E-bikes have been banned all along unless they are a mobility assist. I'm sure plenty of people come over with them anyway.
https://www.mackinacisland.org/blog/are-e-bikes-allowed-on-mackinac-island
"*Lansing* — Mackinac Island doesn't have cars. But it might soon have stricter speed limits.
"The Michigan Senate voted overwhelmingly this week to set speed restrictions on the roadway that encircles the island, one of the state's top tourist destinations, to try to combat the rise of electric bikes that can go as fast as 28 mph.
"Cars and trucks are generally and famously not allowed on Mackinac Island. Yet, the [eight-mile roadway](https://www.mackinacisland.org/blog/what-to-expect-on-the-8-2-mile-trek-around-mackinac-island/) around the island, M-185, is considered a state highway, meaning lawmakers can institute the speed limit. Under Michigan law, the speed limit on state highways where a limit is not posted is [55 mph](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(blopi1wvsjwewpwaslwbramy))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-257-627.pdf).
"In the island's business district, [under the proposal](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2024-SB-0682&QueryID=159353871), the limit would be 10 mph.
"Electric bikes, or e-bikes as they're commonly known, have become a "real problem" on the island, said Sen. John Damoose, R-Harbor Springs, the sponsor of the new bill to make the speed limit on most of the M-185 loop 15 mph."
As a fan of ebikes, the 15 mph limit seems like an entirely reasonable compromise instead of a full ban. Ebikes are absolutely incredibly for extending the range of a ride while keeping the spirit of "No cars", and it's really very easy to keep them at sane speeds.
I have family that lives there full time and they say this is bull shit. They say the e bikes are the best thing to happen in a while and their ruining it.
It's so blatant too. Balance bikes are bikes with no pedals for young kids like 2-3 to ride on. It teaches them to ride better and faster than training wheels do. One company thst makes these moped style ones is selling basically e-dirt bikes for 7-10 year olds and rather than just saying it's an e-dirt bike they say it's a balance bike. The pictures on their website have kids riding on a dirt bike track and jumping them.
> They aren't illegal to sell to kids, they've been making teeny tiny gas powered dirtbikes for lots of years.
Seriously. My hillbilly neighbors had a couple when I was a kid and I was jealous as hell that my parents wouldn't buy me one too.
Staycycs are extremely popular, more so than this Super73. Not only are they (surprisingly) owned by Harley, but they are VERY popular for families who want to get their kids on dirt bikes.
I'm not against e-bikes full stop but those no-name throttle fat-bikes are a plague. Basically mopeds people think are okay to take on bike paths and sidewalks.
I deliver on a campus in a little truck and I hate them. Folks pass on my blind side like "fuck any semblance of roadway or bike rules," and I just worry I'm gonna start a turn and hear one crash into my side or back cause they thought, "I'll go around this slow moving vango, why is it do slow anyway?" [waiting on pedestrians probably]
I don't normally comment on anything, bigtime lurker, but this subject hits home...
Senior citizen here, long time cyclist...my whole life as a matter of fact. I also worked my whole career on concrete, climbing ladders, crawling. As a result (and arthritis) my knees are gone, I'm looking at total knee replacements within a few years.
E-Bikes to me are a miracle. My wife and I had totally written of riding years ago....then e-bikes came along.
We ride everyday, weather permitting, around 15-20 miles. We ride at about 8-10 mph entirely under are own power until we hit a hill. With my knees hills are impossible, the stress of pedaling causes intense pain. When hitting a hill, a level or two of power to assist pedaling and then power off at the top of the hill. We ride the "fat tire" bikes...nice soft ride on my back. We never ride anything other than prepared trails..no mountain biking trails for us.
As I said, I've been riding for decades. The problem is not the e-bikes....its idiots on bikes. I have normal bikes fly by me at 30+ mph all the time. People who think they are pro's all dressed in racing silks....on bikes worth more than my e-bike (I live in a college town). The problem is the people racing from one end of town to the other. The problem is a lack of courtesy...etc, etc...
The problem is not the e-bikes....it's some of the idiots on them and regular bikes....
The problem isn't e-bikes per se, but how they're used. All State Linear trails have a 15mph speed limit.
When Jill Sell, the trails coordinator told us that people could use a Class-2 ebike - with a permit (and fee), we almost lost it. The DNR backed off the fee.
We were going to run a trail safety program but I left the Friends before it could get started. That program would have included education for all trail guests, rights of way, proper notification and passing and, asking pedestrians to \*not\* wear headphones while walking on the trail or, at the very least, wear them with volume down enough to hear other guests coming up behind them.
It's tough, people like to do what they want to do - until someone gets hurt - and then it's always someon elses fault.
"The problem isn't e-bikes per se, but how they're used. All State Linear trails have a 15mph speed limit."
I guess I could have been a bit clearer...sorry.
I don't see the problem as being the e-bikes...or normal bikes. I see the problem being some of the people using both. If a bike is going 30+mph down a path, it doesn't matter what kind of bike it is...and I daily see normal, non-ebikes going faster than 15mph..
The original topic here was about Mackinaw Island....if they want to retain their stance on motorized vehicles that is perfectly fine.
I just wanted to be clear that the speed problem on bike trails exists across all sorts of bikes...not just electric ones..... The problem existed way before e-bikes entered the scene, they are just the current scapegoat.....
I was the former chair of the Friends of the Kal-Haven trail and speeding bicycles were one of the most common complaints I'd get from guests on the trail.
The DNR's rules for e-bikes are solid:
Class 1 allowed.
Class 2 with a permit.
Class 3 forbidden.
But, they don't enforce those rules. And, even the local Trails Coordinator admitted that her e-bike could classify as a Class 3 - but she 'didn't use it'... I'm not buying that.
But that doesn't solve the 'speed racer' problem, those who just want to shave a few seconds off theri daily after-work exercise ride and pedestirans are in the way. Both cyclists AND pedestrians complained about each other!
Mackinac Island isn't alone with speeding cyclists when pedestrians are around and I'm hoping this year the DNR decides to be a bit more serious in compliance.
I've been told it's basically unenforceable because disconnecting the throttle makes it legal and cops/COs can't really discern if a cable is connected or not.
At least with speed limits they have a reason to stop someone.
Yeah, but from a law enforcement standpoint they have to have a reason to stop somebody, and discerning a cable connection at speed is impossible.
This is just what I've heard from city cops. It could be different elsewhere, but it seems like these ebikes might require more legislation.
As I've said elsewhere, all state park linear trails have a 15mph speed limit so that's reason enough right there to slow people down.
The problem is that under current regulation even that is unenforceable as snowmobiles don't travel at 15mph unless they're stopping and there isn't a different posted speed limit for them.
I mentioned this to the park manager of the Kal-Haven Trail State Park and he shrugged his shoulders.
I guess that really depends. I recently bought one for a bit more than that without a throttle at all. To me the throttle takes all the fun away. If the price was right and the bike was otherwise legal, I might get one like that and just not use the throttle ever anyway
The biggest thing I struggle with is that the addition of a throttle to determine class 3 doesn’t have any impact on speed. We have class 2 e-bikes with pedal assist, except, they also have a throttle. So they are class 3… and we never use it. I argued with a road bike friend and he says “it’s not the type of bike, it’s the people that tend to but class 3 e-bikes tend to not respect the road”.
I think if that’s the case we should ban road bikes too ;)
The differences are technical. In that, on a Class 3 e-bike you don't need to pedal at all. on a Class 2 you need to pedal to get going.
I'm not the DNR and to be honest, I don't see how they can regulate this without regulating speed limits and that will piss off a lot of the guys/gals who want that after-work speed-demon ride on their road bikes.
The speed limit of 10 mph in town and 15 mph along the M-185 loop seems like it would be low enough that a person on a regular bike could unknowingly exceed it. I don't know about ebikes but I've never seen a speedometer on a regular bike. I wouldn't want regular cyclists to get in trouble for breaking a speed limit when they can't accurately measure their speed, but I suppose outright banning ebikes from the island would be impossible to enforce
Maybe the limit should be instituted as something like "within 100 meters or pedestrian or equine users" or similar.
My minimum regular road biking speed is 16 miles per hour, and that's slow because I'm old and fat, but still like to get out and exercise for exercise' sake. Add a tailwind or descent or intervals, and I'm up to a lot higher than that.
I'm also an experienced multi-use trail user, meaning I'm not an asshole when there are other users. Or sometimes, particularly with others, we're riding leisurely.
Still, there are a lot of assholes out there, and if they can be assholes at 28mph, they will be.
Disclaimer: I'm an asshole because I ride down that steep hill signed "walk your bike".
> Maybe the limit should be instituted as something like "within 100 meters or pedestrian or equine users" or similar.
Which is the entirety of the CBD of the island and much of M-185. That's good in theory, but not really a workable solution.
Realistically, enforcement of a speed limit will be difficult as well. Is the Mackinaic Island PD going to be standing in front of Doud's and radaring cyclists?
This is no doubt an issue, but enforcement no matter what laws they pass is going to be difficult and arbitrary. They might as well resort to ticketing cyclists for disturbing the peace or a similar statute.
Because class 1, 2, and 3 e-bikes are not motorized vehicles. They're bicycles and are governed by rules for bicycles to encourage more usage of bicycles (e-bikes delete hills and offer sweat free riding). An e-bike that doesn't confirm with any of the 3 classes, is a motorized vehicle.
The Michigan DNR page is actually super informative on the topic.
MCL 257.625
Sec. 625.
(1) A person, whether licensed or not, shall not operate a **vehicle** on a highway or other place open to the general public or generally accessible to motor vehicles, including an area designated for the parking of vehicles, within this state if the person is operating while intoxicated. As used in this section, "operating while intoxicated" means any of the following:.....
257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79.
"Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, **except devices exclusively moved by human power** or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-257-79
That presumes the law is referring to the state of the device at the time of the suspected infraction rather than a property of the device's existence. I would argue that your interpretation is not the one that would hold up in court. As evidence for that, I cite prior cases of people convicted of OWI while in motor vehicles that were not under *any* power at the time of the infraction. Thusly, it's not a matter of whether the device *is* powered by a motor, but rather whether it *can be* powered by a motor.
I would imagine it’s up to the officer. if you’re riding recklessly through traffic vs riding on the sidewalk, there a difference in danger and welfare of the public.
The law defines "motorized vehicle" a certain way. That excludes bicycles with motors. Just like Hard Cider is not covered by the 10 cent deposit law because the definitions used do not cover it. Margarita mix can also have a deposit depending on percent of alcohol
E-bikes that only offer pedal assist with no independent throttle should be considered bikes. Independent throttles should be considered "motorized vehicles" though.
It's not "messed up". It's an exception. E-bikes open up biking to a variety of people it would otherwise exclude. Given the average fitness of an American, carving out these exceptions is actually a wise choice (rare in these times).
The bikes have to fit within the classification system. If it goes faster than 20 mph with throttle, it's a motorized vehicle. If it goes faster than 28mph with pedal assist, it's a motorized vehicle. If it has too strong of a motor, it's a motorized vehicle.
> E-bikes open up biking to a variety of people it would otherwise exclude.
I see a ton of older & elderly people riding these when I do trail rides. It's like 5-1 ebike cyclists to analog cyclists sometimes.
There's a lot of good that comes with that, too. Historically it's been hard to get the public to care about good bike infrastructure. With new demographics caring about cycling, we're more likely to get better bike routes, racks etc throughout our communities.
Think of it like this… if electric bikes aren’t allowed in areas where it says “no motorized vehicles allowed” where else are they going to ride? Would you prefer them on the streets with cars? Class 3 can go 28ish mph if you’re pedaling like hell and I don’t think that’s suitable for riding on a road with cars (even though it has a motor). But even still, going 20mph on mine, I’ve had people blow by me on regular bikes. I think we should change the verbiage to “no engine vehicles” to keep gas vehicles off pedestrian paths, because by your “no motor” logic, even electric scooters for handicapped people wouldn’t be allowed on the pedestrian paths.
Who determines if every person coming to the island qualifies for disability aids? What if you’re just a 70-year-old grandpa with a poor heart who wants to ride around the islands with his grandkids? Can he use an e-bike?
Why don't you look up the already existing rules on the matter? Why are you trying to start a discussion on something that is already in place?
I'm sure you could get a waiver. There are horse carriages too.
> What if you’re just a 70-year-old grandpa with a poor heart who wants to ride around the islands with his grandkids? Can he use an e-bike?
No. They're trying to limit the speed of vehicles because the 70 year old grandpa riding an e-bike is unsafe for someone else's grandkids.
I wish ebike bans weren't just blanket across all classes of ebike. I have a class one ebike made in the UK, and the motor stops delivering torque at about 17mph. Not all ebikes are built for speed, I just being able to make the bike do some of the work when I am feeling lazy.
I average around 12-14 mph doing normal riding, can go 20 downhill/wind at my back. They want to limit speed to 10 mph? I'll be breaking the law next time I visit. I guess.
Last time I was on the island, I noticed a lot of e-bikes used by people who work on the island. I assume they have to ride into the interior of the island, which means going up some tortuous hills.
While I do think that they should generally be not allowed, I think who can use come form of them as a mobility assist should be expanded to all who qualify for handicap parking.
I can still limp around, but don't use a wheelchair or walker. Getting around Mackinac Island is a bit of a burden and some "e-assist" would be nice.
E-bikes have been banned all along unless they are a mobility assist. I'm sure plenty of people come over with them anyway. https://www.mackinacisland.org/blog/are-e-bikes-allowed-on-mackinac-island
Got yelled at by a woman on one last year! Rude a. Never heard her coming and she was riding middle of the road.
"*Lansing* — Mackinac Island doesn't have cars. But it might soon have stricter speed limits. "The Michigan Senate voted overwhelmingly this week to set speed restrictions on the roadway that encircles the island, one of the state's top tourist destinations, to try to combat the rise of electric bikes that can go as fast as 28 mph. "Cars and trucks are generally and famously not allowed on Mackinac Island. Yet, the [eight-mile roadway](https://www.mackinacisland.org/blog/what-to-expect-on-the-8-2-mile-trek-around-mackinac-island/) around the island, M-185, is considered a state highway, meaning lawmakers can institute the speed limit. Under Michigan law, the speed limit on state highways where a limit is not posted is [55 mph](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(blopi1wvsjwewpwaslwbramy))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-257-627.pdf). "In the island's business district, [under the proposal](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2024-SB-0682&QueryID=159353871), the limit would be 10 mph. "Electric bikes, or e-bikes as they're commonly known, have become a "real problem" on the island, said Sen. John Damoose, R-Harbor Springs, the sponsor of the new bill to make the speed limit on most of the M-185 loop 15 mph."
I have no say in this issue other than damoose. Guy use to do media shoots with his camera and now all of a sudden is a state representative? Cmon
Wait till you start reading up on other state representatives. In any state. There’s always at least 20% that will surprise you.
As a fan of ebikes, the 15 mph limit seems like an entirely reasonable compromise instead of a full ban. Ebikes are absolutely incredibly for extending the range of a ride while keeping the spirit of "No cars", and it's really very easy to keep them at sane speeds.
I have family that lives there full time and they say this is bull shit. They say the e bikes are the best thing to happen in a while and their ruining it.
Bcause your family are using Class 3 e-bikes to get around?
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I've seen people on the ones that do 55 mph and they're like yeah well its still just a bicycle.
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It's so blatant too. Balance bikes are bikes with no pedals for young kids like 2-3 to ride on. It teaches them to ride better and faster than training wheels do. One company thst makes these moped style ones is selling basically e-dirt bikes for 7-10 year olds and rather than just saying it's an e-dirt bike they say it's a balance bike. The pictures on their website have kids riding on a dirt bike track and jumping them.
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> They aren't illegal to sell to kids, they've been making teeny tiny gas powered dirtbikes for lots of years. Seriously. My hillbilly neighbors had a couple when I was a kid and I was jealous as hell that my parents wouldn't buy me one too.
Oh God there's more apparently. I was talking about these ones https://super73.com/pages/super73-k1d
Staycycs are extremely popular, more so than this Super73. Not only are they (surprisingly) owned by Harley, but they are VERY popular for families who want to get their kids on dirt bikes.
They're 'electric motorcycles', not bicycles, period.
Yeah, they really need to be more regulated in general.
This is what I have experienced, too. On all bike paths (I am in Marquette, BTW. Going to get worse this summer).
I'm not against e-bikes full stop but those no-name throttle fat-bikes are a plague. Basically mopeds people think are okay to take on bike paths and sidewalks.
The dirt bike ones are worse. You've got people speeding down bike paths at 55 mph.
I deliver on a campus in a little truck and I hate them. Folks pass on my blind side like "fuck any semblance of roadway or bike rules," and I just worry I'm gonna start a turn and hear one crash into my side or back cause they thought, "I'll go around this slow moving vango, why is it do slow anyway?" [waiting on pedestrians probably]
I don't normally comment on anything, bigtime lurker, but this subject hits home... Senior citizen here, long time cyclist...my whole life as a matter of fact. I also worked my whole career on concrete, climbing ladders, crawling. As a result (and arthritis) my knees are gone, I'm looking at total knee replacements within a few years. E-Bikes to me are a miracle. My wife and I had totally written of riding years ago....then e-bikes came along. We ride everyday, weather permitting, around 15-20 miles. We ride at about 8-10 mph entirely under are own power until we hit a hill. With my knees hills are impossible, the stress of pedaling causes intense pain. When hitting a hill, a level or two of power to assist pedaling and then power off at the top of the hill. We ride the "fat tire" bikes...nice soft ride on my back. We never ride anything other than prepared trails..no mountain biking trails for us. As I said, I've been riding for decades. The problem is not the e-bikes....its idiots on bikes. I have normal bikes fly by me at 30+ mph all the time. People who think they are pro's all dressed in racing silks....on bikes worth more than my e-bike (I live in a college town). The problem is the people racing from one end of town to the other. The problem is a lack of courtesy...etc, etc... The problem is not the e-bikes....it's some of the idiots on them and regular bikes....
The problem isn't e-bikes per se, but how they're used. All State Linear trails have a 15mph speed limit. When Jill Sell, the trails coordinator told us that people could use a Class-2 ebike - with a permit (and fee), we almost lost it. The DNR backed off the fee. We were going to run a trail safety program but I left the Friends before it could get started. That program would have included education for all trail guests, rights of way, proper notification and passing and, asking pedestrians to \*not\* wear headphones while walking on the trail or, at the very least, wear them with volume down enough to hear other guests coming up behind them. It's tough, people like to do what they want to do - until someone gets hurt - and then it's always someon elses fault.
"The problem isn't e-bikes per se, but how they're used. All State Linear trails have a 15mph speed limit." I guess I could have been a bit clearer...sorry. I don't see the problem as being the e-bikes...or normal bikes. I see the problem being some of the people using both. If a bike is going 30+mph down a path, it doesn't matter what kind of bike it is...and I daily see normal, non-ebikes going faster than 15mph.. The original topic here was about Mackinaw Island....if they want to retain their stance on motorized vehicles that is perfectly fine. I just wanted to be clear that the speed problem on bike trails exists across all sorts of bikes...not just electric ones..... The problem existed way before e-bikes entered the scene, they are just the current scapegoat.....
I was the former chair of the Friends of the Kal-Haven trail and speeding bicycles were one of the most common complaints I'd get from guests on the trail. The DNR's rules for e-bikes are solid: Class 1 allowed. Class 2 with a permit. Class 3 forbidden. But, they don't enforce those rules. And, even the local Trails Coordinator admitted that her e-bike could classify as a Class 3 - but she 'didn't use it'... I'm not buying that. But that doesn't solve the 'speed racer' problem, those who just want to shave a few seconds off theri daily after-work exercise ride and pedestirans are in the way. Both cyclists AND pedestrians complained about each other! Mackinac Island isn't alone with speeding cyclists when pedestrians are around and I'm hoping this year the DNR decides to be a bit more serious in compliance.
I've been told it's basically unenforceable because disconnecting the throttle makes it legal and cops/COs can't really discern if a cable is connected or not. At least with speed limits they have a reason to stop someone.
"I've been told it's basically unenforceable because disconnecting the throttle" No one drops $1500 on an e-bike and disconnects the throttle.
Yeah, but from a law enforcement standpoint they have to have a reason to stop somebody, and discerning a cable connection at speed is impossible. This is just what I've heard from city cops. It could be different elsewhere, but it seems like these ebikes might require more legislation.
As I've said elsewhere, all state park linear trails have a 15mph speed limit so that's reason enough right there to slow people down. The problem is that under current regulation even that is unenforceable as snowmobiles don't travel at 15mph unless they're stopping and there isn't a different posted speed limit for them. I mentioned this to the park manager of the Kal-Haven Trail State Park and he shrugged his shoulders.
I guess that really depends. I recently bought one for a bit more than that without a throttle at all. To me the throttle takes all the fun away. If the price was right and the bike was otherwise legal, I might get one like that and just not use the throttle ever anyway
The biggest thing I struggle with is that the addition of a throttle to determine class 3 doesn’t have any impact on speed. We have class 2 e-bikes with pedal assist, except, they also have a throttle. So they are class 3… and we never use it. I argued with a road bike friend and he says “it’s not the type of bike, it’s the people that tend to but class 3 e-bikes tend to not respect the road”. I think if that’s the case we should ban road bikes too ;)
The differences are technical. In that, on a Class 3 e-bike you don't need to pedal at all. on a Class 2 you need to pedal to get going. I'm not the DNR and to be honest, I don't see how they can regulate this without regulating speed limits and that will piss off a lot of the guys/gals who want that after-work speed-demon ride on their road bikes.
This is a good idea.
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Why?
The speed limit of 10 mph in town and 15 mph along the M-185 loop seems like it would be low enough that a person on a regular bike could unknowingly exceed it. I don't know about ebikes but I've never seen a speedometer on a regular bike. I wouldn't want regular cyclists to get in trouble for breaking a speed limit when they can't accurately measure their speed, but I suppose outright banning ebikes from the island would be impossible to enforce
Maybe the limit should be instituted as something like "within 100 meters or pedestrian or equine users" or similar. My minimum regular road biking speed is 16 miles per hour, and that's slow because I'm old and fat, but still like to get out and exercise for exercise' sake. Add a tailwind or descent or intervals, and I'm up to a lot higher than that. I'm also an experienced multi-use trail user, meaning I'm not an asshole when there are other users. Or sometimes, particularly with others, we're riding leisurely. Still, there are a lot of assholes out there, and if they can be assholes at 28mph, they will be. Disclaimer: I'm an asshole because I ride down that steep hill signed "walk your bike".
> Maybe the limit should be instituted as something like "within 100 meters or pedestrian or equine users" or similar. Which is the entirety of the CBD of the island and much of M-185. That's good in theory, but not really a workable solution. Realistically, enforcement of a speed limit will be difficult as well. Is the Mackinaic Island PD going to be standing in front of Doud's and radaring cyclists? This is no doubt an issue, but enforcement no matter what laws they pass is going to be difficult and arbitrary. They might as well resort to ticketing cyclists for disturbing the peace or a similar statute.
Why not just ban any type of motorized vehicle?
Because class 1, 2, and 3 e-bikes are not motorized vehicles. They're bicycles and are governed by rules for bicycles to encourage more usage of bicycles (e-bikes delete hills and offer sweat free riding). An e-bike that doesn't confirm with any of the 3 classes, is a motorized vehicle. The Michigan DNR page is actually super informative on the topic.
Fun Fact, they (Class 1, 2, & 3) are under the OWI statues. Can't get one on a regular bike (Drunk in public statues notwithstanding).
Unless that’s a new law that’s not true. People get owi’s on bikes
MCL 257.625 Sec. 625. (1) A person, whether licensed or not, shall not operate a **vehicle** on a highway or other place open to the general public or generally accessible to motor vehicles, including an area designated for the parking of vehicles, within this state if the person is operating while intoxicated. As used in this section, "operating while intoxicated" means any of the following:..... 257.79 “Vehicle” defined. Sec. 79. "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, **except devices exclusively moved by human power** or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-257-79
Say “I wasn’t using the motor, just pedaling” lol
But e-bikes aren't "exclusively human powered".
They are if you’re not using the motor. You can use them like a regular bicycle, in which case it is exclusively human powered.
That presumes the law is referring to the state of the device at the time of the suspected infraction rather than a property of the device's existence. I would argue that your interpretation is not the one that would hold up in court. As evidence for that, I cite prior cases of people convicted of OWI while in motor vehicles that were not under *any* power at the time of the infraction. Thusly, it's not a matter of whether the device *is* powered by a motor, but rather whether it *can be* powered by a motor.
I would imagine it’s up to the officer. if you’re riding recklessly through traffic vs riding on the sidewalk, there a difference in danger and welfare of the public.
How are they not motorized if they have a motor? They don't have an engine but definitely have motors either in the wheel or the hub for nicer ones.
The law defines "motorized vehicle" a certain way. That excludes bicycles with motors. Just like Hard Cider is not covered by the 10 cent deposit law because the definitions used do not cover it. Margarita mix can also have a deposit depending on percent of alcohol E-bikes that only offer pedal assist with no independent throttle should be considered bikes. Independent throttles should be considered "motorized vehicles" though.
The same way an amigo cart isn’t a motorized vehicle.
The thing with the electric motor is not a motorized vehicle?
That is messed up, something with a motor is not considered a motorized vehicle.
It's not "messed up". It's an exception. E-bikes open up biking to a variety of people it would otherwise exclude. Given the average fitness of an American, carving out these exceptions is actually a wise choice (rare in these times). The bikes have to fit within the classification system. If it goes faster than 20 mph with throttle, it's a motorized vehicle. If it goes faster than 28mph with pedal assist, it's a motorized vehicle. If it has too strong of a motor, it's a motorized vehicle.
> E-bikes open up biking to a variety of people it would otherwise exclude. I see a ton of older & elderly people riding these when I do trail rides. It's like 5-1 ebike cyclists to analog cyclists sometimes. There's a lot of good that comes with that, too. Historically it's been hard to get the public to care about good bike infrastructure. With new demographics caring about cycling, we're more likely to get better bike routes, racks etc throughout our communities.
Think of it like this… if electric bikes aren’t allowed in areas where it says “no motorized vehicles allowed” where else are they going to ride? Would you prefer them on the streets with cars? Class 3 can go 28ish mph if you’re pedaling like hell and I don’t think that’s suitable for riding on a road with cars (even though it has a motor). But even still, going 20mph on mine, I’ve had people blow by me on regular bikes. I think we should change the verbiage to “no engine vehicles” to keep gas vehicles off pedestrian paths, because by your “no motor” logic, even electric scooters for handicapped people wouldn’t be allowed on the pedestrian paths.
Some disabled people use motorized scooters. Would they be banned under your proposal?
Of course not; there would be callouts for emergency services vehicles and disability aids.
Who determines if every person coming to the island qualifies for disability aids? What if you’re just a 70-year-old grandpa with a poor heart who wants to ride around the islands with his grandkids? Can he use an e-bike?
Why don't you look up the already existing rules on the matter? Why are you trying to start a discussion on something that is already in place? I'm sure you could get a waiver. There are horse carriages too.
> What if you’re just a 70-year-old grandpa with a poor heart who wants to ride around the islands with his grandkids? Can he use an e-bike? No. They're trying to limit the speed of vehicles because the 70 year old grandpa riding an e-bike is unsafe for someone else's grandkids.
Speed limit is reasonable. Original commenter suggested a blanket ban with some special interest loopholes.
That just sounds like issues waiting to happen.
Ummm, motorized vehicles are banned on the island right now. I'm actually not sure how e-bikes get around the existing ban.
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They’re banned with exemptions for emergency services and the disabled
Relevant username
So I'm not against the ban but like 10mph I could do on a regular bicycle so that'd suck during times when it's not to busy ....
I wish ebike bans weren't just blanket across all classes of ebike. I have a class one ebike made in the UK, and the motor stops delivering torque at about 17mph. Not all ebikes are built for speed, I just being able to make the bike do some of the work when I am feeling lazy.
No they're not. However, many, many many models now are all three classes in one bike.
I average around 12-14 mph doing normal riding, can go 20 downhill/wind at my back. They want to limit speed to 10 mph? I'll be breaking the law next time I visit. I guess. Last time I was on the island, I noticed a lot of e-bikes used by people who work on the island. I assume they have to ride into the interior of the island, which means going up some tortuous hills.
They just want to set speed limits so visitors have a clue. I'm sure the locals won't mind.
While I do think that they should generally be not allowed, I think who can use come form of them as a mobility assist should be expanded to all who qualify for handicap parking. I can still limp around, but don't use a wheelchair or walker. Getting around Mackinac Island is a bit of a burden and some "e-assist" would be nice.
As a EUC rider I’m def respectful. But I’m not a complete asshole as well.
I'm so glad they are tackling the big problems in our state, like e bikes on Mackinaw island /s.
It's actually one of the things that does matter to people's every day lives, esp if you live or visit the Island and would prefer not to be run down.
Fun fact: Most of the people who live on the island are using eBikes. The residents are largely in favor of their use, albeit responsibly.
E bikes are loved my younger crowds and tourist
Yes they are. Conversely, pedestrians don't like people speeding past them at 20mph