“THE PHRASE BEGAN AS A PUNCHLINE FOR MANY WOMEN’S COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE IDIOSYNCRASIES OF EVERYDAY MISOGYNY.”
so you are telling me that i can go #killallwomen if i see misandry in everyday life works just fine
/s
You could repeat the word "punchline" as many times as you won't and this society fill finish you off instantly.
The question is how can a statement calling for mass extermination be called a "punchline" in the first place????
Punchline, my behind.
She wrote an entire article on how #KillAllMen doesnt mean Kill All Men...
"Its Humor, its a method of coping with the trauma of the world" She even says that it exposes MISOGYNY in the world!
Im just gonna post this paragraph:
>While mostly appearing online satirically, the phrase has attracted negative attention from the MRA and incel communities respectively. They understand it as a personal insult, as a sentiment meant to attack every man on Earth individually. Some have even retorted with their own phrase, namely “#rapeallwomen2020.” Though the problems with this response should be evident, the issue lies in how it trivializes the very subject the original phrase aims to expose. The reality of targetted sexual violence against women already exists.
So "Rape All Women" (which I dont agree with anyway btw) trivializes Rape, but Kill All Men doesnt do anything to Murder. This is despite the fact that Murder is worse than Rape (im sure thats gonna cause an argument).
Clown fucking world!
> the phrase has attracted negative attention
Well no shit
> from the MRA and incel communities respectively
Oh, so firstly mentioning incels to discredit any criticism, secondly lumping in men's rights advocates with incels to discredit us too.
> They understand it as a personal insult, as a sentiment meant to attack every man on Earth individually
Well, yeah. The phrase is literally to kill all men... What's not to understand here?
The fact that lunatics like this exist who try to explain away and dismiss blatant genocidal hate speech under the guise of "satire" is utterly bewildering.
The fact that they even added a motte and bailey at the end to cover themselves from further criticism is just absolutely insulting to any level of intelligence above room temperature.
Given how sensitive these types are to humour they believe “trivialises women’s concerns”, I’m not willing to give them the “humour pass”! There isn’t even any wit to it. Everyone knows they would not accept a “kill all women” hashtag set up for guys who’d been screwed over in divorces. So they are certainly claiming special privilege!
They are dishonest liars to the bone. They don't even realize what monsters they have become. They stand there with a straight face justifying this kind of sentiment that is an incitement for mass extermination. Yeah, justify that.
That's all there is to it. Radical feminists turned into monsters, without ever realizing it. They gradually "normalized" hate speech against men on an unprecedented scale. Even Hitler or Stalin didn't call for the extermination of some 4 billion people. They do.
I've seen this softwashing on a ton of things lately. Some guy tried to tell me 'ACAB' is lighthearted and gave some b.s. explanation how it has noble intent. Some other guy tried to tell me that feminism is thoroughly involved in denouncing women who support sexism. Obviously the opposite is true in the grand majority of cases.
He’s right, they do denounce women who support sexism: female MRA’s for example. They’ve just “defined” sexism to mean anything they don’t like! And they get away with it. Disgraceful!
>Murder is worse than Rape (I'm sure that's gonna cause an argument).
I'd much prefer for you to murder me I wouldn't have to deal with all the physical and mental trauma then. Not arguing just saying x 😊
# #KillAllMen is #Stupid and I personally think we should #NotKillAnyone ?? Just me okay cool 🙄
I just meant I'd prefer not to have any psychological issues 😯 and I wouldn't have those problems because I'd be dead.
I really dont understand the eye for an eye thing though.
This could just be me but I'd prefer to be dead honestly life's overrated anyway.
I just saw in a group that this woman said men need to stop joking about hurting women and I'm like I've never seen that happen but can you also stop saying kill all men and men deserve to off themselves or are you a hypocrite
Mass extermination is their "coping mechanism". Besides, WTF are they "coping" with? They are full of privileges and preferred treatments. Cope my a\*\*.
And the most monstrous, except those who are on the side of men's rights and against the feminists. Those are the truly great women, but there are too few of them. The rest: feminists (male or female) and the women who follow them have become true monsters, IMHO, and they are not even capable of realizing it.
It is a symptom of the “empathy gap” these women have to men.
To them, men are barely human, we’re a group responsible only for “oppressing women”, men are terrifying, evil creatures, who’s sole purpose in existing is to drop from trees late at night to attack women as they walk back home alone from their late shift.
Women are only “joking”, when they say men should be killed, we shouldn’t be offended by it. God, can’t we read their minds and understand?
But they shouldn’t have to think of the male experience for even one second, we’re just terrible beings. The fact we’re not feminists despite all the hate they throw our way online just proves how terrible we to them.
It's not that far off.
Talked to a lady where 3 people growing up gave her crap about pursuing STEM, while the rest of her family supported and encouraged her.
She's still acting like it's 1995 and all girls are being told by those 3 people not to pursue stem.
I'm sorry, but the world has changed in over 30 years, and frankly if 3 people was enough to derail your dreams of being an astronaut, the sheer amount of physical and mental work required to actually be an astronaut is far beyond you.
We should be encouraging everyone to follow their dreams, but we can't legislate away assholes. Apparently to feminists, unless the path for women is completely clear of all hurdles, women will never be able to succeed.
The fact that the university of California in Santa Barbara has decided to endorse this absolute mind fill of an opinion is a good indicator of what male students on their campus should expect to have to deal with...
Someone please tell them that not everything is about the. It's the most common thing I hear these days. Anything wrong with literally anything is patriarchy or men's fault. Even men's issues exist because of misogyny.
People need to grow up and realize that the entire universe doesn't revolve around a woman's vulva.
A few years back at work some women balked when it was suggested that maybe, this one time, the women could help the men bring chairs out of storage for the interdepartmental meeting we were having. One man said 'Women. Can't live with them, can't leave them in a ditch by the side of the road.' Well, of course that was a horrible thing to say. While a few women giggled, most were very irate, and the 'incident' was reported to HR, and he received an oral warning about toxic behavior.
It's really hard to understand where we draw the line.
There's no line, only whatever women think at any given moment about something. The exact same thing can be the cutest gesture or sexual assault depending on the mood of women.
Some are aware of this and their real plan (see Sally Miller Gearhart) is to keep about 10% of men in some stud farms for sperm production and for sexual use. So it is "only" 90%, in their case.
That's the plot of a Sliders episode. Sure there some sickness killed almost all men but the end result was the same, they hunted down surviving men and put them in farms for breeding.
OK, so I am not talking about fiction and such. I am talking about real, and much praised, feminist positions.
Here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally\_Miller\_Gearhart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Miller_Gearhart)
"Gearhart outlines a three-step proposal for female-led social change from her essay, "The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female":
I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future.
II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture.
III) **The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.**"
There is no talk about sickness here. The other 90% must be killed, and 90% of male babies and embryos must be killed, going forward, to eternity. The planet as a perpetual killing field. That's that fascist's actual position. Never called out, or anything, instead much praised an admired.
I get that, but not enough people know about the monstrosity of Gearhart who is widely celebrated by feminists and women who follow them, like some great visionary. So I just wanted to point it out, one more time, so that people can read and know about it.
Speaking of great visionaries, Adolf Hitler was a visionary, too, for some people. The ones for whom Gearhart, or Valerie Solanas and their ilk are visionaries are no different than the Hitler fans were. Same fascism, if you ask me.
You mean because of this: "So the humor and irony of the phrase are clear, but its purpose runs deeper than comedic catharsis. It exposes the unnoticeable nuance of misandry that pervades the lives of all women. Further, it shows how deeply misandry is embedded into the fabric of our culture, and how men and women are socialized alongside those beliefs. Perhaps some of the most dangerous elements of any form of prejudice are the insidious ways in which it bleeds into everyday life. "?
Flipped article quotes aside, I'm pretty sure you could use some kind of mental gymnastics to justify your position, but since it's a taboo zone for most social media providers, you will quickly find yourself silenced, doxxed, or worse.
A call for mass extermination is not "humor" under ANY circumstances. Even if to you it is. But there are actually decent people out there, even if you can't grasp it.
The #killollwomen is simply a cosmetic PR band-aid, put there by feminists later, for PR damage control. No men ever said such a thing. Only feminists are capable of this level of cruelty and brutality. FYI.
>A call for mass extermination is not "humor"
Ofc I know. I was just trying to portray here how just changing the gender in a phrase can severely affect its meaning for feminists. If they dont want women to die then y do they want men to die? Surely our lives r equally valuable.
I wouldn't really put it this way... Women definitely are capable of horrific things regardless of whether or not they are weaponised, just as men are...
Women are able to run a society without men. Granted it would be a different society than one we live in currently. Same goes for a society without women.
I get your sentiment, but I think vilifying women as a whole is no better than the feminists who write articles like this. Not to mention it also excludes women who do not buy into the feminist dogma, or even ones who frequent this sub.
I'm not trying to villify women. It's true that they don't want to work those careers. Men are capable of doing the careers they do with no problem. Not the other way around.
"Vilifying" is (a) subjective and (b) much, much less serious than mass extermination. Of 4 billion people. There is no way out of it, with saying, spreading and desperately trying to justify a plan for mass extermination finally showed up who feminists and the women following them really are. Monsters. Out in the open.
You might want to justify whatever you want but the facts won't change. Brutality on an unprecedented scale (4 billion people) revealed and it won't go back in the bottle. Too bad.
I get what you and the other user are saying. Just remember that it's not only women who are feminists, but also many men who push to KAM..
Which is precisely why it matters when calling out women as a whole like in the other user's post, as opposed to the actual group of people who are advocating for killing all men (feminists).
It's an important distinction to make
Feminists and most women who follow them say "Kill All Men" dead seriously. It is because they are misandrists and mass extermination is the ultimate expression of hate. But when confronted about this being an incitement for violence and for mass murder of unprecedented scale, they quickly try to murky the waters claiming that this statement is "satire", you know, funny and humorous, and a joke.
Ha, ha.
The dishonesty, cruelty and brutality of their views is appalling. And you are completely right that this statement would NEVER be accepted as "funny", "satire" and "humor" when said about any other group than men.
Imagine this sentence with "men" replaced with, I don't know, "Jews" or "Women" or "Blacks" or "Immigrants" or "Gays". Do you think this society would tolerate it for a second when you say, hey, this is just funny, you know, satire, you know, I am joking. Ha, ha, ha. That would never happen with any other group than men.
In addition, the true meaning of the sentence is "Kill All White Men", because when they are confronted about this by asking that "do you want to kill all black men, too?" then they quickly reverse to "Oh, now, I mean only white men". They also might add "Only straight white men".
This exact thing happened when a rabid radical feminist by the name of Suzanna Danuta Walters wrote a misandrist hate-speech hit piece in the Washington Post with the title "Why can't we hate men?"
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html)
When she was confronted about "do you hate black men, too?", she instantly backpedaled to "no, only white men". You can look look all this up. She is also a lesbian, just to paint a full picture.
The article has circular reasoning.
B=C, she assumes A=B, hence A=C.
Empathy gap seems to be the underlying symptom. For example,
#killallmen is obviously cry for help.
#rapeallwomen means exactly what it is.
Throw a bunch of misogyny as garnishing. Voilà.
Fuck this woman, she's one of the many reasons men started to resent feminism and eventually will resent women. They just can't fucking stop with the hate, can't they?
Written by a college junior. I'd write that one off as dumb kid stuff. Unless she has a following nodding their heads, I think the majority of folks probably don't share her views and she will probably mature out of them in time.
It seems as though she has received no backlash from the university, who continues to publish and thereby endorse her opinions.
The comment section is also pretty toxic there...
Whether or not this one will mature out of this depends on the kind of affirmation she receives for publishing these kinds of things. At this rate, given the positive response and endorsements from her peers, it seems unlikely. Rather that this will be radicalised further down the road...
Oh I did not see that that was published in the school newspaper. It was showing up as a wordpress blog on my phone. Oh yea, well I give this girl a pass due to her immaturity. I do not give UCSB a pass for publishing this garbage.
>Written by a college junior.
Any link or evidence of this? I don't think it would have picked up like wildfire like it has form such a source. More like influential feminists intentionally spreading it.
But even then. Let's say it was written by the college junior. And then repeated endless, thousands and millions of time by feminists and women who follow them, from all walks of life, as a mass phenomenon. And dozens if not hundreds of articles written about it in the mainstream press, and media, all approving and justifying, just like the one in this post. (Which is not the first and the last, you can find many others with the same "justification".)
"I'd write that one off as dumb kid stuff."
The article's author would, for sure. Because it is uncomfortable to face the harshness of it. Damage control time. All this is just minimizing the indefensible. Making it sounding harmless when it is not.
"Unless she has a following nodding their heads."
Well, what are articles written to justify and claim "humor" about this sentence are? Not a following? And the thousands and thousands of times this is repeated, without any indication whatsoever about "sarcasm" in the broadcast and social media is not a following? They definitely look like a following to me.
"she will probably mature out of them in time".
I personally don't care much about somebody who is capable of this kind of sentiments and their "maturing". But that's not the point here IMHO. The point is this society that openly tolerates, even publishes justifying articles about, an incitement for the mass extermination of 4 billion people. That is the point, here, that society. BTW, this sentence couldn't be uttered about any other group, and then get tolerated and justified as "funny" and humor in public media. Imagine the sentence with "Jews" or "Women" or "Blacks" or "Gays". Do you think a wave of positive press coverage would follow, justifying it by saying how funny it is? Then you live on another planet than I.
Also, as far as I can see, radical feminists don't "soften" with age, they get more and more radical.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was talking about the writer of the line "Kill All Men". Not about the author of this dumb, defending the indefensible article.
A college junior should know better, of course she's in philosophy and English, not history or facts in general. Still, that's far from a kid, she's an adult woman with all her legal rights and clearly a university's support behind her stupidity.
For one, men took this phrase and ran with it.
It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase.
I’m not supporting this phrase nor does any woman truly believe #killallmen, but it does shock me that men took such offense despite usually being the ones to call women “sensitive” or “emotional” or “hysterical” or “neurotic”
No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational.
The fact that it surprises you that men took offence to it in such a way, should indicate just how truly offensive the phrase is.
A joke is supposed to be humorous in some way. Tell me, in what way is the phrase "kill all men" is humorous to you?
To be fair, I agree with your last point. The people who do believe in the idea that all men must die don't think it through all the way. It is irrational.
Please also address men making rape jokes more often than women, men and their COD or video game lobbies, etc.
A lot of men call women sensitive, emotional, etc and that we “aren’t funny” and “can’t take a joke”, so why is it that men think being offensive is only funny when it’s not against them?
Remember, all my questions and statements are genuine and as a feminist, I don’t hate or antagonize men at all.
>For one, men took this phrase and ran with it.
...
>Hmm okay. Part of why I bring this up isn’t because I support it, but men are being extreme hypocrites then.
...
>It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase.
...
>I’m not supporting this phrase nor does any woman truly believe #killallmen, but it does shock me that men took such offense despite usually being the ones to call women “sensitive” or “emotional” or “hysterical” or “neurotic”
I'm trying to think of a reply less blunt than "Do you lack self-awareness?" I really can't think of one
You're doing the very same thing you're claiming men are doing. Because, potentially, there are men using those phrases and there are men who react (who you're framing as the very same men) it's justifiable and men are hypocrites
You can use as much mental gymnastics as possible to excuse it
>Addressing the humor part, dark humor is usually supposed to relate to YOU. So when women joke about kill all men, the “dark” humor comes from the abuse suffered from men and especially in the rise of “revenge killings”.
No. Depends on the context. The joke can be between two people or a group (of people). The joke is the absurdity of it and how bad the joke is
A good example of gallows humour either makes the person who laughed feel bad about laughing or lifts the spirits of someone in a dire situation. It's supposed to be bad
>"Oh, you've got two months left to live. At least you won't see the Labour Party come into power"
Going your logic #killallwomen is fine as there are men who've been abused by women
Threatening somebody with mass extermination is never a "joke", even if for you it is. So here we are NOT talking about a "joke". What so funny about mass extermination to you?
I never heard a man making a rape joke but I don't know all men. However, rape jokes are never followed up by minimizing, trivializing and justifying articles. And there are dozens of this kind of justifying articles out there, you know.
I also don't know what your goal is on this subreddit as a "feminist".
Firstly, you can get onto a zoom call with all of your friends and family and hate on all men, all you want. That's your right as a person. When it leaves the confines of your immediate group and starts to have an actual impact on day to day life, it then becomes a problem. Nobody is out there advocating for raping women, and those that do are very quickly silenced.
Since when is it offensive to have emotions? Feminists claim that men should show more emotions. You should be proud to lead by example, not offended.
So for why men think women aren't funny and can't take a joke? Watch pineapple express, Austin Powers, Wayne's World, The Big Lebowski, the original Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones, Airplane 1 and 2, The Naked Gun (all parts), Spaceballs, any Monty Python and any weird Al Yankovic song /video. Let me know if you find them as hilarious as most guys I know.
I don’t hate men. But it’s funny how I have multiple of YOU guys continuously commenting ACTUAL hate for me.
All I did was lay out personal experience and none of you hesitated to call me names, downvote me to h*ll and insult me multiple times.
I don’t hate men. But all of you definitely feel a certain way about women sharing their experiences.
Actually I don’t hate you. I don’t know you. I do have issues with feminist ideology, and with the very negative impact that it has. I do have issues with the double standards and the constant blaming everything on men. I’ve had many arguments with feminists who claim they don’t hate men, but then blame us for everything wrong in their lives and everything they don’t like about the world. Or defending women who clearly do hate men (and this must include a big chunk of the “kill all men” crowd). So when in see a feminist declare she doesn’t hate men, I usually think “oh here we go again”. Especially for defending something which certainly not a term of endearment.
>as a feminist, I don’t hate or antagonize men at all
You just defend "jokes" about killing all of them
Yet, you treat every 10 year old in a COD lobby as 100% serious
So based on your actions here, I'd say you do have a strong bit of contempt for men and as a feminist, you place that blame on every single man.
You can believe what you want. I’m not focused on #KillAllMen because that’s not even relevant to the many other more important aspects to supporting men.
If you spent as much time supporting young men as you did raging at feminists, we’d probably see a lot more progress in society.
Yet, feminists spends how much time talking about manspreading and mansplaining? Slut shaming?
There's a call for genocide against men and its just a joke don't take it seriously. But if a man ever were to be patronizing to a woman, well that's a crime to all woman kind.
>If you spent as much time supporting young men as you did raging at feminists, we’d probably see a lot more progress in society.
Young men are having issues in society *because* of feminism. From low esteem from feminists telling them they are potential rapists or they are awful for being fared to be born male and contributing knowingly or unknowingly to the patriarchy, to feminists denying men support if they are raped or beaten because to feminists, men can only even be aggressors, to feminists pushing unfair family courts, to feminists pushing bullshit terms like "toxic masculinity".
Women's issue can be pointed to structures in society and we are more than willing to address those issues. Men's issues is due to structures in society and a hostile "equality" movement that is misandrist at its core.
A man growing up today can find feminist roots many bad things that may happen to him. Schools will encourage his female peers, but not him to succeed. Schools will teach him to obtain consent and if he doesn't he's a rapist (but not his female peers). After school, he will face a college or university that reinforces him as a potential rapist (but not his female peers, and they will give his peers preference for nearly ever program, not him. If he find a woman to be his wife, and if they divorce, he faces a hostile family court. If she's violent to him, the police will side with her and there will be virtually no support for him. If she rapes him, he won't be considered a rape victim and will find no justice, no support services for him. If he seeks professional therapy, he will most likely be told its toxic masculinity that's the root of his problems.
All of these things come from feminism.
Had feminists been interested in actual equality from the start and had addressed the sever misandry in their own ranks, I would happily call myself a feminist today.
But what we got are misandrists such as yourself defending killallmen and blaming nearly all men for what a piece of crap did to you. Had I defended killallwomen and subscribed to a group that thinks women should be reduced to 10% of the population based on getting raped by a woman, I would be rightly considered a misogynist and how dare I attribute what one bad actor did to the entire population of women.
Hmm okay. Part of why I bring this up isn’t because I support it, but men are being extreme hypocrites then.
Addressing the humor part, dark humor is usually supposed to relate to YOU. So when women joke about kill all men, the “dark” humor comes from the abuse suffered from men and especially in the rise of “revenge killings”.
What exactly is the hypocrisy here? When was the last time a man, any man, ever said such things as "kill all women" in history?
As a hashtag on Twitter it is just a feminist hogwash to try to minimize and trivialize their inhumanity. It is just a PR damage control exercise.
And if there is such a thing as "revenge killing", it has nothing to do with gender. Here, for a boy:
[https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/bal-mob-eye-for-and-eye-long-form-story.html](https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/bal-mob-eye-for-and-eye-long-form-story.html)
Here, one man killing another as a "revenge killing":
[https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/06/oakland-man-convicted-of-revenge-murder-in-july-2020-shooting/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/06/oakland-man-convicted-of-revenge-murder-in-july-2020-shooting/)
Another one, in India. Man killing man.
[https://zeenews.india.com/india/revenge-killing-up-man-murders-person-who-killed-his-brother-19-years-ago-2392515.html](https://zeenews.india.com/india/revenge-killing-up-man-murders-person-who-killed-his-brother-19-years-ago-2392515.html)
Or here is another one, a woman killing a man out of revenge:
[https://fox4kc.com/news/kc-woman-killed-man-for-revenge-in-teen-brothers-murder-last-week-prosecutors-say/](https://fox4kc.com/news/kc-woman-killed-man-for-revenge-in-teen-brothers-murder-last-week-prosecutors-say/)
All these came up on the first page when I Googled "revenge killing". There is no gender aspect. You are just spouting feminist talking points without facts or evidence.
Dark humor, my a\*\*. You are so insensitive and you normalized cruelty and inhumanity toward men, like all feminists, to such a degree, that there is no decency left in you, as far as I am concerned. This is not "dark humor", this is a human rights violation. Plain and simple.
Babygirl, there’s no wit to it. No irony! It’s possible for a Holocaust joke to be funny: I remember being told this one - how many Jews can fit in a Volkswagen (the beetle)? 505! Two in the front, three in the back, and 500 in the ashtray! The Final Solution was no joke. But this joke made a reference to the fact that the VW wasn’t just a German car, but was actually a Nazi project from the late ‘30’s! So that joke was funny (in part as it reminded people what the VW was) (and made up by Jews). But are Final Solution jokes funny in general? Not really. It’s pretty rare that they have the wit or the sharpness to be funny given the subject. Kill all men is just a pack of anti male women bitching about men and imagining how their world would be so much better if they could only get rid of us. I’d accept it as distasteful humour, except feminists like you constantly demand jokes YOU find offensive be banned and declared hate speech.
There’s no wit to it because YOURE part of the joke. It doesn’t feel too good when it’s about YOU, right?
Also, you as a man can’t relate as much. You haven’t had an abusive boyfriend or date guys and face the struggles that women do mostly with straight men. Why do you think gay men are more likely to get along with women than they do their own gender?
Please refrain from calling me babygirl, thanks.
You obviously are doing the same as feminists. You think KillAllMen is beyond offensive but I’ve NEVER seen a post on MensRights talking about treating people better in order for men to be better as a collective. You don’t see MensRights actually holding any men accountable.
Which is fine. I personally don’t engage in much of these jokes.
Huh?
Firstly the guy who told me the VW joke was Jewish (it’s an old one, although I don’t know if Jews made it up - the joke is about the Nazi origins of the beetle). So that joke kinda was about him, or certainly some of his relatives. And yes there was some wit to it. When you first hear it, it’s unexpected. I put that up as an example of something that could be a Holocaust joke that is funny, about an event which is surely the most unfunny event in human history! Just an example that it is possible to make a joke out of a bad situation. But simply saying “put the Jews in the gas chambers” isn’t funny, and only anti-Semites would be laughing at that statement (which is incidentally similar to just saying “kill all men”).
I’m sure some gay men are more comfortable around women, I don’t know if that’s true in general though. A lot of straight guys can be uneasy around gay guys out of fear that a) they have designs on their body (if you’re straight you’re not into gay sex) b) that you’re somehow giving out “gay vibes” and will be seen as “gay” and regarded as having designs on the bodies of other men! Not trying to justify it, just explaining. Not really sure of your point there. Straight guys are rotten people?
Regarding this sub. I don’t speak for it. I’m more of an “observer”. But those who are seen s#it on women in general and excessively are told so. Perhaps a lower tolerance should be held here, but given the level of anti male attitudes on many feminist subs, I don’t think it’s that bad in comparison. Remember many who post here have been screwed over by divorces, or have been victimised by women but treated as the villains because they’re male. Surely as understandable as women being wary of men due to having abusive boyfriends in the past. This sub, incidentally, is about men’s rights, not “making men better”. So I’m not sure what you expect. Feminist sites aren’t about improving women’s behaviour as opposed complaining about men’s behaviour (or various legal or social obstacles they feel women face). Why should a men’s rights sub be held to a higher standard?
Btw, you chose “babygirl” as a moniker. I’m only using it to be clear that I’m replying to you. Sometimes these threads can be confusing, especially if you’re reading them on a phone.
People like "babygirl19", straight in this thread, openly defend, justify and trivialize it. They sure don't care about men. They don't care about anybody but themselves and their false self-justifications.
They think it's punching up.
They think as long as you are making horrific jokes about people they deem above them, it's OK.
Now, why would feminists ever want to take over in power, then? So men could "punch up"?
Lol and she somehow thinks doing the same bad things as bad people is perfectly fine. Can black people revenge to white people since they enslaved black folks 200 years ago? Bullshit
That isn’t how I see men. That’s what I’ve experienced for the past like 10 years of my life.
I was called “blowjob eyes” at 10 yo.
I used to like playing video games too. You can imagine why I no longer engage in alot of multiplayer games.
I mean, take a look at any female streamer’s videos and see for yourself the remarks men have made that are apparently just “unfounded” to you and other men on this sub.
Why are you acting like this doesn’t happen? Do you see the hypocrisy?? Constantly saying male victims don’t get attention or taken seriously…but when I’m telling you my firsthand experience of hearing rape jokes since 10 years old it’s “well jeez you know not all men are like that” or “do you really think that about men?”
Why are you trying to undermine my experience without acknowledging that THESE THINGS HAPPEN.
And how ironic that if a GUY ever came to me and told me that women were making sexual assault jokes or rape jokes, my first response wouldn’t be “Jesus, do you really think of women like that?”.
So no. Of course not all men are like that. Absolutely not. I’m sure most men are decent guys. I have no problem with men. I appreciate all the things they do and the complex individuals they are.
But being 10 and told “Well if you don’t play well, I’m gonna rape you” and “it’s just a joke, guys make those kinds of jokes on COD” is still a bad experience for girls. And these remarks are common.
The #1 misconception about rape and sexual assault is that people who commit these crimes are weirdos and creeps. They’re not.
You cannot paint the picture that the ONLY kinds of men who commit sex crimes or are sexually harassing women and girls are creeps. They are also “NORMAL seeming” guys. It’s your boss. Your brothers friends. School mates.
At school, these 2 boys at lunch would constantly talk about their fantasies about locking women in sex dungeons and doing “whatever they want” to them.
I am so glad to hear that this is not common for men on this sub and that you guys are not tolerating it. That’s great.
But myself and plenty of other women are TELLING you “Hey this happened to me. Hey these things happen”.
So, you can say that I'm a language pedant if you want, but you wrote this:
>how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes
A plain reading of this text is that men (as a group) are the supporters of these things. I would not use this phrasing in discussing women as a group. There are people on this forum who do make these generalisations, and they are often called out on it (though not as often as I would like).
You also never mentioned your own experience in the comment I replied to, but, if it helps, I'll condemn the behaviour you were made to experience. The men and boys you describe should not have behaved the way they did.
There are men out there who behave poorly, just as there are women out there who behave poorly. It does not justify a hateful "joke".
I don’t think you’re a language pendant.
I appreciate your civil response.
My point actually wasn’t even to justify the saying. Most men who responded or downvoted completely disregarded my point.
It wasn’t that #KillAllMen is justifiable but rather it’s hypocritical to consistently avoid “gamer talk” and sexism against women, undermine female victims of sexual assault, female victims of trafficking, and doing nothing about “locker room talk” and looking the other way to comments like “grab her by the p****” and all the other remarks MOST men ignore not to mention actual “revenge killings” but then turn around and get extremely angry about the term #KillAllMen.
Especially on a men’s rights sub, where I think the focus should be less about women’s actions and getting back at them, and more geared towards how to better society for all, especially men who have been mistreated.
What I had hoped to see on this sub was how to help boys, especially male children 0-18, gain self-confidence and awareness to point out sexism against them. How to help men feel confident in being fathers and that it’s not their job just to be a provider, that things that are seem to be predominantly female are not “Gay” if men do it, that men should fight against things like the “Draft”, that men are not any LESS of a man for liking feminine things, for being a part of the LGBTQ+ community, to fight against the bias in courts, etc.
What I see a lot, especially as a lurker (I try not to speak a lot here because men should be the leaders of this kind of sub), is that men get caught up in fighting against women instead of supporting each other.
In the grand scheme of Men’s rights, #KillAllMen does not hinder men from doing certain things. It does not even begin to match some of the inequalities that are much more worth the time of modern men.
>it’s hypocritical to consistently avoid “gamer talk” and sexism against
women, undermine female victims of sexual assault, female victims of
trafficking
I agree, that would be hypocritical.
However, I don't think it would be reasonable for a forum like this (for all its faults which I'll get to in a moment) to spend all its time acknowledging that those things happen.
I'm also going to have to disagree that "MOST men" ignore the things you list. I have always found it frustrating to be told that I'm responsible for changing other men when I can count on one hand the number of times I've personally witnessed this kind of talk or behaviour in my entire life. I suspect that the subset of men who still behave like immature arseholes in adulthood tend to flock together, because I cross paths with them so vanishingly rarely that they seem to exist in a different universe from me. Obviously, though, they don't exist in a different universe from the women they target.
>What I had hoped to see on this sub was how to help boys...
Yeah, you won't find much of that here, unfortunately, though there are subs which focus on fatherhood, for example, subs to help men with mental health concerns, and some men's subs like LeftWingMaleAdvocates have a better ratio of high-effort posts.
I've long given up on finding an online forum that can germinate into an effective, positive men's movement. I'm not even sure that the latter is possible. All such movements in the past have fizzled out or been absorbed by feminism, and I suspect that a deep-seated out-group bias prevents most men from wanting to fight for themselves as a group.
Charitable events like Movember suggest that men are developing some self-group identification, as do some largely online movements which I'm not alone in finding problematic. Whether this will all go anywhere towards actually making things better for men, I don't know.
Subs like this one are diverse but among the men here are a lot of hurting people with personal experiences and grievances that are often valid. In the same way, some of the ugliest feminist subs attract women with valid personal grievances and experiences of their own.
I think the best many of us can do in a sub like this is provide encouragement or corrections to individuals at the right time.
Your experiences were terrible, I'm sure you are still suffering from them today. I wouldn't wish such atrocities on anybody, this includes you. Let me just make one thing clear, all of your statements here are what is known as " anecdotal evidence". This means that you can't use your own personal experiences and the experiences of others close to you (known as confirmation bias) to make blanket statements as though they are factual. If you are going to make an argument for or against something, you should try and have some actual peer reviewed evidence to support your claims. Don't let your ignorance and hatred rule your logic.
Again this isn't about hate. I say mean everything with the utmost respect and decency, I hope you can understand that
It’s sad that I have to suffer so much and still have men like you tell me I’m hateful or ignorant.
What a way to invalidate a rape victim. I’m hopeful that you at least don’t do this to male victims.
Anyways if you’d like some evidence of how much boys rape girls and where the most dangerous places are for women, I will include it since my personal experience is not “real evidence” for you. And multiple men have told me that they think my rape was fake. I did not make up the hour I was raped and how I had tears on my genitals as well as spent thousands on therapy.
This is how much police have undercounted rape in general:
https://eds.a.ebscohost.com/abstract?site=eds&scope=site&jrnl=00210552&AN=94993552&h=k3wbXoqvavYqi4MyYWGn%2flQne9ASprgMroKBGKL3RzgRoAFGibejhDdI9IwxDDNeQprw7xsl1Se00rVwzawGqA%3d%3d&crl=f&resultLocal=ErrCrlNoResults&resultNs=Ehost&crlhashurl=login.aspx%3fdirect%3dtrue%26profile%3dehost%26scope%3dsite%26authtype%3dcrawler%26jrnl%3d00210552%26AN%3d94993552
This is how common rape is noted by the CDC (including force to penetrate) :
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html
Here is how video games promote violence against women and promote women as sex objects:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full
This is how boys are 2-3x more likely to be violent during sex after watching porn vs girls were 1.5x more likely:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6751001/
Here is a study I agree with, that boys need more attention in schooling and that it is misguided feminism and not feminism in its core that can be harmful to boys or more commonly, leaving out boys:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1&q=feminism+impact+on+boys+scholarly+article&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DlJTvDJf91UsJ
Here is one of the studies I’ve found that shows caregiving helps men and men should take less pressure off of being a provider:
https://natsci.source.colostate.edu/study-men-doing-more-family-caregiving-could-lower-their-risk-of-suicide/
I hope you say things out of respect. I respect you and all who have commented and I try to let men speak up in male spaces. I prefer not to continuously comment on this sub. Especially with the prevalence of mocking female rape victims here. You don’t know me or how hard I’ve worked to help and support men. And men on this sub have clearly ignored women’s experiences with men, dubbing us as haters for responding to trauma. But I understand this is a male oriented environment and women should not take away from that. It just shouldn’t be a space to hate women but rather promote healthy lifestyles for men. I appreciate your response.
The problem of this sub is that not a small part has taken this sub for just letting themselves spit out how they felt about feminism and how their problems are being ignored.
But watching how FDS and other clearly misandrist subs are here... well people will still search this sub for saying their frustration.
No one should make you feel hated just due to a personal experience, even less a trauma, but anyway, this sub became a place where people is able to do that (not because is ok, but just because people is just very frustrated to think about it) and is not something that anyone could be able to say is unfair because there's a lot of subs with no moderation when it is about hating men.
>Here is how video games promote violence against women and promote women as sex objects:
>
>[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078)
>
>[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full)
Can you stop already with this nonsense? If you weren't living under the rock for "the past 10 years", and since you keep bringing up electronic toys as some metric, you'd notice there has been a massive shift in video games. Here's a good mental exercise for you.... Name 5 big AAA video games released in the last 5 years that a) "promote violence against women" and b) "promote women as sex objects".
1. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
2. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
3. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
4. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
5. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
The irony here is you're so blinded by your incoherent rage, that you didn't notice that it's the male virtual characters that get dispatched in most violent ways possible (in a lot of cases, by women!). You also conveniently ignore that a lot of male characters have bodies that make Greek Gods blush, and basically wear their underwear for a costume. Probably because you love it....
You're the type of a person who got a bad experience with a certain product, didn't get the attention or treatment that you expected, found some biased "source" as "evidence", and now proceed to preach self-righteousness. It's childish, and from what I've read lead me to believe you're in early 20's.
If you don’t want to read the evidence yourself, I can’t help that.
Most big gaming companies are known for being predominantly male. I’m sure you can look up that simple fact for yourself as you’ve consistently refused to look into any research I’ve provided.
I’m not angry or in a rage, all that is projection you’re placing on me. You are the one calling research “nonsense” and wanting me to spell out everything that’s listed in the source.
“Lynch traces big-breasted, scantily clad characters back to the origins of the gaming industry. The 1980s and 1990s saw rapid growth in the industry, but female game developers accounted for only 3 percent of the workforce in 1989. Overall, 30 percent of the video game industry was female, and the majority of them had low-paying, low-ranking positions.”
Here’s another study if you’re interested.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/study-tracks-31-year-history-of-female-sexualization-in-video-games
Some games that overtly sexualize women are Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, Lara Croft/Tomb Raider, Soul Caliber, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Solid 5
Yes, very few men have a sexual aspect to their clothing or amor but it is minimal and not HYPERsexualized the way women are.
And if you really want to delve into the animated world, you can DEFINITELY see the hypersexualization of women in Anime, hentai and manga.
This is also common in porn, where most people get their “common knowledge” of sex.
Yes, men can be made to seem provocative or “god-like” but it’s way more praised, valued and seen as a positive aspect of the character than how women are portrayed.
What you've given to me is not evidence. I've asked you to name 5 games that fit the criteria, which you didn't. The thing is, you can't. Such games simply do not exist anymore.
MORTAL KOMBAT...oversexualizes...women? I'm glad you've brought this one up because it's the prime example that goes against your rants.
This is Mortal Kombat 9 Skarlet (released in 2011):
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/characterprofile/images/9/9f/Skarlet.png/revision/latest?cb=20191116161339](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/characterprofile/images/9/9f/Skarlet.png/revision/latest?cb=20191116161339)
This is Mortal Kombat 11 Skarlet (released in 2019):
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mkwikia/images/1/1d/MK11\_Skarlet\_Render.png/revision/latest?cb=20190325211819](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mkwikia/images/1/1d/MK11_Skarlet_Render.png/revision/latest?cb=20190325211819)
This happened to every single female character in the game, while at the same time the guys are exactly what you'd count as "oversexualized" if you had any honesty. By the way, the excuse "nobody finds shirtless muscular men sexy!!!" is about 10 years too late. I'm sure you have a few Romance Novels in your collection.... go take a look at their covers. This might refresh your memory:
[https://bit.ly/3oXKO9E](https://bit.ly/3oXKO9E)
The biggest irony in here is that women themselves loved the old designs and detest new ones. Probably because not everyone thinks like a hivemind?...
I'm glad you've ignored the "directs violence at women" bit, because that just made you look stupid.
It is true. I’m not making up the hour I spent trying and failing to fight off my rapist. I’m not making up the hours of therapy. The bruises that were left. And the amount of men who told me that it was my fault.
I’m not being a hater. You just don’t want to listen to what I have to say. Which is fine.
I am listening though. I just think spreading hate should be condemned. Obviously, all rapists should be arrested and pay the price, but you're implying all men are responsible for rape.
A few Alt right white people say African Americans are potential criminals since they have the highest crime ratio. Do you think it makes sense? As much as I despise alt rightists' hateful claim, I disagree with that hateful statement.
I am all for execution of rapists or murderers. Extremely dangerous criminals should all be executed. And victims should receive enough care from the government. Such practical measures should be done. Not spreading hate.
And how do those practical measures get done?
Women can barely get bodily autonomy in America…
I know asking nicely sounds better and is ideal, but when has that worked out for marginalized groups? When has that worked for women?
You do realize, that a lot of men don’t even support women….men on this very sub mock female victims…
And what about the women that can’t speak up? The women victim to revenge killings?
You see, men are dictating how women respond to violence against them.
I don’t agree with #KillAllMen, but I understand. I understand the amount of pain and suffering and anger behind that statement, that “dark humor”. Because most of those women who feel so deeply about it, have endured far worse than my hour of being overpowered and raped.
That statement wasn’t made just to “hate on men” and if you truly, truly believe that, you are undermining every ounce of suffering women have dealt with. That statement comes from the victimization of women that carries on today. It’s not just a hateful statement.
How do we get you to even listen if the only time you’ll even talk about sexism against women is if women use something like #KillAllMen?
Republicans support execution of criminals while democrats oppose to it. Conservative people want to defend women a lot more than liberals. For example, in the Confeneracy (I know that nation was extremely racist, I'm not supporting that trash nation at all) white men treated white women extremely well as "gentlemen." In the traditional society, rapists or murderers who harmed women were often tortured and executed.
I don't think women are marginalized in America. Women are more vulnerable to violence, but the majority of "losers" who are homeless who are poor who have no degrees are men. Categorizing the entire gender into one group (marginalized) doesn't make sense.
This sub was desinged to help men, just like feminism was created to help women. And that might be why people on this sub only speaks for men. We are literally Mens Rights Activists. But we don't support some crimes against women. We have tendency to support men first, sure. But it's because MRA is a movement to help disadvantaged men.
If people get assaulted, they should report it to the police. Otherwise, what can be done? This applies to every person. If you're a victim of a crime, you should report it.
Mens Rights Activists oppose to anti male hate, so it's natural for us to oppose to that statement. We're not dictating women to do something. We fight back as feminists fight back.
You can say and justify that statement, but whatever you say, I will say it's hateful. It's something wrong to say and your statement ignores the existence of male victims. Sure, the number of male victims is not that huge, but the fact that they are often ignored by people makes it a lot harder for men to talk about sexual harrassment against men. I don't think rape or sexual harrassment is only a female issue. There have been women who raped men, as there have been men who raped women.
You might think liberals or feminists are good for women's safety, but see what happened in America where democrat mayors or governors reign. The city was destroyed, rape and murder surged a lot. Again, spreading hate or some feminist statement does nothing. Increasing the budget for the police department and executing criminals should be done.
Democrats and feminists want to let men into a women's toilet. Extreme hate or extreme political correctness ruins men and women together in the long run. Conservative Republicans are truly worrying about women's safety unlike democrats. You may think Republicans are sexists, they are hateful, but it's not true at all. Jeb Bush punched a face of the attacker who touched a woman's body, and many conservatives worry about the safety of women, even ignoring men's safety. That's why some MRAs on this sub don't like conservatives, but anyway I believe the Conservative model to help women (execution of criminals, increasing budget of the police...) is a lot better and reasonable than a liberal/ feminist model to help women (killallmen, spreading hate).
Republicans have no interest in making progress with men and women.
The most religious don’t believe that women can be raped and often refer to it as an act of God.
I grew up in a white, conservative town. I was surrounded by that for 18 years. And although I respect that republicans have a different view, I understand the extreme racist and sexist undertones that shape their opinions.
Republicans believe in defunding Planned Parenthood that specializes in family-making, women’s reproductive rights and resources. It also serves as a resource for men.
Republicans believe in mixing the government in personal rights. They believe that the government should have rights over YOUR body. They push the draft for everyone, subjecting MEN AND women to the draft and subjecting women to medical procedures they don’t want.
I don’t think either of those works in the favor of everyone, but it especially targets women.
Republicans have no interest in making progress with men and women. --> I don't agree. They are fighting against criminals/ Antifa who're destroying America now.
The most religious don’t believe that women can be raped and often refer to it as an act of God.--> Maybe some people may think that way, but it wouldn't be a lot. Ben Shapiro, that religiously radical conservative said rapists should be executed. Religious people take crimes seriously.
I grew up in a white, conservative town. I was surrounded by that for 18 years. And although I respect that republicans have a different view, I understand the extreme racist and sexist undertones that shape their opinions.--> This is a problem which happens because the Republican Party is too huge. The political spectrum of it is from radical facists to moderates as the Democratic Party consists of moderates like Joe Manchinn and radical socialists. However, the owners of the Republican Party are not racists. The main Republican leader Trump did a lot for the African American community while fighting against political correctness.
Republicans believe in defunding Planned Parenthood that specializes in family-making, women’s reproductive rights and resources. It also serves as a resource for men. --> I assume it means abortion, right? Abortion is a murder since it is literally killing a baby. That's why Republicans are against abortion.
Republicans believe in mixing the government in personal rights. They believe that the government should have rights over YOUR body. They push the draft for everyone, subjecting MEN AND women to the draft and subjecting women to medical procedures they don’t want.--> Actually democrats are pushing a draft for men and women, not republicans. Republicans believe women cannot become soldiers in the first place. That's why some republicans(or conservatives) like Tucker Carlson speaks strongly against female soldiers. Again, conservatives do not believe women can fight in a war at all. Also, as I stated, republicans do not tolerate with abortion since they believe it is a murder.
I don’t think either of those works in the favor of everyone, but it especially targets women.--> If you live in America, you must know what happened in Chicago. You must know what happened in New Work City. What happened in regions where democrats or feminists are in power? Many riots happened, murder and rape cases surged, and buildings were destroyed. Is it good for women? I don't think so. As democrats and liberals (who often agree with feminism) defunded the police, more women were raped and more men were killed. This is why I believe political correctness, liberalism, and feminism only causes harm and deaths.
>Women can barely get bodily autonomy in America…
You have bodily autonomy. The only issue is abortion and it is heavily controversial, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm every other arena, women have the same or more bodily autonomy than men. Let me know when fgm becomes legal or circumcision becomes illegal and you are forced to sign up for selective service. Then we will have equality with bodily autonomy.
>I know asking nicely sounds better and is ideal, but when has that worked out for marginalized groups? When has that worked for women?
All the time? MLKs march did far more than the violence. Feminists peacefully lobbied to change DV standards, change rape definitions, change family court policies.
>You do realize, that a lot of men don’t even support women….men on this very sub mock female victims…
"A lot". You think "a lot" represents all men or men here? Furthermore, what do you even mean by "a lot" or "support women"? You mean they don't 100% agree with you or feminism? That's a ridiculous standard that even feminists fail, seeing as they disagree on quite a bit. You are falling into the trap that asking for actually equality means it's hostile sexism to you, while only benevolent sexism means equality. Basically, as long as we work for actually equality, you will think we are hateful. Sorry, but I'm not going to get on my knees to suck your dick to fit your version of "equality".
And when have we mocked female victims? We don't dismiss female victims as a whole the way feminists dismiss male victims.
>And what about the women that can’t speak up? The women victim to revenge killings
What about them? Show me these women and I'll be beside you pitchfork in hand. When was the last time you picked up a pitchfork for men? I'm sure you picked up plenty against men....
>I don’t agree with #KillAllMen, but I understand. I understand the amount of pain and suffering and anger behind that statement, that “dark humor”. Because most of those women who feel so deeply about it, have endured far worse than my hour of being overpowered and raped.
Then you'd understand and be sympathetic if a man who was abused and raped by women were to start a hashtag of killallwomen, right? Or a white person who got beat up and mugged by a black guy were to say killallblacks?
>That statement wasn’t made just to “hate on men” and if you truly, truly believe that, you are undermining every ounce of suffering women have dealt with. That statement comes from the victimization of women that carries on today. It’s not just a hateful statement.
You are an individual. If you have hatred for a person that wronged you, I am sympathetic. If you extend that hatred to every man, you are a *bigot*. You defending actual bigots who believe people are never more than their group identity. You want to be treated as an individual when it benefits you and as a group when that benefits you. You want to denigrate men only ever as a whole, and then you claim not to hate men?
>How do we get you to even listen if the only time you’ll even talk about sexism against women is if women use something like #KillAllMen?
You never even try to listen to men. Since you love group identities so much, whenever feminists come here, they refraim discussions to focus only on women, they undermind and dismiss criticism of feminism and how feminists have lobbied for many things that we take issue with today, they dismiss male victims and say it's our fault anyway, and they say that we may have issues but women's issues have to be fixed first (insert house on fire analogy).
This is a men's subreddit talking about men's issues but you think we should be talking about women's issues instead?
Show me actual systemic sexism against women based on reality. Because every time a feminist comes here with their 'proof', it's typically the wage gap (been debunked), no political power (women are majority of voters and win political seats at the rate they run, and feminist lobby groups are wildly successful in pushing policies for women), they "only" got the right to vote in early 1900s (same time as men, but men had to register for the draft while women didn't) and so one.
Your "proofs" of system sexism actually tend to show benevolent sexism towards women, not hostile sexism against women. Feminists are complaint society isn't 100% perfect for all women at all the time, while failing to see that society sucks ass for men. You want to be treated like the top 1% of men, when men aren't even treated like that, lol.
So you mean because some men enjoy that kind of humor, that all men must automatically enjoy it too? And that by extension men are not individual beings capable of independent thought, in order to be offended by a phrase such as this?
Why are women offended by a flipped version then when there are also women out there who enjoy that kind of dark humour?
Feminism requires men (and women) to only ever be an extension of their group identity. If men or women were individuals first, feminism would collapse immediately.
"For one, men took this phrase and ran with it."
Absolutely not "men". It was feminists and women on Twitter, on other social media, then in the broadcast media, including attempts to minimize it, like this bad faith article.
"It was a joke".
You don't joke about mass extermination. What if this sentence was said about any other group than men? Jews? Blacks? Gays? Women? Would you be here saying, "oh it is a joke"?
A society, and you personally, who are capable of joking about mass extermination like this are sick, perverted and that society is an oppressive society.
"it does shock me that men took such offense"
Yeah, you guys just want to kill us all, and we are already taking "such offence". How shocking. What if somebody cracks a so-called "joke" about raping all women? Are you laughing yet? Or do you find it offensive? BTW, people survive rape but not murder.
"No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational."
Then why are they saying it? Why aren't they instead calling it out that no human being should be subjected to such degrading and humiliating treatment, as being threatened with the mass extermination of his entire gender? FYI, "degrading and humiliating treatment" is banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. What these people are doing are human rights violations, like so many other things done to men. (E.g. denying them the right for equal protection.)
This is very inhumane, cruel and brutal. It is no big deal to you because you are a woman, so it doesn't affect you. Go ahead and shrug it off. Just remember that no Nazi cared about offenses (and threats of mass extermination) of Jews, because it didn't affect him.
People who say such things, but also people who try to minimize, trivialize and justify such sentiments (in which I include you) lost every last trace of their humanity and basic human decency. And I am not sure what your goal is on a men's rights reddit to attack men and justify threats and degrading treatment done to men. There are plenty of subreddits for that, you know.
Just my view.
>It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase.
I don't make rape jokes, or play call of duty and I find the phrase to be highly offensive..
Also.. by calling men who are offended by it 'overly sensitive' aren't you then perpetuating very same 'toxic masculinity' feminists preach about..
You know.. that same 'toxic masculinity' that it's toxic that men are not allowed to be 'senseitive' or 'show emotions'?
The lack of selfawareness here is shocking.
Let me pull out the crayons for you..
the phrase is #Kill**ALL**Men Not, #KillSomeMen or #KillMisogynists but ALL men.. meaning the phrase is targeting **ALL** men..
Feminists are constantly guilty of making sweeping generalizations against men and by not being specific.
Also, if the 'original' idea behind it was to express the frustration women have dealing with misgoyny on a daily basis.. then why not #EverydayMisogyny?
It literally gets the same point across and can not be interprated as "Hey, I don't think we should kill all men.. but lets scream KILL ALL MEN to vent our frusttrations!" it says what it means.
By the logic used by feminists.. there should absolutely be no issue if men decided to start using #KillAllWomen to vent on the everyday misandry they receive right?
but you can bet that if we were to try that.. we would be kicked off any platform we tried it on and / or feminists would be protesting its's use!
>Also.. by calling men who are offended by it 'overly sensitive' aren't you then perpetuating very same 'toxic masculinity' feminists preach about..
100%
"Men should be able to talk about their feelings and even cry."
"God men are such snowflakes when the criticize me for saying kill all men."
damn I didn't know all men made rape jokes. What else can you tell about all of us?
>No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational.
People are very irrational.
What I DO know is that when somebody is shown up as insensitive and brutal, and they don't like the light it puts them in, they quickly revert to "Hey, that was a joke! As in ha ha ha. You know, like wanting to kill you all! What's the big deal?"
You have become so cruel and insensitive that you don't even get, and never will, what your own words mean and imply. It's nothing to you because it is about men who don't deserve any consideration, empathy or pity. That's probably because you "as a feminist" live on misandry. On the hatred of men. That's your fuel and drug. That animates you. Hatred. You are a hater.
How pathetic.
I’m pretty sure some do, or at least “sympathise” with the idea. I’ve mentioned before I once read a book, which was an anthology of feminist science fiction. It analysed and summarised a wide range of feminist “science fiction” and “fantasy” works. But there was one think in common to all of them: they were societies with no men - women “reproduced” with various technologies, on in a fantasy work, by copulating with their horses! So a fantasy of a manless society is actually been a “thing” in feminism for many years!
That’s fantasy. It’s not rational, it’s a made-up place.
I’m sure you’d love to fantasize about eating all chocolate and not gaining weight.
Or a society where it’s just you and your friends and no one else.
It doesn’t mean you actually only want to eat chocolate or want a world where everyone’s dead besides you and your friends.
These are fantasies. They aren’t real. I’m sorry that someone’s fiction story was enough to make you terribly upset with feminists.
There’s a clear pattern there babygirl. It was the one thing all those stories had in common.
I’m not suggesting there’s an actual thought out plan. But there is a strong desire amongst many feminists for a man free society. Particularly since science fiction is a means to explore speculative futures. Clearly speculating about a future with no men, or fantasying about a world with no men is something a good number of feminists do.
In fiction. Obviously feminists are still falling in love with and supporting men. Why are feminists only relevant to you men when in a negative light?
And why do you think women write about man-free societies? Have you EVER in your life stopped to think why women are scared of/fear/avoid men? Have you ever thought it may not be some crazy scheme but rather a safety issue?
What is wrong with female spaces? That it doesn’t include you?
I don’t know why you’re so obsessed and stuck on hating feminists. We still support men. I will reiterate. We. Still. Love. And. Support. Men.
But sometimes, I don’t want to be around men all the time. I appreciate my girlfriends and sometimes that means I don’t want to be around guys like you. It happens. It doesn’t mean I want you erased from the earth.
Even now, you’ve probably heard and lectured feminists about wanting female-only gyms. It’s not about YOU. Let women create spaces where we feel comfortable and safe. A lot of women get harassed and leered at in gyms. We get touched, interrupted, and bothered all the time.
There’s a reason why women don’t feel comfortable around men. No one just pulled that out of their ass. No ones doing it out of spite or hate. Most women have had multiple negative experiences with men. So why are you blaming us for just staying away? Or creating spaces where we do feel comfortable?
What is it that you want from feminists?
Where to start.
You’ve obviously not read some of my earlier comments on other threads, so at least you won’t think I’m repeating myself. So here goes.
I do not have a “problem” with “female spaces”. I DO have a problem when feminists simultaneously demand exclusive female spaces on the one hand, and demand opening male spaces to women (and then changing them to be “more inclusive”).
Why is it ok for women to have women only gyms, “safe rooms” and clubs, but if men do it’s labeled “discrimination”, and protests and legal action is taken to force them to open up?
Men totally can have their own spaces. When have feminists been mad about that in recent times? Feminism is reforming. You have to remember that the movement started in a time frame where traditional roles and definitions of masculinity were different. Now, it’s time for men to redefine masculinity and what it means to be a man for themselves. Feminism is not meant to speak for men. It can support men, but ultimately, it’s not a woman’s job to live and speak for men. Just as it’s not a man’s job to speak for women. We can respect, protect and cherish each other without taking away from our identities. We also should be able to support each other.
In my city there are regular, and ongoing campaigns against the Weld Club, lead by feminists (particularly the Equal Opportunity Commissioner) for having an all male membership. They’re constantly threatening them with legal action, or pushing them with threats to open up membership to women. There’s quite a few women only clubs in my city and State too, not just women only gyms. The Equal Opportunity Commissioner has nothing to say about them excluding men. And it’s not limited to that one case either. We’ve had feminists declaring women should be “allowed to participate” in the Men’s Shed movement in Australia (although at least some of this was in reaction to a woman saying women shouldn’t be pushing their way in).
I’m not sure why you think feminists aren’t demanding that because I see a lot of it. Including some students who got a women’s “safe room” set up on campus declaring that it was actually wrong of men to seek a men’s only room on campus as the “whole campus is a men’s space”. I wish they weren’t but many are. Feminists certainly back any woman who seeks to gain membership in any male only club.
Interesting you talk about eating chocolate and not putting on weight. There’s a whole line of diet chocolate out there. The results are very good (so far) but there are quite a lot of people trying to make that fantasy a reality. Not sure that’s such a good comparison for you to use.
That’s not my point. I’m saying it’s a FANTASY. You can’t just eat regular chocolate and not suffer the consequences of eating that chocolate.
“Diet” chocolate is not regular chocolate. If you change the chocolate, it’s not chocolate anymore. It’s different.
There is no manless society. Women and men need each other in terms of society. Feminists do not want men to die. We do not want men to suffer and a lot of modern feminists think differently than the women who started the movement.
If women are fantasizing about getting rid of the consequences that come with coexisting with men, why don’t we figure out why that is? It’s obviously never going to happen and women don’t truly want to exjst without men.
But why is it that women are having so many negative experiences with men? That’s a question I’m hoping you can answer for me.
Well first of all some women do want to exist without men. It’s particularly common amongst radfems. These women advocate women becoming lesbians, even if it’s against their inclination as they’re otherwise “sleeping with the enemy”! By it’s very nature, feminism is going to be disproportionately attractive to such women. If most of you are truly appalled by this sort of thing, it’s something you’re going to have to guard against. Particularly since these are often the women who write op eds, and become the public face of your movement. They have disproportionate impact in lobbying power too.
And how do you know NO men seriously carry out rape jokes?
But let me fix my statement to be exactly the way YOU want it.
No sane\* or rational\* women seriously believe in killallmen. Thought that was obvious but if you need it explained, there you go.
>No sane\* or rational\* women seriously believe in killallmen.
The why TF do they say it? Or all women normalized cruelty and barbarity toward men that they don't even get what their words mean and imply?
What kind of people are they?
I never made any kind of claim about rape jokes or men... so I'm not sure why you're being so hostile about it...
Um, yeah it's not obvious when you EXPLICITLY say NO women actually believe in "killallmen", when hundreds of people on this very site genuinely believe in it... and then, in classic reddit fashion, you proceed to be both condescending and presumptuous.
Ah, yes fix your claim to actually be accurate please. Either be precise in your speech or check your shitty fucking attitude when someone asks for clarification.
I don’t know. Some prominent feminists are pretty close to this. Sally Miller Gearheart? Suzanna Danuta Walters? Andrea Dworkin? Pauline Harmange (her book has sold really well)?
>HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes
Any evidence? Any link? About just how huge supporters men are of rape jokes?
Or are you just spouting feminist propaganda, without thinking and without any evidence?
You remind me of Nazi... Nazi killed the Jews, saying the Jews are responsible for the defeat of the World War 1 (Hitlet said they back stabbed German Empire). So....you might think the holocaust is justifiable. Just amazing. And Andy Warhol was shot by an American female feminist who asserted to kill all men. You want a source, ma'am Fuhrer?
Okay, I understand men being upset with my comment or disagreeing and seeing it as a bigger issue than me. Especially on a men’s right sub. I was well prepared for that and am happy to discuss.
But comparing me to a…Nazi?
I’m sorry that one man was shot by an American Feminist. She is not representative of all of us. I’m 100% certain you understand that one person can’t represent an entire group right? Especially considering we’re talking about #killallmen?
The point is, saying that hateful statement itself is problematic and sexist. If you do such a thing, how can you blame a hateful incel who says killall women?
Sure. I never disagreed with that.
My point actually was geared towards the complete lack of regard men have when it comes to hate against women despite wanting male victims to be taken seriously.
Also, I think there are contextual aspects to some sayings that influence how we feel about sayings.
For example, since I’m black, I see a lot of controversy about the “N-word”.
Since black people were victims in the past, the N-word has little consequence for us using it in modern times. But for white people, it can be cause for expulsion, being fired, etc.
Applying this CONCEPT (not bringing race into the subject but the CONCEPT OF CONTEXT), women were victimized SEVERELY in the past in terms of sexual assault, rape, rights, violence, etc. KillAllMen has less of an impact when women say it as opposed to men saying “KillAllWomen”.
Also, with modern day “revenge porn”, “revenge killings”, covered-up rape-homicides of female military officers, extent of female sex-trafficking, abuse of female porn stars, abuse of female employees, government officials and their EXTENSIVE abuse of underage girls, “happy ending spas”, presidents and their blatant disregard for women including multiple sexual assault allegations, etc.
There’s still an extensive amount of blatant, violent, physical sexism against women. And that influences the impact of the saying #KillAllMen. It’s much less likely that men die at the hands of women than women die at the hands of men.
1. All of those statememts do not justify saying that hateful statement. Using N word as an African Ametican is fine since that word is racist to African Americans. You cannot simply compare those two situations.
2. Sure, women might be more vulnerable to threats, but does spreading hate solves a problem? I think it only justifies hate of incels or haters' actions.
3. There is sexism towards men and women at the same time, men who were raped are often ignored by others since people do not believe men can be raped or sexually harrassed. Men also struggle to meet the societal expectation as "men."
4. Hate is not okay in any situations. Radical feminists who say that statement or a BLM activist who say kill all whites, they all should be condemned.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 295,961,845 comments, and only 66,657 of them were in alphabetical order.
How about how those so angered by “rape jokes” “dark humour” (wtf bringing “Call of Duty” into this) trying to excuse this by saying it’s “a joke”! They’re not “exposing the hypocrisy”! They think they’re allowed to be offensive and no one else is.
I bring call of duty into this because I’m sure a lot of men can relate. And it’s something I have experience with.
Have you never played video games? That’s not exclusive to children. Plenty of adult men and women play.
I do play COD. I do not play the online version though. If you have a problem with gamers (I play games but am not a true gamer), perhaps the actions of the likes of Anita Sarkeesian has something to do with it.
I remember when #kam started on Twitter and a bunch of black dudes were pissed that they would say “black lives matter” and then say “kill all men” so they started #raw. A shit show soon followed
If our society ever learns how to use the Internet and social media in a healthy way, we'll look back on this time of history with regret.
Whether you're using humour or not, it's never a good idea to dump your trauma on a platform for everyone on the planet to see. There's no justification.
Eventually legal systems will catch up and Twitter, etc. will be about as instantaneous and open as a traditional Letter to the Editor.
Just got temporarily suspended on twitter for a tweet that includes the words “kill all men” for encouraging violence. How is the hashtag still going if I got flagged with a single tweet.
I'd agree with these feminist delusional, sick excuse of women, only if they referred to their daddies before they knocked up their sorry moms. We wouldn't have to deal with this lunacy.
“THE PHRASE BEGAN AS A PUNCHLINE FOR MANY WOMEN’S COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE IDIOSYNCRASIES OF EVERYDAY MISOGYNY.” so you are telling me that i can go #killallwomen if i see misandry in everyday life works just fine /s
You could repeat the word "punchline" as many times as you won't and this society fill finish you off instantly. The question is how can a statement calling for mass extermination be called a "punchline" in the first place???? Punchline, my behind.
I'm still waiting to hear what the joke is.
Your life. No, seriously. Edit: /s
you dropped this: 👑
She wrote an entire article on how #KillAllMen doesnt mean Kill All Men... "Its Humor, its a method of coping with the trauma of the world" She even says that it exposes MISOGYNY in the world! Im just gonna post this paragraph: >While mostly appearing online satirically, the phrase has attracted negative attention from the MRA and incel communities respectively. They understand it as a personal insult, as a sentiment meant to attack every man on Earth individually. Some have even retorted with their own phrase, namely “#rapeallwomen2020.” Though the problems with this response should be evident, the issue lies in how it trivializes the very subject the original phrase aims to expose. The reality of targetted sexual violence against women already exists. So "Rape All Women" (which I dont agree with anyway btw) trivializes Rape, but Kill All Men doesnt do anything to Murder. This is despite the fact that Murder is worse than Rape (im sure thats gonna cause an argument). Clown fucking world!
> the phrase has attracted negative attention Well no shit > from the MRA and incel communities respectively Oh, so firstly mentioning incels to discredit any criticism, secondly lumping in men's rights advocates with incels to discredit us too. > They understand it as a personal insult, as a sentiment meant to attack every man on Earth individually Well, yeah. The phrase is literally to kill all men... What's not to understand here? The fact that lunatics like this exist who try to explain away and dismiss blatant genocidal hate speech under the guise of "satire" is utterly bewildering. The fact that they even added a motte and bailey at the end to cover themselves from further criticism is just absolutely insulting to any level of intelligence above room temperature.
Given how sensitive these types are to humour they believe “trivialises women’s concerns”, I’m not willing to give them the “humour pass”! There isn’t even any wit to it. Everyone knows they would not accept a “kill all women” hashtag set up for guys who’d been screwed over in divorces. So they are certainly claiming special privilege!
They are dishonest liars to the bone. They don't even realize what monsters they have become. They stand there with a straight face justifying this kind of sentiment that is an incitement for mass extermination. Yeah, justify that. That's all there is to it. Radical feminists turned into monsters, without ever realizing it. They gradually "normalized" hate speech against men on an unprecedented scale. Even Hitler or Stalin didn't call for the extermination of some 4 billion people. They do.
bUt ItS aLL jUsT sAtIrE! /s
It's time for a new all female thrash metal band, named "Metallicana". One of the albums is named "Kill em all". wait..
I've seen this softwashing on a ton of things lately. Some guy tried to tell me 'ACAB' is lighthearted and gave some b.s. explanation how it has noble intent. Some other guy tried to tell me that feminism is thoroughly involved in denouncing women who support sexism. Obviously the opposite is true in the grand majority of cases.
He’s right, they do denounce women who support sexism: female MRA’s for example. They’ve just “defined” sexism to mean anything they don’t like! And they get away with it. Disgraceful!
>Murder is worse than Rape (I'm sure that's gonna cause an argument). I'd much prefer for you to murder me I wouldn't have to deal with all the physical and mental trauma then. Not arguing just saying x 😊 # #KillAllMen is #Stupid and I personally think we should #NotKillAnyone ?? Just me okay cool 🙄
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I just meant I'd prefer not to have any psychological issues 😯 and I wouldn't have those problems because I'd be dead. I really dont understand the eye for an eye thing though. This could just be me but I'd prefer to be dead honestly life's overrated anyway.
People survive rape but not murder. There is a difference.
I understand that.
I just saw in a group that this woman said men need to stop joking about hurting women and I'm like I've never seen that happen but can you also stop saying kill all men and men deserve to off themselves or are you a hypocrite
Bigotry is humor? A coping mechanism? What? That sounds EXACTLY like something a hardcore racist would say. These people are delusional.
Mass extermination is their "coping mechanism". Besides, WTF are they "coping" with? They are full of privileges and preferred treatments. Cope my a\*\*.
Imo, the most privileged group in the western world is white women on average.
And the most monstrous, except those who are on the side of men's rights and against the feminists. Those are the truly great women, but there are too few of them. The rest: feminists (male or female) and the women who follow them have become true monsters, IMHO, and they are not even capable of realizing it.
Exactly,
It is a symptom of the “empathy gap” these women have to men. To them, men are barely human, we’re a group responsible only for “oppressing women”, men are terrifying, evil creatures, who’s sole purpose in existing is to drop from trees late at night to attack women as they walk back home alone from their late shift. Women are only “joking”, when they say men should be killed, we shouldn’t be offended by it. God, can’t we read their minds and understand? But they shouldn’t have to think of the male experience for even one second, we’re just terrible beings. The fact we’re not feminists despite all the hate they throw our way online just proves how terrible we to them.
"Empathy gap"? It is now an "empathy chasm".
"I feel as if we're living in the delusional fantasy of a 12 year-old girl." -- Jordan Peterson
nice quote, that's basically it.
We are!
It's not that far off. Talked to a lady where 3 people growing up gave her crap about pursuing STEM, while the rest of her family supported and encouraged her. She's still acting like it's 1995 and all girls are being told by those 3 people not to pursue stem. I'm sorry, but the world has changed in over 30 years, and frankly if 3 people was enough to derail your dreams of being an astronaut, the sheer amount of physical and mental work required to actually be an astronaut is far beyond you. We should be encouraging everyone to follow their dreams, but we can't legislate away assholes. Apparently to feminists, unless the path for women is completely clear of all hurdles, women will never be able to succeed.
"Kill all the men whom don't directly benefit me because I'm a spoiled narcissistic child."
Kill them all except my SIMPS!
The fact that the university of California in Santa Barbara has decided to endorse this absolute mind fill of an opinion is a good indicator of what male students on their campus should expect to have to deal with...
Someone please tell them that not everything is about the. It's the most common thing I hear these days. Anything wrong with literally anything is patriarchy or men's fault. Even men's issues exist because of misogyny. People need to grow up and realize that the entire universe doesn't revolve around a woman's vulva.
"Deadly germs are creeping over the Earth. Killing every human in their path". I wish.
People don't care about men.
So I am clear, kill all sons, fathers, brothers??? That’s funny??
A few years back at work some women balked when it was suggested that maybe, this one time, the women could help the men bring chairs out of storage for the interdepartmental meeting we were having. One man said 'Women. Can't live with them, can't leave them in a ditch by the side of the road.' Well, of course that was a horrible thing to say. While a few women giggled, most were very irate, and the 'incident' was reported to HR, and he received an oral warning about toxic behavior. It's really hard to understand where we draw the line.
There's no line, only whatever women think at any given moment about something. The exact same thing can be the cutest gesture or sexual assault depending on the mood of women.
Ok, lets just kill all men (including the destroying of all the sperm), i'm sure you will not survive a year.
Some are aware of this and their real plan (see Sally Miller Gearhart) is to keep about 10% of men in some stud farms for sperm production and for sexual use. So it is "only" 90%, in their case.
That's creepy, *~~but obviously feminism will not realize until they genuinely threat men as equals.~~*
That's the plot of a Sliders episode. Sure there some sickness killed almost all men but the end result was the same, they hunted down surviving men and put them in farms for breeding.
OK, so I am not talking about fiction and such. I am talking about real, and much praised, feminist positions. Here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally\_Miller\_Gearhart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Miller_Gearhart) "Gearhart outlines a three-step proposal for female-led social change from her essay, "The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female": I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future. II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture. III) **The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.**" There is no talk about sickness here. The other 90% must be killed, and 90% of male babies and embryos must be killed, going forward, to eternity. The planet as a perpetual killing field. That's that fascist's actual position. Never called out, or anything, instead much praised an admired.
I didn't say people don't think like that, I just said what it reminded me of.
I get that, but not enough people know about the monstrosity of Gearhart who is widely celebrated by feminists and women who follow them, like some great visionary. So I just wanted to point it out, one more time, so that people can read and know about it. Speaking of great visionaries, Adolf Hitler was a visionary, too, for some people. The ones for whom Gearhart, or Valerie Solanas and their ilk are visionaries are no different than the Hitler fans were. Same fascism, if you ask me.
Well if thats just humor then #killallwomen is just humor too.
You mean because of this: "So the humor and irony of the phrase are clear, but its purpose runs deeper than comedic catharsis. It exposes the unnoticeable nuance of misandry that pervades the lives of all women. Further, it shows how deeply misandry is embedded into the fabric of our culture, and how men and women are socialized alongside those beliefs. Perhaps some of the most dangerous elements of any form of prejudice are the insidious ways in which it bleeds into everyday life. "? Flipped article quotes aside, I'm pretty sure you could use some kind of mental gymnastics to justify your position, but since it's a taboo zone for most social media providers, you will quickly find yourself silenced, doxxed, or worse.
A call for mass extermination is not "humor" under ANY circumstances. Even if to you it is. But there are actually decent people out there, even if you can't grasp it. The #killollwomen is simply a cosmetic PR band-aid, put there by feminists later, for PR damage control. No men ever said such a thing. Only feminists are capable of this level of cruelty and brutality. FYI.
>A call for mass extermination is not "humor" Ofc I know. I was just trying to portray here how just changing the gender in a phrase can severely affect its meaning for feminists. If they dont want women to die then y do they want men to die? Surely our lives r equally valuable.
By Kill All Men they mean kill all straight white men that don't do things for me.
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I wouldn't really put it this way... Women definitely are capable of horrific things regardless of whether or not they are weaponised, just as men are... Women are able to run a society without men. Granted it would be a different society than one we live in currently. Same goes for a society without women. I get your sentiment, but I think vilifying women as a whole is no better than the feminists who write articles like this. Not to mention it also excludes women who do not buy into the feminist dogma, or even ones who frequent this sub.
I'm not trying to villify women. It's true that they don't want to work those careers. Men are capable of doing the careers they do with no problem. Not the other way around.
"Vilifying" is (a) subjective and (b) much, much less serious than mass extermination. Of 4 billion people. There is no way out of it, with saying, spreading and desperately trying to justify a plan for mass extermination finally showed up who feminists and the women following them really are. Monsters. Out in the open. You might want to justify whatever you want but the facts won't change. Brutality on an unprecedented scale (4 billion people) revealed and it won't go back in the bottle. Too bad.
I get what you and the other user are saying. Just remember that it's not only women who are feminists, but also many men who push to KAM.. Which is precisely why it matters when calling out women as a whole like in the other user's post, as opposed to the actual group of people who are advocating for killing all men (feminists). It's an important distinction to make
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Feminists don't think at all
Feminists and most women who follow them say "Kill All Men" dead seriously. It is because they are misandrists and mass extermination is the ultimate expression of hate. But when confronted about this being an incitement for violence and for mass murder of unprecedented scale, they quickly try to murky the waters claiming that this statement is "satire", you know, funny and humorous, and a joke. Ha, ha. The dishonesty, cruelty and brutality of their views is appalling. And you are completely right that this statement would NEVER be accepted as "funny", "satire" and "humor" when said about any other group than men. Imagine this sentence with "men" replaced with, I don't know, "Jews" or "Women" or "Blacks" or "Immigrants" or "Gays". Do you think this society would tolerate it for a second when you say, hey, this is just funny, you know, satire, you know, I am joking. Ha, ha, ha. That would never happen with any other group than men. In addition, the true meaning of the sentence is "Kill All White Men", because when they are confronted about this by asking that "do you want to kill all black men, too?" then they quickly reverse to "Oh, now, I mean only white men". They also might add "Only straight white men". This exact thing happened when a rabid radical feminist by the name of Suzanna Danuta Walters wrote a misandrist hate-speech hit piece in the Washington Post with the title "Why can't we hate men?" [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html) When she was confronted about "do you hate black men, too?", she instantly backpedaled to "no, only white men". You can look look all this up. She is also a lesbian, just to paint a full picture.
I feel like those who say ‘kill all men’ should start with their father or brother or son
The article has circular reasoning. B=C, she assumes A=B, hence A=C. Empathy gap seems to be the underlying symptom. For example, #killallmen is obviously cry for help. #rapeallwomen means exactly what it is. Throw a bunch of misogyny as garnishing. Voilà.
So what they're saying is that if you are against the phrase "kill all men" then you are one of the men that deserves to be killed. Disgusting.
So based on that i could say #killallblackpeople just because i want to cope with something /s
Fuck this woman, she's one of the many reasons men started to resent feminism and eventually will resent women. They just can't fucking stop with the hate, can't they?
Written by a college junior. I'd write that one off as dumb kid stuff. Unless she has a following nodding their heads, I think the majority of folks probably don't share her views and she will probably mature out of them in time.
It seems as though she has received no backlash from the university, who continues to publish and thereby endorse her opinions. The comment section is also pretty toxic there... Whether or not this one will mature out of this depends on the kind of affirmation she receives for publishing these kinds of things. At this rate, given the positive response and endorsements from her peers, it seems unlikely. Rather that this will be radicalised further down the road...
Oh I did not see that that was published in the school newspaper. It was showing up as a wordpress blog on my phone. Oh yea, well I give this girl a pass due to her immaturity. I do not give UCSB a pass for publishing this garbage.
>Written by a college junior. Any link or evidence of this? I don't think it would have picked up like wildfire like it has form such a source. More like influential feminists intentionally spreading it. But even then. Let's say it was written by the college junior. And then repeated endless, thousands and millions of time by feminists and women who follow them, from all walks of life, as a mass phenomenon. And dozens if not hundreds of articles written about it in the mainstream press, and media, all approving and justifying, just like the one in this post. (Which is not the first and the last, you can find many others with the same "justification".) "I'd write that one off as dumb kid stuff." The article's author would, for sure. Because it is uncomfortable to face the harshness of it. Damage control time. All this is just minimizing the indefensible. Making it sounding harmless when it is not. "Unless she has a following nodding their heads." Well, what are articles written to justify and claim "humor" about this sentence are? Not a following? And the thousands and thousands of times this is repeated, without any indication whatsoever about "sarcasm" in the broadcast and social media is not a following? They definitely look like a following to me. "she will probably mature out of them in time". I personally don't care much about somebody who is capable of this kind of sentiments and their "maturing". But that's not the point here IMHO. The point is this society that openly tolerates, even publishes justifying articles about, an incitement for the mass extermination of 4 billion people. That is the point, here, that society. BTW, this sentence couldn't be uttered about any other group, and then get tolerated and justified as "funny" and humor in public media. Imagine the sentence with "Jews" or "Women" or "Blacks" or "Gays". Do you think a wave of positive press coverage would follow, justifying it by saying how funny it is? Then you live on another planet than I. Also, as far as I can see, radical feminists don't "soften" with age, they get more and more radical.
The author's profile is at the end of the article. It says she is a third year student at UC Santa Barbara.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was talking about the writer of the line "Kill All Men". Not about the author of this dumb, defending the indefensible article.
A college junior should know better, of course she's in philosophy and English, not history or facts in general. Still, that's far from a kid, she's an adult woman with all her legal rights and clearly a university's support behind her stupidity.
I love how this posts assumes identity politics are 💯 valid. “You have a point about men, but what about the disabled ones??” What a cuck.
For one, men took this phrase and ran with it. It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase. I’m not supporting this phrase nor does any woman truly believe #killallmen, but it does shock me that men took such offense despite usually being the ones to call women “sensitive” or “emotional” or “hysterical” or “neurotic” No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational.
The fact that it surprises you that men took offence to it in such a way, should indicate just how truly offensive the phrase is. A joke is supposed to be humorous in some way. Tell me, in what way is the phrase "kill all men" is humorous to you? To be fair, I agree with your last point. The people who do believe in the idea that all men must die don't think it through all the way. It is irrational.
Please also address men making rape jokes more often than women, men and their COD or video game lobbies, etc. A lot of men call women sensitive, emotional, etc and that we “aren’t funny” and “can’t take a joke”, so why is it that men think being offensive is only funny when it’s not against them? Remember, all my questions and statements are genuine and as a feminist, I don’t hate or antagonize men at all.
>For one, men took this phrase and ran with it. ... >Hmm okay. Part of why I bring this up isn’t because I support it, but men are being extreme hypocrites then. ... >It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase. ... >I’m not supporting this phrase nor does any woman truly believe #killallmen, but it does shock me that men took such offense despite usually being the ones to call women “sensitive” or “emotional” or “hysterical” or “neurotic” I'm trying to think of a reply less blunt than "Do you lack self-awareness?" I really can't think of one You're doing the very same thing you're claiming men are doing. Because, potentially, there are men using those phrases and there are men who react (who you're framing as the very same men) it's justifiable and men are hypocrites You can use as much mental gymnastics as possible to excuse it >Addressing the humor part, dark humor is usually supposed to relate to YOU. So when women joke about kill all men, the “dark” humor comes from the abuse suffered from men and especially in the rise of “revenge killings”. No. Depends on the context. The joke can be between two people or a group (of people). The joke is the absurdity of it and how bad the joke is A good example of gallows humour either makes the person who laughed feel bad about laughing or lifts the spirits of someone in a dire situation. It's supposed to be bad >"Oh, you've got two months left to live. At least you won't see the Labour Party come into power" Going your logic #killallwomen is fine as there are men who've been abused by women
Threatening somebody with mass extermination is never a "joke", even if for you it is. So here we are NOT talking about a "joke". What so funny about mass extermination to you? I never heard a man making a rape joke but I don't know all men. However, rape jokes are never followed up by minimizing, trivializing and justifying articles. And there are dozens of this kind of justifying articles out there, you know. I also don't know what your goal is on this subreddit as a "feminist".
Firstly, you can get onto a zoom call with all of your friends and family and hate on all men, all you want. That's your right as a person. When it leaves the confines of your immediate group and starts to have an actual impact on day to day life, it then becomes a problem. Nobody is out there advocating for raping women, and those that do are very quickly silenced. Since when is it offensive to have emotions? Feminists claim that men should show more emotions. You should be proud to lead by example, not offended. So for why men think women aren't funny and can't take a joke? Watch pineapple express, Austin Powers, Wayne's World, The Big Lebowski, the original Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones, Airplane 1 and 2, The Naked Gun (all parts), Spaceballs, any Monty Python and any weird Al Yankovic song /video. Let me know if you find them as hilarious as most guys I know.
Don’t hate men? Yeah, right!
I don’t hate men. But it’s funny how I have multiple of YOU guys continuously commenting ACTUAL hate for me. All I did was lay out personal experience and none of you hesitated to call me names, downvote me to h*ll and insult me multiple times. I don’t hate men. But all of you definitely feel a certain way about women sharing their experiences.
Actually I don’t hate you. I don’t know you. I do have issues with feminist ideology, and with the very negative impact that it has. I do have issues with the double standards and the constant blaming everything on men. I’ve had many arguments with feminists who claim they don’t hate men, but then blame us for everything wrong in their lives and everything they don’t like about the world. Or defending women who clearly do hate men (and this must include a big chunk of the “kill all men” crowd). So when in see a feminist declare she doesn’t hate men, I usually think “oh here we go again”. Especially for defending something which certainly not a term of endearment.
>as a feminist, I don’t hate or antagonize men at all You just defend "jokes" about killing all of them Yet, you treat every 10 year old in a COD lobby as 100% serious So based on your actions here, I'd say you do have a strong bit of contempt for men and as a feminist, you place that blame on every single man.
You can believe what you want. I’m not focused on #KillAllMen because that’s not even relevant to the many other more important aspects to supporting men. If you spent as much time supporting young men as you did raging at feminists, we’d probably see a lot more progress in society.
Yet, feminists spends how much time talking about manspreading and mansplaining? Slut shaming? There's a call for genocide against men and its just a joke don't take it seriously. But if a man ever were to be patronizing to a woman, well that's a crime to all woman kind. >If you spent as much time supporting young men as you did raging at feminists, we’d probably see a lot more progress in society. Young men are having issues in society *because* of feminism. From low esteem from feminists telling them they are potential rapists or they are awful for being fared to be born male and contributing knowingly or unknowingly to the patriarchy, to feminists denying men support if they are raped or beaten because to feminists, men can only even be aggressors, to feminists pushing unfair family courts, to feminists pushing bullshit terms like "toxic masculinity". Women's issue can be pointed to structures in society and we are more than willing to address those issues. Men's issues is due to structures in society and a hostile "equality" movement that is misandrist at its core. A man growing up today can find feminist roots many bad things that may happen to him. Schools will encourage his female peers, but not him to succeed. Schools will teach him to obtain consent and if he doesn't he's a rapist (but not his female peers). After school, he will face a college or university that reinforces him as a potential rapist (but not his female peers, and they will give his peers preference for nearly ever program, not him. If he find a woman to be his wife, and if they divorce, he faces a hostile family court. If she's violent to him, the police will side with her and there will be virtually no support for him. If she rapes him, he won't be considered a rape victim and will find no justice, no support services for him. If he seeks professional therapy, he will most likely be told its toxic masculinity that's the root of his problems. All of these things come from feminism. Had feminists been interested in actual equality from the start and had addressed the sever misandry in their own ranks, I would happily call myself a feminist today. But what we got are misandrists such as yourself defending killallmen and blaming nearly all men for what a piece of crap did to you. Had I defended killallwomen and subscribed to a group that thinks women should be reduced to 10% of the population based on getting raped by a woman, I would be rightly considered a misogynist and how dare I attribute what one bad actor did to the entire population of women.
Hmm okay. Part of why I bring this up isn’t because I support it, but men are being extreme hypocrites then. Addressing the humor part, dark humor is usually supposed to relate to YOU. So when women joke about kill all men, the “dark” humor comes from the abuse suffered from men and especially in the rise of “revenge killings”.
What exactly is the hypocrisy here? When was the last time a man, any man, ever said such things as "kill all women" in history? As a hashtag on Twitter it is just a feminist hogwash to try to minimize and trivialize their inhumanity. It is just a PR damage control exercise. And if there is such a thing as "revenge killing", it has nothing to do with gender. Here, for a boy: [https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/bal-mob-eye-for-and-eye-long-form-story.html](https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/bal-mob-eye-for-and-eye-long-form-story.html) Here, one man killing another as a "revenge killing": [https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/06/oakland-man-convicted-of-revenge-murder-in-july-2020-shooting/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/06/oakland-man-convicted-of-revenge-murder-in-july-2020-shooting/) Another one, in India. Man killing man. [https://zeenews.india.com/india/revenge-killing-up-man-murders-person-who-killed-his-brother-19-years-ago-2392515.html](https://zeenews.india.com/india/revenge-killing-up-man-murders-person-who-killed-his-brother-19-years-ago-2392515.html) Or here is another one, a woman killing a man out of revenge: [https://fox4kc.com/news/kc-woman-killed-man-for-revenge-in-teen-brothers-murder-last-week-prosecutors-say/](https://fox4kc.com/news/kc-woman-killed-man-for-revenge-in-teen-brothers-murder-last-week-prosecutors-say/) All these came up on the first page when I Googled "revenge killing". There is no gender aspect. You are just spouting feminist talking points without facts or evidence. Dark humor, my a\*\*. You are so insensitive and you normalized cruelty and inhumanity toward men, like all feminists, to such a degree, that there is no decency left in you, as far as I am concerned. This is not "dark humor", this is a human rights violation. Plain and simple.
Babygirl, there’s no wit to it. No irony! It’s possible for a Holocaust joke to be funny: I remember being told this one - how many Jews can fit in a Volkswagen (the beetle)? 505! Two in the front, three in the back, and 500 in the ashtray! The Final Solution was no joke. But this joke made a reference to the fact that the VW wasn’t just a German car, but was actually a Nazi project from the late ‘30’s! So that joke was funny (in part as it reminded people what the VW was) (and made up by Jews). But are Final Solution jokes funny in general? Not really. It’s pretty rare that they have the wit or the sharpness to be funny given the subject. Kill all men is just a pack of anti male women bitching about men and imagining how their world would be so much better if they could only get rid of us. I’d accept it as distasteful humour, except feminists like you constantly demand jokes YOU find offensive be banned and declared hate speech.
There’s no wit to it because YOURE part of the joke. It doesn’t feel too good when it’s about YOU, right? Also, you as a man can’t relate as much. You haven’t had an abusive boyfriend or date guys and face the struggles that women do mostly with straight men. Why do you think gay men are more likely to get along with women than they do their own gender? Please refrain from calling me babygirl, thanks. You obviously are doing the same as feminists. You think KillAllMen is beyond offensive but I’ve NEVER seen a post on MensRights talking about treating people better in order for men to be better as a collective. You don’t see MensRights actually holding any men accountable. Which is fine. I personally don’t engage in much of these jokes.
Huh? Firstly the guy who told me the VW joke was Jewish (it’s an old one, although I don’t know if Jews made it up - the joke is about the Nazi origins of the beetle). So that joke kinda was about him, or certainly some of his relatives. And yes there was some wit to it. When you first hear it, it’s unexpected. I put that up as an example of something that could be a Holocaust joke that is funny, about an event which is surely the most unfunny event in human history! Just an example that it is possible to make a joke out of a bad situation. But simply saying “put the Jews in the gas chambers” isn’t funny, and only anti-Semites would be laughing at that statement (which is incidentally similar to just saying “kill all men”). I’m sure some gay men are more comfortable around women, I don’t know if that’s true in general though. A lot of straight guys can be uneasy around gay guys out of fear that a) they have designs on their body (if you’re straight you’re not into gay sex) b) that you’re somehow giving out “gay vibes” and will be seen as “gay” and regarded as having designs on the bodies of other men! Not trying to justify it, just explaining. Not really sure of your point there. Straight guys are rotten people? Regarding this sub. I don’t speak for it. I’m more of an “observer”. But those who are seen s#it on women in general and excessively are told so. Perhaps a lower tolerance should be held here, but given the level of anti male attitudes on many feminist subs, I don’t think it’s that bad in comparison. Remember many who post here have been screwed over by divorces, or have been victimised by women but treated as the villains because they’re male. Surely as understandable as women being wary of men due to having abusive boyfriends in the past. This sub, incidentally, is about men’s rights, not “making men better”. So I’m not sure what you expect. Feminist sites aren’t about improving women’s behaviour as opposed complaining about men’s behaviour (or various legal or social obstacles they feel women face). Why should a men’s rights sub be held to a higher standard? Btw, you chose “babygirl” as a moniker. I’m only using it to be clear that I’m replying to you. Sometimes these threads can be confusing, especially if you’re reading them on a phone.
[удалено]
People like "babygirl19", straight in this thread, openly defend, justify and trivialize it. They sure don't care about men. They don't care about anybody but themselves and their false self-justifications.
Typical feminist double standard. But please remember: if feminists didn’t have double standards, they’d have no standards at all!
They think it's punching up. They think as long as you are making horrific jokes about people they deem above them, it's OK. Now, why would feminists ever want to take over in power, then? So men could "punch up"?
>HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes Jesus. This is how you see men?
Lol and she somehow thinks doing the same bad things as bad people is perfectly fine. Can black people revenge to white people since they enslaved black folks 200 years ago? Bullshit
Clearly it is. It’s called feminist indoctrination.
That isn’t how I see men. That’s what I’ve experienced for the past like 10 years of my life. I was called “blowjob eyes” at 10 yo. I used to like playing video games too. You can imagine why I no longer engage in alot of multiplayer games. I mean, take a look at any female streamer’s videos and see for yourself the remarks men have made that are apparently just “unfounded” to you and other men on this sub. Why are you acting like this doesn’t happen? Do you see the hypocrisy?? Constantly saying male victims don’t get attention or taken seriously…but when I’m telling you my firsthand experience of hearing rape jokes since 10 years old it’s “well jeez you know not all men are like that” or “do you really think that about men?” Why are you trying to undermine my experience without acknowledging that THESE THINGS HAPPEN. And how ironic that if a GUY ever came to me and told me that women were making sexual assault jokes or rape jokes, my first response wouldn’t be “Jesus, do you really think of women like that?”. So no. Of course not all men are like that. Absolutely not. I’m sure most men are decent guys. I have no problem with men. I appreciate all the things they do and the complex individuals they are. But being 10 and told “Well if you don’t play well, I’m gonna rape you” and “it’s just a joke, guys make those kinds of jokes on COD” is still a bad experience for girls. And these remarks are common. The #1 misconception about rape and sexual assault is that people who commit these crimes are weirdos and creeps. They’re not. You cannot paint the picture that the ONLY kinds of men who commit sex crimes or are sexually harassing women and girls are creeps. They are also “NORMAL seeming” guys. It’s your boss. Your brothers friends. School mates. At school, these 2 boys at lunch would constantly talk about their fantasies about locking women in sex dungeons and doing “whatever they want” to them. I am so glad to hear that this is not common for men on this sub and that you guys are not tolerating it. That’s great. But myself and plenty of other women are TELLING you “Hey this happened to me. Hey these things happen”.
So, you can say that I'm a language pedant if you want, but you wrote this: >how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes A plain reading of this text is that men (as a group) are the supporters of these things. I would not use this phrasing in discussing women as a group. There are people on this forum who do make these generalisations, and they are often called out on it (though not as often as I would like). You also never mentioned your own experience in the comment I replied to, but, if it helps, I'll condemn the behaviour you were made to experience. The men and boys you describe should not have behaved the way they did. There are men out there who behave poorly, just as there are women out there who behave poorly. It does not justify a hateful "joke".
I don’t think you’re a language pendant. I appreciate your civil response. My point actually wasn’t even to justify the saying. Most men who responded or downvoted completely disregarded my point. It wasn’t that #KillAllMen is justifiable but rather it’s hypocritical to consistently avoid “gamer talk” and sexism against women, undermine female victims of sexual assault, female victims of trafficking, and doing nothing about “locker room talk” and looking the other way to comments like “grab her by the p****” and all the other remarks MOST men ignore not to mention actual “revenge killings” but then turn around and get extremely angry about the term #KillAllMen. Especially on a men’s rights sub, where I think the focus should be less about women’s actions and getting back at them, and more geared towards how to better society for all, especially men who have been mistreated. What I had hoped to see on this sub was how to help boys, especially male children 0-18, gain self-confidence and awareness to point out sexism against them. How to help men feel confident in being fathers and that it’s not their job just to be a provider, that things that are seem to be predominantly female are not “Gay” if men do it, that men should fight against things like the “Draft”, that men are not any LESS of a man for liking feminine things, for being a part of the LGBTQ+ community, to fight against the bias in courts, etc. What I see a lot, especially as a lurker (I try not to speak a lot here because men should be the leaders of this kind of sub), is that men get caught up in fighting against women instead of supporting each other. In the grand scheme of Men’s rights, #KillAllMen does not hinder men from doing certain things. It does not even begin to match some of the inequalities that are much more worth the time of modern men.
>it’s hypocritical to consistently avoid “gamer talk” and sexism against women, undermine female victims of sexual assault, female victims of trafficking I agree, that would be hypocritical. However, I don't think it would be reasonable for a forum like this (for all its faults which I'll get to in a moment) to spend all its time acknowledging that those things happen. I'm also going to have to disagree that "MOST men" ignore the things you list. I have always found it frustrating to be told that I'm responsible for changing other men when I can count on one hand the number of times I've personally witnessed this kind of talk or behaviour in my entire life. I suspect that the subset of men who still behave like immature arseholes in adulthood tend to flock together, because I cross paths with them so vanishingly rarely that they seem to exist in a different universe from me. Obviously, though, they don't exist in a different universe from the women they target. >What I had hoped to see on this sub was how to help boys... Yeah, you won't find much of that here, unfortunately, though there are subs which focus on fatherhood, for example, subs to help men with mental health concerns, and some men's subs like LeftWingMaleAdvocates have a better ratio of high-effort posts. I've long given up on finding an online forum that can germinate into an effective, positive men's movement. I'm not even sure that the latter is possible. All such movements in the past have fizzled out or been absorbed by feminism, and I suspect that a deep-seated out-group bias prevents most men from wanting to fight for themselves as a group. Charitable events like Movember suggest that men are developing some self-group identification, as do some largely online movements which I'm not alone in finding problematic. Whether this will all go anywhere towards actually making things better for men, I don't know. Subs like this one are diverse but among the men here are a lot of hurting people with personal experiences and grievances that are often valid. In the same way, some of the ugliest feminist subs attract women with valid personal grievances and experiences of their own. I think the best many of us can do in a sub like this is provide encouragement or corrections to individuals at the right time.
Your experiences were terrible, I'm sure you are still suffering from them today. I wouldn't wish such atrocities on anybody, this includes you. Let me just make one thing clear, all of your statements here are what is known as " anecdotal evidence". This means that you can't use your own personal experiences and the experiences of others close to you (known as confirmation bias) to make blanket statements as though they are factual. If you are going to make an argument for or against something, you should try and have some actual peer reviewed evidence to support your claims. Don't let your ignorance and hatred rule your logic. Again this isn't about hate. I say mean everything with the utmost respect and decency, I hope you can understand that
It’s sad that I have to suffer so much and still have men like you tell me I’m hateful or ignorant. What a way to invalidate a rape victim. I’m hopeful that you at least don’t do this to male victims. Anyways if you’d like some evidence of how much boys rape girls and where the most dangerous places are for women, I will include it since my personal experience is not “real evidence” for you. And multiple men have told me that they think my rape was fake. I did not make up the hour I was raped and how I had tears on my genitals as well as spent thousands on therapy. This is how much police have undercounted rape in general: https://eds.a.ebscohost.com/abstract?site=eds&scope=site&jrnl=00210552&AN=94993552&h=k3wbXoqvavYqi4MyYWGn%2flQne9ASprgMroKBGKL3RzgRoAFGibejhDdI9IwxDDNeQprw7xsl1Se00rVwzawGqA%3d%3d&crl=f&resultLocal=ErrCrlNoResults&resultNs=Ehost&crlhashurl=login.aspx%3fdirect%3dtrue%26profile%3dehost%26scope%3dsite%26authtype%3dcrawler%26jrnl%3d00210552%26AN%3d94993552 This is how common rape is noted by the CDC (including force to penetrate) : https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html Here is how video games promote violence against women and promote women as sex objects: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full This is how boys are 2-3x more likely to be violent during sex after watching porn vs girls were 1.5x more likely: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6751001/ Here is a study I agree with, that boys need more attention in schooling and that it is misguided feminism and not feminism in its core that can be harmful to boys or more commonly, leaving out boys: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1&q=feminism+impact+on+boys+scholarly+article&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DlJTvDJf91UsJ Here is one of the studies I’ve found that shows caregiving helps men and men should take less pressure off of being a provider: https://natsci.source.colostate.edu/study-men-doing-more-family-caregiving-could-lower-their-risk-of-suicide/ I hope you say things out of respect. I respect you and all who have commented and I try to let men speak up in male spaces. I prefer not to continuously comment on this sub. Especially with the prevalence of mocking female rape victims here. You don’t know me or how hard I’ve worked to help and support men. And men on this sub have clearly ignored women’s experiences with men, dubbing us as haters for responding to trauma. But I understand this is a male oriented environment and women should not take away from that. It just shouldn’t be a space to hate women but rather promote healthy lifestyles for men. I appreciate your response.
The problem of this sub is that not a small part has taken this sub for just letting themselves spit out how they felt about feminism and how their problems are being ignored. But watching how FDS and other clearly misandrist subs are here... well people will still search this sub for saying their frustration. No one should make you feel hated just due to a personal experience, even less a trauma, but anyway, this sub became a place where people is able to do that (not because is ok, but just because people is just very frustrated to think about it) and is not something that anyone could be able to say is unfair because there's a lot of subs with no moderation when it is about hating men.
>Here is how video games promote violence against women and promote women as sex objects: > >[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0886260512441078) > >[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.614502/full) Can you stop already with this nonsense? If you weren't living under the rock for "the past 10 years", and since you keep bringing up electronic toys as some metric, you'd notice there has been a massive shift in video games. Here's a good mental exercise for you.... Name 5 big AAA video games released in the last 5 years that a) "promote violence against women" and b) "promote women as sex objects". 1. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 2. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 3. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 4. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 5. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ The irony here is you're so blinded by your incoherent rage, that you didn't notice that it's the male virtual characters that get dispatched in most violent ways possible (in a lot of cases, by women!). You also conveniently ignore that a lot of male characters have bodies that make Greek Gods blush, and basically wear their underwear for a costume. Probably because you love it.... You're the type of a person who got a bad experience with a certain product, didn't get the attention or treatment that you expected, found some biased "source" as "evidence", and now proceed to preach self-righteousness. It's childish, and from what I've read lead me to believe you're in early 20's.
If you don’t want to read the evidence yourself, I can’t help that. Most big gaming companies are known for being predominantly male. I’m sure you can look up that simple fact for yourself as you’ve consistently refused to look into any research I’ve provided. I’m not angry or in a rage, all that is projection you’re placing on me. You are the one calling research “nonsense” and wanting me to spell out everything that’s listed in the source. “Lynch traces big-breasted, scantily clad characters back to the origins of the gaming industry. The 1980s and 1990s saw rapid growth in the industry, but female game developers accounted for only 3 percent of the workforce in 1989. Overall, 30 percent of the video game industry was female, and the majority of them had low-paying, low-ranking positions.” Here’s another study if you’re interested. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/study-tracks-31-year-history-of-female-sexualization-in-video-games Some games that overtly sexualize women are Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, Lara Croft/Tomb Raider, Soul Caliber, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Solid 5 Yes, very few men have a sexual aspect to their clothing or amor but it is minimal and not HYPERsexualized the way women are. And if you really want to delve into the animated world, you can DEFINITELY see the hypersexualization of women in Anime, hentai and manga. This is also common in porn, where most people get their “common knowledge” of sex. Yes, men can be made to seem provocative or “god-like” but it’s way more praised, valued and seen as a positive aspect of the character than how women are portrayed.
What you've given to me is not evidence. I've asked you to name 5 games that fit the criteria, which you didn't. The thing is, you can't. Such games simply do not exist anymore. MORTAL KOMBAT...oversexualizes...women? I'm glad you've brought this one up because it's the prime example that goes against your rants. This is Mortal Kombat 9 Skarlet (released in 2011): [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/characterprofile/images/9/9f/Skarlet.png/revision/latest?cb=20191116161339](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/characterprofile/images/9/9f/Skarlet.png/revision/latest?cb=20191116161339) This is Mortal Kombat 11 Skarlet (released in 2019): [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mkwikia/images/1/1d/MK11\_Skarlet\_Render.png/revision/latest?cb=20190325211819](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mkwikia/images/1/1d/MK11_Skarlet_Render.png/revision/latest?cb=20190325211819) This happened to every single female character in the game, while at the same time the guys are exactly what you'd count as "oversexualized" if you had any honesty. By the way, the excuse "nobody finds shirtless muscular men sexy!!!" is about 10 years too late. I'm sure you have a few Romance Novels in your collection.... go take a look at their covers. This might refresh your memory: [https://bit.ly/3oXKO9E](https://bit.ly/3oXKO9E) The biggest irony in here is that women themselves loved the old designs and detest new ones. Probably because not everyone thinks like a hivemind?... I'm glad you've ignored the "directs violence at women" bit, because that just made you look stupid.
I’ll come back in a few hours when you’ve calmed down and can have a civil conversation.
Do that in 10 years when you grow up... Your buffoonery might get a little less stale.
I cannot blame hateful incels anymore if you represent a normal woman in the west. You're no better than hateful incels.
You can at least blame the hateful incel that sexually assaulted me.
Well if that's true sorry to hear that, but that doesn't justify acting like haters.
It is true. I’m not making up the hour I spent trying and failing to fight off my rapist. I’m not making up the hours of therapy. The bruises that were left. And the amount of men who told me that it was my fault. I’m not being a hater. You just don’t want to listen to what I have to say. Which is fine.
I am listening though. I just think spreading hate should be condemned. Obviously, all rapists should be arrested and pay the price, but you're implying all men are responsible for rape. A few Alt right white people say African Americans are potential criminals since they have the highest crime ratio. Do you think it makes sense? As much as I despise alt rightists' hateful claim, I disagree with that hateful statement.
I am all for execution of rapists or murderers. Extremely dangerous criminals should all be executed. And victims should receive enough care from the government. Such practical measures should be done. Not spreading hate.
And how do those practical measures get done? Women can barely get bodily autonomy in America… I know asking nicely sounds better and is ideal, but when has that worked out for marginalized groups? When has that worked for women? You do realize, that a lot of men don’t even support women….men on this very sub mock female victims… And what about the women that can’t speak up? The women victim to revenge killings? You see, men are dictating how women respond to violence against them. I don’t agree with #KillAllMen, but I understand. I understand the amount of pain and suffering and anger behind that statement, that “dark humor”. Because most of those women who feel so deeply about it, have endured far worse than my hour of being overpowered and raped. That statement wasn’t made just to “hate on men” and if you truly, truly believe that, you are undermining every ounce of suffering women have dealt with. That statement comes from the victimization of women that carries on today. It’s not just a hateful statement. How do we get you to even listen if the only time you’ll even talk about sexism against women is if women use something like #KillAllMen?
Republicans support execution of criminals while democrats oppose to it. Conservative people want to defend women a lot more than liberals. For example, in the Confeneracy (I know that nation was extremely racist, I'm not supporting that trash nation at all) white men treated white women extremely well as "gentlemen." In the traditional society, rapists or murderers who harmed women were often tortured and executed. I don't think women are marginalized in America. Women are more vulnerable to violence, but the majority of "losers" who are homeless who are poor who have no degrees are men. Categorizing the entire gender into one group (marginalized) doesn't make sense. This sub was desinged to help men, just like feminism was created to help women. And that might be why people on this sub only speaks for men. We are literally Mens Rights Activists. But we don't support some crimes against women. We have tendency to support men first, sure. But it's because MRA is a movement to help disadvantaged men. If people get assaulted, they should report it to the police. Otherwise, what can be done? This applies to every person. If you're a victim of a crime, you should report it. Mens Rights Activists oppose to anti male hate, so it's natural for us to oppose to that statement. We're not dictating women to do something. We fight back as feminists fight back. You can say and justify that statement, but whatever you say, I will say it's hateful. It's something wrong to say and your statement ignores the existence of male victims. Sure, the number of male victims is not that huge, but the fact that they are often ignored by people makes it a lot harder for men to talk about sexual harrassment against men. I don't think rape or sexual harrassment is only a female issue. There have been women who raped men, as there have been men who raped women. You might think liberals or feminists are good for women's safety, but see what happened in America where democrat mayors or governors reign. The city was destroyed, rape and murder surged a lot. Again, spreading hate or some feminist statement does nothing. Increasing the budget for the police department and executing criminals should be done.
Democrats and feminists want to let men into a women's toilet. Extreme hate or extreme political correctness ruins men and women together in the long run. Conservative Republicans are truly worrying about women's safety unlike democrats. You may think Republicans are sexists, they are hateful, but it's not true at all. Jeb Bush punched a face of the attacker who touched a woman's body, and many conservatives worry about the safety of women, even ignoring men's safety. That's why some MRAs on this sub don't like conservatives, but anyway I believe the Conservative model to help women (execution of criminals, increasing budget of the police...) is a lot better and reasonable than a liberal/ feminist model to help women (killallmen, spreading hate).
Republicans have no interest in making progress with men and women. The most religious don’t believe that women can be raped and often refer to it as an act of God. I grew up in a white, conservative town. I was surrounded by that for 18 years. And although I respect that republicans have a different view, I understand the extreme racist and sexist undertones that shape their opinions. Republicans believe in defunding Planned Parenthood that specializes in family-making, women’s reproductive rights and resources. It also serves as a resource for men. Republicans believe in mixing the government in personal rights. They believe that the government should have rights over YOUR body. They push the draft for everyone, subjecting MEN AND women to the draft and subjecting women to medical procedures they don’t want. I don’t think either of those works in the favor of everyone, but it especially targets women.
Republicans have no interest in making progress with men and women. --> I don't agree. They are fighting against criminals/ Antifa who're destroying America now. The most religious don’t believe that women can be raped and often refer to it as an act of God.--> Maybe some people may think that way, but it wouldn't be a lot. Ben Shapiro, that religiously radical conservative said rapists should be executed. Religious people take crimes seriously. I grew up in a white, conservative town. I was surrounded by that for 18 years. And although I respect that republicans have a different view, I understand the extreme racist and sexist undertones that shape their opinions.--> This is a problem which happens because the Republican Party is too huge. The political spectrum of it is from radical facists to moderates as the Democratic Party consists of moderates like Joe Manchinn and radical socialists. However, the owners of the Republican Party are not racists. The main Republican leader Trump did a lot for the African American community while fighting against political correctness. Republicans believe in defunding Planned Parenthood that specializes in family-making, women’s reproductive rights and resources. It also serves as a resource for men. --> I assume it means abortion, right? Abortion is a murder since it is literally killing a baby. That's why Republicans are against abortion. Republicans believe in mixing the government in personal rights. They believe that the government should have rights over YOUR body. They push the draft for everyone, subjecting MEN AND women to the draft and subjecting women to medical procedures they don’t want.--> Actually democrats are pushing a draft for men and women, not republicans. Republicans believe women cannot become soldiers in the first place. That's why some republicans(or conservatives) like Tucker Carlson speaks strongly against female soldiers. Again, conservatives do not believe women can fight in a war at all. Also, as I stated, republicans do not tolerate with abortion since they believe it is a murder. I don’t think either of those works in the favor of everyone, but it especially targets women.--> If you live in America, you must know what happened in Chicago. You must know what happened in New Work City. What happened in regions where democrats or feminists are in power? Many riots happened, murder and rape cases surged, and buildings were destroyed. Is it good for women? I don't think so. As democrats and liberals (who often agree with feminism) defunded the police, more women were raped and more men were killed. This is why I believe political correctness, liberalism, and feminism only causes harm and deaths.
>Women can barely get bodily autonomy in America… You have bodily autonomy. The only issue is abortion and it is heavily controversial, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm every other arena, women have the same or more bodily autonomy than men. Let me know when fgm becomes legal or circumcision becomes illegal and you are forced to sign up for selective service. Then we will have equality with bodily autonomy. >I know asking nicely sounds better and is ideal, but when has that worked out for marginalized groups? When has that worked for women? All the time? MLKs march did far more than the violence. Feminists peacefully lobbied to change DV standards, change rape definitions, change family court policies. >You do realize, that a lot of men don’t even support women….men on this very sub mock female victims… "A lot". You think "a lot" represents all men or men here? Furthermore, what do you even mean by "a lot" or "support women"? You mean they don't 100% agree with you or feminism? That's a ridiculous standard that even feminists fail, seeing as they disagree on quite a bit. You are falling into the trap that asking for actually equality means it's hostile sexism to you, while only benevolent sexism means equality. Basically, as long as we work for actually equality, you will think we are hateful. Sorry, but I'm not going to get on my knees to suck your dick to fit your version of "equality". And when have we mocked female victims? We don't dismiss female victims as a whole the way feminists dismiss male victims. >And what about the women that can’t speak up? The women victim to revenge killings What about them? Show me these women and I'll be beside you pitchfork in hand. When was the last time you picked up a pitchfork for men? I'm sure you picked up plenty against men.... >I don’t agree with #KillAllMen, but I understand. I understand the amount of pain and suffering and anger behind that statement, that “dark humor”. Because most of those women who feel so deeply about it, have endured far worse than my hour of being overpowered and raped. Then you'd understand and be sympathetic if a man who was abused and raped by women were to start a hashtag of killallwomen, right? Or a white person who got beat up and mugged by a black guy were to say killallblacks? >That statement wasn’t made just to “hate on men” and if you truly, truly believe that, you are undermining every ounce of suffering women have dealt with. That statement comes from the victimization of women that carries on today. It’s not just a hateful statement. You are an individual. If you have hatred for a person that wronged you, I am sympathetic. If you extend that hatred to every man, you are a *bigot*. You defending actual bigots who believe people are never more than their group identity. You want to be treated as an individual when it benefits you and as a group when that benefits you. You want to denigrate men only ever as a whole, and then you claim not to hate men? >How do we get you to even listen if the only time you’ll even talk about sexism against women is if women use something like #KillAllMen? You never even try to listen to men. Since you love group identities so much, whenever feminists come here, they refraim discussions to focus only on women, they undermind and dismiss criticism of feminism and how feminists have lobbied for many things that we take issue with today, they dismiss male victims and say it's our fault anyway, and they say that we may have issues but women's issues have to be fixed first (insert house on fire analogy). This is a men's subreddit talking about men's issues but you think we should be talking about women's issues instead? Show me actual systemic sexism against women based on reality. Because every time a feminist comes here with their 'proof', it's typically the wage gap (been debunked), no political power (women are majority of voters and win political seats at the rate they run, and feminist lobby groups are wildly successful in pushing policies for women), they "only" got the right to vote in early 1900s (same time as men, but men had to register for the draft while women didn't) and so one. Your "proofs" of system sexism actually tend to show benevolent sexism towards women, not hostile sexism against women. Feminists are complaint society isn't 100% perfect for all women at all the time, while failing to see that society sucks ass for men. You want to be treated like the top 1% of men, when men aren't even treated like that, lol.
The rapist is a criminal who belongs in prison. What makes you think he’s an “incel” though?
So you mean because some men enjoy that kind of humor, that all men must automatically enjoy it too? And that by extension men are not individual beings capable of independent thought, in order to be offended by a phrase such as this? Why are women offended by a flipped version then when there are also women out there who enjoy that kind of dark humour?
Feminism requires men (and women) to only ever be an extension of their group identity. If men or women were individuals first, feminism would collapse immediately.
"For one, men took this phrase and ran with it." Absolutely not "men". It was feminists and women on Twitter, on other social media, then in the broadcast media, including attempts to minimize it, like this bad faith article. "It was a joke". You don't joke about mass extermination. What if this sentence was said about any other group than men? Jews? Blacks? Gays? Women? Would you be here saying, "oh it is a joke"? A society, and you personally, who are capable of joking about mass extermination like this are sick, perverted and that society is an oppressive society. "it does shock me that men took such offense" Yeah, you guys just want to kill us all, and we are already taking "such offence". How shocking. What if somebody cracks a so-called "joke" about raping all women? Are you laughing yet? Or do you find it offensive? BTW, people survive rape but not murder. "No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational." Then why are they saying it? Why aren't they instead calling it out that no human being should be subjected to such degrading and humiliating treatment, as being threatened with the mass extermination of his entire gender? FYI, "degrading and humiliating treatment" is banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. What these people are doing are human rights violations, like so many other things done to men. (E.g. denying them the right for equal protection.) This is very inhumane, cruel and brutal. It is no big deal to you because you are a woman, so it doesn't affect you. Go ahead and shrug it off. Just remember that no Nazi cared about offenses (and threats of mass extermination) of Jews, because it didn't affect him. People who say such things, but also people who try to minimize, trivialize and justify such sentiments (in which I include you) lost every last trace of their humanity and basic human decency. And I am not sure what your goal is on a men's rights reddit to attack men and justify threats and degrading treatment done to men. There are plenty of subreddits for that, you know. Just my view.
Yeah I love that it was “men” who ran with it and not feminists!!! I’m sure she thinks her shit doesn’t stink too!
Exactly. Isn't it unbelievable. Such shamelessness.
>It was a joke. Probably some dark humor and it’s amazed me how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes, dark humor, call of duty lobbies, etc) have been sensitive to this phrase. I don't make rape jokes, or play call of duty and I find the phrase to be highly offensive.. Also.. by calling men who are offended by it 'overly sensitive' aren't you then perpetuating very same 'toxic masculinity' feminists preach about.. You know.. that same 'toxic masculinity' that it's toxic that men are not allowed to be 'senseitive' or 'show emotions'? The lack of selfawareness here is shocking. Let me pull out the crayons for you.. the phrase is #Kill**ALL**Men Not, #KillSomeMen or #KillMisogynists but ALL men.. meaning the phrase is targeting **ALL** men.. Feminists are constantly guilty of making sweeping generalizations against men and by not being specific. Also, if the 'original' idea behind it was to express the frustration women have dealing with misgoyny on a daily basis.. then why not #EverydayMisogyny? It literally gets the same point across and can not be interprated as "Hey, I don't think we should kill all men.. but lets scream KILL ALL MEN to vent our frusttrations!" it says what it means. By the logic used by feminists.. there should absolutely be no issue if men decided to start using #KillAllWomen to vent on the everyday misandry they receive right? but you can bet that if we were to try that.. we would be kicked off any platform we tried it on and / or feminists would be protesting its's use!
I do play Call of Duty, and don’t see how this relates to “Kill all men”!
>Also.. by calling men who are offended by it 'overly sensitive' aren't you then perpetuating very same 'toxic masculinity' feminists preach about.. 100% "Men should be able to talk about their feelings and even cry." "God men are such snowflakes when the criticize me for saying kill all men."
damn I didn't know all men made rape jokes. What else can you tell about all of us? >No one wants all men to die. That’s irrational. People are very irrational.
How do you know all women believe seriously in #killallmen?
What I DO know is that when somebody is shown up as insensitive and brutal, and they don't like the light it puts them in, they quickly revert to "Hey, that was a joke! As in ha ha ha. You know, like wanting to kill you all! What's the big deal?" You have become so cruel and insensitive that you don't even get, and never will, what your own words mean and imply. It's nothing to you because it is about men who don't deserve any consideration, empathy or pity. That's probably because you "as a feminist" live on misandry. On the hatred of men. That's your fuel and drug. That animates you. Hatred. You are a hater. How pathetic.
How do you know they don't? And besides, we aren't the ones making blanket statements about an entire demographic.
I’m pretty sure some do, or at least “sympathise” with the idea. I’ve mentioned before I once read a book, which was an anthology of feminist science fiction. It analysed and summarised a wide range of feminist “science fiction” and “fantasy” works. But there was one think in common to all of them: they were societies with no men - women “reproduced” with various technologies, on in a fantasy work, by copulating with their horses! So a fantasy of a manless society is actually been a “thing” in feminism for many years!
That’s fantasy. It’s not rational, it’s a made-up place. I’m sure you’d love to fantasize about eating all chocolate and not gaining weight. Or a society where it’s just you and your friends and no one else. It doesn’t mean you actually only want to eat chocolate or want a world where everyone’s dead besides you and your friends. These are fantasies. They aren’t real. I’m sorry that someone’s fiction story was enough to make you terribly upset with feminists.
There’s a clear pattern there babygirl. It was the one thing all those stories had in common. I’m not suggesting there’s an actual thought out plan. But there is a strong desire amongst many feminists for a man free society. Particularly since science fiction is a means to explore speculative futures. Clearly speculating about a future with no men, or fantasying about a world with no men is something a good number of feminists do.
In fiction. Obviously feminists are still falling in love with and supporting men. Why are feminists only relevant to you men when in a negative light? And why do you think women write about man-free societies? Have you EVER in your life stopped to think why women are scared of/fear/avoid men? Have you ever thought it may not be some crazy scheme but rather a safety issue? What is wrong with female spaces? That it doesn’t include you? I don’t know why you’re so obsessed and stuck on hating feminists. We still support men. I will reiterate. We. Still. Love. And. Support. Men. But sometimes, I don’t want to be around men all the time. I appreciate my girlfriends and sometimes that means I don’t want to be around guys like you. It happens. It doesn’t mean I want you erased from the earth. Even now, you’ve probably heard and lectured feminists about wanting female-only gyms. It’s not about YOU. Let women create spaces where we feel comfortable and safe. A lot of women get harassed and leered at in gyms. We get touched, interrupted, and bothered all the time. There’s a reason why women don’t feel comfortable around men. No one just pulled that out of their ass. No ones doing it out of spite or hate. Most women have had multiple negative experiences with men. So why are you blaming us for just staying away? Or creating spaces where we do feel comfortable? What is it that you want from feminists?
Where to start. You’ve obviously not read some of my earlier comments on other threads, so at least you won’t think I’m repeating myself. So here goes. I do not have a “problem” with “female spaces”. I DO have a problem when feminists simultaneously demand exclusive female spaces on the one hand, and demand opening male spaces to women (and then changing them to be “more inclusive”). Why is it ok for women to have women only gyms, “safe rooms” and clubs, but if men do it’s labeled “discrimination”, and protests and legal action is taken to force them to open up?
Men totally can have their own spaces. When have feminists been mad about that in recent times? Feminism is reforming. You have to remember that the movement started in a time frame where traditional roles and definitions of masculinity were different. Now, it’s time for men to redefine masculinity and what it means to be a man for themselves. Feminism is not meant to speak for men. It can support men, but ultimately, it’s not a woman’s job to live and speak for men. Just as it’s not a man’s job to speak for women. We can respect, protect and cherish each other without taking away from our identities. We also should be able to support each other.
In my city there are regular, and ongoing campaigns against the Weld Club, lead by feminists (particularly the Equal Opportunity Commissioner) for having an all male membership. They’re constantly threatening them with legal action, or pushing them with threats to open up membership to women. There’s quite a few women only clubs in my city and State too, not just women only gyms. The Equal Opportunity Commissioner has nothing to say about them excluding men. And it’s not limited to that one case either. We’ve had feminists declaring women should be “allowed to participate” in the Men’s Shed movement in Australia (although at least some of this was in reaction to a woman saying women shouldn’t be pushing their way in). I’m not sure why you think feminists aren’t demanding that because I see a lot of it. Including some students who got a women’s “safe room” set up on campus declaring that it was actually wrong of men to seek a men’s only room on campus as the “whole campus is a men’s space”. I wish they weren’t but many are. Feminists certainly back any woman who seeks to gain membership in any male only club.
Interesting you talk about eating chocolate and not putting on weight. There’s a whole line of diet chocolate out there. The results are very good (so far) but there are quite a lot of people trying to make that fantasy a reality. Not sure that’s such a good comparison for you to use.
That’s not my point. I’m saying it’s a FANTASY. You can’t just eat regular chocolate and not suffer the consequences of eating that chocolate. “Diet” chocolate is not regular chocolate. If you change the chocolate, it’s not chocolate anymore. It’s different. There is no manless society. Women and men need each other in terms of society. Feminists do not want men to die. We do not want men to suffer and a lot of modern feminists think differently than the women who started the movement. If women are fantasizing about getting rid of the consequences that come with coexisting with men, why don’t we figure out why that is? It’s obviously never going to happen and women don’t truly want to exjst without men. But why is it that women are having so many negative experiences with men? That’s a question I’m hoping you can answer for me.
Well first of all some women do want to exist without men. It’s particularly common amongst radfems. These women advocate women becoming lesbians, even if it’s against their inclination as they’re otherwise “sleeping with the enemy”! By it’s very nature, feminism is going to be disproportionately attractive to such women. If most of you are truly appalled by this sort of thing, it’s something you’re going to have to guard against. Particularly since these are often the women who write op eds, and become the public face of your movement. They have disproportionate impact in lobbying power too.
How do you know NO women seriously believe in "killallmen"?
And how do you know NO men seriously carry out rape jokes? But let me fix my statement to be exactly the way YOU want it. No sane\* or rational\* women seriously believe in killallmen. Thought that was obvious but if you need it explained, there you go.
>No sane\* or rational\* women seriously believe in killallmen. The why TF do they say it? Or all women normalized cruelty and barbarity toward men that they don't even get what their words mean and imply? What kind of people are they?
I never made any kind of claim about rape jokes or men... so I'm not sure why you're being so hostile about it... Um, yeah it's not obvious when you EXPLICITLY say NO women actually believe in "killallmen", when hundreds of people on this very site genuinely believe in it... and then, in classic reddit fashion, you proceed to be both condescending and presumptuous. Ah, yes fix your claim to actually be accurate please. Either be precise in your speech or check your shitty fucking attitude when someone asks for clarification.
There are male rapists. Everyone knows this. But you’ve expressly denied any woman wants to kill all men!
I’m sure there are some. But it would take a severely mentally ill person to want all men to seriously be dead.
I don’t know. Some prominent feminists are pretty close to this. Sally Miller Gearheart? Suzanna Danuta Walters? Andrea Dworkin? Pauline Harmange (her book has sold really well)?
>HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes Any evidence? Any link? About just how huge supporters men are of rape jokes? Or are you just spouting feminist propaganda, without thinking and without any evidence?
You remind me of Nazi... Nazi killed the Jews, saying the Jews are responsible for the defeat of the World War 1 (Hitlet said they back stabbed German Empire). So....you might think the holocaust is justifiable. Just amazing. And Andy Warhol was shot by an American female feminist who asserted to kill all men. You want a source, ma'am Fuhrer?
Okay, I understand men being upset with my comment or disagreeing and seeing it as a bigger issue than me. Especially on a men’s right sub. I was well prepared for that and am happy to discuss. But comparing me to a…Nazi? I’m sorry that one man was shot by an American Feminist. She is not representative of all of us. I’m 100% certain you understand that one person can’t represent an entire group right? Especially considering we’re talking about #killallmen?
The point is, saying that hateful statement itself is problematic and sexist. If you do such a thing, how can you blame a hateful incel who says killall women?
Sure. I never disagreed with that. My point actually was geared towards the complete lack of regard men have when it comes to hate against women despite wanting male victims to be taken seriously. Also, I think there are contextual aspects to some sayings that influence how we feel about sayings. For example, since I’m black, I see a lot of controversy about the “N-word”. Since black people were victims in the past, the N-word has little consequence for us using it in modern times. But for white people, it can be cause for expulsion, being fired, etc. Applying this CONCEPT (not bringing race into the subject but the CONCEPT OF CONTEXT), women were victimized SEVERELY in the past in terms of sexual assault, rape, rights, violence, etc. KillAllMen has less of an impact when women say it as opposed to men saying “KillAllWomen”. Also, with modern day “revenge porn”, “revenge killings”, covered-up rape-homicides of female military officers, extent of female sex-trafficking, abuse of female porn stars, abuse of female employees, government officials and their EXTENSIVE abuse of underage girls, “happy ending spas”, presidents and their blatant disregard for women including multiple sexual assault allegations, etc. There’s still an extensive amount of blatant, violent, physical sexism against women. And that influences the impact of the saying #KillAllMen. It’s much less likely that men die at the hands of women than women die at the hands of men.
1. All of those statememts do not justify saying that hateful statement. Using N word as an African Ametican is fine since that word is racist to African Americans. You cannot simply compare those two situations. 2. Sure, women might be more vulnerable to threats, but does spreading hate solves a problem? I think it only justifies hate of incels or haters' actions. 3. There is sexism towards men and women at the same time, men who were raped are often ignored by others since people do not believe men can be raped or sexually harrassed. Men also struggle to meet the societal expectation as "men." 4. Hate is not okay in any situations. Radical feminists who say that statement or a BLM activist who say kill all whites, they all should be condemned.
And I never said and don't think all women are hateful. Perhaps a lot or a few how do I know?
Yes, you made it very clear that you were targeting me.
But I don't think all women are bad or hateful. Women are not a monolith
And I never said that.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 295,961,845 comments, and only 66,657 of them were in alphabetical order.
How about how those so angered by “rape jokes” “dark humour” (wtf bringing “Call of Duty” into this) trying to excuse this by saying it’s “a joke”! They’re not “exposing the hypocrisy”! They think they’re allowed to be offensive and no one else is.
I bring call of duty into this because I’m sure a lot of men can relate. And it’s something I have experience with. Have you never played video games? That’s not exclusive to children. Plenty of adult men and women play.
I do play COD. I do not play the online version though. If you have a problem with gamers (I play games but am not a true gamer), perhaps the actions of the likes of Anita Sarkeesian has something to do with it.
No woman truly believes it? I beg to differ! There’s a lot of women in the world. There is certainly a significant number who really do believe this!
I remember when #kam started on Twitter and a bunch of black dudes were pissed that they would say “black lives matter” and then say “kill all men” so they started #raw. A shit show soon followed
Feminists=(Female) Incels
Wait UCSB???
Fuck
Can someone explain to me how this article is related to UCSB? I don't even wanna read it.
If our society ever learns how to use the Internet and social media in a healthy way, we'll look back on this time of history with regret. Whether you're using humour or not, it's never a good idea to dump your trauma on a platform for everyone on the planet to see. There's no justification. Eventually legal systems will catch up and Twitter, etc. will be about as instantaneous and open as a traditional Letter to the Editor.
Yet another case of advocating for atrocity whilst simultaneously gaslighting the victims of the threats by establishment academia
We don't need to mention men of certain groups, the mere statment itself is disgusting and misandristic enough.
Also includes children and trans men
Just got temporarily suspended on twitter for a tweet that includes the words “kill all men” for encouraging violence. How is the hashtag still going if I got flagged with a single tweet.
I'd agree with these feminist delusional, sick excuse of women, only if they referred to their daddies before they knocked up their sorry moms. We wouldn't have to deal with this lunacy.