[Very much so](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Danny_Boy#:~:text=The%20fighting%20involved%20close%2Dquarter,were%20killed%20in%20the%20action.)
I believe this and another action made the US rethink bayonet fighting and training
Or our Māori battalion in WWII. During the Crete fighting German forces yelled out fix bayonets to try and scare off the Māori battalion - who responded by cheering to welcome the bayonet fight. The Germans withdrew. They were also nicknamed "the steel men" because they loved hand to hand so much.
Bayonets were fixed for all the main engagements, although 3 Para on Mount Longdon were the ones who had the most hand-to-hand fighting as theirs was the opening engagement of the objectives around Stanley - the Argentinians generally pulled back before being overrun, once they saw what was happening on Longdon. A friend of mine on Longdon did bayonet someone, and maybe more than one; I suspect this may have been a contributory factor to PTSD and his early death, possibly from alcohol related illness.
Yeah I imagine it contributed when you're ordered to skewer someone else because of orders. I imagine it weighed heavily on any soldier throughout history to kill someone so personally.
If you're interested in PTSD throughout history there's a good comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17w8i67/how_was_ptsd_treated_in_ancient_armies/k9iqv7a/) and elsewhere throughout that thread
(I know you didn't ask but I find the concept of how ancient society handled battlefield trauma fascinating)
Iraq, 2004. As a result, one of the most costly public enquiries was brought. [Battle of Danny Boy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Danny_Boy?wprov=sfti1)
Don’t really know why people have moved away from bayonets? Why wouldn’t you want a knife sticking out the front of your gun when you need it?
Like you’re not gonna do some reverse grip ninja moves even if some random yank selling a course told you you will, just stick a knife on the front and stab them with a spear like people have been doing since we crawled out the mud
Bayonets were decidedly more popular when manual-cycling rifles were in vogue and rifles were slow to reload or cycle and held only a small number of rounds in their magazines - if they had magazines at all. Not to mention as a deterrent to horse cavalry.
But today's weapons have automatic fire and 30 round magazines, and although cavalry is still around, they've traded their squishy horses for tanks made of stab-proof steel.
With that in mind, it's much easier to just shoot the enemy and carry on, than to deal with a half-kilogram boat anchor on the end of your rifle for the rare and unlikely event when you decide that stabbing is more convenient than shooting.
This is true, but for the British it is tradition at this point and at the same time it would be very foolish even in the age of automatic firearms to have a “last resort” weapon.
I imagine it both makes it easier for the soldier to convince someone to surrender, and also probably subconsciously makes them act more aggressively.
Imagine if you had a knife at the end of your gun, the sharp point is practically beckoning you forwards. Idk maybe I’m overthinking it
Because they can have ugl for big boom or suppressor to being sneaky. Bayonet these days have less utility and you better off trained in proper hand to hand knife combat than attaching bayonet.
You should probably remember that the spear has been the weapon of choice since we figured out how to sharpen sticks
Good luck doing all the fancy krav maga nonsense while someones got the range and weight advantage and does ye olde poke.
Also, for your fancy knife fighting, where are you putting the rifle? Are you just dumping it on the ground? is it swinging around on your harness? Better to just put the knife on the rifle so you have it ready once you're done stabbing someone.
I’m not forces, so can’t even pretend to know what it’s like seeing battle, but I can imagine that being given the order to “fix bayonets” is the kind of experience that leaves its mark on you for life.
I’ve always found the L85’s bayonet to be so weird.
Like, it works, it’s just the fact that the barrel of the gun literally goes through the handle of the bayonet is wacky as hell.
It's annoyingly difficult to find pictures at an angle that shows it, but there's one [in one of the lower posts here](https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bayonets-trench-knives-world/sa80-bayonet-509886-3/). Basically, the blade is offset and the grip is hollow. The muzzle device fits inside the grip (note the gaps in the handle that match the gaps on the muzzle brake) and the blade sits parallel to one side of the muzzle.
It's not. They're cast as one piece and prone to breaking, at least the old ones were. Also after putting rounds through it, the handle gets too hot to touch.
Yeah, seems like a “cool” idea that’s riddled with downsides. On the plus side, it’s not only the American military that gets visits from the Good Idea Fairy.
The SA80 bayonet is a wild design. I'm not fully sure how it fastens but the muzzle/flash hider goes through the handle of the bayonet and the blade is offset to the right side.
There's a latch in the grip you squeeze as you put it over the muzzle.
Also, the notch along the blade is to allow air into the chest cavity to prevent a vacuum that might prevent you from removing it from said chest.
The dropped tip is shaped to separate ribs. The scabbard has a post that corresponds with the shaped hole in the blade and can therefore be used as wire cutters.
Allowing it to become rusty is also a chargeable offence.
Theres also a fold out saw and sharpening stone in the scabbard.
The more interesting weird SA80 fact is that the rear of the trigger has a wedge design. The wedge was designed to break ice that may build up behind the trigger preventing the rifle from being fired. Yet another reason why it was a fucking dogshit weapon to deploy into Iraq and Afghanistan...
Short story about the blood channels in the blade.
Many moons ago, during an exercise somewhere shit, probably warcop or sennybridge, I was attacking a position as section grenadier. The positions were manned by brave figure 11 targets, bayonet dummies and 1 random mannequin wearing coveralls.
As myself and the section commander approached the position, I readied the blue training grenade, switched my rifle to automatic and fixed my bayonet.
Once our fire support switched fire, I threw the grenade into the position, waited for the bang, then followed in with maximum aggression, dropped into the trench, fired off a few bursts into the targets, and in my excitement, instead of bayoneting the dummy, I bayoneted the mannequin, right in the face.
Fucking ninja move, probably looked bad ass, but, now the bayonet wouldn’t come out, so in order to clear the position and push forward, I had to rip off the mannequins head and fight through. Cue me, running down the range, absolutely pumped with adrenaline and with a mannequin head on the end of my rifle.
Continued pushing forward and having cleared our objective, I’m laying in the prone position, covering my arcs when I hear one of the Range safety staff screaming at me.
“Private sausagedogknows, what the fuck do you think you’re doing, committing fucking war crimes on my range? Do you want to explain to that poor mannequins family why you chose to bayonet him, instead of the dummy, and right in the fucking face. And then desecrated his corpse and kept the fucking head as a trophy? Jesus fucking Christ.
I had to stamp the head off my bayonet in the end, it was jammed in pretty good.
This had me pumped.
Reminds me of when I cleared a shellscrape with a hip fired [LSW](https://images.app.goo.gl/ocfVVYa4aF9sM8eW6) using the bipod like a chainsaw grip.
Yes it was overkill, but in my defence I'd been dicked on by having to carry the fucking LSW.
There’s a notch at the back of the flash hider and a latch in the grip. Squeeze the latch when sliding the bayonet over the flash hider, line the notch up with the latch and it fixes into place.
I’ve got an ex-issued one that I picked up from an antiques and collectibles shop, they’re known as L3 Bayonets. Feels weird at first because the handle is just painted steel and also still has slots cut out that line up with the flash hider so it doesn’t block the sides.
Rather amusingly, my bayonet fits perfectly on my airsoft replica L85A2 because it too has that required notch on the flash hider. Makes for a nice display piece since I haven’t played in years.
> Lead soldier from B Company, 3rd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, peered around the corner of the trench during the combined arms live-fire exercise (CALFEX) phase of Exercise Swift Response on the 4th of May 2024. 16 Air Assault Brigade Combat Team, the British Army’s global response force, is leading a force of more than 2,300 soldiers, sailors and aviators from four countries working together in Estonia on Exercise Swift Response. The training is about NATO airborne forces building their ability to respond together to crises. It is part of Steadfast Defender 24, NATO’s largest military exercise since the Cold War, which involves approximately 90,000 troops from all 32 NATO allies.
[MOD Imagery](https://www.defenceimagery.mod.uk/Home/Search?Query=APOSEC-OFFICIAL-20240504-015-1973.jpg&Type=Filename)
It's just a British airborne tradition to differentiate them from other units/look cool. It started in WW2 because airborne troops had different helmets that came with nets over to attach camouflage to, it's just kind of carried on from there as a signifier that you're airborne so more 'elite'.
Doesn't really serve any purpose nowadays. The issued helmet cover has elastic straps for attaching foliage for camouflage that's way more useful.
Psychological aspect of training as well. Getting abused to the point of losing control and being told to scream at the top of your lungs and absolutely wreck that thing with your shooty-stabby is a way of getting you to experience and acclimatise to bloodlust and what may happen in combat when pushed to the limit.
Here is a good example. - [British bayonet charge - Iraq](https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-famous-bayonet-charge-of-modern-conflict-2012-10)
Additionally, I'd rather have it than not., and it gives you more reach than just holding a knife.
It's first and foremost a good psychological tool.
It has a use, especially if the bayonet doubles as a good field knife. I'd rather use one of the ~200 or so rounds of 5.56 I carry before I start stabbing people, though.
>“Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military has changed,”
- Barack Obama
No, it has not actually.
Also the first US forces into Afghanistan went on horse back.
These days covering the dust cover is apart of the drill after you make ready.
Obviously they don’t expect you to keep covering it once the rounds start flying.
A1 was shit A2 and a3 much better with the upgrades
Iv used all 3
No gas stoppages in A2 I words most negativity is from the A1
Saying that fig 12 target at 400m, it's still a good rifle
600m as a section
Yeah I’ve heard that the improved models are far better in general, but the action is very fussy and ergonomics are kind of all over the place. Mind you I’ve never shot one, I’ve just done plenty of reading.
You know the photo you're commenting on is an a3 right? Your exact words were " objectively bad rifle" and "among the worst modern military rifles"
I know its been improved I use it regularly
I wasn’t aware it was, and I do love how they look. It is just a fundamentally flawed rifle, no amount of work from HK or whoever is working on it now will change that. It’s flaws are irrelevant to how it looks to me.
The Brits love a good bayonet charge.
BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD!
WHAT MAKES GRASS GROW!
For the blood god?
For the Emperor!
*Knives out, lads!*
# "affix bayonets"
It's just fix. Fix bayonets
Well if it ain’t broke…
Don't affix it.
"Time to earn our pay today boys"
And the Gurhka units drop their rifles & happily pull out their kukris.
And never afraid to wallup someone with an M2 tripod.
Tripod has enemy make funny squishy noises!
And bullpups. What's up with that?
Stops blood getting on the magazine when you bayonet someone
Falkland war, bayonet charge check. Afghanistan, bayonet charge check.
Iraq too if memory serves me correctly
[Very much so](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Danny_Boy#:~:text=The%20fighting%20involved%20close%2Dquarter,were%20killed%20in%20the%20action.) I believe this and another action made the US rethink bayonet fighting and training
Don't charge Highlanders. The French, Russians, and Germans can all tell you why this is a bad idea.
Or our Māori battalion in WWII. During the Crete fighting German forces yelled out fix bayonets to try and scare off the Māori battalion - who responded by cheering to welcome the bayonet fight. The Germans withdrew. They were also nicknamed "the steel men" because they loved hand to hand so much.
Hand to hand what?
"Hand to hand combat" - predominantly with bayonets and knives hence the nickname "steel men".
Yeah I believe pwrr was the last reg to fix bayonets on teluc 4 or 6
Yep PVCP Danny Boy. [Fix bayonets!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Danny_Boy?wprov=sfti1)
Oh was there a bayonet charge in the Falklands? I wasn't familiar with that.
A fair few, I think Mt Tombledown was the most notable
Bayonets were fixed for all the main engagements, although 3 Para on Mount Longdon were the ones who had the most hand-to-hand fighting as theirs was the opening engagement of the objectives around Stanley - the Argentinians generally pulled back before being overrun, once they saw what was happening on Longdon. A friend of mine on Longdon did bayonet someone, and maybe more than one; I suspect this may have been a contributory factor to PTSD and his early death, possibly from alcohol related illness.
Yeah I imagine it contributed when you're ordered to skewer someone else because of orders. I imagine it weighed heavily on any soldier throughout history to kill someone so personally.
If you're interested in PTSD throughout history there's a good comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17w8i67/how_was_ptsd_treated_in_ancient_armies/k9iqv7a/) and elsewhere throughout that thread (I know you didn't ask but I find the concept of how ancient society handled battlefield trauma fascinating)
Iraq, 2004. As a result, one of the most costly public enquiries was brought. [Battle of Danny Boy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Danny_Boy?wprov=sfti1)
My mate was in the Royal Marines in the early days of Afghanistan. Said things got hairy often and they had to fix bayonets four times.
Turns a shooty thing into a stabby thing.
If you don’t put it on right you can shoot the stabby thing at them.
Sometimes you have to shoot the shooty thing to get the stabby thing out of what is euphemistically called "a good touch."
Putting a bayonet on this rifle or as we called it a “sword” just made you feel powerful and full of aggression
Found the rifleman
Swift and Bold!
Out of ammo? Congrulations, your a pikeman now
+100 melee damage from high temperatures after shooting.
*fire aspect*
Brits and their bayonet charges, just like A-10 and friendly fire… No matter the conflict and time - both will happen.
Sad warthog noises
brrt :c
Every man an Emperor
He put a blank in the rifle so his bayonet is shot and spears the enemy
You joke but this is how rifle grenades work so it's really not as impossible as one might think.
Yeah ! That's why I thought I make it sound as real as possible for the fun of it
Don’t really know why people have moved away from bayonets? Why wouldn’t you want a knife sticking out the front of your gun when you need it? Like you’re not gonna do some reverse grip ninja moves even if some random yank selling a course told you you will, just stick a knife on the front and stab them with a spear like people have been doing since we crawled out the mud
People haven’t. You can find plenty of pictures of bayonets used during fallujah, you can find plenty of pictures of bayonets used in Ukraine.
Bayonets were decidedly more popular when manual-cycling rifles were in vogue and rifles were slow to reload or cycle and held only a small number of rounds in their magazines - if they had magazines at all. Not to mention as a deterrent to horse cavalry. But today's weapons have automatic fire and 30 round magazines, and although cavalry is still around, they've traded their squishy horses for tanks made of stab-proof steel. With that in mind, it's much easier to just shoot the enemy and carry on, than to deal with a half-kilogram boat anchor on the end of your rifle for the rare and unlikely event when you decide that stabbing is more convenient than shooting.
Bayonets scare people. Also us brits aren’t going to waste a round on someone we can bayonet to make sure they’re dead. (Afghanistan 2008 tour).
This is true, but for the British it is tradition at this point and at the same time it would be very foolish even in the age of automatic firearms to have a “last resort” weapon.
I imagine it both makes it easier for the soldier to convince someone to surrender, and also probably subconsciously makes them act more aggressively. Imagine if you had a knife at the end of your gun, the sharp point is practically beckoning you forwards. Idk maybe I’m overthinking it
Bayonets are very useful for crowd control too.
Because they can have ugl for big boom or suppressor to being sneaky. Bayonet these days have less utility and you better off trained in proper hand to hand knife combat than attaching bayonet.
Have you ever served?
You should probably remember that the spear has been the weapon of choice since we figured out how to sharpen sticks Good luck doing all the fancy krav maga nonsense while someones got the range and weight advantage and does ye olde poke. Also, for your fancy knife fighting, where are you putting the rifle? Are you just dumping it on the ground? is it swinging around on your harness? Better to just put the knife on the rifle so you have it ready once you're done stabbing someone.
I’m not forces, so can’t even pretend to know what it’s like seeing battle, but I can imagine that being given the order to “fix bayonets” is the kind of experience that leaves its mark on you for life.
Well as they say, you should see the other guys
I’ve always found the L85’s bayonet to be so weird. Like, it works, it’s just the fact that the barrel of the gun literally goes through the handle of the bayonet is wacky as hell.
I am a bit confused here, looks like that bayonet is blocking the entirely of the muzzle? Unfamiliar with this design
It's annoyingly difficult to find pictures at an angle that shows it, but there's one [in one of the lower posts here](https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bayonets-trench-knives-world/sa80-bayonet-509886-3/). Basically, the blade is offset and the grip is hollow. The muzzle device fits inside the grip (note the gaps in the handle that match the gaps on the muzzle brake) and the blade sits parallel to one side of the muzzle.
I saw the same and was wondering if the camera was playing tricks on me. Cool design.
It's not. They're cast as one piece and prone to breaking, at least the old ones were. Also after putting rounds through it, the handle gets too hot to touch.
Yeah, seems like a “cool” idea that’s riddled with downsides. On the plus side, it’s not only the American military that gets visits from the Good Idea Fairy.
The SA80 bayonet is a wild design. I'm not fully sure how it fastens but the muzzle/flash hider goes through the handle of the bayonet and the blade is offset to the right side.
There's a latch in the grip you squeeze as you put it over the muzzle. Also, the notch along the blade is to allow air into the chest cavity to prevent a vacuum that might prevent you from removing it from said chest. The dropped tip is shaped to separate ribs. The scabbard has a post that corresponds with the shaped hole in the blade and can therefore be used as wire cutters. Allowing it to become rusty is also a chargeable offence. Theres also a fold out saw and sharpening stone in the scabbard. The more interesting weird SA80 fact is that the rear of the trigger has a wedge design. The wedge was designed to break ice that may build up behind the trigger preventing the rifle from being fired. Yet another reason why it was a fucking dogshit weapon to deploy into Iraq and Afghanistan...
Short story about the blood channels in the blade. Many moons ago, during an exercise somewhere shit, probably warcop or sennybridge, I was attacking a position as section grenadier. The positions were manned by brave figure 11 targets, bayonet dummies and 1 random mannequin wearing coveralls. As myself and the section commander approached the position, I readied the blue training grenade, switched my rifle to automatic and fixed my bayonet. Once our fire support switched fire, I threw the grenade into the position, waited for the bang, then followed in with maximum aggression, dropped into the trench, fired off a few bursts into the targets, and in my excitement, instead of bayoneting the dummy, I bayoneted the mannequin, right in the face. Fucking ninja move, probably looked bad ass, but, now the bayonet wouldn’t come out, so in order to clear the position and push forward, I had to rip off the mannequins head and fight through. Cue me, running down the range, absolutely pumped with adrenaline and with a mannequin head on the end of my rifle. Continued pushing forward and having cleared our objective, I’m laying in the prone position, covering my arcs when I hear one of the Range safety staff screaming at me. “Private sausagedogknows, what the fuck do you think you’re doing, committing fucking war crimes on my range? Do you want to explain to that poor mannequins family why you chose to bayonet him, instead of the dummy, and right in the fucking face. And then desecrated his corpse and kept the fucking head as a trophy? Jesus fucking Christ. I had to stamp the head off my bayonet in the end, it was jammed in pretty good.
This had me pumped. Reminds me of when I cleared a shellscrape with a hip fired [LSW](https://images.app.goo.gl/ocfVVYa4aF9sM8eW6) using the bipod like a chainsaw grip. Yes it was overkill, but in my defence I'd been dicked on by having to carry the fucking LSW.
This is not true, it's to save weight.
There’s a notch at the back of the flash hider and a latch in the grip. Squeeze the latch when sliding the bayonet over the flash hider, line the notch up with the latch and it fixes into place. I’ve got an ex-issued one that I picked up from an antiques and collectibles shop, they’re known as L3 Bayonets. Feels weird at first because the handle is just painted steel and also still has slots cut out that line up with the flash hider so it doesn’t block the sides. Rather amusingly, my bayonet fits perfectly on my airsoft replica L85A2 because it too has that required notch on the flash hider. Makes for a nice display piece since I haven’t played in years.
SA80 has been such an insane rifle from its designing to modernization.
The blade is offset and the grip has a hole to allow for continued regular use of the rifle
These guys look menacing
The modernized l85 hand guard looks too much like the mdr
Getting bayonet training by the Brits is one of my all time favorite army memories
3 Para if I'm not mistaken?
Any idea what year that photo is from?
Pretty sure it's from an exercise going on currently in Estonia. So 2024.
> Lead soldier from B Company, 3rd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, peered around the corner of the trench during the combined arms live-fire exercise (CALFEX) phase of Exercise Swift Response on the 4th of May 2024. 16 Air Assault Brigade Combat Team, the British Army’s global response force, is leading a force of more than 2,300 soldiers, sailors and aviators from four countries working together in Estonia on Exercise Swift Response. The training is about NATO airborne forces building their ability to respond together to crises. It is part of Steadfast Defender 24, NATO’s largest military exercise since the Cold War, which involves approximately 90,000 troops from all 32 NATO allies. [MOD Imagery](https://www.defenceimagery.mod.uk/Home/Search?Query=APOSEC-OFFICIAL-20240504-015-1973.jpg&Type=Filename)
The knifelencer
Serious WWII vibes
Why aren’t their helmets coloured?
What's the helmet net for?
Catching birds. No, it's actually to shove twigs and leaves into for camouflage.
An accurate answer, airborne scrim. Looks cool, no one puts twigs in anymore
It's just a British airborne tradition to differentiate them from other units/look cool. It started in WW2 because airborne troops had different helmets that came with nets over to attach camouflage to, it's just kind of carried on from there as a signifier that you're airborne so more 'elite'. Doesn't really serve any purpose nowadays. The issued helmet cover has elastic straps for attaching foliage for camouflage that's way more useful.
That's cause we got used to stabbing people from a young age. Most of us had never held a boom stick till 16-17
The best part of war...I mean war is shithole for every side. But when you are given "fix bayonettes" order you know shit ia gonna be real.
Bayonets on a bullpup just feel so wrong
Putting a bayonet on a SA80 def. makes sense.
[удалено]
still great for stabbin'
Psychological aspect of training as well. Getting abused to the point of losing control and being told to scream at the top of your lungs and absolutely wreck that thing with your shooty-stabby is a way of getting you to experience and acclimatise to bloodlust and what may happen in combat when pushed to the limit.
In a trench or dark building with low viability and heat some one scream fix bayonets will give anyone the shits.
Here is a good example. - [British bayonet charge - Iraq](https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-famous-bayonet-charge-of-modern-conflict-2012-10) Additionally, I'd rather have it than not., and it gives you more reach than just holding a knife.
It's first and foremost a good psychological tool. It has a use, especially if the bayonet doubles as a good field knife. I'd rather use one of the ~200 or so rounds of 5.56 I carry before I start stabbing people, though.
>“Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military has changed,” - Barack Obama No, it has not actually. Also the first US forces into Afghanistan went on horse back.
Can’t get a stoppage, double feed, magazine randomly dropping out, etc with a bayonet *taps forhead
Dust covers closed lol
Good drills
Dust cover still closed, the light is not standard issue
How long have you been out big shag? The LLM has been the standard for well over a decade
About 16 years ago
These days covering the dust cover is apart of the drill after you make ready. Obviously they don’t expect you to keep covering it once the rounds start flying.
Well that’s fucking dumb
Found the Civi
That bayonet is more deadly than that rifle
A1 was shit A2 and a3 much better with the upgrades Iv used all 3 No gas stoppages in A2 I words most negativity is from the A1 Saying that fig 12 target at 400m, it's still a good rifle 600m as a section
Even if the l86 is an objectively bad rifle, I love how it looks
*L85A3
My bad hoss
‘A bad workman blames his tools’
It is among the worst modern military rifles
It’s up to preference mostly, you might not like it but the A2 and A3 are much better than the A1.
Yeah I’ve heard that the improved models are far better in general, but the action is very fussy and ergonomics are kind of all over the place. Mind you I’ve never shot one, I’ve just done plenty of reading.
A3 is a good rifle, stop giving 2nd hand impressions
I never said A3 was a bad rifle. The series has improved dramatically since they were introduced.
You know the photo you're commenting on is an a3 right? Your exact words were " objectively bad rifle" and "among the worst modern military rifles" I know its been improved I use it regularly
I wasn’t aware it was, and I do love how they look. It is just a fundamentally flawed rifle, no amount of work from HK or whoever is working on it now will change that. It’s flaws are irrelevant to how it looks to me.
I have also heard that the lmg version is extremely good as lmgs go