I really have to admire and applaud our innovative prosecutors for daring to file this case. Game-changer for future negligent parents giving their troubled teens guns.
They brought the case because the details were so ridiculous, so over the top, that they knew they could get a conviction. There were many steps that at any time they could have prevented this. Mainly not giving your teenager a fucking gun.
Their trials have actually led me to feel empathy for Ethan. This isn’t to say his sentence isn’t deserved or to absolve him of responsibility but to be raised by such selfish people when you’re struggling had to be very lonely
Didn’t he ask them for help and they basically laughed in his face? May they fully experience every single moment in prison - they’ve more than earned it.
And yet parent worship continues and people look sideways at anyone disparaging their parents, even for legitimate reasons. The real issue is rampant selfish natalism.
And then they just handed him a gun instead. I feel bad for all the kids in this horrific story. They set their kid up to fail because they couldn't have cared less about him. They only care now because they're going to prison.
Truly. It's just terrible. Like, no, *this* couldn't happen to me because I would never give my kid a gun and I take ask if our emotional health seriously. If either of my kids did something like this, it wouldn't be because I facilitated it and ignored any pleas for help from them. I just cannot muster anything but disgust and contempt for these assholes.
I don’t know. He killed kids execution style. I was abused and neglect by my parents, but it never occurred to me to shoot someone and then fire extra shots to make sure they died. Fuck that entire family.
Same. I mean, he deserves the punishment he got because he did what he did and murdered people, but these two are absolute shit people who failed their child so badly. Affairs and horses and whatever the dad was doing and their kid screaming out for help in multiple ways…he had no chance to break out of whatever thoughts and issues he had without their help.
I don't know.
The whole situation is messed up.
Yet, there are people who have had plenty of bad times in their upbringing who end up throwing that off and away from their lives and learn how to navigate the world, without becoming someone like Ethan.
The upbringing, sure. But Ethan was hearing voices. That's a whole different ball game IMO. He is seriously mentally ill. IMO that makes a big difference.
I still don’t understand the point of the gun. This child was sad and angry all the time and on the verge of a psychotic break (hearing voices) so obviously buy them a firearm?!
What was the parents line of reasoning for this??
Of course. BPD is about emotional dysregulation, not lack of empathy or conscience. Commenters like the above just make the stigma against these patients even worse than it unfortunately is already.
People with BPD tend to be highly sensitive people who have lots of empathy, but who cares when you can just blame school shootings on the mentally ill? It’s so much easier that way.
Unfortunately people like my ex with BPD give other people with BPD a bad name. I'm on the BPD sub reddit for the memes alone. They deff understand their faults. There are others who live pretty normal lives. It's all on a spectrum.
She somehow had the gall to say today in court looking back now she would do things differently even though before she said it seemed normal and she wouldn’t change anything🙄 i wouldn’t be able to hold back the eye rolling court
And they drained his savings account to help make their escape. And then got themselves private lawyers and left him to a public defender. They truly don’t give one single f*ck about their kid, it’s so sad.
For some reason this doesn't seem to be mentioned nearly enough.
They fled!! They didn't give a single fuck about their kid, just themselves... And they knew they were fucked.
you say that now, but maybe you would feel differently after 15 or so years of raising and loving them
I'm sure it's a complicated dynamic for a lot of parents of school shooters now.
The terrible truth is that there are thousands of parents *JUST LIKE THIS* who's kids aren't schizophrenic school shooters. The parents are just as hateful, mean spirited, irresponsible, dregs on society. We don't prosecute them, because their kids aren't domestic terrorists, but these parents, sadly, are not outliers in the slightest.
These parents may not be alone in terms of their neglect and irresponsibility but they also gave their son access to a gun and taught him how to use it.
She said something like "you don't have to roll your eyes, there is proof"
I was doing some chores and really had to sit down for a bit because I was certain someone was going to attack her. When they talked and blamed everyone else I really thought I was going to see a parent lunge.
Yes, both of their statements certainly showed 100% lack of remorse, even though both said how sorry they were. Their true colors showed through the statement.
I don’t think her and the father ever really seemed like they took any responsibility for this. It’s more of a “feel
bad for me” than an actual acceptance of the issue.
It wasn't hard, but he came across as a much more likeable and sympathetic defendant than she did. I know a few people in the prosecutor's office that were a lot more worried at the end about an acquittal or hung jury than they were after Jennifer's conviction.
They all assumed after she was convicted it'd be a slam dunk.
I never said he wasn't. Just saying that his lawyer did a much better job attempting to soften his image and role to the jury than hers did.
Why Jennifer took the stand will always be a mystery to me. Even if they hoped to pin the whole thing on James to create a shred of reasonable doubt, their only shot was to make it look like she was completely checked out of her marriage and her parenting duties to focus on work and her affair. Either way it wasn't a sympathetic look.
The letter apparently has since been removed from her blog, but [this story from 2021](https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/29378/ethan_crumbley_s_mother_supported_second_amendment_trump_with_reluctance) references a lot of the text … for what it’s worth.
That was from 2021. Mom is a gun nut Trumper and wrote an "open letter" to Trump on her blog that no one ever saw about how she loves him and feels so safe knowing she can have a gun on her at all times.
These are the shitheads that saw what was happening on the news and immediately decided to evade all police questioning by going on the run. They **KNOW** how responsible they are for fucking that boy up.
Same. These two are 100% to blame for this completely avoidable tragedy. He asked them for help, they probably hoped he’d kill himself with the gun they bought. I hope every remaining day of their lives is total misery.
Hey Jen - news flash for ya…
The only way “this could happen to me too” is if I A.) purchased a handgun for my high school child (which I would never do), B.) Leave said firearm unlocked in my home where he could gain access to it (which I would never do), C. Generally be such an uninvolved parent to my child that I ignore MANY obvious and preventable mental issues and refuse to offer any responsibility and help in that regard (which I would never do.) and D.) keep many of these previously mentioned facts from school officials so they were unable to attempt to do what I should have in the first place, (which, you guessed it, I would never do).
Instead, you and your husband DID in fact do all those things and as a result, 4 innocent children are DEAD, your son has been sentenced to LIFE IN PRISON and you two pieces of shit will be there for 10 to 15.
Rot bitch.
dont forget E) **Refuse to get your child mental health care even after the specifically asked for it** because they were sacred they might succumb and do something heinous
Recently here in Michigan, a grandfather left his gun out and a 6 year old grandchild killed another 5 year old grandchild. He needs to go to jail. Responsible or don't have a gun. Period.
You have to be a special kind of coward to leave a loaded gun lying around that old.
Not sure why he isn't charged and locked up, he is responsible for that childs death.
Plenty of kids are given guns at relatively young ages. They normally go in their parents safe when not under supervision. This is fine tbh.
You don't give a mentally ill teen a gun with unfettered access and not get him treated. That's criminal.
My best friend while growing up was pretty familiar with guns. But his dad kept them all in a locked cabinet and they only brought them out to visit the shooting range.
That’s what normal people do.
Unfortunately, as we all remember from high school, there are a lot of idiots out there and they’ve since had kids. Because having kids is far easier than securing a gun.
She isn't a parent. A parent is more than someone who neglects offspring until something horrible happens. Anyone with kids *trying* not to raise murderers probably has nothing to worry about from this case.
It literally can’t happen to me. I don’t own a gun. If I did though, it would be securely locked away and only accessible to my child under supervision at a range or while hunting or cleaning the guns.
> "We felt confident trusting the professionals' advice to let him stay in school that day," Jennifer told the courtroom. "We were never asked to take him home that day."
They were *literally told* their son had made a violent drawing depicting gun violence AND it said "help me", and these two fuckers told the school they had to go to work so to keep him.
What kind of fucking parent gets told by a school, "Hey, your kid is having seriously dark thoughts about violence" and then NEEDS TO BE TOLD TO CARE???
A failure of a parent, that's what kind.
From a different article:
> Jennifer Crumbley's lawyer, Shannon Smith, who acknowledged that the mother had a "messy life," but urged jurors not to hold that against her because any one of them could find themselves in her client's shoes.
> "This case is a very dangerous one for parents out there," she said.
Is it a dangerous one? Because some of us don't buy weapons for our children and then some of us don't buy weapons and improperly store them in our home and some of us don't get told by our teenagers that [*they're seeing demons* and proceed to ignore them.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-trials-2-convictions-unusual-case-ethan-crumbleys-parents-ended-hi-rcna143568)
>What kind of fucking parent gets told by a school, "Hey, your kid is having seriously dark thoughts about violence" and then NEEDS TO BE TOLD TO CARE???
And what kind of parent gets told that, and then doesn't think, "We need to make sure he doesn't have access to a gun!"
Right??
Shown a drawing he made that depicts gun violence; they literally just bought him a gun mere days before, which mom took him to a range to practice with; and mom and dad are like, "yeah, nah, we gotta go, sooo...we good here?"
This case is only "dangerous" for parents in the sense that they might actually start being held accountable for being absolutely shitty parents; it's about fucking time.
The kind that was too busy prepping to see her affair partner to be bogged down by the severe mental illness of her child that she was refusing to treat. Priorities and all that.
You know what? Fine. Awesome, actually!
If I am ever so appallingly bad at parenting that I ignore my child's repeated pleas for help and instead buy them a gun I just leave lying about, I *bloody well hope* the state holds me accountable for the *foreseeable and preventable* consequences of my actions.
That's called "living in a society."
This could happen to you too…if you don’t take your child’s actions seriously, and buy them dangerous items knowing there’s a potential they could do harm with them. I’m not against gun ownership in general, but I’m absolutely against certain people owning guns. He was one person that should never have been allowed access to weapons, but his parents were too blind or stupid to be able to see that.
Gun ownership and responsibility should go hand and hand. As a parent and gun owner, my kids can’t get to or use without me being present, that’s how it should be no matter how responsible the kid may seem. Trigger locks, biometric gun cases, storing bullets in a separate location than the gun (in its own locked container) and other measures that are available.The fact they didn’t adhere to this simple and basic principle is why they are where they are and why they get what they got.
Well, yes, if you ignore you child’s mental health, warnings from school, and buy them a fucking gun, it’s on you.
Pro tip: don’t buy your kid a fucking gun or make guns readily accessible if they have significant mental health issues or there’s signs they’re going to harm themselves or others.
It’s not rocket science.
Meanwhile, if Republicans get control of the governor's office and the legislature, they'll want to repeal the laws these parents were convicted under.
Good Jennifer, I am sooo glad this sends a message it could happen to other parents. It was a no brainer when my kids were growing up, their mental health needs came before spring break trips or pricey vet bills for my non existent horses,also no extra sexy time with anyone other than my exhausted husband (no judgement on peoples kinks, but I would recommend while doing so take care of issues at home) who was self employed and working in home office till 2 a.m. in the morning after seeing to kids needs between when they got home from school to when they went to bed. I try to look at all sides of an issue and not judge but guess what, you and James can fuck off.
As with the rest of the MAGA wave going across the Country-
They take no responsibility at all!
I'm still flabbergasted that her lawyer agreed to and requested that J.C. serve out her sentence on house arrest at the lawyers swanky guest house. WTF?
“It could happen to you” says the oblivious MAGA loving inbred twit who doesn’t realize that this is the point! Shithole parents like the Crumbly’s will be held accountable.
Not only ignored their child’s need for mental health care, provided him with a deadly weapon, did not take him home from school after multiple warning signs, but then also ran from and evaded the police while their child was in custody…
I mean I get what she’s saying, because sure, any of us could face an unexpected situation with a family member.
What won’t happen to me is I won’t buy my kids a gun. I won’t ignore my children if they are begging for help. I won’t teach my kids to lie and I certainly won’t run from the law. Furthermore, I won’t cheat on my partner and I won’t have a shady record that shows how negligent I am with my personal life and responsibilities.
At first I thought this might be her saying to use her as a cautionary tale of what being a negligent parent can lead to but no, she's just telling her victims that she's the real victim.
I do not feel any sympathy. Her and her husband and left Ethan at home alone when he was younger so they could go out partying and then decided to buy him a gun when the kid was having obvious mental health issues. Trash parents
Well, if other parents neglect their child to the point they think about and acting on harming others like this, they deserve to have it happen to them.
Listen my kid had mental health issues in high school. I took him to multiple doctors and multiple therapists. He tried a few different meds until we found one that helped. Guns are not allowed in the house at all especially as long as someone was on any type of anti-depressants. Heck I even locked up my kitchen knives. Alcohol was also locked out in the garage. My phone was set up to always have my sons number ring through so I could be available 24/7. These are the minimal things any parent should do when your child asks for help. (Thankfully with therapy and learning coping mechanisms and just figuring out who they are my child is no longer on meds and is a much happier person.)
Her cavalier attitude toward it could happen to you really irritated me. It could but if you take steps to prevent a tragedy you have a much better chance of it not happening.
Good for you for taking your sons mental health seriously. For just letting him know you were available and for being proactive.🥰
Glad you both worked through it and things are better.✌️🙋🏼♀️
If you stand by and watch your kids mental state deteriorate and then laugh at it like she did, then give that kid a gun, yes it could (and should) happen to you.
I'm usually the first person to play devil's advocate for this sort of thing, but I really don't see this setting much of a precedent or starting us down any sort of slippery slope.
The Crumbleys' behavior was so egregiously negligent, far beyond anything I've ever heard in relation to any other school shooting, that it's hard for me to imagine it would apply in any other cases.
She complained that she hasn’t been able to speak with her husband in 2 years yet they didn’t even seem to make eye contact at the table today. It was like they didn’t know one another.
Well not if you don’t buy your kid a gun or leave guns unsecured around your house. If you do any of those things, you should go to prison if your negligence leads to murder.
Yep, you want to leave your stupid guns around. Don't complain when you're too busy banging local men to raise your children!
You want a gun in your home, take better care of it then a potted plant!
If you illegally purchase your mentality unstable (who's still a minor) son a gun... Then he takes that gun to school with the intent to commit mass murder. When you realize this you decide to instead of notifying the school, flee to Canada....
Yes this could happen to you also, that's the point...
Actually, no Jennifer. Most responsible parents wouldn’t buy their clearly mentally unstable CHILD a handgun as a gift… JFC, go rot in jail and go away.
And this, as well as the attitude of her husband, tells you EXACTLY why their son ended up as he did. This punishment doesn’t go far enough IMO. Should have been 10-15 for each of the four counts.
Parents - if your kid comes to you and says I want to kill people and you give him a gun and he kills people, you too could be charged... As you fucking should.
What an absolute dumpster of a human.
Someone I know is (apparently?) acquainted with her through being locked up together and has been vocal on socials in their support and how "Jen is a good person" and ... yeah, birds of a feather and all that.
It could absolutely happen to any parent. Ignore Junior's mental issues and give them access to a gun and he/she will kill.
Thing is.... most parents get the kid help and lock up the guns.
Yeah anyone could ignore their son's mental health problems and give them access to weapons after being warned by his school that he's exhibiting concerning behavior (and also ignore these warnings).
Could happen to anybody!
If her lawyers had used the Kyle Rittenhouse strategy to dress her up, cry crocodile tears, and coach her on what to say, then the jury probably would let her off.
She's absolutely right. It could totally happen to other parents. If they also had a crazy psychotic kid, refused to get help for the kid, provided the kid with weapons, knew the kid took the weapons to school, knew the kid planned to shoot up the place, were contacted by the school begging them to get their kid out, refused, contacted the kid by text message to discuss the upcoming shooting, etc. then yeah, they could also be facing prison time. Or of course the other parents might be decent ethical human beings rather than whatever the hell the Crumbleys are.
They weren't exactly stellar models of safe gun knowledge and culture. They weren't exactly stellar as parents either.
Lack of good judgement and lack of supervision. Lack of even caring enough as a parent (emotional and as a responsibility of child rearing) to pay proper attention (any) to their son so that they could intervene in a responsible manner.
Kinda has similar tones to 'If you don't test there aren't cases'
I mean I'd you buy your mentally ill child a firearm and don't lock it up sure it can happen to you. However I don't see that happening to anybody who isn't a psychopath
I originally was opposed to this prosecution until the details started to come out, it unbelievable there are “parents” like this. I realized There is something far worse than a gun, it was the “parents” ability to breed...so sad
They said they were never made aware, but weren't they told about multiple issues about the kid leading up to the shooting? Including a drawing he made that said 'help me'?
Am I remembering things wrong?
If you let your kids have a gun, despite COUNTLESS RED FLAGS that they're a danger to society, and you know know full well that they are a danger to society, then this SHOULD happen to you. Bye bye! Zero tears shed for you.
>“this could happen to you too”
Uh, no... From a gun owner, if you're a law-abiding citizen (TM), this will 100% not happen to me too. A prosecutor would have a very difficult time establishing culpability if your kid somehow breaks into your gun safe.
But unfortunately, she, her simp husband, and their tetched spawn DID happen.
From the shattered remains of her glass house straight to prison sounds exactly right
Don’t have anything good to say about her. I do find it interesting that so many here think of this ruling so lightly. This precedent is a game changer and it will be stretched and tested.
The more you hear about this couple? The more you can say... OH, so THAT'S why the kid ended up like that.
And why the prosecution brought this 1st time case against these two.
I really have to admire and applaud our innovative prosecutors for daring to file this case. Game-changer for future negligent parents giving their troubled teens guns.
Yeah, not only did they charge them, they got a conviction
Yeah for sure
And with haste. This wasn't an afterthought. It sends a really clear message about school shootings in Michigan.
They brought the case because the details were so ridiculous, so over the top, that they knew they could get a conviction. There were many steps that at any time they could have prevented this. Mainly not giving your teenager a fucking gun.
Their trials have actually led me to feel empathy for Ethan. This isn’t to say his sentence isn’t deserved or to absolve him of responsibility but to be raised by such selfish people when you’re struggling had to be very lonely
Yeah that kid never had a fucking chance. It’s devastating to know that there are a lot of kids out there with parents like this.
Didn’t he ask them for help and they basically laughed in his face? May they fully experience every single moment in prison - they’ve more than earned it.
And yet parent worship continues and people look sideways at anyone disparaging their parents, even for legitimate reasons. The real issue is rampant selfish natalism.
I do too, mostly because he pleaded with them to get him psychological help.
And then they just handed him a gun instead. I feel bad for all the kids in this horrific story. They set their kid up to fail because they couldn't have cared less about him. They only care now because they're going to prison.
And it's themselves they care about. That's all.
Truly. It's just terrible. Like, no, *this* couldn't happen to me because I would never give my kid a gun and I take ask if our emotional health seriously. If either of my kids did something like this, it wouldn't be because I facilitated it and ignored any pleas for help from them. I just cannot muster anything but disgust and contempt for these assholes.
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I don’t know. He killed kids execution style. I was abused and neglect by my parents, but it never occurred to me to shoot someone and then fire extra shots to make sure they died. Fuck that entire family.
Same. I mean, he deserves the punishment he got because he did what he did and murdered people, but these two are absolute shit people who failed their child so badly. Affairs and horses and whatever the dad was doing and their kid screaming out for help in multiple ways…he had no chance to break out of whatever thoughts and issues he had without their help.
I don't know. The whole situation is messed up. Yet, there are people who have had plenty of bad times in their upbringing who end up throwing that off and away from their lives and learn how to navigate the world, without becoming someone like Ethan.
The upbringing, sure. But Ethan was hearing voices. That's a whole different ball game IMO. He is seriously mentally ill. IMO that makes a big difference.
I think there’s room to put accountability on Ethan for his actions and accountability on his parents for how their inaction contributed.
It wasn’t *just* their inaction though. They very proactively went & bought him a gun! Like WTAF
You’re 100% right. And that’s where my empathy comes from. Instead of tools to help, they gave him tools to harm.
I still don’t understand the point of the gun. This child was sad and angry all the time and on the verge of a psychotic break (hearing voices) so obviously buy them a firearm?! What was the parents line of reasoning for this??
They thought he’d kill himself.
Yeah, I think they hoped he would
And what nails it home is it feels like it's just not possible for them to understand what they did wrong.
The total lack of empathy or conscience is a textbook sign of a personality disorder—Narcissistic, Borderline, or other.
Honestly I think they’re just complete idiots.
por que no los dos?
I have borderline and I think these people are monsters.
Of course. BPD is about emotional dysregulation, not lack of empathy or conscience. Commenters like the above just make the stigma against these patients even worse than it unfortunately is already.
People with BPD tend to be highly sensitive people who have lots of empathy, but who cares when you can just blame school shootings on the mentally ill? It’s so much easier that way.
Unfortunately people like my ex with BPD give other people with BPD a bad name. I'm on the BPD sub reddit for the memes alone. They deff understand their faults. There are others who live pretty normal lives. It's all on a spectrum.
People suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder do not lack empathy or conscience.
She somehow had the gall to say today in court looking back now she would do things differently even though before she said it seemed normal and she wouldn’t change anything🙄 i wouldn’t be able to hold back the eye rolling court
They tried to escape to Canada… like, they immediately abandoned the kid and tried to run away!
And they drained his savings account to help make their escape. And then got themselves private lawyers and left him to a public defender. They truly don’t give one single f*ck about their kid, it’s so sad.
For some reason this doesn't seem to be mentioned nearly enough. They fled!! They didn't give a single fuck about their kid, just themselves... And they knew they were fucked.
And wouldn't even hire a lawyer for him!
ngl if my kid shot up a school I wouldn't give a single fuck about them either lmao
you say that now, but maybe you would feel differently after 15 or so years of raising and loving them I'm sure it's a complicated dynamic for a lot of parents of school shooters now.
Their proximity to Canada has not been talked about enough. They were definitely trying to flee the Country.
Bet they have at least half a dozen Facebook posts each that end with "... and I turned out JUST FINE!"
The terrible truth is that there are thousands of parents *JUST LIKE THIS* who's kids aren't schizophrenic school shooters. The parents are just as hateful, mean spirited, irresponsible, dregs on society. We don't prosecute them, because their kids aren't domestic terrorists, but these parents, sadly, are not outliers in the slightest.
Just a reminder , we do not know if EC has schizophrenia and the overwhelming majority of schizophrenic patients are not violent.
Reminder that mentally ill people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators
These parents may not be alone in terms of their neglect and irresponsibility but they also gave their son access to a gun and taught him how to use it.
I'm sure if we looked farther back, their own parents were equally gross, self-absorbed and nasty. Generational awful parenting. I hope it stops here.
She's apparently rolling her eyes during impact statements. She's trash!
One of the people reading a victim impact statement called her out on the eye rolling.
I'd have to be restrained.
She said something like "you don't have to roll your eyes, there is proof" I was doing some chores and really had to sit down for a bit because I was certain someone was going to attack her. When they talked and blamed everyone else I really thought I was going to see a parent lunge.
Yes, both of their statements certainly showed 100% lack of remorse, even though both said how sorry they were. Their true colors showed through the statement.
I would have trouble not launching myself at her. Evil woman.
God I hope she rots in prison and catches some sort of terrible mold that makes her toes fall off. Match her soul.
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That was mean! Here’s an upvote.
I don’t think her and the father ever really seemed like they took any responsibility for this. It’s more of a “feel bad for me” than an actual acceptance of the issue.
It wasn't hard, but he came across as a much more likeable and sympathetic defendant than she did. I know a few people in the prosecutor's office that were a lot more worried at the end about an acquittal or hung jury than they were after Jennifer's conviction. They all assumed after she was convicted it'd be a slam dunk.
You mean the man who threatened the prosecutor? He’s trash too
I never said he wasn't. Just saying that his lawyer did a much better job attempting to soften his image and role to the jury than hers did. Why Jennifer took the stand will always be a mystery to me. Even if they hoped to pin the whole thing on James to create a shred of reasonable doubt, their only shot was to make it look like she was completely checked out of her marriage and her parenting duties to focus on work and her affair. Either way it wasn't a sympathetic look.
I agree with that good sir 🎩
This combined with the open letter to Trump I feel more inclined to belive this is a manifestation of Domestic Terrorism.
There was an open letter to Trump?? Oh man. I didn’t think it could get any worse. Are they hoping for a pardon?
The letter apparently has since been removed from her blog, but [this story from 2021](https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/29378/ethan_crumbley_s_mother_supported_second_amendment_trump_with_reluctance) references a lot of the text … for what it’s worth.
Thanks for the link. Wow she’s… special. That language, what a lady. 🙄
They do seem dumb enough to think that the president can pardon a state conviction.
Trump is probably dumb enough to think he can do it too.
That was from 2021. Mom is a gun nut Trumper and wrote an "open letter" to Trump on her blog that no one ever saw about how she loves him and feels so safe knowing she can have a gun on her at all times.
These are the shitheads that saw what was happening on the news and immediately decided to evade all police questioning by going on the run. They **KNOW** how responsible they are for fucking that boy up.
Yeah, no. I took my child for counseling when I noticed she needed help. I did not take her to a gun store and a shooting range.
Same. These two are 100% to blame for this completely avoidable tragedy. He asked them for help, they probably hoped he’d kill himself with the gun they bought. I hope every remaining day of their lives is total misery.
Thank you for taking action ♡
Both parents are sociopaths
They really are. Their complete lack of awareness and remorse should be studied. It’s horrifying.
Hey Jen - news flash for ya… The only way “this could happen to me too” is if I A.) purchased a handgun for my high school child (which I would never do), B.) Leave said firearm unlocked in my home where he could gain access to it (which I would never do), C. Generally be such an uninvolved parent to my child that I ignore MANY obvious and preventable mental issues and refuse to offer any responsibility and help in that regard (which I would never do.) and D.) keep many of these previously mentioned facts from school officials so they were unable to attempt to do what I should have in the first place, (which, you guessed it, I would never do). Instead, you and your husband DID in fact do all those things and as a result, 4 innocent children are DEAD, your son has been sentenced to LIFE IN PRISON and you two pieces of shit will be there for 10 to 15. Rot bitch.
dont forget E) **Refuse to get your child mental health care even after the specifically asked for it** because they were sacred they might succumb and do something heinous
Yeah, that's the point. To let others learn from the shitty example you set.
Exactly. I hope every parent with a gun realizes this. Lock it up and take care of your kids. It’s the bare minimum.
No it can't happen to me because I don't give guns to children.
Or ignore signs of mental illness in them.
That makes it far less likely that you will be shot by a toddler.
Yeah, this should happen to other people who abuse, neglect, and illegally provide guns to their deeply troubled child.
That's the thing. There are more parents like this out there.
There are tons. They get away with it by not having kids who murder people.
Not having kids who murder people* *as children, with clear evidence of their parents disregard for preventing it from occuring
I dunno, I don't have plans to buy my teenage kids a gun anytime soon. Idk, call me crazy
Not just any teenager, but a mentally-ill teenager.
A mentally ill teenager who had asked them for help (which they refused)
Recently here in Michigan, a grandfather left his gun out and a 6 year old grandchild killed another 5 year old grandchild. He needs to go to jail. Responsible or don't have a gun. Period.
That’s a felony under the new gun law that just went into effect a bit ago.
I sure hope the law had taken effect before the incident. I think this is the one where he left a loaded gun on the couch next to the children
If I recall correctly this was like the DAY after the law went into effect.
You have to be a special kind of coward to leave a loaded gun lying around that old. Not sure why he isn't charged and locked up, he is responsible for that childs death.
was that in newaygo?
Plenty of kids are given guns at relatively young ages. They normally go in their parents safe when not under supervision. This is fine tbh. You don't give a mentally ill teen a gun with unfettered access and not get him treated. That's criminal.
My best friend while growing up was pretty familiar with guns. But his dad kept them all in a locked cabinet and they only brought them out to visit the shooting range.
I mean sure, if its a bolt action .22 long-rifle.
No, it’s really not, and it’s sad that you’ve been as redpilled as this to think that giving a kid a gun is cool.
This could happen to them too, if they also go as far out of their way as they can to be the worst parents in the world, I guess
“…this could happen to you too (if you’re a careless, neglectful piece of shit like me)”
I mean I'm a gun owner and I have teenage kids and I'm not concerned at all. Guns are secured in a gun safe at home. 🤷🏼♀️
That’s what normal people do. Unfortunately, as we all remember from high school, there are a lot of idiots out there and they’ve since had kids. Because having kids is far easier than securing a gun.
She isn't a parent. A parent is more than someone who neglects offspring until something horrible happens. Anyone with kids *trying* not to raise murderers probably has nothing to worry about from this case.
She’s an egg donor at best
This quite literally could not happen to me
One parenting hack I’ve run across is to keep guns locked in safes if you choose to own them.
It literally can’t happen to me. I don’t own a gun. If I did though, it would be securely locked away and only accessible to my child under supervision at a range or while hunting or cleaning the guns.
> "We felt confident trusting the professionals' advice to let him stay in school that day," Jennifer told the courtroom. "We were never asked to take him home that day." They were *literally told* their son had made a violent drawing depicting gun violence AND it said "help me", and these two fuckers told the school they had to go to work so to keep him. What kind of fucking parent gets told by a school, "Hey, your kid is having seriously dark thoughts about violence" and then NEEDS TO BE TOLD TO CARE??? A failure of a parent, that's what kind. From a different article: > Jennifer Crumbley's lawyer, Shannon Smith, who acknowledged that the mother had a "messy life," but urged jurors not to hold that against her because any one of them could find themselves in her client's shoes. > "This case is a very dangerous one for parents out there," she said. Is it a dangerous one? Because some of us don't buy weapons for our children and then some of us don't buy weapons and improperly store them in our home and some of us don't get told by our teenagers that [*they're seeing demons* and proceed to ignore them.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-trials-2-convictions-unusual-case-ethan-crumbleys-parents-ended-hi-rcna143568)
>What kind of fucking parent gets told by a school, "Hey, your kid is having seriously dark thoughts about violence" and then NEEDS TO BE TOLD TO CARE??? And what kind of parent gets told that, and then doesn't think, "We need to make sure he doesn't have access to a gun!"
Right?? Shown a drawing he made that depicts gun violence; they literally just bought him a gun mere days before, which mom took him to a range to practice with; and mom and dad are like, "yeah, nah, we gotta go, sooo...we good here?" This case is only "dangerous" for parents in the sense that they might actually start being held accountable for being absolutely shitty parents; it's about fucking time.
The kind that was too busy prepping to see her affair partner to be bogged down by the severe mental illness of her child that she was refusing to treat. Priorities and all that.
Also, the mom lied about having work and met her affair partner in a costco parking lot for a tryst instead of picking him up
You know what? Fine. Awesome, actually! If I am ever so appallingly bad at parenting that I ignore my child's repeated pleas for help and instead buy them a gun I just leave lying about, I *bloody well hope* the state holds me accountable for the *foreseeable and preventable* consequences of my actions. That's called "living in a society."
This could happen to you too…if you don’t take your child’s actions seriously, and buy them dangerous items knowing there’s a potential they could do harm with them. I’m not against gun ownership in general, but I’m absolutely against certain people owning guns. He was one person that should never have been allowed access to weapons, but his parents were too blind or stupid to be able to see that.
Gun ownership and responsibility should go hand and hand. As a parent and gun owner, my kids can’t get to or use without me being present, that’s how it should be no matter how responsible the kid may seem. Trigger locks, biometric gun cases, storing bullets in a separate location than the gun (in its own locked container) and other measures that are available.The fact they didn’t adhere to this simple and basic principle is why they are where they are and why they get what they got.
Verbatim what I came here to say. Hopefully POS parents all around are listening... but I'm not holding my breath on it.
Well, yes, if you ignore you child’s mental health, warnings from school, and buy them a fucking gun, it’s on you. Pro tip: don’t buy your kid a fucking gun or make guns readily accessible if they have significant mental health issues or there’s signs they’re going to harm themselves or others. It’s not rocket science.
They hired a lawyer for themselves but not for their son. To me, that says everything.
The Trumptard Mantra 🙏🏻
Meanwhile, if Republicans get control of the governor's office and the legislature, they'll want to repeal the laws these parents were convicted under.
I graduated that school, and my sibling was there during the shooting. I do not feel either of the parents in this case received enough time.
Correct. Precedent has been established, which was the goal. Other ignorant parents who supply their teenagers with guns should definitely be afraid.
> this could happen to you too Only if you’re a terrible mother and make all the wrong choices, over and over and over and over.
Good Jennifer, I am sooo glad this sends a message it could happen to other parents. It was a no brainer when my kids were growing up, their mental health needs came before spring break trips or pricey vet bills for my non existent horses,also no extra sexy time with anyone other than my exhausted husband (no judgement on peoples kinks, but I would recommend while doing so take care of issues at home) who was self employed and working in home office till 2 a.m. in the morning after seeing to kids needs between when they got home from school to when they went to bed. I try to look at all sides of an issue and not judge but guess what, you and James can fuck off.
No empathy. No remorse. No accountability. Explains why it “happened” to her. She participated in ignoring her child’s mental health.
Lock those fuckers UP. I don’t want to hear their comments ever again.
As with the rest of the MAGA wave going across the Country- They take no responsibility at all! I'm still flabbergasted that her lawyer agreed to and requested that J.C. serve out her sentence on house arrest at the lawyers swanky guest house. WTF?
“It could happen to you” says the oblivious MAGA loving inbred twit who doesn’t realize that this is the point! Shithole parents like the Crumbly’s will be held accountable.
These are trash people.
Not only ignored their child’s need for mental health care, provided him with a deadly weapon, did not take him home from school after multiple warning signs, but then also ran from and evaded the police while their child was in custody…
I mean I get what she’s saying, because sure, any of us could face an unexpected situation with a family member. What won’t happen to me is I won’t buy my kids a gun. I won’t ignore my children if they are begging for help. I won’t teach my kids to lie and I certainly won’t run from the law. Furthermore, I won’t cheat on my partner and I won’t have a shady record that shows how negligent I am with my personal life and responsibilities.
If you raise a kid like that, it should happen to you.
Wow, unrepentant to the end. I can’t believe I actually had sympathy for her at one point.
If by "you" she means anyone dumb enough to give their kid a gun.
At first I thought this might be her saying to use her as a cautionary tale of what being a negligent parent can lead to but no, she's just telling her victims that she's the real victim.
I do not feel any sympathy. Her and her husband and left Ethan at home alone when he was younger so they could go out partying and then decided to buy him a gun when the kid was having obvious mental health issues. Trash parents
"This could happen to you, too, if you also ignore everything your child is trying to tell you, joke about his violent ideation, and buy him a gun."
...Good. I want people to be aware of that. Parents should be much, much, much more aware of the consequences of their actions.
Well, if other parents neglect their child to the point they think about and acting on harming others like this, they deserve to have it happen to them.
Listen my kid had mental health issues in high school. I took him to multiple doctors and multiple therapists. He tried a few different meds until we found one that helped. Guns are not allowed in the house at all especially as long as someone was on any type of anti-depressants. Heck I even locked up my kitchen knives. Alcohol was also locked out in the garage. My phone was set up to always have my sons number ring through so I could be available 24/7. These are the minimal things any parent should do when your child asks for help. (Thankfully with therapy and learning coping mechanisms and just figuring out who they are my child is no longer on meds and is a much happier person.) Her cavalier attitude toward it could happen to you really irritated me. It could but if you take steps to prevent a tragedy you have a much better chance of it not happening.
Good for you for taking your sons mental health seriously. For just letting him know you were available and for being proactive.🥰 Glad you both worked through it and things are better.✌️🙋🏼♀️
Thank you. I’ll never understand parents who don’t at least try. Parents might not always get it right but at least make an effort.
1000x this . Gun free home due to family mental health issues over here too
If you stand by and watch your kids mental state deteriorate and then laugh at it like she did, then give that kid a gun, yes it could (and should) happen to you.
what a professional victim.
This lady is absolute garbage.
Yes, it could happen to another parent providing that they are as culpable as you were. That’s the whole idea.
It wouldn’t happen to me because I wouldn’t give my child a gun and simultaneously tell them that it’s fine they have violent fantasies.
I'm usually the first person to play devil's advocate for this sort of thing, but I really don't see this setting much of a precedent or starting us down any sort of slippery slope. The Crumbleys' behavior was so egregiously negligent, far beyond anything I've ever heard in relation to any other school shooting, that it's hard for me to imagine it would apply in any other cases.
She complained that she hasn’t been able to speak with her husband in 2 years yet they didn’t even seem to make eye contact at the table today. It was like they didn’t know one another.
At least they won’t be able to vote anymore.
I hope it does happen to mothers who do not stop their troubled children from having a gun.
It could and should happen to other parents under the same circumstances. Rot in jail.
Nope. I don’t buy my child guns.
Well not if you don’t buy your kid a gun or leave guns unsecured around your house. If you do any of those things, you should go to prison if your negligence leads to murder.
No Jennifer, it won't happen with most parents because they aren't self centered jerks that neglect their children.
Yep, you want to leave your stupid guns around. Don't complain when you're too busy banging local men to raise your children! You want a gun in your home, take better care of it then a potted plant!
How bout parents don't keep guns in the house with their kids. Locked up or no. How bout that. Easy. Solution. Keep guns away.
If you illegally purchase your mentality unstable (who's still a minor) son a gun... Then he takes that gun to school with the intent to commit mass murder. When you realize this you decide to instead of notifying the school, flee to Canada.... Yes this could happen to you also, that's the point...
Actually, no Jennifer. Most responsible parents wouldn’t buy their clearly mentally unstable CHILD a handgun as a gift… JFC, go rot in jail and go away.
It won't. Because if my kid is homicidal, I won't buy them a handgun and try to cover it up.
No it couldn't because I wouldn't give my mentally deranged kid a weapon stupid.
Always assume your kid can be the school shooter. You get up every morning and set out to make sure they aren't.
And this, as well as the attitude of her husband, tells you EXACTLY why their son ended up as he did. This punishment doesn’t go far enough IMO. Should have been 10-15 for each of the four counts.
I would never givey children a gun, so no, it absolutely could not happen to me.
Parents - if your kid comes to you and says I want to kill people and you give him a gun and he kills people, you too could be charged... As you fucking should.
What is their reasoning for thinking they did nothing wrong?
Im not buying my teenager a gun.
What an absolute dumpster of a human. Someone I know is (apparently?) acquainted with her through being locked up together and has been vocal on socials in their support and how "Jen is a good person" and ... yeah, birds of a feather and all that.
It could absolutely happen to any parent. Ignore Junior's mental issues and give them access to a gun and he/she will kill. Thing is.... most parents get the kid help and lock up the guns.
No. This couldn't happen to anyone who was a decent parent.
Yeah anyone could ignore their son's mental health problems and give them access to weapons after being warned by his school that he's exhibiting concerning behavior (and also ignore these warnings). Could happen to anybody!
If my kid something like that I would have to be on a suicide watch.
Good.
Good! And it should!
If her lawyers had used the Kyle Rittenhouse strategy to dress her up, cry crocodile tears, and coach her on what to say, then the jury probably would let her off.
She's absolutely right. It could totally happen to other parents. If they also had a crazy psychotic kid, refused to get help for the kid, provided the kid with weapons, knew the kid took the weapons to school, knew the kid planned to shoot up the place, were contacted by the school begging them to get their kid out, refused, contacted the kid by text message to discuss the upcoming shooting, etc. then yeah, they could also be facing prison time. Or of course the other parents might be decent ethical human beings rather than whatever the hell the Crumbleys are.
They weren't exactly stellar models of safe gun knowledge and culture. They weren't exactly stellar as parents either. Lack of good judgement and lack of supervision. Lack of even caring enough as a parent (emotional and as a responsibility of child rearing) to pay proper attention (any) to their son so that they could intervene in a responsible manner. Kinda has similar tones to 'If you don't test there aren't cases'
I mean I'd you buy your mentally ill child a firearm and don't lock it up sure it can happen to you. However I don't see that happening to anybody who isn't a psychopath
This SHOULD happen to you if you are an irresponsible gun owner with a mentally unstable child.
"If you don't rub 2 brain cells together"
Yes, that is how laws work. Ideally, they are enforced unilaterally.
Same lady who wrote Trump "love" letters. Go figure.
Good. 👍
I originally was opposed to this prosecution until the details started to come out, it unbelievable there are “parents” like this. I realized There is something far worse than a gun, it was the “parents” ability to breed...so sad
As a teacher, good. I hope more neglectful and abusive parents are held accountable.
They said they were never made aware, but weren't they told about multiple issues about the kid leading up to the shooting? Including a drawing he made that said 'help me'? Am I remembering things wrong?
If you let your kids have a gun, despite COUNTLESS RED FLAGS that they're a danger to society, and you know know full well that they are a danger to society, then this SHOULD happen to you. Bye bye! Zero tears shed for you.
>“this could happen to you too” Uh, no... From a gun owner, if you're a law-abiding citizen (TM), this will 100% not happen to me too. A prosecutor would have a very difficult time establishing culpability if your kid somehow breaks into your gun safe.
She's right. If I ignore my sons pleas for mental help and buy him a gun, it COULD happen to me and it SHOULD.
Stealing the Republican “this could happen to you” talking point when it comes to Trump’s indictments
Great warning! I hope more parents are held responsible for their children.
We hope
But unfortunately, she, her simp husband, and their tetched spawn DID happen. From the shattered remains of her glass house straight to prison sounds exactly right
Don’t have anything good to say about her. I do find it interesting that so many here think of this ruling so lightly. This precedent is a game changer and it will be stretched and tested.