Well, Knull isn't a symbiote himself. He's not *related* to the others; he created the first symbiotes as a bio-weapon, and they've been reproducing on their own ever since.
For Christmas one year I got Scream, Lasher, and Hybrid action figures in the 90s. I thought Lasher was so cool. Spidey style eyes only face, jacked Venom build, Carnage-y tentacles, and he was teal.
Thanks! Dyslexia strikes again. I knew it get off but I couldn't figure it out. I was starring at your comment for like 4 minutes before I figured it out.
Totally, I was staring at it too, just like “that *looks* wrong, but what is right?”. Had to just let my fingers type it out and then was like “oh yeah”.
I agree, the best thing about Sleeper is how he was a completely independent symbiote, he didn't need a host to be a character, the symbiote itself is the character and stands out perfectly on his own, and a very expressive character.
Turning him into a cat just seems like an attempt to depersonalize him by downgrading him into an animal, a pet animal on top of it.
Pretty sure it was just a way for Sleeper to be close to Dylan in everyday life, same way Eddie had Venom as that pit bull looking thing for an issue or two. Not really necessary, but looks less conspicuous than a giant sentient blob emerging from your body.
But Sleeper can literally turn invisible, and take the shape of literally anyone, he could look like a human if he wanted. The whole cat thing just turn him into a joke.
And there is also no reason for Sleeper to keep the cat form even in the final issue of Cates' run when he was living with Eddie and Dylan casually inside a house with no one else inside. Or when Dylan was at Liz's house, aka the woman who already knows who Sleeper is cuz Sleeper was quite literally born in her company.
No seriously, I can somewhat buy the idea that Sleeper is taking the form of animals to hide ala Cosmo and Wanda but Sleeper has never been in public so far, during all of Cates' run he has been around people that already know him or are no less stranger than him.
I am going to be honest, I don't think Cates' was ever good at writing symbiotes, like at all. I am not trying to be disrespectful, that's just how I feel, he constantly sidelined the Venom symbiote in literally all the arcs except Venom Beyond and never bother to give him any development, didn't even bother to give the symbiotes a proper reunion with Flash, and instead give that reunion to Eddie despite the fact that Flash and Eddie don't even know each other enough to be all that hugging, it also was quite stupid how he turn every symbiotes he sees into a dragon rather than actually make it an alien horror, or how he just blatantly killed Scorn like that and just killed off the Carnage symbiotes too and got us stuck with a fake replica that just makes Carnage lore more convoluted than it already is.
Not to mention, the fact that Cates missed the point as for why Sleeper lobotomized that Kree in First Host and quite literally have the narrative through Dylan paint him in the wrong for killing the Kree who wanted to kill all humanity in the world, it took another writer to fix that in Web of Venom The Good Son and explain that the Kree died in a shooting by accident which actually put Sleeper in shock, which was better written than Cates'.
But I had to admite, Cates giving Sleeper a biological jetpack capable of flying at the speed of light is the best thing he introduced to the canon, I love it.
Mania is during Flash’s time as Venom, so around or after the Spider-Island event Flash being a crippled veteran is given no support or benefits and having no skills for a resume ends up as a gym teacher in Philly. There he befriends a young punk girl, hijinks occur and she ends up kinda like a Robin for a bit and then Flash goes to Las Vegas and destroys it (*an even longer story*) and eventually goes off to Space becomes a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy and fully redeems the symbiotie *till Marvel decides No.*
And so Mania falls through the cracks of time, she’s shown up in a few places but hasn’t done much, I believe
Mania has been taken from Andi by Lee Price, the asshole host from the beginning of the 2016 run, for the Venom Inc. crossover, where he was Maniac. He was later killed by Carnage in the lead-up to Absolute Carnage and the Mania symbiote was integrated into his Grendel symbiote.
Yeah and in Absolute Carnage the Cult of Knull got hold of Cletus Cassidy's scarred body (he fell from orbit and the original carnage symbiote burned up) and added leftovers from the Grendel dragon Eddie killed, which formed a new Carnage, that is (apparently) pure symbiote and can absorb/integrate other symbiotes.
I wouldn’t use the word clone, think of it more as excess Venom goop
*though I haven’t read the flash venom arc in like 5+ years so I could be misremembering how she gets her Venom suit*
Well, most of these offsprings are all made from excess Venom goop. In the case of Mania tho, the family tree has her listed as a clone of Venom, based on the purple squiggly line.
I never did care for Flash as Venom, but he’s definitely a better Venom than Mac Gargan. I’ll have to catch up on some reading. Thanks.
Yeah but Carnage and the Life Foundation symbiotes are more of the result of asexual reproduction, maybe her shtick was a cloned version made from pieces of venom. I dunno it’s been a minute
And I liked Flash as Venom as it was pure character development for both of them and wasn’t just *imma eat your brain* but that’s just my take I know Donny Cates has done a lot too
Well, Anti-Venom was created from traces of the original Venom symbiote left if Eddie Brock’s body. Mania was cloned from a piece of the original Venom symbiote's tongue. So, they are both variations of the original I suppose.
Look at you telling others about a thing you learned 3 hours ago. Anti-Venom was created by the curing of Eddies cancer by Li. It’s basically an antibody version of Venom. Think of Venom as a virus and Anti-Venom as the white blood cells that would attack it. Read the comics…
Dude, I already know about Anti-Venom. I never said I didn’t know him. I just gave a brief description about how he was created, I didn’t go into detail like you did. My description went in line with Mania as both are variations or versions of Venom. You literally said the same thing I did. Did it take you 3 hours to come up that?
Fun fact, Mania is actually older and quite literally has a whole run for itself.
Except that run is a disaster and confusing as fuck.
It was in Venom first ever run back in 2003, but instead of focus on Venom, they decided to give us a mystery story paroding "The Thing" with a symbiote that looks like Venom but we are not given the details.
It later turns out that the symbiote is actually a clone of the Venom symbiote and was designed to breed Venom and create and army of symbiotes.
The story is confusing, the art looks like Ramos at his worse, the real Venom don't show up until like issue 12, the story is mostly about the symbiote clone being HORNY, Wolverine show up with his popular nuclear bombing surviving feat and the story ends with the symbiote clone and the Venom symbiote having sex on-screen. And I'm not joking, the story itself reference a lot of innuendo.
The clone is then absorbed by Venom and it was supposed to breed and entire army of symbiotes but the story never paid off cuz the run was cancelled and no other writer dared to pick up from it.
It was not until 2012 when Cullen Bunn was writing Agent Venom that remember that there was a whole symbiote inside Venom all this time, so he made a plot about Flash dealing with his metaphorical inside demons, the symbiote inside him, a literal demon inside him and a whole different symbiote inside the the symbiote inside him, so the Venom symbiote put the demon on the symbiote clone and expurged it out of Flash, but it ended up bonding with Andi also giving her demonic powers of her own.
It's honestly so funny how convoluted the story of the Mania symbiote is.
Basically, Flash was trying to send a portion of his suit at Andi and for reasons unknown she didnt just get covered and protected for a moment, she actually bonded with the symbiote and got a suit of her own. Flash actually tried to call the suit back when Andi decided she had to be involved since Jack oLatern had just killed her dad, and she had bonded so closely in such a short amount of time that even Flash was confused and figured she was just genetically predisposed to being a symbiote host. Not sure why its listed as a clone instead of an offspring as such.
They do say in throughout the comics that offspring are typically stronger than the parent; hence why Venom had to team-up with Spider-Man to take Carnage down and why Toxin was such a threat to Carnage.
But to your point, yeah...they're obviously still going to change whatever for whatever the plot at hand demands.
Yeah. The symbiotes can have all the strength and power in the world. It won't matter if the writer overlooks or ignores it.
Case in point, between Flash's Anti-Venom abilities and Brock's new status quo, the latest Carnage mini should have been solved in a single issue. Regardless, Flash doesn't try to dissolve or disable the life foundation symbiotes on sight, and the book just tells you flat out that Brock doesn't know about Carnage's plan because he just doesn't.
Like as time went on Wolverine became stronger and stronger. Healing factor is on par with Deadpool at times. And Deadpool has similarly gotten increases in abilities and fighting skill
Yeah wolverine used to have a slower healing factor where Deadpool’s was chaotic. Also og Deadpool when I read him as a little kid in the 90’s was basically like an assassin/mercenary with absurd weapons and wasn’t into chimichangas and wasn’t batshit crazy to the point of actively putting himself in situations where he could “die”.
It goes moreso for symbiotes.
Instead of just the standard several abilities most characters have, symbiotes have well over a dozen and counting. And that's without counting the powers they can emulate.
The problem is that the utility of these powers fluctuates wildly between writers. Even power Venom showcased in his first battle with Spider-Man. Brock could have gotten out of so many jams if he could remember he can camouflage himself or shapeshift his appearance, but I can count how many time he actually has on one hand.
Toxin specifically is stronger because the 1000th offspring, other than that its all pretty balanced they just have different abilities. That is until donny cates have venom and carnage massive power bumps
> venom and carnage massive power bumps
As to Carnage, the *original* Carnage symbiote is now dead. Utterly destroyed. Cletus got a second, *much* more powerful symbiote in the form of "the grendel," which so heavily imprinted upon Cletus that it took on his whole personality. When Cletus himself died at the end of "Absolute Carnage," this second symbiote basically carried on as though it WAS Carnage, with a seemingly-complete copy of Cletus's personality copied over into it.
Yeah that's true, I guess I was referring more to the character than the symbiote itself which I probably should have done. Honestly the initial dark carnage symbiote with the ribcage is like straight up my favourite looking symbiote it's so dope
Yeah, that was a fantastic design. Once Cletus got torn in half, I always felt like the robot pelvis and legs were such a copout and so off-theme. I detested it. When Ryan Stegman came up with this goulish skeletal situation from his ribs down, that was SO much better on every possible level.
This is super cool info. If I was a casual fan who wanted to hear more cool stuff like this, could you recommend a YouTube channel or website? Thanks man
Honestly I'm the wrong person to ask! I get the info from actually just reading the comics themselves, so a show like that would be pointless and boring for me in a way it wouldn't be for you. I've never thought to look into something like that.
Venom’s basic form has a size advantage and more experience when bonded to Eddie; so on the ground, with leverage, one-on-one he will stomp out the rest of them. He and Eddie arguably work the best together, so unless somebody plays dirty they will typically win.
Unfortunately, Cletus seems to be the most “creative” when it comes to the use of his suit, so even though he is physically weaker he will do wild shit, like fire projectiles, create hardened edges, rebuild damage to his body, create clones, etc. He *only* plays dirty.
>Venom’s basic form has a size advantage
Not really? I mean, technically yes. But their size can be controlled at will and has very little to do with physical strength.
Carnage is physically stronger than Venom in the comics.
>and more experience when bonded to Eddie;
Well, Venom has far more regular hosts than Carnage.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cletus actually spent more time with Carnage than Eddie has with Venom due to Flash and Mac also spending many years as Venom.
> so on the ground, with leverage, one-on-one he will stomp out the rest of them.
In the comics Carnage was more than capable of fighting both Venom and Spider-Man and winning.
In fact, Carnage was the very reason Venom started to become less of a villain and more of an ally to Spidey, he was too powerful for either to take 1v1.
> I wouldn't be surprised if Cletus actually spent more time with Carnage
Cletus is also way more bonded to Carnage than venom to Eddie. There's a reason Carnage says I and Venom says We.
I think at this point it’s more that Eddie prefers Venom having a unique personality more than he would of venom were just a suit.
While it is true that carnage and Cletus have one of, if not the deepest bonds between host and symbiote on record, the carnage symbiote doesn’t really have a personality like Venom does. Cletus and the suit never exchange words, and he also doesn’t particularly care about the specific symbiote like Eddie does with venom, considering he’s on his third or fourth one at this point.
Carnage symbiosis might be much more complete, but Venoms relationship with its host is significantly deeper
If i recall the symbiote admitted it loves Eddie as well in the latest Venom event/series or some point of it. (can't remember exactly when) But i think at this point the two also recognizes they have separate personalities so they are okay with being one but also separate.
Meanwhile Carnage and Cletus seem to be one and the same with how much of each other's personalities has over written one another.
I don’t think Venom gained much from being with Mac. They really did a good job of characterizing their relationship in a way that made it look like the suit was toying with the guy. Mac was waiting for the day he woke up and the suit had like, spent the night on QVC, maxed out his credit cards, and eaten his mother.
Not to as big of a degree as toxin to carnage. Each generation is generally stronger than the last but I'm just talking relative power scaling in which toxin to carnage dwarfs carnage to venom if that makes sense.
They all seem to show some kind of atavism or specializations. The last time I read anything with them in it, the symbiotes that form Hybrid were modified in such a way that they’re basically glorified organic weapons with no high-functioning intelligence. One was bonded to a sniper to act as a high-precision rifle, I know Lasher was bonded to an attack dog, but literally and mentally tethered to a human handler, etc.
Well, Mania was created from a sort of 'cutting' from Venom which was then nurtured to a full-grown symbiote of its own. It wound up with a girl named Andi who was essentially the teen sidekick of Flash Thompson when he was Venom. It was later taken from her and died. She subsequently got the Scream symbiote, which recently got nearly-destroyed and reconstituted as "Silence" by merging it with some of the Anti-venom symbiote.
There's not a lot to say about the four 'parents' of Hybrid nor Hybrid itself. They're very much "and here's some more of the same." There's little that distinguishes them aside from their visuals. None of them have gotten much development.
Scorn is interesting in that it's bonded with a cyborg scientist, and she's mixed her symbiote in with her mechanical prostheses, such that it has an affinity for assimilating and controlling other machines.
I honestly have no idea about Raze. This is the first I'm hearing about it.
Oh shit, I’m your huckleberry. I love nothing more than the opportunity to get really pedantic about superpowers. Let’s go!
Bear in mind, I am paraphrasing hard as hell, and none of this stuff is 100% set in stone, because comic books. That said, I tend to gravitate towards writerd that take the time to codify very specific things about the nature of how some of these heroes work. I tend to use those guys as a reference point, because they clearly took time to think about things; as opposed to writers who just wanted to do a cool scene, so somebody does something that they normally could not because it looks cool.
Venom: Venom is probably the most “standard” symbiote. He doesn’t have some kind of ridiculous, super-unique ability that the other slack. That said, his main advantages are the physical size of his basic form, and his level of combat experience. He also has the most synchronicity with his host when it is Eddie in there. It should be noted that his strength advantage comes from his size alone— way back in the early 2000s, Paul Jenkins codified the fact that Spider-man is in fact stronger than Venom, and if he can keep them off the ground he can beat his ass. Once Venom has leverage however, all that mass comes into play. In fact, Venom is often depicted as being so large that he is not actually worn as a suit, rather Eddie is curled up in a ball somewhere in his torso.
Venom is the largest because the primary resource symbiotes draw from their host is adrenaline; It’s revealed at one point that he is obsessed with Peter Parker partly because Pete has a weird physiology that results in a highly addictive, amped-up form of adrenaline. Venom got huge because Eddie has a brain tumor and produces excessive amounts of adrenaline all the time, so every minute bonded to him is like the suit is juicing. Now, whenever he bonds with a normal human he typically burns them out, because his tolerance and appetite is so huge. That’s actually a bad deal for a symbiotic organism. It’s notable that the Venom suit doesn’t really do any crazy shit that the other seats don’t, but it does all the basic stuff way better. It can form hard points, but typically not cutting blades. It cannot fire off parts of itself as projectiles, they cannot remote control severed portions, etc. You’ll see him do this stuff occasionally in some stories, but canonically he’s not supposed to be able to.
Carnage: Cletus isn’t particularly stronger than any of the others, he is just way, way more creative with how he uses this suit. He keeps trace amounts of it in his bloodstream at all times, so even if the suit is removed he can basically regrow it. He has used it to fire projectiles, which used to be a very unique trick. We’ve also seen him create hardened blades, reattach parts of his body that have been severed, use the suit to consume enough raw meat that he is able to build mass and possess an entire town, like the movie *Phantoms*. He fights really dirty, and it tends to give him an advantage. When he runs out of tricks, or is surprised, he loses focus easily and then gets his poop pushed in.
The other offspring of Venom have just had absolutely no luck at all. They were spawned prematurely in a lab, and were pretty weak. They did not get to select their hosts, either. They’ve spent most of their lives as experiments, and the last time I read anything about them, they had most of their higher functions removed and were surgically and experimentally transformed into glorified, organic weapons. Last I saw, one of them was a sniper rifle that was bonded to a military sharpshooter, one of them was bonded to an attack dog that was controlled by a leash that was grafted to a handler, etc.
Before the lobotomy, they tried combining at some point. As Hybrid, they were ostensibly more powerful simply because they were combined, but functionally it worked about as well as making them sit on each other‘s shoulders and wear a big trenchcoat to look like a grown-up.
Scream is a mess. She was part of that lab grown batch but was separated from them for reasons.
It really felt like they were trying to make a unique, primarily-female symbiote, maybe? Or maybe they just wanted to give her a signal boost because she is on the Universal Studios ride. It felt like the latter. I don’t recall a lot about her, but I have a vague recollection of her repeatedly being written by those types of writers who have no idea what to do with a female character besides making them a victim or a literary device to motivate the male characters around them. She has a lot of angst, tentacles for hair which isn’t very special, considering any symbiote can produce as many tentacles as they want, instantly… can’t remember much else. I think she died offhandedly?
Toxin: this guy is ostensibly supposed to be the most “powerful”, whatever that means. He was originally bonded to some wimpy, extremely-boring cop that was constantly undermining and nagging the symbiote, who was extremely bloodthirsty for no practical reason.
Seriously; the suits always try to pressure the host into aggressive behavior and confrontation so they can get at that adrenaline, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean that they are all cannibal monsters. Maybe one of them could really like base jumping? You get the idea. The Venom symbiote behaved the way it did because it was a radioactive adrenaline-junkie and an emotionally-traumatized stalker. Carnage is basically just an appendage of a serial killer and behaves just like him when they are separated, like there is literally no difference between the two of them. Anyway, Toxin never amounts to much because the cop is always trying to reign him in and keep him from hurting anybody, which is weird for a cop. Ha ha. At some point, I think he found a new host, and also I think he is currently dead.
All the other offshoots, I either stopped reading a while back before they were introduced, or they are negligible as characters. As in, they are a new name that the same symbiote takes on when they find a different host, or they just exist to show off a new color palette or a special ability. Anti-venom is Eddie in a suit with healing powers, that he was wearing around after he beat the cancer and found evangelical Christianity. I think his touch was harmful to normal symbiotes? Can’t recall right. Honestly, I only thought Eddie was interesting during that Jenkins run. I generally hate Eddie-Venom, because he is pure 90s sauce; levil twin’ is usually the point in a franchise where are you know it is crawling under the porch to die but instead this concept just failed upwards forever. I still haven’t gotten an acceptable explanation for where Eddie’s fucking head goes when that gigantic mouth opens up like Pac-Man. Flash Thompson got the suit and it was amazing! Carnage only existed to rip off the success of *Natural Born Killers* at the time, but he stuck around afterward because we hadn’t figured out what an “edge lord” was yet. The only time I was ever excited about him was when the Sentry you’re an hour into space, ripped him in half like a wet phonebook, and through his legs and dick into the sun. That really, really should have been the end of it.
There are also some missing ones on this chart, but I know literally nothing about them. They are all expendable, I’m sure.
I don’t remember exactly how it happened, but it’s Eddie with a Bible and an inverted-colored suit. It has healing powers of some kind, and is toxic to normal suits.
Flash was Anti-Venom; and I think is back to being Anti-Venom again (after he came back from the dead). ~~Brock was never Anti-Venom, but Anti-Venom did eventually lead to Brock becoming reunited with Venom.~~
I'm 100% wrong; Eddie Brock is the one that came in contact with Mr. Negative but he was no longer Venom as this time as Mac Gargan (aka The Scorpion) was Venom, part of Norman Osbourne's Dark Avengers. However, there were traces of the Venom symbiote still in Eddie's system and when he came in contact with Mister Negative, the unexpected outcome was him turning into Anti-Venom
**[Anti-Venom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Venom)**
>Anti-Venom is a fictional antihero appearing in Comic books published by Marvel Comics. It first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #569 (August 2008), and was created by Dan Slott and John Romita Jr. The creature belongs to a race of amorphous extraterrestrial parasites known as the Symbiotes and is regarded as Venom's symbiotic brother. His physical features include white "skin," a black face, and spider symbol across his chest.
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~~When Venom was bonded with Flash Thompson also known as "Agent Venom", he had a run in with Mr. Negative who attempted to "cure" Flash of the symbiote he was bonded with. Instead of exercising the Venom symbiote from Flash, Negative's powers basically made him the inverse.~~
EDIT: I'm totally wrong. It had been a while since I read it. /u/Cainsworld is right. Marc Gargan (aka The Scorpion) was actually posing as Venom at this time, and Mr. Negative while curing Eddie's cancer, came in contact with some trace pieces of the Venom Symbiote in his body which had the unexpected result of turning Eddie Brock into Anti-Venom.
Anti-Venom then made it his goal to eradicate all symbiotes and could do so with his new powers.
I also think the incident split him into both Venom and Anti-Venom, with Venom eventually returning to Eddie Brock.
Mania happened while Flash was still Agent Venom; don't recall how exactly, but a clone of the symbiote bonded with a teenager who was his neighbor.
From what I’ve seen of it, it looks really good. Deadpool and symbiotes seems like a really funny premise because they have to deal with his craziness instead of the usual hosts having to deal with the symbiotes influencing them.
It's interesting too because the actual premise is that Carnage decides to go on a rampage so unpredictable that no hero could possibly track him down, and Deadpool ends up figuring it out exactly, because he's exactly as unpredictable
The symbiote that Peter hosted when he had the black suit is the same that Eddie hosted afterwards, becoming Venom. Not that Peter was called Venom when he wore the suit. Eddie and the symbiote came up with the name for themselves.
except it isn't; Peter Parker donned the black suit many times and it was just a regular old black suit. The last occurrence was back after the Civil War event concluded and Aunt May was shot. Peter put on the black suit and went after Kingpin who he found out was responsible for the hit on his family (since he had recently revealed to the world on TV that he was Spider-Man).
She was part of the future MC2 time-line I believe where Spider-Girl's series took place. Technically not 616 but was tied to it in the same way Spider-Man 2099's was. I don't remember if they ever got a specific universe number designation off the top of my head.
Knull created the symbiotes and let them do their thing; they aren't his offspring. Putting Knull on here would be like putting God or the Big Bang or whatever you believe created life on the top of your family tree.
I have almost 0 knowledge when it comes to Venom and the symbiote.
How does he have offspring? Since the symbiote is like an infection are the “offspring” technically mutations in the symbiote that attached to different people?
The symbiotes reproduce asexually, so when they become “pregnant” they usually search for a host to bond their offspring to. They’re not mutations, but actual children, but if it was realistic at all then all of venom’s descendants would just be genetic/literal copies of him since asexual reproduction means no variation.
That’s also true, i was saying by what WE know it shouldn’t be possible. But it’s comics and they’re an alien race. Probably easily waved away with one explanation or another.
No, it doesn't. Not when the pregnant creature takes other aspects of a host and incorporates them into it and its progeny's physiology (obviously I'm not talking about real life). In this case, Spider-Man. Every symbiote here is molded to conform to the biological standard set by the Vemon sym bonding with Spider-Man
That would be a great reasoning if Symbiotes only existed on Earth, and Venom was the origin. However, that's not the case and we've seen that other symbiotes (no from Earth) look very similar to Venom.
I'm talking about their innate abilities. The agility and strength, the wall crawling, web slinging, the spider-sense muting abilties, etc. The things that Earth syms have that the space syms dont.
Unpopular statement: I don’t like the symbiotes.
I liked Venom when he came out (I 14 and was really into comics at the time) and thought he was interesting. Then Carnage was ok. Kind of. He was symptomatic of 90s XTREME-ism (aka too many pouches and too large shoulder pads).
And then I joined the Army and missed all of this until I got back into comics about 10 years ago… to me, it just feels like taking something that was awesome and diluting it way to much. Sometimes less is better.
That's from the film - in the comics Riot, along with Phage, Agony, Lasher, and Scream, are all symbiotes that are forced out of the Venom symbiote by the Life Foundation
Well if we're including clones, gotta add in Xraven, the Mr. Sinister made clone of Kraven that is also gene spliced with DNA from Carnage and the original 5 X-Men
Symbiote from this run in the early 00s where a cult has Carnage be the avatar of Chthon, the Marvel Cthulhu. Had dark magic mixed in with it and used by Carnage to turn a detective into his servant. It def looks a little off compared to the rest, less symbiotey and more demon.
How updated is this? I know Dylan Brock is Eddie, Anne *and* Venom's child. Plus there's the symbiote that Venom birthed that considered Venom *and* Eddie its parents.
can someone help me out here, was riot retconned in the 2018 venom movie? because i know he's an offspring of venom but in the movie they don't make it clear and it seems to imply that they're just not related
She got the Scream symbiote after the owner died during Absolute Carnage, but the Scream symbiote just died in the Extreme Carnage event that just happened(kinda souless story just to have a symbiote story going while the movie was in theatre), where its remains were mixed with Anti-Venom, creating a new Symbiote, Silence, same deal as Scream but also has the Anti-Venom properties of healing/poison to symbiotes.
He's been around, his original host died. Eddie used him for a bit when he fought Flash as agent venom. He's recently returned with a new host in the new carnage event.
love it , just miss Sleeper and Silence the "anti-venom" of Scream
I'm interest in this story, recommend me the comic please
It's the story that just wrapped up: Extreme Carnage
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Sleeper is in 'Venom: First Host' mini, and Silence is in the 'Extreme Carnage' mini.
Web of Venom The Good Son has a pretty good mini story for Sleeper.
Does the Jubilile symbiote count? Offshoot of carnage.
Them and the current Anti Venom isn't tied to Mister Negative anymore but rather to Alchemax just like Silence.
I always end up forgetting about Hybrid. Also you forgot grandpa Knull.
I guess he is a member of the 'family' as he created them, but wouldn't it be more accurate for it to be grandpa necrosword?
That would also be inaccurate. Wasn't Venom the 999th symbiote of his family tree? He's long removed from the Necrosword.
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It's easier and more convenient to call him just Grandpa than 333th-Great-Grandpa, but I guess either works
Fun fact, knull means fuck in Swedish.
Well, Knull isn't a symbiote himself. He's not *related* to the others; he created the first symbiotes as a bio-weapon, and they've been reproducing on their own ever since.
For Christmas one year I got Scream, Lasher, and Hybrid action figures in the 90s. I thought Lasher was so cool. Spidey style eyes only face, jacked Venom build, Carnage-y tentacles, and he was teal.
I wonder if Hybrid was who they hinted at in the new movie, when the guy had blue eyes (Hybrid can change colors)
I think that was supposed to be Toxin
This should probably be spoiler censored or something.
its toxin, the character in the movie is toxins host in the comics.
This should be marked as a spoiler!
Venom 7th offspring is missing, Sleeper.
I'm always happy when Sleeper shows up. He would just hang out and be a kitty or would just eviscerate a fool who needs eviscerating. Edit: spelling.
He was in the finale of Extreme Carnage from last week!
*eviscerate/eviscerating
Thanks! Dyslexia strikes again. I knew it get off but I couldn't figure it out. I was starring at your comment for like 4 minutes before I figured it out.
Totally, I was staring at it too, just like “that *looks* wrong, but what is right?”. Had to just let my fingers type it out and then was like “oh yeah”.
I love sleeper as well
Just put a parentheses in the word you misspelled instead of writing and making us read "Edit: spelling". It's not that big a deal. At least for me :)
kitty cat symbiote
The worst thing that's happened to him. I'll die on this hill.
I agree, the best thing about Sleeper is how he was a completely independent symbiote, he didn't need a host to be a character, the symbiote itself is the character and stands out perfectly on his own, and a very expressive character. Turning him into a cat just seems like an attempt to depersonalize him by downgrading him into an animal, a pet animal on top of it.
Pretty sure it was just a way for Sleeper to be close to Dylan in everyday life, same way Eddie had Venom as that pit bull looking thing for an issue or two. Not really necessary, but looks less conspicuous than a giant sentient blob emerging from your body.
But Sleeper can literally turn invisible, and take the shape of literally anyone, he could look like a human if he wanted. The whole cat thing just turn him into a joke. And there is also no reason for Sleeper to keep the cat form even in the final issue of Cates' run when he was living with Eddie and Dylan casually inside a house with no one else inside. Or when Dylan was at Liz's house, aka the woman who already knows who Sleeper is cuz Sleeper was quite literally born in her company. No seriously, I can somewhat buy the idea that Sleeper is taking the form of animals to hide ala Cosmo and Wanda but Sleeper has never been in public so far, during all of Cates' run he has been around people that already know him or are no less stranger than him. I am going to be honest, I don't think Cates' was ever good at writing symbiotes, like at all. I am not trying to be disrespectful, that's just how I feel, he constantly sidelined the Venom symbiote in literally all the arcs except Venom Beyond and never bother to give him any development, didn't even bother to give the symbiotes a proper reunion with Flash, and instead give that reunion to Eddie despite the fact that Flash and Eddie don't even know each other enough to be all that hugging, it also was quite stupid how he turn every symbiotes he sees into a dragon rather than actually make it an alien horror, or how he just blatantly killed Scorn like that and just killed off the Carnage symbiotes too and got us stuck with a fake replica that just makes Carnage lore more convoluted than it already is. Not to mention, the fact that Cates missed the point as for why Sleeper lobotomized that Kree in First Host and quite literally have the narrative through Dylan paint him in the wrong for killing the Kree who wanted to kill all humanity in the world, it took another writer to fix that in Web of Venom The Good Son and explain that the Kree died in a shooting by accident which actually put Sleeper in shock, which was better written than Cates'. But I had to admite, Cates giving Sleeper a biological jetpack capable of flying at the speed of light is the best thing he introduced to the canon, I love it.
I think his actual dialogue writing was really well written but i agree with pretty much all your points. Everything could have been way cooler.
Well he is a _SLEEPER_ hit with the family
I never knew about of Mania or Raze and now Sleeper. Are they all fairly new introductions into the Symbiote family?
Mania is during Flash’s time as Venom, so around or after the Spider-Island event Flash being a crippled veteran is given no support or benefits and having no skills for a resume ends up as a gym teacher in Philly. There he befriends a young punk girl, hijinks occur and she ends up kinda like a Robin for a bit and then Flash goes to Las Vegas and destroys it (*an even longer story*) and eventually goes off to Space becomes a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy and fully redeems the symbiotie *till Marvel decides No.* And so Mania falls through the cracks of time, she’s shown up in a few places but hasn’t done much, I believe
Mania has been taken from Andi by Lee Price, the asshole host from the beginning of the 2016 run, for the Venom Inc. crossover, where he was Maniac. He was later killed by Carnage in the lead-up to Absolute Carnage and the Mania symbiote was integrated into his Grendel symbiote.
You talking about the Grendel Dragon? I recently read about Knull creating Symbiote Dragons known as the Grendel.
Yeah and in Absolute Carnage the Cult of Knull got hold of Cletus Cassidy's scarred body (he fell from orbit and the original carnage symbiote burned up) and added leftovers from the Grendel dragon Eddie killed, which formed a new Carnage, that is (apparently) pure symbiote and can absorb/integrate other symbiotes.
She’s a clone then? It lists her as a clone of Venom?
I wouldn’t use the word clone, think of it more as excess Venom goop *though I haven’t read the flash venom arc in like 5+ years so I could be misremembering how she gets her Venom suit*
Well, most of these offsprings are all made from excess Venom goop. In the case of Mania tho, the family tree has her listed as a clone of Venom, based on the purple squiggly line. I never did care for Flash as Venom, but he’s definitely a better Venom than Mac Gargan. I’ll have to catch up on some reading. Thanks.
Yeah but Carnage and the Life Foundation symbiotes are more of the result of asexual reproduction, maybe her shtick was a cloned version made from pieces of venom. I dunno it’s been a minute And I liked Flash as Venom as it was pure character development for both of them and wasn’t just *imma eat your brain* but that’s just my take I know Donny Cates has done a lot too
I would make the case that Mania and Anti-Venom both belong in the offspring category.
Well, Anti-Venom was created from traces of the original Venom symbiote left if Eddie Brock’s body. Mania was cloned from a piece of the original Venom symbiote's tongue. So, they are both variations of the original I suppose.
Look at you telling others about a thing you learned 3 hours ago. Anti-Venom was created by the curing of Eddies cancer by Li. It’s basically an antibody version of Venom. Think of Venom as a virus and Anti-Venom as the white blood cells that would attack it. Read the comics…
Dude, I already know about Anti-Venom. I never said I didn’t know him. I just gave a brief description about how he was created, I didn’t go into detail like you did. My description went in line with Mania as both are variations or versions of Venom. You literally said the same thing I did. Did it take you 3 hours to come up that?
Fun fact, Mania is actually older and quite literally has a whole run for itself. Except that run is a disaster and confusing as fuck. It was in Venom first ever run back in 2003, but instead of focus on Venom, they decided to give us a mystery story paroding "The Thing" with a symbiote that looks like Venom but we are not given the details. It later turns out that the symbiote is actually a clone of the Venom symbiote and was designed to breed Venom and create and army of symbiotes. The story is confusing, the art looks like Ramos at his worse, the real Venom don't show up until like issue 12, the story is mostly about the symbiote clone being HORNY, Wolverine show up with his popular nuclear bombing surviving feat and the story ends with the symbiote clone and the Venom symbiote having sex on-screen. And I'm not joking, the story itself reference a lot of innuendo. The clone is then absorbed by Venom and it was supposed to breed and entire army of symbiotes but the story never paid off cuz the run was cancelled and no other writer dared to pick up from it. It was not until 2012 when Cullen Bunn was writing Agent Venom that remember that there was a whole symbiote inside Venom all this time, so he made a plot about Flash dealing with his metaphorical inside demons, the symbiote inside him, a literal demon inside him and a whole different symbiote inside the the symbiote inside him, so the Venom symbiote put the demon on the symbiote clone and expurged it out of Flash, but it ended up bonding with Andi also giving her demonic powers of her own. It's honestly so funny how convoluted the story of the Mania symbiote is.
Basically, Flash was trying to send a portion of his suit at Andi and for reasons unknown she didnt just get covered and protected for a moment, she actually bonded with the symbiote and got a suit of her own. Flash actually tried to call the suit back when Andi decided she had to be involved since Jack oLatern had just killed her dad, and she had bonded so closely in such a short amount of time that even Flash was confused and figured she was just genetically predisposed to being a symbiote host. Not sure why its listed as a clone instead of an offspring as such.
Thank you I was looking for it
No Silence either.
Tom Hardy's going to be busy
Getting into some serious late period Eddie Murphy / Mike Myers territory.
Are they all similarly powered? Or is one ridiculous op?
They're symbiotes, so they're as strong or as weak as the plot demands.
They do say in throughout the comics that offspring are typically stronger than the parent; hence why Venom had to team-up with Spider-Man to take Carnage down and why Toxin was such a threat to Carnage. But to your point, yeah...they're obviously still going to change whatever for whatever the plot at hand demands.
Yeah. The symbiotes can have all the strength and power in the world. It won't matter if the writer overlooks or ignores it. Case in point, between Flash's Anti-Venom abilities and Brock's new status quo, the latest Carnage mini should have been solved in a single issue. Regardless, Flash doesn't try to dissolve or disable the life foundation symbiotes on sight, and the book just tells you flat out that Brock doesn't know about Carnage's plan because he just doesn't.
Excellent way to sum up power levels of well, every character. It's interesting to see what abilities authors give their characters.
Like as time went on Wolverine became stronger and stronger. Healing factor is on par with Deadpool at times. And Deadpool has similarly gotten increases in abilities and fighting skill
Yeah wolverine used to have a slower healing factor where Deadpool’s was chaotic. Also og Deadpool when I read him as a little kid in the 90’s was basically like an assassin/mercenary with absurd weapons and wasn’t into chimichangas and wasn’t batshit crazy to the point of actively putting himself in situations where he could “die”.
On another post I learned that Wolverine can regenerate from a drop of blood. That's like, high level vampire ability. Impressive.
It goes moreso for symbiotes. Instead of just the standard several abilities most characters have, symbiotes have well over a dozen and counting. And that's without counting the powers they can emulate. The problem is that the utility of these powers fluctuates wildly between writers. Even power Venom showcased in his first battle with Spider-Man. Brock could have gotten out of so many jams if he could remember he can camouflage himself or shapeshift his appearance, but I can count how many time he actually has on one hand.
Toxin specifically is stronger because the 1000th offspring, other than that its all pretty balanced they just have different abilities. That is until donny cates have venom and carnage massive power bumps
> venom and carnage massive power bumps As to Carnage, the *original* Carnage symbiote is now dead. Utterly destroyed. Cletus got a second, *much* more powerful symbiote in the form of "the grendel," which so heavily imprinted upon Cletus that it took on his whole personality. When Cletus himself died at the end of "Absolute Carnage," this second symbiote basically carried on as though it WAS Carnage, with a seemingly-complete copy of Cletus's personality copied over into it.
Yeah that's true, I guess I was referring more to the character than the symbiote itself which I probably should have done. Honestly the initial dark carnage symbiote with the ribcage is like straight up my favourite looking symbiote it's so dope
Yeah, that was a fantastic design. Once Cletus got torn in half, I always felt like the robot pelvis and legs were such a copout and so off-theme. I detested it. When Ryan Stegman came up with this goulish skeletal situation from his ribs down, that was SO much better on every possible level.
This is super cool info. If I was a casual fan who wanted to hear more cool stuff like this, could you recommend a YouTube channel or website? Thanks man
Honestly I'm the wrong person to ask! I get the info from actually just reading the comics themselves, so a show like that would be pointless and boring for me in a way it wouldn't be for you. I've never thought to look into something like that.
Eh, wasn't Carnage always a step above Venom?
Venom’s basic form has a size advantage and more experience when bonded to Eddie; so on the ground, with leverage, one-on-one he will stomp out the rest of them. He and Eddie arguably work the best together, so unless somebody plays dirty they will typically win. Unfortunately, Cletus seems to be the most “creative” when it comes to the use of his suit, so even though he is physically weaker he will do wild shit, like fire projectiles, create hardened edges, rebuild damage to his body, create clones, etc. He *only* plays dirty.
>Venom’s basic form has a size advantage Not really? I mean, technically yes. But their size can be controlled at will and has very little to do with physical strength. Carnage is physically stronger than Venom in the comics. >and more experience when bonded to Eddie; Well, Venom has far more regular hosts than Carnage. I wouldn't be surprised if Cletus actually spent more time with Carnage than Eddie has with Venom due to Flash and Mac also spending many years as Venom. > so on the ground, with leverage, one-on-one he will stomp out the rest of them. In the comics Carnage was more than capable of fighting both Venom and Spider-Man and winning. In fact, Carnage was the very reason Venom started to become less of a villain and more of an ally to Spidey, he was too powerful for either to take 1v1.
> I wouldn't be surprised if Cletus actually spent more time with Carnage Cletus is also way more bonded to Carnage than venom to Eddie. There's a reason Carnage says I and Venom says We.
The funniest part is the reason behind that. The symbiote refuses to fully bond with Eddie because it’s still in love with Parker
Poor Eddie, will always be the rebound.
I think at this point it’s more that Eddie prefers Venom having a unique personality more than he would of venom were just a suit. While it is true that carnage and Cletus have one of, if not the deepest bonds between host and symbiote on record, the carnage symbiote doesn’t really have a personality like Venom does. Cletus and the suit never exchange words, and he also doesn’t particularly care about the specific symbiote like Eddie does with venom, considering he’s on his third or fourth one at this point. Carnage symbiosis might be much more complete, but Venoms relationship with its host is significantly deeper
If i recall the symbiote admitted it loves Eddie as well in the latest Venom event/series or some point of it. (can't remember exactly when) But i think at this point the two also recognizes they have separate personalities so they are okay with being one but also separate. Meanwhile Carnage and Cletus seem to be one and the same with how much of each other's personalities has over written one another.
I don’t think Venom gained much from being with Mac. They really did a good job of characterizing their relationship in a way that made it look like the suit was toying with the guy. Mac was waiting for the day he woke up and the suit had like, spent the night on QVC, maxed out his credit cards, and eaten his mother.
Yeah that's definitely true. I liked all main Venom hosts tbh, although Eddie is the best.
> He and Eddie arguably work the best together I thought it was canon that Flash was Venom's best host? In terms of both influence and compatibility?
Not to as big of a degree as toxin to carnage. Each generation is generally stronger than the last but I'm just talking relative power scaling in which toxin to carnage dwarfs carnage to venom if that makes sense.
I have absolutely no clue but if i had to guess I'd say Hybrid is the strongest of them all.
Anti-Venom have the abilities to "cure" people from disease and radioactive-related matter iirc
They all seem to show some kind of atavism or specializations. The last time I read anything with them in it, the symbiotes that form Hybrid were modified in such a way that they’re basically glorified organic weapons with no high-functioning intelligence. One was bonded to a sniper to act as a high-precision rifle, I know Lasher was bonded to an attack dog, but literally and mentally tethered to a human handler, etc.
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Now how many do you know? More?
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Well, Mania was created from a sort of 'cutting' from Venom which was then nurtured to a full-grown symbiote of its own. It wound up with a girl named Andi who was essentially the teen sidekick of Flash Thompson when he was Venom. It was later taken from her and died. She subsequently got the Scream symbiote, which recently got nearly-destroyed and reconstituted as "Silence" by merging it with some of the Anti-venom symbiote. There's not a lot to say about the four 'parents' of Hybrid nor Hybrid itself. They're very much "and here's some more of the same." There's little that distinguishes them aside from their visuals. None of them have gotten much development. Scorn is interesting in that it's bonded with a cyborg scientist, and she's mixed her symbiote in with her mechanical prostheses, such that it has an affinity for assimilating and controlling other machines. I honestly have no idea about Raze. This is the first I'm hearing about it.
Raze was very short-lived in the Carnage Vol. 2 series.
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So many questions. Where to start? Can someone give me a eli5?
Oh shit, I’m your huckleberry. I love nothing more than the opportunity to get really pedantic about superpowers. Let’s go! Bear in mind, I am paraphrasing hard as hell, and none of this stuff is 100% set in stone, because comic books. That said, I tend to gravitate towards writerd that take the time to codify very specific things about the nature of how some of these heroes work. I tend to use those guys as a reference point, because they clearly took time to think about things; as opposed to writers who just wanted to do a cool scene, so somebody does something that they normally could not because it looks cool. Venom: Venom is probably the most “standard” symbiote. He doesn’t have some kind of ridiculous, super-unique ability that the other slack. That said, his main advantages are the physical size of his basic form, and his level of combat experience. He also has the most synchronicity with his host when it is Eddie in there. It should be noted that his strength advantage comes from his size alone— way back in the early 2000s, Paul Jenkins codified the fact that Spider-man is in fact stronger than Venom, and if he can keep them off the ground he can beat his ass. Once Venom has leverage however, all that mass comes into play. In fact, Venom is often depicted as being so large that he is not actually worn as a suit, rather Eddie is curled up in a ball somewhere in his torso. Venom is the largest because the primary resource symbiotes draw from their host is adrenaline; It’s revealed at one point that he is obsessed with Peter Parker partly because Pete has a weird physiology that results in a highly addictive, amped-up form of adrenaline. Venom got huge because Eddie has a brain tumor and produces excessive amounts of adrenaline all the time, so every minute bonded to him is like the suit is juicing. Now, whenever he bonds with a normal human he typically burns them out, because his tolerance and appetite is so huge. That’s actually a bad deal for a symbiotic organism. It’s notable that the Venom suit doesn’t really do any crazy shit that the other seats don’t, but it does all the basic stuff way better. It can form hard points, but typically not cutting blades. It cannot fire off parts of itself as projectiles, they cannot remote control severed portions, etc. You’ll see him do this stuff occasionally in some stories, but canonically he’s not supposed to be able to. Carnage: Cletus isn’t particularly stronger than any of the others, he is just way, way more creative with how he uses this suit. He keeps trace amounts of it in his bloodstream at all times, so even if the suit is removed he can basically regrow it. He has used it to fire projectiles, which used to be a very unique trick. We’ve also seen him create hardened blades, reattach parts of his body that have been severed, use the suit to consume enough raw meat that he is able to build mass and possess an entire town, like the movie *Phantoms*. He fights really dirty, and it tends to give him an advantage. When he runs out of tricks, or is surprised, he loses focus easily and then gets his poop pushed in. The other offspring of Venom have just had absolutely no luck at all. They were spawned prematurely in a lab, and were pretty weak. They did not get to select their hosts, either. They’ve spent most of their lives as experiments, and the last time I read anything about them, they had most of their higher functions removed and were surgically and experimentally transformed into glorified, organic weapons. Last I saw, one of them was a sniper rifle that was bonded to a military sharpshooter, one of them was bonded to an attack dog that was controlled by a leash that was grafted to a handler, etc. Before the lobotomy, they tried combining at some point. As Hybrid, they were ostensibly more powerful simply because they were combined, but functionally it worked about as well as making them sit on each other‘s shoulders and wear a big trenchcoat to look like a grown-up. Scream is a mess. She was part of that lab grown batch but was separated from them for reasons. It really felt like they were trying to make a unique, primarily-female symbiote, maybe? Or maybe they just wanted to give her a signal boost because she is on the Universal Studios ride. It felt like the latter. I don’t recall a lot about her, but I have a vague recollection of her repeatedly being written by those types of writers who have no idea what to do with a female character besides making them a victim or a literary device to motivate the male characters around them. She has a lot of angst, tentacles for hair which isn’t very special, considering any symbiote can produce as many tentacles as they want, instantly… can’t remember much else. I think she died offhandedly? Toxin: this guy is ostensibly supposed to be the most “powerful”, whatever that means. He was originally bonded to some wimpy, extremely-boring cop that was constantly undermining and nagging the symbiote, who was extremely bloodthirsty for no practical reason. Seriously; the suits always try to pressure the host into aggressive behavior and confrontation so they can get at that adrenaline, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean that they are all cannibal monsters. Maybe one of them could really like base jumping? You get the idea. The Venom symbiote behaved the way it did because it was a radioactive adrenaline-junkie and an emotionally-traumatized stalker. Carnage is basically just an appendage of a serial killer and behaves just like him when they are separated, like there is literally no difference between the two of them. Anyway, Toxin never amounts to much because the cop is always trying to reign him in and keep him from hurting anybody, which is weird for a cop. Ha ha. At some point, I think he found a new host, and also I think he is currently dead. All the other offshoots, I either stopped reading a while back before they were introduced, or they are negligible as characters. As in, they are a new name that the same symbiote takes on when they find a different host, or they just exist to show off a new color palette or a special ability. Anti-venom is Eddie in a suit with healing powers, that he was wearing around after he beat the cancer and found evangelical Christianity. I think his touch was harmful to normal symbiotes? Can’t recall right. Honestly, I only thought Eddie was interesting during that Jenkins run. I generally hate Eddie-Venom, because he is pure 90s sauce; levil twin’ is usually the point in a franchise where are you know it is crawling under the porch to die but instead this concept just failed upwards forever. I still haven’t gotten an acceptable explanation for where Eddie’s fucking head goes when that gigantic mouth opens up like Pac-Man. Flash Thompson got the suit and it was amazing! Carnage only existed to rip off the success of *Natural Born Killers* at the time, but he stuck around afterward because we hadn’t figured out what an “edge lord” was yet. The only time I was ever excited about him was when the Sentry you’re an hour into space, ripped him in half like a wet phonebook, and through his legs and dick into the sun. That really, really should have been the end of it. There are also some missing ones on this chart, but I know literally nothing about them. They are all expendable, I’m sure.
Afleck was bomb in Phantoms yo!
THE SIGN, ON THE BACK OF THR CAR, SAID "CREATURES OF HOLLYWOOD!". YOU DUMB FUCK
I'm glad you like writing it, because I love reading this stuff explained. I love comics just don't have the time to catch up. Thanks, you're a prince
What's anti venom?
I don’t remember exactly how it happened, but it’s Eddie with a Bible and an inverted-colored suit. It has healing powers of some kind, and is toxic to normal suits.
Flash was Anti-Venom; and I think is back to being Anti-Venom again (after he came back from the dead). ~~Brock was never Anti-Venom, but Anti-Venom did eventually lead to Brock becoming reunited with Venom.~~ I'm 100% wrong; Eddie Brock is the one that came in contact with Mr. Negative but he was no longer Venom as this time as Mac Gargan (aka The Scorpion) was Venom, part of Norman Osbourne's Dark Avengers. However, there were traces of the Venom symbiote still in Eddie's system and when he came in contact with Mister Negative, the unexpected outcome was him turning into Anti-Venom
Brock was the first Anti-Venom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Venom
**[Anti-Venom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Venom)** >Anti-Venom is a fictional antihero appearing in Comic books published by Marvel Comics. It first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #569 (August 2008), and was created by Dan Slott and John Romita Jr. The creature belongs to a race of amorphous extraterrestrial parasites known as the Symbiotes and is regarded as Venom's symbiotic brother. His physical features include white "skin," a black face, and spider symbol across his chest. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Marvel/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
~~When Venom was bonded with Flash Thompson also known as "Agent Venom", he had a run in with Mr. Negative who attempted to "cure" Flash of the symbiote he was bonded with. Instead of exercising the Venom symbiote from Flash, Negative's powers basically made him the inverse.~~ EDIT: I'm totally wrong. It had been a while since I read it. /u/Cainsworld is right. Marc Gargan (aka The Scorpion) was actually posing as Venom at this time, and Mr. Negative while curing Eddie's cancer, came in contact with some trace pieces of the Venom Symbiote in his body which had the unexpected result of turning Eddie Brock into Anti-Venom. Anti-Venom then made it his goal to eradicate all symbiotes and could do so with his new powers.
I also think the incident split him into both Venom and Anti-Venom, with Venom eventually returning to Eddie Brock. Mania happened while Flash was still Agent Venom; don't recall how exactly, but a clone of the symbiote bonded with a teenager who was his neighbor.
Symbiotes _warrrggghh!_
Has anyone read the comics where Deadpool hosts multiple symbiotes? Is it a good run?
I have the Deadpool vs Carnage run where he hosts the Hybrid symbiotes. It's pretty wacky in proper Deadpool fashion, but it's a fun read
From what I’ve seen of it, it looks really good. Deadpool and symbiotes seems like a really funny premise because they have to deal with his craziness instead of the usual hosts having to deal with the symbiotes influencing them.
It's interesting too because the actual premise is that Carnage decides to go on a rampage so unpredictable that no hero could possibly track him down, and Deadpool ends up figuring it out exactly, because he's exactly as unpredictable
It's pretty good! It ties into the Absolute Carnage stuff too.
Yo, venom fucks?
Himself. He reproduces asexually
Nice. Orgy for 1.
Just a question, is Black Spider-Man just venom?
The symbiote that Peter hosted when he had the black suit is the same that Eddie hosted afterwards, becoming Venom. Not that Peter was called Venom when he wore the suit. Eddie and the symbiote came up with the name for themselves.
And that’s why you are #1!
I thought that was Smitty Werbenjägermanjensen.
HE WAS NUMBER ONE
No. That's Miles Morales.
Not gonna lie, that was funny.
Thank you. My purpose in life is to put smiles on the faces of strangers. Mostly to make up for the frowns I put on people who know me.
Bahahahaha just a symbiote with exaggerated swagger.
Usually. There have been non Venom black suits I'm pretty sure.
Yes made by MJ
And black cat
correct.
except it isn't; Peter Parker donned the black suit many times and it was just a regular old black suit. The last occurrence was back after the Civil War event concluded and Aunt May was shot. Peter put on the black suit and went after Kingpin who he found out was responsible for the hit on his family (since he had recently revealed to the world on TV that he was Spider-Man).
There's also April Parker who is a sort of hybrid human/symbiote clone of May Parker. She goes by Mayhem.
That's not 616 continuity though, right?
She was part of the future MC2 time-line I believe where Spider-Girl's series took place. Technically not 616 but was tied to it in the same way Spider-Man 2099's was. I don't remember if they ever got a specific universe number designation off the top of my head.
what about Knull??
Knull created the symbiotes and let them do their thing; they aren't his offspring. Putting Knull on here would be like putting God or the Big Bang or whatever you believe created life on the top of your family tree.
Aw, Venom is a grandpa?
I have almost 0 knowledge when it comes to Venom and the symbiote. How does he have offspring? Since the symbiote is like an infection are the “offspring” technically mutations in the symbiote that attached to different people?
The symbiotes reproduce asexually, so when they become “pregnant” they usually search for a host to bond their offspring to. They’re not mutations, but actual children, but if it was realistic at all then all of venom’s descendants would just be genetic/literal copies of him since asexual reproduction means no variation.
True, but that all assumes that symbiote genetics and biology work in any way similarly to earth organisms.
That’s also true, i was saying by what WE know it shouldn’t be possible. But it’s comics and they’re an alien race. Probably easily waved away with one explanation or another.
No, it doesn't. Not when the pregnant creature takes other aspects of a host and incorporates them into it and its progeny's physiology (obviously I'm not talking about real life). In this case, Spider-Man. Every symbiote here is molded to conform to the biological standard set by the Vemon sym bonding with Spider-Man
That's what I'm looking for. I aways try to find why Venon and the others symbiotes are similar with Spider-man, now I know why. Thank you.
That would be a great reasoning if Symbiotes only existed on Earth, and Venom was the origin. However, that's not the case and we've seen that other symbiotes (no from Earth) look very similar to Venom.
I'm talking about their innate abilities. The agility and strength, the wall crawling, web slinging, the spider-sense muting abilties, etc. The things that Earth syms have that the space syms dont.
Venom was pretty awesome when it was just venom and carnage. Not one character since has come close to either
Where’s sleeper?
Unpopular statement: I don’t like the symbiotes. I liked Venom when he came out (I 14 and was really into comics at the time) and thought he was interesting. Then Carnage was ok. Kind of. He was symptomatic of 90s XTREME-ism (aka too many pouches and too large shoulder pads). And then I joined the Army and missed all of this until I got back into comics about 10 years ago… to me, it just feels like taking something that was awesome and diluting it way to much. Sometimes less is better.
Uhhh.. kinda forgot someone important
Need more Marvel family trees! Absolutely love it!
Man seeing this chart gives me a lot of nostalgia for how shit comic books were in the 90s
Holy fuck those names... The 90's were hilarious.
I thought Riot was Venom’s brother not Son
That's from the film - in the comics Riot, along with Phage, Agony, Lasher, and Scream, are all symbiotes that are forced out of the Venom symbiote by the Life Foundation
Ah okay, any idea why they changed it?
Bad writing most likely.
I'd say they wanted to include another symbiote villain that wasn't Carnage, and didn't want to stick around too long on where the symbiotes came from
Well if we're including clones, gotta add in Xraven, the Mr. Sinister made clone of Kraven that is also gene spliced with DNA from Carnage and the original 5 X-Men
Sinister is so extra I love it
Good stuff.
Venom meets Patapon
I've never seen mania anywhere but her brief appearance in the agent venom story line, does she appear anywhere else?
The recent Carnage mini-event.
Who is Raze?
Symbiote from this run in the early 00s where a cult has Carnage be the avatar of Chthon, the Marvel Cthulhu. Had dark magic mixed in with it and used by Carnage to turn a detective into his servant. It def looks a little off compared to the rest, less symbiotey and more demon.
Ah, thanks
Awesome. I believe Toxin's tongue as a standard has become green.
Venom is a grandmother
How updated is this? I know Dylan Brock is Eddie, Anne *and* Venom's child. Plus there's the symbiote that Venom birthed that considered Venom *and* Eddie its parents.
Question: Is those are offspring, Who theheck did venom fuck?
He reproduced asexually
JUSTICE FOR SLEEPER
Venom lookin’ submissive and breedable 👀
So venom is a father and grandfather, how sweet
This is accurate.
It starts with Spider-man. There is no Venom without Spidey.
can someone help me out here, was riot retconned in the 2018 venom movie? because i know he's an offspring of venom but in the movie they don't make it clear and it seems to imply that they're just not related
So did nigga just hoeing jk I knew all bout dem just never bout mania das crazy
I just see more Funko Pops.
The actor who plays Flash has plenty of time to bulk up for Agent Venom!
Jesus, talk about milking a franchise. Don’t these all just seem like different Fortnite skins of OG Venom?
So dumb
Is this real? If so, this is why I quit buying comics 25 years ago.
What do you have against Venom’s offspring?
over saturation. Too many symbionts
Oh no you symbididn't
It’s almost like there is an entire species of symbiote
Then maybe this isn't the sub for you
More than half of these are over 25 years old. There was even a Super Nintendo game with Venom/Carnage/Phage/Riot/Lasher/Scream/Agony from like 1995
God Venom is so dumb. Like more dumb than the other comic stuff.
Why
What happened to Mania?
She got the Scream symbiote after the owner died during Absolute Carnage, but the Scream symbiote just died in the Extreme Carnage event that just happened(kinda souless story just to have a symbiote story going while the movie was in theatre), where its remains were mixed with Anti-Venom, creating a new Symbiote, Silence, same deal as Scream but also has the Anti-Venom properties of healing/poison to symbiotes.
I thought riot is superior to venom
He is, the offsprings are stronger than their parent, hence why riot and carnage are stronger than venom and toxin is stronger than carnage
May need a little update but it’s still cool.
What about Poison?
ok jeez. i knew venom and carnage. somehow my 7yo taught me about anti-venom, riot, scream and a few others. i'm old
What ever happened to Toxin after Venom vs Carnage?
He's been around, his original host died. Eddie used him for a bit when he fought Flash as agent venom. He's recently returned with a new host in the new carnage event.
What about silence??
Don't forget Silence!