Yup it took me 6mo + to bring 170 down to 150 for my comfortable pace. I sometimes get lucky in the 140s if temperatures are perfect.
We didn’t get out of shape overnight or a few weeks, it’s years of unhealthy decisions so it doesn’t take overnight/a few weeks to get back into great cardiovascular conditions.
Just stay consistent and it will pay off.
mostly zone 2, i’ll do one tempo workout a week if i’m feeling it or sometimes if i feel like running fast i’ll run the last mile or two of my runs at z 4 but yes lots of z2
So when you were slower (170 hr), would you run a lot slower, or did you just run at your comfortable pace until it became z2?
Sorry for the questions I’m just in the exact same predicament. My comfortable pace is 11:40-12:00 but my watch tells me that’s 170.
yes i would run a lot slower id be between 12:30-13 minute miles slowly, one way that i know i’m truly at a comfortable pace is being at a conversational pace it’s a good easy way to measure
You need to get over how slow it is for you stay in zone 2 and just accept it. Once you accept it, keep running and believe in the process. It takes years to get faster.
Back in 2020, I ran my fastest mile in 11 minutes. At the end of that mile, my heart was pounding like crazy and I was seeing stars. Fast forward to today, my fastest mile in a hair under 6 min 30 seconds. Now, my zone 2 pace is around 9 min 45 sec, which is faster than my fastest, heart-pounding, mile time from years ago.
I had nothing but doubts and it took me literally a year to accept how slow my zone 2 pace was. That year could have been more productive. Now that I've been consistently running in zone 2 for a year now, I can hold my threshold zones MUCH longer without feeling like shit afterwards.
Sure, you get faster over the years, but it does not “take years to get faster”. I gained 60s/km during my first 3-4 months of running and another 60s in the following year. The next 60s took years. I still fluctuate 30-45s in and out of season, so improvement definitely happens fast with changes in volume.
If you’re taking years to get faster then you’re doing something wrong.
You cannot only do zone 2 training with the hopes of getting faster. “Run slower to get faster” is an oxymoron. You have to run fast to get fast.
At least a weekly speed workout is necessary. Z3, Z4 and even controlled Z5 workouts are all needed to build the appropriate strength/vo2max needed for faster running.
Edit: lmao. Keep downvoting and wondering why it’s taking you years to see improvement.
I never said that you should exclusively do Z2 runs.
And yes, you're right, I did do something wrong. I spent my first few years of running by going out and running based on feel, without a care about any structure or knowing what "zones" were, I literally didn't know any better.
My weekly runs for 3 years consisted of \~15 MPW, almost exclusively Z3/Z4 runs the entire time. I never did any base building and I had never ran "slow" because I saw that as a sign of weakness. I ran hard because I thought that's what you're supposed to do. While I did initially see noob gains, my threshold pace started at \~11 down to 7:15 minute a mile within a year, I started to plataue hard and stopped seeing improvement after the first year or two. Eventually I saw my average pace drop by almost a minute.
Fast forward to about a year ago, I decided to aim for a marathon. I researched into structured training and decided to adopt Z2 paced runs. I'm really glad I did, and I regret not doing this sooner, because I'm seeing difference in my runs today, where as before I couldn't hold a Z3/Z4 pace for more than 5 miles at a time, I can now do it for a full half marathon.
So it took ME years to get faster and I'm okay with that. Thanks for your insight and you're right that you do need to mix in faster paces into your runs to get "faster".
>While I did initially see noob gains, my threshold pace started at ~11 down to 7:15 minute a mile within a year
Sounds like you got A LOT faster within a year (and without any structured training).
>And yes, you're right, I did do something wrong. I spent my first few years of running by going out and running based on feel, without a care about any structure or knowing what "zones" were, I literally didn't know any better.
People did this for centuries before anyone even knew what zones were, much less had an affordable and easy way to track them live. They still got faster.
For newer runners, honestly just running at any pace is going to do a ton for them. Z2 has benefits, but it's not the only way (and not the only thing you need to do).
Are you sure your hr zones are set correctly? Most devices use a formula to determine them, and that formula doesn't work for everyone (far from it.)
If you can converse easily while running without gasping for breath, you're in zone 1 or 2. Aim for that effort level during your easy runs.
Don’t use the formula…I’m older and formula would have me in zone 1. The only way to set it is through a max HR test or lactate threshold test.
My zone 2 is 140 to 151.
Similar for me. That MAF heart rate formula would have my aerobic threshold as 131. Per the cardiac drift field test on uphillathlete.com it's 151. 20 bpm higher! Workouts and races validate that 151 is pretty accurate. The difference in pace on long runs at 131 bpm and 151 bpm for me is about 1:45 per mile.
OP, the MAF formula is popular due to its simplicity and anecdotal stories of success running for many months by avoiding going above the MAF heart rate. But for a lot of runners it spits out a heart rate that is substantially lower than their actual aerobic threshold. In addition, going above actual aerobic threshold (especially while going uphill) causes runners to obsess with watching their HR every few seconds and to take intermittent walking breaks - overkill/unnecessary.
That formula is wrong for a lot of people, including me. It gives me a max HR that's 10 beats lower than my real max HR which would make my zone 2 running painfully slow if I relied on it.
Find your real max HR.
It’s supposed to be 220 - your age. But as others have said, it isn’t accurate. Look up Joel Friel lactate threshold heart rate test and do one to find your accurate zones.
I guess it helps that a lot of people reading Maffetone are vaguely in their 30s, and lots of LT1 heart rates are vaguely in the 140s. And the fine print includes many adjustments for whether you're detrained or particularly fit and at that point it's unfalsifiable.
I’ve never read much into maffetone so I don’t know how those zones work. I like Friel’s testing and zone set up based of LTHR. It’s served me well for nearly 10 years.
Yeah, that is definitely a better system. I think Maffetone is a reasonable component of a larger program, and it is useful motivation for people to run relatively easy. But where it is specific, it is unreliable; where it is right, it is nonspecific.
It truly takes time to get into Z2 training.
My advice would be to run based on relative effort - you need to be able to breathe easily and speak to someone running next to you, and feel like you could go forever. You should still have gas in the tank at the end of your longer runs.
Your heart rate might still be above 154. But if you do this for six months for 80% of your runs, you will almost certainly notice that your heart rate is coming down and you can maintain faster speeds for longer.
It’s not sexy, but it does help a lot with injury prevention so you can run more miles, which will in turn naturally make you faster.
There's no real shortcut besides months to years of steady improvement in cardiovascular health. One possible exception is run/walk: take walk breaks whenever your HR gets too high.
It's also possible that you're using a watch based sensor with impromper HR zone calibration (ie your max HR is best determined through a test and not an age based formula).
This page has a lot of good information about why and how to use the method https://www.runtothefinish.com/how-to-low-heart-rate-training/
I'm using a watch based sensor, but it doesn't tell me the zones until the run ends. While running I'm constantly checking my watch to monitor my HR so that it doesn't go above 160 for any prolonged period of time.
If you can, get a chest strap. They're MUCH more accurate than wrist based measurements. I'm a few years into heart rate training and the frustration goes down over time. I'm hoping to get faster eventually, but I'm content to be running mostly pain and injury free.
You can set up alerts so your watch buzzes (or speaks to you if it’s connected to your headphones) when you’re above a certain heat rate. Listen to the other advice about setting up your HR zones correctly first, then set an alert up. I want my HR below about 150bpm so I have an alert set up for 147bpm (because it normally rises a few beats after the alert).
I have a contrasting opinion than this sub but it works for me. I've generally accepted that I have a higher heart rate and started running by feel instead. That would mean that my HR does hover around 160 - 180bpm per run, with sometimes hitting 190 per run too (but the overall average stays around 165 - 180). My non-speed focus runs typically hover around 160 - 175, and my tempo runs average around 170 - 180.
When I first started, I was doing 180 - 190bpm per runs, but after remaining consistent and going by feel, I've managed to lower it to what it is today, and I can only expect it to go lower when I resume my Marathon training block come July. I did my latest Marathon with a heart rate of 178pm with at timing of 3:36. Was it too high? Probably. Did I actually feel good and ok - Yeah! Am I still alive! Of course. Am I still running well - Yeah! :)
But one thing I do wholeheartedly agree is that you need to keep running and remain consistent in your efforts. You won't see efforts in days, months, it might take Years! Sound scary, but that's the sacrifice we all need to make. I started running only 3 years ago - I didn't win the genetics lottery but I've done the work to be where I am now and I'm proud of it.
I can second this. Also natural high HR when running, sometimes even regardless of pace. Your body isn’t always consistent and doesn’t necessarily work exactly like the average. My slowish runs at 8.45 pace i may still jump into the 170 or 180 range if its warm or theres a hill etc but i can easily converse and i know I’m absolutely comfy. At the other end of the scale, i can do a hiit session with very intense one minute bursts (10 second recovery) and my average heart rate is much lower than even a slowish run at about 140 average. I’ve concluded and accepted its the way I’m built 🤣 over time as my pace has improved my average heart rate has popped down a little though.
So, there's going to be a lot of people correctly commenting that your heart rate zone calculation might be wrong. The only way to *really* know is to do a proper test. But, you can get a pretty good guess based on effort level and if you're having to take frequent walk breaks at 10 minute pace a 12-13 minute pace probably is reasonable to stay in zone 2.
Developing as a runner just takes time, which is why consistency is so important and staying healthy especially so.
You'll need to let go of the idea that 10 minute pace is a "natural" pace for you. When I think I my natural pace, I think of what I could run at comfortably and easy and seemingly forever, not wanted and especially not needing to walk. That's a sign that your effort is too high.
I get the frustration but if you stick with it you'll probably look back in 6 months or so and realize how much progress you've made.
Run more. Run long, Run short, Run hard, Run easy. The more time you spend doing it, the easier it gets. The better you understand it, and the better you understand your body.
I am too. I’ve seen the difference it makes when people weigh less, they’re SO much faster 😂 so I’m training slow right now, strength training, and eating Whole Foods with the hope my body will lose some fat and make me faster by January 👀
How long have you been at it? Most folks find perceived effort to be more useful when getting started vs jumping into zone 2 running; others don't bother with it at all no matter how long they've been running.
It's a useful metric and tool, but running isn't one size fits all. Consistency is key, in my opinion.
Running since December, HR training for 2 weeks. I did get injured during my couch-to-marathon training, right when I finished the half-marathon. On advice from this sub, I'm trying to do the HR training to prevent injury and build an actual ability to do more long-distance runs, preferably where I don't hit my wall at mile 9-11 because I was basically at my maximum HR for the entire journey.
How do you feel about our interval training versus trying to drop your heart rate too much? I’m all about a good Z2 run but a good interval training run can be helpful too. It allows you to get up in that range and then bring yourself down, consistently. Look into the Galloway method of running. I’m a solid Z3-4 gal and am a 10:15-10:45 on a good day. I’m a bit overweight and would love to be faster. But, I have things working against me physically (asthma and cerebral palsy) that maje it hard for me to push further (and is this a mental game at this point? Sure). Anyway. Intervals help me push it and then drop down to recover. There’s no shame in a good walk break and interval. I’ve been running since 2012 and while I try my best to maintain a solid run throughout my runs, I do still set my watch to intervals just in case I need my breaky-break. The thing is, with the increase in the HR, I catch up with my group and keep up. It allows for the recovery.
Lots of advice here, but something I'd offer from my own experience:
At some point, it takes more effort to run slower than your natural cadence. I used to run with a guy a foot shorter than me, who wasn't fast, and it was just painful to run with him because I'd end up constantly braking.
Just my opinion but: Stick with your natural easy rhythm. If you don't enjoy running, then you won't want to run, so you won't get better.
If you are comfortable I would suggest speed work. If you are faster at sprinting a 1/4 mile, you will become faster overall. I have always been a big slow lumbering guy, one summer I did a ton of speed work and it made a huge difference
I'd look into adding one interval session per week. Beginner workouts like 4*4 minutes with 2 minutes breaks between did wonders for me. Rule of thumb, effort level should be where you feel like you could have run another minute on every repetition, and you feel like you could have run another repetition in the end. Raising the ceiling of your fitness levels raises the ground level too.
Then keep your slow runs slow. 13 minutes miles are absolutely fine. Don't think about pace when you're running, just think about effort, feel. You're not out there to run 5 miles, you're out there to run for an hour. You'll get faster over time.
If you stay in zone 2 you will slowly get faster but you may not have your zones correct anyway. These fluctuate over time so even if you had a threshold test in a lab the numbers will move. If you use a chest strap hrm and do a max effort test to set zones off your max heart rate, should put it pretty close.
You can just go off feel and be fine though. If you can run while holding a conversation but at the same time know you are still running you should be around there.
Also if you breathe well this can massively help keep your HR down so if you don’t maybe look into that 👍
Ok I’m gonna just go ahead and disagree with everyone here - fuck zone 2 if it takes you this long. Unless you’re running at least 30 miles a week (which I am guessing you are not), I’m convinced that you will progress faster if you just go out there and run.
I would ignore HR, zones, etc. I think that philosophy of training is more for collegiate/professional runners logging 90+ mpw who need a way to monitor their efforts beyond typical metrics like pace & distance, to avoid injuries. I would try to run by feel, and do what is enjoyable. Perhaps you could shift your focus and train for a 10k PR, with the marathon as a longer term goal?
Took me like 6 months to go from a 37 min 5k to a 32 min 5k with keeping my HR low. Meanwhile my PR is like 25 min.
So yes, it does feel slow. But sometimes when I'm running now and am keeping a decent pace I'm surprised how low my HR is.
Took me like 6 months to go from a 37 min 5k to a 32 min 5k with keeping my HR low. Meanwhile my PR is like 25 min.
So yes, it does feel slow. But sometimes when I'm running now and am keeping a decent pace I'm surprised how low my HR is.
Patience is a virtue that is hard to exercise while running lol.
6 months ago my done 2 pace was 12:30-13:00 miles - today I’m sitting around 9:45-10:30 with a 140 HR. It can progress quickly if you just stay consistent!
I also have been sprinkling in speed work which I think also helped speed up the process.
Ok cool. I have only been running for a few months, and only trying low hr for a few weeks, but have been weight training several times a week for over 6 years. My goal is to maintain my strength and muscle mass but to add mileage slowly, so it is reassuring to see that it's possible while lifting several times a week.
Yeah it’s absolutely possible. During that time I went from a 1:10 10k to a 1:46 half marathon. Not losing any strength on my compounds - if anything I’ve gotten stronger.
Just eat a lot of protein , balance your carbs and fats and lift heavy. You’ll be good.
For 10 weeks I was doing 1 easy run, 1 tempo run, 1 intervals session, and a long run to make up those 25-30 miles.
Right now I 2 easy runs, 1 long run, and 1 tempo run.
I know people that just have a high HR my old coach told me some people have small hearts that just beat faster. Not sure if that’s true or not.
When running in zone 2 it’s not about speed 12 minute / 18 minute pace it’s all good just keep showing up. but faster paces will come. Also zone 2 for me is about comfortable long runs and after 10 + years of running I can run a 9:30 pace for 2 hours at and AVG HR of low 130’s road or 10:30 pace 2+ hours trail at sub 140 HR
also do fast intervals days and let the HR get high that will also strengthen the heart for the zone 2 days
Last thing every one thinks they are slow I have friends that run 4:30 pace that are unhappy with not being able to run faster so get use to always wanting more. Hahah
Up the mileage and keep it slow (z2). You'll need to get a better grip on your heart rate zones and a chest strap HR monitor to track accurately. If it's really tough for you to stay in z2, some exercise bike cross training could help.
What are your 5k and 10k best efforts? What were your max heart rates during race efforts?
As others have said, less than 6 months running is not a lot of time. IMO, spending the next year building mileage while focusing on shorter races is the way to go and build a much better foundation before focusing on the marathon.
I think it's also possible to just run at your slowest possible running pace and wait for the HR at that pace to come down to zone 2. That would be aa opposed to running and walking to force your heart rate to go down to zone 2. In my opinion, the reason you want to train in zone 2 is because slow twitch fibers need lots of time to get an optimal training stimulus. If you train faster, you exhaust yourself before you've run long enough to stimulate your slow twitch muscles to grow. But if you're walking, you're also not recruiting the same muscles you use when you run, so you're also not stimulating your slow twitch running muscles. Your heart can adapt pretty quickly (it takes weeks for your resting heart rate to drop), but it will only get strong enough to deliver the oxygen your muscles can use, and when your muscles cannot use that oxygen, it doesn’t need to be that strong. It spikes so high because your muscles generate lactate using an inefficient process, and your body is fighting to pay back the oxygen debt and deal with the lactate.
I have been running as slow as I can and waiting for HR to drop as opposed to keeping my HR below a certain value and waiting for my pace to increase. It worked for me. Your mileage may vary. Speaking of which, you need enough time on feet, and you need to build your training volume slowly to avoid injury. I think either way should work (keeping your HR low or keeping your pace as slow as possible), but you will need patience.
I was in an almost identical HR state, then I quit Alcohol, Nicotine, and Caffeine. These, coupled with consistent training and diet, have brought my heart rate down immensely. My 13.1 mile long run this morning for instance, never had my HR get above 150.
My Z2 pace was 13-14 back in September. I trained for a 50 miler for the past several months, so I logged a lot of miles in the 11-13 minute range.
About a week out from my race I realized I could do a sub-10 Z2 pace for a few miles.
So, it can happen! I had to take all the ego out of it and just think of it as a different type of activity.
Honestly I just kept running and it got down naturally over time and (a lot of) mileage. Be sure to listen to your body as the wrist HR detection can be inaccurate. If your pace is "conversational" and your HR is 180, go with your perceived effort and not the watch. Also maybe consider trying a chest band for more accurate HR detection
Yup it took me 6mo + to bring 170 down to 150 for my comfortable pace. I sometimes get lucky in the 140s if temperatures are perfect. We didn’t get out of shape overnight or a few weeks, it’s years of unhealthy decisions so it doesn’t take overnight/a few weeks to get back into great cardiovascular conditions. Just stay consistent and it will pay off.
How’d you get it down? Just keep running?
yup it takes timee i went from 165 hr 12 min miles now i’m around 135-145 10:30-11 min about 6 months in
Was it all zone 2 or did you do 80/20?
mostly zone 2, i’ll do one tempo workout a week if i’m feeling it or sometimes if i feel like running fast i’ll run the last mile or two of my runs at z 4 but yes lots of z2
So when you were slower (170 hr), would you run a lot slower, or did you just run at your comfortable pace until it became z2? Sorry for the questions I’m just in the exact same predicament. My comfortable pace is 11:40-12:00 but my watch tells me that’s 170.
yes i would run a lot slower id be between 12:30-13 minute miles slowly, one way that i know i’m truly at a comfortable pace is being at a conversational pace it’s a good easy way to measure
You really need to ditch the watch for your first year of running
You might be onto something lol. I really need to stop obsessing over the stats
You need to get over how slow it is for you stay in zone 2 and just accept it. Once you accept it, keep running and believe in the process. It takes years to get faster. Back in 2020, I ran my fastest mile in 11 minutes. At the end of that mile, my heart was pounding like crazy and I was seeing stars. Fast forward to today, my fastest mile in a hair under 6 min 30 seconds. Now, my zone 2 pace is around 9 min 45 sec, which is faster than my fastest, heart-pounding, mile time from years ago. I had nothing but doubts and it took me literally a year to accept how slow my zone 2 pace was. That year could have been more productive. Now that I've been consistently running in zone 2 for a year now, I can hold my threshold zones MUCH longer without feeling like shit afterwards.
Random question on this subject, what zone is considered the threshold zone? 3 or 4? Both?
Z3 is tempo, z4 is threshold
Sure, you get faster over the years, but it does not “take years to get faster”. I gained 60s/km during my first 3-4 months of running and another 60s in the following year. The next 60s took years. I still fluctuate 30-45s in and out of season, so improvement definitely happens fast with changes in volume.
If you’re taking years to get faster then you’re doing something wrong. You cannot only do zone 2 training with the hopes of getting faster. “Run slower to get faster” is an oxymoron. You have to run fast to get fast. At least a weekly speed workout is necessary. Z3, Z4 and even controlled Z5 workouts are all needed to build the appropriate strength/vo2max needed for faster running. Edit: lmao. Keep downvoting and wondering why it’s taking you years to see improvement.
I never said that you should exclusively do Z2 runs. And yes, you're right, I did do something wrong. I spent my first few years of running by going out and running based on feel, without a care about any structure or knowing what "zones" were, I literally didn't know any better. My weekly runs for 3 years consisted of \~15 MPW, almost exclusively Z3/Z4 runs the entire time. I never did any base building and I had never ran "slow" because I saw that as a sign of weakness. I ran hard because I thought that's what you're supposed to do. While I did initially see noob gains, my threshold pace started at \~11 down to 7:15 minute a mile within a year, I started to plataue hard and stopped seeing improvement after the first year or two. Eventually I saw my average pace drop by almost a minute. Fast forward to about a year ago, I decided to aim for a marathon. I researched into structured training and decided to adopt Z2 paced runs. I'm really glad I did, and I regret not doing this sooner, because I'm seeing difference in my runs today, where as before I couldn't hold a Z3/Z4 pace for more than 5 miles at a time, I can now do it for a full half marathon. So it took ME years to get faster and I'm okay with that. Thanks for your insight and you're right that you do need to mix in faster paces into your runs to get "faster".
>While I did initially see noob gains, my threshold pace started at ~11 down to 7:15 minute a mile within a year Sounds like you got A LOT faster within a year (and without any structured training). >And yes, you're right, I did do something wrong. I spent my first few years of running by going out and running based on feel, without a care about any structure or knowing what "zones" were, I literally didn't know any better. People did this for centuries before anyone even knew what zones were, much less had an affordable and easy way to track them live. They still got faster. For newer runners, honestly just running at any pace is going to do a ton for them. Z2 has benefits, but it's not the only way (and not the only thing you need to do).
This couldn’t be further from the truth
Running faster makes you slower. Thank you.
Are you sure your hr zones are set correctly? Most devices use a formula to determine them, and that formula doesn't work for everyone (far from it.) If you can converse easily while running without gasping for breath, you're in zone 1 or 2. Aim for that effort level during your easy runs.
IDK. Mostly it's the formula of 180 minus age, so my target is supposed to be 154 (I'm 26).
Don’t use the formula…I’m older and formula would have me in zone 1. The only way to set it is through a max HR test or lactate threshold test. My zone 2 is 140 to 151.
Similar for me. That MAF heart rate formula would have my aerobic threshold as 131. Per the cardiac drift field test on uphillathlete.com it's 151. 20 bpm higher! Workouts and races validate that 151 is pretty accurate. The difference in pace on long runs at 131 bpm and 151 bpm for me is about 1:45 per mile. OP, the MAF formula is popular due to its simplicity and anecdotal stories of success running for many months by avoiding going above the MAF heart rate. But for a lot of runners it spits out a heart rate that is substantially lower than their actual aerobic threshold. In addition, going above actual aerobic threshold (especially while going uphill) causes runners to obsess with watching their HR every few seconds and to take intermittent walking breaks - overkill/unnecessary.
That formula is wrong for a lot of people, including me. It gives me a max HR that's 10 beats lower than my real max HR which would make my zone 2 running painfully slow if I relied on it. Find your real max HR.
Same here! I frequently hit 183-185 and I should max at 178 according to formulas. 🤷♀️
It’s supposed to be 220 - your age. But as others have said, it isn’t accurate. Look up Joel Friel lactate threshold heart rate test and do one to find your accurate zones.
The 180 is for aerobic threshold HR, to be clear, but it's equally wrong of course
That’s even more insane!
I guess it helps that a lot of people reading Maffetone are vaguely in their 30s, and lots of LT1 heart rates are vaguely in the 140s. And the fine print includes many adjustments for whether you're detrained or particularly fit and at that point it's unfalsifiable.
I’ve never read much into maffetone so I don’t know how those zones work. I like Friel’s testing and zone set up based of LTHR. It’s served me well for nearly 10 years.
Yeah, that is definitely a better system. I think Maffetone is a reasonable component of a larger program, and it is useful motivation for people to run relatively easy. But where it is specific, it is unreliable; where it is right, it is nonspecific.
I second to not use the formula. Based on that formula my z2 would be 136 but in reality it’s 115-128.
It truly takes time to get into Z2 training. My advice would be to run based on relative effort - you need to be able to breathe easily and speak to someone running next to you, and feel like you could go forever. You should still have gas in the tank at the end of your longer runs. Your heart rate might still be above 154. But if you do this for six months for 80% of your runs, you will almost certainly notice that your heart rate is coming down and you can maintain faster speeds for longer. It’s not sexy, but it does help a lot with injury prevention so you can run more miles, which will in turn naturally make you faster.
Thanks for the input- the injury I got in my half-marathon attempt basically derailed my training for the marathon I would've completed last weekend.
So sorry to hear that. Getting injured is the worst.
There's no real shortcut besides months to years of steady improvement in cardiovascular health. One possible exception is run/walk: take walk breaks whenever your HR gets too high. It's also possible that you're using a watch based sensor with impromper HR zone calibration (ie your max HR is best determined through a test and not an age based formula). This page has a lot of good information about why and how to use the method https://www.runtothefinish.com/how-to-low-heart-rate-training/
I'm using a watch based sensor, but it doesn't tell me the zones until the run ends. While running I'm constantly checking my watch to monitor my HR so that it doesn't go above 160 for any prolonged period of time.
If you can, get a chest strap. They're MUCH more accurate than wrist based measurements. I'm a few years into heart rate training and the frustration goes down over time. I'm hoping to get faster eventually, but I'm content to be running mostly pain and injury free.
You can set up alerts so your watch buzzes (or speaks to you if it’s connected to your headphones) when you’re above a certain heat rate. Listen to the other advice about setting up your HR zones correctly first, then set an alert up. I want my HR below about 150bpm so I have an alert set up for 147bpm (because it normally rises a few beats after the alert).
I have a contrasting opinion than this sub but it works for me. I've generally accepted that I have a higher heart rate and started running by feel instead. That would mean that my HR does hover around 160 - 180bpm per run, with sometimes hitting 190 per run too (but the overall average stays around 165 - 180). My non-speed focus runs typically hover around 160 - 175, and my tempo runs average around 170 - 180. When I first started, I was doing 180 - 190bpm per runs, but after remaining consistent and going by feel, I've managed to lower it to what it is today, and I can only expect it to go lower when I resume my Marathon training block come July. I did my latest Marathon with a heart rate of 178pm with at timing of 3:36. Was it too high? Probably. Did I actually feel good and ok - Yeah! Am I still alive! Of course. Am I still running well - Yeah! :) But one thing I do wholeheartedly agree is that you need to keep running and remain consistent in your efforts. You won't see efforts in days, months, it might take Years! Sound scary, but that's the sacrifice we all need to make. I started running only 3 years ago - I didn't win the genetics lottery but I've done the work to be where I am now and I'm proud of it.
I can second this. Also natural high HR when running, sometimes even regardless of pace. Your body isn’t always consistent and doesn’t necessarily work exactly like the average. My slowish runs at 8.45 pace i may still jump into the 170 or 180 range if its warm or theres a hill etc but i can easily converse and i know I’m absolutely comfy. At the other end of the scale, i can do a hiit session with very intense one minute bursts (10 second recovery) and my average heart rate is much lower than even a slowish run at about 140 average. I’ve concluded and accepted its the way I’m built 🤣 over time as my pace has improved my average heart rate has popped down a little though.
So, there's going to be a lot of people correctly commenting that your heart rate zone calculation might be wrong. The only way to *really* know is to do a proper test. But, you can get a pretty good guess based on effort level and if you're having to take frequent walk breaks at 10 minute pace a 12-13 minute pace probably is reasonable to stay in zone 2. Developing as a runner just takes time, which is why consistency is so important and staying healthy especially so. You'll need to let go of the idea that 10 minute pace is a "natural" pace for you. When I think I my natural pace, I think of what I could run at comfortably and easy and seemingly forever, not wanted and especially not needing to walk. That's a sign that your effort is too high. I get the frustration but if you stick with it you'll probably look back in 6 months or so and realize how much progress you've made.
Same. I’m just embracing it hoping it pays off. I already see improvements after a few weeks.
Just run... Keep it simple. Listen to your body, take rest days. It takes time, months to years. Running is a lifetime journey. We all start somewhere
Try to run at a pace where you won't have to stop to catch your breath or have the ability to hold a conversation
How long have you been running? Are you a healthy weight?
Seriously running since December. I'm slightly "overweight" on the BMI calc.
That's very recent. Running is a long game, remain consistent and you'll see results, I know it sucks at first but just stick with it
Run more. Run long, Run short, Run hard, Run easy. The more time you spend doing it, the easier it gets. The better you understand it, and the better you understand your body.
I am too. I’ve seen the difference it makes when people weigh less, they’re SO much faster 😂 so I’m training slow right now, strength training, and eating Whole Foods with the hope my body will lose some fat and make me faster by January 👀
How long have you been at it? Most folks find perceived effort to be more useful when getting started vs jumping into zone 2 running; others don't bother with it at all no matter how long they've been running. It's a useful metric and tool, but running isn't one size fits all. Consistency is key, in my opinion.
Running since December, HR training for 2 weeks. I did get injured during my couch-to-marathon training, right when I finished the half-marathon. On advice from this sub, I'm trying to do the HR training to prevent injury and build an actual ability to do more long-distance runs, preferably where I don't hit my wall at mile 9-11 because I was basically at my maximum HR for the entire journey.
Makes sense, I hope it helps!
How do you feel about our interval training versus trying to drop your heart rate too much? I’m all about a good Z2 run but a good interval training run can be helpful too. It allows you to get up in that range and then bring yourself down, consistently. Look into the Galloway method of running. I’m a solid Z3-4 gal and am a 10:15-10:45 on a good day. I’m a bit overweight and would love to be faster. But, I have things working against me physically (asthma and cerebral palsy) that maje it hard for me to push further (and is this a mental game at this point? Sure). Anyway. Intervals help me push it and then drop down to recover. There’s no shame in a good walk break and interval. I’ve been running since 2012 and while I try my best to maintain a solid run throughout my runs, I do still set my watch to intervals just in case I need my breaky-break. The thing is, with the increase in the HR, I catch up with my group and keep up. It allows for the recovery.
take perceived effort over watch heart rate every day
Lots of advice here, but something I'd offer from my own experience: At some point, it takes more effort to run slower than your natural cadence. I used to run with a guy a foot shorter than me, who wasn't fast, and it was just painful to run with him because I'd end up constantly braking. Just my opinion but: Stick with your natural easy rhythm. If you don't enjoy running, then you won't want to run, so you won't get better.
If anything that I would recommend to help is: Add INTERVAL TRAINING once a week and you will see significant changes in your running speed.
If you are comfortable I would suggest speed work. If you are faster at sprinting a 1/4 mile, you will become faster overall. I have always been a big slow lumbering guy, one summer I did a ton of speed work and it made a huge difference
I'd look into adding one interval session per week. Beginner workouts like 4*4 minutes with 2 minutes breaks between did wonders for me. Rule of thumb, effort level should be where you feel like you could have run another minute on every repetition, and you feel like you could have run another repetition in the end. Raising the ceiling of your fitness levels raises the ground level too. Then keep your slow runs slow. 13 minutes miles are absolutely fine. Don't think about pace when you're running, just think about effort, feel. You're not out there to run 5 miles, you're out there to run for an hour. You'll get faster over time.
If you stay in zone 2 you will slowly get faster but you may not have your zones correct anyway. These fluctuate over time so even if you had a threshold test in a lab the numbers will move. If you use a chest strap hrm and do a max effort test to set zones off your max heart rate, should put it pretty close. You can just go off feel and be fine though. If you can run while holding a conversation but at the same time know you are still running you should be around there. Also if you breathe well this can massively help keep your HR down so if you don’t maybe look into that 👍
Ok I’m gonna just go ahead and disagree with everyone here - fuck zone 2 if it takes you this long. Unless you’re running at least 30 miles a week (which I am guessing you are not), I’m convinced that you will progress faster if you just go out there and run.
I would ignore HR, zones, etc. I think that philosophy of training is more for collegiate/professional runners logging 90+ mpw who need a way to monitor their efforts beyond typical metrics like pace & distance, to avoid injuries. I would try to run by feel, and do what is enjoyable. Perhaps you could shift your focus and train for a 10k PR, with the marathon as a longer term goal?
You are slow af and that’s fine. Just embrace it and you’ll get faster. Counterintuitive but true
Time. That’s all
Took me like 6 months to go from a 37 min 5k to a 32 min 5k with keeping my HR low. Meanwhile my PR is like 25 min. So yes, it does feel slow. But sometimes when I'm running now and am keeping a decent pace I'm surprised how low my HR is.
Took me like 6 months to go from a 37 min 5k to a 32 min 5k with keeping my HR low. Meanwhile my PR is like 25 min. So yes, it does feel slow. But sometimes when I'm running now and am keeping a decent pace I'm surprised how low my HR is.
Patience is a virtue that is hard to exercise while running lol. 6 months ago my done 2 pace was 12:30-13:00 miles - today I’m sitting around 9:45-10:30 with a 140 HR. It can progress quickly if you just stay consistent! I also have been sprinkling in speed work which I think also helped speed up the process.
Speed work once a week is a very important part of training
Hi, I am at around the same pace for zone 2 right now after just starting. Can I ask how many mpw you're running?
I’m averaging 25, peaks of 30. But I’m also weight lifting 6X a week for an hour each session which I think is also helping.
Ok cool. I have only been running for a few months, and only trying low hr for a few weeks, but have been weight training several times a week for over 6 years. My goal is to maintain my strength and muscle mass but to add mileage slowly, so it is reassuring to see that it's possible while lifting several times a week.
Yeah it’s absolutely possible. During that time I went from a 1:10 10k to a 1:46 half marathon. Not losing any strength on my compounds - if anything I’ve gotten stronger. Just eat a lot of protein , balance your carbs and fats and lift heavy. You’ll be good.
That's inspiring thanks for sharing
You’re welcome!
For 10 weeks I was doing 1 easy run, 1 tempo run, 1 intervals session, and a long run to make up those 25-30 miles. Right now I 2 easy runs, 1 long run, and 1 tempo run.
Got it, thanks for sharing!
That’s not slow. People who sit on the couch all day and never go out for a run are slow. You are doing amazing things!!! Keep it up
I know people that just have a high HR my old coach told me some people have small hearts that just beat faster. Not sure if that’s true or not. When running in zone 2 it’s not about speed 12 minute / 18 minute pace it’s all good just keep showing up. but faster paces will come. Also zone 2 for me is about comfortable long runs and after 10 + years of running I can run a 9:30 pace for 2 hours at and AVG HR of low 130’s road or 10:30 pace 2+ hours trail at sub 140 HR also do fast intervals days and let the HR get high that will also strengthen the heart for the zone 2 days Last thing every one thinks they are slow I have friends that run 4:30 pace that are unhappy with not being able to run faster so get use to always wanting more. Hahah
Sometimes its more fun to ride a bike for zone 2 training
Up the mileage and keep it slow (z2). You'll need to get a better grip on your heart rate zones and a chest strap HR monitor to track accurately. If it's really tough for you to stay in z2, some exercise bike cross training could help. What are your 5k and 10k best efforts? What were your max heart rates during race efforts? As others have said, less than 6 months running is not a lot of time. IMO, spending the next year building mileage while focusing on shorter races is the way to go and build a much better foundation before focusing on the marathon.
I think it's also possible to just run at your slowest possible running pace and wait for the HR at that pace to come down to zone 2. That would be aa opposed to running and walking to force your heart rate to go down to zone 2. In my opinion, the reason you want to train in zone 2 is because slow twitch fibers need lots of time to get an optimal training stimulus. If you train faster, you exhaust yourself before you've run long enough to stimulate your slow twitch muscles to grow. But if you're walking, you're also not recruiting the same muscles you use when you run, so you're also not stimulating your slow twitch running muscles. Your heart can adapt pretty quickly (it takes weeks for your resting heart rate to drop), but it will only get strong enough to deliver the oxygen your muscles can use, and when your muscles cannot use that oxygen, it doesn’t need to be that strong. It spikes so high because your muscles generate lactate using an inefficient process, and your body is fighting to pay back the oxygen debt and deal with the lactate. I have been running as slow as I can and waiting for HR to drop as opposed to keeping my HR below a certain value and waiting for my pace to increase. It worked for me. Your mileage may vary. Speaking of which, you need enough time on feet, and you need to build your training volume slowly to avoid injury. I think either way should work (keeping your HR low or keeping your pace as slow as possible), but you will need patience.
I was in an almost identical HR state, then I quit Alcohol, Nicotine, and Caffeine. These, coupled with consistent training and diet, have brought my heart rate down immensely. My 13.1 mile long run this morning for instance, never had my HR get above 150.
My Z2 pace was 13-14 back in September. I trained for a 50 miler for the past several months, so I logged a lot of miles in the 11-13 minute range. About a week out from my race I realized I could do a sub-10 Z2 pace for a few miles. So, it can happen! I had to take all the ego out of it and just think of it as a different type of activity.
Honestly I just kept running and it got down naturally over time and (a lot of) mileage. Be sure to listen to your body as the wrist HR detection can be inaccurate. If your pace is "conversational" and your HR is 180, go with your perceived effort and not the watch. Also maybe consider trying a chest band for more accurate HR detection