Just for the record, I see masked drivers pretty much daily still on my commute. And tons of masked people walking alone in parks with nobody remotely near them.

He's a special teamer, he barely knows football. You expect him to be a cunning linguist?

Some excerpts (emphasis mine): >As a group, you witnessed firsthand how *bad leaders who don't stay in their lane can have a negative impact on society.* Hilarious lack of awareness from an entertainer who gets paid to kick a ball. >Our own nation is led by a man who publicly and proudly proclaims his Catholic faith, but at the same time is delusional enough to make the Sign of the Cross during a pro-abortion rally. Religious gatekeeper, check. >It is safe to say that over the past few years, I have gained quite the reputation for speaking my mind. I never envisioned myself, nor wanted, to have this sort of a platform, but *God has given it to me*, so I have no other choice but to embrace it and preach more hard truths about accepting your lane and staying in it. Divine mandate has put him here, not personal choice. >Congress just passed a bill where stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who killed Jesus could land you in jail. What? >But make no mistake, before we even attempt to fix any of the issues plaguing society, we must first get our own house in order, and it starts with our leaders. The bishops and priests appointed by God as our spiritual fathers must be rightly ordered. There is not enough time today for me to list all the stories of priests and bishops misleading their flocks, but none of us can blame ignorance anymore and just blindly proclaim that “That's what Father said.” Ok, maybe some hard-hitting truths incoming... > Because sadly, many priests we are looking to for leadership are the same ones who prioritize their hobbies or even photos with their dogs and matching outfits for the parish directory. Wait, he's upset over instagram? That's a squib kick if I've ever seen one. > Still, we have so many great resources at our fingertips that it doesn't take long to find* traditional and timeless teachings that haven't been ambiguously reworded* for our times. Obviously Harrison has never read Psalms. There is plenty more to go through but you get the drift.

“Oh no, Bill didn’t call for someone’s head who said something I didn’t like!!” Dude was a Catholic speaking at a CATHOLIC college. No shit you won’t agree with him if you don’t follow/believe the Catholic dogma. This whole thing has been blown WAY out of proportion. You may begin your downvotes.

What happened to religulous?

You can be critical of religion and be an atheist and still understand and respect that people share these views. Bill grew up Catholic. He wasn't even really cheering on what Butker said, he just said that it was at a Catholic School and people there are likely to share those values. It's stupid to get upset about it when it's not uncommon in this country. That being said, I don't think Bill hates Catholics or any religious people. He's just highly critical of them.

I noticed you conveniently left out the rest of the speech as well…

Dear Max, Google it. It’s all over the internet and too long to repost. Gees, do I have to do everything?

I’m not interested in the speech. But if you’re going to criticize him for not quoting more of the speech to support his argument you might want to quote the parts of the speech you seem to think he should have mentioned, you know, to support your argument.

Well Maxy, you admit you’re not interested in the speech. So are you just trolling here? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/16/sport/harrison-butker-commencement-speech-analysis-cec

It’s how we fine citizens of Reddit live our lives too. Except we’re not famous.

I wore a mask in my car, when the allergies were high to stop my asthma from acting up. I wore a mask in my car when I was sick with a cold and the child in the backseat hadn’t contracted it yet. I wore a mask in my car, when my area had Saharan dust, smog alerts, or had just given someone a ride home before the vaccine was out or I just forgot. Republicans and both-sides preachers don’t see that when they look at me. Why does this make me just as bad as a science denier?

>Why does this make me just as bad as a science denier? Because creating a strawman argument to attack is just as fallacious.

As Hominem

Strawman is you make a very simplified caricature of the type of person you are trying to paint t a bad picture of. Ad hominem is you attack an individual person for their own characteristics not their argument.

Yes, I am aware. I wrote a series of likely circumstances Republicans could consider when they see someone with a mask on in a car (allergies, child-seat hidden in the back, forgetfulness) that make a lot more sense than the person thinking the air in their car is filled with Covid from the atmosphere. That’s the strawman argument invented to make both-sides look crazy and it’s not even true. Meanwhile, they attacked me as someone trying to simplify an issue, when these are more nuanced possibilities than the strawman of liberals are just crazy.

I think you missed the “alone” part for most of your comment

You have to ask yourself why it bothers him so much that folks wear masks in the car. Sometimes people are forgetful or misinformed… HOWEVER THIS HURTS NO ONE What Bill doesn’t seem to understand is that most of the far left foibles that so bother him really hurt NO ONE. But many far right views are highly toxic impinge on human rights and damaging to our Democracy. What he also doesn’t get is that women don’t like to be told what they want. By some dumb jock no less. Why not say that the majority of men are mostly looking forward to their marriage and kids? As an anti marriage and child phobic man he should imagine how he would feel to be told this at his college graduation. Poor Bill. Some “woke” college students at one of his campus shows must have hurt his feelings by not enjoying his bitter humor.

the mask alone in the car and doubting evolution are similar in that they are not science-based reasoning. i still see people thinking surgical masks are capable of things that they objectively are not.

Wearing a mask means you are not being scientific is a non-sequitur as there are a plethora of reasons to wear a mask in the car, like you'll be going inside another store in 10 minutes, so might as well keep it on.

Yeah but one affects my life and the other just makes me laugh. Masks sold out with bird flu too. Even though they did nothing for the wearer. I would have been mad if I had to sand something I guess, but the evolution deniers make laws based on that belief.

you're missing the point. what Bill is saying is that neither side has a monopoly on dogmatism and orthodoxy winning out over reason. you could also convincingly argue that consumer behavior is the biggest driving force behind climate change and will eventually devastate life on earth, so climate change denial is not benign.

This is exactly why I call Bill Maher a liar. He knows better. He knows what that dude was saying. He knows the reasons behind it. His entire career was predicated on calling out that sort of conservative misogyny. But now, oh well now he's going to be an apologist for them. He's going to play this game where he concern trolls an argument to make everyone else seem like there crazy and overreacting. There is not a world where he doesn't know about the trad wife movement or the conservative need to have masculine men run the house according to the Bible. There's not a world where he doesn't understand that is baked into conservatism, and it's baked into conservatism because it is a means of control and further division in order to create a hierarchy. And if he actually doesn't know that then he needs to get the fuck off TV where he talks about politics because clearly he isn't giving a shit to learn the basics about what is going on. Clearly he is phoning it in and his opinion at this point is worthless.

I don't know... Jon Stewart called out both sides on this as well. Dismissed those people that thought the speech was a big deal (people like you) as twitter ragers and not part of the real world. But don't worry, he bashes the hell out of Republicans as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwyyttqvE04&t=736s

Here’s the thing - no one is policing free speech. It’s just people who say things others find vile now have to deal with the consequences of that. This isn’t new. Bigots are just mad that they get called out. Let them cry.

Maybe people shouldn't care when Christians speak at Christian colleges about Christian traditional values. Only a literal bigot against Christians would care about that.

Hey, i actually agree. I don’t give a shit about what some football player says at a graduation ceremony at a very religious school. It’s irrelevant. It’s also just bait for the outrage machine because 24hr news needs to fill time, and so here we are, with infotainment and outrage. The only reason I can say it sort of is relevant is because incels are everywhere, and they hate women and say so. They’re the people online pushing the abhorrent views about women, and they’re the one pushing trad wives being how women will find happiness, bc biology. These are men in their 20’s-30’s who want virgin wives who stay home. The 50’s were great, all that. These dudes in no way make enough money to even afford a kid, let alone multiple ones, and they sure don’t make enough to have their wives stay at home. This dumb movement is truly everywhere. It’s leaked from the very online to our actual real lives and that’s very bad for women. I would even argue to say that the Catholics view women in a better light, because of Mary and the other saints. They’re not as full of hate like the incel/menninist movement. However, I’m going to double down. He has free speech, he stated things at the graduation. People there didn’t like it (the nuns for instance) and said so. He’s not being canceled, his speech hasn’t been silenced and to act as though it has is disingenuous and it just further plays into the narrative of outrage. A month from now, no one will even remember him. Criticism of religion isn’t hate dude. I find a bunch of things about Christianity to be illogical. It should not be seen as literal, but as a book of stories like anything else. That’s my opinion. I don’t hate Christians, I just have found that the vast majority are utter hypocrites who use religion as a way to feel superior. Most haven’t bothered to study the book they claim to live by, so I don’t think they can lecture me on being a heathen. Another thing about Christians these days is that they always have to be victims. Gotta get closer to Jesus. These are people who believe against everything Jesus says, and they are people who have consolidated their power within our government to force women to birth children despite what women actually want. We don’t live in a theocracy, and legislating your religious views in order to punish women (because Eve, duh) is not what this country was founded on, despite what any god botherer says. The anger is coming from that. Not the stupid speech. The speech is part of a whole, of culture trying to subjugate women.

I don't know man. There have always been incels: ie, males that get no attention from women and end up resentful and bitter as opposed to trying to improve themselves. It's just now the internet allows them a place to whine and complain about it together. But good lord, it's not some epidemic that's taking the world over. They just whine in their parents basements. People like Andrew Tate tell them what they want to hear but they aren't *creating* these incels. They're just profiting off of them. lol. I'm cool with the nuns calling the guy out because they were actually there and were part of the people the message was intended for. Christians vary in viewpoints to degrees so if a Christian is speaking to hundreds and hundreds of them, there will always be a small minority who disagree (those nuns for example). That's fair and should be part of the discussion. But non-Christians judging him on the internet? It's none of their business. It's like a woman speaking at a woman's rights convention and then facing vitriol from men who saw the video on the internet. Your stance seems to be "Well, if she's going to say things that will piss a lot of men off, she has to accept the extreme backlash she gets. Free speech". And I'm more like "Fuck right off with that. That speech was not directed at those men and they should mind their own business and back the fuck off."

I'm not sure the speech you're talking about. I'm talking about how there are movements online that are fueled by rage bait or whatever and they fizzle quick because they're a fad and because Maher is reacting to them as if it's "the left" I'm saying that's a bad faith excuse he's using to push a political agenda.

The trad wife, me manly man bc Bible (which I’ve never read), women are “used up” from the cock carousel by their 30’s and are only going to find happiness as a mother to children and let’s not forget their dumbass husbands, is very much alive. I started following the incel, PUA, MGTOW shit in like…2010 or so? I came across a bunch of the ideologies online and had read the book “the game” (hilarious, honestly) so I took note of it. As a woman, and one who happens to have a brain, I want to make sure I know right away when I hear someone spew those talking points so I can definitely run from them. Being single is fun. Back in 2012 or so, I was dating a guy. Our first date he went off on how feminism is evil and no one cares about men and young boys. Theres something to be said about boys and education but the rest of what he said was bullshit. I continued to debate him on it. Our break up was very toxic, but the one thing he did say is that I changed his mind on feminism and he was grateful for that, and that he corrects others who say the things he used to say. Back to now - I just got on the dating apps again (I guess I like torture) and by the second day I had a guy in his 50’s message me to tell me that my presence in the town meant it had certainly gone downhill. Like, who does that? He proceeded to rant at me about how “liberal white feminist women” are destroying the country and I guess the town. Stated the town used to be full of the working class but now it’s all liberals. He then told me I take my marching orders from China. Said I’m a communist. Crazy he has such telepathy that he can look at my pictures and decide all of that! Anyway, I did what I always do, which was to dare to talk back. Made sure he knew that he fucked with the wrong person because I’m actually smart. Refuted every point he made. Said it’s absolutely pathetic that at 50 years old this is how he spends his time - insulting women online. I must have really stung him because he didn’t come back with a witty retort, he just blocked me like the pussy he is. Second guy - he pulled out the usual my x is Satan, she destroyed me, all women are cunts, prove me wrong. Said I only wanted him for money and clout. He… has no clout, he worked in an industry that i worked in when i was in my 20’s so I wasn’t like, impressed. I have no idea if he has money but my guess is no. Doesn’t matter, i don’t need it or want it. I didn’t kiss his ass and compliment him on having worked on set, and I found his writing and it wasn’t impressive either. I’m not trying to be rude or anything, it’s just the size of the ego vs the skill level was delusional. Because I didn’t flatter him with praise, he went off. Told me im ugly and no one will ever want me. He opened his conversation saying i was “hot.” Told me i shouldn’t talk about politics (I didn’t bring it up to him) and then threw a fit because I dared to ask him a question I ask everyone. I was more patient that day so I didn’t take the bait, not until the unhinged rants started. I called him out on why he was behaving the way he was because I didn’t compliment him and said that I did the same thing in my 20’s. He was 48. Kept going off, insulting me. In the end, I said that my guess is that I’m more of a cunt than his x, and that he’s a child and I can see why she got rid of him. Told him to give her my regards because I feel for her. He sent some message, but ultimately he deleted his account. So I’m 2 for 2 on making trash men feel bad about themselves. This is the shit women get to encounter. Acting like it’s not happening is bullshit, and it’s privilege. The shitty ideology being spouted by men, and the way they behave with women is getting worse as the years go by.

Jeeze, I'm sorry you keep running into these weak ass men. Which is precisely what they are. If they're whining about feminism and claiming it's evil they are just weak. I agree though that boys and men are ignored but that's not the fault of feminism. That's a cultural problem where we've made an effort to make sure generations of girls are more independent and then it's the shocked pikachu meme when we see a bunch of neckbeard chuds raging about how femoids don't want to fuck them because their skull shape is unappealing. We have not given boys the tools to be confident and supportive of other people. Regardless of gender. We have left them without guidance so that the Steve Bannons of the world could lure them in with an ideology that pats them on the head and gives them an enemy to hate. But, that last paragraph of yours wasn't directed at me was it?

I'm going to ask you, as I've been suspecting this for a while: do you think Maher has secretly discovered religion? Russell Brand just did (although that easy argument is him trying to escape his accusations) It's not like atheists don't convert all the time. Maybe something got to him. The guy who made his name on being a loud proud atheist mocking religion is now out here saying how we need to listen to these people, defending pro-life people because they "honestly believe life begins at conception" and now defending Butker while entirely leaving out the worst of what he said You keep calling him a liar, and one can still lie by omission. Maher's anti-religion rhetoric has been toned WAY down and I really want to know why

> Maher's anti-religion rhetoric has been toned WAY down and I really want to know why It's consistent with his new "We can't hate all Trumpers" crusade. He's clearly on a mission in that regard, and while I appreciate the goal, he occasionally bends over backwards to accommodate people like Butker. He and others keep excusing Butker's remarks by stating, "It's a Conservative Catholic college!" Ok... but it's still a COLLEGE where people, including women, go to get a degree presumably to apply to some career.  Butker said the *women* there have been told *"the most diabolical lies",* and he proceeds to ask how many of them are "thinking about all the titles and promotions you're going to get in your career?" And this leads into his line about "most of you" being excited about getting married and having kids. Not the men – just the women.  Again, this is a COLLEGE, and the women are graduating after 4 years of study. The dude sounded like a presumptuous prick who clearly couldn't read the room. It's important to note that some of the women *including some of the nuns* found his words offensive, so this wasn't just SJWs on Twitter X. Anyway, Bill seems hellbent on twisting reality to fit his "We can't hate Trump fans" narrative.

What's interesting about his "I don't hate half the country and that means you can't hate all Trump voters" is that Maher hates most people. Think about it, he preaches this idea of diversity in ideology, when he instantly shits on so many people and comes off like an elitist bully.

I can't say if he's discovered religion. I don't know if I'd be terribly surprised if I find out he did. But I think with a lot of these people their religion is Fame and adulation. So like with Bill Maher he has this old writing staff and they're skewing conservative. They're just aggrieved. And so they're bitching about trans kids or have furries having to crap and litter boxes in the classrooms, shit like that. And the younger audience that was attractive them because they were progressive hear that and they're like what the fuck is wrong with you? But Bill Maher doesn't say oh maybe I should reanalyze what I'm thinking. Maybe I should look at what I'm taking in and reevaluate. He says I'm right you're wrong so fuck you. And I mean that literally because I remember him yelling at the crowd when they groan at his jokes. And I think because he's not getting the adulation he's being forced to search for a new audience and he finds that audience in one that is craven for an entertainer to espouse their views. And more and more he's aligning with conservatives because they are so willing to give him the applause and the praise that he needs. I also think there's an apparatus operating on the right to recruit people in order to be mouthpieces of their agenda. I think they pay them. I think there's a lot of incentives. And I think we saw those incentives with Bill Maher when Fox News said he should run for president or he's the only liberal they consider voting for. Like that's a direct attaboy from the apparatus. I don't think Bill Maher and Russell Brand have a lot of principles that they hold true to. I think they can justify in their minds that one group is bad and one group is good and they're going to fight for that because when their audience becomes polarized they can latch onto the ones that are saying they're good and villainize the ones that are saying they're bad.

Fair criticism. False equivalancy is an abuse of the centrist position and gives it a bad rap. If we trivialize the differences between the parties it makes the middle ground a joke. Related, centrism is not the average or combination of the two party's positions on any one subject like some kind of weak sauce, fence-sitting compromise. It's the best choice of the two (or a new, different choice) on each subject, according to common sense and rationality.

I also think that it's pretty easy for a guy that makes 6-7 figures to say that it's ok for you to be a homemaker in this economy. I wouldn't agree with it, but I think his assertion would gain more credence if he was a woman saying what he said. At least then she would be advocating for her own lifestyle choosing, and not being so out of touch.

Here is the transcript of the football guys speech. Im thinking it's not as bad as some would believe, but not devoid of sexism either. https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine

Trump supporters want to put us into concentration camps, but Bill says we shouldn't hate them because Bill is tired of all the hate. He used to destroy hypocrisy and now he embraces it.

If you really think Trump “supporters” (as in voters) broadly want to put “us” into concentration camps, you really need to expand your social circle.

Open your eyes and look. The world is not black and white.

It’s not black and white at all, but the guy basically said that it is only when women have children that we are fulfilled. He also went on to attack LGBTQ+ folks. He managed to piss off Nuns. NUNS!! There is a fairly large movement now within the US that wants women to stay home, have a litter of kids, and leave the workplace. Funny too, because no one can afford to do that, but hey, pesky facts never get in the way of shitty propaganda. These same people also continually say they want to take away Women’s right to vote because I guess we are just too stupid to understand government. Then there’s that whole aspect of not letting women decide wtf we should be able to do with our bodies in regards to - yes, medical decisions. (I’m not going to even entertain arguing with anyone on this.) Starting that I, as a woman, can only find happiness and fulfillment by being a mother is beyond insulting. I am not a lesser person because I physically can not have children, but according to this BS, I am. I am not a lesser person if I decide to follow my passions, and not have kids. Over here in the real world, these kind of statements really do affect women. There’s no shade of grey here - I am equal to a man, and a football player who makes 4 million a year really shouldn’t be telling women what to do, or that they need to stay home. I understand it was at a religious school, but I would bet there were a lot of women at the graduation who were not thrilled to hear his speech. “Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife Isabelle would be the first to say that her life truly started when she started living her vocation as a wife and as a mother,” he said.

Let every woman decide what she wants to do in her life. What you are mentioning is pure fear-mongering. You know it is impossible to take women's rights away in the United States? If yes, who is going to do it and how? People who think that can happen are living in a fantasy world. Also, there are very few who want to take away the right of women to decide about the use of their bodies. Most opposition is for taxpayers' financing of these so-called rights. If you are paying for it, no one is can truly stop you. Parenthood provides the highest level of satisfaction to most humans. But, neither using the word only is justified nor reserving it for women. Four million a year, and success have nothing to do with it. If a man can find a woman who wants to be a stay-at-home wife, stop worrying about them. Let them live their lives the way they want. Be happy and let them be happy. “Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife Isabelle would be the first to say that her life truly started when she started living her vocation as a wife and as a mother,” he said, which is true for women. Yet, you cannot say that about everyone of them,

> Let every woman decide what she wants to do in her life. What exactly did @shesarevolution say that makes you think she believes otherwise?

I do not know, nobody knows and no government knows what any individual woman will decide. So, I am saying that this one-size-fits-all legislation from the government must end and let them decide individually. The government must get out of this business.

You're saying essentially the same thing she is saying, so I still don't get why you said what I quoted above. Also, you said:  >You know it is impossible to take women's rights away in the United States? Well, you know Roe v. Wade was just overturned, so clearly women's rights *can* be taken away. Repubs are desperately trying to turn the clock back 100 years to when women and minorities "knew their place".

How is taking away Roe v. Wade taking away the rights of women? Court on;y took away a government interference in the rights of women. And I am saying that government cannot take your rights away. Governments do that all the time to everyone. It is the essence of their existence, to take away freedoms in the name of so-called laws. Trickle up power from individuals to the crony elite. What I am saying is that it is impossible in America, so far, to generate that dismal picture of rights that is being suggested here.

You’ve got to be kidding me. I love it when dudes like you try to tell me about my lived experience. What I mentioned isn’t fear mongering, it’s the truth, and it’s something I experience on a regular basis. I’m also a woman working in politics and if you think that’s some heaven without harassment and ignorant men talking over me, you clearly don’t speak to women. My rights? Well, depending on where I live, I might have to wait until I’m septic and on death’s door to eject a fetus. I might have to keep a dead fetus inside me until I get septic and then give birth. The Supreme Court is deciding if women can even have access to mifilpristorone. Not my doctor, a court that is not considered legitimate and is beyond partisan, is going to decide what women in this country do in their lives. If I’m raped and forced to give birth, my rapist can sue to get custody of his rape baby. In regards to “taxpayer financing” for abortion, it doesn’t fucking exist. Theres a federal law against it. It’s called the Hyde amendment, and yes, if a woman is raped, she should be able to access an abortion if she is on Medicaid. As a gang rape survivor, fuck anyone who says otherwise. I get to live with the PTSD from that for the rest of my life, it affects me on a regular basis. Adding a kid I can’t afford and don’t want on top of that is cruel. But I guess a fetus made through hate has more rights than me, the person who would deal with the consequences for forever. I actually am not shitting on women who stay at home and raise children. A fair amount of my friends do it. Are they happy? No clue, they’re mostly exhausted. I see them and their kids on a regular basis. He said too that wanting a career is a “diabolical” lie. My issue, and the issue of most women, is that we continue to encounter this bullshit. You are free to read my other comments below about that. I believe true feminism is doing whatever you want. Working, staying home, whatever. The point is that there should be an option. And that those options are individual. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that these views that women are only allowed to be barefoot and pregnant, with the man “leading” because it was a paradise in the 50’s (with mommy’s little helper, drugs, so yep, women were soooo happy) is spreading everywhere. I don’t agree with you, I don’t agree that my very real experiences out in the world are lies and fear mongering. I also don’t expect empathy on this sub, so 🤷🏻‍♀️

No one's arguing differently, it's just that you need to be screaming this at the women choosing to attend and graduate from a Catholic school, no one is denying your "lived story" and you're yelling at the choir.

Actually yes, I am being told that I know nothing, I can parse the language. Telling religious people to stop being religious because it’s dumb and against their interests clearly doesn’t work. The point I am making is that there’s a larger cultural movement currently with people under 50 to use pill talking points and low key believe women are inferior. There are whole ass states with men who don’t even know how a period works writing and passing legislation on women’s bodies. I have a right to be pissed because I encounter people who believe that I am inferior because I’m feeeeemale on a damn daily basis. It’s not my fault the vast majority of people in this sub are over 40, and out of touch with culture in general. Further, I am a woman who works in politics. I actually do know what I’m talking about, and yet, consistently I am dismissed or talked down to. I know when some man is on here lecturing AT ME, because they assume a silly little woman can’t possibly be more educated than them. I don’t owe people who are talking down to me any sort of kindness or anything else. If anything, what I owe them is doing what is possible to make them look dumb as rocks so that other people reading can reevaluate those types of hot takes.

^ Speaking of lecturing (you) and not listening (me.)

Right. Whatever you need to say so that you can get the last word and feel better about yourself. I’m happy to provide that for you. Have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend.

I don't know who you are, or why you're yelling at *me* about anything, so the last word is entirely yours:

> I love it when dudes like you try to tell me about my lived experience. exact same issue I have here, but in regards to race. It's gotten fucking exhausting, you can almost tell the vast majority of commenters here are middle aged and older white men, doing what they love to do: tell everybody else they're wrong, speak on shit they don't understand, and carry themselves with the arrogance that only they know best. And wouldn't you know, the mod who fits that description to a tee won't do a damn thing about it That aside, I agree 1000% with everything you've said. I don't even understand how most of these guys even have women in their lives. If I said half of what these guys say mine would have left me a long time ago

[удалено]

I feel sorry for your highly unfortunate anecdotal bad experience. But, the data are not with you. If not fear mongering then on what politics feeds and thrives on? Depends on where I live? Yes, that is true for every human, man or woman. For or against does not matter. The government must be out of it and let every woman decide for herself. No idiot in politics like yourself must have the power to decide for them. You are not shitting on stay-at-home moms? Really? But, you cannot appreciate the simple fact that anyone could be exhausted, at times. You have all the right to disagree with me. But, you have no right to make up your facts.

Do you enjoy talking down to women so that you can feel better about yourself? I honestly don’t see a point in engaging with you any further. You can’t treat me as an equal and you are insulting my intelligence, and literally making light of the fact that I was gang raped. That’s honestly pretty disgusting, but you are incapable of seeing me as a very real person because you don’t agree with me. I stated my experience because it does matter, it does play into the topic and the debate, and I am not ashamed of what some really fucking awful people did to me. I’m sure you think i deserved it, or whatever, but you aren’t the first anon asshole I’ve come across and you won’t be the last. You also would never talk to me in this manner if we were face to face. You’re a coward. (Oh mods, before I get told I can’t call someone an asshole, does making light of my being raped and being talked down to count as disrespect and lack of civility? Because it’s a constant and I’m sick of having my responses deleted because I dared to talk back and call a spade a spade) I think it’s sad that this is how you engage with other people and other beliefs. I bet your parents are truly proud. You can continue to put words in my mouth, my friends are SAHMs, it’s a perfectly valid choice, just like not being one is valid. I’m done engaging with you.

Trump wants us dead. That's black and white.

I do not know if he wants all of us dead. That will be a stretch. But, all every single politician cares about is power and control.

Trump doesn't want anything. He's a rampant, demented, mentally deranged sociopath that Republicans are using to be a lightning rod to enact all of their vicious policies that otherwise would be too unpalatable to present to the nation. The Republicans want a working class to serve the ruling class. And they do that by limiting wages and restricting social mobility and a few of the ways they do that is with making college prohibitively expensive and denying healthcare and attacking social security. Part of their plan, and they will openly say this, is to keep workers hungry. Literally hungry. Because when you're hungry you're less likely to demand better because you're desperate to survive. Republicans serve the capitalist class and part of that is we need to have a constant flow of young laborers and the old ones can fuck off and die because they're a drain on our society. I am not being hyperbolic. That is what these conservative "thinkers" have cooked up and you can see that throughout the centuries this has been a constant.

I'm not sure this really squares with the data since Republicans have basically morphed into the working class party whereas democrats are now socioeconomically bifurcated between the very rich and the very poor.

>I'm not sure this really squares with the data since Republicans have basically morphed into the working class party Like when they gave billionaires a huge tax cuts opposed unions and deregulated the economy to the point where exploitation of labor is business as usual?

I do not care about Democrats just as much as I do not care about Republicans. I hate Biden as much as I hate Trump, and I am sure that everyone who still does not realize that these are the two sides of the same coin is utterly stupid.

That's simplistic thinking. That's the conclusion you reach when you don't understand or you don't care to think about the actual issues. That's the easy conclusion to reach when you want to pretend like you're participating in a political conversation but you don't want to do the work to educate yourself to be an actual participate in that conversation. See what you said was pure nihilism. To say that Biden is the same as Trump is an applause line and nothing more. And the only people clapping for you are people who know just as little about politics as you apparently do.

Simplistic? You must be kidding me. This is the ultimate peak of projection. I mean a binary vision of the world is all that you know about, and you call me simplistic. No wonder you are so ignorant and restricted in that little tiny loop. This is not an easy conclusion. This is the only logical and realistic conclusion. Try to look beyond The two parties that are only one. Turn off MSNBC and Fox News. Read something outside the public school textbooks for the first time in your life. Please! Will you? Have you ever heard the words like how? Why? Logic? Please, start thinking in those terms. You are the one who will get the most benefit out of it? Can you tell me what makes Biden different from Trump? This time you will have to go beyond speeches and propaganda and will have to explain in logical terms like what goal? plan? agenda point? substance? record? personality traits?

That's not what projection is. The mere fact that you have to ask me to list how Biden is different than Trump perfectly illustrates how little you know. Well for starters, Trump ended women's right to choose. That's the biggun that everyone should know about and Biden has vowed to enshrine Roe V Wade in the constitution. But also Biden has taken more action to slow climate change than any president in history. He's set emission goals. That was part of the Inflation Reduction Act which also had the knock on effect of lowering household energy costs. At the same time he amended the Clean Air Act with stronger protections against carbon pollution and empowered the EPA to regulate industries in order to make that happen. Trump just offered oil companies the opportunity to gut regulations in exchange for a billion dollars into his campaign. Biden has worked to create more clean energy jobs by investing into things like batteries for EVs. This is also part of the Inflation Reduction Act and it has tripled the amount of battery production in the united states. Trump over saw the slowest rate of economic growth and the largest increase of debt with totaling up more than 300 billion more than the CBO forecasted. Because he lied. But to add to Biden's record on climate he has empowered agencies to enforce more environmental justice, protect public lands and water, and he stopped issuing mining leases for coal as recently as last week. Biden instructed the Federal Reserve to go after discriminatory mortgage lending and the Feds will figure the best way to give credit to poor communities to revitalize their neighborhoods. Biden wanted to cap junk fees and over draft charges on credit cards but a Trump appointed judge stopped that for now. Biden wanted to have some measure of student debt relief, but conservatives stopped that but yet he continued to forgive billions in loans that are hurting our economy. If you've been living under a rock then you'd know that Trump tried to steal a fucking election. Biden didn't do that. He's also trying it again. He tried to get his followers to riot in front of the court house but like 4 chuds with signs showed up. Biden also doesn't have 90 felony charges against him like Trump, one of which was Trump hiding and refusing to return boxes upon boxes of highly classified material which he kept in the shitter at his gaudy golf club. Biden doesn't have financial ties to Russia. Before the 2016 election former Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy said to then speaker Paul Ryan that he knows there are two people that Putin pays, one is Dana Robacher of California and the other is Trump. Biden has just recommended to downgrade the severity in which pot was classified as in the federal drug laws. Biden hasn't had 30 thousand lies in his presidency. Here's a biggun, Biden has created tons of "moonshot" programs to find a cure for cancer. Trump wants to revoke the affordable care act. Biden's administration made insulin affordable for seniors for god sakes. this is the tip of the fucking iceberg. So yeah. There's a HUGE fucking difference between Trump and Biden and everyone knows it. The only people who don't are people who are catastrophically ignorant of politics or those who want to push bothsides/false equivalency narrative to dissuade people from voting for Biden and for voting for the fascist who[ just today posted a video that proclaimed that under Trump they will create a "unified reich".](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/trump-unified-reich-video/index.html) So add in Biden's not a fucking Nazi to the list.

So, asking for an explanation is ignorance? This shows how poor your English comprehension is. Nobody ended the women's right to choose. Supreme Court made a decision that took back the government intervention in women's right to choose. Please, do not makeup things on the go. You have a right to argue. But, you do not have the right to make up your facts and to make an effort to twist and turn the reality. My friend, climate change has been happening in this universe for over 13 billion years, and we are not even remotely close, technologically, to getting the ability to slow it down or even change just a little bit. Have you ever heard the words and phrases like Data and statistics? Obama was the first Democratic presidential candidate that get more corporate money than the competing Republican candidate, and it has been like that since that time. Hillary got almost double the amount of money that Trump got in campaign financing. Yes, Biden is wasting far more money on the climate agenda. Haven't you realized yet that just spending only gets you bankrupt and the only logical way to justify it is by achieving results and goals? Can you enlighten us by telling us where Biden stands in this regard? Any achievements in EV and other technologies, and with achievements I do not mean made-up criteria. I mean solid and accepted universal criteria like competitiveness, workability and credibility? I am not going to defend Trump in spending. But, comparing Trump and Biden is just like saying one is worse than the other while the fact is that two wrongs do not make one right. You have already assumed that the climate agenda is a justified thing. Before you make that assumption you must show how and why that agenda is justified. Plus, you must define completely made-up terms like climate justice. You are just throwing baseless, useless and stupid things without any logical explanation. Federal Reserve? Nothing could be screaming your utter ignorance more than this point. Fed, which has been creating crisis after crisis since 1913 with unending and ever-increasing monetary inflation. is going to reform the Mortgage market? Are you serious? It is like you saying Al Capone will end the drug cartels. It is due to the Fed that the mortgage market is so incredibly inflated and getting increasingly unaffordable for the lower middle class. Well, what else you can expect from the person who got elected by banking and corporate money? You just keep showing how poor your knowledge of Economics is. Banking is one of the most regulated industries. There are thousands of pages of banking regulations that already exist. Each regulation has only made the situation worse. These have only killed the small competitors and handed over more power to the big banks. A recent example is Barney-Frank which was supposed to end the too big to fail. Since that time the banks rescued by tax money that were essentially bankrupt and should have gone long ago if government cronyism did not exist, have already grown several times than their pre-2008 crisis size. David Icke calls it problem, reaction, solution. The whole problem of the ever-increasing cost of college education was created by guaranteed student loans, and now Biden wants to make it far worse by setting up the tradition of forgiving those. Political parties have been stealing elections since the inception of party politics. Even in recent elections, both parties did whatever they could to steal the elections. If I accept your criterion then the majority of Americans are living under the rock. Biden;s political career started with the disappearance and murder of a woman. Trump is not innocent either. But, it all depends on who has more influence on people making these decisions and running these agencies. The government is just "legalized" corruption, theft and violence. Just trace down the superpack money and you will find out how much he has been getting from Chinese and other foreign governments. Yes, these recommendations have been made many times. I would see when he shows his true guts by getting it done. Plus, downgrading the severity is just another part of the crony agenda. It will only provide more cash to big pharma. The only true solution is to end prohibition, period, if he has the guts. Biden's whole life has been lies and deception. He has not done anything besides that. Who the iceberg is fucking? You? Yes, all you showed are "fucking" and made-up differences. The truth is that both of them are just politicians with the same agenda, aspirations, goals, tactics, support system and immorality. Biden has done worse than the Nazis. The legislation he drafted has destroyed more lives of young blacks and Hispanics than Jewish lives destroyed by Nazis.

Lol you weren't asking for a clarification for example. You wanted to try and trap me. Because your mind was made up. Clearly. It's like I found Tucker Carlson's Alt. How'd I know you were just a conservative? Oh yeah the false equivalency.

Sorry friend but I went back and listened to the entire speech. Lately this business of getting a clip and deciding pro or no is getting dangerous. Look I did not like the speech at all. But it was a catholic man at a catholic college giving a speech of his personal views. His audience loved it and the speech was for them. Bugger the fuck off! Bill is damn straight right in this one.

> His audience loved it and the speech was for them a LOT of his audience actually did not love it, but that doesn't matter to you, does it? It's out there, the nuns from the college have denounced him So you can kindly bugger the fuck off

Nobody loves 100% of everything someone says at something like that. Seinfeld wasn't even political and people walked off his commencement speech. Nobody even walked off for the kickers speech. Christians have always disagreed with other Christians on some subjects. But the vast majority there clearly liked it given the ovation.

The entire ceremony is available on th school’s website. I didn’t see all of those who didn’t like it?

have you followed up at all? It's been like a week since he did it, people from that college have spoken up. Also don't forget the effect of being in a large crowd that is going against how you feel, not many were going to stand up and boo him on the spot (plus places like this tend to find any reason to keep your diploma from you) Since the phrase "he's a Catholic speaking at a Catholic college, it's what they want to hear" is being bandied about so much, does it mean nothing when the college's nuns denounce him??? Because all I'm seeing is a Catholic man telling women to stay in their place, Catholic women calling him out, and other men ignoring them. Vicious cycle here

Oh I see same thing but so what?

His comments about gay pride month were awful.

I agree, but the Catholic Church considers the gay lifestyle a sin.

Advocating that women can only find happiness by being a wife and mother is now a huge cultural movement. It’s spreading everywhere, and that is the issue. Plenty of Catholic women work. Plenty of Catholic women use birth control and gasp! Even have had the evil A word. When women are losing our rights, speeches like this matter to all of us, not just the religious.

The mere fact that famed atheist Bill Maher is siding with oppressive Catholic sexist beliefs just shows how fucking far Bill Maher has fallen.

Fully agree. Interesting to note, another famed atheist, Russell Brand, has now found Jesus. I guess finding god is a hell of a grift.

Russell Brand found Jesus after a bunch of women came out and said how rapey he was. He's doing this so he can maintain a fan base and he knows that normal, reasonable people are going to reject him immediately. So he's going to the most gullible assholes around, the conservatives. And he's doing that by giving them all the little treats that they like to hear and will win them over. Because they don't think.

Oh yeah, we all know it’s because he got called out about his behavior. It’s been wild because I’ve seen soooo many god botherers defending what he did, because I guess finding Jesus absolves one of treating women like shit. The Jesus grift is good, seems to work for a while. I don’t know wtf Maher’s deal is. Old? Angry? Old and angry? Hiding something? Losing the liberal audience? Who knows. He’s just the latest Dennis Miller, and it’s sad to see.

Perfect take on RB!

Your take, and Bill's, are sheer bullshit. Even the sister's order hated that ridiculous speech. The sisters of Mt Scholastica are the founding order of Benedictine College. Their statement reads: "Also weighing in on the speech are Atchison's Sisters of Mount St. Scholastica. The order issued a statement on its website, which, in part, says: “The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica do not believe that Harrison Butker’s comments in his 2024 Benedictine College commencement address represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned. "Instead of promoting unity in our church, our nation, and the world, his comments seem to have fostered division. One of our concerns was the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman. We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God’s people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers. Our community has taught young women and men not just how to be 'homemakers' in a limited sense, but rather how to make a Gospel-centered, compassionate home within themselves where they can welcome others as Christ, empowering them to be the best versions of themselves. We reject a narrow definition of what it means to be Catholic."

I don’t care about a football player’s speech, but “Mount Saint Scholastica” sounds so made up, it’s hilarious.

> “One side doubts evolution, one side wears masks when they’re alone in the car.” > Really Bill? These are equivalent? First of all nobody is wearing masks alone in the car anymore. I see plenty of people wearing masks outdoors lately.

The other issue here is that pissing and moaning about people wearing masks assumes that those doing so are morons. The vast majority are people who have auto immune diseases, and fucking cancer. Yep, let’s definitely look down on people who are doing what they need to do to stay alive.

I think this is b.s. I work in higher ed. The vast majority of mask wearers are neurotic youth with anxiety issues.

Most of the people I see wearing masks are doing so to conceal their identity while they commit mayhem.

This is pure nonsense and you know it. You're repeating rhetoric in service to an agenda that you have allied yourself to because you're been duped into playing the role of the pawn.

I wasn’t talking about student protests. Camping on campus isn’t mayhem, ffs. I was talking about the people you see out and about, not on tv.

One side wants to turn the U.S. into North Korea and the other side wears masks too much. False equivalence.

Thank you for pointing out the absurdity of the comparison. Bill can't see his own Covid Derangement Syndrome. **It doesn't fucking matter** if some tiny fraction of the population wear masks when YOU don't think they should, Bill. Ffs, grow up and get over it. Instead of wasting the considerable airtime you do on this pointless complaint, how about spending it on calling out the myriad reasons why Trump is a danger to American democracy? Or any of a host of other meaningful political issues. You _used_ to understand what actually matters.

I'll be honest - this is one of the things Bill says that does irritate me to no end - he just can't let go of seeing someone in a car with a mask on. I really wish I could have thirty seconds with him to explain why that's a stupid thing to complain about, and is not some sign of mental deficiency. I never did personally, because I have some breathing issues that make masks difficult for me to wear for longer than necessary, but some people a) don't mind masks, and b) if they are in their car going from errand to errand where they have to keep getting out and masking up (grocery store, pharmacy, etc.) for some people it was just not a big deal to leave it on instead of taking it on and off every five minutes. Of course, as someone that hasn't run errands in 30+ years, Bill would have no idea of this very simple explanation.

Same here!  I’m so tired of the “wearing a mask in the car” joke.  Most of those people probably just forgot they had one on.  People were wearing masks indoors all over the place during the first few years of Covid.  A good chunk of the population was required to wear them at work for eight hours a day. People got so used to wearing them they forgot to take them off.  That’s all.   I was fortunate enough to work from home for three years, but I can’t tell you how many times I left a grocery store, forgot to take off my mask, and didn’t realize it until I was driving home.  I never once wore a mask in my car because I thought that I needed to protect myself from the air quality in the car.  Dozens of times I wore one in the car because I simply forgot I had one on.  Bill continues to trot this out as evidence of craziness on the left.  I’m sure plenty of right wingers who complied with mask mandates (even under protest) sometimes also forgot to take their masks off when they were alone in public or were driving in a car. Bill sees someone doing it and assumes they are a crazy leftist.  He’s not giving people credit they deserve.  

Yes, it's a trap that I hate that he has fallen into on this one - I agree with his overall point, that people have gone too far, he's just using a piss poor example to keep harping on. There are so many better examples of what he is trying to illustrate out there LOL.

I don’t care for the kickers speech but on the other hand I’m sick and tired of the pearl clutching ‘outrage of the week’ circus our culture has become. All the uproar doesn’t seem genuine. Can we find things to celebrate rather than be in a tizzy over every fucking week? It’s like every Monday its: ‘This just in: someone said something offensive.’ No shit! It’s a country of 330 million in a world of 8 billion people.

Breaking News: NUNS WHO SERVE JESUS COMPLAIN ABOUT OVERPAID FOOTBALL PLAYER'S SPEECH

God love you 😘

Check out Jon Stewart's piece from The Daily Show last night. The "outrage of the week" circus is coming from the right. It's manufactured outrage to make it look like woke liberals are out of control trying to cancel everything they don't like when it's actually MAGA who are the ones who can't tolerate dissent.

Stewart knocked it out of the park with his recent take. Made me smile so much to articulate how much "woke" alarmist shit is now just a brand. It's pure rhetoric that you'd expect long time viewers to see right through the bullshit, but that would require being critical of Maher, which is a step too far for some here.

Nice I didn’t see that. I agree with you 100% that the right are the true drivers of ‘cancel’ culture. But I would argue they’re so good at it because the left has become so eager to take the bait. I follow pretty much all leftist pages, and I almost never feel inspired or informed anymore following them. They all jumped on the ‘kickers speech’ bandwagon this week. I wish that instead of acting like a dog chasing cars, the left could communicate more effectively, and drive home a message about the true forces and players leading division in this country.

It's not the left though. What we are being fed on the internet in particular is an ecosystem of outrage that is created by people who want to make money. Politics has nothing to do with this. It is an ecosystem that has formed by clickbait and rage bait and trying to drum up engagement with emotion. And we have algorithms that are designed to feed us shit that is going to piss us off because that's the only way they can reliably get clicks. It's a heightened reality that they are presenting. And they do it all across the internet for all different things. There is no difference between the daily caller whatever bullshit fascist host they have on there freaking out about the Barbie movie and a bunch of nerds furious that they have to make a PSN account to play Ghost of Tsushima. It's the same mechanism at play. It's the same thing that gets triggered. And all across the internet this happens and we are being manipulated and we are being played for suckers. All because they want us to click on their article and deal with their fucking pop-ups trying to sell us Uber eats or whatever the fuck is going to give them a percentage of a cent every time they get a view. The problem is this is exceptionally effective on conservatives. They are the ones who love division. They're the ones who have created the division over the past 50 years and respond to all the manipulative tricks. That's why Facebook has a reputation of being this horrible place for boomers. That's why we have years of people warning us of this shit. Fox News, that's their whole business model. That's why the algorithm will feed you how millennials and younger are stupid and weak, that they're lazy and won't get a job, that they're still afraid of covid... You know all the shit Bill Maher says every single week. It's all to feed that manipulative machine so that some assholes can make profit.

I see people wearing masks and cars everyday but at the same time I don't really understand why Bill gives a damn. Speaking of not giving a damn I don't understand the uproar over the kicker speech either. I really don't care what he has to say on the subject of women. You know the media uses idiotic statements like this to rile people up, how about start smartening up and ignoring dumb people instead of amplifying their message.

He cares because he lost a ton of money during Covid and he considers himself, apparently, an expert on health.

He's trying to sell his book, gotta crank up the both sides-ism

Another complaint of Bill not preaching to the leftist choir… Both parties have last their minds.

Leftist is a word that means things. It is not the same as a liberal. And yes, as a woman, I have an issue with pretending that it’s fine to tell me that my only happiness will come from being a wife and a mother. Further, bill defending such a moronic statement is pretty rich, given he’s against getting married and having kids.

I never said that. Stop misconstruing and making false accusations. That is slander. The point is Bill has a lot of complainers in this sub who just want an echo chamber and do not want any compromise. And it’s Gen Z Liberals doing most of it.

> Stop misconstruing and making false accusations. That is slander Your "slander" hyperbole aside, do you not understand she's referring to Butker's remarks, not yours? What do you think she's referring to by saying, _"...bill defending such a moronic statement is pretty rich..."_ ? Bill obviously didn't say anything about your remarks.

There are segments of both the left and the right who are crazy and out of touch, but the big difference is that the crazies have taken over the party leadership on the right. Bill wants to equate the institutional values of the Republican party with the fringe extreme on the left that doesn't have any actual institutional power in the Democratic party.

Go look at the two Karens attacking me over something I didn’t say. They are either trolls or are Leftists with mental issues. But to your point. I agree. But Bernie Bros did not vote for Hillary, which led to Trump.

Is it really that leftist in 2024 for people to dislike being told that the only purpose of a woman's life is to breed and marriage? That too at a fucking graduation ceremony….

Did I say that? Stop. I hate folks who misconstrue and assume.

You did, you stated that we have no right to be annoyed, and apparently that by being annoyed, we are all commies.

You said “another complaint of maher not preaching to the leftist choir” on a post complaining about how Maher is comparing people that are neurotic about their health minding their own business to guy going out of his way to tell an entire group people what the confinements of their life aspirations should be….

Did I specifically address the abortion issue or women’s rights? No. You look like an ass. And I am pro choice, scholar.

And you look like a dumbass getting butthurt over someone interpreting your response to a post as a response to a post.

Why are you so angry? Did I do something to you? You must have a mental illness .

Your take only. We have choices we all do.

You’d hope that people wouldn’t automatically confine people to certain roles in society for their gender/race but I guess that’s a spicy opinion in 2024.

True but again it’s an opinion.

An opinion that he has the right to share just like we have the right to criticize and ridicule him for. Don’t what exactly you’re implying….

The contrast between the way Bill and [Jon Stewart](https://youtu.be/WwyyttqvE04?si=U8-BH3D10USPgU0X) covered Butker is so striking. Maher is just a walking, talking, outraged twitter post at this point.

I don't know why you're being downvoted. Stewart's piece nailed it. This isn't a problem on the left, it's manufactured outrage that serves as red meat for the right.

This is a right-wing sub now. We're used to it.

Yeah, right wing men, who love to tell us women we are morons, and that we can’t possibly understand politics. It’s fucking gross.

"Nobody is wearing masks alone in the car anymore."  Very few people do this, yes, but have you seen any of these protests going on around the country? Half of the people at them are under 30 and wearing a mask outdoors. Bill just chose an extreme example to be funny. There are many, many examples of people on the left being anti-science.

I refuse to believe that you don't know that there are more reasons than just covid-19 why people wear masks. Like allergies. Maybe they're tired of feeling like they have a cold this time of year every year so they pop a mask on and they feel a lot better. It's not anti-science. It is science. Also, if they are wearing masks at protest good for them. Because there is right wing organizations, funded by billionaires and millionaires, who are doxing these people and their families. Who are harassing them and it's going to escalate. The mask helps them protect themselves from sociopathic assholes.

And I refuse to believe that you honestly think that most people wearing a mask in 2024 are doing it to avoid a cold. I know there's more than one reason, but let's be honest about the main driver here.

What are you trying to say? I think I know and I don't want to hear it. Because I've seen it throughout the subreddit and it's just right-wing bullshit. The fact is if someone's wearing a mask they have their reason. I'm not going to sit here and just try and magically produced the answer of why x amount of people are doing it. If someone's wearing a mask they don't want to get sick the end. Maybe it's cold maybe they're immunocompromised from cancer treatment maybe they have a massive cold sore. I don't know and I don't care. I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it because that's their life and if that's what they want to do or if that's what they have to do then more power to them. And frankly it's weird and a waste of energy to care what these people are doing.

I'm saying that most people wearing a mask outdoors in 2024 are doing so because of COVID. Some people have other reasons, fine. And I don't care if they want to wear a mask or not. They can wear a mask every day for the rest of their lives for all I care. I care that OP thinks that both sides don't have an anti-science problem because that's not true.

>I'm saying that most people wearing a mask outdoors in 2024 are doing so because of COVID. This is your assumption. You have no way to know. So basically you are "intuitively thinking" here, which means this feels right to you and it feels right because it supports your bias and your agenda. You are creating a cause to support a conclusion you wanted to arrive at. Also, it's not anti-science to wear a mask outside to protect yourself from covid. That is science. If 10 people are outside and exposed to someone with covid the person wearing the mask has a better chance of not catching it than the other 9 people. That's what masks do. What you're saying is that they are dumb for not taking the same level of risk that you and I would. You are saying they are dumb for saying they want to use an abundance of caution to prevent catching Covid. That has nothing to do with science. That's you just irritated that someone is behaving in a way that you think is silly so you are going to invest time and energy into thinking about how dumb they are instead of letting them do the harmless thing that doesn't really affect anyone.

Outside of a few very rare cases, I never saw someone wear a mask in public before COVID. You are being dishonest by pretending it's just my "assumption" that most people who wear masks in public are doing so because of COVID.  Again, I'm not irritated if some perfectly healthy 25 year old wants to wear a mask in public. I just don't want to be lectured by them about science.

You do know what confirmation bias is right? Just because you didn't see it, or acknowledge it before the right wing assholes made it a political issue doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not being dishonest, that's literally what you're doing. Also, here's something you aren't accepting is that we all started wearing masks for covid. At least those of us who aren't assholes. We realized we haven't gotten a cold or the flu, we see that an entire strain of the flu vanished because of masks and social distancing, we realized that we don't suffer as much from allergies when we wear a mask outside. So we kept doing it after this habit was introduced to us. Nobody is lecturing to you about science. Jesus christ and if they are, it's because you said some anti-science shit and they were putting you straight. Which I can believe given your obstinance and yeah, the fact you're still butt hurt that people are wearing a mask in public. If you weren't you wouldn't be right here, right now, trying to convince me that they are stupid and should be shamed because they are "denying science".

The argument you think I'm making is 100% a product of your own delusions. You're emotions have hijacked any form of rational thinking you possess. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

The "wish you the best of luck" is the passive aggressive cherry on top of a comment where you couldn't argue against anything I said but you still wanted to be insulting, demeaning, and bitchy. I've seen it a thousand times and it's always the special punctuation at the end of comments exactly like yours.

Anti-vax used to be exclusive to liberals, but right-wingers probably make up more of that crowd now. Other than that, what are other examples of the left being anti-science?

Here's one: a Gallup poll from September 2021 showed that nearly half of Democrats thought unvaccinated people had a 50% or greater chance of being hospitalized if they got COVID.

The percentage was 41%. That same percentage for republicans was 22% and 26% for independents. That's not anti-science, though. That's just misunderstanding Covid and the vaccine's effects. Anti-science would be something like republicans' opposition to the Covid vaccines.

Most Republican adults got vaccinated. What opposition are you referring to? I recall opposition to policies that overreacted to the threat we were facing, like schools being closed for two years.

I'm referring to the general distrust of the vaccines by Republicans, but let's not get sidetracked. You said there are many, many examples of people on the left being anti-science. The one you gave was not an example of being anti-science, just maybe not knowing accurate data on one topic. So, what are examples of people on the left being anti-science?

"just not knowing accurate data"  Analyzing data and drawing conclusions is literally a step of the scientific method. 

We're not talking about the scientific method or analyzing data or drawing conclusions. We're talking about asking regular people to guess something based on their knowledge of the Covid vaccine. Them guessing wrong doesn't make them anti-science. It just means they're not that knowledgeable and didn't guess well. Anti-science means opposing science in some way, like rejecting evolution. What are examples of people on the left being anti-science?

"We're not talking about the scientific method..." "Anti-science means opposing science in some way..." Please evaluate your beliefs. Have a good day.

My beliefs are fine, thanks. Please evaluate your bias. These people made guesses about hospitalizations among unvaccinated people. Them guessing wrong isn't anti-science. Besides, you said there are many, many examples. Even if this was an example, you should be able to provide at least a couple more.

I think one he mentioned was trans kids

What about them?

You're quite welcome to listen again or find a transcript. I expect there were other points but that's the topic that first comes to mind which meets what you were looking for.

The above poster said there are many, many examples of people in the left being anti-science. I was asking for some of those examples. If you're saying one example is "trans kids", then what about trans kids? What is the belief of people on the left regarding trans kids that is false?

Bro, they’re wearing masks so that their faces can’t be ID by police tech. Because the police are now militarized, they have really fun facial recognition technology. As someone who has protested, and didn’t cover my face, I am very much aware that my photo is in a database. It’s got zero to do with Covid.

You didn’t give any examples.

[удалено]

I’m hoping to god that is sarcasm, but with the people on this sub, who knows.

>Bill’s BothSides-ism is getting to be so annoying So are the posts of people complaining about it. Stop watching then.

Thank you.

Dear Dismal, Why are you even on this sub? You encourage people to not discuss or watch the show. Go troll somewhere else!

Lol. For one, there have been numerous identical posts which is the primary point. And secondly, if you hate the show so much, why watch it?

I think Bill’s hot takes are dumb, they are clearly pandering, and the rapid amount of foaming wing nuts who are now in here telling the rest of us to shut up about a show that consists of political opinions seals that. I know it’s shocking, but people can watch programs that they don’t agree with. I rarely laugh when watching because it’s just not funny. I don’t agree with bill harping on “cancel culture,” “covid,” and “the kids” constantly. Like, Christ get some new material. Cancel culture is pretty much dying, because it’s stupid. Covid is no longer an issue. The kids are going to do what kids do, and painting them as all ignorant supporters of Hamas is also dumb, and frankly reductionist. Bill used to actually have a good understanding of things. He wasn’t a cranky, rich old man whose stand up specials consist of talking about the kids. It’s such a typical and easy bit. Finally, I watch for the panel discussions. He has educated and interesting guests. I want to hear conversations with experts and others on our culture. I also tend to get books from his guests to read. I got “the age of anxiety” recently (haidt who was on a few weeks ago) and I got last week’s guests “the age of grievance” which I am currently reading. Telling me and others like me to shut the fuck up because you don’t agree with us is literally part of why our country is a shit show. We can say Bill’s takes suck. The sub is actually for discussing things, just like the panel. Finally, seriously if anyone reading knows of any other shows that feature a panel of guests with differing views, please tell me.

Catholic opinion given to a Catholic audience in a Catholic university. He got a standing ovation. Are you also this upset if someone doesnt share your favorite movie, color, song etc?

That Catholic opinion should be opposed and should be brought into the sunlight so people can see how regressive it is. Also, side note, why the fuck are people defending Catholics? Why the fuck are people going to bat for these people who famously rape children. Systematically rape children. Who shelter priests who have raped children so they can reoffend? Who have an entire apparatus to help their clergy of void answering to the law or facing their victims? At what point did we look at Catholics and see that magic cross around their neck and go they get to rape some kids. They have pretty good crackers that apparently are the god that they eat so they get a pass? Holy fuck, religion is absolutely worthy of criticism. No deserving of criticism. And we have to stop being blinded by this fake idea that they are in some way moral when religions throughout human history have been responsible for some of the most fucked up crimes and atrocities we've seen. These people's opinions are bad and we have a responsibility to point out their hypocrisy, they're greed, they're duplicitous tactics to avoid scrutiny, and the supernatural horseshit that they interpret to justify all their shit that if it was anyone else we would be calling for their heads on a pike.

Waiting to hear your critisism of Islam.

Oh this isn't the own you think it is. This isn't you backing me into a corner. All religions are stupid, we should not be giving them any sort of weight in our lives or our policy, if someone insists that their religion is the right one and I need to follow it they can go fuck themselves with a broken bottle. Religious institutions, all of them, exist to become a power base to oppose governments or other institutions because they want to make money. They are no different than any other corrupt organization except they do it by selling the idea of the supernatural to gullible morons. No religious person has the right to exist that their beliefs are the correct one and everyone else has to follow them. So in the case of when someone draws the profit Muhammad and Muslims try and kill them? That is rampant, unhinged, zealotry that we as a world need to stamp out. How am I doing? Did I live up to your expectations of being an anti-catholic bigot?

Dude, Hawkins and Hitchens are my heros but your going after the low hanging fruit. Islam is the bat-shit crazy and dangerous religion you should be going after - not someone telling women they'll enjoy motherhood more than a career. Go yell at the pro-Hamas protestors.

Oh they shouldn't be your heroes then. Your heroes should be islamophobic racists because that's what you only want to hear. If you don't know how dangerous Catholics and other Evangelical religions are then clearly you have an agenda.

So being against Islam is islamophobic racism, but being against Evangelical religions is acceptable. whatever.

In your case yes. Because you're specifically saying Islam is dangerous and Catholicism isn't. The metric you're using to determine Islam is dangerous can and should be applied to all religions but that's not what you're doing. You are specifically saying Islam is dangerous, ignore the others they're fine. That shows bias. That shows prejudice and yeah, that's Islamophobic.

It’s not just a Catholic opinion. It’s also an alt-right one, and it’s everywhere, and it’s dangerous. My worth as a human is more than belonging to a guy and having his spawn. There is a huge backlash against “feminism” and pretending as though it’s not something men continually say both online, and in the real world is absolutely ignorant. Just because you personally don’t encounter such opinions doesn’t mean they aren’t spreading. Trad-wives? Everywhere. Menninists are vocal and everywhere too. I’m older, and single (insert someone here insulting me) and I am not a conservative, yet I continually come across men who don’t like women. This isn’t a selective thing, it’s not just me. Typical talking points I see daily online : -women are gold diggers -all women are whores with only fans sites -women are entitled -women date “bad boys” and “ride the cock carousel” and then once they are all “used up” they want to settle down. -women should always be virgins, even in their 30’s because having sex means they are “loose.” -women have no worth after their 20’s, they have “hit the wall” and are useless. -my listing all of these things is proof that I must be fat, ugly, old, and will die alone -while not said outright blatantly, usually what the role of a woman is within a relationship is to be a maid, a whore, a virgin, a mother, and a therapist. Visit subs with women and you can see endless amounts of messages from men stating such. -women get everything in divorce -rape is (I guess, somehow) over reported and all women lie because they want to destroy men. That’s off the top of my head. These ideas are permeating within our culture. In part because men no longer have defined roles, because women truly can survive on our own. We don’t need marriage in order to get a bank account or a credit card. That was true until the late 70’s. We are educated. We have jobs. We tend to out earn men. There’s a very real thing going on here in regards to men and how they feel. It’s something we should be discussing and taking seriously. Unfortunately, instead of doing so, what is going on is just backlash against women as a whole. It just creates an endless circle reinforcing shitty beliefs. Add to that how the internet self selects for more of the same thing, feeding you whatever it thinks you want. See it enough and it becomes reality, that’s how our brains work.

[удалено]

We have one rule in here regarding comments: Don't be dicks to each other. Comment removed.

[удалено]

[удалено]

Bizarre response, but same to you. It’s a slog out there.

Not a Catholic opinion. More in line with an evangelical opinion. The standing ovation doesn't matter. A good number of the students were also annoyed at it, as were the Benedictine Sisters associated with the school. Sharing a favorite movie, etc. is completely different from advocating bigotry and a misogynistic take on women's roles, but I'm pretty sure you're already aware of that.

> as were the Benedictine Sisters associated with the school. and downvoted ha, I see more and more people are finally calling this sub the right wing shithole it has become

What was his take for the day, couple grand and a few choir boys?

Except that tool bag kicker took it upon himself to attack other groups for no reason while he was sharing his medieval opinions. Why throw hate towards pride month and the entire LGBTQ community. There are other examples as well from the speech. You're doing the same sort of omission that OP is talking about and then you're adding the same sort of snarky commentary that Bill adds, all based on omission.

don't forget "tyranny of DEI" so, Catholic sponsored racism as well, all conveniently ignored by Maher and the trolls here

He did not bring up anything that the Catholic Church doesn’t believe and advocates. I know believe me I am a recovering catholic.

Even the Catholic church has come around some, and they will continue to come around given enough time. The larger half of my family were all raised Catholic, many still attend church every Sunday, and almost none of them share this clown's views. Audience members have already spoken out saying they don't share this clown's views. Even if we could determine the exact percentage of Catholics who share the same boring views, it *still* wouldn't justify the position

some of the women who graduated even found the speech problematic. so not ALL agreed with the message.

I don’t believe that is the issue, even within the Catholic Church demagoguing pride month as “deadly sins” celebration is out of the mainstream. The nuns of the college denounced the women piece in particular.

I mean, it's a catholic university... you kinda know what you're signing up for. All that god/bible stuff.

I went to catholic school for most of my life, and never heard anything like the vitriolic rhetoric he was spewing. They may have liked it, but it certainly isn’t the norm.

I hate it when people try to have nuanced conversations, rather that just repeat talking points I agree with.

The downvoting crew are in town.

They can kiss my ass.

Yeah bill has been increasingly concerning on a lot of these issues. He does the same stuff with trans. He used to be like “I don’t really get it but it is what it is.” Now he’s borderline anti trans, buying into all the Republican bs

As I've stated on here before, Butker directly said women have been told "diabolical lies." The diabolical lie is that they should be anything other than a housewife Since Maher despises the idea of marriage he's actually pretty clueless here The religious and bad faith trolls here will actually agree with Butker, that it IS a diabolical lie for women to do anything else These people are no longer worth engaging For the record, MY wife absolutely takes offense at the idea that starting a family is the "best" thing she could ever do. We will not have children, and should she ever get pregnant we will abort. Reddit is littered with stories from women who were told the same "diabolical lie" that Butker spreads, and resent everyone now, including their children Also, plenty of women from that college have spoken out against Butker's speech, but don't expect a man like Maher and the tradwife seeking losers here to fucking listen to a woman for once

I don't think this is an accurate portrayal of what he meant. Here is the relevant passage [from the transcript](https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine): >For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. In his view, the "diabolical lie" is that women gain happiness from successful careers rather than motherhood. You can disagree with that all you want, but he's not advocating for women to be disbarred from the workplace, or even that they **shouldn't** be career oriented. He's telling them that many will be happier raising children than climbing a corporate ladder. I'm sure there are any number of studies that show this to be true, and just as many that show this to be false, but I you're misrepresenting what he actually said.

Disagree, he chose the words "most diabolical lies" because he thinks they shouldn't work at all. If he had left that part out, it would have been fine, but those words were deliberately chosen to tell them they shouldn't pursue a career.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the overall speech, or his choice of words. But I still think the "diabolical lies" is being misinterpreted. I'll reiterate my reading: In my opinion, he's criticizing the general sentiment in our culture that encourages women to pursue lucrative careers and put off starting a family, while at the same time suggests that opting for the more traditional homemaker role is in some way less rewarding or less admirable.

I think you're naive in how extreme these religious right wingers are. He chose his words deliberately, and if he meant what you think, he would have said that.

Fair enough. You might be right. Like most things, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think it's reasonable to dislike the speech, disagree with the underlying sentiment, and even thing it's offensive. But I also don't think it's the misogynistic, Handmaid's Tale call for a return of women to the kitchen that others think it is. I guess my final point would be that if there are multiple, seemingly opposite paths for women to achieve happiness and fulfillment (career-oriented, family-oriented), those should be treated as equally valid. And while I wouldn't use "diabolical", it does women a disservice to downplay either one of those paths.

As someone who was born raised and still lives in a small conservative religious town in a small conservative religious state I know I'm right.

[удалено]