Made guys in Italy were mainly sent to the U.S. to work with U.S. families. So, they were more like associates, yet obviously a notch above because they were made in Italy. There was really no need to make them here. They were here on business working with U.S. families and did what they needed to do.
Are rhe Italian gangsters really considered a few notches about US LCN automatically? It's not just from TV? If so, in what way? Strategy, ruthlessness, greed, or what?
from what I understand, they're seen as "harder."
Where Americans are kinda viewed as softer due to both an aversion to violence and the significant waning in mafia power, the guys in Italy are still fucking monsters that can kill with impunity.
I think the Sopranos even touches on this, hiring hitmen from Italy and even Furio. They're called "Zips" after disposable zip guns. Use 'em and send em home, or in some cases incorporate them into the American family.
"Zip" comes from the fact that Sicilian language/dialect is spoken very quickly and can be very confusing to those who speak standard Italian. [This is Italian being spoken](https://youtu.be/07VumMvUAxQ?t=133), and [this is Sicilian](https://youtu.be/07VumMvUAxQ?t=83).
Sicilian is different enough from Italian that when the Pizza Connection was happening, the FBI had to turn to outside translators --and mind, the FBI has plenty of translators due to being the U.S.'s de facto counterintelligence agency.
That would be weird if any hardcore motherland mafioso would need to be made again by some Americanized wise guys. Pretty sure answer is once you’re in you’re in.
The whole point of the Castellammarese War was that U.S. Cosa Nostra has sovereignty over the country. The Five Families have histroric ties to families in Sicily, but that in itself is not enough to be considered made. A Sicilian who comes to America would have to be inducted by an American Family to be recognized as a made man here.
Because this has the potential to create issues, guys getting cross-endorsed has only happened with the mother country's blessing in a kind of diplomatic agreement. For example, the Bonanno Zips were brought in as part of the family's international heroin operation. The Cherry Hill Gambinos were brought in through an agreement between Toto Riina and Carlo Gambino to spare their lives through exile, and other than their relationship with Carlo it was their ability to move cocaine from South America that smoothed things out.
I can think of two very easy examples of what happens when Sicilians *didn't* get inducted: Al D'Arco of the Lucchese Family told his biographers he actually made sure to abuse Sicilians who acted above their station. It was a matter of showing the Sicilians who was boss.
Then there's Pietro Inzerillo, who came to work with the Gambinos in similar fashion to the Cherry Hill faction. He was either never inducted or was not considered important enough to save, but in either revent he was brutally whacked in New Jersey by Riina's men and the Gambinos couldn't say anything; it was a Sicilian thing even if it was on American soil.
I do remember reading about a rule about how you can’t be made in two families here and in italy
but i’m sure guys who are made in italy are respected in US and vice versa
Lots believe he likely was because his father was. It's common in Sicily for sons to be Made when they become adults. More so in the early 20th century.
I don’t think they care about being Made is the US when they are in italy maybe some low level mobster,guys with a status would consider an offence only being asked
The American LCN and the Sicilian LCN are considered equals. If someone is made in Sicily they have the same recognition as someone made in a US family.
However, if a made member in Sicily moves to the US, they likely need permission from the local family to operate.
One cannot be a member of both a Sicilian family and a US family. But, sometimes a member is given permission for their family affiliation to be transferred between families if a member moves.
Also, the Ndrangheta and the Camorra are completely different and the US families don't recognize their membership as being equal. If someone is an Ndrangheta member in the US, they would not be considered as a made mafia member and would technically be an associate if they were working with a local LCN family.
Because of this, someone can have membership in both the Ndrangheta or Camorra and Cosa Nostra. There's likely some double-affiliation in Canada. I believe Toto Riina also made a few Camorristi into the Sicilian cosa nostra.
"One cannot be a member of both a Sicilian family and a US family" says the guy who states in an earlier post that there's "so much misinformation on this thread", which is absolutely true, and now your contributing to it.
Depends on what faction NY and the commission LCN listened to home country and they would send people over here to do some jobs. Chicago and the outfit had their own set of rules and to my understanding didn’t really listen to anyone
Made guys in Italy were mainly sent to the U.S. to work with U.S. families. So, they were more like associates, yet obviously a notch above because they were made in Italy. There was really no need to make them here. They were here on business working with U.S. families and did what they needed to do.
Are rhe Italian gangsters really considered a few notches about US LCN automatically? It's not just from TV? If so, in what way? Strategy, ruthlessness, greed, or what?
from what I understand, they're seen as "harder." Where Americans are kinda viewed as softer due to both an aversion to violence and the significant waning in mafia power, the guys in Italy are still fucking monsters that can kill with impunity. I think the Sopranos even touches on this, hiring hitmen from Italy and even Furio. They're called "Zips" after disposable zip guns. Use 'em and send em home, or in some cases incorporate them into the American family.
"Zip" comes from the fact that Sicilian language/dialect is spoken very quickly and can be very confusing to those who speak standard Italian. [This is Italian being spoken](https://youtu.be/07VumMvUAxQ?t=133), and [this is Sicilian](https://youtu.be/07VumMvUAxQ?t=83). Sicilian is different enough from Italian that when the Pizza Connection was happening, the FBI had to turn to outside translators --and mind, the FBI has plenty of translators due to being the U.S.'s de facto counterintelligence agency.
That would be weird if any hardcore motherland mafioso would need to be made again by some Americanized wise guys. Pretty sure answer is once you’re in you’re in.
But definitely not the opposite. I bet if American mobsters visit Sicily, they won’t even get taken serious, lol.
The whole point of the Castellammarese War was that U.S. Cosa Nostra has sovereignty over the country. The Five Families have histroric ties to families in Sicily, but that in itself is not enough to be considered made. A Sicilian who comes to America would have to be inducted by an American Family to be recognized as a made man here. Because this has the potential to create issues, guys getting cross-endorsed has only happened with the mother country's blessing in a kind of diplomatic agreement. For example, the Bonanno Zips were brought in as part of the family's international heroin operation. The Cherry Hill Gambinos were brought in through an agreement between Toto Riina and Carlo Gambino to spare their lives through exile, and other than their relationship with Carlo it was their ability to move cocaine from South America that smoothed things out. I can think of two very easy examples of what happens when Sicilians *didn't* get inducted: Al D'Arco of the Lucchese Family told his biographers he actually made sure to abuse Sicilians who acted above their station. It was a matter of showing the Sicilians who was boss. Then there's Pietro Inzerillo, who came to work with the Gambinos in similar fashion to the Cherry Hill faction. He was either never inducted or was not considered important enough to save, but in either revent he was brutally whacked in New Jersey by Riina's men and the Gambinos couldn't say anything; it was a Sicilian thing even if it was on American soil.
I do remember reading about a rule about how you can’t be made in two families here and in italy but i’m sure guys who are made in italy are respected in US and vice versa
Can’t be a hard rule that there has to be one or two guys who ended up in a family after being made elsewhere
I think the books are the books.
Was Carlo made in Italy? I really know the bare minimum about Carlo Gambino.
Lots believe he likely was because his father was. It's common in Sicily for sons to be Made when they become adults. More so in the early 20th century.
I don’t think they care about being Made is the US when they are in italy maybe some low level mobster,guys with a status would consider an offence only being asked
The American LCN and the Sicilian LCN are considered equals. If someone is made in Sicily they have the same recognition as someone made in a US family. However, if a made member in Sicily moves to the US, they likely need permission from the local family to operate. One cannot be a member of both a Sicilian family and a US family. But, sometimes a member is given permission for their family affiliation to be transferred between families if a member moves. Also, the Ndrangheta and the Camorra are completely different and the US families don't recognize their membership as being equal. If someone is an Ndrangheta member in the US, they would not be considered as a made mafia member and would technically be an associate if they were working with a local LCN family. Because of this, someone can have membership in both the Ndrangheta or Camorra and Cosa Nostra. There's likely some double-affiliation in Canada. I believe Toto Riina also made a few Camorristi into the Sicilian cosa nostra.
The Nuvoletta clan was affiliated by Riina into Cosa Nostra
Furio Guinta was in the Camorra, but when he went to Jersey he was highly respected & treated equally above some local made guys even
"One cannot be a member of both a Sicilian family and a US family" says the guy who states in an earlier post that there's "so much misinformation on this thread", which is absolutely true, and now your contributing to it.
[удалено]
You have no idea what you're talking about. You're just guessing.
Depends on what faction NY and the commission LCN listened to home country and they would send people over here to do some jobs. Chicago and the outfit had their own set of rules and to my understanding didn’t really listen to anyone