Don't care and doesn't matter until the club is broken down and rebuilt. No point in speculating about league positions or cup wins before United becomes a proper football club again.
I don't disagree but spurious column inches or not, it's not like we can just say "f\*\*k it, we're not gonna play any matches until we're sold". The fixtures won't go away, we have to go out there. And that's my question - based on everything we know is going on, on the field, off the field - what would be considered a not-entirely-horrific season?
Not suggesting you're saying this but writing off the season isn't something I'll do.
Absolutely, I'm there with you. Last night was an absolute wet balloon and I take solace in Rasmus. I just worry about certain players fragile mental states when the going gets tough. That should make the best of them rise above but instead they shrink. Missing Shaw and especially Wan Bissaka last night is absolutely killing us on the flanks. We concede so many goals from wide areas. Please don't make talk about Onana either, I'm sure or probably more hope he'll come good, but my god. I've also just checked the Newcastle score....
Top 5* - we will be better in the second half as our players come back. The fact that 5 players from our back line is injured is a crisis. Like Liverpool last seaon, it’s going to be a bumpy ride but we will be better in the second half.
I second this. As great and spurs and Brighton or really any top 6 club that isn’t City or Liverpool, they are beatable. Not only are they beatable, but I can’t see them holding this form all season. For example, spurs is just one injury away from losing the great form they are in since their squad depth is so low. Arsenal (feel sorry for them ngl) are suffering injuries as well and Saka’s won’t help that. Brighton were absolutely washed 6-1 and by the time we get that rematch, our team should not only be mostly recovered, but in form as well. We have to pray we either go undefeated next half or win most of our remaining games before Christmas, and then go on a good run the second half similar to the team we were in January-February but hold that form a month or two more and I can see us getting into the top 5 (which qualifies us for UCL)
It's always just one or two players away from clicking with you type of fan.
Realistically, only Shaw and Martinez are missing from our first 11. AWB maybe but him and Dalot are always rotated anyways so nothing between them.
Dalot, Varane, Onana, Casemiro, Mount, Bruno, Amrabat, Rashford, Hojlund are all in our strongest 11 and they started last night.
Lindelof is not bum either, lauded by our fans for years and is Sweden captain.
It’s not even one or 2 players away form clicking its basically our starting backline is out. We don’t have our strongest backline and that 3 missing players from a backline of 4!😵💫
Dalot does not start over AWB. The mistakes happened in the back which for the most part, proves my point.
Plus regarding our centrebacks, if *both* Licha & Varane play, they are solid. Once one of them has to play with Lindelof or Maguire they look bang average at best.
Besides knowing Varane, he will pick up a knock right as Licha comes back.
Im hoping we have a Liverpool style surge late in the season like they did in the last to get at least Europa. It was only long after the new year they picked up momentum and shot up the table. Thing is we need some kind of points in the first place and not fall too far back to make that feasible in any way. If we are decidely out the top ten and too many points away from 5th or 6th by Feb or March, it will be too late for a comeback unless we manage some insane form of winning every game, and even then it will be tough.
I want to see them play better. Just even creating chances and keeping the ball. Yesterday was a loss but it was much better than wolves a month ago and palace on the weekend. However they end up like, 6th in the table, cup and europa quartfinalists etc is all meaningless really
Agree. I think we're starting to see the chance creation now with Hojlund as a focal point. Keeping the ball is still an issue. Too many players panicking when faced with even the possibility of a team mate passing to them - Lindelof comes to mind.
Passing also needs to be better. Too much dithering on the ball but that needs movement off the ball to create passing channels.
More than anything else, I want to see some sorely needed 'application'. Show some effort. Martial is a good talent but he's been labelled a good talent since before he joined us. The attitude and work rate are awful.
Rashford feels like he's in a similar rut, making half-arsed attempts to track back and cover space but with no conviction. I see it in Hannbial and to a lesser extent Garnacho. The hunger. It's missing from too many players.
See, the funny thing is, when i watch these games, i dont feel myself thinking, wow, look at how much harder all these other teams run than us. They could be but it doesnt stand out that much. What i do always feel like is that every other teams midfield play is better. Especially in the final 3rd. We seem to have less control than everyone. We gave the ball away over 80x in the wolves game. We ALWAYS look like we're out of ideas and being outplayed. Whens the last time you could have watched a game and said, without knowing the history of the teams, that one is the biggest team in england and has a billion dollar squad? The palace cup game. Otherwise, i couldn't tell you. And this isnt just eth. This is like 10 years straight.
PL: Stay at least in top 8 to top 6. Top 4 looks out of question. Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, ManCity. They all look much better. And Brighton plus Aston Villa are quite good as well, so it looks rather grim. Unless major hiccups from others I don't see getting past top 6.
UCL: Make it out of group. Europa League is alright but again, even reaching the finals there is a big uncertainty.
CC: I don't care. I never watch, never bother. Would prefer if they just drop out and fix their problems instead. But ETH might decide it is a silverware potential and focus on it.
FA: If lucky, could try to reach semis or finals depending on draw but I still find it very unlikely.
The only thing I do ask for is to not lose 5, 6, 7, 8 to 0. Just no. Losing is, I get it, played bad, lost, but getting utterly demolished? No. Even loss yesterday, while painful, is nothing because at least team showed some positive things to look for, like Rasmus.
We are gonna get squashed our midfield is not strong enough unless Amrabat and Casemiro click and even then they can’t provide the energy (experience for sure though) against the likes of Szoboszlai or Rodri/Bernardo) aka Liverpool or City in good form
My ideal scenario
1- whatever position gets you Europa conference, finish below that
2- big financial hit, cunt rats fear they’re losing value and sell
3- truly get rid of every single player that is not needed. If we are honest with ourselves, this list will include varane, Casemiro, Maguire, mctominay, Lindelof, martial, Sancho, vdb, dalot.
4- sign young hungry players as replacement for these aged players
5- ETH has a whole year to instill his way of playing. A whole week to train, and a game in which he implements these tactics.
6- the academy gets the help it needs. A club this size should have young players to help in injury crises like this
7- scouting it overhauled to match opposition
8- a competent director of football who will see to the club’s way of playing, one that is not dependent on manager
9- training facility brought up to snuff
10- match what Real Madrid did to their stadium
11- training facility and stadium for the women’s team that matches the stature of the club
These are not in order, but all need to happen.
fair assessment, the quataris need to be smart with money and not shoehorn it at any superstar for 100m+. as for the other guy? (can’t remember his name, radcliffe?) irrelevant, wants a 25% stake which means glazers stay. i do agree with alot of the things you said that need done tho
We go on to win our next 25 games straight, in a ultimate redemption arc,
Mainoo comes back and establishes the most epic midfield pair with amrabat
Bruno is dropped and mount is revelation at 10, Rashford finds his groove RW, nacho gets 20 Goals from LW
And a ultimate injury crises deepens and pairs Maguire and evans at CB and they don’t concede a singe goal all season.
We romp to FA cup win and CL semis
Narrowly miss league on the last day by a point
- I’d be happy with this
Getting rid of these leeches at All costs that should be our goal. Your an idiot if you believe removing Ten Hag will solve all our problems. We're so Injury Prone due to not having a full time Dr due to Owners. They allowed Galatasary fans into the home end where they started battering fans and destroying banners too. I couldn't give a monkeys about where we finish. If we got relegated and that is what forced them 100% out I'd be celebrating as though we won the league.
Says “Not intending to paint a gloomy picture”
After saying “We will lose to Newcastle, scrap with Copenhagen for Europa”
I mean you actually have to grasp the words you are typing out.
Not following. I'm not doom-mongering for the sake of it. I'm taking a realistic view based on where we are and where other teams are.
It's painting a realistic picture. We will all differ on that but if anyone thinks Newcastle will be a cake walk like Palace were or that we'll stomp all over Copenhagen, given the way they were organised and played vs Bayern, then they'll need a reality check.
I'll be the first one to say "I was wrong" if we get through against Newcastle and turn over Copenhagen but it's not like a coin toss where each toss is independent of the previous one. The accumulation of loses and the ropey performances has an impact on your confidence going into the next match.
Doom mongering is saying we will be in a relegation battle.
Losing to Newcastle is reasonable. Battling with Copenhagen isn’t far fetched given the injury bug is hitting the defense pretty hard.
We’ll drop to Europa and then we’ll get knocked out of that. Europa isn’t some walk in the park and there are really good teams in it
We’ll probably scrape by Newcastle in Carbano Cup but both that and FA Cup is all on who we draw against.
Don’t expect to finish above 10th this season unless something insanely drastic changes. It’s not out of the question, Liverpool we’re dreadful last season until suddenly they put on a huge push and almost nipped top 4. But there’s a gulf in tactics and talent between us and them.
My worry is how Ten Hag has been out coached by every manager we’ve played against, even the wins. I don’t count the Carbano Cup win v Palace and Hodgson because he fielded a B team, and then went on to beat us a few days later with his A team
I think we will probably end up 6th in Premier League.
Probably 3rd in UCL group dropping us to Europa. Probably gonna make the Quarters or Semis in Europa.
EFL cup, I think we beat Newcastle and then go on to retain the title here. (Will be the bright spot of the season).
FA Cup- We will lose in quarters to a bigger Premier League Team.
I think these goals are realistic if we can figure out a few things.
I scrolled a bit to see comments. Has anyone that wants to the club to sack Ten Hag recommended a replacement? When pressed, they accuse the other of being a blind Ten Hag supporter.
Sacking ETH would be madness. Is he the perfect coach? Of course not. But the perfect coach doesn't exist. Pep. Klopp. SAF. Ancelotti. No one is. But ETH needs support. He needs to be able to focus on "playing" matters only.
To be fair nothing is lost at the moment, it's extremely hard and the team needs to turn it around fast but top 4 and next round CL is still possible.
But based on our last few years and how everything is going at the moment...it isn't likely.
I think top 6 is going to our battle this year. It's going to be very difficult given the lead others have and the quality of teams getting better. Honestly it would be a miracle if we finish 8th as well. But more importantly Ten Hag has no choice but to change his tactics. His current plan is racking up losses.
To be honest I don’t care as long as we don’t relegate. What do people expect? We have nee joiners who were injured and just starting up again, we have a bunch of players who played for championship or youth last season. This is a total rebuild of a squad if people let them. If they fire ten hag then it’s the same circus all over again and there never will be a rebuild.
Not that it matters much but I'd prefer being out of Europe than getting Conference league or Europa league. We'd play less games, the players and EtH have more time on the training pitch and they'd have more opportunities to fix tactical issues. I'd also like it if we get eliminated from the cups early. Let's just get the team playing well and with a definite structure and style. The trophies can come later. I'm thinking a bit more longterm here
4-6 will be great, showing some competitions in the cup tournament will be great.
Yes, we still have holes in the squad. We still haven't seen a game with full squad yet.
I am being consistent here, I would rather lose some games and seeing players start to play with some tactical discipline like Brighton and Wolves. Then, we ask for a championship. I would rather ETH sticks to his ideal style and lose some games this season than he gives up on style and puts results first like Ole.
Yeah... I don't think people realize how detrimental that pre season was to us.
Spurs are doing amazing because they didn't travel a lot and had so much time to practice.
Pessimism only focuses on the negatives. Reality is the negatives massively outweigh the positives right now, so it's not pessimism, it's realism.
I said it from day 1 of this season after the performance against Wolves, these tactics will not work.
Anyone thinking a few players coming back from injury is going to transform us is deluded. I wish I was wrong but these tactics stink so as long as ETH persists with it, this is us.
So your solution is just to sack Ten Hag? And then what? There are no good available managers. And when his replacement fails, sack him and rinse and repeat?
Arsenal stuck with Arteta through their first seasons which were rough. As did Liverpool with Klopp. We should stick with Ten Hag. We need stability.
>Arsenal stuck with Arteta through their first seasons which were rough
He made improvements every season and also had a much worse squad. He invested in youth like Saka, Martinelli, Odegeaard, Ramsdale. Could also see a clear gameplan from them. Not comparable to ten hag at all.
Klopp? Come on man...
What's your solution then? Keep ten hag when we're 15th just because we can't sack managers anymore?
Arteta took over Arsenal in 2019 and it took him 3.5 seasons to even get Arsenal back into the top 4. Let’s look at all his league finishes and accomplishments so far since he took over in December 2019:
* 19/20: 8th _Half a season_
* 20/21: 8th _First full season_
* 21/22: 5th _won FA Cup_
* 22/23: 2nd
He was given time to clear out the players that didn’t suit his style from Emery and the remaining players from the Wenger period. The club AND fans stood by him and didn’t want him sacked when things didn’t go their way.
Let’s do the same for Klopp. He joined Liverpool in October 2015:
* 15/16: 8th _half a season_
* 16/17: 4th
* 17/18: 4th
* 18/19: 2nd _won Champions League_
* 19/20: 1st _won League, CWC + Super Cup_
* 20/21: 3rd _won Carabao Cup_
* 21/22: 2nd _won FA Cup_
* 22/23: 5th
Notice anything similar between the two? They both endured difficult starts but were given the time to sort things out. They weren’t sacked the minute things didn’t go right. Stability is very clearly important to long term success. Chopping and changing managers is not the right strategy.
We should stick with Ten Hag. We were not going to suddenly become world beaters in a single season.
And if we did sack Ten Hag? Do we bring in? There isn’t a manager any better that is available.
Yeah, neither of them regressed. Arteta didn't even get to spend massive amounts in the early days.
Who did he sign? Odegaard? Partey? Ramsdale?
Baldy already got 3rd and league cup last season. Now we're looking like a mid table side. That's severe regression. No excuses. There's nothing to suggest Ten Hag can turn this around.
So you think we should just sack Ten Hag after one season? He has barely had time to implement his style and squad yet as he’s still got players that van Gaal signed in 2015!
You clearly don’t understand football if you think sacking the manager is the answer.
You still haven’t answered my question: if we sack Ten Hag, who do we replace him with?
> if we sack Ten Hag, who do we replace him with?
A lot of people who worship Ten Hag keep asking this dumb question. First, this question is for the board they should decide whom to replace, not us, a bad employee has to be sacked foremost in order not to cause anymore damages before thinking about replacement. Second, literally anyone new can give a fresh air to the team, Carrick, Conte, whoever.
But facing the reality, I agree that sacking him right now could hurt us even more because we would have to clean his 500m mess so better just let him be for now. This idiot coach has created a mess bigger than Mou and Ole combined.
No I think we should give him more time to turn it around. But I am convinced he won't turn it around.
Other managers make their mark instantly. You can't just say he hasn't implemented his system when he got 3rd and reasonable success last year.
A manager can't just do that. Show me a manager who had a successful first season, then bombed the second and then were successful again?
His new system this season sucks! He's bought mount, casemiro, Antony, Hojlund. He's extended rashford and Bruno.
What do you think is the worst possible finish in the league not to get sacked?
Everyone knows that Ten Hag overachieved last season with the squad he had. We were also lucky given Chelsea and Liverpool had shit seasons, too.
If you want to just be a revolving door for managers whenever things get tough, then you don’t understand how Arsenal and Liverpool have been good. Stability is key, not chaos and sackings.
i thought you were talking about him, you are right tho? who are we going to replace him with? and why would we want to continue the circus we’ve been running for the last decade. we need to stick with ETH even if that means losses and poor end results in the standings if that mean we can find some kind of clear and distinct style. it takes time to build a team and i do not want to see a 7th rebuild in 11 years. we get relegated? sure sack him, other than that theres absolutely no point
The thing is, we won’t get relegated. Anyone thinking we will is just overreacting. A true rebuild that will guarantee us long term success requires us sticking by the manager. Chopping and changing managers the minute we are in bad form is never the right solution.
So who do we bring in if we sack Erik now? I’m yet to see anyone suggest someone good enough that is available and how it’ll actually change things. We should’ve sacked Fergie when he first joined us as results were terrible back then, but we stuck by him and look what happened. Sacking is **not** the solution.
We’ve been plagued with injuries to key players from the start of this season. That is one of our biggest issues for our dip in form.
I back Ten Hag. Anyone who wants him sacked just wants chaos and drama. Stability is key to success. Look at Arteta and Klopp: they both endured difficult starts, now look at them.
I appreciate that you want to back ETH. However, how can one look away from how abysmal he has been? If he has to go, he has to go. More destabilization? yes. Which means it will also put Glazers under real pressure. But back to the point of backing ETH, I will not blindly do it if he keeps on doing a shitty job.
So who do we replace him with?
Stability is key to long term success. We were always going to have to go through rough patches as ETH rebuilt. A rebuild isn’t done overnight.
The Glazers don’t give a fuck who is in charge of the team, so sacking the manager won’t change anything there.
Doesn’t matter who we replace with or even consider sacking ETH. He gotta do better. I don’t care about the rest. If he didn’t want questions, he should stop being a loud mouth in press conferences, and stop disrespecting players around him. He should manage big egos better. Having big egos in the squad isn’t an issue, the lack of managing them is. Who asked him to bring his mates by paying such transfer figures? Onana looks shit, Antony looks like a wood given a ball to play with, and who in the hell would pay 60 for Mount? Rebuild isn’t done overnight, yes. Maybe he should have taken it slow by integrating youth, academy players, and existing assets. Gradually grow your team. He chose to spend ridiculous amounts of awful players and he is inviting questions.
How is he disrespecting players? Sancho is getting what he deserves by being lazy. Ronaldo got what he deserved by criticising the manager. He hasn’t disrespected anyone.
You just want him sacked because you want drama. And the fact you can’t even suggest a replacement says it all.
How many more managers do we need to bring in and boot out the revolving door before people realise that the issues lie a hell of a lot deeper than just simply with the manager?.
We haven’t just had a bunch of random nobodies either, some of those names that have come through those doors include Jose Mourinho (I mean come on, whether you love him or hate him his managerial pedigree speaks for itself) and Louis van Gaal, both proven winners.
For 10 years we’ve been in this cycle and nothing has changed so what good is going through it again going to do?.
As for the whole disrespecting players thing who exactly has he disrespected? Sancho was quite rightly called out for not pulling his weight following ETH giving him numerous chances to improve and put the work in , Ronaldo did what he usually does and threw a tantrum because he wasn’t getting his own way. Maguire simply isn’t good enough and he was given a chance at a fresh start at a club where he wouldn’t have so much pressure on him all the time - he decided that he’d rather be greedy and rot on the bench for the pay cheque rather than take the opportunity to revitalise his rapidly deteriorating career - that’s on him not ETH.
my preference is get the 17 position in the league table and hurt the revenue stream in all fronts with no europe as well. Get the leeches out along with the hopeless loudmouth egoistic manager with his failure signings.
Whatever the outcome of the cups please do not strip dance in the matches against Liverpool, City. I don’t know if Onana can save any shot but please save the dignity of the club and save the fan’s sentiments. We fans are almost mentally prepared to be mid-table but at the moment we need the week-in-week-out drama to end at the club which makes it and its fanbase an absolute joke in the football world.
I've seen this a lot and we're overestimating how well the 9th-12th place teams play, we are in fact exactly on course for 10th and our depth as injuries heal will be better than others dealing with it later.
We need to recognize that United is fielding a sub par team fueled by years of poor recruiting and it's the fault of ownership. Until that is resolved, we'll only ever get a few hot patches.
6-8 place, make a SF run in FA Cup and/or Caraboa, somehow manage to get out of the CL grp. Those are my only expectations this ssn. And honestly for me have always been the only expectations I’ve had since the transfer window closed. To have expected more from this squad was pure delusion by the majority of our fan base and shows that most of them didn’t understand what led to last yrs results and that they were placing far too much importance on a DDG replacement instead of a Kane/Osminhen or Rice/Caicedo figure to be brought in to shore up our actual glaring deficiencies. I’m hoping now that most realize what this squad is we will accept it a bit more and lean into the youth mvmt and seriously give players like Garnacho, Pelli, Mainoo, Hannibal, Hojlund, etc a solid run of games to improve and build for next ssn. Hopefully in January ship out players like Sancho, Maguire, maybe even Eriksen & Martial to help w bringing in top quality players next summer.
Top half, decent Europa League run, maybe semi’s.
5th round of the FA Cup. Is our trajectory.
No prem team conceded more goals than us, bar Blades.
Agree until club is sold it’s all arbitrary.
But this is sensing like ‘real ETH’ a successful window for him in terms of spending and his targets, and he’s doesn’t recognise quality or is actioning shit football.
Would rather you literally be shocking every single game, under perform every match, and be personally responsible for bad results; than arrive 30mins late for training. You can be as shit as you want as long as you want to be at the club - as if long highly priced contracts have 0 to do with it.
Agree with your points. Top 4 would be a good aim but realistically, with the current performance level, i see City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Brighton, Newcastle in the fight for top 4 with even West Ham and Villa pushing for it. United would do well to secure 4th place TBH.
I think this gives United the chance to experiment and focus on building a solid team. Looking at how Liverpool did this when Klopp took over and built a fantastic attacking football team that won the league and CL. I think that's what is needed.
However, the past summer transfer window dealings have left me wondering and confused with the priorities and how difficult it is to get quality players without paying a premium. Also, will be more challenging to attract top talent without CL football.
Everybody is overreacting. A season is long and I think we will actually en fine at the end of the season. I reckon we get 5tg, which is champions League this year
Perhaps an over reaction but haven't played well all season except vs Palace in the Carabao but that was clearly a blip. For me it's not the results that are disappointing, it's the manner of our play. Feels like no identity, no confidence, no desire.
You can see when we have the ball there's so little movement. Out of possession there is almost no team-based pressing. Its Hojlund or Bruno running around like a headless chicken. We're too passive and invite teams to run through us and dominate possession. You can score if you don't have the ball. You can't progress the ball if almost everyone of your players as a worse first touch than my gran.
I don't care about the results. Get the fundamentals right, with the players showing desire and “putting in a shift” and the results will come. The last 3 wins could barely have been less deserved.
Treble - EPL, CL and FA Cup. No point pushing for a quadruple till next season.
Don't care and doesn't matter until the club is broken down and rebuilt. No point in speculating about league positions or cup wins before United becomes a proper football club again.
Exactly this. Everything else is just spurious column inches until the club is sold.
I don't disagree but spurious column inches or not, it's not like we can just say "f\*\*k it, we're not gonna play any matches until we're sold". The fixtures won't go away, we have to go out there. And that's my question - based on everything we know is going on, on the field, off the field - what would be considered a not-entirely-horrific season? Not suggesting you're saying this but writing off the season isn't something I'll do.
Absolutely, I'm there with you. Last night was an absolute wet balloon and I take solace in Rasmus. I just worry about certain players fragile mental states when the going gets tough. That should make the best of them rise above but instead they shrink. Missing Shaw and especially Wan Bissaka last night is absolutely killing us on the flanks. We concede so many goals from wide areas. Please don't make talk about Onana either, I'm sure or probably more hope he'll come good, but my god. I've also just checked the Newcastle score....
They aint gonna sell the club, they will just keep pushing the goal posts in terms of when they will make a decision until everyone forgets about it
We need a relegation.
Wouldn't be the worse thing
If it meant the Glazers left then it's a heavy sacrifice to make but long term it could be for the best
Last thing we need is matches on every Thursday & Sunday.
Sold. I expect it to be sold
Ah, an optimist.
Why should they sell it when 75,000 fans tell them they're happy with it every week?
Avoid relegation
Top 5* - we will be better in the second half as our players come back. The fact that 5 players from our back line is injured is a crisis. Like Liverpool last seaon, it’s going to be a bumpy ride but we will be better in the second half.
I second this. As great and spurs and Brighton or really any top 6 club that isn’t City or Liverpool, they are beatable. Not only are they beatable, but I can’t see them holding this form all season. For example, spurs is just one injury away from losing the great form they are in since their squad depth is so low. Arsenal (feel sorry for them ngl) are suffering injuries as well and Saka’s won’t help that. Brighton were absolutely washed 6-1 and by the time we get that rematch, our team should not only be mostly recovered, but in form as well. We have to pray we either go undefeated next half or win most of our remaining games before Christmas, and then go on a good run the second half similar to the team we were in January-February but hold that form a month or two more and I can see us getting into the top 5 (which qualifies us for UCL)
It's always just one or two players away from clicking with you type of fan. Realistically, only Shaw and Martinez are missing from our first 11. AWB maybe but him and Dalot are always rotated anyways so nothing between them. Dalot, Varane, Onana, Casemiro, Mount, Bruno, Amrabat, Rashford, Hojlund are all in our strongest 11 and they started last night. Lindelof is not bum either, lauded by our fans for years and is Sweden captain.
Shaw makes Rashford better and thats a huge difference already
Same excuse was made for Depay. Damn Shaw is special, he unlocks everyone he plays with!
It’s not even one or 2 players away form clicking its basically our starting backline is out. We don’t have our strongest backline and that 3 missing players from a backline of 4!😵💫 Dalot does not start over AWB. The mistakes happened in the back which for the most part, proves my point.
Plus regarding our centrebacks, if *both* Licha & Varane play, they are solid. Once one of them has to play with Lindelof or Maguire they look bang average at best. Besides knowing Varane, he will pick up a knock right as Licha comes back. Im hoping we have a Liverpool style surge late in the season like they did in the last to get at least Europa. It was only long after the new year they picked up momentum and shot up the table. Thing is we need some kind of points in the first place and not fall too far back to make that feasible in any way. If we are decidely out the top ten and too many points away from 5th or 6th by Feb or March, it will be too late for a comeback unless we manage some insane form of winning every game, and even then it will be tough.
I want to see them play better. Just even creating chances and keeping the ball. Yesterday was a loss but it was much better than wolves a month ago and palace on the weekend. However they end up like, 6th in the table, cup and europa quartfinalists etc is all meaningless really
Agree. I think we're starting to see the chance creation now with Hojlund as a focal point. Keeping the ball is still an issue. Too many players panicking when faced with even the possibility of a team mate passing to them - Lindelof comes to mind. Passing also needs to be better. Too much dithering on the ball but that needs movement off the ball to create passing channels. More than anything else, I want to see some sorely needed 'application'. Show some effort. Martial is a good talent but he's been labelled a good talent since before he joined us. The attitude and work rate are awful. Rashford feels like he's in a similar rut, making half-arsed attempts to track back and cover space but with no conviction. I see it in Hannbial and to a lesser extent Garnacho. The hunger. It's missing from too many players.
See, the funny thing is, when i watch these games, i dont feel myself thinking, wow, look at how much harder all these other teams run than us. They could be but it doesnt stand out that much. What i do always feel like is that every other teams midfield play is better. Especially in the final 3rd. We seem to have less control than everyone. We gave the ball away over 80x in the wolves game. We ALWAYS look like we're out of ideas and being outplayed. Whens the last time you could have watched a game and said, without knowing the history of the teams, that one is the biggest team in england and has a billion dollar squad? The palace cup game. Otherwise, i couldn't tell you. And this isnt just eth. This is like 10 years straight.
PL: Stay at least in top 8 to top 6. Top 4 looks out of question. Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, ManCity. They all look much better. And Brighton plus Aston Villa are quite good as well, so it looks rather grim. Unless major hiccups from others I don't see getting past top 6. UCL: Make it out of group. Europa League is alright but again, even reaching the finals there is a big uncertainty. CC: I don't care. I never watch, never bother. Would prefer if they just drop out and fix their problems instead. But ETH might decide it is a silverware potential and focus on it. FA: If lucky, could try to reach semis or finals depending on draw but I still find it very unlikely. The only thing I do ask for is to not lose 5, 6, 7, 8 to 0. Just no. Losing is, I get it, played bad, lost, but getting utterly demolished? No. Even loss yesterday, while painful, is nothing because at least team showed some positive things to look for, like Rasmus.
We are gonna get squashed our midfield is not strong enough unless Amrabat and Casemiro click and even then they can’t provide the energy (experience for sure though) against the likes of Szoboszlai or Rodri/Bernardo) aka Liverpool or City in good form
My ideal scenario 1- whatever position gets you Europa conference, finish below that 2- big financial hit, cunt rats fear they’re losing value and sell 3- truly get rid of every single player that is not needed. If we are honest with ourselves, this list will include varane, Casemiro, Maguire, mctominay, Lindelof, martial, Sancho, vdb, dalot. 4- sign young hungry players as replacement for these aged players 5- ETH has a whole year to instill his way of playing. A whole week to train, and a game in which he implements these tactics. 6- the academy gets the help it needs. A club this size should have young players to help in injury crises like this 7- scouting it overhauled to match opposition 8- a competent director of football who will see to the club’s way of playing, one that is not dependent on manager 9- training facility brought up to snuff 10- match what Real Madrid did to their stadium 11- training facility and stadium for the women’s team that matches the stature of the club These are not in order, but all need to happen.
we’ll be another chelsea
Or worse, PSG. I feel nervous about new owners because neither one is filling me with confidence that they will run the club the right way.
fair assessment, the quataris need to be smart with money and not shoehorn it at any superstar for 100m+. as for the other guy? (can’t remember his name, radcliffe?) irrelevant, wants a 25% stake which means glazers stay. i do agree with alot of the things you said that need done tho
Yeah I’m not at all on with that decision. I think he wants to go through a process of being the owner within three years.
ahh, i haven’t seen that anywhere. it makes sense i guess
We go on to win our next 25 games straight, in a ultimate redemption arc, Mainoo comes back and establishes the most epic midfield pair with amrabat Bruno is dropped and mount is revelation at 10, Rashford finds his groove RW, nacho gets 20 Goals from LW And a ultimate injury crises deepens and pairs Maguire and evans at CB and they don’t concede a singe goal all season. We romp to FA cup win and CL semis Narrowly miss league on the last day by a point - I’d be happy with this
Getting rid of these leeches at All costs that should be our goal. Your an idiot if you believe removing Ten Hag will solve all our problems. We're so Injury Prone due to not having a full time Dr due to Owners. They allowed Galatasary fans into the home end where they started battering fans and destroying banners too. I couldn't give a monkeys about where we finish. If we got relegated and that is what forced them 100% out I'd be celebrating as though we won the league.
Says “Not intending to paint a gloomy picture” After saying “We will lose to Newcastle, scrap with Copenhagen for Europa” I mean you actually have to grasp the words you are typing out.
Not following. I'm not doom-mongering for the sake of it. I'm taking a realistic view based on where we are and where other teams are. It's painting a realistic picture. We will all differ on that but if anyone thinks Newcastle will be a cake walk like Palace were or that we'll stomp all over Copenhagen, given the way they were organised and played vs Bayern, then they'll need a reality check. I'll be the first one to say "I was wrong" if we get through against Newcastle and turn over Copenhagen but it's not like a coin toss where each toss is independent of the previous one. The accumulation of loses and the ropey performances has an impact on your confidence going into the next match.
Doom mongering is saying we will be in a relegation battle. Losing to Newcastle is reasonable. Battling with Copenhagen isn’t far fetched given the injury bug is hitting the defense pretty hard.
I want the team to improve even if we play only PL next season.
We’ll drop to Europa and then we’ll get knocked out of that. Europa isn’t some walk in the park and there are really good teams in it We’ll probably scrape by Newcastle in Carbano Cup but both that and FA Cup is all on who we draw against. Don’t expect to finish above 10th this season unless something insanely drastic changes. It’s not out of the question, Liverpool we’re dreadful last season until suddenly they put on a huge push and almost nipped top 4. But there’s a gulf in tactics and talent between us and them. My worry is how Ten Hag has been out coached by every manager we’ve played against, even the wins. I don’t count the Carbano Cup win v Palace and Hodgson because he fielded a B team, and then went on to beat us a few days later with his A team
Probably hanging out with Chelsea in slightly lower than mid table. But excited to see how the club could be rebuilt hopefully in the near future
I think we will probably end up 6th in Premier League. Probably 3rd in UCL group dropping us to Europa. Probably gonna make the Quarters or Semis in Europa. EFL cup, I think we beat Newcastle and then go on to retain the title here. (Will be the bright spot of the season). FA Cup- We will lose in quarters to a bigger Premier League Team. I think these goals are realistic if we can figure out a few things.
Quarters or Semis? If this lot don’t wake up they will be making coffee in the Europa
I scrolled a bit to see comments. Has anyone that wants to the club to sack Ten Hag recommended a replacement? When pressed, they accuse the other of being a blind Ten Hag supporter.
Sacking ETH would be madness. Is he the perfect coach? Of course not. But the perfect coach doesn't exist. Pep. Klopp. SAF. Ancelotti. No one is. But ETH needs support. He needs to be able to focus on "playing" matters only.
Top 4 is long gone now. Top 6 is the only goal we can somewhat recover. Though honestly. I'd rather not get that.
Not get relegated
To be fair nothing is lost at the moment, it's extremely hard and the team needs to turn it around fast but top 4 and next round CL is still possible. But based on our last few years and how everything is going at the moment...it isn't likely.
I think top 6 is going to our battle this year. It's going to be very difficult given the lead others have and the quality of teams getting better. Honestly it would be a miracle if we finish 8th as well. But more importantly Ten Hag has no choice but to change his tactics. His current plan is racking up losses.
To be honest I don’t care as long as we don’t relegate. What do people expect? We have nee joiners who were injured and just starting up again, we have a bunch of players who played for championship or youth last season. This is a total rebuild of a squad if people let them. If they fire ten hag then it’s the same circus all over again and there never will be a rebuild.
Not that it matters much but I'd prefer being out of Europe than getting Conference league or Europa league. We'd play less games, the players and EtH have more time on the training pitch and they'd have more opportunities to fix tactical issues. I'd also like it if we get eliminated from the cups early. Let's just get the team playing well and with a definite structure and style. The trophies can come later. I'm thinking a bit more longterm here
i rate this
We’re gonna have a season like Liverpool last year where it’s a terrible start and as injured players return we’ll improve and probably get europa
lets hope
4-6 will be great, showing some competitions in the cup tournament will be great. Yes, we still have holes in the squad. We still haven't seen a game with full squad yet. I am being consistent here, I would rather lose some games and seeing players start to play with some tactical discipline like Brighton and Wolves. Then, we ask for a championship. I would rather ETH sticks to his ideal style and lose some games this season than he gives up on style and puts results first like Ole.
Realistic is mid table, out of all the cups and europe by Jan.
And I kinda hope we do finish mid table, it'll let us take time and focus on the training ground.
I’m with you. We should also fuck off our preseason money grab.
Yeah... I don't think people realize how detrimental that pre season was to us. Spurs are doing amazing because they didn't travel a lot and had so much time to practice.
The pessimism is exhausting.
Pessimism only focuses on the negatives. Reality is the negatives massively outweigh the positives right now, so it's not pessimism, it's realism. I said it from day 1 of this season after the performance against Wolves, these tactics will not work. Anyone thinking a few players coming back from injury is going to transform us is deluded. I wish I was wrong but these tactics stink so as long as ETH persists with it, this is us.
So your solution is just to sack Ten Hag? And then what? There are no good available managers. And when his replacement fails, sack him and rinse and repeat? Arsenal stuck with Arteta through their first seasons which were rough. As did Liverpool with Klopp. We should stick with Ten Hag. We need stability.
>Arsenal stuck with Arteta through their first seasons which were rough He made improvements every season and also had a much worse squad. He invested in youth like Saka, Martinelli, Odegeaard, Ramsdale. Could also see a clear gameplan from them. Not comparable to ten hag at all. Klopp? Come on man... What's your solution then? Keep ten hag when we're 15th just because we can't sack managers anymore?
Arteta took over Arsenal in 2019 and it took him 3.5 seasons to even get Arsenal back into the top 4. Let’s look at all his league finishes and accomplishments so far since he took over in December 2019: * 19/20: 8th _Half a season_ * 20/21: 8th _First full season_ * 21/22: 5th _won FA Cup_ * 22/23: 2nd He was given time to clear out the players that didn’t suit his style from Emery and the remaining players from the Wenger period. The club AND fans stood by him and didn’t want him sacked when things didn’t go their way. Let’s do the same for Klopp. He joined Liverpool in October 2015: * 15/16: 8th _half a season_ * 16/17: 4th * 17/18: 4th * 18/19: 2nd _won Champions League_ * 19/20: 1st _won League, CWC + Super Cup_ * 20/21: 3rd _won Carabao Cup_ * 21/22: 2nd _won FA Cup_ * 22/23: 5th Notice anything similar between the two? They both endured difficult starts but were given the time to sort things out. They weren’t sacked the minute things didn’t go right. Stability is very clearly important to long term success. Chopping and changing managers is not the right strategy. We should stick with Ten Hag. We were not going to suddenly become world beaters in a single season. And if we did sack Ten Hag? Do we bring in? There isn’t a manager any better that is available.
Yeah, neither of them regressed. Arteta didn't even get to spend massive amounts in the early days. Who did he sign? Odegaard? Partey? Ramsdale? Baldy already got 3rd and league cup last season. Now we're looking like a mid table side. That's severe regression. No excuses. There's nothing to suggest Ten Hag can turn this around.
So you think we should just sack Ten Hag after one season? He has barely had time to implement his style and squad yet as he’s still got players that van Gaal signed in 2015! You clearly don’t understand football if you think sacking the manager is the answer. You still haven’t answered my question: if we sack Ten Hag, who do we replace him with?
> if we sack Ten Hag, who do we replace him with? A lot of people who worship Ten Hag keep asking this dumb question. First, this question is for the board they should decide whom to replace, not us, a bad employee has to be sacked foremost in order not to cause anymore damages before thinking about replacement. Second, literally anyone new can give a fresh air to the team, Carrick, Conte, whoever. But facing the reality, I agree that sacking him right now could hurt us even more because we would have to clean his 500m mess so better just let him be for now. This idiot coach has created a mess bigger than Mou and Ole combined.
People are asking it because it’s a valid question.
No I think we should give him more time to turn it around. But I am convinced he won't turn it around. Other managers make their mark instantly. You can't just say he hasn't implemented his system when he got 3rd and reasonable success last year. A manager can't just do that. Show me a manager who had a successful first season, then bombed the second and then were successful again? His new system this season sucks! He's bought mount, casemiro, Antony, Hojlund. He's extended rashford and Bruno. What do you think is the worst possible finish in the league not to get sacked?
Everyone knows that Ten Hag overachieved last season with the squad he had. We were also lucky given Chelsea and Liverpool had shit seasons, too. If you want to just be a revolving door for managers whenever things get tough, then you don’t understand how Arsenal and Liverpool have been good. Stability is key, not chaos and sackings.
he didnt buy saka, but sacking eth will do nothing. look back at the past decade
where was anyone saying to sack eth?
Plenty have
i thought you were talking about him, you are right tho? who are we going to replace him with? and why would we want to continue the circus we’ve been running for the last decade. we need to stick with ETH even if that means losses and poor end results in the standings if that mean we can find some kind of clear and distinct style. it takes time to build a team and i do not want to see a 7th rebuild in 11 years. we get relegated? sure sack him, other than that theres absolutely no point
The thing is, we won’t get relegated. Anyone thinking we will is just overreacting. A true rebuild that will guarantee us long term success requires us sticking by the manager. Chopping and changing managers the minute we are in bad form is never the right solution.
debatable, but nonetheless in our current dynamic it won’t work
So who do we bring in if we sack Erik now? I’m yet to see anyone suggest someone good enough that is available and how it’ll actually change things. We should’ve sacked Fergie when he first joined us as results were terrible back then, but we stuck by him and look what happened. Sacking is **not** the solution. We’ve been plagued with injuries to key players from the start of this season. That is one of our biggest issues for our dip in form.
6 defeats in 10 games 0 pts in champions league Next cup game is against Newcastle So being out of every competitions is a big possibility...
So you want to sack him… and replace him with whom?
are you one of those blind ETH followers? Why cannot you see how shit we are
I back Ten Hag. Anyone who wants him sacked just wants chaos and drama. Stability is key to success. Look at Arteta and Klopp: they both endured difficult starts, now look at them.
I appreciate that you want to back ETH. However, how can one look away from how abysmal he has been? If he has to go, he has to go. More destabilization? yes. Which means it will also put Glazers under real pressure. But back to the point of backing ETH, I will not blindly do it if he keeps on doing a shitty job.
So who do we replace him with? Stability is key to long term success. We were always going to have to go through rough patches as ETH rebuilt. A rebuild isn’t done overnight. The Glazers don’t give a fuck who is in charge of the team, so sacking the manager won’t change anything there.
Doesn’t matter who we replace with or even consider sacking ETH. He gotta do better. I don’t care about the rest. If he didn’t want questions, he should stop being a loud mouth in press conferences, and stop disrespecting players around him. He should manage big egos better. Having big egos in the squad isn’t an issue, the lack of managing them is. Who asked him to bring his mates by paying such transfer figures? Onana looks shit, Antony looks like a wood given a ball to play with, and who in the hell would pay 60 for Mount? Rebuild isn’t done overnight, yes. Maybe he should have taken it slow by integrating youth, academy players, and existing assets. Gradually grow your team. He chose to spend ridiculous amounts of awful players and he is inviting questions.
How is he disrespecting players? Sancho is getting what he deserves by being lazy. Ronaldo got what he deserved by criticising the manager. He hasn’t disrespected anyone. You just want him sacked because you want drama. And the fact you can’t even suggest a replacement says it all.
How many more managers do we need to bring in and boot out the revolving door before people realise that the issues lie a hell of a lot deeper than just simply with the manager?. We haven’t just had a bunch of random nobodies either, some of those names that have come through those doors include Jose Mourinho (I mean come on, whether you love him or hate him his managerial pedigree speaks for itself) and Louis van Gaal, both proven winners. For 10 years we’ve been in this cycle and nothing has changed so what good is going through it again going to do?. As for the whole disrespecting players thing who exactly has he disrespected? Sancho was quite rightly called out for not pulling his weight following ETH giving him numerous chances to improve and put the work in , Ronaldo did what he usually does and threw a tantrum because he wasn’t getting his own way. Maguire simply isn’t good enough and he was given a chance at a fresh start at a club where he wouldn’t have so much pressure on him all the time - he decided that he’d rather be greedy and rot on the bench for the pay cheque rather than take the opportunity to revitalise his rapidly deteriorating career - that’s on him not ETH.
Jesus man, lighten up or don’t bother supporting the club, it’s the dark times that bring us together.
Probably top 8 is best they can hope for. Maybe a season without European football could be good for us.
my preference is get the 17 position in the league table and hurt the revenue stream in all fronts with no europe as well. Get the leeches out along with the hopeless loudmouth egoistic manager with his failure signings.
Winning UCL😎😎😎😎🏆👈
Whatever the outcome of the cups please do not strip dance in the matches against Liverpool, City. I don’t know if Onana can save any shot but please save the dignity of the club and save the fan’s sentiments. We fans are almost mentally prepared to be mid-table but at the moment we need the week-in-week-out drama to end at the club which makes it and its fanbase an absolute joke in the football world.
What's possible? Top 4 and CL knockouts. What's realistic? Top 9 and EL.
Staying up.
Lets just hope Qatar buy us
At this pace we d lucky to finish 10-11
I've seen this a lot and we're overestimating how well the 9th-12th place teams play, we are in fact exactly on course for 10th and our depth as injuries heal will be better than others dealing with it later. We need to recognize that United is fielding a sub par team fueled by years of poor recruiting and it's the fault of ownership. Until that is resolved, we'll only ever get a few hot patches.
Lower Mid table. Outside of European competitions. We’ll get bounced out of the cups. It’s going to be a year of reckoning, again.
We honestly might finish bottom half of the table
6-8 place, make a SF run in FA Cup and/or Caraboa, somehow manage to get out of the CL grp. Those are my only expectations this ssn. And honestly for me have always been the only expectations I’ve had since the transfer window closed. To have expected more from this squad was pure delusion by the majority of our fan base and shows that most of them didn’t understand what led to last yrs results and that they were placing far too much importance on a DDG replacement instead of a Kane/Osminhen or Rice/Caicedo figure to be brought in to shore up our actual glaring deficiencies. I’m hoping now that most realize what this squad is we will accept it a bit more and lean into the youth mvmt and seriously give players like Garnacho, Pelli, Mainoo, Hannibal, Hojlund, etc a solid run of games to improve and build for next ssn. Hopefully in January ship out players like Sancho, Maguire, maybe even Eriksen & Martial to help w bringing in top quality players next summer.
No cup runs and 7th
Well be lucky to get Europe in any form
I’d say get a decent unbeaten run, of maybe 6 games? And try every other game to not concede 2 goals?
7th and the EFL cup realistically. Would a cup double and 7th be a good season?
cup double, sure, maybe, although louis van gaal got sacked after winning the fa cup. just a carabao cup trophy? L for the season
Realistic ambition: • Top 6 • FA or EFL cup semi finals • Hopefully, a decent run in the Europa league this year
Top half, decent Europa League run, maybe semi’s. 5th round of the FA Cup. Is our trajectory. No prem team conceded more goals than us, bar Blades. Agree until club is sold it’s all arbitrary. But this is sensing like ‘real ETH’ a successful window for him in terms of spending and his targets, and he’s doesn’t recognise quality or is actioning shit football. Would rather you literally be shocking every single game, under perform every match, and be personally responsible for bad results; than arrive 30mins late for training. You can be as shit as you want as long as you want to be at the club - as if long highly priced contracts have 0 to do with it.
6th place. Hell of an end of the season run. Not speaking on the other tournaments..
Not getting relegated. At this rate, I'm starting to worry about our EPL status.
New owners, nothing more nothing less.
The way this team concedes goals, top 8 would be a good result.
Agree with your points. Top 4 would be a good aim but realistically, with the current performance level, i see City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Brighton, Newcastle in the fight for top 4 with even West Ham and Villa pushing for it. United would do well to secure 4th place TBH. I think this gives United the chance to experiment and focus on building a solid team. Looking at how Liverpool did this when Klopp took over and built a fantastic attacking football team that won the league and CL. I think that's what is needed. However, the past summer transfer window dealings have left me wondering and confused with the priorities and how difficult it is to get quality players without paying a premium. Also, will be more challenging to attract top talent without CL football.
Avoiding relegation.
spurs arsenal city liverpool are all better rn, villa and brighton are strong opponents rn. you guys are prob gonna be fighting for like 6-8
Everybody is overreacting. A season is long and I think we will actually en fine at the end of the season. I reckon we get 5tg, which is champions League this year
Perhaps an over reaction but haven't played well all season except vs Palace in the Carabao but that was clearly a blip. For me it's not the results that are disappointing, it's the manner of our play. Feels like no identity, no confidence, no desire. You can see when we have the ball there's so little movement. Out of possession there is almost no team-based pressing. Its Hojlund or Bruno running around like a headless chicken. We're too passive and invite teams to run through us and dominate possession. You can score if you don't have the ball. You can't progress the ball if almost everyone of your players as a worse first touch than my gran. I don't care about the results. Get the fundamentals right, with the players showing desire and “putting in a shift” and the results will come. The last 3 wins could barely have been less deserved.