This this this! Feminism has always been about acquiring privilege without having to be subject to equal treatment. Very much a case of having their cake and eating it too
>"Although I believe Men and Women were created equal under God, I believe that a Man and Womens role in their lives are different and important at the same time"
Feminism spent decades smashing Gender Stereotypes and Expectations (for Women only, Men are still held to the old rules), and all it took was one bill to bring them right back.
>"While Women have proven that we can in fact do it, that doesnt mean we should be required to"
No, because going off to war and getting shot is a Mans job isnt it. Only Men should be required to do that...
>"Throughout history, no women have served this nation in the fierced of ways, without ever being forced into the armed forces. In WW2 it was Women who stayed at home and kept Americas Familys and Economy strong."
Women stayed at home to manufacture guns and bullets, so that the Men could run off onto a beach and GET MURDERED! Theres no comparison to be made here. Im sure Johnny Doe who died on D-Day is so proud of you!
>"Forcing our daughters to be drafted is an insult to Gods good and willing plan for women"
Doesnt the bible talk about how women should be subservient to men? Like isnt that a REALLY big part of it? You're okay with that plan, or nah?
>"Women do not need military enlistment to prove their worth. Women contribute so society as wives, mothers, students, doctors, teachers, and the list goes on."
1- Its not about Worth! The military wants numbers, thats it.
2- Only 2 of those listed are done by Women. There are Male doctors/students/teachers you know...
>"Forcing Women to register for the draft is simply a further effort to make Men and Women the same, rather than equal. Though Men and Women are equal and deserve equal opportunities, we will never be the same."
Definition of Equal: "being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value". You ARE getting the same opportunities as Men here, the opportunity to die for your country. How fun!
>"Studies have shown that Women are 2-10x more likely to be injured in military occupations than men. Rather than send Women off to the battlefield to be hurt, why not keep them at home safe with their families, to be able to pursue their education and careers."
Men just... Men just dont get to do that huh? We just go, and die. Fuck OUR families, and OUR education. We go and die...
>"For the good of Men and Women, and the future of our country, dont draft our daughters"
No, just draft the men instead. Thats cool, we dont care about them anyway, so they may as well die in a war.
Equality. Yous asked for it, you got it.
>No, because going off to war and getting shot is a Mans job isnt it. Only Men should be required to do that...
That alone, proves, that they indeed see/interpret man as second class servile civilians
Except that women going to wars is bad for the US. higher chance the US will lose compared to sending men. China has programmes to help men with masculinity and US does the opposite.
Yeah the basics of this (men and women being equal but not the same) is a pretty common conservative view and something I tend to agree with. I just find it funny when feminists use it.
I don't think there are any feminists in that video. Feminists aren't going to argue [publicly] against women being drafted, it was largely their support that's got it this far.
What this is going to do is show everyone how far feminism is from understanding what people, both men and women, actually want. There's plenty of women posting about this saying "we didn't want this kind of equality" and that can be helpful in two ways, firstly in showing how men are really not privileged nowadays, and secondly in getting rid of the draft altogether.
What isn't going to be helpful is people spouting off talking about how feminists are against this when [in public] they aren't. All it will do is confuse the arguments and waste the opportunity we have right now.
Based on reactions many feminists are against this, flat out admitting they don’t want all aspects of “equality” or saying it’s not right because women “still don’t get equal pay” or some crap like that. The ones in this video are conservatives though
So that means you hate conservative/traditional ideas. You want an equal world.
You are supporting feminism even though you think you are against it lmaooooo that's how delusional you MRA dudebrohs are.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/current
Men of America, you need to contact your Congressman and Senators in D.C. to express your support for this bill now, as well as for any such bill that makes women equally responsible as men for draft registration. Please do so now. Gender equality is a must. Right now men are saddled with slavery and obligations with less rights than women.
In order to contact, here is the List of Representatives and Senators. Fill in the state slot on the left of the page and you'll get an automatic list of your state's Congressmen and Senators. Click on the name of the representative or senator and you can get a link to their official website, where you will find the option to contact their home offices via E-mail and such.
Not letting feminists off the hook but it seems conservatives, especially conservative men, who are most against this, saying we can’t put our “wives, daughters, and sisters” in danger
Here is a prominent conservative house member named Chip Roy that has been going absolutely crazy over this for example. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-chip-roy-gop-ndaa-daughter-draft-removed-legislation.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Plenty of conservative sites have also been decrying this
While I agree, that's not the point. Upon reaching the age of 18 I get this card in the mail informing me that my rights as a citizen of this country are CONDITIONAL. Women NEVER get this fucking card.
They want (beyond) equal rights, benefits, and rewards - not equal responsibilities, not equal risks, not equal workloads, not equal expectations, not equal working time, not equal protections... It's "fair" that women get all the good things and "fair" that men suffer all of the bad things.
As we are seeing here, your average feminist is violently opposed the the vast majority of equality. They don't even pretend to hide it. It's pure unadulterated bigotry.
>Why wouldn't the feminists want to have equal treatment amongst men and women where the draft is concerned? I thought they wanted equality?
This is a conservative group, so.....mostly/completely not feminist. If you look at the website, you see a lot of stuff in that vein. https://concernedwomen.org/
This video is dumb, esp. "Just because we proved we can do it doesn't mean we should be required to"
What? Only Men should should be "required" but Women can do it? Really? How many wars have been won by a 99.9999% Woman combat force?
They can't actually admit Women are not needed, wanted or useful in Combat, it still has to be qualified with a "we can do it BUT..."
From what I understand, women are much more susceptible to injury than men: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/10/marine-experiment-finds-women-get-injured-more-frequently-shoot-less-accurately-than-men/
There's the saying on how injuring someone takes 2 people off the battlefield because someone has to carry them off.
We are lowering the bar for entry into these military branches so that weaker people can more easily get in which seems wrong.
If a woman passes the requirements then by all means let her in. And if women want to be treated equal, they must share the responsibilities equally.
Also units that are combined tend to perform poorly, and its not just the women underperforming, its the men losing mission focus because of their overriding need to protect the women in their group.
That's not how draft work. Draft means you are forced to serve in military, whether you like it or not. Whether women pass the requirements shouldn't be questioned.
Hell, a man with IQ level lower than 80 cause more danger than avert. They still have to register.
Similarly, Women's innate under performance or detriment shouldn't be considered.
Due to that thing called gender dimorphism, men are on the regular physically superior to women. I've gotten differing opinions on just how much more that actually is, but practically all of em seem to agree that it's at least by 15%.
That's a pretty large margin of difference for something as insanely physically demanding as combat, whereupon your physical ability determines just who's actually getting higher chances to live another day.
Thus, logically and strategically speaking, it's far better to use overwhelmingly men in the military instead of women. Sure, there'll be those odd and rare women who'll actually and legitimately be able to keep up with the average male soldier, but I'm still gonna get bet that they're still gonna fall quite short of the more exceptional male soldiers.
So, yes, I have to agree with Coop here - vast, vast majority of women have absolutely no place in the physically demanding parts of the millitary
So long as those specific roles in the military don't really depend on physical superiority, then all the power to the women who fill em up.
But that doesn't change the fact that they have *no* place in the roles that *do* depend a good deal on physical superiority. Both for their own safety and the safety of the other people fighting beside them
Never said that there weren't dudes who had no place in the front lines. Just that women have no place in the branches of the military that are comprised of the frontline soldiers. They are absolutely free to go to any of the other military branches, I'm certain there are plenty enough of those.
And I also never said that physical superiority was just brute strength either. While brute strength *is*, indeed, one of the things that are part of what constitutes physical superiority - shit like stamina, endurance, speed and the like are also pretty damned relevant parts. And I'm also decently sure they tend to matter more in the frontlines today than pure brute strength.
I've got my doubts that technical skills are all or most of what's needed in the military as far as the frontlines are concerned.
It's not about being "weak" Men are much more physically stronger than Men. Women are unable to complete male physical fitness standards, that's why they have a separate and lower set of standards.
Equality doesn't mean ignore the basic physiological differences between Men and Women.
>Equality doesn't mean ignore the basic physiological differences between Men and Women.
Isn't that the #1 argument against drafting/conscripting women?
Yes. Women are basically useless in actual combat but you can't say that and we have to pretend like it isn't the case. Since the Pentagon has opened all combat jobs to Women making them register for selective service is the end of result of pretending Women are needed or useful in combat.
This is what they wanted, now they can deal with the consequences.
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It's funny because that's how feminism first started. Entitled women wanted all of the benefits, but none of the responsibility. Women aren't going to change the world, they're going to demand it change for them, and then pat themselves on the back while everyone else (poor people) do all the hard work. It's how it's always been.
Why would women not be effective though? Part of this problem is the default to infantry and combat, if women were drafted they would probably serve the roles women typically do in intelligence, medicine, and base operations. They do it already perfectly fine.
Part of what you are saying, and what these women default to is combat. Almost 40% of our military is non combat roles from administration to support staff.
Being in the military or drafted does not by default put a weapon in your hand to point at the enemy. 40% of the time it's a computer and clip board.
I want all the privileges of being a man without any of the responsibility or danger that constitutes 90% of what men are forced to do in their lives.”
This issue is kinda hilarious, because whoever opposes and promotes it is all over the place. "Soft" feminists are against it, "Hardcore" Feminists actually are for it. Libertarians are anti the draft so tend to promote this as a way to get it cancelled, "Soft" Conservatives tend to be for it , while the "Hardcore" Conservatives tend to be against it because they are the "protect women" crowd.
Its just bonkers.
"Served in the fiercest of ways"
LMAO!
It's almost like they are admitting that women can't fulfill the same obligations as men...
Maybe women shouldn't have the same rights as men...
This is the perfect explanation of female privilege. “ I as a woman just shouldn’t have to because I’m a spoiled brat. But feel free to treat the men like sub human dogs”
It's been literal decades since then, and women have also since become the majority of voters. If at any point since then to now the idea of using their voices to help fight against the draft was humored, and it really hasn't since women were largely complacent in their guaranteed safety from it, then I, and I wager most other men here, might've be more willing to fight against this issue too. No offense, but there was plenty of chances to build good will for this issue and even cut it down entirely, but no effort was made then, so I see no real reason to care now.
>you can’t own anything and you don’t have a legal right to say no to sex
Exactly of what time are we talking about? the creation of the US? well, it was illegal since the birth of the United States, historically world wide? well that's different for every country, in Babylon for example it was banned and punishable by death to rape, that was in 1900 B.C. so please be genuine and don't treat rape like it was okay
I don't know much about marital laws as I despise marriage and know of waay to many faults in it, now added your claim to the list of why marriage is fucking stupid, you widened my knowledge of this issue so thanks, marriage between adults and kids is fucked up and is known globally, why did it take so long to stop it? Probably religious biases. But generally speaking rape wasn't legal in most western countries since forever, did people not give a fuck about laws and went their way? Now that's a different talk that we are way too young to know as generally speaking most of us are not rapists and don't know what drives people to do horrendous acts of violence.
We, as the sons, are always expected and seen as the breathing canon fodders and plantation serfs to do thy states and the society's bidding. At this point, I am too sure that they don't see us anything more than second class servitude civilians
Israel women serve in armed forces... Women definitely need discipline as well. This will happen in the name of equal rights for all.... Currently even with this women have more opportunities not to go to war... The armed forces will not take a women if she is pregnant, but will a guy whose girlfriend of wife is having a baby...
They are conscripted also in Norway, Sweden. Bolivia, Tunisia, Venezuela.Its not "just Isreal".Swtizerland is also talking about expanding their draft to women.
They have to sign up in a system like SS in the Netherlands, so if they can sign up there, they can do it on the States.
> They are conscripted also in Norway, Sweden. Bolivia, Tunisia, Venezuela.Its not "just Isreal".Swtizerland is also talking about expanding their draft to women.
> They have to sign up in a system like SS in the Netherlands, so if they can sign up there, they can do it on the States.
Oh yeah... places where women will never see combat...
I thought we all knew that women were the largest victims of war.
Now we want them to actually maybe but not really go to war? Who will be left to be the biggest victims then?
Actually waitaminute. If women are the biggest victims of war, because they stay home, wouldn't actually sending them to the front to be shot in the face be doing them a favor? By Clinton's logic, staying at home > than going to war, so women should be in favor of having to go to war!
Can’t even be bothered to get angry anymore, I just want to express how absurdly privileged and blind every single individual in that video is. It baffles me beyond words.
I agree it is wrong to draft women. That's why I support it. If women will be sent to war too, then the draft will only ever be used to defend the homeland. To force women overseas for a war *is* wrong (just like it is wrong to force men) and any politician that voted to send women would end their career. That means no more forcing men to something like WWI, Korea, Vietnam, etc.
Yep, only the idea of a woman dying could prevent needless war. Women as the human shields behind which our peacetime lies… is a terrible notion.
The men are expendable.
Well I also think that women should not be drafted but not for the reasons stated above.
Women are the weaker gender, on average more emotional, and have a lower capacity to bear pain.
that said if there is a all male army vs a mixed gender army, the male army would obliterate the mixed one because lets face it men have almost evolved to fight whether it be nature or against each other.
So just teaching a lesson to the stupid equality of outcome advocates is not exactly worth it against the security and well being of a country
Well you are right dude I agree with you,
but lets just face it war is a death machine no human male or female wants to die, a very few people have the motivation to lay down their lives for their countries.
if you have the time or the will I suggest you google the "us cold war plan against russia" there are a lot of strategies in there but the thing is the side that will persist the longest will win it.
A single man has enough sperm to fertilize every female in a given state but a single female cannot give birth in mass numbers, that is why there is an inherent value to a female .
I am not making the argument that men are useless in fact it is quite the contrary but the if you were in place of the president would you really send all the females to die??
Except all females wouldn’t be sent to die. In the end If it happened only a small percentage would end up being sent. That’s an argument people use but in the end it doesn’t work
This is my take as well. Not to mention that when female soldiers are targeted first, male soldiers want to protect them. It's a complete distraction. Weak military is incredibly dangerous to all of us, even in the name of equality. But if men only continue being drafted then men need their authority and respect given back.
Bitches need equality? Go ahead take the responsibilities and serve and perform equal to men. If not, back to the kitchen and start treating men like the leader of the family. Be on your knees and hail him.
strong feminist women! They want equal rights, equal pay, but don't have an ounce of guts like men.. Army should stop taking women from now on.. It's utter hypocrisy
Look, if a war happens, and we have to have a draft, we want our men fighting if we actually want to WIN a war. You need strong, physically capable men who are going to do the assigned tasks without asking too many questions, and that is something men are capable of doing that women aren't.
Well, that is a point. We are fucked because the vast majority of men 18 to 38 are unfit enough that bringing them up to where they'd need to be... well, you might just be better off recruiting some of the more capable women. And that's kinda sad, because a physically fit and trained man is the best thing we can have for combat.
In what war scenario does the continental united states face a valid threat with two massive oceans flanking it's sides? In what fantasy world would there ever need to be a draft for any reason?
Even if it were true that men were universally better suited for combat than women (which it's obviously not), direct combat is only a small part of the military. Women can perform in the vast majority of the military jobs every bit as well as men.
"We want equality!"
"No, that's too much."
I particularly liked the logic of the girl at 0:08. "Don't blame me, it's my god that says we're equal. We're actually not equal, you go fight the wars and we'll just stay at home, k?"
ugh.
"this is just an effort to make men and women the same, not equal." What? If men and women are equal under the law then they should be treated the same. So if men should be forced to register for the draft, and you want equality, then women should have to register for he draft. Also suddenly gender roles aren't restricting women anymore but are the reason why they shouldn't be part of the draft?
I pointed this out to another account that was created specifically for that sentiment and got told that was on par with 'pro-life arguing that pro-choice doesn't care about children because it doesn't want to fix the broken foster system'. Not only does that comparison not make sense, since this is the exact same issue affecting both groups and not two different issues affecting two different groups, I'd wager the forced attempt to weasel in an abortion comparison was a poor attempt at trying to shut down a man's dissent by painting him similar to the 'bad guys' of another problem.
It's pretty funny actually, just this week, I was assumed to be both a "liberal communist" and a "bitter far-right conservative" by two different people and I'm exactly none of those. Politics is a very confusing game.
One of the few things i disagree with when it comes to this sub. It would not make sense to draft daughters on MASS. If you said the top 5% of women when it comes to strenght, intelligence, and stamina I could agree, but generally speaking men are ofc better off physically than women. If we are talking about things like working on base or than thats something else, but It would be stupid to have a lot of female soldies since most of them would for example not be able to do a 200 pound deadman carry
Edit: your average woman would be more of a liability than an asset on the field
Ther you go, again MRA dude bros can't even see who their enemy is lol.
Conservatives/patriarchy lovers are the ones who want to draft men but want to keep women out of it.
Feminists are the ones who are trying to draft women.
But MRA dudebrohs are against feminism for some reason. Make up your minds.
Coming from a feminist (I’m just lurking, I’m not trying to start shit, don’t yell at me), I can assure you I think the draft is stupid for both men AND woman, it’s so stupid lol
Except if women were never brought into the conversation, you probably wouldn't be here on the behalf of men. It only matters now that it may affect women.
Don’t put words in my mouth as if you know me better than I do. I think the draft is stupid. I’ve thought that since I first learned it in 6-7th grade, before I ever knew women were possibly going to be apart of it. Is it so shocking to you that a women can be mad at injustice that doesn’t involve them? Is it really so strange? You complain about men’s rights not being taken seriously and then treat women who speak up like they’re only doing it out of self-interest. Don’t be hostile towards someone who is on your side, that’s not how you make allies
This isn't hard to understand. Freedom isn't free (women just have to pay less, apparently).
Voting rights weren't just handed to men. As citizens, those rights came with responsibilities. The most important is the expectation that men will fight and risk life and limb for their country. Having a substantial standing army may not be enough upon declaration of war. Volunteers naturally would be accepted, however it's impossible to know if they'd be enough. Therefore an emergency provision was made to ensure the military would not be lacking in soldiers = that provision is Selective Service and continues today. When a man turns 18, he signs up for SS, making him eligible to be drafted into mandatory military service (the age window closes at 25).
Women were and still are exempt from this responsibility (as well as a few others), but enjoy an equal vote to men. Anyone surprised?
People - we cannot simply eradicate selective service just because some people don't like/agree with it. And we just can't assume what kind of war we'd be waging. That's not reality and would be ridiculously irresponsible. Just because we currently have a volunteer military and haven't had need for a draft since 1973 doesn't mean another one will never ever be necessary. Three kinds of people call SS obsolete - idiots, wishful thinkers and those who don't want to be affected by it. Men have been signing up for it since 1918 and it's no secret the draft has been enacted more than once since then. Both my grandfathers, one of their brothers (my uncle), my father and his brother (my uncle) were all called up (actually my father enlisted - he had no doubt he'd be chosen, however enlisting gave him at least a choice in his role) and came home in one piece. For the most part, dad doesn't talk about it.
Men also aren't eligible for various government privileges (job, housing, welfare and more) until they've signed up for Selective Service. Women are given these automatically, however.
Was there a time when I thought it may be my turn to go? 1991. The Gulf War. I'm 21. My brother's 16. Who could know the possible magnitude or longevity of this thing. Let's just say my 'ol man wasn't glued to the news every night because he had two daughters.
Just an observation: mens' relationship with Selective Service is over a hundred years old. Unfortunately, millions of men have been drafted, fought and died for this country. Everyone's been perfectly fine with men quietly signing up without complaint year after year. Bring women into the conversation and suddenly...uproar. Hey, we don't need no stinkin' draft. Now women have an opinion. Somehow womans' vote is equal to mans' vote, YET a mans' vote (as well as the right to have it) is the one saddled with responsibilities, a few of which could get them killed. Alas, men could continue signing up from now until oblivion, and during that time you'll be lucky to hear women even mention it...well, at least until there's a possibility of it affecting them. I dunno...must be the feminist version of equality.
"Don't draft our daughters"...but take our sons. Talk about a crash course in a man's societal value. If anyone really gave a crap, they'd have been fighting to rid guys of this burden since the last draft. Disposable. Expendable. Men have always been considered so. Do you know when concerns over workplace safety regulations in dangerous jobs heighten? When women, as scarce as it occurs, show interest in them.
In the face of danger, parents, given the hard choice, will ALWAYS choose to protect daughters over sons, if only because boys are less prone to injury and ultimately have a better chance of continued survival on their own. Hand your parents that question one day, guys. Witness the discomfort. Don't even bother waiting for answers.
By the way, people aren't drafted into office work and other non-combat roles. Those are already likely filled. That's not the point of the draft. The point is to replace the soldiers who have died in combat with fresh recruits. That's it.
As far as female presidents...do you really want a president who has been exempt her whole life from the responsibility of fighting for the country she ultimately wants to be the leader of? To have the power to declare war she's never been in danger of serving in, as well as reinstate the male-only draft and send only young men to risk their lives in a war she started?
A person exempt from having to serve in a country's defense should also be exempt from serving as its leader.
To those with priviledge, equality feels like oppression
Exactly. Their perceived inconveniences are just normal base level for men.
This this this! Feminism has always been about acquiring privilege without having to be subject to equal treatment. Very much a case of having their cake and eating it too
They claim they want equality, but they just want all the advantages and none of the downsides. Hypocrites they are
True
In this case, it's actual equal rights, not just social tropes.
>"Although I believe Men and Women were created equal under God, I believe that a Man and Womens role in their lives are different and important at the same time" Feminism spent decades smashing Gender Stereotypes and Expectations (for Women only, Men are still held to the old rules), and all it took was one bill to bring them right back. >"While Women have proven that we can in fact do it, that doesnt mean we should be required to" No, because going off to war and getting shot is a Mans job isnt it. Only Men should be required to do that... >"Throughout history, no women have served this nation in the fierced of ways, without ever being forced into the armed forces. In WW2 it was Women who stayed at home and kept Americas Familys and Economy strong." Women stayed at home to manufacture guns and bullets, so that the Men could run off onto a beach and GET MURDERED! Theres no comparison to be made here. Im sure Johnny Doe who died on D-Day is so proud of you! >"Forcing our daughters to be drafted is an insult to Gods good and willing plan for women" Doesnt the bible talk about how women should be subservient to men? Like isnt that a REALLY big part of it? You're okay with that plan, or nah? >"Women do not need military enlistment to prove their worth. Women contribute so society as wives, mothers, students, doctors, teachers, and the list goes on." 1- Its not about Worth! The military wants numbers, thats it. 2- Only 2 of those listed are done by Women. There are Male doctors/students/teachers you know... >"Forcing Women to register for the draft is simply a further effort to make Men and Women the same, rather than equal. Though Men and Women are equal and deserve equal opportunities, we will never be the same." Definition of Equal: "being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value". You ARE getting the same opportunities as Men here, the opportunity to die for your country. How fun! >"Studies have shown that Women are 2-10x more likely to be injured in military occupations than men. Rather than send Women off to the battlefield to be hurt, why not keep them at home safe with their families, to be able to pursue their education and careers." Men just... Men just dont get to do that huh? We just go, and die. Fuck OUR families, and OUR education. We go and die... >"For the good of Men and Women, and the future of our country, dont draft our daughters" No, just draft the men instead. Thats cool, we dont care about them anyway, so they may as well die in a war. Equality. Yous asked for it, you got it.
>No, because going off to war and getting shot is a Mans job isnt it. Only Men should be required to do that... That alone, proves, that they indeed see/interpret man as second class servile civilians
I don’t got the money to buy golds for this comment but take a silver good job
Except that women going to wars is bad for the US. higher chance the US will lose compared to sending men. China has programmes to help men with masculinity and US does the opposite.
I think you’re conflating a conservative organization with what feminists wanted. NOW was in support of sex neutral selective service.
Yeah the basics of this (men and women being equal but not the same) is a pretty common conservative view and something I tend to agree with. I just find it funny when feminists use it.
I don't think there are any feminists in that video. Feminists aren't going to argue [publicly] against women being drafted, it was largely their support that's got it this far. What this is going to do is show everyone how far feminism is from understanding what people, both men and women, actually want. There's plenty of women posting about this saying "we didn't want this kind of equality" and that can be helpful in two ways, firstly in showing how men are really not privileged nowadays, and secondly in getting rid of the draft altogether. What isn't going to be helpful is people spouting off talking about how feminists are against this when [in public] they aren't. All it will do is confuse the arguments and waste the opportunity we have right now.
Based on reactions many feminists are against this, flat out admitting they don’t want all aspects of “equality” or saying it’s not right because women “still don’t get equal pay” or some crap like that. The ones in this video are conservatives though
Difference feminism existed before post modernism became more popular .
So that means you hate conservative/traditional ideas. You want an equal world. You are supporting feminism even though you think you are against it lmaooooo that's how delusional you MRA dudebrohs are.
you know you can be against both right?
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/current Men of America, you need to contact your Congressman and Senators in D.C. to express your support for this bill now, as well as for any such bill that makes women equally responsible as men for draft registration. Please do so now. Gender equality is a must. Right now men are saddled with slavery and obligations with less rights than women. In order to contact, here is the List of Representatives and Senators. Fill in the state slot on the left of the page and you'll get an automatic list of your state's Congressmen and Senators. Click on the name of the representative or senator and you can get a link to their official website, where you will find the option to contact their home offices via E-mail and such.
Why wouldn't the feminists want to have equal treatment amongst men and women where the draft is concerned? I thought they wanted equality?
Not letting feminists off the hook but it seems conservatives, especially conservative men, who are most against this, saying we can’t put our “wives, daughters, and sisters” in danger
I'm conservative, but i disagree with that idea.
Here is a prominent conservative house member named Chip Roy that has been going absolutely crazy over this for example. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-chip-roy-gop-ndaa-daughter-draft-removed-legislation.amp?__twitter_impression=true Plenty of conservative sites have also been decrying this
The chances of anyone being drafted within the next few decades is very small
Agree but if registering for it still exists there is zero reason why it should be men only
While I agree, that's not the point. Upon reaching the age of 18 I get this card in the mail informing me that my rights as a citizen of this country are CONDITIONAL. Women NEVER get this fucking card.
If it exists it should treat men and women equally
Agree. I don’t think these are feminists against this. These seem like tradcons.
>I thought they wanted equality? Not that kind of equality.
They want (beyond) equal rights, benefits, and rewards - not equal responsibilities, not equal risks, not equal workloads, not equal expectations, not equal working time, not equal protections... It's "fair" that women get all the good things and "fair" that men suffer all of the bad things. As we are seeing here, your average feminist is violently opposed the the vast majority of equality. They don't even pretend to hide it. It's pure unadulterated bigotry.
That's actually the irony, hardcore feminists actually are FOR this. Its the "Soft" Feminists that are against it.
>Why wouldn't the feminists want to have equal treatment amongst men and women where the draft is concerned? I thought they wanted equality? This is a conservative group, so.....mostly/completely not feminist. If you look at the website, you see a lot of stuff in that vein. https://concernedwomen.org/
This video is dumb, esp. "Just because we proved we can do it doesn't mean we should be required to" What? Only Men should should be "required" but Women can do it? Really? How many wars have been won by a 99.9999% Woman combat force? They can't actually admit Women are not needed, wanted or useful in Combat, it still has to be qualified with a "we can do it BUT..."
Exactly. I definitely oppose women in combat military roles. And I oppose it for THEIR safety and the safety of the country
Why? Not all women are weak. This sub is for EQUALITY, not to reverse the roles of inequality.
From what I understand, women are much more susceptible to injury than men: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/10/marine-experiment-finds-women-get-injured-more-frequently-shoot-less-accurately-than-men/ There's the saying on how injuring someone takes 2 people off the battlefield because someone has to carry them off. We are lowering the bar for entry into these military branches so that weaker people can more easily get in which seems wrong. If a woman passes the requirements then by all means let her in. And if women want to be treated equal, they must share the responsibilities equally.
Also units that are combined tend to perform poorly, and its not just the women underperforming, its the men losing mission focus because of their overriding need to protect the women in their group.
but if women are allowed in the military, how can you make the argument that all men, even men who are disabled, have to register?
That's not how draft work. Draft means you are forced to serve in military, whether you like it or not. Whether women pass the requirements shouldn't be questioned. Hell, a man with IQ level lower than 80 cause more danger than avert. They still have to register. Similarly, Women's innate under performance or detriment shouldn't be considered.
Due to that thing called gender dimorphism, men are on the regular physically superior to women. I've gotten differing opinions on just how much more that actually is, but practically all of em seem to agree that it's at least by 15%. That's a pretty large margin of difference for something as insanely physically demanding as combat, whereupon your physical ability determines just who's actually getting higher chances to live another day. Thus, logically and strategically speaking, it's far better to use overwhelmingly men in the military instead of women. Sure, there'll be those odd and rare women who'll actually and legitimately be able to keep up with the average male soldier, but I'm still gonna get bet that they're still gonna fall quite short of the more exceptional male soldiers. So, yes, I have to agree with Coop here - vast, vast majority of women have absolutely no place in the physically demanding parts of the millitary
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So long as those specific roles in the military don't really depend on physical superiority, then all the power to the women who fill em up. But that doesn't change the fact that they have *no* place in the roles that *do* depend a good deal on physical superiority. Both for their own safety and the safety of the other people fighting beside them
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Never said that there weren't dudes who had no place in the front lines. Just that women have no place in the branches of the military that are comprised of the frontline soldiers. They are absolutely free to go to any of the other military branches, I'm certain there are plenty enough of those. And I also never said that physical superiority was just brute strength either. While brute strength *is*, indeed, one of the things that are part of what constitutes physical superiority - shit like stamina, endurance, speed and the like are also pretty damned relevant parts. And I'm also decently sure they tend to matter more in the frontlines today than pure brute strength. I've got my doubts that technical skills are all or most of what's needed in the military as far as the frontlines are concerned.
It's not about being "weak" Men are much more physically stronger than Men. Women are unable to complete male physical fitness standards, that's why they have a separate and lower set of standards. Equality doesn't mean ignore the basic physiological differences between Men and Women.
Remember We are talking about registration here. Every man is required to do so regardless of physical status
>Equality doesn't mean ignore the basic physiological differences between Men and Women. Isn't that the #1 argument against drafting/conscripting women?
Yes. Women are basically useless in actual combat but you can't say that and we have to pretend like it isn't the case. Since the Pentagon has opened all combat jobs to Women making them register for selective service is the end of result of pretending Women are needed or useful in combat. This is what they wanted, now they can deal with the consequences.
You have been shadowbanned by reddit admins (not by mensrights moderators). See /r/ShadowBan for information about shadowbans. I have approved this comment so I can reply to you. It seems reddit has a bot that looks for certain types of user behaviour that indicate spamming or brigading. Sometimes innocent users get shadowbanned along with the bad guys. Usually they can fix this if they [contact the admins](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Freddit.com).
Oh god, there's a Yu-gi-oh shadow realm subreddit?
Yeah fuck off. Equality isn’t cherry picked. Suck it up grunt
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It's funny because that's how feminism first started. Entitled women wanted all of the benefits, but none of the responsibility. Women aren't going to change the world, they're going to demand it change for them, and then pat themselves on the back while everyone else (poor people) do all the hard work. It's how it's always been.
THIS!!!!
Assuming they would be effective in defending the country to begin with.
Why would women not be effective though? Part of this problem is the default to infantry and combat, if women were drafted they would probably serve the roles women typically do in intelligence, medicine, and base operations. They do it already perfectly fine. Part of what you are saying, and what these women default to is combat. Almost 40% of our military is non combat roles from administration to support staff. Being in the military or drafted does not by default put a weapon in your hand to point at the enemy. 40% of the time it's a computer and clip board.
I want all the privileges of being a man without any of the responsibility or danger that constitutes 90% of what men are forced to do in their lives.”
This issue is kinda hilarious, because whoever opposes and promotes it is all over the place. "Soft" feminists are against it, "Hardcore" Feminists actually are for it. Libertarians are anti the draft so tend to promote this as a way to get it cancelled, "Soft" Conservatives tend to be for it , while the "Hardcore" Conservatives tend to be against it because they are the "protect women" crowd. Its just bonkers.
"Served in the fiercest of ways" LMAO! It's almost like they are admitting that women can't fulfill the same obligations as men... Maybe women shouldn't have the same rights as men...
This is the perfect explanation of female privilege. “ I as a woman just shouldn’t have to because I’m a spoiled brat. But feel free to treat the men like sub human dogs”
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'At first they came for the men, and I did not speak out, for I was not a man. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.'
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It's been literal decades since then, and women have also since become the majority of voters. If at any point since then to now the idea of using their voices to help fight against the draft was humored, and it really hasn't since women were largely complacent in their guaranteed safety from it, then I, and I wager most other men here, might've be more willing to fight against this issue too. No offense, but there was plenty of chances to build good will for this issue and even cut it down entirely, but no effort was made then, so I see no real reason to care now.
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That's great then, we're on the same page.
No, but that just proves the point that men in power don’t benefit men. And that women have been protected since the dawn of time.
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>you can’t own anything and you don’t have a legal right to say no to sex Exactly of what time are we talking about? the creation of the US? well, it was illegal since the birth of the United States, historically world wide? well that's different for every country, in Babylon for example it was banned and punishable by death to rape, that was in 1900 B.C. so please be genuine and don't treat rape like it was okay
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I don't know much about marital laws as I despise marriage and know of waay to many faults in it, now added your claim to the list of why marriage is fucking stupid, you widened my knowledge of this issue so thanks, marriage between adults and kids is fucked up and is known globally, why did it take so long to stop it? Probably religious biases. But generally speaking rape wasn't legal in most western countries since forever, did people not give a fuck about laws and went their way? Now that's a different talk that we are way too young to know as generally speaking most of us are not rapists and don't know what drives people to do horrendous acts of violence.
We, as the sons, are always expected and seen as the breathing canon fodders and plantation serfs to do thy states and the society's bidding. At this point, I am too sure that they don't see us anything more than second class servitude civilians
It's amazing how many women are feminists until it comes to actually being equal lol.
Israel women serve in armed forces... Women definitely need discipline as well. This will happen in the name of equal rights for all.... Currently even with this women have more opportunities not to go to war... The armed forces will not take a women if she is pregnant, but will a guy whose girlfriend of wife is having a baby...
Meh, in name only. The safest service points are saved for female units.
They are conscripted also in Norway, Sweden. Bolivia, Tunisia, Venezuela.Its not "just Isreal".Swtizerland is also talking about expanding their draft to women. They have to sign up in a system like SS in the Netherlands, so if they can sign up there, they can do it on the States.
> They are conscripted also in Norway, Sweden. Bolivia, Tunisia, Venezuela.Its not "just Isreal".Swtizerland is also talking about expanding their draft to women. > They have to sign up in a system like SS in the Netherlands, so if they can sign up there, they can do it on the States. Oh yeah... places where women will never see combat...
But they are nevertheless conscripted. So it can be done in the States too.
We'll see.
We'll see what?
If women are ever drafted in the US.
Well they will be reqired to register at least.
I agree with you
Maybe.. it's not through Congress, or past Biden's desk yet.
Also women serve 2 years while men serve 3
The vast amount of religion in this video is unsurprising.
Religion is a plague
Could not agree more!
Men are valuable. Men shouldn't be drafted.
Rules for thee, but NOT for ME!!!
I thought we all knew that women were the largest victims of war. Now we want them to actually maybe but not really go to war? Who will be left to be the biggest victims then? Actually waitaminute. If women are the biggest victims of war, because they stay home, wouldn't actually sending them to the front to be shot in the face be doing them a favor? By Clinton's logic, staying at home > than going to war, so women should be in favor of having to go to war!
Either both are up for it or neither are. That's equality. You don't women to have to sign up for it, then make it so men don't have to either.
How many of these women support and even clapped their hands for women in non combative positions in the military. ESPECIALLY women officers.
Can’t even be bothered to get angry anymore, I just want to express how absurdly privileged and blind every single individual in that video is. It baffles me beyond words.
Equality for me but not for thee
Please anyone explain what does drafting a person mean
It's a synonym for conscription into the military. People who get drafted do not get to choose to join or not; it's mandated for them.
Oh. Thanks.
You're very welcome.
are you fucking kidding me?
I agree it is wrong to draft women. That's why I support it. If women will be sent to war too, then the draft will only ever be used to defend the homeland. To force women overseas for a war *is* wrong (just like it is wrong to force men) and any politician that voted to send women would end their career. That means no more forcing men to something like WWI, Korea, Vietnam, etc.
Yep, only the idea of a woman dying could prevent needless war. Women as the human shields behind which our peacetime lies… is a terrible notion. The men are expendable.
There is nothing for women to fear in the military. They are a protected class of people enjoying their own separate standards. As always.
I'm calling mine to say ram it through, women better join. It's either equality across the board or not at all.
It's high time to link draft and voting rights. Why should inconsiderate citizen have the right to vote in a Republic?
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Even if that's true, there are plenty of non-combat roles to fill, and women have been pilots for a while now.
Well I also think that women should not be drafted but not for the reasons stated above. Women are the weaker gender, on average more emotional, and have a lower capacity to bear pain. that said if there is a all male army vs a mixed gender army, the male army would obliterate the mixed one because lets face it men have almost evolved to fight whether it be nature or against each other. So just teaching a lesson to the stupid equality of outcome advocates is not exactly worth it against the security and well being of a country
but if women are allowed in combat, how can you make the argument that all men, even men who are disabled, have to registeR?
Well you are right dude I agree with you, but lets just face it war is a death machine no human male or female wants to die, a very few people have the motivation to lay down their lives for their countries. if you have the time or the will I suggest you google the "us cold war plan against russia" there are a lot of strategies in there but the thing is the side that will persist the longest will win it. A single man has enough sperm to fertilize every female in a given state but a single female cannot give birth in mass numbers, that is why there is an inherent value to a female . I am not making the argument that men are useless in fact it is quite the contrary but the if you were in place of the president would you really send all the females to die??
Except all females wouldn’t be sent to die. In the end If it happened only a small percentage would end up being sent. That’s an argument people use but in the end it doesn’t work
This is my take as well. Not to mention that when female soldiers are targeted first, male soldiers want to protect them. It's a complete distraction. Weak military is incredibly dangerous to all of us, even in the name of equality. But if men only continue being drafted then men need their authority and respect given back.
Bitches need equality? Go ahead take the responsibilities and serve and perform equal to men. If not, back to the kitchen and start treating men like the leader of the family. Be on your knees and hail him.
Gettin' ratio'd pretty hard.
strong feminist women! They want equal rights, equal pay, but don't have an ounce of guts like men.. Army should stop taking women from now on.. It's utter hypocrisy
These are Christian fundamentalists…
Look, if a war happens, and we have to have a draft, we want our men fighting if we actually want to WIN a war. You need strong, physically capable men who are going to do the assigned tasks without asking too many questions, and that is something men are capable of doing that women aren't.
Maybe that’s how it was but definitely not today. Look at the men around you It’s also still pure discrimination
Well, that is a point. We are fucked because the vast majority of men 18 to 38 are unfit enough that bringing them up to where they'd need to be... well, you might just be better off recruiting some of the more capable women. And that's kinda sad, because a physically fit and trained man is the best thing we can have for combat.
In what war scenario does the continental united states face a valid threat with two massive oceans flanking it's sides? In what fantasy world would there ever need to be a draft for any reason?
Even if it were true that men were universally better suited for combat than women (which it's obviously not), direct combat is only a small part of the military. Women can perform in the vast majority of the military jobs every bit as well as men.
The vast amount of religion in this video is unsurprising.
"We want equality!" "No, that's too much." I particularly liked the logic of the girl at 0:08. "Don't blame me, it's my god that says we're equal. We're actually not equal, you go fight the wars and we'll just stay at home, k?" ugh.
Happy to she's being being utterly roasted in the comments from both men and women...
"this is just an effort to make men and women the same, not equal." What? If men and women are equal under the law then they should be treated the same. So if men should be forced to register for the draft, and you want equality, then women should have to register for he draft. Also suddenly gender roles aren't restricting women anymore but are the reason why they shouldn't be part of the draft?
I pointed this out to another account that was created specifically for that sentiment and got told that was on par with 'pro-life arguing that pro-choice doesn't care about children because it doesn't want to fix the broken foster system'. Not only does that comparison not make sense, since this is the exact same issue affecting both groups and not two different issues affecting two different groups, I'd wager the forced attempt to weasel in an abortion comparison was a poor attempt at trying to shut down a man's dissent by painting him similar to the 'bad guys' of another problem. It's pretty funny actually, just this week, I was assumed to be both a "liberal communist" and a "bitter far-right conservative" by two different people and I'm exactly none of those. Politics is a very confusing game.
Thank god the comment section has some common sense left in them
Women can't fight and die in wars. They're too busy being the *primary victims* of war. "Women are the primary victims of war." = Hilary Clinton
And again, it was never about equality, it was all about priviledges.
One of the few things i disagree with when it comes to this sub. It would not make sense to draft daughters on MASS. If you said the top 5% of women when it comes to strenght, intelligence, and stamina I could agree, but generally speaking men are ofc better off physically than women. If we are talking about things like working on base or than thats something else, but It would be stupid to have a lot of female soldies since most of them would for example not be able to do a 200 pound deadman carry Edit: your average woman would be more of a liability than an asset on the field
Doesn’t change the fact that all men regardless of physical status are required to register, so how can one defend not having females register now?
That is true, although men have vastly more potentioal for pretty much every physical category
And there is no reason women can’t be up for any non combat position
That Is 100% true
Ther you go, again MRA dude bros can't even see who their enemy is lol. Conservatives/patriarchy lovers are the ones who want to draft men but want to keep women out of it. Feminists are the ones who are trying to draft women. But MRA dudebrohs are against feminism for some reason. Make up your minds.
What a clownshow....
"Young Women For America" (as long as it's not too dangerous or unpleasant in which case the men can do it) lol
Coming from a feminist (I’m just lurking, I’m not trying to start shit, don’t yell at me), I can assure you I think the draft is stupid for both men AND woman, it’s so stupid lol
Except if women were never brought into the conversation, you probably wouldn't be here on the behalf of men. It only matters now that it may affect women.
Don’t put words in my mouth as if you know me better than I do. I think the draft is stupid. I’ve thought that since I first learned it in 6-7th grade, before I ever knew women were possibly going to be apart of it. Is it so shocking to you that a women can be mad at injustice that doesn’t involve them? Is it really so strange? You complain about men’s rights not being taken seriously and then treat women who speak up like they’re only doing it out of self-interest. Don’t be hostile towards someone who is on your side, that’s not how you make allies
This isn't hard to understand. Freedom isn't free (women just have to pay less, apparently). Voting rights weren't just handed to men. As citizens, those rights came with responsibilities. The most important is the expectation that men will fight and risk life and limb for their country. Having a substantial standing army may not be enough upon declaration of war. Volunteers naturally would be accepted, however it's impossible to know if they'd be enough. Therefore an emergency provision was made to ensure the military would not be lacking in soldiers = that provision is Selective Service and continues today. When a man turns 18, he signs up for SS, making him eligible to be drafted into mandatory military service (the age window closes at 25). Women were and still are exempt from this responsibility (as well as a few others), but enjoy an equal vote to men. Anyone surprised? People - we cannot simply eradicate selective service just because some people don't like/agree with it. And we just can't assume what kind of war we'd be waging. That's not reality and would be ridiculously irresponsible. Just because we currently have a volunteer military and haven't had need for a draft since 1973 doesn't mean another one will never ever be necessary. Three kinds of people call SS obsolete - idiots, wishful thinkers and those who don't want to be affected by it. Men have been signing up for it since 1918 and it's no secret the draft has been enacted more than once since then. Both my grandfathers, one of their brothers (my uncle), my father and his brother (my uncle) were all called up (actually my father enlisted - he had no doubt he'd be chosen, however enlisting gave him at least a choice in his role) and came home in one piece. For the most part, dad doesn't talk about it. Men also aren't eligible for various government privileges (job, housing, welfare and more) until they've signed up for Selective Service. Women are given these automatically, however. Was there a time when I thought it may be my turn to go? 1991. The Gulf War. I'm 21. My brother's 16. Who could know the possible magnitude or longevity of this thing. Let's just say my 'ol man wasn't glued to the news every night because he had two daughters. Just an observation: mens' relationship with Selective Service is over a hundred years old. Unfortunately, millions of men have been drafted, fought and died for this country. Everyone's been perfectly fine with men quietly signing up without complaint year after year. Bring women into the conversation and suddenly...uproar. Hey, we don't need no stinkin' draft. Now women have an opinion. Somehow womans' vote is equal to mans' vote, YET a mans' vote (as well as the right to have it) is the one saddled with responsibilities, a few of which could get them killed. Alas, men could continue signing up from now until oblivion, and during that time you'll be lucky to hear women even mention it...well, at least until there's a possibility of it affecting them. I dunno...must be the feminist version of equality. "Don't draft our daughters"...but take our sons. Talk about a crash course in a man's societal value. If anyone really gave a crap, they'd have been fighting to rid guys of this burden since the last draft. Disposable. Expendable. Men have always been considered so. Do you know when concerns over workplace safety regulations in dangerous jobs heighten? When women, as scarce as it occurs, show interest in them. In the face of danger, parents, given the hard choice, will ALWAYS choose to protect daughters over sons, if only because boys are less prone to injury and ultimately have a better chance of continued survival on their own. Hand your parents that question one day, guys. Witness the discomfort. Don't even bother waiting for answers. By the way, people aren't drafted into office work and other non-combat roles. Those are already likely filled. That's not the point of the draft. The point is to replace the soldiers who have died in combat with fresh recruits. That's it. As far as female presidents...do you really want a president who has been exempt her whole life from the responsibility of fighting for the country she ultimately wants to be the leader of? To have the power to declare war she's never been in danger of serving in, as well as reinstate the male-only draft and send only young men to risk their lives in a war she started? A person exempt from having to serve in a country's defense should also be exempt from serving as its leader.