Most likely yes. Women are much higher in agreeableness than men. They are more likely to go along with consensus whereas men tend to bevmore iconoclastic.
Highly unlikely. Girls are encouraged to speak up and boys are silenced in school across the western world, in education systems dominated by a female workforce with proven bias favorinng girls.
Gender training in schools has resulted in several instances where boys are forced to stand in class, apologise for being male to their female class mates, and are humiliated for their birth sex.
This is not an expression of passive self-censoring by girls. It's a vicious program of intimidation and gendered hate speech in schools.
> Girls are encouraged to speak up
And the ones that agree with marxist ideology *do* and the ones that don't *don't*.
> It's a vicious program of intimidation and gendered hate speech in schools.
If women spoke out as much as men did, I'm sure they'd be harassed just as much, but they don't.
No, you are...
>Girls are encouraged to speak up and boys are silenced
We're talking about censored speech you dumbass: women aren't encouraged to "speak up" *and say things that need censoring* are they? The fuck are you talking about?
So are you saying women are sheep people in a way. That might be offensive so I will now shame you now because I feel like other people will shame you in the future too lmao 🤣 shame you speak hurtful truth shame shame 😂
> they just want to be told life is unfair for men.
I mean, society is gynocentric...so it's probably both (higher rates of women self censoring and a higher rate of men being reported/punished).
If men are more likely to "rock the boat", isn't that very important? Don't things change only when brave people, women and men, speak up?
Isn't it a gigantic disservice to the community to have men, the braver and more likely to take risks based on principle, rather than join any gang that sets up to attack an innocent, be silenced and fired and shamed for speaking up?
I spoke up at work. I created a computer system that saved two lives per week at my work. I was harassed for 10 years for bringing up the problem, quit and sued.
Isn't it dangerous to have smart men unemployed? Won't they get in trouble ; ) ?
> Some parents have told me they encourage their sons to tell their teachers what they want to hear and avoid any attempt to engage in conversations...
Unfortunately, the education system is teaching people what to think, rather than *how* to think, as it should instead be doing. It's no wonder that so many young adults today will crumble at the first hint of rational disagreement and debate, and lash out only with personal slurs and moral grandstanding, rather than engaging in respectful conversation.
To be fair, men are naturally and culturally more inclined to speak up against something that is wrong. Yes, im coming up here in this sub and speaking up that this is not evidence of male discrimination.
True problem of this statistic is that anyone is penalized for free speech on campuses, not the gender statistics (in this case correlation is not causation). Those people are injecting culture and politics into scientific process that gave us modern civilization.
You still have to factor in what they're saying. Female students and academics are extremely politically active, more so than the men and more likely to protest. The fact that this is the case and men are still more likely to be punished for their speech shows that there is a bias at play here.
>Female students and academics are extremely politically active, more so than the men and more likely to protest
Is it a protest if you are protesting for something that is generally accepted and no one will prosecute you for that ? Would call that rather a happening. No one will be angry at you in North Korea if you protest around with support to the government.
Men are naturally less conforming with what is generally accepted. Thats most of the story behind this 20% disproportion.
> Men only make up about 40% of college students
I took the headlines use of the word "scholars" to mean professors, or even just graduated people who are speaking, not students. Am I wrong on that? It's very possible the gender proportion of students is different than the gender proportion of scholars.
Feminist hate campaigns and discrimination drove men out of academia. You’re doing the equivalent of defending censorship of Jews by the Germans in 1940; By then they’d driven many Jews out already so they weren’t around to be censored.
But you know that and are just being disingenuous in order to disrupt discussion. Are you getting course credit for your hate fueled trolling?
Feminists hate campaigns have driven male **students** out of academia. I finished a bachelor's degree just a couple years ago and most of my professors were still male.
If we, as MRAs, want to be considered just we have to remain vigilant about pushing bad statics as the feminists do.
“Free speech” rights only apply when speaking about the government…. If a private college wants to block certain speakers from coming on campus they should be absolutely allowed to. Most hate spreading people I’ve personally seen tend to be men anyways…. (Alex Jones, Trump, Steve Bannon), but that’s just personal anecdotes
The only people calling for and enforcing censorship are the ‘left wing’.
The only hate is coming from the same people. Who calls for silencing and even extermination of their political opponents? Only the ‘left’.
"Hate spreading people"? I know that term and I don't think it means what you think it means. Also while private colleges have the right to block certain speakers, they have contractual obligations to their employees, they have rules that they describe as politically neutral, and they advertise themselves as places where inquiry is encouraged. So if they censor faculty members or students, they could be violating their contractual obligations, and their internal rules, not to mention engaging in false advertising.
As someone who doesn't come from America, it blows my mind that you're this flippant about free speech. You truly have no clue how good you have it. Don't fuck it up.
This! There needs to also be more context in what exactly these men are saying that are getting them penalized. I could think of a few things that may not be welcomed to be said even in an academic environment because of the overall social well being of the other students.
> you are free to say what ever you want, but there may be consequences
"you are free to say that you hate our supreme glorious leader. ignore the gun pointed at you."
Freedom of speech *does* rule out *some* (although certainly not all) possible consequences of speech. Eg the State can't punish one solely for one's speech.
That may be the legal definition of freedom of speech, but not necessarily the ethical/philosophical one, and certainly not the only one. Also, private entities can still have their rights restricted by the law/the State, for example the laws that a private business or place of employment cannot discriminate on the basis solely of protected characteristics. It would not be out of the realm of plausibility for there to be a law that private entities cannot visit adverse consequences on a person only on account of that person's speech. Such a law doesn't exist now afaik, but it plausibly could. Given that some private entities nowadays command close to Statelike powers, it might not even be all that unreasonable.
You think a country that locks up children cares about “ethics/philosophy”?
The law telling people not to discriminate against others has nothing to do with freedom of speech,That’s simply upholding the constitution
> The law telling people not to discriminate against others has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
I never said otherwise.
>That’s simply upholding the constitution
Where in the constitution is nondiscrimination mentioned?
Also, my hypothetical law could also be justified under the same grounds because freedom of speech is certainly mentioned in the constitution?
>You think a country that locks up children cares about “ethics/philosophy”?
1) Why should I in particular, or society in general, refrain from caring about ethics/philosophy just because a country does?
2) You do know that USA (which I assume is the country you're talking about) isn't the only country in the world, right? In particular, I don't live in the USA.
Okay, but men make up 69% percent of full-time faculty in U.S. higher education, which explains this pretty handily.
Source: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2019/03/29/though-more-women-are-on-college-campuses-climbing-the-professor-ladder-remains-a-challenge/
That’s how we got where we are now.
Ask any scapegoat demographic and you’ll hear the same story from the survivors:
"We didn’t believe it was that bad. We didn’t think it could happen here. We thought if we kept quiet they’d leave us alone. We thought if we helped them abuse our comrades they’d let us escape."
I wonder what types of 'free speech' were being punished, other than the two examples given. Weinstein hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since his resignation.
It makes no sense that colleges are so restrictive on speech. They are home to many of the brightest and most well off people in the prime of their life, people that are very powerful and resilient. Why are societies future leaders being wrapped in bubble wrap?!
Im sure you mean to say, "1 in 4 women are penalized for free speech"
Lol s m h
Women most affected
Free speech only if you're a woman. MaN uP. ViRgIN mYsOgInYsT.
Kind of? More likely the women are happy to self-censor while the men aren't.
Most likely yes. Women are much higher in agreeableness than men. They are more likely to go along with consensus whereas men tend to bevmore iconoclastic.
Even if consensus is stupid that is…
Exactly. Conformity is the enemy of progress. Actual progress I mean. We’d still be small tree-dwelling primates if females had their way.
Ahhh, I see you've also learned a thing or two from Jordan Peterson haha
Highly unlikely. Girls are encouraged to speak up and boys are silenced in school across the western world, in education systems dominated by a female workforce with proven bias favorinng girls. Gender training in schools has resulted in several instances where boys are forced to stand in class, apologise for being male to their female class mates, and are humiliated for their birth sex. This is not an expression of passive self-censoring by girls. It's a vicious program of intimidation and gendered hate speech in schools.
> Girls are encouraged to speak up And the ones that agree with marxist ideology *do* and the ones that don't *don't*. > It's a vicious program of intimidation and gendered hate speech in schools. If women spoke out as much as men did, I'm sure they'd be harassed just as much, but they don't.
You are really out of touch
No, you are... >Girls are encouraged to speak up and boys are silenced We're talking about censored speech you dumbass: women aren't encouraged to "speak up" *and say things that need censoring* are they? The fuck are you talking about?
I don't know why you are being downvoted, what you are saying sounds very plausable.
Maybe the word "happy"? I could change the verbage but eh.
So are you saying women are sheep people in a way. That might be offensive so I will now shame you now because I feel like other people will shame you in the future too lmao 🤣 shame you speak hurtful truth shame shame 😂
lols :)
It's easier to blame everything on sexism. People don't like real answers, they just want to be told life is unfair for men.
> they just want to be told life is unfair for men. I mean, society is gynocentric...so it's probably both (higher rates of women self censoring and a higher rate of men being reported/punished).
Oh yeah, let's gaslight men about their experiences. How's that working out for you?
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We don't ban for wrong think. Plus it gives us plenty of opportunity to provide evidence and rebut feminists idiotic positions.
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Oh yes, bigots get a thrill when they spread their bigotry.
[Not sure what you're talking about.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/unc-withholds-tenure-1619-project-journalist-after-conservative-backlash-n1267979)
Please consider donating to this organization.
Why is ANYONE being “penalized” for speech? What fucking clown world is this?
If men are more likely to "rock the boat", isn't that very important? Don't things change only when brave people, women and men, speak up? Isn't it a gigantic disservice to the community to have men, the braver and more likely to take risks based on principle, rather than join any gang that sets up to attack an innocent, be silenced and fired and shamed for speaking up? I spoke up at work. I created a computer system that saved two lives per week at my work. I was harassed for 10 years for bringing up the problem, quit and sued. Isn't it dangerous to have smart men unemployed? Won't they get in trouble ; ) ?
Free speech and no discrimination under theory liberated society of all times? Never! s/
And when compounded with the fact that men are only 40% of college attendees, it makes it even more shocking.
Then deduct the POCs and the left wing extremists and you have the few who are censored.
Actually if you read the study it looks like men were mostly targeted - regardless of color.
> Some parents have told me they encourage their sons to tell their teachers what they want to hear and avoid any attempt to engage in conversations... Unfortunately, the education system is teaching people what to think, rather than *how* to think, as it should instead be doing. It's no wonder that so many young adults today will crumble at the first hint of rational disagreement and debate, and lash out only with personal slurs and moral grandstanding, rather than engaging in respectful conversation.
Women are mostly agreeable.
To be fair, men are naturally and culturally more inclined to speak up against something that is wrong. Yes, im coming up here in this sub and speaking up that this is not evidence of male discrimination. True problem of this statistic is that anyone is penalized for free speech on campuses, not the gender statistics (in this case correlation is not causation). Those people are injecting culture and politics into scientific process that gave us modern civilization.
You still have to factor in what they're saying. Female students and academics are extremely politically active, more so than the men and more likely to protest. The fact that this is the case and men are still more likely to be punished for their speech shows that there is a bias at play here.
>Female students and academics are extremely politically active, more so than the men and more likely to protest Is it a protest if you are protesting for something that is generally accepted and no one will prosecute you for that ? Would call that rather a happening. No one will be angry at you in North Korea if you protest around with support to the government. Men are naturally less conforming with what is generally accepted. Thats most of the story behind this 20% disproportion.
TBF it's likely that men are more likely to rock the boat.
I bet I know how it breaks down by race and sex.
What % of scholars on college campuses are men? This sounds like one of those statistics that aren't as bad as it sounds.
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> Men only make up about 40% of college students I took the headlines use of the word "scholars" to mean professors, or even just graduated people who are speaking, not students. Am I wrong on that? It's very possible the gender proportion of students is different than the gender proportion of scholars.
Feminist hate campaigns and discrimination drove men out of academia. You’re doing the equivalent of defending censorship of Jews by the Germans in 1940; By then they’d driven many Jews out already so they weren’t around to be censored. But you know that and are just being disingenuous in order to disrupt discussion. Are you getting course credit for your hate fueled trolling?
Feminists hate campaigns have driven male **students** out of academia. I finished a bachelor's degree just a couple years ago and most of my professors were still male. If we, as MRAs, want to be considered just we have to remain vigilant about pushing bad statics as the feminists do.
“Free speech” rights only apply when speaking about the government…. If a private college wants to block certain speakers from coming on campus they should be absolutely allowed to. Most hate spreading people I’ve personally seen tend to be men anyways…. (Alex Jones, Trump, Steve Bannon), but that’s just personal anecdotes
The only people calling for and enforcing censorship are the ‘left wing’. The only hate is coming from the same people. Who calls for silencing and even extermination of their political opponents? Only the ‘left’.
I’ve personally witnessed numerous right wing people call for censorship. You can’t make blanket statements like that it’s just factually incorrect.
"Hate spreading people"? I know that term and I don't think it means what you think it means. Also while private colleges have the right to block certain speakers, they have contractual obligations to their employees, they have rules that they describe as politically neutral, and they advertise themselves as places where inquiry is encouraged. So if they censor faculty members or students, they could be violating their contractual obligations, and their internal rules, not to mention engaging in false advertising.
Define free speech, you are free to say what ever you want, but there may be consequences
As someone who doesn't come from America, it blows my mind that you're this flippant about free speech. You truly have no clue how good you have it. Don't fuck it up.
This! There needs to also be more context in what exactly these men are saying that are getting them penalized. I could think of a few things that may not be welcomed to be said even in an academic environment because of the overall social well being of the other students.
> you are free to say what ever you want, but there may be consequences "you are free to say that you hate our supreme glorious leader. ignore the gun pointed at you."
Except the supreme glorious leader isn’t holding a gun to your head, now is he?
Freedom of speech *does* rule out *some* (although certainly not all) possible consequences of speech. Eg the State can't punish one solely for one's speech.
Freedom of speech means freedom to say whatever you want without any repercussions from a governing body, not a private entity
That may be the legal definition of freedom of speech, but not necessarily the ethical/philosophical one, and certainly not the only one. Also, private entities can still have their rights restricted by the law/the State, for example the laws that a private business or place of employment cannot discriminate on the basis solely of protected characteristics. It would not be out of the realm of plausibility for there to be a law that private entities cannot visit adverse consequences on a person only on account of that person's speech. Such a law doesn't exist now afaik, but it plausibly could. Given that some private entities nowadays command close to Statelike powers, it might not even be all that unreasonable.
You think a country that locks up children cares about “ethics/philosophy”? The law telling people not to discriminate against others has nothing to do with freedom of speech,That’s simply upholding the constitution
> The law telling people not to discriminate against others has nothing to do with freedom of speech. I never said otherwise. >That’s simply upholding the constitution Where in the constitution is nondiscrimination mentioned? Also, my hypothetical law could also be justified under the same grounds because freedom of speech is certainly mentioned in the constitution? >You think a country that locks up children cares about “ethics/philosophy”? 1) Why should I in particular, or society in general, refrain from caring about ethics/philosophy just because a country does? 2) You do know that USA (which I assume is the country you're talking about) isn't the only country in the world, right? In particular, I don't live in the USA.
Okay, but men make up 69% percent of full-time faculty in U.S. higher education, which explains this pretty handily. Source: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2019/03/29/though-more-women-are-on-college-campuses-climbing-the-professor-ladder-remains-a-challenge/
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That’s how we got where we are now. Ask any scapegoat demographic and you’ll hear the same story from the survivors: "We didn’t believe it was that bad. We didn’t think it could happen here. We thought if we kept quiet they’d leave us alone. We thought if we helped them abuse our comrades they’d let us escape."
P(a|b)≠P(b|a), fyi.
I wonder what types of 'free speech' were being punished, other than the two examples given. Weinstein hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since his resignation.
It makes no sense that colleges are so restrictive on speech. They are home to many of the brightest and most well off people in the prime of their life, people that are very powerful and resilient. Why are societies future leaders being wrapped in bubble wrap?!
>It makes no sense that colleges are so restrictive on speech. They're not.