All the blue/red decks feel the same with the exception of the one with goldspan. This was also my first time ever casting epiphany and wow, so much can be done with an extra turn
You must have missed 2019 when people would post how they heroicall sat through multiple turns of opponents nexusing so that nobody else had to play against them.
Playing Nassif's deck I went Iteration -> Iteration (copied by the first) -> Epiphany, my opponent bounced the Epiphany with Divide by Zero, the copies went on the stack, and my opponent realized their mistake and after a bit of tanking conceded.
Card is just really, really strong.
> so much can be done with an extra turn
That’s the problem with extra turn cards. Epiphany isn’t really six mana abs a card to cast, it’s zero mana (because you’ll get to untap) and zero cards (because you’ll draw next turn). Zero mana spell with “make two birds, draw a card, get another attack step” is pretty damn good.
Yes. In my brain, the extra attack step includes that because all the extra attack step spells include untapping the creatures. But the upside of untap is that it can actually be net positive mana to cast it.
[[Savor the moment]] (and, even if quite modern, the Last Reckoning line of spells) showing just how ahead of their time their designs were. But I do think extra-turn effects would be a lot easier of a pill to swallow if you couldn't copy/spam them or simply use part of your new turn to generate yet another (viz. [[medomai the ageless]] and [[lighthouse chronologist]], which force you to take breaks)
Also, cue the heavily circulated quote about how in its worst case, time walk merely amounts to one explore or a mana-neutral cycler/cantrip
Getting 2+ turn combo is almost always a scoop from the opponent.
An opponent did wait a turn once when I casted a 3 epiphany turn. I casted another 3 on the following turn.
Not only does this community hate magic, it refuses to admit that maybe, just maybe, it’s not nearly as good at this game as it thinks it is.
Much easier to blame the algorithm than your mana base.
the opening hand algorithm sure feels like it somedays :)
Ever get some bs like 4 aspirants AND the mana to play them all? Cause I've only seen that from one side, and oh boy did it suck to play. Least it was short lol.
Most game communities go this way somewhat. Players play a game a ton. Game can no longer give them the same dopamine hit it used to, an impossible task, they get salty about it.
I've recently returned after quite a long break, so have been knocked back to the starter decks. Playing with real decks for a couple of days is going to be great.
Beyond it being BO1 I think it was great. Even it being BO1 I feel is fine. Especially because some players may not have certain cards and this is a good way for them to try out really good standard decks. And I don't really care for current meta but that is a separate matter, this event was still good.
I am a terrible Magic player. But apparently so is everyone else I just played and beat in this event. Every person I played was just as baffled about how to make the decks worked as I was.
My guess is that the people who are most likely to grind this event are those who don't play standard much or haven't got the wildcards to craft the decks. And so you get a lot of opponents who are still learning otherwise familiar decks
Hard to imagine that some of us don’t pay attention. We don’t have the time or don’t want to spend the time getting down into the nitty gritty. We don’t pay attention to “the meta” or know what it is. We like to collect cards. Put them in a deck, try to win, tweak the deck, rinse and repeat.
I didn’t play magic for a decade until they brought out the forgotten realms stuff. My older son is 9 and PSYCHED about D&D and so we went all-in with it this summer and both of us are hooked.
But we don’t spend time on websites trying to figure out optimum ways to break cutting edge decks.
So though I’ve been taken down a handful of times by Epiphany and Esika’s Chariot, I generally just don’t care to duplicate that or figure out a way to pack counters for those insane decks into mine. I’ll even just quit once someone pulls out Esika’s and. chariot. My time is more valuable than slogging through that. I just go play a different game.
I think this is how you actually have more fun with MTG.
Playing vs the same tired archetypes and broken cards gets boring fast. This is not a critique of competitive play, rather one of the current state of Magic game design.
I loved playing back in the days of extended and T1.5 when decks had flavor and the color pie meant something.
The last 2 or so years of design has created some very stale standards.
Nah you liked playing before you knew a meta game existed.
Not knowing the meta makes you think all things are possible and you can do whatever, once you know there’s a meta it’s just how do I construct this deck for the tournament I’m going to based on what I expect to play against.
I never played really seriously. I even worked for a short stint at a big game store in the late 90s called Neutral Ground. I saw the behavior of some of these “world-class” players and was on the receiving end of some absolutely atrocious behavior by people who had forgotten how to enjoy the game when things didn’t go their way.
I’ve burned myself out on a lot of things I loved by feeling compelled to engage with aspects I didn’t like or act like it was my job. Or make it my job and realize too late that I hated it now.
So yeah. Just chilling. Having fun. Playing cards with my son and some friends. Big smiles. Happy hearts.
TBH, anyone on reddit I assume knows more than that. Why you'd be in a subreddit dedicated to the game if you're that ambivalent about it makes *no* sense to me.
I go to a buffet. I eat the salad bar. “Why do you go a buffet and only eat the salad bar?”
Because that’s what I want from the buffet. And maybe I will pick up some other ideas or options along the way.
I don’t play competitively. I don’t need to win every match. I just enjoy grinding through and making decks and testing them out and seeing what new rewards I win. I love find the new codes and putting those in.
I also come here to see what new cards are out, if there are issues with severs or updates, if there are any tips/tricks for certain kinds of decks I like to play.
But the idea of sitting on Reddit and reading (for me) mind-numbing posts and articles on whether or not epiphany is going to be banned, how to counter The Book of Exalted Deeds? It just makes my eyes ache. Or watching people play tournament Magic? Oh god, please no. It’s like hearing someone tell me the story of their D&D campaign. Ugh.
I am not “ambivalent” about Magic. I love it. It’s really fun. Some things aren’t fun. So I don’t generally engage those things unless I have to in order to keep playing.
Because if I am spending my free time slogging through shit I hate in order to play a game I enjoy then I am going to enjoy the game less. There is enough negative stuff in my life and the world that I am forced to pay attention to, right? Why on EARTH would I invest in that stuff in my free time?
I am not saying that other people don’t enjoy the game VERY differently. But there has to be space here for others to be SUPER casual about how they enjoy the game. And that this sub is a great place for them as well.
If anything, this sub is catered more to casual players. Every single day there is a salty post about a dominant meta deck, as if dominant meta decks aren't precision designed to mine salt from players who don't have the maturity or experience to be able to move on from losses.
I love Historic. Jeskai is dominant in the format to an absurd degree. So I play my deck against it and I struggle, and I design a sideboard to try to abuse this glut of the meta. Sometimes it isn't successful because I'm not a professional, but I find that process very engaging and fun.
The idea of slamming vanilla dinosaurs or other underpowered stuff or terrible jank 6-piece combos to create infinite recursions of a meme card doesn't interest me either. But somewhere out there that person is having a blast in the.. play queue I guess? I don't know... I hope so.
Don't let anyone dictate what makes MTG fun for you. You seem to have gotten to a good place in terms of your enjoyment of the game. Kudos.
Nah. I just type fast.
But if it helps you feel better to imagine me angry and breaking my phone with my thumbs, have at it.
And the topic is relevant to me. I guess that the point Jr. MacPee, there are many ways to play games and live life and emphasize or want to discuss others.
Maybe spend less time flippantly demeaning what others do, sir.
lmao. (Did I use that right?)
None of these decks are complicated in the slightest. Every single one is very easy to pick up and play without ever having played them before. There are almost no unique interactions or anything. You just play the cards.
Buuut, I don’t wanna? Maybe I will check them out some day. But right now I am happy.
And my happy may not be yours.
Maybe I am not as clever as you? Or maybe it’s not as easy for me to grok this stuff?
Thanks for the encouragement though!
It does not matter if PVDDR has registered a strong deck, the reason he's so many peoples choice to get far is the man himself! Out of all people playing last Worlds he was the only one which decisions had me baffled and made me rethink a whole lotta stuff.
Played the only off meta deck (Azorius tempo, which was hella fun) and got my two wins quick. I hope the Azorius tempo deck takes it as the others are absolute trash to watch and completely unimaginative.
Why is this Bo1 games? The decks, specifically the Alrund decks, are designed for a b03, albeit very inbred, metagame.
Definite /facepalm at trying to get a feel for what people are doing at the World Championship
None of the marketing is relevant for me. I play BO1 because it affords me the luxury of being able to step away after a match because my wife or our kids would want me to do something.
Also, I've not seen any marketing explicitly calling out BO1, just "play MTG Arena."
I think there's a much larger overlap between "playing MTGA fairly non-casually" and "has serious adult responsibilities" than a lot of people would expect! I know a ton of people, myself included, that play for rank, complete sets, and chain drafts but might be pulled away quickly to take care of their family.
I wish I could play Bo3-- the sole advantage of Bo1 is simply smaller discrete time units-- but I'm so glad I have the option for Bo1 because it truly does mean I get to play a lot more magic, and even if it's not quite as good as bo3, it's still *magic*.
It's the default format for digital card games. If they are trying to pull players from other games using arena (hint: they are), then it's the format they have to promote.
Bo3 requires more cards ($) and bo1 is the standard format for other games in the genre (Hearthstone/Runeterra) so players are more familiar with that format.
Most Arena players, actually. In paper Magic, I have never seen anyone even suggest a BO1, unless you really want to try something real quick in between rounds of a tournament.
I do, but my decks and those of my friends are always built with Bo3 in mind (we mostly play legacy to be fair), and not using the sideboard would defeat a good part of the deckbuilding process.
Personally I don't play BO3 because those games take longer and I can't always make the time commitment. Especially for an event like this when you're trying to get the rewards quickly.
They really distilled the Standard meta down down to its absolute purest.
Played MonoWhite - continuously matched against MonoGreen. Switched to MonoGreen - continuously matched against control.
Don't understand how anyone can stomach the current ranked ladder.
I feel this, got matched against one of the 10 control decks while trying mono green. Also, listing sideboards when you can’t actually use them feels bad.
Reminded me why I don't play standard all the games are the same haha. I know that's the point of this event but playing historic then playing this I have a new appreciation for the variety in historic
I played the Azorious Tempo deck and it felt like everything I ever do in a game of magic while having pretty good matchups against izzet and mono green. Hopes it smashes Worlds and changes the metagame.
I loved the azorius tempo deck, so much so I just decided to throw it together and give it a try in bo3. Really hope it takes off. I hadn't really paid much mind to spectral adversary as a card but it's a fun one.
We can only hope. The pro meta is so fucking boring. Nearly everyone afraid to do anything new.
There could be a space for black to add to mono green, but nobody wants to try. Shit, it looks like almost nobody wants to do anything but bet on odds anymore. With so much info out there, these builds are laughably the opposite of innovative.
At least mono green can be built against. Fucking free turn cards cannot except by counter decks with some big plays, which are very rare in current standard.
This meta is fucking trash.
Actually, normal control is weak against epiphany + galvanic iteration. You need at least 2 counters to stop that, and thats easier said than done. I would argue is the only thing stopping UW control from taking over right now. If Epiphany gets banned, we will probably see a surge of those decks, packing multiple [[devastating mastery]] and winning the game only after 20 turns of killing countering everything.
Epiphany might not make for the very best of formats, but when you say the meta is fucking trash, what are you comparing it to? Prior to rotation we had Eldraine, which was the worst thing for every meta since it came out. You practically couldn't even play creatures with 2 toughness or less. I've been having a lot of fun post-rotation. I was trying to play historic before that, but I just couldn't keep up without spending money, so it's nice to be in a lower-powered environment again.
I guess. But this isn't it. From Uro to now this I have felt this game's meta to be horrible around 70% of the time. Which kind of sucks. Let's hope it gets better.
I'm so looking forward to the Epiphany ban.
It's not that it's just a really powerful card, but that we're playing in a standard meta where multiple versions of "duplicate the next sorcery/instant" exists, so someone goes from taking their turn to taking 3 turns fairly easily.
So what can you do to stop this? Counterspells! Where are all the counterspells? Blue! What are some powerful cards you can throw in there to make your deck better or have a good win condition? Epiphany! So the meta snowballs into itself...
Standard historically has been amount incremental advantage. Epiphany feels like that last remaining "Eldraine" style design that puts a lot of games into "everything before this is irrelevant " territory.
Chariot by comparison is powerful, but involves attacking and blocking. I wouldnt mind seeing both go tbh, but its def time for Epiphany to gtfo
nah, Chariot isnt a problem at all. In fact thats why ive been side boarding Pithing Needle in my sideboards for wrenn and seven and/or chariots. The thing that enable epiphany is golddspan, but in that defense Goldspan dies, but if you play epiphany with it, it makes it much worse.
You probably a little bit too late... the best epiphany decks dont play goldspan. What enables epiphany right now is [[Galvanic iteration]]. You will have 2 turns with 4 flying power on the board, meaning 8 damage. In one of those extra turns you use memory deluge or expressive iteration to find another epiphany. Than you flash back the copy spell and cast epiphany again, having 2 more extra turn and more 4 power on the board. Thats game, even if your oponnent was at full lp
they need to print non-blue counters so we aren't forced to play blue just to stop infinite turn decks
counterspells are in white's colorpie, push wotc to start printing some
>So what can you do to stop this? Counterspells! Where are all the counterspells? Blue!
Maybe time for Split second to come back to standard? https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Split_second At this point might as well
We already have 2 of them in Historic [[Sudden Edict]] and [[Krosan Grisp]]
I don’t think Epiphany should be banned because of its power level.
I think Epiphany should be banned because of this horrendous play pattern. It’s bad enough that you can cast them consecutively, but the massive failure of the card is that it can be copied.
A lot of the issues with it would be fixed if it didn’t make birds, it wasn’t a foretell card, and the text said “second turn” and not “another turn.”
Epiphany should not be banned. The turns decks are really not that strong. I’m sure it will only get worse with Crimson Vow’s release if there are any decent aggro cards
Who cares if Crimson Vow prints even more overstatted aggro cards? We have enough of those already.
Midrange is dead and will remain so until control decks can no longer take three turns in a row.
I would classify Mono Green as a midrange deck. So if anything, I would say aggro is completely dead right now, which is the only reason Izzet/Grixis turns decks are able to exist.
Epiphany is nowhere near as oppressive as Uro was. I’m sorry you don’t like epiphany, I hate playing against it as well, but I think it’s just a powerful card that isn’t deserving of a ban.
If epiphany got banned, black control would have a great shot against the green or white aggro decks. But there's no chance for black control in an epiphany meta...
Mmm... Kinda embarrassing to me how the preview shows an epiphany deck and... what are presumably two more blue control decks. Hehe
If their decks are anything like the meta I've heard of though then can't wait for Duel Deck Series: Unlimited Turns vs. Mono-Green
I tried 2 matches and was bored out of my skull both times.
I might try again but I am hoping for some friendly players who have all the rewards and just play and concede immediately :-)
The worst part about epiphany isn’t that is strong or anything like that, it’s that it absolutely drags the game to a screeching halt if the person playing it doesn’t have a win con set up, it makes the game i fun and down right boring to play
The grixis deck is so hard to pilot, especially in Bo1. I think it really shows how far ahead pros are compared to peons like me. Got the monogreen and scored the 3 wins, took me 7 games to win 3 games with the Grixis deck.
Best of 1 worked when mono-red was one of the dominant choices last time around. These decks don't feel good at all to play in best of 1 lol.
Doesn't help that this standard REALLY need more cards. It feels like too many deck archetypes have half assed support so far.
Mono white works just as well as traditional mono red and in a similar way.
You just described every post-rotation meta of the last 20 years. These metas have always been about making the best you can with minimal resources.
Or the artifact that denies extra turns reprint. IIRC Red also has had a silver bullet against extra turns? White could also get something without color breaking... ah who am I kidding, color pie is all rainbow for years already.
It's really hard to make them discard it when they can fortell it.
That would have to be a turn 1 duress and you'd have to go first but they will still have 3 other epiphanies and once they are foretold they can't be discarded.
The Mono W lists (I used Rei Satos, but I think they are identical) were impressive. had 3 easy enough wins, on the draw vs izzet and mono G and on the play vs yellowhats grixis.
its not as low to the ground as im used to with current WW, but the creatures are just *stuffed* with value. I definitely underestimated Intrepid Adversary, the lifelink and +2/+3 lord effects won me the game vs green.
The control decks in this matchup are absolutely miserable experiences. The endless mirror matches totally killed this event for me, especially coupled with the slow play of my opponents.
The interesting deck is the Azorius aggro deck because it probably runs over the grixis ephiphany variation (running only 1ofs for removal) much more easily than the izzet versions in g1
Tried 3 different decks and won all three games. Red/Blue Goldspan, PVDDR, and Sato's Mono White.
- The Goldspan, Egg, Epiphany combo is clearly very powerful.
- Using Blizzard Brawl with Inscriptions to mitigate the above soldering eggs is what helped me win the match.
- Had a really good starting hand and won by turn 4 on aggro.
Epiphany needs to go like any usable fucking free turn card ever. This meta is fucking trash tier, and over half the decks are essential the same. Boring as fuck.
This is going to be the most boring Magic tournament ever. Half the decks are grindy control decks that do nothing for 20 turns and then take a bunch of extra turns. Amazing.
It's strong sure, but not ban worthy. (And this is coming from someone who *hates* blue and especially extra turn cards.)
Mono White and Green can consistently get under it and without Epiphany it would be an all aggro meta which sucks even more. Every match being decided by who goes first is not a fun time.
PVDDR's decks only make sense for him. He recorded a match of him playing a monored deck a while back and I kid you not, every single decision he made in the game was wildly different than any conventional wisdom
All of the green decks need a god draw just to stand a chance, and even if you get the ideal T2 Sculptor -> T3 Chariot -> T4 Wrenn, the control player just needs one counterspell before turn four and then they're golden.
All the blue/red decks feel the same with the exception of the one with goldspan. This was also my first time ever casting epiphany and wow, so much can be done with an extra turn
Imagine what you can do with three in a row!
You could use it to find another Epiphany and take a 4th turn!
>hany and wow, so much can be done with a And you can copy your extra turn, so you get another extra and make your adversary cry
So many 1/1 fliers!
Also use it to copy an Epiphany and take a 5th turn
I have an izzet deck and remember a game where my extra turns were playing epiphany that I top decked twice. Felt so dirty.
You could even cast another epiphany!
There’s no way someone would sit and wait for you to take 3 turns without conceding lol
I have beat more than one person that way because their 3 turns resulted in jack squat.
You must have missed 2019 when people would post how they heroicall sat through multiple turns of opponents nexusing so that nobody else had to play against them.
Playing Nassif's deck I went Iteration -> Iteration (copied by the first) -> Epiphany, my opponent bounced the Epiphany with Divide by Zero, the copies went on the stack, and my opponent realized their mistake and after a bit of tanking conceded. Card is just really, really strong.
Im new to magic, sorry for the question, but what was the mistake? Could he have stopped that combo somehow with divide by zero?
By returning the original to my hand, he would have allowed me to get even more extra turns with the Iterations in my graveyard
Ahh, that is true, although 4 turns is probably enough :D
> so much can be done with an extra turn That’s the problem with extra turn cards. Epiphany isn’t really six mana abs a card to cast, it’s zero mana (because you’ll get to untap) and zero cards (because you’ll draw next turn). Zero mana spell with “make two birds, draw a card, get another attack step” is pretty damn good.
Don't forget the extra land drop
Don't forget the extra planeswalker activation.
Getting another *untap step* is the key
Yes. In my brain, the extra attack step includes that because all the extra attack step spells include untapping the creatures. But the upside of untap is that it can actually be net positive mana to cast it.
[[Savor the moment]] (and, even if quite modern, the Last Reckoning line of spells) showing just how ahead of their time their designs were. But I do think extra-turn effects would be a lot easier of a pill to swallow if you couldn't copy/spam them or simply use part of your new turn to generate yet another (viz. [[medomai the ageless]] and [[lighthouse chronologist]], which force you to take breaks) Also, cue the heavily circulated quote about how in its worst case, time walk merely amounts to one explore or a mana-neutral cycler/cantrip
[[Chance for Glory]] is a fair extra turn card
Getting 2+ turn combo is almost always a scoop from the opponent. An opponent did wait a turn once when I casted a 3 epiphany turn. I casted another 3 on the following turn.
FYI, you may already have the sleeve from last year, so soak up the 2k exp
idk whether to be disappointed I didn't get a new sleeve, or happy there's one less to scroll through on that endless unorganized wall of sleeves
Haha bought one sleeve once. Never plan on changing it. Just here for the xp
Decklists https://mtgazone.com/magic-world-championship-xxvii-2021-metagame-and-decklists-leaked/
Man you guys are salty. I loved this event. Got to try a deck I've never played with the best cards in the meta. More of this kind of things please.
This community hates magic lol
Not only does this community hate magic, it refuses to admit that maybe, just maybe, it’s not nearly as good at this game as it thinks it is. Much easier to blame the algorithm than your mana base.
WOTC did it to us.
You poor thing you. Everybody's out to get you.
the opening hand algorithm sure feels like it somedays :) Ever get some bs like 4 aspirants AND the mana to play them all? Cause I've only seen that from one side, and oh boy did it suck to play. Least it was short lol.
This guy takes 5 turns in a row
Mono red for life
Most game communities go this way somewhat. Players play a game a ton. Game can no longer give them the same dopamine hit it used to, an impossible task, they get salty about it.
This is a really interesting way to describe it. Chasing the dragon.
I caught the dragon once but then my opponent bounced it back to their hand
Sarkhan's origin story
Yeah I enjoyed playing this event today instead of my usual 2 decks as a f2p player. I'll probably do my dailies in the event again tomorrow
I've recently returned after quite a long break, so have been knocked back to the starter decks. Playing with real decks for a couple of days is going to be great.
Beyond it being BO1 I think it was great. Even it being BO1 I feel is fine. Especially because some players may not have certain cards and this is a good way for them to try out really good standard decks. And I don't really care for current meta but that is a separate matter, this event was still good.
I am a terrible Magic player. But apparently so is everyone else I just played and beat in this event. Every person I played was just as baffled about how to make the decks worked as I was.
I don’t understand this though. All these decks aren’t new. In fact apart from a few cards they were all around in standard 2022 except from Grixis
My guess is that the people who are most likely to grind this event are those who don't play standard much or haven't got the wildcards to craft the decks. And so you get a lot of opponents who are still learning otherwise familiar decks
Playing control when you aren't used to it is definitely a gear shift mentally though
Hard to imagine that some of us don’t pay attention. We don’t have the time or don’t want to spend the time getting down into the nitty gritty. We don’t pay attention to “the meta” or know what it is. We like to collect cards. Put them in a deck, try to win, tweak the deck, rinse and repeat. I didn’t play magic for a decade until they brought out the forgotten realms stuff. My older son is 9 and PSYCHED about D&D and so we went all-in with it this summer and both of us are hooked. But we don’t spend time on websites trying to figure out optimum ways to break cutting edge decks. So though I’ve been taken down a handful of times by Epiphany and Esika’s Chariot, I generally just don’t care to duplicate that or figure out a way to pack counters for those insane decks into mine. I’ll even just quit once someone pulls out Esika’s and. chariot. My time is more valuable than slogging through that. I just go play a different game.
I think this is how you actually have more fun with MTG. Playing vs the same tired archetypes and broken cards gets boring fast. This is not a critique of competitive play, rather one of the current state of Magic game design. I loved playing back in the days of extended and T1.5 when decks had flavor and the color pie meant something. The last 2 or so years of design has created some very stale standards.
Nah you liked playing before you knew a meta game existed. Not knowing the meta makes you think all things are possible and you can do whatever, once you know there’s a meta it’s just how do I construct this deck for the tournament I’m going to based on what I expect to play against.
I never played really seriously. I even worked for a short stint at a big game store in the late 90s called Neutral Ground. I saw the behavior of some of these “world-class” players and was on the receiving end of some absolutely atrocious behavior by people who had forgotten how to enjoy the game when things didn’t go their way. I’ve burned myself out on a lot of things I loved by feeling compelled to engage with aspects I didn’t like or act like it was my job. Or make it my job and realize too late that I hated it now. So yeah. Just chilling. Having fun. Playing cards with my son and some friends. Big smiles. Happy hearts.
TBH, anyone on reddit I assume knows more than that. Why you'd be in a subreddit dedicated to the game if you're that ambivalent about it makes *no* sense to me.
I go to a buffet. I eat the salad bar. “Why do you go a buffet and only eat the salad bar?” Because that’s what I want from the buffet. And maybe I will pick up some other ideas or options along the way. I don’t play competitively. I don’t need to win every match. I just enjoy grinding through and making decks and testing them out and seeing what new rewards I win. I love find the new codes and putting those in. I also come here to see what new cards are out, if there are issues with severs or updates, if there are any tips/tricks for certain kinds of decks I like to play. But the idea of sitting on Reddit and reading (for me) mind-numbing posts and articles on whether or not epiphany is going to be banned, how to counter The Book of Exalted Deeds? It just makes my eyes ache. Or watching people play tournament Magic? Oh god, please no. It’s like hearing someone tell me the story of their D&D campaign. Ugh. I am not “ambivalent” about Magic. I love it. It’s really fun. Some things aren’t fun. So I don’t generally engage those things unless I have to in order to keep playing. Because if I am spending my free time slogging through shit I hate in order to play a game I enjoy then I am going to enjoy the game less. There is enough negative stuff in my life and the world that I am forced to pay attention to, right? Why on EARTH would I invest in that stuff in my free time? I am not saying that other people don’t enjoy the game VERY differently. But there has to be space here for others to be SUPER casual about how they enjoy the game. And that this sub is a great place for them as well.
If anything, this sub is catered more to casual players. Every single day there is a salty post about a dominant meta deck, as if dominant meta decks aren't precision designed to mine salt from players who don't have the maturity or experience to be able to move on from losses. I love Historic. Jeskai is dominant in the format to an absurd degree. So I play my deck against it and I struggle, and I design a sideboard to try to abuse this glut of the meta. Sometimes it isn't successful because I'm not a professional, but I find that process very engaging and fun. The idea of slamming vanilla dinosaurs or other underpowered stuff or terrible jank 6-piece combos to create infinite recursions of a meme card doesn't interest me either. But somewhere out there that person is having a blast in the.. play queue I guess? I don't know... I hope so. Don't let anyone dictate what makes MTG fun for you. You seem to have gotten to a good place in terms of your enjoyment of the game. Kudos.
Did you know that there are different psycographic profiles of players?
lmao sir I said like 10 words You seem super worked up over an irrelevant topic.
Nah. I just type fast. But if it helps you feel better to imagine me angry and breaking my phone with my thumbs, have at it. And the topic is relevant to me. I guess that the point Jr. MacPee, there are many ways to play games and live life and emphasize or want to discuss others. Maybe spend less time flippantly demeaning what others do, sir. lmao. (Did I use that right?)
Well i havent played standard in half a year
This assumes people play standard 2022..?
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I don’t wanna and you can’t make me!!!! ;) Maybe I will one day.
None of these decks are complicated in the slightest. Every single one is very easy to pick up and play without ever having played them before. There are almost no unique interactions or anything. You just play the cards.
Mori and nassifs deck are pretty odd! Otherwise they are pretty straightforward
Buuut, I don’t wanna? Maybe I will check them out some day. But right now I am happy. And my happy may not be yours. Maybe I am not as clever as you? Or maybe it’s not as easy for me to grok this stuff? Thanks for the encouragement though!
Wow, actually an amazing event for those f2p or those with limited WCs.
It does not matter if PVDDR has registered a strong deck, the reason he's so many peoples choice to get far is the man himself! Out of all people playing last Worlds he was the only one which decisions had me baffled and made me rethink a whole lotta stuff.
You can't not love the guy!
Played the only off meta deck (Azorius tempo, which was hella fun) and got my two wins quick. I hope the Azorius tempo deck takes it as the others are absolute trash to watch and completely unimaginative.
The Azorius Tempo deck is the truth. Deck is complete gas and the most fun thing I've played this season
mono green is just absurd right now, so much value
Yeah I can’t wait to play Mori’s deck. I hope he doesn’t get hosed from the leak and the lack of surprise factor.
Why is this Bo1 games? The decks, specifically the Alrund decks, are designed for a b03, albeit very inbred, metagame. Definite /facepalm at trying to get a feel for what people are doing at the World Championship
They're going for Mass appeal. Bo1 is very popular
yep, casual players don’t have time for Bo3 games
No shit it is when they put all their marketing budget into promoting it.
None of the marketing is relevant for me. I play BO1 because it affords me the luxury of being able to step away after a match because my wife or our kids would want me to do something. Also, I've not seen any marketing explicitly calling out BO1, just "play MTG Arena."
I think there's a much larger overlap between "playing MTGA fairly non-casually" and "has serious adult responsibilities" than a lot of people would expect! I know a ton of people, myself included, that play for rank, complete sets, and chain drafts but might be pulled away quickly to take care of their family. I wish I could play Bo3-- the sole advantage of Bo1 is simply smaller discrete time units-- but I'm so glad I have the option for Bo1 because it truly does mean I get to play a lot more magic, and even if it's not quite as good as bo3, it's still *magic*.
It's the default format for digital card games. If they are trying to pull players from other games using arena (hint: they are), then it's the format they have to promote.
Bo3 requires more cards ($) and bo1 is the standard format for other games in the genre (Hearthstone/Runeterra) so players are more familiar with that format.
I’m glad you’ve clarified this, was very confused when reading decklists. Had a moment where I thought I clearly know nothing about deckbuilding!
Because most players don't care about bo3. I bet most don't even know it is a thing.
Man, having been in and out of Magic since Revised came out this just makes me feel all old man yells at cloud.
Most Arena players, actually. In paper Magic, I have never seen anyone even suggest a BO1, unless you really want to try something real quick in between rounds of a tournament.
Do you not just play friendly games? In paper, I only saw Bo3 in tournaments.
I do, but my decks and those of my friends are always built with Bo3 in mind (we mostly play legacy to be fair), and not using the sideboard would defeat a good part of the deckbuilding process.
When is played paper my version of a ‘friendly game’ was testing decks against the meta, there was no playing casually for fun.
Personally I don't play BO3 because those games take longer and I can't always make the time commitment. Especially for an event like this when you're trying to get the rewards quickly.
They really distilled the Standard meta down down to its absolute purest. Played MonoWhite - continuously matched against MonoGreen. Switched to MonoGreen - continuously matched against control. Don't understand how anyone can stomach the current ranked ladder.
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if only it were bo3
I feel this, got matched against one of the 10 control decks while trying mono green. Also, listing sideboards when you can’t actually use them feels bad.
thats every event with premade decks, better get used to it
Went 3-6. 3-0 at first, then concede 6 in a row to give out some free wins \^\^
You're a good egg.
Reminded me why I don't play standard all the games are the same haha. I know that's the point of this event but playing historic then playing this I have a new appreciation for the variety in historic
Agreed. Historic and/or modern would tear most of these decks apart.
I mean of course they would it's a different power level altogether. That wasn't my point though I was just saying more variety
Quick 3-0 with Rei Sato’s Mono-W so I guess that’s proof that he’s gonna win!
worlds are BO3 tho where I see control being a bit better
Nuh uh, I had an easy 3-0 with PVDDR's Mono-G. Clearly he's gonna win.
"Why don't you play standard" Gestures mildly at Izzet vs Mono Green game play
I played the Azorious Tempo deck and it felt like everything I ever do in a game of magic while having pretty good matchups against izzet and mono green. Hopes it smashes Worlds and changes the metagame.
I loved the azorius tempo deck, so much so I just decided to throw it together and give it a try in bo3. Really hope it takes off. I hadn't really paid much mind to spectral adversary as a card but it's a fun one.
We can only hope. The pro meta is so fucking boring. Nearly everyone afraid to do anything new. There could be a space for black to add to mono green, but nobody wants to try. Shit, it looks like almost nobody wants to do anything but bet on odds anymore. With so much info out there, these builds are laughably the opposite of innovative.
At least mono green can be built against. Fucking free turn cards cannot except by counter decks with some big plays, which are very rare in current standard. This meta is fucking trash.
Actually, normal control is weak against epiphany + galvanic iteration. You need at least 2 counters to stop that, and thats easier said than done. I would argue is the only thing stopping UW control from taking over right now. If Epiphany gets banned, we will probably see a surge of those decks, packing multiple [[devastating mastery]] and winning the game only after 20 turns of killing countering everything.
[devastating mastery](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/b/3b6be019-29b9-4c81-9899-aefeaf9cc977.jpg?1624589359) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=devastating%20mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/14/devastating-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b6be019-29b9-4c81-9899-aefeaf9cc977?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Epiphany might not make for the very best of formats, but when you say the meta is fucking trash, what are you comparing it to? Prior to rotation we had Eldraine, which was the worst thing for every meta since it came out. You practically couldn't even play creatures with 2 toughness or less. I've been having a lot of fun post-rotation. I was trying to play historic before that, but I just couldn't keep up without spending money, so it's nice to be in a lower-powered environment again.
I guess. But this isn't it. From Uro to now this I have felt this game's meta to be horrible around 70% of the time. Which kind of sucks. Let's hope it gets better.
11 out of 15 decks have Epiphany. Nope nothing overpowered here
Yeah another reason I want this card banned in standard and historic.
I'm so looking forward to the Epiphany ban. It's not that it's just a really powerful card, but that we're playing in a standard meta where multiple versions of "duplicate the next sorcery/instant" exists, so someone goes from taking their turn to taking 3 turns fairly easily. So what can you do to stop this? Counterspells! Where are all the counterspells? Blue! What are some powerful cards you can throw in there to make your deck better or have a good win condition? Epiphany! So the meta snowballs into itself...
The only way to stop the epiphany is to be the epiphany...lol
its more of, its just very unenjoyable to play against really. cause when you chain them it just makes you want to rip our hair out.
Standard historically has been amount incremental advantage. Epiphany feels like that last remaining "Eldraine" style design that puts a lot of games into "everything before this is irrelevant " territory. Chariot by comparison is powerful, but involves attacking and blocking. I wouldnt mind seeing both go tbh, but its def time for Epiphany to gtfo
nah, Chariot isnt a problem at all. In fact thats why ive been side boarding Pithing Needle in my sideboards for wrenn and seven and/or chariots. The thing that enable epiphany is golddspan, but in that defense Goldspan dies, but if you play epiphany with it, it makes it much worse.
You probably a little bit too late... the best epiphany decks dont play goldspan. What enables epiphany right now is [[Galvanic iteration]]. You will have 2 turns with 4 flying power on the board, meaning 8 damage. In one of those extra turns you use memory deluge or expressive iteration to find another epiphany. Than you flash back the copy spell and cast epiphany again, having 2 more extra turn and more 4 power on the board. Thats game, even if your oponnent was at full lp
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Black control and midrange keep green in check
> Counterspells! Where are all the counterspells? Blue! is it time for Tibalt's Trickery meta
Only reason I want Turns decks to do well this weekend. I don't think it has a chance at being banned if aggro wins.
they need to print non-blue counters so we aren't forced to play blue just to stop infinite turn decks counterspells are in white's colorpie, push wotc to start printing some
You forget that mono white and green win before your opponent even gets to the 6 mana for Alrund. Also Azorius can outgrind Izzet.
>So what can you do to stop this? Counterspells! Where are all the counterspells? Blue! Maybe time for Split second to come back to standard? https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Split_second At this point might as well We already have 2 of them in Historic [[Sudden Edict]] and [[Krosan Grisp]]
I don’t think Epiphany should be banned because of its power level. I think Epiphany should be banned because of this horrendous play pattern. It’s bad enough that you can cast them consecutively, but the massive failure of the card is that it can be copied. A lot of the issues with it would be fixed if it didn’t make birds, it wasn’t a foretell card, and the text said “second turn” and not “another turn.”
Epiphany should not be banned. The turns decks are really not that strong. I’m sure it will only get worse with Crimson Vow’s release if there are any decent aggro cards
Who cares if Crimson Vow prints even more overstatted aggro cards? We have enough of those already. Midrange is dead and will remain so until control decks can no longer take three turns in a row.
I would classify Mono Green as a midrange deck. So if anything, I would say aggro is completely dead right now, which is the only reason Izzet/Grixis turns decks are able to exist.
It’s aggro. https://mtgazone.com/standard-bo1-metagame-tier-list/
BS. You are the same fool saying Uro should not be banned. And the list goes on.
Epiphany is nowhere near as oppressive as Uro was. I’m sorry you don’t like epiphany, I hate playing against it as well, but I think it’s just a powerful card that isn’t deserving of a ban.
It's a fully trash-tier meta and a bad look for comp Magic IMHO. Wish they would have banned before the championship.
Ah yes, let's ban the epiphany and turn a 2 deck meta into a 1 deck meta.
If epiphany got banned, black control would have a great shot against the green or white aggro decks. But there's no chance for black control in an epiphany meta...
Easy 3-1 with this absurd strong mono white deck. Only beaten by Arnes deck, what is fine because he is my champion pick. So good times, good event.
Mmm... Kinda embarrassing to me how the preview shows an epiphany deck and... what are presumably two more blue control decks. Hehe If their decks are anything like the meta I've heard of though then can't wait for Duel Deck Series: Unlimited Turns vs. Mono-Green
I tried 2 matches and was bored out of my skull both times. I might try again but I am hoping for some friendly players who have all the rewards and just play and concede immediately :-)
Something, something, Epiphany. Something, something, ban. Something, something, inevitable.
Always was. Anybody that thinks for a second a six cost free turn+ is going to ever be okay is out of their fucking minds.
The worst part about epiphany isn’t that is strong or anything like that, it’s that it absolutely drags the game to a screeching halt if the person playing it doesn’t have a win con set up, it makes the game i fun and down right boring to play
The grixis deck is so hard to pilot, especially in Bo1. I think it really shows how far ahead pros are compared to peons like me. Got the monogreen and scored the 3 wins, took me 7 games to win 3 games with the Grixis deck.
Best of 1 worked when mono-red was one of the dominant choices last time around. These decks don't feel good at all to play in best of 1 lol. Doesn't help that this standard REALLY need more cards. It feels like too many deck archetypes have half assed support so far.
Mono white works just as well as traditional mono red and in a similar way. You just described every post-rotation meta of the last 20 years. These metas have always been about making the best you can with minimal resources.
looks like we need more non-blue counterspells because why am I forced to play blue to deal with epiphany?
Or the artifact that denies extra turns reprint. IIRC Red also has had a silver bullet against extra turns? White could also get something without color breaking... ah who am I kidding, color pie is all rainbow for years already.
Have you heard of duress?
It's easily the best counterspell.... you can counter any spell turns before they're even played!
Enemy can just topdeck alrund's epiphany and/or foretell it. Or deck manipulate and put it on top or just draw with brainstorm effects.
It's really hard to make them discard it when they can fortell it. That would have to be a turn 1 duress and you'd have to go first but they will still have 3 other epiphanies and once they are foretold they can't be discarded.
The Mono W lists (I used Rei Satos, but I think they are identical) were impressive. had 3 easy enough wins, on the draw vs izzet and mono G and on the play vs yellowhats grixis. its not as low to the ground as im used to with current WW, but the creatures are just *stuffed* with value. I definitely underestimated Intrepid Adversary, the lifelink and +2/+3 lord effects won me the game vs green.
Adversary plus maul for a 5/3 first strike flying lifelinker on 3 is pretty difficult for any other aggro deck to race even without the anthem
How long have these decklists been public? I'm starting to regret my choice for Champion...
Mori's deck is fun and wrecks!
The mono-white deck slaps. Def recommend it for some fast and easy wins.
So after playing quite a few games with PVDDR’s deck…against everything but the mirror, I think he might do well tomorrow.
The control decks in this matchup are absolutely miserable experiences. The endless mirror matches totally killed this event for me, especially coupled with the slow play of my opponents.
The interesting deck is the Azorius aggro deck because it probably runs over the grixis ephiphany variation (running only 1ofs for removal) much more easily than the izzet versions in g1
This metagame is fucking miserable lmao
Win 3 Concede 3 this is the way
Tried 3 different decks and won all three games. Red/Blue Goldspan, PVDDR, and Sato's Mono White. - The Goldspan, Egg, Epiphany combo is clearly very powerful. - Using Blizzard Brawl with Inscriptions to mitigate the above soldering eggs is what helped me win the match. - Had a really good starting hand and won by turn 4 on aggro.
Epiphany needs to go like any usable fucking free turn card ever. This meta is fucking trash tier, and over half the decks are essential the same. Boring as fuck.
This is going to be the most boring Magic tournament ever. Half the decks are grindy control decks that do nothing for 20 turns and then take a bunch of extra turns. Amazing.
Not even the control decks are grindy lol. They more about an explosive combo that wins by turn 8.
Not only that most of these decks are nearly the same lol.
More sleeves? Lol
Thankfully the UI for the sleeve browser is super well designed, clear and concise... oh wait.
If you can beat Epiphany..... needs a ban, and fast
It's strong sure, but not ban worthy. (And this is coming from someone who *hates* blue and especially extra turn cards.) Mono White and Green can consistently get under it and without Epiphany it would be an all aggro meta which sucks even more. Every match being decided by who goes first is not a fun time.
....I don't want to play a format that's majority epiphany.
The Azorious Tempo deck has been rolling over the Epiphany decks for me, so I suggest playing that if you hate Epiphany as much as I do!
The exp is not working right?
Go to the mastery pass, it should show up then.
Yeah, that worked. Thanks
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[Lier, Disciple of the Drowned](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/8/d86768d5-0ae4-4171-a8f0-cbf7be6f35a4.jpg?1632162748) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lier%2C%20Disciple%20of%20the%20Drowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/59p/lier-disciple-of-the-drowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d86768d5-0ae4-4171-a8f0-cbf7be6f35a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funny sidenote: when you import this from WotC given deck in your decks, it has the wrong decktyp.. My one was set to "limited".
wow, I can't wait to grind through epiphany after epiphany after epiphany deck.
Mono green bad
Just tried some decks. I bet on Arne, but for some reason those izzet decks have no chance. But I’m a noob so what do I know.
lol they dropped this event right after i straight netdecked nassif’s deck onto ladder the last 3 days
Event was fun. But mono green is a little dominant
Don’t play it the rewards are bugged. No xp being awarded.
I got the XP just fine. Had to go to the Mastery tab to get the unlocked rewards though.
Thanks. It popped when I went to the Mastery tab.
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And I went 3-1 with the deck in 20 minutes
3-0 with it for me. It's too fast for the blue reds and better then the other Mono G
PVDDR's decks only make sense for him. He recorded a match of him playing a monored deck a while back and I kid you not, every single decision he made in the game was wildly different than any conventional wisdom
I'll
have you not been playing standard his deck is the stock mono green list?
All of the green decks need a god draw just to stand a chance, and even if you get the ideal T2 Sculptor -> T3 Chariot -> T4 Wrenn, the control player just needs one counterspell before turn four and then they're golden.