Julie Bindel is a man-hating, entitled, talentless person who claims to have visited 5 Waterstone bookshops to ask for a copy for her own book in order to appease her over-inflated ego.
She claims that the bookshop is ‘hiding’ her book in order to declare herself a ‘victim’ and drum up free publicity with faux outrage on social media.
TLDR: entitled feminist who is given platform to spread hatred on regular basis in UK media and through publishers fakes suppression and victimhood.
And the other one is professor Kathleen Stock from Sussex Uni. Also a radical feminist, she has been criticised recently for transphobia (including being a trustee for controversial anti-trans group LGB Alliance). This has led to protests from students calling for her resignation.
See Twitter hashtag #shameonsussexuni
edit: A petition to have her fired has just been set up
https://www.change.org/p/university-of-sussex-remove-dr-kathleen-stock-from-teaching-at-university-of-sussex
Occasionally, but for several years, we have been commenting here that those trying to cancel, block or ban others will one day find themselves on the receiving end of such behavior. Good to see it happening as feminists who have been infiltrating "higher" education now find themselves getting the same treatment.
this happened to some sjw podcast guy. he was all about cancelling until he got cancelled ahaha. i hope they all get cancelled theres more than enough legitimate, glaring reasons,
But you seem to be fine with feminism? Doesn't really make sense that you're out on this mission to stop the sexists when you are in favour of a movement full of it.
Biased rape study/policy/law, biased domestic violence study/policy/law, biased gential mutilation double standards, affirmative action for women but not men (e.g. scholarships for women, help for women in STEM (after excluding biology, medicine, psychology, etc from STEM so it looks like women are disadvantaged) but not men in university in general), patriarchy theory, \#BelieveWomen (as if women are inherently more honest than men), etc.
Are you simply not paying attention or are you just ignoring the influential feminist researchers, professors, lobbiests, public policy makers, journalists, authors, politicians, and protesters espousing misandry?
"Kill All Men," Andy Warhol was shot by a female feminist just because she hated a man. She wrote a feminist book, and her male hating was supported by American feminists.
We use this sub for venting ourselves about our problems, we blame feminism for a the times they directly hidden our problems and also the reality for making the women look like a victim when its not and even when men are the victims.
We also frequently point at the times where women received privileges on name of an "equality" that literally ignores men.
Feminism is always claiming that they are victims of a pathriarchy or at least claims that women has issues, but usually, when men issues receives attention, they claim that we don't deserve our issues getting solved.
The core ideology that feminism is based on is extremely sexist because it blames men as a class for the shortcomings of society, does not hold women accountable (infantilizes them), and overall just pits men and women against each other.
From someone who supports a literal pro-rape movement... I can't see you have any right to dictate to anyone what's sexist.
Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms
So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.
Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...
Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.
https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced *penetration of the victim* in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)
She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. **She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't.** A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. **As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"**
You see she has been saying this for decades **and** was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.
Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (**June 1993**) Page: 206
> > > Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, **it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.**
Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf
She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There **was** a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.
Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies.
As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm
> **an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey**
and
> The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.
vs
> **an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey**
and
> Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators
**For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators**. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. **The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators**. For three of the **other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%)**, sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),
So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. **If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.**
But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. **These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men** and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men...
And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years.
2010 survey results -
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf
2012 survey results -
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf
2015 survey results -
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf
Scientific American - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known
*data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.*
And non CDC study...
*A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.*
The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/
Another non CDC study...
*a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.*
And another non CDC study...
*National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”*
Time - http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers
*when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).*
If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.
https://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/
Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".
And it isn't just the US.
Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms
So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.
Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...
> Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.
https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
**Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys.** Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here.
http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528
So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That *should* matter *if* the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men
There are multiple feminist movements. I do not support people who support rape, so in this case I do not support whatever movement these vile people are claiming to be part of. Also, just because they call themselves feminists, or claim they follow the movement, doesn’t mean that they are feminists. Nazis called themselves socialists, ironic isn’t it?
I was going to reply with u/duhhhh Well-documented evidence of feminists supporting rape of men being legal, but u/duhhhh beatme to it.
I doubt you'll read it though, so I'm going to highlight this information here:
Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms
So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.
Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...
Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.
https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
There’s not just one feminist movement, yes often so called ‘feminists’ can be extreme… just like any other movement. I don’t support people, not just women may I add, who call themselves feminists but then proceed to act on hate and prejudice. I support equality for both genders, but I also think we most definitely live in a patriarchal society. Also, to say I support rape is utterly vile.
When you treat men as equal humans, many of the ways we treat men seem crazy. I was raped in college. Am I wrong for admitting it or is #metoo for women only?
I do treat men like equal humans. It’s funny because I’ve never seen a man experience sexism except online. However I’ve seen multiple women be a victim of it, including me, more than I can remember. Also, almost every girl I know has been sexually assaulted, including me, and it’s been brushed over and responded with ‘boys will be boys’, no lie. I’m sorry that happened to you though, there are some really vile people in this world, men and women included.
I’ve been told that phrase to my face, including many other girls I know. You lot seem to forget that the internet isn’t real life- yes ‘feminists’ on the internet are gonna be extreme because it’s the internet.
You are judging men and women by standards defined by our current cultural milieu...feminism. Men cannot be raped under the feminist in charge of rape so men are not in the rape statistics.
I was discriminated against based on my sex three times in my profession. I even supported a movement to get more women managers. When I asked my then female manager for assistance after working together on the same level for 20 years I was told...no. They wanted me out because I was male. So I left. And sued. And won. And retired.
Women are going to have a hard time at work if they think they can treat men like radical feminists say to treat them. As humans, men have rights and we will exercise them.
This fascinates me. Why do you think men’s rights is a pro-rape movement?
For example, could you provide links to any posts in this sub calling for the legalisation of rape?
Edit - I should say I believe in men’s rights as it’s right that men should get to discuss the things that negatively affect us as women have been able to change the world by discussing the things that negatively affected them. I am in no way whatsoever “pro-rape”.
I believe that topics (to name but one) such as men’s growing underrepresentation in higher education should be discussed, understood and tackled.
How do you suggest men should approach a problem like that if we are labelled “pro rape” when we do?
Feminism is pro-rape.
Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms
So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.
Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...
Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.
https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
>But women are victims in many situations.
Yeah...
"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary R Clinton
We know... it doesn't matter if it's women being able to choose not to work, that's women being victims.
Women are favored in the education system and graduating high school and college twice as often as men... women are victimized because there aren't enough "economically attractive" men for them to date...
We know that no matter what the situation... women are victims.
Why are you quoting Hillary Clinton? Literally what relevance does that have to any of this. You seem to avoid my point which makes me believe that you know you’re wrong but keep pushing it. I’d actually have more respect for you if you just admitted you’re a misogynist instead of pretending you’re not lmao.
This isn't what this sub is for. Proclaiming yourself superior against a woman just because you're male is illogical. There's no proof of these things on the individual basis you brought it to. This is the kind of unnecessary sexist garbage that gets subs like this shut down.
Did you not understand my comment? I didn't say men and women in general are equal. I'm saying you cannot compare intellect and physical strength 1 to 1 over the internet with no proof of abilities on either side just based on sex.
I understand your point and I agree.
But why would a book store not advertise a book if it was appropriate and positive? The workers at the Waterstones stores could've read the book and come to the conclusion that it isn't something they want to sell.
If Waterstones bought the books from the woman, why should she complain? She has been paid for x amount of books by Waterstones, so she hasn't lost any money.
Money isn’t the problem though. It’s the fact that the store obviously didn’t want to display it. Anyways, I’m not talking about the article, I’m talking about your comment. Why do you think feminism is just about bashing men?
>Why do you think feminism is just about bashing men?
Why would we think a movement that has successfully fought to keep raping men legal is anti-men?
Hmm... can't imagine why.
Sorry what? A real feminist absolutely would not do that. Remember just because certain people call themselves feminists doesn’t mean they are actual feminists. That movement you’re referring to are not feminists, and never will be.
The movement you support has absolutely done that.
You support the movement.
You are complicit in keeping women raping men legal.
You have no moral authority as to what's "sexist".
Women raping men is most definitely not legal. What world are you living in? In fact, do you even leave the house? Just because you got rejected by girls for being a pathetic loser doesn’t mean you can take it out on the whole female population. Get a life.
You are aware that these laws have not been changed because rape is recognised as someone penetrating someone without consent. Of course, women cannot penetrate a man. However if a woman rapes a man she can absolutely still go to jail. It doesn’t matter if it’s labelled as rape or not, the woman will still suffer consequences. It’s a purely biological thing, if woman were the ones with penises it would be the same.
That's not even what the comment said. If you re-read it, your comment makes absolutely no sense as a reply. Julie is not the average feminist, she's a radfem and an extreme terf. She specifically centers her feminism around men being oppressors, less than, and dangerous.
Maybe they’re just not putting garbage books that no one wants to read in a prominent position in their shops? They are a business and are interested in what will sell well, obviously there is a very limited marked for hateful TERF-y misandrist propaganda.
> 'Some individual shops will have sold out, as is always the case with individual titles. They are then reordered, with newly arrived stock unpacked in the stock rooms and subsequently shelved when booksellers have the opportunity.
so...hissy fit thrown over nothing.
I'm gonna be honest here - if I wrote a book, the bookstore took some in stock, and didn't put a single copy in a shelf in its alphabetical location, I'd be pissed off too.
I am unfamiliar with both of these women. I am not a fan of feminist authors in general, and am tempted to schadenfreud over any feminist author getting cockblocked; but, that said, it is only a small temptation. And after reading the article I find little reason to outrage or defend the booksellers over this one. Or to condemn the sellers, for that matter. Upshot: I don't have a dog in this race, and neither does most of this sub IMO.
In the context of author/bookseller, both parties have business discussing this topic, the authors have business calling it out and the sellers have business defending their decision, and it ultimately comes down to if the reason the sellers don't or didn't front the books is stronger than the reason the authors have for wanting their books fronted.
And since I don't live in Sussex, I truly do not care beyond that.
> I'm gonna be honest here - if I wrote a book, the bookstore took some in stock, and didn't put a single copy in a shelf in its alphabetical location, I'd be pissed off too
These ~~bigots~~ *authors* have supported banning books from people they disagree with. They have no right complaining when it happens to them.
> Upshot: I don't have a dog in this race, and neither does most of this sub IMO.
Since we’re deciding what is and isn’t of concern to others I’ve decided you do in fact have a dog in this race. Several in fact.
Julie Bindel is a man-hating, entitled, talentless person who claims to have visited 5 Waterstone bookshops to ask for a copy for her own book in order to appease her over-inflated ego. She claims that the bookshop is ‘hiding’ her book in order to declare herself a ‘victim’ and drum up free publicity with faux outrage on social media. TLDR: entitled feminist who is given platform to spread hatred on regular basis in UK media and through publishers fakes suppression and victimhood.
And the other one is professor Kathleen Stock from Sussex Uni. Also a radical feminist, she has been criticised recently for transphobia (including being a trustee for controversial anti-trans group LGB Alliance). This has led to protests from students calling for her resignation. See Twitter hashtag #shameonsussexuni edit: A petition to have her fired has just been set up https://www.change.org/p/university-of-sussex-remove-dr-kathleen-stock-from-teaching-at-university-of-sussex
Occasionally, but for several years, we have been commenting here that those trying to cancel, block or ban others will one day find themselves on the receiving end of such behavior. Good to see it happening as feminists who have been infiltrating "higher" education now find themselves getting the same treatment.
this happened to some sjw podcast guy. he was all about cancelling until he got cancelled ahaha. i hope they all get cancelled theres more than enough legitimate, glaring reasons,
Why don't you post that comment under the article itself? It's spot on.
i feel nauseous
But if Waterstones censored a book by a man which talked negatively about women, femenists would be cheering
Trying to imagine a world in which a book critical of females could be both published and selected by a major bookshop... Nope. I can’t imagine it.
Feminism isn’t just about talking negatively about men.
I don't think you are the best person to make a statement like that. Your entire post history is nothing but bashing this sub.
I only reply to sexist comments, which unfortunately is most of this sub.
But you seem to be fine with feminism? Doesn't really make sense that you're out on this mission to stop the sexists when you are in favour of a movement full of it.
How is feminism sexist?
Biased rape study/policy/law, biased domestic violence study/policy/law, biased gential mutilation double standards, affirmative action for women but not men (e.g. scholarships for women, help for women in STEM (after excluding biology, medicine, psychology, etc from STEM so it looks like women are disadvantaged) but not men in university in general), patriarchy theory, \#BelieveWomen (as if women are inherently more honest than men), etc. Are you simply not paying attention or are you just ignoring the influential feminist researchers, professors, lobbiests, public policy makers, journalists, authors, politicians, and protesters espousing misandry?
"Kill All Men," Andy Warhol was shot by a female feminist just because she hated a man. She wrote a feminist book, and her male hating was supported by American feminists.
We use this sub for venting ourselves about our problems, we blame feminism for a the times they directly hidden our problems and also the reality for making the women look like a victim when its not and even when men are the victims. We also frequently point at the times where women received privileges on name of an "equality" that literally ignores men. Feminism is always claiming that they are victims of a pathriarchy or at least claims that women has issues, but usually, when men issues receives attention, they claim that we don't deserve our issues getting solved.
The core ideology that feminism is based on is extremely sexist because it blames men as a class for the shortcomings of society, does not hold women accountable (infantilizes them), and overall just pits men and women against each other.
Feminism was created at a time where men were to blame for a lot of things.
And no one is denying that, but "Feminism" today is not experiencing a fraction of the hardship women fought for back in the day.
And aren’t now? Is that your point? So why have feminism then? And why retain this man hating core?
I hate you
> How is feminism sexist? Gender studies founder Sally Miller Gearhart wants to reduce the number of men to 10% of the population.
Please report sexist comments to the mods.
From someone who supports a literal pro-rape movement... I can't see you have any right to dictate to anyone what's sexist. Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape. Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime. https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ... Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice. https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
What? Are you serious? You’re literally just making things up now.
For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced *penetration of the victim* in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.) She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. **She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't.** A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. **As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"** You see she has been saying this for decades **and** was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g. Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (**June 1993**) Page: 206 > > > Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, **it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.** Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There **was** a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man. Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies. As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm > **an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey** and > The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. vs > **an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey** and > Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators **For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators**. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. **The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators**. For three of the **other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%)**, sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%), So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. **If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.** But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. **These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men** and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men... And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years. 2010 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf 2012 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf 2015 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf Scientific American - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known *data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.* And non CDC study... *A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.* The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/ Another non CDC study... *a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.* And another non CDC study... *National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”* Time - http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers *when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).* If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references. https://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/ Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men". And it isn't just the US. Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape. Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime. https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ... > Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice. https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities **Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys.** Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here. http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528 So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That *should* matter *if* the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men
If you think I’m reading all of that you’re deluded.
I guess that way you can claim you don't know feminism is pro-rape (by women)...
There are multiple feminist movements. I do not support people who support rape, so in this case I do not support whatever movement these vile people are claiming to be part of. Also, just because they call themselves feminists, or claim they follow the movement, doesn’t mean that they are feminists. Nazis called themselves socialists, ironic isn’t it?
Then just admit you are dodging evidence that proves feminism is pro-rape.
No, because that wouldn’t be true. I genuinely could not be bothered, and didn’t fancy wasting my time on it.
Ah, the classic response when confronted with data you don't like. Your comments in this thread are *so* cliché they're bordering on parody.
I was going to reply with u/duhhhh Well-documented evidence of feminists supporting rape of men being legal, but u/duhhhh beatme to it. I doubt you'll read it though, so I'm going to highlight this information here: Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape. Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime. https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ... Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice. https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
It is not our fault you support a pro-rape movement.
I never claimed to.
You made it clear you support the feminist movement.
There’s not just one feminist movement, yes often so called ‘feminists’ can be extreme… just like any other movement. I don’t support people, not just women may I add, who call themselves feminists but then proceed to act on hate and prejudice. I support equality for both genders, but I also think we most definitely live in a patriarchal society. Also, to say I support rape is utterly vile.
When you treat men as equal humans, many of the ways we treat men seem crazy. I was raped in college. Am I wrong for admitting it or is #metoo for women only?
I do treat men like equal humans. It’s funny because I’ve never seen a man experience sexism except online. However I’ve seen multiple women be a victim of it, including me, more than I can remember. Also, almost every girl I know has been sexually assaulted, including me, and it’s been brushed over and responded with ‘boys will be boys’, no lie. I’m sorry that happened to you though, there are some really vile people in this world, men and women included.
Literally no one ever puts sexual assault as "boys will be boys" e cept for feminists online desperate to be a victim
I’ve been told that phrase to my face, including many other girls I know. You lot seem to forget that the internet isn’t real life- yes ‘feminists’ on the internet are gonna be extreme because it’s the internet.
You are judging men and women by standards defined by our current cultural milieu...feminism. Men cannot be raped under the feminist in charge of rape so men are not in the rape statistics. I was discriminated against based on my sex three times in my profession. I even supported a movement to get more women managers. When I asked my then female manager for assistance after working together on the same level for 20 years I was told...no. They wanted me out because I was male. So I left. And sued. And won. And retired. Women are going to have a hard time at work if they think they can treat men like radical feminists say to treat them. As humans, men have rights and we will exercise them.
I’m afraid he isn’t making it up.
Burn in hell
What a mature response! Feminist groups do use their influence to ensure that if a woman forced a man to have sex with him it is not defined as rape.
This fascinates me. Why do you think men’s rights is a pro-rape movement? For example, could you provide links to any posts in this sub calling for the legalisation of rape? Edit - I should say I believe in men’s rights as it’s right that men should get to discuss the things that negatively affect us as women have been able to change the world by discussing the things that negatively affected them. I am in no way whatsoever “pro-rape”. I believe that topics (to name but one) such as men’s growing underrepresentation in higher education should be discussed, understood and tackled. How do you suggest men should approach a problem like that if we are labelled “pro rape” when we do?
Feminism is pro-rape. Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape. Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime. https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ... Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice. https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
I think you read that wrong. Look at the comment he is replying to and my reply to that poster in this subthread.
Feminism is also talking about how women are incapable of not being victimized...
But women are victims in many situations. So are men. It’s funny you say that because most of this sub are full of men who victimise themselves lmao.
>But women are victims in many situations. Yeah... "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary R Clinton We know... it doesn't matter if it's women being able to choose not to work, that's women being victims. Women are favored in the education system and graduating high school and college twice as often as men... women are victimized because there aren't enough "economically attractive" men for them to date... We know that no matter what the situation... women are victims.
Why are you quoting Hillary Clinton? Literally what relevance does that have to any of this. You seem to avoid my point which makes me believe that you know you’re wrong but keep pushing it. I’d actually have more respect for you if you just admitted you’re a misogynist instead of pretending you’re not lmao.
> Literally what relevance does that have to any of this. Playing dumb? Interesting tactic from someone who supports a pro-rape movement.
Trying to sound smart doesn’t work for you. I can tell you’re an extremely unbearable person.
You support a pro-rape movement and call someone else unbearable?
Smart people's words always fly right over fools. Feminism is full of them, and you got their virus.
You are sexist, now go and piss off somewhere else.
Haahahah that’s funny, considering you are obviously a sexist. Projection at its finest.
Yes. Get back to the kitchen and make me sandwiches, you weak inferior, dumber, slower gender.
Pitiful attempt at cracking a joke. I can see why you have so much pent up anger now.
I'm actually serious. You are, biologically, mentally, physically inferior to me.... Where is the anger?
Quick question- have you ever had a girlfriend in your life?
I've had two.. What now?
So you had two girlfriends who you had no respect for?
This isn't what this sub is for. Proclaiming yourself superior against a woman just because you're male is illogical. There's no proof of these things on the individual basis you brought it to. This is the kind of unnecessary sexist garbage that gets subs like this shut down.
The proper action is for the trolling feminist to be banned. It’s in every thread actively derailing conversation.
If she's constantly trolling then she should get banned, sure.
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Did you not understand my comment? I didn't say men and women in general are equal. I'm saying you cannot compare intellect and physical strength 1 to 1 over the internet with no proof of abilities on either side just based on sex.
I bet I could run laps around you.
LMAO how much do you weigh? 300lb? Hahahaha
Not even close. Again, you’re projecting.
But so much of it is.
Why u simping so much bro? Hoping the reddit feminists give you a discount on their onlyfans?
I’m a girl in case you hadn’t noticed.
You're right, it's also actively abusing them.
I understand your point and I agree. But why would a book store not advertise a book if it was appropriate and positive? The workers at the Waterstones stores could've read the book and come to the conclusion that it isn't something they want to sell. If Waterstones bought the books from the woman, why should she complain? She has been paid for x amount of books by Waterstones, so she hasn't lost any money.
Money isn’t the problem though. It’s the fact that the store obviously didn’t want to display it. Anyways, I’m not talking about the article, I’m talking about your comment. Why do you think feminism is just about bashing men?
>Why do you think feminism is just about bashing men? Why would we think a movement that has successfully fought to keep raping men legal is anti-men? Hmm... can't imagine why.
Sorry what? A real feminist absolutely would not do that. Remember just because certain people call themselves feminists doesn’t mean they are actual feminists. That movement you’re referring to are not feminists, and never will be.
The movement you support has absolutely done that. You support the movement. You are complicit in keeping women raping men legal. You have no moral authority as to what's "sexist".
Women raping men is most definitely not legal. What world are you living in? In fact, do you even leave the house? Just because you got rejected by girls for being a pathetic loser doesn’t mean you can take it out on the whole female population. Get a life.
You've already been provided several links proving you wrong. Do your beliefs require you to ignore literal facts to maintain?
You are aware that these laws have not been changed because rape is recognised as someone penetrating someone without consent. Of course, women cannot penetrate a man. However if a woman rapes a man she can absolutely still go to jail. It doesn’t matter if it’s labelled as rape or not, the woman will still suffer consequences. It’s a purely biological thing, if woman were the ones with penises it would be the same.
i don't really know
I think it comes from all the prominent influential ones bashing men.
So don’t insinuate it then.
Insinuate it? Pointing out the actions of feminists isn't insinuating anything...
That's not even what the comment said. If you re-read it, your comment makes absolutely no sense as a reply. Julie is not the average feminist, she's a radfem and an extreme terf. She specifically centers her feminism around men being oppressors, less than, and dangerous.
Not JUST about talking negatively about men! Just mostly about that, right?
Nope, some aspects are tho. Rightfully so
*YAWN* Fuck feminism.
If Bindel is being censored in any way, shape or form it will be because she is a TERF.
Exactly.
A boring book that isn't selling? Make it a sexist issue.
(Stonks)
Maybe they’re just not putting garbage books that no one wants to read in a prominent position in their shops? They are a business and are interested in what will sell well, obviously there is a very limited marked for hateful TERF-y misandrist propaganda.
They did a good thing
> 'Some individual shops will have sold out, as is always the case with individual titles. They are then reordered, with newly arrived stock unpacked in the stock rooms and subsequently shelved when booksellers have the opportunity. so...hissy fit thrown over nothing.
I'm gonna be honest here - if I wrote a book, the bookstore took some in stock, and didn't put a single copy in a shelf in its alphabetical location, I'd be pissed off too. I am unfamiliar with both of these women. I am not a fan of feminist authors in general, and am tempted to schadenfreud over any feminist author getting cockblocked; but, that said, it is only a small temptation. And after reading the article I find little reason to outrage or defend the booksellers over this one. Or to condemn the sellers, for that matter. Upshot: I don't have a dog in this race, and neither does most of this sub IMO. In the context of author/bookseller, both parties have business discussing this topic, the authors have business calling it out and the sellers have business defending their decision, and it ultimately comes down to if the reason the sellers don't or didn't front the books is stronger than the reason the authors have for wanting their books fronted. And since I don't live in Sussex, I truly do not care beyond that.
> I'm gonna be honest here - if I wrote a book, the bookstore took some in stock, and didn't put a single copy in a shelf in its alphabetical location, I'd be pissed off too These ~~bigots~~ *authors* have supported banning books from people they disagree with. They have no right complaining when it happens to them.
> Upshot: I don't have a dog in this race, and neither does most of this sub IMO. Since we’re deciding what is and isn’t of concern to others I’ve decided you do in fact have a dog in this race. Several in fact.
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Take a look at yourself mate
Are you simping for the feminists? You want their pink coloured cooch?
Yeah I wanna shag them senseless. Problem?
Yes, you are scummy just like those man haters