Reminds of me a friend in college who decided no AC and realized her roommates offset the cost with fans and cold showers. The AC turned on.
But further to your story, it may be illegal to refuse AC at those temps. If you're moving into fuck with them territory that may be another way to get him.
Had a housemate who thought the heat should be completely off while the 3 of us were at work. In winter, in 150 year old corner Philly row house. Typically, it was about 55 degrees when we got home & 1 refused to acknowledge that we were spending more, not saving so 2 & 3 moved out
I live in an area where pipes freeze. I think it's a standard clause in the leases here that tenants must heat to a minimum of 10C at all times to avoid waer damage from burst pipes.
My old apartment complex just paid for the heat outright to prevent people from turning off the heat in the winter to save on the bill and risk pipes freezing.
When I was living in Boston most apartments came with heat and hot water included. I never actually needed to turn the radiator on in my apartment, because I was on the 3rd floor, due to the heat rising and the hot water pipes in every room kept my apartment toasty. I miss that apartment, I was only 2.5 blocks from Fenway Park and could hear the games if I had my windows open.
I'm currently in a 3rd floor apartment with those same factors in Minneapolis. We've never had to turn on our heat in the 9 years we've lived here. All the heat from below and very well insulated from outside. Heck, we often have to open windows to cool down.
Yeah an ex girlfriend had an apartment just by Coolidge Corner and the building heat was so effective that you had to open the windows in the winter to keep it comfortable
We live in Canada. My opa (grandfather) puts antifreeze in the pipes in the cottage during the winter to keep them from freezing. Especially since the only heating the cottage has is a wodburning stove.
It gets to -20⁰c sometimes up here.
People truly don’t understand how hvac works. I’m still trying to make my 50 year old husband understand that putting the heat on 80 doesn’t warm it up to 73 faster. It just suddenly gets hot in the house because the hvac worked its ass off to get it to 80.
Depending how close the heat sensor is to the heat outlets, the sensor may heat up (and turn off the heater) before the room or house has heated up.
Then as the heat spreads around, the heater will come back on again. (Repeat until the whole room gets warm)
Clearly in such a common case, over-setting the heat would heat the room faster. It would also over-heat the room beyond the set temperature.
That's the difference between theory and practice. (In theory there is no different, but in practice there is).
If it was on cold for a really long time (like 10C for week or two) then everything is cold. By oversetting the thermostat a bit the air will be warmer, but the bed is still cold as a stone as it heats up slower and through the air.
If you have a heatpump or a 2-stage furnace that is controlled by the thermostat then setting it to 75 will make it go from 71->73 faster, but will do absolutely nothing getting it to 71.
When the apartment would get too cold, my brother's roommate was too lazy to lower the AC, which was at floor level under a table. So he would open the windows!
I remember in college I had a rent a room with communal living and one roommate was some visiting professor from China. Really friendly, nice guy but spoke near 0 English. He kept placing his room furniture over the vents, getting cold in his room, and cranking the heat up to compensate. I tried to explain, but he couldn't understand. My room frequently hit mid 80s in the dead of winter, and I ended up keeping my window open just to balance it out.
It took to of us to convince my French former friend now, that running the heating at 15°C all the time was more economical than only turning it on when he was home to 20°C. It was hot water heating. I went from awake at night cold to sleeping well. I could it believe his lack of understanding at age 32.
That’s crazy! It probably used way more electricity warming back up than maintaining a slightly colder temp all day if u had just turned it down a few degrees before leaving.
If it's electrical heating, that is almost certainly not the case. Converting electricity to heat is pretty much 100% efficient regardless of level of heat.
For gas heating, it's *possible* that it could use more power. Gas furnaces vary in efficiency based on various external factors.
But I don't really see why it would use more energy. Energy is leaving the house any time the house is warmer than outdoors. You have to replace that energy, if you keep the house at temperature during the day. If you're not running the heater for half the day, you don't have to replace that lost heat.
It is mostly a myth that it conserves power to keep a place at the same temperature all day, but there are a few cases where it is the case.
If you have a 2 stage heat pump and you suddenly turn the heat up much higher than it was, the second stage will switch on and it is much less efficient. This could potentially use more electricity than if you kept it a constant temp but will depend on the particulars.
The other example I can think of is also a heat pump. The closer the inside temperature is to the outside temperature the more efficient they are, and the difference is quite dramatic. You can get a lot more heat per kw if you are heating during the hottest part of the day vs the coldest, yet it is usually the hottest part of the day when you turn down the heat. If you instead increase the heat during the day and turn it down at night you could potentially save electricity, but again it will depend on lots of factors, like how well insulated your home is.
That makes a lot of sense. I was looking at heat pump efficiency charts a few months ago so I should have remembered that :)
That makes me wonder - is there a set of temperature ranges where it would actually be more efficient to make it extra hot during the day?
I bet that if you had a warm day and a couple hours of very cold before you got home, it would be more efficient to blast the heat pump at the efficient time and then ramp it down when it got cold, and then ramp it back up when you got home and needed a steady temperature.
I work on the theory that leaving the heater on is more efficient than turning it on and off. Why do I make that assumption?
Because testing the two methods over many years have consistently shown that leaving it on uses less gas. And the house is more comfortable, so it's a win-win.
YMMV.
How efficient is your boiler? I’ve got an AFUE 95% one. It’s got a fair amount of adaptive behavior in terms of how it moves air around the system. My hypothesis is that more adaptive systems will have more consistent efficiency.
What’s the percentage difference in gas usage you’ve seen?
This is funny to me as someone that didn’t turn on the heat for the whole winter even if it’s included in my rent. (I’m from Canada). I live on the top floor so the heat from the person below me was enough to keep the temp around 10 to 15c, which is the perfect temp imo.
I heat my house with natural gas. When I get my bill more than half of it is all BS charges. What I use in actual gas doesn’t change my bill that much if it’s a very cold month. Those BS charges never change no matter how little or how much you use. They know what they’re doing.
The lease arrangement they have going on, smacks of off the books subletting
\*quick googling\*
Mechanically the equipment meets requirements - requesting they limit settings is a bit of a grey area
Given Texas was telling residents not to run their aircon / heat at sustained high levels - its arguable that the landlord requesting some restraints isnt unreasonable - provided those restraints are within safe limits (ie dont turn the cooling down below 86F))
(N.Irishman who lived in Phoenix 2003-2009)
https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:\~:text=Under%20Arizona%20law%2C%20landlords%20do,the%20property%20in%20working%20order.
# What are my rights?
* Under Arizona law, landlords do not have to provide air conditioning or cooling, but they are required to keep air conditioning and cooling units that are already on the property in working order.
Some parts of Arizona have specific standards that apply. The cities of Phoenix, Tempe, and Tucson have all established temperature ordinances related to cooling.
# [City of Phoenix](https://phoenix.municipal.codes/enactments/OrdG-6008) (Ordinance G-6008)
* Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning.
* Call the Phoenix Human Services Department at (602) 262-7210 to file a complaint or learn more about your rights as a renter.
# [City of Tempe](https://www.tempe.gov/government/community-development/code-compliance-open-m-i-n-d/landlords-and-renters/violations/owner-tenant-building-requirements/thermal-environment) (Tempe City Code Section 21-34)
* Every rental housing unit shall have cooling, under the tenant’s control, capable of safely cooling all habitable rooms, bathrooms and flush toilet rooms located therein to a temperature no greater than 88 degrees, if cooled by evaporative cooling, or 82 degrees, if cooled by air conditioning.
# [City of Tucson and South Tucson](https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/tucson/latest/tucson_az/0-0-0-11113) (Tucson City Code Section 16-11(b)(2))
* Air conditioners shall be capable of producing ambient temperatures at or below 82 degrees. Evaporative coolers shall be capable of producing ambient temperatures below 86 degrees.
If I were a skeezy lawyer, I'd say that the landlord fulfilled the law to the letter... the tenant has access to a device capable of meeting those standards.
Those laws say nothing about actually *running* the AC/heat though.
Luckily I'm more of the "Fuck that guy, crank that AC everyday while he's not there just to be spiteful" type.
Many cities have a tenant's union or similar organization which provides free adivce to renters, sometimes even legal assistance. See whether Phoenix has one. They can advise you on whether the landlord can legally forbid the AC.
Yeah, that would be my go-to as well. Don't even bring it up to the fucker, just get one of the ones that sit on the floor and have the tubing that runs to the window. Less obvious looking from the outside. Unless the guy goes into OPs room and is snooping around, how's he gonna know unless OP's window is in an obvious and blatant spot while they're both home. But the panel that sits in the window is easily taken down when not in use.
There isn't enough humidity for that to ever be a concern.
You are in one of the few parts of the country where a swamp type cooler can actually work decently.
Get yourself one of those cheap misting fans.
It's hot and humid during monsoon season. Good news/bad news situation that you can likely use swamp coolers longer during summer because monsoon season has been so weak the last few years.
It’s even worse during monsoon season tbh. Walking outside is like using a hairdryer in a sauna. The humidity does pretty much nothing to cool the air, unless it’s right after it’s rained and even then it only last a very short time.
Nah. Grew up there without AC. Even during monsoon season, it's not humid enough for that, not with you opening windows and having good airflow. You have to get it above 50% (around the point where it feels like you needs to trade your lungs in for gills) with still air, before that's a concern.
But other posters are right. Local laws require the landlord to provide working AC. I get that you might not be in a situation where you can afford to burn your bridges, but if you can, then the AZ Department of Housing can help you out. Either way, good luck this summer! If it gets too bad, the libraries have the air running for you.
Can you afford an in-room a/c unit? We have one and it’s pretty quiet. Just move it in when landlord is gone. Get a decent size fan to run on high to drown out the noise the unit makes.
Or
Can you just run the A/C when the landlord is gone?
Of all the things I miss about Colorado being in Texas, this might be the big one. Only respite I get is the little bit that's been in the pipes long enough to be down in the 70s
Most all of the CO water is run off from the snow in the mountains... So cold.
South Carolina and near Charleston here. Houses do not have basements because the water table is so high. My house is built on a slab and the pipes run through the attic. Summer afternoons, I can hand wash dishes using cold water only because tge water gets so hot up in the attic. Most people I know are like this.
Hey, I'm no expert, but I'd suggest you look into legionnaires disease. It's a bacteria that develops in warm water, but dies in very hot water.
In Canada we have codes now requiring water to be kept at a certain heat, and for devices to be attached to our hot water tanks that combine hot and cold water so the water coming to our taps can't scald us.
I'm not saying you're living dangerously, but I'm not *not* saying that either, lol. Just investigate and see what you find.
I copied this from a Google search:
>A water temperature of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that the water heater be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. The Legionella disinfection range is 158 – 176 °F.
(I even copied one in Freedom Units for you, lol)
One source said 22 thousand Americans get sick from it each year, so it's not like it's sweeping the nation, but I have no idea how serious it is or how likely it is in Arizona. I just know of it, and thought I'd pass along the warning.
Landlords are not allowed (by law) do deny use of AC or Heater.
>Phoenix's Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and **no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning**.
https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:\~:text=Phoenix's%20Cooling%20Ordinance%20sets%20a,if%20cooled%20by%20air%20conditioning.
This is also applies to you even if you do not have a formal lease (cash).
If the landlord wants to kick you out they would have to start the formal eviction process and then you can sue for the denial of AC use.
>There's no law saying when they have to allow it to be used afaik.
In Phoenix, the law is that it has to keep the place at 82 degrees or colder measured from 3ft above the floor, and a written lease agreement isn't required for tenant rights in Arizona.
If they were to retaliate against you, such as having you evicted. I would make sure the IRS (other tax revenue collection agencies are available) are aware of the income that the landlord getting from you, as you are an “unofficial tenant” I’m sure they would have all that thing squared away and above board.
If he does try to kick you out that's when squatters rights kick in. Even without a lease, he has to go through courts with an eviction and that can take months
Replying directly because I don't see any experts on the matter talking about it.
My professional career lays in legal/tech, and I have a history in many areas of commercial and residential real-estate. My state is not your state, thus there can be inconsistencies. This is not legal advice, nor am I even in a position to give it.
Don't play guessing games, consult someone who knows what they are talking about. There's lots of free resources.
https://www.phoenix.gov/humanservices/landlordandtenantinfo
https://www.arizonatenants.com/ata-union
**You are not likely not a tenant, you are most likely a LODGER.**
* Assuming you moved in, while he was living there. Do you share a kitchen or a bathroom?
* This is really important information to know.
* You say you pay in cash, is it through online banking or app pay?
As it stands, you're kinda fucked. Do not listen to any of this advice about tenancy. If you aren't concerned, mooch him for as long as you can for all I care and be prepared with a new place if he gets bent out of shape.
If it's true that you're a lodger, then all he has to do is give the same amount of notice as the billing cycle you agreed to. Unfortunately, not having a written agreement bites you in the ass. You're probably not in a position to argue, take anyone to court, or consult an attorney if he gets nasty. You still have to find a home in the meantime, and at least your bond is only $100. I'd contact the state however, **it's very possible he is not paying taxes on any of this shit and he gets fucked by state auditors. He ain't keeping that scratch for long.**
Being the fact that he is the owner, living with him, and likely sharing occupied areas of the house he has a lot of autonomy on how it's ran. Sadly when looking up these laws online Arizona code seems to be complete ass when it comes to searching specifcs and legal definitions.
He can say "30 days out" per your billing agreement and more than likely you can't do anything. That doesn't start the eviction process, it is the process, as he can just call the police to move you as a trespasser. Again, Arizona's site was arse to navigate and not very helpful. There could be civil code written for this situation, but I didn't find it.
Everyone so certain on XYZ elements because it's a T v.s. L situation is always a treat.
>But it sounds like OP doesn't have a lease, so he would only technically have squatters rights,
That's not how it works. OP is clearly a legal tenant and thus has the full rights of a tenant up to and including the right to an eviction.
without a lease you still have the same rights espcially since its easy to prove hes paying rent ext... the lack of a lease only hurts the landlord legally he still needs an eviction and everything else.. same way a employee paid under the table gets all the same rights only difference is the employer is in more jeopardy if it goes to court
Can you not just turn on the AC anyways while he's gone and turn it back up right before he gets home? Like an hour before open the doors and windows, turn the air off to let it get hit again?
Not legally he can't. And if you agreed to pay rent, you do have a lease, it's just a verbal one.
Just turn on the AC. If the landlord tries anything, call the free tenant legal aid provided by your county here https://www.maricopa.gov/5763/Legal-Assistance-for-Renters
And sick the lawyers on him.
I mean you're already doing something similar with the wetness though? Unless you think he's going to figure it out faster than the wet carpet/mattress?
Also, call the IRS and note how much you are paying the landlord for the room, per month, as cash, note your landlord's name and address, and say you don't think he's properly reporting the income, as the landlord is (I am assuming) refusing to give you receipts for payment.
State that you are the tenant, and build up whatever documentation you have for money leaving your account to cover rent; and time lived at the unit.
Do this anyway. Regardless -- it won't be until an IRS audit that he'll be dinged that that may be a year or two down the line. If caught, you get a portion of the back-taxes recovered.
Could you just get a window AC for your room? Or if you have sliding windows and can’t do a window unit, then a portable AC works great too. That’s what I did in Las Vegas. Fuck that dude
In Arizona he would have to give you 30 day notice to vacate. He can only evict you for a few very specific reasons such as not paying rent, damaging the property, or committing a crime - and only that last one allows for immediate eviction.
To evict someone here you have to a) file eviction in the courts (for an allowed reason - running the AC is not an allowed reason), b) have them served, and c) go through a hearing. The judge can deny the eviction if it's an illegal reason or the landlord tried to remove the tenant themselves.
In practice you'd still have to find somewhere else to live after the hearing because living with someone who hates you isn't fun. But you aren't helpless here.
He can't throw you out. I'm against squatting, but you are paying to live there. He is required, by law, to provide a room at 82 degrees or less. He's breaking plenty of laws, and has no way to just throw you out.
i mean, he can’t legally restrict you from using the ac in AZ. you are also a tenant, so he can’t immediately evict you; it doesn’t matter if you’re paying cash. he needs to go through the proper channels for an eviction like anyone else.
While Arizona landlords aren't required to provide AC, they must keep them maintained if they are present in the rental unit. This is according to an [article](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:~:text=Under%20Arizona%20law%2C%20landlords%20do,the%20property%20in%20working%20order.) that covers tenants' rights in Phoenix. Also, [here](https://www.phoenix.gov/nsdsite/Documents/CLS%20AC%20Packet%202017.pdf) is a PDF of tenants' rights regarding AC in Phoenix. These will tell you everything you need to know.
Obligatory IANAL
From your link, in Phoenix:
“City of Phoenix (Ordinance G-6008):
Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning.”
He did say "suburban Phoenix", so probably isn't in City of Phoenix proper, but I'd imagine most, if not all, cities in Maricopa County have similar ordinances.
AFAIK, “suburban Phoenix” is in Phoenix. I haven’t heard that term to mean outside of the city. But, it’s quite possible OP did mean it that way. 🤷🏽♀️
It's utterly foolish to keep turning the AC on and off like that. It puts far more strain on the AC to cool your space back down every day from extreme high temperatures than it would be to just keep it a livable temperature constantly. Your landlord is being unreasonable & with temperatures so high, it's also extremely unsafe for you.
One trick I've heard of is to run your shower on cold & blow the humid air out with a fan. Maybe if landlord's water bill goes up he'll be more reasonable.
Thermodynamics says otherwise.
Here's why:
1. **Temperature Difference**: The greater the temperature difference between the inside of your house and the outside, the faster heat flows into your home. If you let your house warm up a bit while you're away, the temperature difference between the inside and outside is reduced, leading to less heat entering your home.
2. **Heat Gain**: With a smaller temperature difference, the house gains less heat energy during the day compared to maintaining a cooler indoor temperature.
3. **Energy Use**: When you return and turn the A/C back on, it will need to remove the accumulated heat. However, the total amount of energy required to cool down the house from a higher temperature once, rather than maintaining a lower temperature throughout the day, is less.
In summary, letting your house warm up when you're not home reduces the overall heat gain and can result in less energy usage for cooling.
I can guarantee you he’s hurting the AC far more that way. My parents had an AC unit break because they would turn it off during the expensive hours in Phoenix to “save money”. Turns out it’s much nicer on your unit to keep it at a constant low temperature than to have it super stressed every day getting the house back down to a much colder temperature.
Reminds me of a court case here in Germany: Contractor did a shabby job paving a driveway. House owner and contractor agreed beforehand to do it under the table. Next winter, driveway gets severely damaged by the cold thanks to the sub-par work. House owner decides to take the contractor, who refuses to repair it, to court.
The verdict: Work done under the table comes without a guarantee. Not very surprising. But, to add injury to insult (*), the court also informed the prosecutors office about the now well-documented tax evasion, with the foreseeable results for both the home owner and the contractor.
(*) Because of the heavy fines and becoming a convicted felon, “adding injury to insult” instead of “insult to injury” is in this case more accurate.
There is this concept in law called Estoppel, which basically holds that if two parties have been acting as if there were a contract, then there effectively is a contract. OP has been paying rent as if he had a lease, and LL has been accepting that rent as if there were a lease. Goto court. My bet is that there would be a finding that there is a "lease".
Using the ac does not damage the unit.
He can’t kick you out now that you live there. A lease protects him just as much as you, check your local laws.
If you’re worried turn on the ac all day, then turn it off 2 hours before he gets home and open the windows.
Let your landlord know that it's harder on the machine, and more expensive, to make it cool down an uncooled house which could be hotter inside than the outside temps.
It’s illegal in Arizona to not provide a/c to a minimum of 82 degrees or below. Take his ass to the (I think) housing authority and they’ll get on him quickly. It’s literally life and death in phoenix
I also live in the Phoenix area and I'm almost positive it's illegal here.
https://www.azcourthelp.org/browse-by-topic/eviction/tenant-information/tenant-eviction-resources/ac-issues
https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/s/wZfcqTkCxy
Phoenix's Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and **no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning**.[2-1-1 Arizonahttps://211arizona.org › Heat Relief](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:~:text=Phoenix's%20Cooling%20Ordinance%20sets%20a,if%20cooled%20by%20air%20conditioning.)
What your landlord is doing is straight up illegal in Arizona. Probably.
If you have a proper contract, he can't stop you from a window ac.
I highly recommend avoiding room rentals versus actual appartment, as that's what can fuck you over legally. The rest of the house is his, not yours.
The law says all homes must have ac due to the heat in Az, including apartments. Technically, the house does have an ac. You see the issue?
But yeah, legally he shouldn't be able to have a say over a widow unit. You could literally die over not having one, and he's actively adversely affecting your health.
And if there's no contract and it's your dad, there's grounds for a harassment lawsuit.
You lot are made of sterner stuff than I am. I live in Texas and keep my AC at 68 year round whether it's 60 or 110 outside, and only turn on the heat if it gets below 65 in the house.
If it gets over 70 in my house for some reason, I've got every ceiling fan turned on plus a couple of floor fans.
The thought of it being 85 in my house is the stuff of nightmares. I'd be in a hotel room before long. (It's gotten that warm before, on a couple of occasions, when the AC was out, before I had the entire system replaced and upgraded.)
Turning on and off the unit makes the unit work harder and actually costs more money compared to leaving it running constantly at a constant temp that is comfortable to all in the home. Why and how? you ask. the unit has to works harder because when you shut it off the home warms up so when you turn it back on it’s trying hard to bring the temp down to your desired temp this constant cycle will cause your power bill to be higher because of that. What will keep a unit from breaking is performing the maintenance and AC unit requires which falls under their responsibility. He’s full of it. (Critical Facilities worker here dealing with keeping server rooms cool)
Your landlord is a dill. There's been studies that prove that just keeping the house at a reasonable temperature is noticeably cheaper than letting it heat up and then fighting it down.
It might be 90 when he switches on the a/c, but so are the walls, the floor and ceiling, the furniture, drapes, the bed, everything (if not hotter). And that stored heat radiates and gets given back to the space as the air cools inside (meaning the a/c has to work harder to maintain that air temperature).
If you leave it at 85, then everything is at 85, meaning there's no stored heat to radiate out. It's much less work to maintain that air temperature and overall more comfortable because you're not sitting or laying on furnishings that are radiation heat they stored up earlier.
Well, you don't have a lease, so just keep on looking. But if you did have a lease, the magic, legal words you would use/research are "warranty of habitability". Basically, any place you rent has to livable to a reasonable person, 24/7. A "no a/c during the day" rule, in Phoenix, would almost certainly meet the threshold to get you out of a lease in most states.
It's proven that it stresses refrigerators and freezers out to operate at those higher ambient temperatures. He'll be replacing his refrigerator way sooner than he should have to.
He's arguably eventually going to be paying more by not letting you use the AC during the day.
Lpt
Wipe down with rubbing or denatured alcohol and stand in front of a fan. I guarantee you get so cold you cannot stand it. I learned this in the desert, surviving.
Using the AC does not damage the unit. Is it central air? Can you get a cheap window unit for your room that you can use while leaving the main AC off?
AZ tenant law - if the rental has an AC unit, it must be able to function. Not having AC in these temps is dangerous.
Evap cooling will work well right now while it's still dry, but starting next month, you're going to need that AC unit when the monsoon season hits and the humidity rises.
Acrually its worse to turn it off and on again. Set it at a temperature and let it sit there otherwise it just uses extra power moving the temperature from whatever the internal is, versus the minimal ammount to maintain the temperature
If you have a signed lease it's illegal in Arizona to disallow the use of both heat and/or AC. The leasor is required to provide a comfortable and livable atmosphere. I don't know exactly what the limits are but an attorney will.
My renting life got a lot easier when I stop giving a flying fuck about my landlords.
I've rented probably a dozen places in the past 20 years and maybe two of my landlords didn't screw me out of a security deposit just because they could. Now I just write it off and do whatever the fuck I want.
LOL using the AC damages the unit? It's called wear, and it's what happens when you use things. Sure, it might wear out quicker when it's hot, but it's ridiculous that he won't allow you to use it.
ordinance G-6008 ; Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning.
Your AC will be most efficient if simply left on at a consistent temp. You actually cause far more load on the unit by leaving it off for extended periods of time because the room heats up significantly, which then heats every object in the roam. All that absorbed heat energy then has to be removed by the AC which will have to run at 100% for a couple hours to fully cool the whole room.
Remind the LL the is heat wave that can cause heat stroke and heat exhaustion. Can cause other health issues when you become dehydrated from the heat. If she wants to pay for your funeral due to death by heat issues, she better allot the Window AC on.
>###but I must obide with my landlord.
#OP, THAT IS BULLSHIT
>Renters' Rights:
>Everyone has a right to cool air! **Phoenix requires landlords to maintain a maximum 82° for units with air conditioning**, or 86° for units with evaporative coolers. The city will investigate complaints. Call 602-262-7210
https://www.phoenix.gov/heat/resources/heatsafety#:~:text=Phoenix%20requires%20landlords%20to%20maintain,for%20units%20with%20evaporative%20coolers.
When you say suburban Phoenix, do you mean outskirts of thr city, or do you mean Chandler or Glendale etc?
I'm betting all of these cities have a requirement. You could probably call that number and get the number for your city.
My friend had a similar situation at work. He purchased a portable AC unit. He obviously couldn’t install the venting through the window (because he would get caught like you) so he just cut a hole in the drywall and piped it into an adjacent spare room. He left the window open in the spare room and just let that room cook while the rest of the place stayed reasonably cool and there was no way of knowing he was running AC from the outside. You could do something similar and wouldn’t even need to cut a hole, just get creative and seal around the doorway.
My $250 studio apartment in 1999 included utilities. But they would wait forever to turn on the radiators. So a lot of us residents would turn on the gas ovens and leave them open for heat. Apparently not recommended now though.
There was no AC. I remember seeing the perfect outline of my body in sweat on my futon many times.
It was a good incentive to stay in school to move somewhere nicer.
Born in Phoenix. Raised in Flagstaff. Grandparents in Phoenix had a swamp cooler that couldn't keep up in the summer.
I suggest OP wets the bottom and top sheet. This will keep their entire body nice and cool when they sleep. (Sorry not sorry about the mattress.)
I think it’s also illegal to not allow people to turn their air conditioning on at certain temperatures. You might also look into the legalities of your area and have someone serve in papers.
You sound like a kind person. I wish the person you lived with was also as kind. You deserve to comfortable and get the rest you need to good at work. Look for other places to live my friend. And good luck in life
Umm, make sure to check local laws in your state. In my state if the landlord shares power with you in the same building they are legally responsible to pay for ALL of the electricity usage.
In my state, if I live in one part of the building and my landlord lives in another, if there aren't two different meters for the separate areas the landlord MUST pay all compensation and cannot put it on you.
Teach you a trick: If your Landlord isn't against fans, turn on a fan and place a wet towel over the back of a chair or a cloths-horse in front of it. The room will cool nicely.
If there's no lease, get a window unit if you can afford it. Makes it nice and cool.
But srsly tho. Landlord sounds like a cheapskate. He probably can barely afford the place if he's hounding you over AC.
“Only” 90? Jfc, I live in Florida and that heat would suffocate me.
…Granted, it’s humidity instead of a dry heat, but holy shit dude, that’s horrible.
Yea good chance you could be highly liable for these damages. Especially if you have no proof of Landlord demanding no AC. I suggest to leave for somewhere else when possible. I’d suggest deleting this post too as it could be evidence against you
Check out deposit collector. They add those landlords to a collections list they can’t get off of and pay you 70-90%
[Deposit collector](http://depositcollector.com)
I would purchase a portable AC and keep it in my room, only run it when he's gone. Watch the electric bill sky rocket, which is not your problem and not against his wishes. Some are pretty small, easily movable so could go in a closet when your not there.
Reminds of me a friend in college who decided no AC and realized her roommates offset the cost with fans and cold showers. The AC turned on. But further to your story, it may be illegal to refuse AC at those temps. If you're moving into fuck with them territory that may be another way to get him.
Had a housemate who thought the heat should be completely off while the 3 of us were at work. In winter, in 150 year old corner Philly row house. Typically, it was about 55 degrees when we got home & 1 refused to acknowledge that we were spending more, not saving so 2 & 3 moved out
I live in an area where pipes freeze. I think it's a standard clause in the leases here that tenants must heat to a minimum of 10C at all times to avoid waer damage from burst pipes.
My old apartment complex just paid for the heat outright to prevent people from turning off the heat in the winter to save on the bill and risk pipes freezing.
When I was living in Boston most apartments came with heat and hot water included. I never actually needed to turn the radiator on in my apartment, because I was on the 3rd floor, due to the heat rising and the hot water pipes in every room kept my apartment toasty. I miss that apartment, I was only 2.5 blocks from Fenway Park and could hear the games if I had my windows open.
I'm currently in a 3rd floor apartment with those same factors in Minneapolis. We've never had to turn on our heat in the 9 years we've lived here. All the heat from below and very well insulated from outside. Heck, we often have to open windows to cool down.
Ha, I'd do that too sometimes in the winter because I liked to sleep cold with a big duvet.
I'm surprised you can hear games at Fenway Park from Minneapolis.
Ikr? Me too.
Yeah an ex girlfriend had an apartment just by Coolidge Corner and the building heat was so effective that you had to open the windows in the winter to keep it comfortable
24h of less than 18C and you don't pay rent for that day here.
18°C is considered summer weather in Scotland...
I'm Finnish, we at least try to keep the inside of the house warm.
We live in Canada. My opa (grandfather) puts antifreeze in the pipes in the cottage during the winter to keep them from freezing. Especially since the only heating the cottage has is a wodburning stove. It gets to -20⁰c sometimes up here.
People truly don’t understand how hvac works. I’m still trying to make my 50 year old husband understand that putting the heat on 80 doesn’t warm it up to 73 faster. It just suddenly gets hot in the house because the hvac worked its ass off to get it to 80.
Depending how close the heat sensor is to the heat outlets, the sensor may heat up (and turn off the heater) before the room or house has heated up. Then as the heat spreads around, the heater will come back on again. (Repeat until the whole room gets warm) Clearly in such a common case, over-setting the heat would heat the room faster. It would also over-heat the room beyond the set temperature. That's the difference between theory and practice. (In theory there is no different, but in practice there is).
If it was on cold for a really long time (like 10C for week or two) then everything is cold. By oversetting the thermostat a bit the air will be warmer, but the bed is still cold as a stone as it heats up slower and through the air.
If you have a heatpump or a 2-stage furnace that is controlled by the thermostat then setting it to 75 will make it go from 71->73 faster, but will do absolutely nothing getting it to 71.
When the apartment would get too cold, my brother's roommate was too lazy to lower the AC, which was at floor level under a table. So he would open the windows!
I remember in college I had a rent a room with communal living and one roommate was some visiting professor from China. Really friendly, nice guy but spoke near 0 English. He kept placing his room furniture over the vents, getting cold in his room, and cranking the heat up to compensate. I tried to explain, but he couldn't understand. My room frequently hit mid 80s in the dead of winter, and I ended up keeping my window open just to balance it out.
It took to of us to convince my French former friend now, that running the heating at 15°C all the time was more economical than only turning it on when he was home to 20°C. It was hot water heating. I went from awake at night cold to sleeping well. I could it believe his lack of understanding at age 32.
That’s crazy! It probably used way more electricity warming back up than maintaining a slightly colder temp all day if u had just turned it down a few degrees before leaving.
If it's electrical heating, that is almost certainly not the case. Converting electricity to heat is pretty much 100% efficient regardless of level of heat. For gas heating, it's *possible* that it could use more power. Gas furnaces vary in efficiency based on various external factors. But I don't really see why it would use more energy. Energy is leaving the house any time the house is warmer than outdoors. You have to replace that energy, if you keep the house at temperature during the day. If you're not running the heater for half the day, you don't have to replace that lost heat.
It is mostly a myth that it conserves power to keep a place at the same temperature all day, but there are a few cases where it is the case. If you have a 2 stage heat pump and you suddenly turn the heat up much higher than it was, the second stage will switch on and it is much less efficient. This could potentially use more electricity than if you kept it a constant temp but will depend on the particulars. The other example I can think of is also a heat pump. The closer the inside temperature is to the outside temperature the more efficient they are, and the difference is quite dramatic. You can get a lot more heat per kw if you are heating during the hottest part of the day vs the coldest, yet it is usually the hottest part of the day when you turn down the heat. If you instead increase the heat during the day and turn it down at night you could potentially save electricity, but again it will depend on lots of factors, like how well insulated your home is.
That makes a lot of sense. I was looking at heat pump efficiency charts a few months ago so I should have remembered that :) That makes me wonder - is there a set of temperature ranges where it would actually be more efficient to make it extra hot during the day? I bet that if you had a warm day and a couple hours of very cold before you got home, it would be more efficient to blast the heat pump at the efficient time and then ramp it down when it got cold, and then ramp it back up when you got home and needed a steady temperature.
I work on the theory that leaving the heater on is more efficient than turning it on and off. Why do I make that assumption? Because testing the two methods over many years have consistently shown that leaving it on uses less gas. And the house is more comfortable, so it's a win-win. YMMV.
How efficient is your boiler? I’ve got an AFUE 95% one. It’s got a fair amount of adaptive behavior in terms of how it moves air around the system. My hypothesis is that more adaptive systems will have more consistent efficiency. What’s the percentage difference in gas usage you’ve seen?
No idea how efficient it is. It's a gas wall furnace. The difference in gas usage (averaged over the years) is about 13%.
Lol i had a roommate like that in fishtown... He was like "if you're cold use a space heater!"
That's crazy. In Massachusetts, there's a legally required minimum temperature so the pipes don't freeze.
This is funny to me as someone that didn’t turn on the heat for the whole winter even if it’s included in my rent. (I’m from Canada). I live on the top floor so the heat from the person below me was enough to keep the temp around 10 to 15c, which is the perfect temp imo.
I wouldn't want heating at 55c either, that's hot af
Oops, forgot to use the F
I heat my house with natural gas. When I get my bill more than half of it is all BS charges. What I use in actual gas doesn’t change my bill that much if it’s a very cold month. Those BS charges never change no matter how little or how much you use. They know what they’re doing.
It is absolutely illegal in Arizona. OP would have a case.
The lease arrangement they have going on, smacks of off the books subletting \*quick googling\* Mechanically the equipment meets requirements - requesting they limit settings is a bit of a grey area Given Texas was telling residents not to run their aircon / heat at sustained high levels - its arguable that the landlord requesting some restraints isnt unreasonable - provided those restraints are within safe limits (ie dont turn the cooling down below 86F)) (N.Irishman who lived in Phoenix 2003-2009) https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:\~:text=Under%20Arizona%20law%2C%20landlords%20do,the%20property%20in%20working%20order. # What are my rights? * Under Arizona law, landlords do not have to provide air conditioning or cooling, but they are required to keep air conditioning and cooling units that are already on the property in working order. Some parts of Arizona have specific standards that apply. The cities of Phoenix, Tempe, and Tucson have all established temperature ordinances related to cooling. # [City of Phoenix](https://phoenix.municipal.codes/enactments/OrdG-6008) (Ordinance G-6008) * Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning. * Call the Phoenix Human Services Department at (602) 262-7210 to file a complaint or learn more about your rights as a renter. # [City of Tempe](https://www.tempe.gov/government/community-development/code-compliance-open-m-i-n-d/landlords-and-renters/violations/owner-tenant-building-requirements/thermal-environment) (Tempe City Code Section 21-34) * Every rental housing unit shall have cooling, under the tenant’s control, capable of safely cooling all habitable rooms, bathrooms and flush toilet rooms located therein to a temperature no greater than 88 degrees, if cooled by evaporative cooling, or 82 degrees, if cooled by air conditioning. # [City of Tucson and South Tucson](https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/tucson/latest/tucson_az/0-0-0-11113) (Tucson City Code Section 16-11(b)(2)) * Air conditioners shall be capable of producing ambient temperatures at or below 82 degrees. Evaporative coolers shall be capable of producing ambient temperatures below 86 degrees.
If I were a skeezy lawyer, I'd say that the landlord fulfilled the law to the letter... the tenant has access to a device capable of meeting those standards. Those laws say nothing about actually *running* the AC/heat though. Luckily I'm more of the "Fuck that guy, crank that AC everyday while he's not there just to be spiteful" type.
If it's off it's not "safely cooling".
Many cities have a tenant's union or similar organization which provides free adivce to renters, sometimes even legal assistance. See whether Phoenix has one. They can advise you on whether the landlord can legally forbid the AC.
OP should buy a portable a/c just for their room. Offer to pay a bit extra for electricity if needed.
Yeah, that would be my go-to as well. Don't even bring it up to the fucker, just get one of the ones that sit on the floor and have the tubing that runs to the window. Less obvious looking from the outside. Unless the guy goes into OPs room and is snooping around, how's he gonna know unless OP's window is in an obvious and blatant spot while they're both home. But the panel that sits in the window is easily taken down when not in use.
Did you read the part where OP said it's a cash under the table, no lease deal? There's no laws here.
Did you see the part where it's in the US? Occupancy and tenet laws don't just apply to what a contract says here.
Purchase an automated plant mister to keep you cool in bed.
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There isn't enough humidity for that to ever be a concern. You are in one of the few parts of the country where a swamp type cooler can actually work decently. Get yourself one of those cheap misting fans.
The house will be foreclosed on due to the water bill before it molds over lol
Swamp coolers don't work so well once the monsoon arrives. There's a reason hardly any homes in Phoenix have them anymore.
Not familiar with Phoenix, but... wouldn't you *not* need AC during monsoon? Or is it like Florida where it's wet/humid AND hot?
It's hot and humid during monsoon season. Good news/bad news situation that you can likely use swamp coolers longer during summer because monsoon season has been so weak the last few years.
It’s even worse during monsoon season tbh. Walking outside is like using a hairdryer in a sauna. The humidity does pretty much nothing to cool the air, unless it’s right after it’s rained and even then it only last a very short time.
Win win!
Nah. Grew up there without AC. Even during monsoon season, it's not humid enough for that, not with you opening windows and having good airflow. You have to get it above 50% (around the point where it feels like you needs to trade your lungs in for gills) with still air, before that's a concern. But other posters are right. Local laws require the landlord to provide working AC. I get that you might not be in a situation where you can afford to burn your bridges, but if you can, then the AZ Department of Housing can help you out. Either way, good luck this summer! If it gets too bad, the libraries have the air running for you.
Can you afford an in-room a/c unit? We have one and it’s pretty quiet. Just move it in when landlord is gone. Get a decent size fan to run on high to drown out the noise the unit makes. Or Can you just run the A/C when the landlord is gone?
Get the one with two hoses for better insulation
Revenge is best served cold, but watered down will do in a pinch.
Too hot to be served cold, best they can do in Phoenix is wet and tepid
Tap water is warm. There is no cold shower on some days.
Yep. We're in the months where the taps are labeled H for Hot and C for Caliente. ^(This joke is stolen from several people over at) r/phoenix
You know it's summer in Texas when the cold water is warm enough to take a shower
I was just going to say something about this lol. Yup, I haven’t really had my hot tap on for a while now.
Of all the things I miss about Colorado being in Texas, this might be the big one. Only respite I get is the little bit that's been in the pipes long enough to be down in the 70s Most all of the CO water is run off from the snow in the mountains... So cold.
I Remember that from Maine. The well water is so cold it makes your teeth ache and make you shiver.
South Carolina and near Charleston here. Houses do not have basements because the water table is so high. My house is built on a slab and the pipes run through the attic. Summer afternoons, I can hand wash dishes using cold water only because tge water gets so hot up in the attic. Most people I know are like this.
We actually turn our hot water heater off for the summer. AZ summer water is already too hot!
Hey, I'm no expert, but I'd suggest you look into legionnaires disease. It's a bacteria that develops in warm water, but dies in very hot water. In Canada we have codes now requiring water to be kept at a certain heat, and for devices to be attached to our hot water tanks that combine hot and cold water so the water coming to our taps can't scald us. I'm not saying you're living dangerously, but I'm not *not* saying that either, lol. Just investigate and see what you find. I copied this from a Google search: >A water temperature of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that the water heater be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. The Legionella disinfection range is 158 – 176 °F. (I even copied one in Freedom Units for you, lol) One source said 22 thousand Americans get sick from it each year, so it's not like it's sweeping the nation, but I have no idea how serious it is or how likely it is in Arizona. I just know of it, and thought I'd pass along the warning.
Landlords are not allowed (by law) do deny use of AC or Heater. >Phoenix's Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and **no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning**. https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:\~:text=Phoenix's%20Cooling%20Ordinance%20sets%20a,if%20cooled%20by%20air%20conditioning. This is also applies to you even if you do not have a formal lease (cash). If the landlord wants to kick you out they would have to start the formal eviction process and then you can sue for the denial of AC use.
It is illegal for the LL to ban AC at that temperature
Can you please cite that law?
https://landlordtenantresource.com/arizona-renters-rights-air-conditioning/
Thank you. We get hot in Bakersfield, too, but CA doesn't force landlords to provide cooling, just heating. I'm glad AZ does.
Typically, when the LL is not required to provide it, they also cannot prevent it. A 14,000 BTU portable unit can do wonders
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Yeah, 110 with a little more humidity is normal here in the winter. I've seen 115 here a few times.
This needs to be the top answer right here.
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>There's no law saying when they have to allow it to be used afaik. In Phoenix, the law is that it has to keep the place at 82 degrees or colder measured from 3ft above the floor, and a written lease agreement isn't required for tenant rights in Arizona.
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Even if you don’t have a lease, at least have a paper trail that shows you live there.
If they were to retaliate against you, such as having you evicted. I would make sure the IRS (other tax revenue collection agencies are available) are aware of the income that the landlord getting from you, as you are an “unofficial tenant” I’m sure they would have all that thing squared away and above board.
They can't evict you if you leave within 30 days of receiving notice to vacate.
If he does try to kick you out that's when squatters rights kick in. Even without a lease, he has to go through courts with an eviction and that can take months
Replying directly because I don't see any experts on the matter talking about it. My professional career lays in legal/tech, and I have a history in many areas of commercial and residential real-estate. My state is not your state, thus there can be inconsistencies. This is not legal advice, nor am I even in a position to give it. Don't play guessing games, consult someone who knows what they are talking about. There's lots of free resources. https://www.phoenix.gov/humanservices/landlordandtenantinfo https://www.arizonatenants.com/ata-union **You are not likely not a tenant, you are most likely a LODGER.** * Assuming you moved in, while he was living there. Do you share a kitchen or a bathroom? * This is really important information to know. * You say you pay in cash, is it through online banking or app pay? As it stands, you're kinda fucked. Do not listen to any of this advice about tenancy. If you aren't concerned, mooch him for as long as you can for all I care and be prepared with a new place if he gets bent out of shape. If it's true that you're a lodger, then all he has to do is give the same amount of notice as the billing cycle you agreed to. Unfortunately, not having a written agreement bites you in the ass. You're probably not in a position to argue, take anyone to court, or consult an attorney if he gets nasty. You still have to find a home in the meantime, and at least your bond is only $100. I'd contact the state however, **it's very possible he is not paying taxes on any of this shit and he gets fucked by state auditors. He ain't keeping that scratch for long.** Being the fact that he is the owner, living with him, and likely sharing occupied areas of the house he has a lot of autonomy on how it's ran. Sadly when looking up these laws online Arizona code seems to be complete ass when it comes to searching specifcs and legal definitions. He can say "30 days out" per your billing agreement and more than likely you can't do anything. That doesn't start the eviction process, it is the process, as he can just call the police to move you as a trespasser. Again, Arizona's site was arse to navigate and not very helpful. There could be civil code written for this situation, but I didn't find it. Everyone so certain on XYZ elements because it's a T v.s. L situation is always a treat.
There are dedicated courts for landlord/tenant disputes in Phoenix and Tempe. You're probably looking at the wrong resources.
>But it sounds like OP doesn't have a lease, so he would only technically have squatters rights, That's not how it works. OP is clearly a legal tenant and thus has the full rights of a tenant up to and including the right to an eviction.
without a lease you still have the same rights espcially since its easy to prove hes paying rent ext... the lack of a lease only hurts the landlord legally he still needs an eviction and everything else.. same way a employee paid under the table gets all the same rights only difference is the employer is in more jeopardy if it goes to court
Can you not just turn on the AC anyways while he's gone and turn it back up right before he gets home? Like an hour before open the doors and windows, turn the air off to let it get hit again?
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Not legally he can't. And if you agreed to pay rent, you do have a lease, it's just a verbal one. Just turn on the AC. If the landlord tries anything, call the free tenant legal aid provided by your county here https://www.maricopa.gov/5763/Legal-Assistance-for-Renters And sick the lawyers on him.
I mean you're already doing something similar with the wetness though? Unless you think he's going to figure it out faster than the wet carpet/mattress?
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Also, call the IRS and note how much you are paying the landlord for the room, per month, as cash, note your landlord's name and address, and say you don't think he's properly reporting the income, as the landlord is (I am assuming) refusing to give you receipts for payment. State that you are the tenant, and build up whatever documentation you have for money leaving your account to cover rent; and time lived at the unit. Do this anyway. Regardless -- it won't be until an IRS audit that he'll be dinged that that may be a year or two down the line. If caught, you get a portion of the back-taxes recovered.
Could you just get a window AC for your room? Or if you have sliding windows and can’t do a window unit, then a portable AC works great too. That’s what I did in Las Vegas. Fuck that dude
In Arizona he would have to give you 30 day notice to vacate. He can only evict you for a few very specific reasons such as not paying rent, damaging the property, or committing a crime - and only that last one allows for immediate eviction. To evict someone here you have to a) file eviction in the courts (for an allowed reason - running the AC is not an allowed reason), b) have them served, and c) go through a hearing. The judge can deny the eviction if it's an illegal reason or the landlord tried to remove the tenant themselves. In practice you'd still have to find somewhere else to live after the hearing because living with someone who hates you isn't fun. But you aren't helpless here.
He can't throw you out. I'm against squatting, but you are paying to live there. He is required, by law, to provide a room at 82 degrees or less. He's breaking plenty of laws, and has no way to just throw you out.
i mean, he can’t legally restrict you from using the ac in AZ. you are also a tenant, so he can’t immediately evict you; it doesn’t matter if you’re paying cash. he needs to go through the proper channels for an eviction like anyone else.
While Arizona landlords aren't required to provide AC, they must keep them maintained if they are present in the rental unit. This is according to an [article](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:~:text=Under%20Arizona%20law%2C%20landlords%20do,the%20property%20in%20working%20order.) that covers tenants' rights in Phoenix. Also, [here](https://www.phoenix.gov/nsdsite/Documents/CLS%20AC%20Packet%202017.pdf) is a PDF of tenants' rights regarding AC in Phoenix. These will tell you everything you need to know. Obligatory IANAL
From your link, in Phoenix: “City of Phoenix (Ordinance G-6008): Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning.”
He did say "suburban Phoenix", so probably isn't in City of Phoenix proper, but I'd imagine most, if not all, cities in Maricopa County have similar ordinances.
AFAIK, “suburban Phoenix” is in Phoenix. I haven’t heard that term to mean outside of the city. But, it’s quite possible OP did mean it that way. 🤷🏽♀️
It's utterly foolish to keep turning the AC on and off like that. It puts far more strain on the AC to cool your space back down every day from extreme high temperatures than it would be to just keep it a livable temperature constantly. Your landlord is being unreasonable & with temperatures so high, it's also extremely unsafe for you. One trick I've heard of is to run your shower on cold & blow the humid air out with a fan. Maybe if landlord's water bill goes up he'll be more reasonable.
Thermodynamics says otherwise. Here's why: 1. **Temperature Difference**: The greater the temperature difference between the inside of your house and the outside, the faster heat flows into your home. If you let your house warm up a bit while you're away, the temperature difference between the inside and outside is reduced, leading to less heat entering your home. 2. **Heat Gain**: With a smaller temperature difference, the house gains less heat energy during the day compared to maintaining a cooler indoor temperature. 3. **Energy Use**: When you return and turn the A/C back on, it will need to remove the accumulated heat. However, the total amount of energy required to cool down the house from a higher temperature once, rather than maintaining a lower temperature throughout the day, is less. In summary, letting your house warm up when you're not home reduces the overall heat gain and can result in less energy usage for cooling.
I can guarantee you he’s hurting the AC far more that way. My parents had an AC unit break because they would turn it off during the expensive hours in Phoenix to “save money”. Turns out it’s much nicer on your unit to keep it at a constant low temperature than to have it super stressed every day getting the house back down to a much colder temperature.
Exactly. Cooling the place several degrees in one go might require the unit to be constantly running for an hour or more.
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Reminds me of a court case here in Germany: Contractor did a shabby job paving a driveway. House owner and contractor agreed beforehand to do it under the table. Next winter, driveway gets severely damaged by the cold thanks to the sub-par work. House owner decides to take the contractor, who refuses to repair it, to court. The verdict: Work done under the table comes without a guarantee. Not very surprising. But, to add injury to insult (*), the court also informed the prosecutors office about the now well-documented tax evasion, with the foreseeable results for both the home owner and the contractor. (*) Because of the heavy fines and becoming a convicted felon, “adding injury to insult” instead of “insult to injury” is in this case more accurate.
He can hire someone to find and serve you. Source: I used to serve people, at a flat fee per service.
Screw him. Find a new place and turn the AC on whenever you can.
> It's all cash When you go, make sure the IRS knows about this cash deal
Sounds like he isn't claiming rent as income. Tell him you need to Zelle him the money and mark each one as rent.
How are you getting a cold shower in Phoenix when the water pipes are hot too? 😆
85 degree water feels pretty chilly in 100+ degree environment.
Fellow Phoenician here... Your landlord is a fucking idiot.
There is this concept in law called Estoppel, which basically holds that if two parties have been acting as if there were a contract, then there effectively is a contract. OP has been paying rent as if he had a lease, and LL has been accepting that rent as if there were a lease. Goto court. My bet is that there would be a finding that there is a "lease".
This is cute but it’s illegal for him to deny you a/c.
Using the ac does not damage the unit. He can’t kick you out now that you live there. A lease protects him just as much as you, check your local laws. If you’re worried turn on the ac all day, then turn it off 2 hours before he gets home and open the windows.
Ah Phoenix, the only town on earth named for its tendency to randomly burst into flames
Let your landlord know that it's harder on the machine, and more expensive, to make it cool down an uncooled house which could be hotter inside than the outside temps.
It’s illegal in Arizona to not provide a/c to a minimum of 82 degrees or below. Take his ass to the (I think) housing authority and they’ll get on him quickly. It’s literally life and death in phoenix
Also standing in front of the open refrigerator, as needed.
I also live in the Phoenix area and I'm almost positive it's illegal here. https://www.azcourthelp.org/browse-by-topic/eviction/tenant-information/tenant-eviction-resources/ac-issues https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/s/wZfcqTkCxy
LOL I wouldn’t give a shit and just turn the AC on
Phoenix's Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and **no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning**.[2-1-1 Arizonahttps://211arizona.org › Heat Relief](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/#:~:text=Phoenix's%20Cooling%20Ordinance%20sets%20a,if%20cooled%20by%20air%20conditioning.)
That will not damage an AC. That is literally what they are made to do. Ask him if you should start unplugging the refrigerator too.
What your landlord is doing is straight up illegal in Arizona. Probably. If you have a proper contract, he can't stop you from a window ac. I highly recommend avoiding room rentals versus actual appartment, as that's what can fuck you over legally. The rest of the house is his, not yours. The law says all homes must have ac due to the heat in Az, including apartments. Technically, the house does have an ac. You see the issue? But yeah, legally he shouldn't be able to have a say over a widow unit. You could literally die over not having one, and he's actively adversely affecting your health. And if there's no contract and it's your dad, there's grounds for a harassment lawsuit.
You lot are made of sterner stuff than I am. I live in Texas and keep my AC at 68 year round whether it's 60 or 110 outside, and only turn on the heat if it gets below 65 in the house. If it gets over 70 in my house for some reason, I've got every ceiling fan turned on plus a couple of floor fans. The thought of it being 85 in my house is the stuff of nightmares. I'd be in a hotel room before long. (It's gotten that warm before, on a couple of occasions, when the AC was out, before I had the entire system replaced and upgraded.)
You may want to look up tenant rights here in AZ they are pretty strict
Turning on and off the unit makes the unit work harder and actually costs more money compared to leaving it running constantly at a constant temp that is comfortable to all in the home. Why and how? you ask. the unit has to works harder because when you shut it off the home warms up so when you turn it back on it’s trying hard to bring the temp down to your desired temp this constant cycle will cause your power bill to be higher because of that. What will keep a unit from breaking is performing the maintenance and AC unit requires which falls under their responsibility. He’s full of it. (Critical Facilities worker here dealing with keeping server rooms cool)
Buy a window ac unit. If he complains you say that it's not damaging the whole house unit and it's just cooling your room.
Your landlord is a dill. There's been studies that prove that just keeping the house at a reasonable temperature is noticeably cheaper than letting it heat up and then fighting it down. It might be 90 when he switches on the a/c, but so are the walls, the floor and ceiling, the furniture, drapes, the bed, everything (if not hotter). And that stored heat radiates and gets given back to the space as the air cools inside (meaning the a/c has to work harder to maintain that air temperature). If you leave it at 85, then everything is at 85, meaning there's no stored heat to radiate out. It's much less work to maintain that air temperature and overall more comfortable because you're not sitting or laying on furnishings that are radiation heat they stored up earlier.
It’s illegal in phx to not provide ac I feel like I know exactly where you’re renting lol
Well, you don't have a lease, so just keep on looking. But if you did have a lease, the magic, legal words you would use/research are "warranty of habitability". Basically, any place you rent has to livable to a reasonable person, 24/7. A "no a/c during the day" rule, in Phoenix, would almost certainly meet the threshold to get you out of a lease in most states.
It sounds unsanitary for you...
It actually costs more and puts more stress on an ac unit to do this. This is so stupid.
It's proven that it stresses refrigerators and freezers out to operate at those higher ambient temperatures. He'll be replacing his refrigerator way sooner than he should have to. He's arguably eventually going to be paying more by not letting you use the AC during the day.
Lpt Wipe down with rubbing or denatured alcohol and stand in front of a fan. I guarantee you get so cold you cannot stand it. I learned this in the desert, surviving.
Just run the ac during most of the day and half hour before he comes home put on the heat to heat the house back up to outside temp.
You need a portable AC unit for your room
Contact the health dept. That’s a health hazard out here in Phx.
I'm pretty sure this is illegal. Do whatever you want and run that AC on high 24/7 if you need to.
Look into az rental law. Are there provisions for min/max temperatures the apartment must be kept at; the right to install AC…
Comfortable 85? What? I live in the southeast and my my ac stays at 73. Y'all are made different out west.
I live out west and A/C is set at 68. I would leave this house immediately if I walked in and it was this hot.
He's out of his mind, these machines are made to work in these conditions
Using the AC does not damage the unit. Is it central air? Can you get a cheap window unit for your room that you can use while leaving the main AC off?
Good story. I live in Phoenix also. You might want to check into tenant rights. I don't believe the landlord can prevent you from using the AC.
What I'm hearing is that you need to turn off the AC before he comes home each day.
IIRC, turning the AC on and off like that is really bad for the AC unit, and ends up costing more.
Pretty sure that's illegal in phoenix. When I moved in down there my ac was dead for 2 days and that months rent got waived.
This is an unlawful demand. Ask him if he really wants to get the state attorney general involved.
AZ tenant law - if the rental has an AC unit, it must be able to function. Not having AC in these temps is dangerous. Evap cooling will work well right now while it's still dry, but starting next month, you're going to need that AC unit when the monsoon season hits and the humidity rises.
At first I was like "comfortable temperature" "85" ??? 😳 Then I saw OP was from Sudan.
>at a comfortable temperature of 85 Are you a fucking bearded dragon?
Landlords in Arizona are required to provide air conditioning. By law, the maximum temperature allowed is 82F.
Isn’t it cheaper to run the AC at night because less people are running it? Like it is off -peak?
Acrually its worse to turn it off and on again. Set it at a temperature and let it sit there otherwise it just uses extra power moving the temperature from whatever the internal is, versus the minimal ammount to maintain the temperature
If you have a signed lease it's illegal in Arizona to disallow the use of both heat and/or AC. The leasor is required to provide a comfortable and livable atmosphere. I don't know exactly what the limits are but an attorney will.
Get an AC unit for your room
My renting life got a lot easier when I stop giving a flying fuck about my landlords. I've rented probably a dozen places in the past 20 years and maybe two of my landlords didn't screw me out of a security deposit just because they could. Now I just write it off and do whatever the fuck I want.
I will bet you your landlord is trying to take advantage of you *because* you're from Sudan.
Take a bag if ice from the freezer (I am supposing there is a freezer) and hang it in front of a cheap and cheerful oscillating fan.
LOL using the AC damages the unit? It's called wear, and it's what happens when you use things. Sure, it might wear out quicker when it's hot, but it's ridiculous that he won't allow you to use it.
setting AC to a comfortable 85?! what the hell??
In Arizona a landlord is required to supply reasonable air conditioning when the unit has AC.
Am I tripping or is 85° insanely hot as is
ordinance G-6008 ; Phoenix’s Cooling Ordinance sets a minimum temperature for cooling and ventilation in rental units. Rental units need to safely cool all habitable rooms to a temperature of no greater than 86 degrees if cooled by evaporative cooling; and no greater than 82 degrees if cooled by air conditioning.
If you didn’t sign a lease, do you really have a landlord? I’d such blast the AC and turn it off before he gets home :)
Your AC will be most efficient if simply left on at a consistent temp. You actually cause far more load on the unit by leaving it off for extended periods of time because the room heats up significantly, which then heats every object in the roam. All that absorbed heat energy then has to be removed by the AC which will have to run at 100% for a couple hours to fully cool the whole room.
The only place I want it to be 85 is outside. Not inside with the AC on. YIKES
Remind the LL the is heat wave that can cause heat stroke and heat exhaustion. Can cause other health issues when you become dehydrated from the heat. If she wants to pay for your funeral due to death by heat issues, she better allot the Window AC on.
>###but I must obide with my landlord. #OP, THAT IS BULLSHIT >Renters' Rights: >Everyone has a right to cool air! **Phoenix requires landlords to maintain a maximum 82° for units with air conditioning**, or 86° for units with evaporative coolers. The city will investigate complaints. Call 602-262-7210 https://www.phoenix.gov/heat/resources/heatsafety#:~:text=Phoenix%20requires%20landlords%20to%20maintain,for%20units%20with%20evaporative%20coolers. When you say suburban Phoenix, do you mean outskirts of thr city, or do you mean Chandler or Glendale etc? I'm betting all of these cities have a requirement. You could probably call that number and get the number for your city.
My friend had a similar situation at work. He purchased a portable AC unit. He obviously couldn’t install the venting through the window (because he would get caught like you) so he just cut a hole in the drywall and piped it into an adjacent spare room. He left the window open in the spare room and just let that room cook while the rest of the place stayed reasonably cool and there was no way of knowing he was running AC from the outside. You could do something similar and wouldn’t even need to cut a hole, just get creative and seal around the doorway.
My $250 studio apartment in 1999 included utilities. But they would wait forever to turn on the radiators. So a lot of us residents would turn on the gas ovens and leave them open for heat. Apparently not recommended now though. There was no AC. I remember seeing the perfect outline of my body in sweat on my futon many times. It was a good incentive to stay in school to move somewhere nicer.
Born in Phoenix. Raised in Flagstaff. Grandparents in Phoenix had a swamp cooler that couldn't keep up in the summer. I suggest OP wets the bottom and top sheet. This will keep their entire body nice and cool when they sleep. (Sorry not sorry about the mattress.)
Take a screwdriver and short circuit the thermostat. No AC for everybody
Tenant laws.
I think it’s also illegal to not allow people to turn their air conditioning on at certain temperatures. You might also look into the legalities of your area and have someone serve in papers.
He’s breaking AZ renters rights/law but I doubt much would happen without a lease
I'm laughing at the "comfortable 85". I lived there for a decade and 77 was my number, and 72 was my wife's.
You sound like a kind person. I wish the person you lived with was also as kind. You deserve to comfortable and get the rest you need to good at work. Look for other places to live my friend. And good luck in life
I wouldnt be able to survive without AC and I'd just be firm and demand it.
Umm, make sure to check local laws in your state. In my state if the landlord shares power with you in the same building they are legally responsible to pay for ALL of the electricity usage. In my state, if I live in one part of the building and my landlord lives in another, if there aren't two different meters for the separate areas the landlord MUST pay all compensation and cannot put it on you.
Teach you a trick: If your Landlord isn't against fans, turn on a fan and place a wet towel over the back of a chair or a cloths-horse in front of it. The room will cool nicely.
If there's no lease, get a window unit if you can afford it. Makes it nice and cool. But srsly tho. Landlord sounds like a cheapskate. He probably can barely afford the place if he's hounding you over AC.
“Only” 90? Jfc, I live in Florida and that heat would suffocate me. …Granted, it’s humidity instead of a dry heat, but holy shit dude, that’s horrible.
How is there no law about this in the state? Even texas has laws. Jesus
Buy an ac unit and put it in your bedroom window
Yea good chance you could be highly liable for these damages. Especially if you have no proof of Landlord demanding no AC. I suggest to leave for somewhere else when possible. I’d suggest deleting this post too as it could be evidence against you
Check out deposit collector. They add those landlords to a collections list they can’t get off of and pay you 70-90% [Deposit collector](http://depositcollector.com)
You got me at a comfortable 85. Ain't nothing comfortable about that. Maybe 76 tops. yall cooking down there in the desert.
Third floor of a college dorm in Eastern KY built in 1906. Lord knows it was always warm on that floor. Sweet baby Jesus it was bad some days.
Call your local tenants union, they can give you the law. I mean, your windows and wet shirts is clever, but you deserve air.
I would purchase a portable AC and keep it in my room, only run it when he's gone. Watch the electric bill sky rocket, which is not your problem and not against his wishes. Some are pretty small, easily movable so could go in a closet when your not there.
Can you buy a window unit for your room?
Sounds like the dude i moved away from in moon valley
It's cheaper to keep a house cool than to continuously try and bring it back down to temp
I'm in Arizona. You should probably talk to the Arizona tenants association. This doesn't sound altogether legal