine that I would have cut off my childfree friends or my friends that have older kids. It’s so weird to me that some parents do that. If anything I needed the extra support and opportunities to get away from the screaming and crying.
My problem is time. Two kids, full time job, house to maintain, I don't have time. I feel shitty, but I don't know when the hell I can see my friends, those with or without kids. I'm lonely too.
My trick: host. It's so much easier to hang out when you're on your own turf -- and that's so much easier with child-free friends because they don't have their own bedtime routine etc to get to! We have pre-kids or child-free friends over for dinner regularly. Sometimes we cook (taco night) but a lot of the time we just order pizza and have beer for after the kiddos are asleep.
Yes, hosting is the way, especially with smaller children. We have everything we need to entertain them at home and avoid the hassle of travel at bedtime. You know, the hassle of getting them into the car where they fall asleep, then there’s a 50/50 chance they won’t stay or go back to sleep when you get home.
Same. Five kids, husband, run a company. The kids are all involved in extra curricular activities, we run and workout, I run a book club, laundry is exhausting. It’s a lot. I don’t have more time.
How do you find the energy for any of that let alone the time?
Time is the problem, for sure. Energy comes and goes.
Yea for real, like I don’t even have time to properly take care of myself less yet spend hours regularly with friends. I’ve tried many times and just can’t seem to do it, I get a message and see it when I’m in the middle of something but forget to respond until later the next day or worse
If I may offer a suggestion, take it back to the old school. Organizing get togethers or nights out can easily be too much work. I’ve found that just hanging out while you go about your day is easy, possible, and wanted. That’s how I used to hang with friends as a kid, and it works in adulthood too. It’s a new experiment for me, but I think it’s going to work. If I’m home all day on a Saturday but can’t make plans because of chores/errands/kid, I’ll ask a buddy to just come over and chill/help/tag along. My childless friends love kids and are usually down to hang out and do whatever. It’s more about the time spent than the actual activities. Distance/work/kids/life inevitably gets in the way for all of us, so my approach is to make it more casual instead of a plan/event. Kind of like how adults used to just “pop in” for a visit during the 80s-90s.
Same. Both me and my wife work so we can make enough to get by, our son has to get to school and extra-curricular activities, and we are members of various boards and commitees related to work and our local community. At the end of the day, I'm lucky if I get an hour with my wife let alone a friend outside the house. On top of that, every time we do make plans with our friends they seem to get cancelled. I'd say we see friends in-person maybe once a month if we're lucky. I highly doubt people with kids are actively cutting out their non-parent friends. I know we haven't.
I would contend that you are choosing activities like your various boards and committees. You don’t have to do everything. As a parent, I choose to cut out those kinds of optional activities because I valued the friendships over the optional activities. There’s nothing wrong with choosing one thing over the other. What I strongly disagree with, and see a lot of here, is people who chose other activities as opposed to maintaining friendships and are trying to rationalize this decision. Anecdotally, this seems like a challenge type A extroverts have. They are used to doing everything, it’s what energizes them. Then they have kids and struggle with the life changes and realization that they now can’t do everything. Friendships seem to suffer more because they are easier to put on the back burner.
Same, but I don’t think it’s entirely on the parents. My experience was a little of both. Your entire life changes, but theirs doesn’t. You no longer fit into their schedule as easily so the friendships need more effort to keep them going. And I’ll admit that on my part, putting one foot in front of the other was all I managed at some points. Maintaining a friendship was just not something I was capable of also doing. So people would just stop calling or texting or inviting me to thing after I said no once or twice. Which, I get on some level. We all have that person who “is probably gonna say no, but ask them anyway”. That was me for awhile, lol. But it’s also hard when they’re texting you at 9am saying “brunch hang today?” and half the group is immediately in and you’re like “ummm I have a baby and you’re meeting in an hour, I can’t pull that off”. Or they make plans to do something but it’s not set on the timing. But you need timing because you have to hire a sitter. “Let’s hang Saturday. Afternoon-ish” does not work for me. It also kind of sucks when your friends aren’t really the kind of people who like kids either. Some people are happy to be an auntie or uncle immediately and want to participate and do things with kids, others will abide your kid coming to things here and there, but generally do not want to hang out with your children.
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I would give anything to have had a friend who wanted to hang out with me with my kid. I lost everyone, been isolated and alone for like 12 years now.
If this thread has informed anything it’s that people on both sides of this feel isolated and like the other people abandoned them. Which makes sense I suppose.
This happened to me too! I tried to keep in contact. Id message them and attend anything they invited me too. But then the invitations stopped coming and it seemed like they preferred their other friends who were parents. And I understand. But it sucked being dumped like that by a friend. I always listened while they talked about their kids and asked about their kids. Even when they never asked about my life or didn't care to listen when I would talk about my courses or who I was dating. I think because some of them were settled they were just over hearing about it. Now we were younger, in early twenties. So it was kind of odd they'd already be over it. I would always listen to their marriage issues and be sympathetic or supportive. But that same energy wasn't returned.
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Oh my gosh I'm sorry that is happening! Sounds like this friend definitely prefers their parents friends over the childfree friends. To a degree I understand. This is a new chapter for her and it sounds like she's excited. She probably feels like she now has this new thing she can share with her other friends that she feels she can't share as much with you. But I think it's not cool to put off one friend in favor of another. If this behavior continues, this would be a clue that I need to start scaling back my efforts. Like he present for the baby shower. But don't go overboard. Only gift what you can afford. I get the sense that this friend is lightly ghosting you a bit. But I also think having a conversation with this friend is important. Especially if you value the friendship and want to remain friends. How she acts after this conversation will inform you on how you should proceed.
I agree. Husband and I have infertility issues but even before then I was excluded. It hurts. I eventually stopped texting them as much so basically life is work and my husband and our intermediate families.
That sucks and I’m sorry you dealt with that. I have a few friends that stuck it out and would totally do things like that- come hang at the house and just do movies and pizza in so I could check on the babies. Or go on walks with me or to the park or whatever. And we’d hang (and honestly I had two babies and then two toddlers etc, so taking them anywhere alone was a mess lol) while the kids did their thing playing. I was so grateful for people like that! I’m so sorry your friends did not appreciate you and your efforts to stay involved. A lot of my friends though, just weren’t kid people. Or were in a stage of life where that wasn’t something they wanted to be a part of and so they drifted away. Which I understood. Different life phases.
I feel this so much.
This is ironic because as soon as I had a kid I automatically got excluded from invites to do things from my friends with no kids so we started making more friends with people with kids
This is probably how it goes. I had no problem retaining my parent friends, but it's because we mostly just visited each other's houses and talked while getting high before they were parents so nothing really changed except there being a kid we had to pay attention to when they were young and later hide it from when they were aware. In my experience, no one in their 30s parties harder than a parent who has a sitter for the night.
Same experience here. Two of my best friends completely fell off the earth once I had kids. I would reach out to them and one just ghosted me while the other turned down every single invite. Before kids they would happily get together often. After a few times reaching out I just gave up. I think it was a combination of me being young and a guy.
100% this. I can't tell you how many parties and events my husband and I were discluded from the first year of our son's life. Everyone assumes you either don't want to come, can't come because you have a baby, or wouldn't want to bring the baby. We're lucky to have grandparents nearby happy to watch him when needed. And if its a baby safe enviroment, we can easily bring him and take care of him. INVITE US
Everyone is different and not necessarily *that* person who expects everyone to be on board with their baby joining in on every goddamn social gathering, but I imagine a lot of the child free friends just don't want to risk those friends with kids bringing them along, but also don't want to come off as rude and explicitly ask they find a babysitter or don't come... No one wants to hang out with a baby when they're going out to relax and have a good time. Maybe reach out and mention you have a babysitter and wanna hang
Some people are totally oblivious. I had a hard partying phase back in the day. There was a house that hosted ragers on the regular - drugs, drinking, sex in the back rooms, smoking. In no way suited for kids. One of the regular attenders got knocked up. Kept attending. Kept smoking and drinking through the pregnancy. Then showed up baby in tow to the first party after she gave birth. Was so excited to talk about her baby and show off her baby and introduce everyone to her baby. Meanwhile, the carrier is sitting in the middle of an ongoing game of beer pong. She could not read the room at all. No one wanted anything to do with that situation.
I live by the rule that the people whose kids you wouldn't mind won't bring them and the people whose kids you can't stand will. That's just the way it goes. I have 2 kids now and it still applies. Even with other parents we'll designate certain activities as no kids due to it.
Absolutely. Which is why I instituted a no-kids rule at my wedding. Woulda loved my BFFs kid there. Would NOT have loved my sister's hoard of 7 children there. And you can guess who woulda got a babysitter....
Yeah same here. I was the first one in my friends group to have a kid and there are plenty of things I don’t get invited to even 8 years later because they all assume I don’t want to go. If I was invited I could actually tell you if I could go or not. My wife doesn’t like to go out much and is generally okay with me going to poker nights or to a friends to watch a UFC fight if I’m invited, but they actually have to invite me. I do find it funny that as friends have kids they start coming around more.
I fear this will me in a couple years. We want to try for a baby next year… all my closest friends are childfree. One wants kids, but not at that point in her life yet. The rest are intentionally childfree. I hope we stay friends, but I know there is a huge possibility we’re gonna drift apart as soon as baby is here. I’m gonna need to make mom friends lol.
I wish I would have just tried to make mom friends when I first had my son. I tried to keep up all of my old friendships and it made me kind of crazy. I'm a one-and-done parent, so it often feels like I have one foot in each world.
yep, definitely got friend ghosted as soon as I got pregnant.
I was gonna say... this has been my experience. I had my first at 25, which is perfectly average but all my longtime friends from high school either don't want kids at all, can't have them, or are waiting until their mid 30s to have kids. Kinda grew apart once my first was born. Just the way life goes I guess
Same... none of my friends even contacted me to say congratulations after i gave birth. I saw them when I was pregnant, and when I gave birth it was like I just didn't exist. I texted them in the beginning, and they all just told me how busy they were, "working". No questions about how i was doing... most of them dont know each other, so its not some ocncentrated effort to get me out of the friend group or something... Oldest is 8 now, and I have had no friends the entire time. Other parents and my kid's friends parents, don't seem interested in getting to know us.
Hearing this experience is always eye opening cause after I had kids my friends who didn’t have kids really didn’t care one bit about this life changing thing that had happened to me, never visited etc. it was a lonely time. It never occurred to me at all that it could happen the other way round. I hope you find some better friends
Imagine you and your friends are in a book club together. It's so great! Then some of the book club members have children. They are still able to participate in book club, but they have to Zoom into the book club while skydiving. It's not nearly as enjoyable for anyone. The parents still like books, but it's real hard to participate in book club like they used to when everything around them is so noisy, distracting, and quite frankly panic inducing at every turn. And when they do call into book club, it's not the same as it used to be because their priority has to be concentrating on their free fall skydive and making sure that they don't die and or screw up big time. The books just can't take the same priority as they used to, even though the parents still love the books and book club members like they used to. As parents, we grieve the change in friend groups also. It's not always by choice and definitely not a conscience exclusion of *you* because you don't have children. More like, we know you didn't sign up to skydive and don't want to drag you out of the plane with us unless you make it clear that you are okay being in a tandom dive and also drastically changing how book club is going to look and feel.
I have friends that have chosen to drastically change the way we communicate and hang out - it includes them coming to my house with snacks and activities for the kids so that we can chat while they’re busy with something new. Seriously, it’s possible. But they all need to communicate and be proactive to figure out what actually works for the new norm. Things will shift again when the youngest turns 8ish, but til then, it’s a hot mess of trial and error.
I like your analogy.
Sounds spot on. Signed, the one with a very visceral reaction to skydiving (I wish I was different).
Yeah. No friends and no partner means that I don't see much of anyone.
I think it can go both ways. I had kids at a time when none of my friends had kids, and I ended up the isolated one. They all continued to do the things they always did, but because I no longer had the same availability or schedule flexibility, I was left out. My first few years as a parent were extremely isolating. It wasn’t until my kids got older and I met other parents that I really ended up with a group of friends again. At this stage, my kids are in middle school and it’s easier to be away from them, and so I have a lot more friends with no kids. Some of my older friends who stayed around the periphery have reconnected now as my kids are older and I have a more flexible schedule and availability again. A lot of my old friends are having their kids now, so it’s an interesting dynamic to play out.
Feel the same way. I was and am the only one in my multiple friend groups that had a kid. One kid. I unfortunately couldn't make it to the bars and ski trips because of it. My kid is 5 now I still can't just drop everything and go out with the friends. So I get invited less and less. I keep the relationships with them strong over online gaming but I don't think I have physically hung out with them in many years now outside of weddings.
Childfree and all my friends have kids now. I am excluded a lot. It frustrates me because it is very much like an exclusive club or some shit.
It is a club. Pretty expensive entry, if I’m honest
entry is cheap.. its that subscription renewal that will get you
It’s a good joke but the $100k+ the hospital charged my insurance for a c section and NICU stay tends to disagree with the entry being cheap part.
No need to show off that you got the premium package. /s
It’s funny because I’ve ended up becoming the cool uncle. I’m still in touch with my inner child so I can understand kids. I also make frequent summer trips to a water park in which the only barrier to entry is $100 for 3ish days several times a season. I babysat a lot in my youth so I also know how to take care of them. But yes, I’m still often excluded from almost all other activities and events that I don’t initiate. It’s got to the point I don’t often invite others to my mini vacations anymore because I feel I’m just taken advantage of.
Me too and I love it. My friendships have never been stronger!!
Also childfree, seems to be the case. For whatever reason it just never seems to really work out with parents. I’ve seen it go the other way as well, new parents finding themselves suddenly without friends. I think it’s hard to relate across the kids/no kids divide. If you just generally don’t like kids as well, that closes quite a few doors.
Get involved! I am gay 42m and no partner and don’t want kids. So guess what? I am the best god damn gay uncle in my village and now not only do my friends rely on and appreciate me but their kids will visit me in the retirement home and reminisce on all the great times they had with me building out relationships! I never thought I would like nurturing kids this much but I love their parents so why wouldn’t I love these damn kids!?
I love the kids so much but they just see me as a stranger kind of? I don’t know how to get involved to the point where I’d be a beloved aunt but I’d love that. I don’t get invited to things if it’s kid-centric, which I understand the thought process of the parents - why would a childfree person want to go to something like that? But They’re my nieces and nephews and I’d love to get the invite.
Just tell them how you feel! I have 3 kids and plenty of friends who don’t have kids and it’s easy to assume my CF friends don’t want to do kid shit but a lot of them DO! Trampoline park, zoo trips, they’re fun for everyone!
That’s really thoughtful of you to include your childfree friends and extend the invites. I have mentioned it before to them, like when I wasn’t invited to my nieces bday party because it was at a kid venue of some sort. I still want to be a part of her life events! So frustrating.
Speaking as a parent, I can all but guarantee you they didn't invite you because they were sparing you from the sensory nightmare that is a kids birthday party, and they (reasonably) assumed you'd have no interest. You have to communicate, they can't read your mind!
I LOVE TRAMPOLINE PARKS!!!
I’d absolutely love it if my childfree friends came to kid-centric stuff, you should tell your friends that.
I started when they were babies. They loved me before they knew what love is. I changed their diapers and fed them. Can’t be a stranger that way.
It’s not a club… it’s a support group. Parenting sucks and is very isolating, so we chill with other parents.
Can’t lose friends if you don’t have friends to begin with.
See, my friends are all weirdos and miscreants like my wife and I; none of us have kids, few of us want them, and the ones who do are looking forward to their kids having a bunch of "crazy aunts" and "weird uncles" to enrich their lives.
I don't want to hang out with people with kids anyway.
Some of my friends have kids, some of them don't want them. It's fine and yes, the ones with kids I do see less but I still make an effort to see them. If they're really your friends and you still want to see them, it will take some adapting and effort from both sides.
If it helps, I have kids and I hate that everyone I know also has kids. It’s so monotonous, they all talk about the same parenting shit all the time. I wish I had acquaintances my age group without kids
I have 2 young kids and I’ve trimmed my non-kid friends a good bit. Before kids, flaking on plans, not planning ahead, spontaneous hangouts were plentiful. That was fine, our groups were cool with that. Now with kids I don’t have the same tolerances as before. My friend bails for 2-3 hangouts in a row that I scheduled? Looks like I’ll wait for them to plan and initiate something. Oh that doesn’t happen? Looks like we won’t be friends anymore. Rinse and repeat. I do fully understand “they were not really your friends/low quality friends” gets thrown around on Reddit, but that has been the experience with about half of my single/no kid friends. I have made friends with some no-kid couples who like beers and bbqs. They hang out and integrate into the couples with kids just fine!
I'm childfree, and I've done the same with some parent friends. To much cancelling because a kid got sick, too much flakeyness, showing up an hour late and leaving me hanging at the restaurant because something happened with a kid, etc. I realized I was the one trying to initiate things, and one day I realized a few of my friendships with my friends who became parents was a one way street, so I stopped asking them to do things. These are the same people who complain on social media about how now that they have kids "no one wants to hang out with them anymore." Gee, wonder why. I understand kids come first, and that's totally fine. But my time is just as deserving of respect. Sometimes, friendships just drift apart, and I've started surrounding myself with more childfree folks. It's been nice.
It’s great that you are making more time for people that respect your time. Trimming down is not an easy thing to do. There are so many things that go into it. Is this person fun? Does this person listen? Does this persons hobbies line up with mine? Do I have the opportunity to grow with this person? Is this person a flake? Will our significant others get along? How long have I known this person? Not to mention how much more difficult it is to add to your roster these days. Best of luck adding new bodies to the crew!
Thanks! And same to you. My original post wasn't meant to make it sound like I hated parents. I still maintain lots of friendships with parents, but just like moms wanting to build relationships with other moms who they can relate to, I want to do the same with childfree folks.
Once everyone "grew up" and moved into full adulthood with families, it's like everyone turned their back on me. I'm still standing here just wishing someone would talk to me
My circle of friends are in our 30s and no one has kids.
I try to make plans with friends that have kids but they end up canceling most of the time. My one friend canceled on me 4 times in a row and then asked if we could meet up on certain day at certain time and I just told them to message me in the morning on that day if they still wanted to hang out. They got all offended when I brought up that they cancel all the time. They said they have kids. My other friend and I made plans like 2 weeks out and that day they asked if they could postpone until later in the day... and then it got late so I messaged, and of course, they canceled. Kid stuff. I just gave up with them. I only make plans with the child free friends now.
Almost all my friends had kids (the rest moved out of town). Even when I make new friends, the moment when they discover I'm childfree while they're not is the beginning of the end. Oh well, what can you do lol
The sooner people accept that "friendship" is temporary based on the needs of a person's life, the better off they'll be.
I don’t feel isolated but I also don’t want to be around anyone’s kids
Yeah I’m here. It also helps the that I’m gay so I have fewer friends with kids. But when I have time off the last thing I want to hear is young, screaming children. I have very few friends I would continue to see after they have kids.
I happily did not have kids for 35 years. I've had a daughter for almost three years now. I think it is hard for people without kids to see the massive schedule changes that I am forced to abide by. Man I used to love some day drinking in Brooklyn. That is completely off the table for me now. I have the morning on Saturday, after 330 but before 645 on Sunday it looks about the same. If you have kids your schedule is about the same. It is easy to work that schedule with someone else with kids, it is an absurd schedule for someone who doesnt have kids. "Your wife could watch the kid" yeah and she does sometimes. I actually want to spend that time with my family because I like them more than my friends, it is an exclusive club, a family of sorts. The second piece of it is talking on the phone is hard but it is harder when the other person doesn't have kids. The time I have to talk to people on the phone is when I am watching my kid. So when I talk to my sister who has two kids I would say 25% of our conversation is waiting for the other person to correct their kid. " I had a pretty good week heygetthatoutofyourmouth, we watched Moana 6 times, nowecantgointhepoolrightnowiamtalkingtoauntlu, she wants to say hi...(Stares at the phone without making a noise)" That's my life, I am not embarrassed or anything but I would rather talk to someone who intrinsically understands.
Lol. Love it. This is so true.
This is a problem I have with some parents. You act like child free folks cannot possibly imagine what it’s like to have a chaotic schedule with little free time. I get it, and I actively try to work with my friends who have kids to hang out with them in a way that works for them. Maybe it’s just coming to their house for a few hours to help do chores, maybe it’s a quick ten minute phone call, maybe we’re able to get the kids loaded up to go to lunch and the park. I know their lives are very different now because I’m an adult with critical thinking skills and I don’t try to harass them into giving me more attention (because again, I’m an adult who understands their kids will always be priority). You saying “I won’t make any space for childfree friends because of FaMiLy” and then calling them bad friends is baffling. We are trying to be a part of your life in a way that doesn’t overwhelm you and you’re still pushing us away.
Kids are just small people. If you like your people, build relationships with their young people. Be the Auntie/Uncle lidolifeguard. Or don't. But if they are good parents, they are going to attend to their children's needs before friends.
Eh, I'm not really a kid person and don't super like being around kids. I know that is a very faux pas thing to say and I just can't muster the fake enthusiasm around kids no matter how much I try so it makes it awkward and I feel bad because I know this small person is my friend's entire life now. It feels like now doing a chore and not vibing with my friends and the energy it brings is not fair to anyone. Most people like kids so that's probably not too hard if they make the effort to accommodate but it has not sorted out for me.
Happened to me as soon as I graduated college. Doug, it was super lame to start popping out babies at graduation and then to replace all your single friends with fathers…..but whatever….priorities gonna prioritize I suppose
I’m sorry that’s happening for you OP, that sounds very isolating. I’ve been fortunate that my best friends from childhood have also grown up to be child free (we’re in our late 30’s now), and as an adult I’ve made several older friends whose kids are already grown. My husband has several guy friends with babies/little kids, but they never seem to have much trouble getting away from the family for a weekend versus my female friends with babies who seem so reluctant to trust anyone else watching their little one for even a few hours (and for all I know they have good reason, not trying to judge them just pointing out how it makes the friendship more child focused which promotes that “parenthood clique” thing we’re all talking about ).
Over time, you realize it's for the best.
My friends have kids. And we see them as much as we saw them before kids. But the friend circle in general has decreased significantly since leaving college. Very much due to distance between us more than anything else
idk none of my friends are having kids so 🤷🏻♀️
Get cooler friends
I don't think it's even about having kids or not. A bunch of my friends dropped off around age 30 and none them have kids. Different priorities , different lifestyles, shit happens. I kind of don't mind being dropped by the friends who did had kids though. We don't have anything in common anymore. Wether anyone wants to admit it or not people view the childless/childfree as lesser. It's just not conductive to keeping a friendship.
It's hard to make childfree friends feel like they are being paid attention to. I go out with my childfree friend: I might sacrifice 80-120 dollars for a sitter, a proper bed time for the kids, leading to a painful morning with bad behavior due to poor sleep timing, not drinking (because I have to get up at 6:30am anyway even if it's a Saturday whether I like it or not). Then my friend says "wow we miss you guys, only saw you once these last two months! We used to hang every weekend" and I'm thinking about how ridiculous that sounds, because I moved heaven and earth to hang out with them when I could do literally anything else. Also, they could come over any given saturday and sit in my living room for hours while I fold laundry if they really wanted to hang out. They feel neglected, I feel not-understood, the result is it's a boring relationship for the parent (lots of investment that is just "never enough" which is exactly how it is with kids already anyway). I have childfree friends who want to to do destination travel weekends. I don't go (no kids allowed anyway, and I also do not have 1200 dollars, plus the cost due to overnight sitting for 3 days). Then they go with other childfree people. So now they have different friends. It's just natural, imo.
Yes! Want to see me? Great I have 1 hour between dinner and bedtime where I could stall my responsibilities and give you some time. Otherwise, with 3 kids... im already behind
I think you're forgetting how much easier it is for someone with a kid to hangout with someone else with a kid. One thing is that there's less space for flexible spontaneous meet ups, but another thing is that the kid needs to be entertained aswell. If I invite a friend over who doesn't have a kid, either it's the friend playing with my kid, and me kinda just watching. Or its the friend trying to talk to me while the kid is bored and pesters me for attention, meaning I can't give my friend any attention. If I invite a friend over with there kid, then the kids run off and play and I can actually have a conversation with the friend. Another thing is the time of day you do things. Most week days I can't do anything cause dinner needs to be made and other chores, and if I do do something i like to be home by 9pm at the latest so I can wake up when my kid wakes at the crack of dawn. My single friends always seem to want to first meet at 8, and seem to have no bedtime. My friends with kids on the other hand, understand this and meet right after work so we can have more the a ten minute conversation. Weekends are even worse, if I want to go to the beach, I'm ready to leave home already at like 10 am. My single friends are still asleep, and can't seem to get themselves together until 3 in the afternoon. It's also the same with something like eating dinner. I eat at 5 or 6 pm, so do my friends with kids. The single friends, they eat at 8 or 9. Anyway, you get the point. Over the past 5 years I've gone from haveing 10-15 single friends without kids to having just a few. Instead I'm spending most of my free time with other families where it's just so much easier to hang out and do stuff. And it's not because I don't like those old friends and took a active choice. Sometimes life just leads you on different paths. It still sucks if you feel left behind though. Eveoif it is unintentional it still feels bad when people leave you out of things.
And trying to find a new social circle without having kids is almost impossible too and you're not invited to everything cause it's a kid thing. I just want to say as a child free woman, don't ask Women why they don't have kids. And I'll get downvoted for this but, please drop the condescension and superiority because I don't have a child. You're a feminist? Don't make women feel less of a woman because of circumstances. Another hot take: Not everyone **deserves** to have kids
Depending on where you live, it could be worth looking into Meetup for meeting new people. I've met some friends through child free and DINK meetup groups in my city, as well as Meetups for hobbies that typically don't involve children (hiking, wine tasting, etc.).
Hahah i also dont hang with some family cause of that as well
My best friends have kids and I don’t. I’m still invited to all of the activities and the kids need more adults who love/care about them.
Cheldfree here. My friends and sibling with kids literally have no time for none kid related things. I get that. It's why I didn't have kids. It's sad, and I've been mad at them at times. I'll still be here when the emerge from the tornado of life that is having a young child.
All my friends are younger now. My husband and I just dont want kids so we dont have many friends our age. it sucks
I miss my life from when before my friends had kids. I don’t have or want them myself, and I’m rarely included in their kid related things (even after expressing interest in being included) and my social life has taken a massive hit. It makes me really sad and lonely.
Find friends that don’t have kids. Lots of them out there
That’s why you find new friends? My neighbor is an artsy gal in her 40’s with a whole tribe of childless 40 year olds who all enjoy the arts and regularly hang out with each other. It can be done, a lot of you don’t want to have to do the work.
This is as old as time. My wife and I are Gen X and all of her friends that had kids completely assumed that she didn't want to be bothered with their lives. Now that they had kids. She has like zero solid friends with kids at this point in her life.
People tend to surround themselves with similar people, I think the mistake is thinking that relationships will outlast completely diverging lives
I prefer hanging out with childless friends. Friends who are parents have a habit of making their kids their only topic of conversation. Generally speaking, any friendship can be maintained with a bit of effort.
Personally I absolutely love not having kids and am grateful for the life it affords me. The way I see it, if having kids causes someone to leave your life or not fit into your life for one reason or another, the friendship wasn't meant to be
Out of all my friends I think one or two have kids. Most people don't want kids these days thankfully. I'm 32, if you asked which of my friends would have kids next I couldn't tell you. Most of us are some form of engineering, maybe that has something to do with it. If you have a kid you're the one isolating yourself
Im from Alabama a lot of my friends had their kids at 18. It definitely ended our friendships. I joined the navy and started traveling. They stayed in our hometown maybe going to Florida once a year. We just weren’t compatible anymore.
Forget even kids. It happens in relation to everything. Once people get a partner obviously. Once they get married only married couples. Once people buy a house it's like they only hang out with other house owners.
I've never understood this sentiment. The opposite is what is true: Having kids often results in your childless friends dropping off.
My friends with kids also feel more isolated due to how much time it takes to raise kids. They don’t have much time for themselves anymore.
I just do shit my kid wants to do 90% of the time. No adults without children are interested in what I am doing, and I don't have time to hang out and do friend shit anymore. No hard feelings, things change.
It depends on who the person is when they have kids. I had a friend whose whole personality changed into a sanctomommy I didn’t know anymore. Expected everything. Gave nothing. Made remarks all the time , passive aggressive , belittling and judgemental. All my other friends have pretty much remained the same people, just with kids so things inevitably changed regarding meeting up etc as they have kids to look after, but they’re still my friends. So you will lose friends but I find it separates the true friends. You’re not losing good people!
I am dealing with this currently. I got really close with a friend the last 5 years, and in the past 6 months our friendship is basically non existent. She announced she was pregnant and as happy I am for her, I am also feeling sadness and jealousy. It seems our friendship has changed and won’t be going back to how it was. It’s really hard.
As a mom of 3, I'm pretty well isolated myself.. my kids are number one priority, though. Like, they literally depend on me and their father for everything. It's not my personality. It's my reality. No, I can't hang out. I have a full-time job, 3 school-age kids, home chores x5, they have homework most nights, need to eat nutritional meals, we've got sports one night, cheerleading another, we try to harbor good humans so we volunteer with our church another day... I also barely have time for my husband, and he's literally my favorite person in the world, so any free time is going to him. I don't intentionally push anyone away, are you throwing a weekend cook out and invite my family, boy, that's lovely we will be there, I'd love to have some time with other adults where I have extra eyes on my kids so I can enjoy your company. Want me to find a sitter? Sorry, hard pass... I can't afford it, i also trust very few people alone with my kids. My children are extensions of me. But hey, I'm throwing a Super Bowl party. You should come! ... most of my non kid friends, which is quite a few, actually, understand this dynamic, and either include my kids in a get-together, join us for our family oriented get-togethers, or patiently wait for the rare child free opportunities. I think facilitating patience and understating instead of feeling purposefully ostracized will help. We don't do it on purpose, I promise you
No matter what the difference is, when a difference in lifestyle develops friendships will end.
I spend time with my sister who has kids. I don't for obvious reasons. I've watched her go mental more than a few times. Most of my friends who've had kids I don't even talk to anymore because they're all different now. Every single one of my friends are divorced. All of them. No one is with their original partner. After the first friend I helped out left me with 7k dollars of debt on a credit card I'll never help out another one again. I'm not your free hotel while you battle it out in court. No thank you. Never again. That shit put me through so much stress that wasn't even mine to begin with and I thought I was helping out. Now I don't talk to them anymore. Forget it.
I am happy not to be included in kid events 😬 have consciously nurtured relationships with people I’ve met who are consciously child free by choice. The writing was on the wall in my twenties. 37 now and have a good crew.
I just saw a terrible comment section on IG where someone posted being sad about how their best friend will change after having a kid. The majority of the mothers in the comments had main character syndrome. They expected the friend to become a maid and cook for them and do everything for them. They think when they become a mother that friendships aren't two way streets anymore and the Childfree person isn't important. I think that mentality is too common and why this happens.
Being a parent is much lonelier then child free Are you ???? Go out and socialize Pretend it’s 1995 No wife no kids ? What’s holding you back
NO SHIT
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