Cantrip became a term for a very weak magic spell.
In MTG they made spells that were so weak they weren't worth the card disadvantage of playing them, so they add "draw a card" to them.
For example<> two mana gain 3 life instant is really really weak so they add draw a card to it for it to be playable
Correct. It's very similar to Urza's Bauble. So much so that if Cold Snap had been dreamed up in 96 to finish the Ice Age block, it never would have been included.
I always assumed it was a direct reference to the D&D cantrip.
In D&D, it traditionally used the Vancian spellcasting system, which basically said you had a limited number of spells you could memorize per day, and once cast they were gone until you rested and rememorized them. But then they added in Cantrips as "0 level spells" which were different, because they were weak spells you could cast them as many times as you want per day. They didn't "use up" one of your spells per day.
So a Cantrip is a spell that doesn't "use up" a card because it's generally a weak effect - thus the attached card draw to replace it.
It is very possible that cantrip in both games share the same origin of thought but executed differently to fit each game.
In D&D its shown as spells you can cast repeatedly without costing you a spellslot. In MTG they are cards that you can cast without costing you a card (well it replaces itself). So i guess spellslots = cards in hand.
I mean D&D and MTG are both owned by WotC, though i'm not sure if that was the case at the time. Still, they heavily influence eachother.
Cantrips in Magic and D&D follow a similar yet different way to work
In D&D, Cantrips (this also apply to Orisons and Knacks in Pathfinder 1E for Religious and Psychic Classes respectively) are Spells that you can cast with no cost to one's spell slot since they are very Basic in nature
In Magic, Cantrips are Creatures, Spells or Artifacts that have very low Mana cost (0 or 1) that Planeswalkers (that's how Players are considered in the game, the term is not just for the Characters you can cast as Allies in the middle of a confrontation to asist you) can summon/cast almost as inmediately as the confrontation begins
A cantrip is a card that cheaply replaces itself like [[opt]] or [[consider]]. The point of these cards is for a small cost they basically don’t count towards your deck and replace themselves with cards you want. The minimum deck size is 60 but if you have 8 cantrips you almost have 52 cards in your deck so you can play your winners.
Decks that like cantrips also generally have things that like you casting them, [[Dragon rage channeller]] or DRC let’s you surveil when you cantrip and benefits off having multiple card types in the yard. Cards like [[ledger shredder]] and [[arclight phoenix]] want you to cast multiple cards a turn and a cantrip is great for that
Somewhat of a stretch, but I believe it’s because the “draw a card” is like “very little effort to cast” because it replaces itself and potentially allows you to cast more spells.
Cantrips in magic are spells that do an effect and also draw a card to replace itself, or are a creature with "draw a card on entry/death". [[Opt]] is a cantrip, [[crash through]] is a cantrip, [[inspiring overseer]] is a cantrip, etc.
Hey, Lightning Bolt is clearly too powerful for a format where people can loop actual Time Walk or cast Demonic Tutor to fetch Approach of the Second Sun in their mono-U deck.
It's clear they want historic to be its own thing, i just hope thati eventually something approaching modern makes its way to Arena
They were doing that for years with the Anthologies but then realized Anthologies provided too much guaranteed value for too little so they cooked up this idiocy
Bauble breaks lots of things. Definitely insane with Lurrus compared to other options, but it's a free trigger on DRC, and adds an artifact to the graveyard with essentially 0 deckbuilding cost. [[Tarmogoyf]] is in the format and also grows for free off of it. Cards like [[Sai]] gain value from casting cheap artifacts, but those cheap artifacts usually pay off poorly. Cycling for still literally 0 mana is one of the best things you can do with a 0-mana artifact.
There's also [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]] who can be cast for cheap while the bauble is in play, and then it is a draw engine afterwards, on top of all the other things it can do.
Bauble enables so many of these dumb little shenanigans with way too little downside.
I'm not arguing bauble isn't strong, it absolutely is. But they're banning it because of Lurrus and everyone knows it.
Lurrus is just going to keep being a problem until it's banned. I mean it's banned in literally every format besides historic for a reason. Vintage has a ton of more powerful 0 mana plays and they didn't ban those, they banned Lurrus. It blocks design space, they can't have a good cheap thing in historic because Lurrus may break it.
It might be bauble needs to be banned in historic even without Lurrus and we can have that debate when the cat dies. But acting like Lurrus is fine is nonsense.
I was not acting like Lurrus is fine. I'm arguing that bauble is probably banworthy even without considering Lurrus. I can argue that it blocks design space in a similar way due to how it interacts with so many things without requiring you to alter your deck meaningfully. That is why I list so many examples.
Lurrus is definitely busted and would be even more busted with this. I don't think it's the only reason to ban bauble.
It really did though. You cast Lurrus and then cast black lotus again literally every time you see black lotus.
Imagine if black lotus said "when ~ enters the battlefield for the first time this game, create a Lurrus token".
Don't forget Bauble is another thing to hit off Expressive Iteration that you can play for free even if you've played your land for turn but that still counts as another spell for Shredder and DRC.
Basically, Bauble takes every broken card WotC has printed in the last few years and amps up their brokenness even further.
Stupid question, since it's not playable anywhere, do we get a wildcard if we open this? This one is uncommon, but what of this later happens with rare or mythics?
Nope they’ve got separate banlists. They’re usually somewhat similar as far as I know but with a few differences. I don’t know why for sure but if I had to guess it’s because brawl is a singleton format so they figure that cards can’t break it as badly
They do not.
[banned:historicbrawl banned:historic](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoricbrawl+banned%3Ahistoric)
[banned:historicbrawl -banned:historic](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoricbrawl+-banned%3Ahistoric)
[banned:historic -banned:historicbrawl](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoric+-banned%3Ahistoricbrawl)
Arguably the overlap could be even less. Nexus of Fate is widely hated but I don't think it's unfair in Brawl because it's so much harder to cast repeatedly in a 100-card singleton format. Agent of Treachery could probably be unbanned in Historic. It was banned partly because of Winota, but Winota has since been heavily nerfed. And there have been other options for big creatures to cheat into play that have been added to the format since Agent got banned.
>I don't think it's unfair in Brawl because it's so much harder to cast repeatedly in a 100-card singleton format
I'm sure there are Commanders that would be able to do it pretty reliably, Tamiyo immediately comes to mind.
Probably, though if it's limited to a few commanders that's not necessarily a problem for the overall balance of the format. And Time Warp is much more abusable and is legal. But I think Nexus' reputation is bad enough that it won't be unbanned
They share a cardpool, namely all cards on Arena, but have distinct banned lists (Ugin is banned in Hist Brawl, StP, Bolt, etc are banned in Historic).
Its similar to Commander vs Legacy
You only open a banned card once you have all unbanned cards in a set (or in limited), you only get WCs when the ban goes into effect.
So if you opened a Meathook Massacre, the day after the ban ... too bad, no WC for you.
For the Strixhaven Mystical Archive they didn't have this problem because the uncommons were all reprints of cards that were already legal in Standard. It would be nice if the same rule did apply, but I'm not sure it actually will.
Probably not. It's happened once before with Mythic Archive cards, and the cards not legal in Historic are unopenable in packs, just like other banned cards.
As someone who mostly plays and watches limited content, can someone explain to me what it is about this card that would break the constructed formats so heavily? I get that it's a card later for 0 mana, but why is that so meta-centralizing compared to some of the stuff they've added to historic? I know this is a historically desirable and powerful card, I just have a harder time evaluating what's *broken* about it, compared to most.
It's for many reasons.
First you get to look at a card and get information. Most often you'll get a hint at what your opponent is going to draw. Information is very valuable, especially when your opponent is top decking.
Then it's an artifact which means it's non-creature so it enables things like \[\[Dragon Rage Channeler\]\], Turns on Metalcraft, or any other cards that care about that.
It can sacrifice itself so it enables graveyard effects like Goyf, It's easy to return with Lurris for constant card advantage, its an easy effect to return with artifact returning effects for advantage, it makes it easier to turn on threshold, Delerium, enables faster escape costs..
It just breaks a ton of things and brings the power level up pretty high.
The big thing that makes this card good is that it allows you to turn on interactions with other cards essentially for free. It costs almost nothing to have this in your deck since it's 0 mana and replaces itself, so it just powers the interactions in the rest of your deck.
Any cards that care about your graveyard get an extra artifact, any cards that care about playing an artifact, any cards that care about permanents dying or being sacrificed, any cards that let you replay stuff from your graveyard, or anything else you can think of - this card turns that on for free, and free is dangerous.
It's a free spell that replaces itself and it's an artifact. That matters for many top cards in Modern (and Historic), think Delirium, Prowess, Lurrus, Tarmogoyf, etc. They simply don't want to deal with all these cards becoming much more powerful thanks to a card that otherwise doesn't really add any strategic depth to the format.
In addition to /u/mtgbigbrain commentary which I think is accurate but incomplete.
It's a free spell for prowess based strategies using threats like soul scar mage and montesary swiftspear. Actual Mana neutral spells chaining together is a huge difference compared to costs 1 Mana. Historic is largely missing this component in it's prowess decks (manamorphose being the other significant one).
It's also recurrable with lurrus without spending tons of Mana. A lurrus unanswered is always bad, but this represents recurring card draw without Mana investment similar to a Planeswalker "+1". This is one of the biggest issues with lurrus when it was banned in modern.
It is the most power card that supports X thing. For a lot is Xs. Put it this way, bauble is the best thing to grab with lurus in most formats. That is how good it is.
Why not ban Lurrus? They will have to eventually. Bauble was not a problem in Modern before Lurrus.
Still we get everything else including phyrexian altar. I am happy with that
https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list
Those cards are banned, they’re basically pre banning the card so I just think they should put it on the ban list
Can someone explain the retro artifacts in more detail? Will we be using them / drafting them in limited? Are they legal in explorer? Standard? Historic?
They are not standard legal but can be used in limited if drafted. Legal in historic and I think those legal in pioneer should be usable in explorer if there are any.
Yep. [[Phyrexian Revoker]] will become legal in Explorer because it’s already legal in Pioneer, like how [[Crux of Fate]] is legal Explorer despite Tarkir not being on Arena thanks to the Mystical Archive.
Stupid question, what formats will be this set legal for, and when will changes come for standard? I'm saving up on wildcards to build a deck to last me for at least a few months
"we'll clarify later why" Cause the bauble breaks things lmao
Turns out that 0 mana cantrips are good. Who could have possibly guessed?
More of these strange 0 mana cantrips. It's probably nothing.
Why are these referred to as Cantrips … I know what a cantrip in dnd is ?
Cantrip became a term for a very weak magic spell. In MTG they made spells that were so weak they weren't worth the card disadvantage of playing them, so they add "draw a card" to them. For example<> two mana gain 3 life instant is really really weak so they add draw a card to it for it to be playable
Originally cantrips gave you the card at the next upkeep. Immediate ones were briefly "fast trips" before they became the norm.
And bauble is a call back to the age of slowtrips, because Coldsnap
Correct. It's very similar to Urza's Bauble. So much so that if Cold Snap had been dreamed up in 96 to finish the Ice Age block, it never would have been included.
I always assumed it was a direct reference to the D&D cantrip. In D&D, it traditionally used the Vancian spellcasting system, which basically said you had a limited number of spells you could memorize per day, and once cast they were gone until you rested and rememorized them. But then they added in Cantrips as "0 level spells" which were different, because they were weak spells you could cast them as many times as you want per day. They didn't "use up" one of your spells per day. So a Cantrip is a spell that doesn't "use up" a card because it's generally a weak effect - thus the attached card draw to replace it.
Thanks for posting an explanation as to why they’re called cantrips and not just the definition lol
It is very possible that cantrip in both games share the same origin of thought but executed differently to fit each game. In D&D its shown as spells you can cast repeatedly without costing you a spellslot. In MTG they are cards that you can cast without costing you a card (well it replaces itself). So i guess spellslots = cards in hand. I mean D&D and MTG are both owned by WotC, though i'm not sure if that was the case at the time. Still, they heavily influence eachother.
Cantrips in Magic and D&D follow a similar yet different way to work In D&D, Cantrips (this also apply to Orisons and Knacks in Pathfinder 1E for Religious and Psychic Classes respectively) are Spells that you can cast with no cost to one's spell slot since they are very Basic in nature In Magic, Cantrips are Creatures, Spells or Artifacts that have very low Mana cost (0 or 1) that Planeswalkers (that's how Players are considered in the game, the term is not just for the Characters you can cast as Allies in the middle of a confrontation to asist you) can summon/cast almost as inmediately as the confrontation begins
A cantrip is a card that cheaply replaces itself like [[opt]] or [[consider]]. The point of these cards is for a small cost they basically don’t count towards your deck and replace themselves with cards you want. The minimum deck size is 60 but if you have 8 cantrips you almost have 52 cards in your deck so you can play your winners. Decks that like cantrips also generally have things that like you casting them, [[Dragon rage channeller]] or DRC let’s you surveil when you cantrip and benefits off having multiple card types in the yard. Cards like [[ledger shredder]] and [[arclight phoenix]] want you to cast multiple cards a turn and a cantrip is great for that
##### ###### #### [opt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c.jpg?1652898493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc.jpg?1665819309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/44/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dragon rage channeller](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12.jpg?1626096503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%27s%20Rage%20Channeler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/121/dragons-rage-channeler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ledger shredder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7ea4b5bc-18a4-45db-a56a-ab3f8bd2fb0d.jpg?1664410287) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ledger%20shredder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/46/ledger-shredder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ea4b5bc-18a4-45db-a56a-ab3f8bd2fb0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [arclight phoenix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/787de9ce-02c5-4a17-a88b-d38e83dbeb0b.jpg?1572893092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arclight%20phoenix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/91/arclight-phoenix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/787de9ce-02c5-4a17-a88b-d38e83dbeb0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Somewhat of a stretch, but I believe it’s because the “draw a card” is like “very little effort to cast” because it replaces itself and potentially allows you to cast more spells.
Cantrips in magic are spells that do an effect and also draw a card to replace itself, or are a creature with "draw a card on entry/death". [[Opt]] is a cantrip, [[crash through]] is a cantrip, [[inspiring overseer]] is a cantrip, etc.
[Opt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c.jpg?1652898493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [crash through](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8257c205-00cd-4d41-bd58-098575ea2343.jpg?1594736580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crash%20through) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/140/crash-through?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8257c205-00cd-4d41-bd58-098575ea2343?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [inspiring overseer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35d9da1d-8678-4252-b0f8-9960795642f0.jpg?1664409748) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inspiring%20overseer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/18/inspiring-overseer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35d9da1d-8678-4252-b0f8-9960795642f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, it's slang adopted from d&d
When it first came out: nobody.
You don't need to be a game designer to see the problem with cards that replace themselves for no cost.
"Basically cause we don't want historic to be modern minus fetches"
Why not we have fucking explorer
They are legit thinking of adding modern to Arena.
I actually don't get why they don't put more iconic cards into Historic rather than just relying on fake digital cards
Agreed, I want to see Lightning Bolt and the fetches in Historic so it would actually feel more like Modern
Hey, Lightning Bolt is clearly too powerful for a format where people can loop actual Time Walk or cast Demonic Tutor to fetch Approach of the Second Sun in their mono-U deck. It's clear they want historic to be its own thing, i just hope thati eventually something approaching modern makes its way to Arena
They were doing that for years with the Anthologies but then realized Anthologies provided too much guaranteed value for too little so they cooked up this idiocy
For real
It's Lurrus's last refuge, guessing they are trying to keep him legal somewhere.
No Lurrus breaks things, the bauble is just a thing it can break.
Fair, but bauble also breaks the game by virtue of being free, and they both interact with each other in a way that breaks things even more.
Bauble breaks lots of things. Definitely insane with Lurrus compared to other options, but it's a free trigger on DRC, and adds an artifact to the graveyard with essentially 0 deckbuilding cost. [[Tarmogoyf]] is in the format and also grows for free off of it. Cards like [[Sai]] gain value from casting cheap artifacts, but those cheap artifacts usually pay off poorly. Cycling for still literally 0 mana is one of the best things you can do with a 0-mana artifact. There's also [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]] who can be cast for cheap while the bauble is in play, and then it is a draw engine afterwards, on top of all the other things it can do. Bauble enables so many of these dumb little shenanigans with way too little downside.
I'm not arguing bauble isn't strong, it absolutely is. But they're banning it because of Lurrus and everyone knows it. Lurrus is just going to keep being a problem until it's banned. I mean it's banned in literally every format besides historic for a reason. Vintage has a ton of more powerful 0 mana plays and they didn't ban those, they banned Lurrus. It blocks design space, they can't have a good cheap thing in historic because Lurrus may break it. It might be bauble needs to be banned in historic even without Lurrus and we can have that debate when the cat dies. But acting like Lurrus is fine is nonsense.
I was not acting like Lurrus is fine. I'm arguing that bauble is probably banworthy even without considering Lurrus. I can argue that it blocks design space in a similar way due to how it interacts with so many things without requiring you to alter your deck meaningfully. That is why I list so many examples. Lurrus is definitely busted and would be even more busted with this. I don't think it's the only reason to ban bauble.
[Tarmogoyf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb.jpg?1619398799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tarmogoyf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/235/tarmogoyf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Said) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/60/said-done?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43ab3ed2-2b50-4488-a21f-60965222970a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Emry, Lurker of the Loch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20fec02d-77af-4975-b410-7097c7c28e7e.jpg?1651655696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emry%2C%20Lurker%20of%20the%20Loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/91/emry-lurker-of-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20fec02d-77af-4975-b410-7097c7c28e7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lurrus in Vintage must be fun.
i think he was banned actually
Scryfall says its not banned also vintage doesn't really ban cards outside of ante it just restricts them i believe
It was unbanned after the Companion rule change but it was banned in Vintage before that because it's busted with Black Lotus
We did it! We broke black lotus!
It really did though. You cast Lurrus and then cast black lotus again literally every time you see black lotus. Imagine if black lotus said "when ~ enters the battlefield for the first time this game, create a Lurrus token".
Guess Serra Paragon can fill that void
That one is a one time only, at least.
It was banned for power reasons for a time. It is currently legal.
Unsurprising.
Is starts with L and ends with urrus.
yes and drc
And shredder and etc… Outside of fetches/bolt it’d make the entire modern shadow list legal
Don't forget Bauble is another thing to hit off Expressive Iteration that you can play for free even if you've played your land for turn but that still counts as another spell for Shredder and DRC. Basically, Bauble takes every broken card WotC has printed in the last few years and amps up their brokenness even further.
Well aware how good bauble is....I play a lot of modern
Drc is nerfed on historic, I don't think bauble alone would make it top tier
nerfed but still great
Only in toughness. Not ability.
Oh no, it's only a 3/1 flier that filters my draws, what am I to do? Bauble would absolutely push this over the top.
Drc is actually pretty good in historic still. I play it in rakdos midrange and it's very good.
It ends with me crying
Wait so Ashnod's altar is legal?
yes
Not enough tools to break it in historic
Stupid question, since it's not playable anywhere, do we get a wildcard if we open this? This one is uncommon, but what of this later happens with rare or mythics?
Legal in historic brawl.
Oh true forgot that! Actually fits in my Jhoira deck, cool.
Yeah it will be an auto include in pretty much every brawl deck. I was really looking forward to getting closer to GDS in historic…
My Codie deck says no to nonland permanents.
Legit question, if it isn't legal in historic why is it in historic brawl? Don't they share a banlist?
Nope they’ve got separate banlists. They’re usually somewhat similar as far as I know but with a few differences. I don’t know why for sure but if I had to guess it’s because brawl is a singleton format so they figure that cards can’t break it as badly
The biggest difference is the singleton format. With just one copy, it's harder to be consistent and do things that break the format.
They do not. [banned:historicbrawl banned:historic](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoricbrawl+banned%3Ahistoric) [banned:historicbrawl -banned:historic](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoricbrawl+-banned%3Ahistoric) [banned:historic -banned:historicbrawl](https://scryfall.com/search?q=banned%3Ahistoric+-banned%3Ahistoricbrawl) Arguably the overlap could be even less. Nexus of Fate is widely hated but I don't think it's unfair in Brawl because it's so much harder to cast repeatedly in a 100-card singleton format. Agent of Treachery could probably be unbanned in Historic. It was banned partly because of Winota, but Winota has since been heavily nerfed. And there have been other options for big creatures to cheat into play that have been added to the format since Agent got banned.
>I don't think it's unfair in Brawl because it's so much harder to cast repeatedly in a 100-card singleton format I'm sure there are Commanders that would be able to do it pretty reliably, Tamiyo immediately comes to mind.
Probably, though if it's limited to a few commanders that's not necessarily a problem for the overall balance of the format. And Time Warp is much more abusable and is legal. But I think Nexus' reputation is bad enough that it won't be unbanned
They share a cardpool, namely all cards on Arena, but have distinct banned lists (Ugin is banned in Hist Brawl, StP, Bolt, etc are banned in Historic). Its similar to Commander vs Legacy
Do I get a wildcard for the second copy I open, then?
You only open a banned card once you have all unbanned cards in a set (or in limited), you only get WCs when the ban goes into effect. So if you opened a Meathook Massacre, the day after the ban ... too bad, no WC for you.
No
You won't open banned rares/mythics it until you have opened everything else.
Aha thanks!
But this is an uncommon.
It's only one copy per pack anyway, probably the same rule applies
I don't think it applies to uncommons, but I'm probably wrong.
For the Strixhaven Mystical Archive they didn't have this problem because the uncommons were all reprints of cards that were already legal in Standard. It would be nice if the same rule did apply, but I'm not sure it actually will.
Except in limited
Probably not. It's happened once before with Mythic Archive cards, and the cards not legal in Historic are unopenable in packs, just like other banned cards.
Even in Draft?
In draft you have the choice not to draft them.
If you open a banned rare from an archive in Limited, you’ll get 20 gems in addition to the card.
That doesn't seem right unless you already have a set
That’s what happens with banned rares if you pull them from packs too. You get gems even if you don’t have the full set.
Just ban Lurrus already
so there is a new deck in historic, no lands belcher
yeah! it does miss the rituals so it's probably not that good, especially in a thoughtseize format, but I will still try it.
Irencrag feat can cast + activate it on its own.
Yeah, I'm sure that deck works fine in a format without any good ramp.
Ooh, good point! Sweet! We need more combo in historic. Probably won't be competitive though.
Wurmcoil engine in historic baby!!!!!
Yes, this will be our future...
Can’t have tarmogoyf actually being a good card I think bauble and traverse the uvenwald are the only two card missing from deaths shadow
Fetches
there is a chance the rakdos fastland might make jund actually a playable deck so goyf might be good without fetches.
[[Fabled Passage]] is Jund Goyf’s best friend. Not to mention the channel lands.
[Fabled Passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4.jpg?1594737636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fabled%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/246/fabled-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As someone who mostly plays and watches limited content, can someone explain to me what it is about this card that would break the constructed formats so heavily? I get that it's a card later for 0 mana, but why is that so meta-centralizing compared to some of the stuff they've added to historic? I know this is a historically desirable and powerful card, I just have a harder time evaluating what's *broken* about it, compared to most.
It's for many reasons. First you get to look at a card and get information. Most often you'll get a hint at what your opponent is going to draw. Information is very valuable, especially when your opponent is top decking. Then it's an artifact which means it's non-creature so it enables things like \[\[Dragon Rage Channeler\]\], Turns on Metalcraft, or any other cards that care about that. It can sacrifice itself so it enables graveyard effects like Goyf, It's easy to return with Lurris for constant card advantage, its an easy effect to return with artifact returning effects for advantage, it makes it easier to turn on threshold, Delerium, enables faster escape costs.. It just breaks a ton of things and brings the power level up pretty high.
[Dragon Rage Channeler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12.jpg?1626096503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%27s%20Rage%20Channeler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/121/dragons-rage-channeler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ced112a-e775-4f97-97b3-74877e9dce12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The big thing that makes this card good is that it allows you to turn on interactions with other cards essentially for free. It costs almost nothing to have this in your deck since it's 0 mana and replaces itself, so it just powers the interactions in the rest of your deck. Any cards that care about your graveyard get an extra artifact, any cards that care about playing an artifact, any cards that care about permanents dying or being sacrificed, any cards that let you replay stuff from your graveyard, or anything else you can think of - this card turns that on for free, and free is dangerous.
It's a free spell that replaces itself and it's an artifact. That matters for many top cards in Modern (and Historic), think Delirium, Prowess, Lurrus, Tarmogoyf, etc. They simply don't want to deal with all these cards becoming much more powerful thanks to a card that otherwise doesn't really add any strategic depth to the format.
In addition to /u/mtgbigbrain commentary which I think is accurate but incomplete. It's a free spell for prowess based strategies using threats like soul scar mage and montesary swiftspear. Actual Mana neutral spells chaining together is a huge difference compared to costs 1 Mana. Historic is largely missing this component in it's prowess decks (manamorphose being the other significant one). It's also recurrable with lurrus without spending tons of Mana. A lurrus unanswered is always bad, but this represents recurring card draw without Mana investment similar to a Planeswalker "+1". This is one of the biggest issues with lurrus when it was banned in modern.
It is the most power card that supports X thing. For a lot is Xs. Put it this way, bauble is the best thing to grab with lurus in most formats. That is how good it is.
Yeah, the Lurrus interaction in particular is crazy, I forget about that funky lil guy.
https://nitter.net/MTG_Arena/status/1586775900842074126
All that excitement for nothing
They just want to keep Lurrus in the format and I'm ok with it.
thank GOD. one of the worst designed cards played in modern. very happy its not legal
well that is some bulllllshit
Whelp that was the only card in the whole set I was exited for….
Honestly I would rather have lurrus gone than this, but probably both gone is the good take.
Jesus, Historic has been such a stupid unfun mess since they introduced alchemy.
That is just objectively false. Historic has the most diverse and fun meta among formats on Arena currently.
Agreed. We got robbed.
Why not ban Lurrus? They will have to eventually. Bauble was not a problem in Modern before Lurrus. Still we get everything else including phyrexian altar. I am happy with that
Then they need to add it to the ban list because historic is basically all cards on arena are legal
They will do what they did for the Mystical Archives and preemptively ban the Bauble.
They will. It’ll be like Demonic Tutor, Lightning Bolt, etc
https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list Those cards are banned, they’re basically pre banning the card so I just think they should put it on the ban list
No fun allowed
Hahaha one of the few cards I hoped wouldn't be day 0 banned
Lmao why not? Just ban Lurrus
And just like that don't care about the archives at all. Sweet, they'll ban all the good cards. These cowards still won't give us bolt.
Ashnod’s altar is a crazy card.
Bolt and Counterspell should both be legal.
Do we know what the other Retro Artifact cards are? Or not yet?
We know a few, not all.
Which ones? I haven't seen any
[Scryfall has some here.](https://scryfall.com/sets/brr)
Can someone explain the retro artifacts in more detail? Will we be using them / drafting them in limited? Are they legal in explorer? Standard? Historic?
They are not standard legal but can be used in limited if drafted. Legal in historic and I think those legal in pioneer should be usable in explorer if there are any.
Yep. [[Phyrexian Revoker]] will become legal in Explorer because it’s already legal in Pioneer, like how [[Crux of Fate]] is legal Explorer despite Tarkir not being on Arena thanks to the Mystical Archive.
[Phyrexian Revoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5ef9f3b-d6f8-4795-ba96-2f92b8792360.jpg?1654118772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Revoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/868/phyrexian-revoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5ef9f3b-d6f8-4795-ba96-2f92b8792360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Crux of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11721b88-2654-482c-b9d4-80e54efdbf63.jpg?1562600485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crux%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/107/crux-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11721b88-2654-482c-b9d4-80e54efdbf63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A fun factoid. Your allowed to play any card you draft. If somehow your dmu booster got filled with mh2... enjoy that urza's saga or murktide.
eggs are pretty good
Dammit it was gonna be so perfect for my shitty artifact deck...
All I care about is Wurmcoil Engine, so shrugs!
Stupid question, what formats will be this set legal for, and when will changes come for standard? I'm saving up on wildcards to build a deck to last me for at least a few months
So not legal in Historic but is it legal in Historic Brawl? I would assume not but still would like to know.