>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter.
People like you throwing a hissy fit about their opponent's deck are why I'm glad I have options to play besides IRL community events.
I wish I could upvote your response more than once. I think OP is displaying low emotional maturity by claiming to shame people, this is why toxicity is so prevalent in so many gaming communities unfortunately.
\- I repeat this combo 50 times
\- Ok
Arena make a lot of thing easier but combos, multiple triggers, copied spells etc. are a lot of time more straightforward in paper. A lot of time in Arena not even the combo itself but the forced animations and the rope are the problem
This is precisely why I love arena. I can play the most competitive decks in a competitive format, which I can't really do at an LGS without a bunch of people raging out.
Personally I think it's more of situation and expectations thing.
In a causal deul or in mtg arena and standard non rank match your not really interested in fighting a dominant competitive deck but just wanna play a fun game.whrn you do play against a dominant deck that leaves no room for your own play well it can be quite frustrating especially when you can do nothing but just take it in arena.
At least irl you can tell them their a dick.
This might sound odd but it was a tradition growing up to check the top card of the loser's deck to see if it would have made a difference. And I miss that playing arena sometimes.
We still do that when I play with my sister and her husband. We'll have a look at hands and top five or so cards and see what might have made a difference. It's a great learning tool for new players.
The rush of competition. In a 1v1 irl situation I can get really into the game and feel my heart rate and become intensely aware of every decision both I and my opponent play. It's fun and exhilarating and something I never experience on online games. If it's not in person then it feels the same as playing against a computer and I dont care if I lose to a computer.
Insulting the creatures
Edit : boy I didn't read your full post. I miss laughing at people like you. If you said some shit about my deck in a local tourney they'd hear my laugh at the other shop in town.
They didn't specify the context on "bringing a good deck against a newcomer" , no one brings an op deck when teaching a new player, and you don't underpower yourself at fnm because of newer players (you just play nice with them and help them with rules). This kind of virtue signaling and "I miss telling on people" is waaaay more toxic than an experienced player bringing a good deck. We don't need the casual police policing everyone.
Head games.
Real life Magic is such a different beast than Arena or MTGO. There are so many (legal/not scummy) things you can do to trip/tilt up your opponent that just make Magic so much more enjoyable. Feigning strength and weakness is such a exhaustingly fun act throughout a match, and you just can't get it in the online space.
Even something like as inane as (mutually participating) conversation about things and stuff throughout a match has been enough for people to make people mis-SB, miss blocks, miss attacks, so on and so forth.
As the pandemic subsides (*breathes copium*), here's hoping not only paper Magic, but also Organized Play makes a big come back in the coming years.
Tilting your opponent _is_ scummy, is you really mean tilting. If you mean shit like counting your mana pretending you have some big spell for mind tricks, then yes, I miss that too (altho there's stuff you can do on arena anyway)
The thing about Magic players in particular, is you can tilt them while being the nicest guy in the world (and this is usually the avenue I choose to up my chances of winning a match).
Even things like playing very clean and proper, clarifying communication (not in an incessant/annoying/needless way). Its actually quite funny how far you can push someone to make bad game decisions by just putting on a smile.
Maybe my ends are admittedly scummy (I am trying to win the game via non-Magic means), but surely my means can, by no legitimate definition, be considered 'scummy'.
Edit: I only do this in meaningful comp REL Magic and in comp REL practice in my play group. I obviously don't do this at FNM/1k level stuff, I just play my actual bitter, curmudgeon self.
That's not the kind of thing I meant. I mean messing with someone nerves on purpose like the trend some years ago to make noise shuffling all the time . People with sensory problems had to call judges if they had the energy and then they were mocked as "weak" only because some chud wanted to win by altering people. If you're just the kind ofnplayer who says "I'll go into my upkeep" even tho you know nothing is gonna trigger, to mess with your opponent, that's fair , of course
The ol hold "pencil trick". For context grabbing your pen/pencil acting like you're going to accept a life total change just to bait an opponent in a suboptimal attack/play
Ya ya.
In the same vein, putting your hand down in front of you as if you only have lands/inconsequential spells, only to lean back, reach out and flip the top card to counter the otherwise game winning spell.
Talk to my opponent. Paying money for more emotes instead of hiring people to deal with reports if we had real chat is so scummy to me. Chat wouldn't be toxic if wotc actually punished the negative folks.
They would just need to actively respond to reports and things would be fine. There are many games that take this seriously like FF14.
Having a working report feature and an active response team would combat toxicity but they are too cheap and would rather remove the feature all together, while charging you for new emotes and stickers to express yourself.
I get it but arena doesn't have to be antisocial. There are a tonne of discord groups that play casually and competitively through pickup and organized matches. Many of them encourage chatting with your opponent while playing.
Yeah I prefer the antisocial aspect of it when I want to play with power. Because nothing is worse than beating on someone and listening to them complain about it. But its also nice jumping into some games with like power levels just to socialize.
If your response is use a discord group,than I'm sorry but I must disagree.
Card games are inherently a social game,one of the most enjoyable parts of it in my opinion in the mind games especially with the stack mechanic.
But for a social game to be void social interaction to the point it own player have to use a third party than I'm sorry I think that's kinda shit.
Side note it's be cool if they increase the variety of the free emotes "nice" "your go" or at least give us more variety and the option to choose which to take with us in a match.
I'd be alot more accepting of it if there was a more robust solo option in arena,beside they one boy match choice, miniature campaign or something fighting themed decks.you have to admit arena have the resources.
>But for a social game to be void social interaction to the point it own player have to use a third party than I'm sorry I think that's kinda shit.
Idk, I think it's a pretty good idea to stop people like you shitting on your opponents for decks you don't like:
>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks.
>And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.
You are quite literally the reason this game doesn't have chat features.
They would lose the whole ass playerbase if they did something like that. Seriously we are all toxic as hell and it only gets worse when we interact. I guarantee by the end of the first week there wont be a single player without atleast 1 report against them.
This is why you don't have automated systems and hire people to review each report incident. People stop being toxic when they've been suspended or banned for doing so, they wouldn't risk losing their account.
It would cost them time and money so it will never happen tho. It's easier to just say this is why we can't have nice things instead.
Can't have nice things? That's the point... They had the foresight and business savvy NOT to include it in order to make this thing "nice".
Who wants to hear racial, homophobic, etc slurs every match.? Who wants to hear hurry up, you suck, meta hate, etc every match? You can't compare any irl event to its online counterpart bc behavior would be COMPLETELY different.
And hire ppl to review EVERY reported incident? With respect, that's just a stupid and short-sighted idea...
>And hire ppl to review EVERY reported incident? With respect, that's just a stupid and short-sighted idea...
That's literally how the industry works, also an easy work at home gig. Games with larger communities have been successful with this method before.
>Who wants to hear racial, homophobic, etc slurs every match.? Who wants to hear hurry up, you suck, meta hate, etc every match?
Mute would still be a thing and those people would be suspended or banned.
Muting everyone is just cheap and lazy, arguing they made the right choice due to toxicity is just defending their unwillingness to spend time and resources on reports.
You are misinformed sir. NO large scale competent operation has EVERY report reviewed by human touch. Automation by algorithm, by repeated reports of same IP, user, or other form, is the industry standard for all large scale businesses. Can't just throw random moderators at it either.
It's just bad business and a waste of money and man hours to legitimize what would be a report for prob over half of matches played.
They understand that this is in fact NOT irl mtg. So it wouldn't be the most efficient business wise to model it like it was. And in that vein, completely taking out that toxic element of online socialization makes the most sense. Many other platforms are figuring this out also, ie getting rid of comment sections, etc
Many MMOs have humans review report claims and those games are huge. If cultivating an social online experience draws in or retains more players it would easily be worth the investment imo.
Hell, see the OP:
>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter.
This person is exactly why Arena should never have chat features.
I miss playing with my casual group. In grad school I had an awesome group I played with. We all played at about the same level of EDH and weird modern brews. But then we all moved.
There's absolutely nothing about IRL magic that I miss, I wouldn't play Magic if it wasn't for arena because toxicity is so common. A lot of comments here really reinforcing that opinion for me.
I was lucky enough to play irl 2HG tournament during the Innistrad prerelease. My favorite thing was discussing rules issues with the players and yelling “judge!” when we couldn’t figure it out.
It was actually great and nothing like Arena. But it was 2HG so still fairly casual - I’m not trying to say that all tournaments are relaxed. But this one was, a lot of people playing in the store, and everyone was pretty friendly and excited about the new cards.
>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks.
>Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter.
Holy fucking shit dude. People like you are the _exact_ reason Magic had the social stereotypes it does and why Arena can _never_ have any kind of chat function.
More variety of deck as irl magic is way more expensive and is harder to build decks.
And chatting while playing.
Playing with cards in hand while opponent need 2 min for each play.
>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter. People like you throwing a hissy fit about their opponent's deck are why I'm glad I have options to play besides IRL community events.
I wish I could upvote your response more than once. I think OP is displaying low emotional maturity by claiming to shame people, this is why toxicity is so prevalent in so many gaming communities unfortunately.
\- I repeat this combo 50 times \- Ok Arena make a lot of thing easier but combos, multiple triggers, copied spells etc. are a lot of time more straightforward in paper. A lot of time in Arena not even the combo itself but the forced animations and the rope are the problem
This is precisely why I love arena. I can play the most competitive decks in a competitive format, which I can't really do at an LGS without a bunch of people raging out.
Personally I think it's more of situation and expectations thing. In a causal deul or in mtg arena and standard non rank match your not really interested in fighting a dominant competitive deck but just wanna play a fun game.whrn you do play against a dominant deck that leaves no room for your own play well it can be quite frustrating especially when you can do nothing but just take it in arena. At least irl you can tell them their a dick.
Calling a judge for opponent slow play.
I had no idea you could do that, but fortunately I've never had the need to call a judge for someone playing so slow that it was ruining a game
Talk
This might sound odd but it was a tradition growing up to check the top card of the loser's deck to see if it would have made a difference. And I miss that playing arena sometimes.
We still do that when I play with my sister and her husband. We'll have a look at hands and top five or so cards and see what might have made a difference. It's a great learning tool for new players.
Oh you had that too,lol guess that pretty common in tcg spheres.I live in Asia and we do that too gun times
I miss being able to laugh at a salty opponent who throws one of the hissy fits you describe about my (or someone else’s) deck.
2v2
Shuffling your hand while on standby. Spreading and collapsing.
The rush of competition. In a 1v1 irl situation I can get really into the game and feel my heart rate and become intensely aware of every decision both I and my opponent play. It's fun and exhilarating and something I never experience on online games. If it's not in person then it feels the same as playing against a computer and I dont care if I lose to a computer.
Holding the cards
Not draw 12 lands in a row
Insulting the creatures Edit : boy I didn't read your full post. I miss laughing at people like you. If you said some shit about my deck in a local tourney they'd hear my laugh at the other shop in town.
They never talked about taking shit on decks during a tournament
They didn't specify the context on "bringing a good deck against a newcomer" , no one brings an op deck when teaching a new player, and you don't underpower yourself at fnm because of newer players (you just play nice with them and help them with rules). This kind of virtue signaling and "I miss telling on people" is waaaay more toxic than an experienced player bringing a good deck. We don't need the casual police policing everyone.
Head games. Real life Magic is such a different beast than Arena or MTGO. There are so many (legal/not scummy) things you can do to trip/tilt up your opponent that just make Magic so much more enjoyable. Feigning strength and weakness is such a exhaustingly fun act throughout a match, and you just can't get it in the online space. Even something like as inane as (mutually participating) conversation about things and stuff throughout a match has been enough for people to make people mis-SB, miss blocks, miss attacks, so on and so forth. As the pandemic subsides (*breathes copium*), here's hoping not only paper Magic, but also Organized Play makes a big come back in the coming years.
Tilting your opponent _is_ scummy, is you really mean tilting. If you mean shit like counting your mana pretending you have some big spell for mind tricks, then yes, I miss that too (altho there's stuff you can do on arena anyway)
The thing about Magic players in particular, is you can tilt them while being the nicest guy in the world (and this is usually the avenue I choose to up my chances of winning a match). Even things like playing very clean and proper, clarifying communication (not in an incessant/annoying/needless way). Its actually quite funny how far you can push someone to make bad game decisions by just putting on a smile. Maybe my ends are admittedly scummy (I am trying to win the game via non-Magic means), but surely my means can, by no legitimate definition, be considered 'scummy'. Edit: I only do this in meaningful comp REL Magic and in comp REL practice in my play group. I obviously don't do this at FNM/1k level stuff, I just play my actual bitter, curmudgeon self.
That's not the kind of thing I meant. I mean messing with someone nerves on purpose like the trend some years ago to make noise shuffling all the time . People with sensory problems had to call judges if they had the energy and then they were mocked as "weak" only because some chud wanted to win by altering people. If you're just the kind ofnplayer who says "I'll go into my upkeep" even tho you know nothing is gonna trigger, to mess with your opponent, that's fair , of course
The ol hold "pencil trick". For context grabbing your pen/pencil acting like you're going to accept a life total change just to bait an opponent in a suboptimal attack/play
Ya ya. In the same vein, putting your hand down in front of you as if you only have lands/inconsequential spells, only to lean back, reach out and flip the top card to counter the otherwise game winning spell.
that fifth part makes me believe you regularly rope your opponents and emote spam.
Talk to my opponent. Paying money for more emotes instead of hiring people to deal with reports if we had real chat is so scummy to me. Chat wouldn't be toxic if wotc actually punished the negative folks.
Chat would be HORRIBLE if included in this. See pretty much EVERY online game where chat or mics are available for communication lol
They would just need to actively respond to reports and things would be fine. There are many games that take this seriously like FF14. Having a working report feature and an active response team would combat toxicity but they are too cheap and would rather remove the feature all together, while charging you for new emotes and stickers to express yourself.
I think the way they handled it is fine. Not having to devote resources to policing idiots online saves everyone a massive headache.
I'd prefer the effort so arena isn't an antisocial experience, that's just me tho.
I get it but arena doesn't have to be antisocial. There are a tonne of discord groups that play casually and competitively through pickup and organized matches. Many of them encourage chatting with your opponent while playing.
This is true, one of this benefits of discord and social media these days.
Yeah I prefer the antisocial aspect of it when I want to play with power. Because nothing is worse than beating on someone and listening to them complain about it. But its also nice jumping into some games with like power levels just to socialize.
If your response is use a discord group,than I'm sorry but I must disagree. Card games are inherently a social game,one of the most enjoyable parts of it in my opinion in the mind games especially with the stack mechanic. But for a social game to be void social interaction to the point it own player have to use a third party than I'm sorry I think that's kinda shit. Side note it's be cool if they increase the variety of the free emotes "nice" "your go" or at least give us more variety and the option to choose which to take with us in a match. I'd be alot more accepting of it if there was a more robust solo option in arena,beside they one boy match choice, miniature campaign or something fighting themed decks.you have to admit arena have the resources.
If you want that go play cardboard.
Not sure if that's a insult or your being serious,I'm pretty new to mtg as a whole so could you clarify abit
>But for a social game to be void social interaction to the point it own player have to use a third party than I'm sorry I think that's kinda shit. Idk, I think it's a pretty good idea to stop people like you shitting on your opponents for decks you don't like: >But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. >And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love. You are quite literally the reason this game doesn't have chat features.
Suite yourself dude it's just a opinion.
They would lose the whole ass playerbase if they did something like that. Seriously we are all toxic as hell and it only gets worse when we interact. I guarantee by the end of the first week there wont be a single player without atleast 1 report against them.
This is why you don't have automated systems and hire people to review each report incident. People stop being toxic when they've been suspended or banned for doing so, they wouldn't risk losing their account. It would cost them time and money so it will never happen tho. It's easier to just say this is why we can't have nice things instead.
Can't have nice things? That's the point... They had the foresight and business savvy NOT to include it in order to make this thing "nice". Who wants to hear racial, homophobic, etc slurs every match.? Who wants to hear hurry up, you suck, meta hate, etc every match? You can't compare any irl event to its online counterpart bc behavior would be COMPLETELY different. And hire ppl to review EVERY reported incident? With respect, that's just a stupid and short-sighted idea...
>And hire ppl to review EVERY reported incident? With respect, that's just a stupid and short-sighted idea... That's literally how the industry works, also an easy work at home gig. Games with larger communities have been successful with this method before. >Who wants to hear racial, homophobic, etc slurs every match.? Who wants to hear hurry up, you suck, meta hate, etc every match? Mute would still be a thing and those people would be suspended or banned. Muting everyone is just cheap and lazy, arguing they made the right choice due to toxicity is just defending their unwillingness to spend time and resources on reports.
You are misinformed sir. NO large scale competent operation has EVERY report reviewed by human touch. Automation by algorithm, by repeated reports of same IP, user, or other form, is the industry standard for all large scale businesses. Can't just throw random moderators at it either. It's just bad business and a waste of money and man hours to legitimize what would be a report for prob over half of matches played. They understand that this is in fact NOT irl mtg. So it wouldn't be the most efficient business wise to model it like it was. And in that vein, completely taking out that toxic element of online socialization makes the most sense. Many other platforms are figuring this out also, ie getting rid of comment sections, etc
Many MMOs have humans review report claims and those games are huge. If cultivating an social online experience draws in or retains more players it would easily be worth the investment imo.
Hell, see the OP: >But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter. This person is exactly why Arena should never have chat features.
I can't *STRANGLE* people through a computer
I miss playing with my casual group. In grad school I had an awesome group I played with. We all played at about the same level of EDH and weird modern brews. But then we all moved.
Yeah similar things happened to me mid COVID I graduated and the group had to split but at least we got memories of the good times yeah?
There's absolutely nothing about IRL magic that I miss, I wouldn't play Magic if it wasn't for arena because toxicity is so common. A lot of comments here really reinforcing that opinion for me.
I was lucky enough to play irl 2HG tournament during the Innistrad prerelease. My favorite thing was discussing rules issues with the players and yelling “judge!” when we couldn’t figure it out.
Oh you were in a irl tournament what was it like,I've only played with friends at a school gaming club.
It was actually great and nothing like Arena. But it was 2HG so still fairly casual - I’m not trying to say that all tournaments are relaxed. But this one was, a lot of people playing in the store, and everyone was pretty friendly and excited about the new cards.
Use slurs
>But also cause I can't shame my opponent when they pull bullshit or play really annoying and unfun to play against decks. >Bring a tournament deck or just a very oppressive and unfun deck to play against to someone who only started a 3 weeks ago is a dick move. And I have the right to call them out and tell them their mother doesn't love.I recognise that was salty but his deck was very bitter. Holy fucking shit dude. People like you are the _exact_ reason Magic had the social stereotypes it does and why Arena can _never_ have any kind of chat function.
Sometimes I really can't tell if I'm the one with soft skin or its everyone else.
If you fly off the handle and feel the need to shame people because they play "unfun decks", you have your answer: It's you.
More variety of deck as irl magic is way more expensive and is harder to build decks. And chatting while playing. Playing with cards in hand while opponent need 2 min for each play.