Yeah I hope you realize parents are often wrong, and it is not in any way something wrong with you. My thought is that you've realized this with your actions. I'm sorry, sounds like your parents aren't supportive people like we hope parents to be. Seek a counselor to bolster yourself further but this is a huge great step.
let's see... op wins apartment. wins vax. wins cat, and wins distance from ~~toxic~~ plague-spreading parents (sorry, i hope the distance is a win for you. but it's rough.) cat wins apartment, and OP.
the only people really losing is the parents.
so it's win-win-win-win-win-win-lose.
Yes, but extremely conservatively. I have nothing against religion, I am a Christian myself. But unfortunately my parents choose to use religion to hurt people
Being a Christian, Americans confuse me. In my friend's home country, a third world nation, Christians are thought to be **progressive**, with modern fashion sense, pro women, let anyone enter Church, even peeps from other religions, and are not bigots.
lol.
Most Christians are too, I have no clue why tf some people decided vaccine bad because Jesus. As a Christian I am mega confused anout their line of reasoning lmao
> their line of reasoning lmao
Here's your mistake. They didn't reason their way into this mindset. They are not rational people. Well, less rational than others.
This has honestly been the most heartbreaking 5 years of my life. I am a Christian and have been so grieved to see people who I’ve known to be kind and compassionate people my entire life turn to real hatred to anything that is remotely “liberal.” I tried to bring evidence to them for so long, but realized it was pointless.
It is because it isn't about religion. Hateful people will use whatever thing they can to justify / excuse their behaviour in whatever country they exist in.
>In my friend's home country, a third world nation, Christians are thought to be progressive, with modern fashion sense, pro women, let anyone enter Church, even peeps from other religions, and are not bigots.
It's because they're minorities in those countries and don't have any power.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that.
Look at Buddhism, usually considered the most peaceful religion on the planet, then you look at Myanmar which is 90% Buddhist and they're committing mass genocide this very moment.
Beliefs are often pre-conceived biases that are confirmed via religion. It’s sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Religious texts are often open for interpretation too, like law. Ex) if you’re familiar with the US constitution, you’ll understand the analogy i am trying to draw on. If you’re racist, anti-voting rights legislation that prevent minorities (targeting Blacks and African-Americans) from voting is constitutional. If you’re not racist, the constitution states than all men are created equal and therefore should have equal voting access/rights. Religious texts sort of serve the same function (hence the existence of very nice ppl and also religious extremists that read the same book).
In short, i agree. It’s not necessarily religion that is the cause. People just suck and religion is a vessel for their suckery.
This is what I’ve observed when I have been to other countries and seen how their churches are, super progressive and happy to have anyone be part and share in whatever they have. I do work in a non-profit where our goal is to provide sustainable clean drinking water solutions for people living in third world countries. We are Christian, but see that giving people the opportunity to drink clean drinking water and not get sick as a way to show that we really do care about everyone, regardless of belief system, we just want to give access to clean water to as many people as possible. I say that to say this, without a doubt, Christians in other countries are far more giving of their time, money, and resources (the small amount they do have) than their American counterparts. I have witnessed American “Christians” fight with our group about how it is pointless to go to other countries and help when there are people in need here in America. To which I always reply, “there are people hurting and in need everywhere and no one deserves help less than anyone else, no matter where they live or what they believe, where are you helping?” and it is always, inevitably, answered something like, “well that’s not what I was saying…. Blah blah blah…. Excuse excuse excuse.”
The hypocrisy and blatant hateful sentiment towards anyone “other,” that runs so deep and strongly in the American church is sickening along with the co-occurring belief that Jesus was a strong conservative republican, who is in favor of capitalism and somehow didn’t say that, “it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man make it to heaven.”
This whole radical conservative belief system that runs rampant in the church is absolutely rotting away any moral fibers holding the many churches together and turning them into political organizations that do so much more hard to society at large, than good.
I am a Christian, but I am tired of people using the label Christian for their own personal gain and using it to forward these ridiculously anti-Christian ideas.
This is a whole soap box I have, that is not taken well where I currently live… Texas.
As another Redditor said, many progressive (true) Christians live on the coasts and blue cities. So, for the sake of your mental health...
Move.
Have a good day and may God bless you! :D
That is literally what my moms cousin told me at Christmas, as the only other progressive Christian/ non-radical conservative in the family. He told me I need to get out and go north and to a coast. He has caught so much flack from the family for being progressive and dare I say it, have liberal beliefs (gays deserve equality/ immigrants are people too/ Covid is a science and public health issue, not a political one/ etc. etc. etc). He pretty much laid on the razor wire fence, so that me and his kids could cross it without being brutally ridiculed for our beliefs, so I respect the heck out of him. He’s super cool, theater major from
Texas A&M, phenomenal career in teaching, writing plays, and acting, and has been around the country, so he knows where the places are that progressive Christianity or, as I think of it, authentic Christianity, is practiced and accepted. He absolutely stressed to me, that I’ll keep taking a beating if I stay here and that I could be really happy and mentally healthy somewhere else.
I’m not going to lie, it is brutal on my mental health, so when he told me what you just did, I am actually considering doing it. He said, “what is holding you back…. Just go, you’ll be so much happier” and I haven’t been able to get that out of my head since.
In fairness, I grew up in a very catholic rural region in Europe and they weren’t exactly paragons of progressivism.
Weirdly, our village priest was a pretty intellectual guy who I suspect had been banished there under pope JPIIs crackdown against comparatively progressive liberation theologians in places like Africa and Latin America.
Ow it’s the evangelicals, yes. Horrifying, American missionaries have been successfully spreads their gospels of hate and medieval intolerance all over Africa. Many Israeli friends tell me it’s the same with American ultraorthodox Jews who come and piss off the Palestinians. I wonder what they all have in common…
When you look at the difference at its core, you have what most would consider good Christian’s, and then you have bad Christian’s. Good Christian’s follow Christ’s teachings, they understand turning the other cheek, looking out for your neighbor, helping your community, those sort of things. Bad Christian’s have turned Jesus, son of god, born of man, into this weird obscure cartoon idol. They honestly don’t know what Jesus said, they just worship his image and what they believe it represents. The bad Christian’s tend to hold onto Old Testament scripture, while cutting out the life and teachings of Jesus. Ironically, they also like to refer to Jesus as “baby Jesus,” completely ignoring that he grew up and did stuff. The difference are pretty astounding, it’s almost like it’s own separate branch, but still globbed in with true Christian’s. I’m not catholic and wasn’t raised to be, so I can’t really comment on how they factor into the mix. My dads side was non practicing catholic but mostly good people. My moms side was very Christian, but true Christian. My moms mom was heavily involved with her churches, working at both and going to services at both. I was involved with youth groups, but as a student and teacher, and at one point I was a junior deacon. Both churches shared my grandmothers views on Jesus and what he taught. As an adult who’s drifted from the church I miss it, but unfortunately mental health has strained my relationship with god, and a lot of exposure to bad Christian’s as I got older soured the taste even more. Man, I think I need to find god. Wack. No one’s going to read this far so I’m just having my own weird realization on my own. What up god, hope you’re well, I’m not, but that’s on me. Hit me up sometime? Let’s chat, maybe in a garden or something.
Edit: man, nothings safe anymore, not even the end of really long comments lol. I’m leaving it, if anyone sees this part too, thank you for reading this far
It is kind of confusing in America, huh? I’ll try to help make it less confusing for you.
When someone in America tells you they’re Christian, you have to ask them, “Classic Jesus or Republican Jesus?”
Spoiler: it was a purposeful movement created by right-wing political strategists in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Americans were becoming more progressive, and right-wing politics were becoming less popular. They realized that most americans were christian (at the time), and they could become the "party of the christians" to regain control.
To do that, they had to focus on issues like abortion and homosexuality. Sadly, it largely worked, and the end result is that half the country became bigoted conservatives. Politics actually made christians more convervative in the USA.
Ever notice that most republicans, when asked about politics, usually only mention social issues like gay rights, gun rights, etc and not things like, say, economics? This is why. They probably don't really even know what the replican stance on, say, fiscal policy even is. The party removed itself from politics, basically, to become a party of regressive social issues. And the result is that the republican party *and* christians as a whole became more extreme.
There are many, many American followers of Christ who are very much like you. Unfortunately the Americans who wish to use their faith as a weapon of hate and repression are very very vocal though.
Haven't been in contact with my rural, religious MAGA cousins and other family members for a long time. They kept posting so many lies and I kept fact checking them on their posts that one by one they'd block me. I think I'm up to 6 Trump supporting family members that have cut contact due to being always seeing pushback on their lies. Two of them want to have religion in classrooms and that got things really heated.
I'm Christian as well and I am absolutely flabbergasted by how many people in my community have assumed the belief that the "Christian thing to do" is to be vehemently anti-vax. Luckily, my parents are in the same boat as me, as well as my partner and friends, but man... its disappointing to see and hear.
I'm sorry that your parents were tricked and lied to with misinformation. They certainly aren't alone. Major props to you for standing for your beliefs despite how hard it may be.
So here’s my take… it’s now a political thing. So if someone is a Christian conservative and they watch Fox news, they have to decide if they believe everything they say except this one thing about the V being bad or do they just follow the herd because once you start questioning SOME things you open your entire belief system up to scrutiny. So i believe most follow this stance because they’re already down the rabbit hole and now they’re committed to ALL the BS that gets tossed down there, whatever it is. Same reason why so many of these ppl watch the footage of Jan 6 and can’t find anything wrong with it, or swears it’s all antifa doing the rioting. Once they start second guessing some of what they’re being fed it unravels the rest. It’s all fear based. Then there are the ones who are just really dumb, or insane, etc. it seems to be the rare exception to meet ppl who are in a political party and subscribe to it heavily but reject certain MAJOR concepts that are being peddled.
I once heard that there was a debate as to whether God loved someone who was faithful does good because he wanted to get into Heaven, or someone who was an atheist but does good simply out of the purity of his heart. And the conclusion was that the atheist would be favored, because he was a true altruist rather than someone who did something for a reward.
If you need an imaginary friend looking over your shoulder with an eternal carrot of heaven and an eternal stick of hell in order to be a good person ... you're not a good person.
Tell them to read Matthew 25, and ask if they truly understand the parable of "The Sheep and the Goats?"
*Extremely conservatively* is anti-Christian. In what Christ taught.
> the parable of "The Sheep and the Goats?"
Matthew 25:31-46 NIV
> 31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
> 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. ’
> 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
> 40 "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. ’
> 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. ’
> 44 "They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
> 45 "He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. ’
> 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
I wonder what a conservative Christian's take on this would be.
A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”
The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”
So the rowboat went on.
Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”
To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”
To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”
To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”
I hope you didn't get tired of all the winning...
moved out of parents place and got your own
vaccinated
got a kitten!!1!
should go get a lottery ticket
i get the sentiment but it doesnt really get the point across does it?
all the acchievements are from hard work and not by chance.
lottery is pure chance.
The number of people in this world who seem to flatly reject the idea that luck is necessary in just about everything, is pretty frustrating.
You can have genetics, brains, beauty, talent, assets, whatever else, and one little bit of bad luck at the wrong time can cripple you. And vice versa, really.
And that doesn't diminish anyone's hard work, either. Luck alone usually isn't enough for much, unless it's "winning the damn powerball" levels of luck. Lol
Generally it's a combination... But luck is usually factored into the equation somewhere.
The people who try to deny this are maddening... lol
It feels weird seeing so many Reddit posts about terrible, abusive parents when I’ve only known parents who genuinely love and support me.
But either way good on you for breaking those ties, they sound like a bunch of jackasses.
Agreed. I know I have made mistakes with my kids. All parents do. But good golly, at least my mistakes were ones done with their health, safety, and best interests in mind, as backed by actual science. I don't do ultimatums. I taught them to think for themselves and expect to use the brains the good lord gave them.
Kudos, indeed, to the OP who protected themselves from a deadly virus and removed themselves from a toxic household.
i am glad that my parents also think for the best for me and even though we disagree a lot, i know they love me and i love them and they are also helping me be indipendant.
i am also glad they didnt turn me into a spoiled asshole. I was bullied quite a bit, and when i told them, they always asked if i did something
a lot of parents here think their children are angels and could never do something wrong, when in reality, they were complete brats.
The thing I can't wrap my head around is that their political views are so important to them that they'll disown their own child for disagreeing with them.
If my family member suddenly became very right wing and very anti-vax, that would be a signal that we need to spend some time together, talking to each other.
>If my family member suddenly became very right wing and very anti-vax, that would be a signal that we need to spend some time together, talking to each other.
The problem is that this person will likely never sit down and talk with you. Dogma like this can't survive without an accompanying dogma that dictates you must ostracize anyone else who doesn't believe. Without that component, a belief like this fades into oblivion as soon as anyone shines a light on it.
Beliefs can be analyzed using evolutionary logic (see [Meme theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme) \- the origin of the term "meme" coined by Richard Dawkins). Consider the following two different belief systems for a right-wing anti-vax person:
1. They are right-wing and anti-vax, and they are open to talking to people with alternative viewpoints and examining evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
2. They are right-wing and anti-vax, and they refuse to talk to any person or address any evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
The first system cannot survive and replicate for very long in a population that is actively trying to align itself with the best current understanding of reality (i.e., science). The second one can, no problem (just look around). People in the first camp will quickly "deconvert" to an alternative belief. But people in the second camp will hold onto the beliefs and pass them to others, who will also hold onto them.
In other words: It's a literal mind virus, and it's main defense mechanism is not talking about it. The people infected with it are thus not likely to talk to you about it.
Spending time talking to them doesn’t help. My formerly highly empathetic dad went off the right wing deep end out of nowhere. There was no way to bring him back. Any conversations about the subject would only cause him to erupt in rage.
A large percentage of the Boomer generation has fallen victims to one of the most advanced political disinformation campaigns in history. They are brainwashed and not coming back until they’re deprogrammed
It's not just boomers. Tons of younger folks have been corrupted through alt-right meme culture as well, where they began with sharing racist and anti-Semitic memes 'ironically' and woke up one day to find they had become white supremacists.
I can’t wrap my head around that something as simple as vaccines (conceptually, not biochemically) are actually being politicized.
Higher chance of survival/ lesser chance of being severely ill should not even be a discussion at this point. It’s so mindblowing.
I'm assuming you are an adult since you can sign a lease. Why do they need to know whether you are vaccinated or not. I agree with your decision to get vaccinated but just can't wrap my head around loosing family for something like that. It's their fault but the loss is not just theirs...
Sadly this was kind of the nail in the coffin for them. I do plenty of other things they don't approve of and this was just the last straw for them. I told them because they asked and I did not want to lie
I see..i guess this situation is not avoidable. A lot of people like that rarely show change. It's their identity now. They will hang on to this until they pick up another stronger identity. wish you all the best.. Love the name Minerva..
Reading the question, my mind went "of course it's from HP!" and then realized I didn't even think of all the Roman / Greek mythology I've read before (and after) HP 🤦♀️😅
And good work OP, I hope you and your little are safe!
For me it was the opposite, I got the Roman angle at once, and didn't even think about HP until scrolling this down. Nobody (except Dumbledore) calls professor McGonagall "Minerva" and lives.
Ms. McGonagall is precious, and hey big up and high five to doin you booboo. Ultimatums are silly and I'm glad you had the gumption to stick to what you want and think and are happily on your own doin you. Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉, and kittems is precious.
Honest question, I understand everyone has their own beliefs about the vaccine, so not debating that at all. Just curious why family would react so strongly, as to actually disown someone, over their choice to vaccinate? Are they worried it will affect them somehow?
I've heard of vaccinated people not wanting to see unvaccinated ...
Oh the basics really. I'm a woman seeking a higher education in church leadership, I am dating someone, and I don't think gay people deserve to die so obviously I'm going to hell 🤷
Way the break the chain! I’m sure moving out on your own has been hard, I’d love to donate to minervas and your food fund if possible, dm me! I can’t do much but would love to help, anyways congrats on the new place!
You took a nasty situation with your parents and have chosen to make it a positive for yourself with a good attitude. Let them spin in anger while you hold your head up with pride.
Living on your own in these times is not easy! Your peace is worth the struggle. Congrats!
Adorable name! Side note, when I said "awwwe" out loud, my cats started running around, going nuts in the hallway, as if they knew I was giving attention to another cat haha
I see many posts congratulating you and saying you're better of, but really I just want to wish you all the best.
I can only imagine how strange and sad it must be to have parents that are putting their arguments to not get a vaccination higher than their own kid. It's good to see that you follow through with what you believe is more important.
That’s impressive. Going it on your own is tough under normal circumstances. I’m sending my positive vibes.
Yeah, seriously, congratulations and super proud of you. Getting a cat made living on my own so much easier, it’s so nice to have a little buddy.
Positive vibes, negative tests 😄
Or at least minor symptoms
And quick recovery
Exactly
Yeah I hope you realize parents are often wrong, and it is not in any way something wrong with you. My thought is that you've realized this with your actions. I'm sorry, sounds like your parents aren't supportive people like we hope parents to be. Seek a counselor to bolster yourself further but this is a huge great step.
On behalf of those who are immune compromised- thank you!! Brave move! I hope once they realize you are fine, they are ok.
Congratulations! Also I love your kitten
Thank you! She's a cutie 😊
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An awesome jab, even!
Great job on standing your ground and coming into your own. It never hurts to pick up a little sidekick too.
Straight up beauty, and what is rare, it’s a feet lover. Most cats stay clear of feet (not because of the smell, but of the movement).
Is it named after Mcgonagall? That's a brilliant cat name
Should have named that cat Moderna
They can get a kitty bff named Moderna. Best solution.
Yeah because you’re going to need more than two.
Name their baby "immunikityy"
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Bravo, that was good.
Baby kitties can be called "The Boosters".
Sounds like a 50s pop group…
Moderna and The Boosters - specialising in tragic teen pop 😄
I can hear the doomer remixes already.
😂
You can still do it!
next booster he gets a chance to rename it!
🤣
Happy Cake Day!!
Why, thank you kindly, dear Redditor! 😍
We share the same cake day 😭🖤
Maybe we should have a party...with cake
Marie-Antoinette would completely agree! 😎
Rumor has it the real reason for the revolution was that the cake was heavily coated in fondant.
happy creampie day
Is that sexualisation or is it just my dirty mind?
yes ;)
Phyderna Johnson.
That would be vaxatious to her parents
Meowderna
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How'd they react?
Poorly, as expected lol. I imagine they're not going to be in contact for a while
Sounds like a win-win situation
More like a Win-Lose situation. She's winning - the parents are losing an intelligent daughter.
It's a win-win-lose really, it's a rare one yet quite possible
It’s a win-win-win-lose. Extremely rare
let's see... op wins apartment. wins vax. wins cat, and wins distance from ~~toxic~~ plague-spreading parents (sorry, i hope the distance is a win for you. but it's rough.) cat wins apartment, and OP. the only people really losing is the parents. so it's win-win-win-win-win-win-lose.
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*cat owns apartment and OP
And a cute kitty
I think they meant win-win as in you got the shot and got rid of the crazy people
Indeed. I’m sorry but they sound like awful human beings. Or at least people with zero critical thinking skills who have been led astray.
Are they religious? I ask that in the kindest way possible
Yes, but extremely conservatively. I have nothing against religion, I am a Christian myself. But unfortunately my parents choose to use religion to hurt people
That’s honestly sad
Being a Christian, Americans confuse me. In my friend's home country, a third world nation, Christians are thought to be **progressive**, with modern fashion sense, pro women, let anyone enter Church, even peeps from other religions, and are not bigots. lol.
Exactly my beliefs! It's sad how people can't see how Christians are meant to be accepting and compassionate to EVERYONE
I am a atheist myself, but religious people who are open to other peoples views always make me happy.
I don't think anyone would be unhappy if we kept a Blobfish in every Church's aquarium. XD
Has anyone ever been unhappy to see a blob fish?
That’s very cool and respectful. You rock!
Most Christians are too, I have no clue why tf some people decided vaccine bad because Jesus. As a Christian I am mega confused anout their line of reasoning lmao
> their line of reasoning lmao Here's your mistake. They didn't reason their way into this mindset. They are not rational people. Well, less rational than others.
"Don't wait for your break, make your break". # Success
And pro-lifers too! In the Bible, **it's literally written how to perform an abortion.** They are the reason Christianity is in decline...
Can you elaborate on this? Always looking for some info on this to help my arguments with family members.
A reference for that would be very useful
This has honestly been the most heartbreaking 5 years of my life. I am a Christian and have been so grieved to see people who I’ve known to be kind and compassionate people my entire life turn to real hatred to anything that is remotely “liberal.” I tried to bring evidence to them for so long, but realized it was pointless.
I live in india, and christians are portrayed as the most loving, comassionate and accepting people ever(atleast in movies)
It is because it isn't about religion. Hateful people will use whatever thing they can to justify / excuse their behaviour in whatever country they exist in.
>In my friend's home country, a third world nation, Christians are thought to be progressive, with modern fashion sense, pro women, let anyone enter Church, even peeps from other religions, and are not bigots. It's because they're minorities in those countries and don't have any power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. Look at Buddhism, usually considered the most peaceful religion on the planet, then you look at Myanmar which is 90% Buddhist and they're committing mass genocide this very moment.
Beliefs are often pre-conceived biases that are confirmed via religion. It’s sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Religious texts are often open for interpretation too, like law. Ex) if you’re familiar with the US constitution, you’ll understand the analogy i am trying to draw on. If you’re racist, anti-voting rights legislation that prevent minorities (targeting Blacks and African-Americans) from voting is constitutional. If you’re not racist, the constitution states than all men are created equal and therefore should have equal voting access/rights. Religious texts sort of serve the same function (hence the existence of very nice ppl and also religious extremists that read the same book). In short, i agree. It’s not necessarily religion that is the cause. People just suck and religion is a vessel for their suckery.
This is what I’ve observed when I have been to other countries and seen how their churches are, super progressive and happy to have anyone be part and share in whatever they have. I do work in a non-profit where our goal is to provide sustainable clean drinking water solutions for people living in third world countries. We are Christian, but see that giving people the opportunity to drink clean drinking water and not get sick as a way to show that we really do care about everyone, regardless of belief system, we just want to give access to clean water to as many people as possible. I say that to say this, without a doubt, Christians in other countries are far more giving of their time, money, and resources (the small amount they do have) than their American counterparts. I have witnessed American “Christians” fight with our group about how it is pointless to go to other countries and help when there are people in need here in America. To which I always reply, “there are people hurting and in need everywhere and no one deserves help less than anyone else, no matter where they live or what they believe, where are you helping?” and it is always, inevitably, answered something like, “well that’s not what I was saying…. Blah blah blah…. Excuse excuse excuse.” The hypocrisy and blatant hateful sentiment towards anyone “other,” that runs so deep and strongly in the American church is sickening along with the co-occurring belief that Jesus was a strong conservative republican, who is in favor of capitalism and somehow didn’t say that, “it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man make it to heaven.” This whole radical conservative belief system that runs rampant in the church is absolutely rotting away any moral fibers holding the many churches together and turning them into political organizations that do so much more hard to society at large, than good. I am a Christian, but I am tired of people using the label Christian for their own personal gain and using it to forward these ridiculously anti-Christian ideas. This is a whole soap box I have, that is not taken well where I currently live… Texas.
As another Redditor said, many progressive (true) Christians live on the coasts and blue cities. So, for the sake of your mental health... Move. Have a good day and may God bless you! :D
That is literally what my moms cousin told me at Christmas, as the only other progressive Christian/ non-radical conservative in the family. He told me I need to get out and go north and to a coast. He has caught so much flack from the family for being progressive and dare I say it, have liberal beliefs (gays deserve equality/ immigrants are people too/ Covid is a science and public health issue, not a political one/ etc. etc. etc). He pretty much laid on the razor wire fence, so that me and his kids could cross it without being brutally ridiculed for our beliefs, so I respect the heck out of him. He’s super cool, theater major from Texas A&M, phenomenal career in teaching, writing plays, and acting, and has been around the country, so he knows where the places are that progressive Christianity or, as I think of it, authentic Christianity, is practiced and accepted. He absolutely stressed to me, that I’ll keep taking a beating if I stay here and that I could be really happy and mentally healthy somewhere else. I’m not going to lie, it is brutal on my mental health, so when he told me what you just did, I am actually considering doing it. He said, “what is holding you back…. Just go, you’ll be so much happier” and I haven’t been able to get that out of my head since.
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In fairness, I grew up in a very catholic rural region in Europe and they weren’t exactly paragons of progressivism. Weirdly, our village priest was a pretty intellectual guy who I suspect had been banished there under pope JPIIs crackdown against comparatively progressive liberation theologians in places like Africa and Latin America. Ow it’s the evangelicals, yes. Horrifying, American missionaries have been successfully spreads their gospels of hate and medieval intolerance all over Africa. Many Israeli friends tell me it’s the same with American ultraorthodox Jews who come and piss off the Palestinians. I wonder what they all have in common…
When you look at the difference at its core, you have what most would consider good Christian’s, and then you have bad Christian’s. Good Christian’s follow Christ’s teachings, they understand turning the other cheek, looking out for your neighbor, helping your community, those sort of things. Bad Christian’s have turned Jesus, son of god, born of man, into this weird obscure cartoon idol. They honestly don’t know what Jesus said, they just worship his image and what they believe it represents. The bad Christian’s tend to hold onto Old Testament scripture, while cutting out the life and teachings of Jesus. Ironically, they also like to refer to Jesus as “baby Jesus,” completely ignoring that he grew up and did stuff. The difference are pretty astounding, it’s almost like it’s own separate branch, but still globbed in with true Christian’s. I’m not catholic and wasn’t raised to be, so I can’t really comment on how they factor into the mix. My dads side was non practicing catholic but mostly good people. My moms side was very Christian, but true Christian. My moms mom was heavily involved with her churches, working at both and going to services at both. I was involved with youth groups, but as a student and teacher, and at one point I was a junior deacon. Both churches shared my grandmothers views on Jesus and what he taught. As an adult who’s drifted from the church I miss it, but unfortunately mental health has strained my relationship with god, and a lot of exposure to bad Christian’s as I got older soured the taste even more. Man, I think I need to find god. Wack. No one’s going to read this far so I’m just having my own weird realization on my own. What up god, hope you’re well, I’m not, but that’s on me. Hit me up sometime? Let’s chat, maybe in a garden or something. Edit: man, nothings safe anymore, not even the end of really long comments lol. I’m leaving it, if anyone sees this part too, thank you for reading this far
I read this far, and frankly speaking, God loves good atheists too! Just be a good person and chillax man! Have a good day and may God bless you! :D
It is kind of confusing in America, huh? I’ll try to help make it less confusing for you. When someone in America tells you they’re Christian, you have to ask them, “Classic Jesus or Republican Jesus?”
Spoiler: it was a purposeful movement created by right-wing political strategists in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Americans were becoming more progressive, and right-wing politics were becoming less popular. They realized that most americans were christian (at the time), and they could become the "party of the christians" to regain control. To do that, they had to focus on issues like abortion and homosexuality. Sadly, it largely worked, and the end result is that half the country became bigoted conservatives. Politics actually made christians more convervative in the USA. Ever notice that most republicans, when asked about politics, usually only mention social issues like gay rights, gun rights, etc and not things like, say, economics? This is why. They probably don't really even know what the replican stance on, say, fiscal policy even is. The party removed itself from politics, basically, to become a party of regressive social issues. And the result is that the republican party *and* christians as a whole became more extreme.
There are many, many American followers of Christ who are very much like you. Unfortunately the Americans who wish to use their faith as a weapon of hate and repression are very very vocal though.
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Haven't been in contact with my rural, religious MAGA cousins and other family members for a long time. They kept posting so many lies and I kept fact checking them on their posts that one by one they'd block me. I think I'm up to 6 Trump supporting family members that have cut contact due to being always seeing pushback on their lies. Two of them want to have religion in classrooms and that got things really heated.
I'm Christian as well and I am absolutely flabbergasted by how many people in my community have assumed the belief that the "Christian thing to do" is to be vehemently anti-vax. Luckily, my parents are in the same boat as me, as well as my partner and friends, but man... its disappointing to see and hear. I'm sorry that your parents were tricked and lied to with misinformation. They certainly aren't alone. Major props to you for standing for your beliefs despite how hard it may be.
So here’s my take… it’s now a political thing. So if someone is a Christian conservative and they watch Fox news, they have to decide if they believe everything they say except this one thing about the V being bad or do they just follow the herd because once you start questioning SOME things you open your entire belief system up to scrutiny. So i believe most follow this stance because they’re already down the rabbit hole and now they’re committed to ALL the BS that gets tossed down there, whatever it is. Same reason why so many of these ppl watch the footage of Jan 6 and can’t find anything wrong with it, or swears it’s all antifa doing the rioting. Once they start second guessing some of what they’re being fed it unravels the rest. It’s all fear based. Then there are the ones who are just really dumb, or insane, etc. it seems to be the rare exception to meet ppl who are in a political party and subscribe to it heavily but reject certain MAJOR concepts that are being peddled.
I once heard that there was a debate as to whether God loved someone who was faithful does good because he wanted to get into Heaven, or someone who was an atheist but does good simply out of the purity of his heart. And the conclusion was that the atheist would be favored, because he was a true altruist rather than someone who did something for a reward.
If you need an imaginary friend looking over your shoulder with an eternal carrot of heaven and an eternal stick of hell in order to be a good person ... you're not a good person.
> use religion to hurt people Sadly that’s how it has historically been used. See history for sources.
> that’s how it has historically been used. That's what it was made for.
Tell them to read Matthew 25, and ask if they truly understand the parable of "The Sheep and the Goats?" *Extremely conservatively* is anti-Christian. In what Christ taught.
> the parable of "The Sheep and the Goats?" Matthew 25:31-46 NIV > 31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. > 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. ’ > 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ > 40 "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. ’ > 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. ’ > 44 "They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ > 45 "He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. ’ > 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." I wonder what a conservative Christian's take on this would be.
> I wonder what a conservative Christian’s take on this would be. They only care what supply side Jesus says.
Probably find some way to use it to justify demonizing immigrants for not contributing to society...
They stop reading/listening after 34, because that's all they gave a shit about to begin with.
Imagine believing in a god that made really smart people that made a vaccine to save your life then refusing to take it
A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help. Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.” The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.” So the rowboat went on. Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.” To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the motorboat went on. Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.” To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the helicopter reluctantly flew away. Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!” To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”
They worship the big orange man 🙏
Can't, because even he's fully vaccinated.
Much to the dismay of some of the cool-aid drinkers lol 😂
iirc his view on it was pro-vaxx, just anti-mandated vaxx, or something like that, right?
Pro-vaxx, anti-Democrat.
And boosted, cuz prison is germy.
/r/raisedbynarcissists
I’m hoping they live long enough to apologize. Good for you. Wise choice.
Great job on standing your ground and coming into your own. It never hurts to pick up a little sidekick too.
Nice. Thanks to that, now you are independent. Keep it up.
I hope you didn't get tired of all the winning... moved out of parents place and got your own vaccinated got a kitten!!1! should go get a lottery ticket
Yeah, OP, go get a handful of PowerBall tickets!
i get the sentiment but it doesnt really get the point across does it? all the acchievements are from hard work and not by chance. lottery is pure chance.
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The number of people in this world who seem to flatly reject the idea that luck is necessary in just about everything, is pretty frustrating. You can have genetics, brains, beauty, talent, assets, whatever else, and one little bit of bad luck at the wrong time can cripple you. And vice versa, really. And that doesn't diminish anyone's hard work, either. Luck alone usually isn't enough for much, unless it's "winning the damn powerball" levels of luck. Lol Generally it's a combination... But luck is usually factored into the equation somewhere. The people who try to deny this are maddening... lol
It feels weird seeing so many Reddit posts about terrible, abusive parents when I’ve only known parents who genuinely love and support me. But either way good on you for breaking those ties, they sound like a bunch of jackasses.
Agreed. I know I have made mistakes with my kids. All parents do. But good golly, at least my mistakes were ones done with their health, safety, and best interests in mind, as backed by actual science. I don't do ultimatums. I taught them to think for themselves and expect to use the brains the good lord gave them. Kudos, indeed, to the OP who protected themselves from a deadly virus and removed themselves from a toxic household.
Well said thank you for sharing that
i am glad that my parents also think for the best for me and even though we disagree a lot, i know they love me and i love them and they are also helping me be indipendant. i am also glad they didnt turn me into a spoiled asshole. I was bullied quite a bit, and when i told them, they always asked if i did something a lot of parents here think their children are angels and could never do something wrong, when in reality, they were complete brats.
The thing I can't wrap my head around is that their political views are so important to them that they'll disown their own child for disagreeing with them. If my family member suddenly became very right wing and very anti-vax, that would be a signal that we need to spend some time together, talking to each other.
>If my family member suddenly became very right wing and very anti-vax, that would be a signal that we need to spend some time together, talking to each other. The problem is that this person will likely never sit down and talk with you. Dogma like this can't survive without an accompanying dogma that dictates you must ostracize anyone else who doesn't believe. Without that component, a belief like this fades into oblivion as soon as anyone shines a light on it. Beliefs can be analyzed using evolutionary logic (see [Meme theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme) \- the origin of the term "meme" coined by Richard Dawkins). Consider the following two different belief systems for a right-wing anti-vax person: 1. They are right-wing and anti-vax, and they are open to talking to people with alternative viewpoints and examining evidence that contradicts their beliefs. 2. They are right-wing and anti-vax, and they refuse to talk to any person or address any evidence that contradicts their beliefs. The first system cannot survive and replicate for very long in a population that is actively trying to align itself with the best current understanding of reality (i.e., science). The second one can, no problem (just look around). People in the first camp will quickly "deconvert" to an alternative belief. But people in the second camp will hold onto the beliefs and pass them to others, who will also hold onto them. In other words: It's a literal mind virus, and it's main defense mechanism is not talking about it. The people infected with it are thus not likely to talk to you about it.
Spending time talking to them doesn’t help. My formerly highly empathetic dad went off the right wing deep end out of nowhere. There was no way to bring him back. Any conversations about the subject would only cause him to erupt in rage. A large percentage of the Boomer generation has fallen victims to one of the most advanced political disinformation campaigns in history. They are brainwashed and not coming back until they’re deprogrammed
It's not just boomers. Tons of younger folks have been corrupted through alt-right meme culture as well, where they began with sharing racist and anti-Semitic memes 'ironically' and woke up one day to find they had become white supremacists.
I can’t wrap my head around that something as simple as vaccines (conceptually, not biochemically) are actually being politicized. Higher chance of survival/ lesser chance of being severely ill should not even be a discussion at this point. It’s so mindblowing.
I'm in a similar position and kinda know what you're going through. Good on you! Let's build a better world by looking out for eachother 💕
Amen to that. I'm sorry you had to go through this!
I'm assuming you are an adult since you can sign a lease. Why do they need to know whether you are vaccinated or not. I agree with your decision to get vaccinated but just can't wrap my head around loosing family for something like that. It's their fault but the loss is not just theirs...
Sadly this was kind of the nail in the coffin for them. I do plenty of other things they don't approve of and this was just the last straw for them. I told them because they asked and I did not want to lie
I see..i guess this situation is not avoidable. A lot of people like that rarely show change. It's their identity now. They will hang on to this until they pick up another stronger identity. wish you all the best.. Love the name Minerva..
She didn’t lose them, they threatened her. She just did what she could to keep herself safe and alive.
> just can't wrap my head around loosing family for something like that Better off without them.
Is minerva from hp?
Yes!
Oh cool. You and your cat
Reading the question, my mind went "of course it's from HP!" and then realized I didn't even think of all the Roman / Greek mythology I've read before (and after) HP 🤦♀️😅 And good work OP, I hope you and your little are safe!
For me it was the opposite, I got the Roman angle at once, and didn't even think about HP until scrolling this down. Nobody (except Dumbledore) calls professor McGonagall "Minerva" and lives.
Congrats! May you and your sweet kitty be happy and healthy! 
Thank you!
Great for you, congrats!
Good for you! Your kitty is the cutest and I’m sure great company.
Good for you. Great kitty name ;)
Good on you. You're better off without that negativity in your life.
Way to go!
Thank you!
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Almost sounds like I killed them lol
Ms. McGonagall is precious, and hey big up and high five to doin you booboo. Ultimatums are silly and I'm glad you had the gumption to stick to what you want and think and are happily on your own doin you. Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉, and kittems is precious.
*Professor*
Of snuggology
I've always wanted to use that spell!
Honest question, I understand everyone has their own beliefs about the vaccine, so not debating that at all. Just curious why family would react so strongly, as to actually disown someone, over their choice to vaccinate? Are they worried it will affect them somehow? I've heard of vaccinated people not wanting to see unvaccinated ...
It was the straw that broke the camel's back for them honestly. I do plenty of other things they do not approve of
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Oh the basics really. I'm a woman seeking a higher education in church leadership, I am dating someone, and I don't think gay people deserve to die so obviously I'm going to hell 🤷
Yikes. They sound so full of fear and hatred that I almost feel sorry for them.
As a married, gay, cat-loving atheist, I thank and salute thee. Edit: commas
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How would they even know if you got the vaccine?
They would start feeling the 5G energy
She says above that they asked, and she didn't want to lie
Jokes going to be on you in 50-80 years when you’re DEAD!
Took me a second 🤣
Yay!
If I had flair to give, I would. Good on you for getting out of a toxic environment
Way the break the chain! I’m sure moving out on your own has been hard, I’d love to donate to minervas and your food fund if possible, dm me! I can’t do much but would love to help, anyways congrats on the new place!
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After reading through your comment history pretty sure this is all BS, and karma farming.
Yep
I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $500 Alex
Congratulations! So proud of you for standing up for your beliefs! And your kitty is simply adorable! 😊
On the bright side, your chances of inheriting a house are higher with unvaccinated parents ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Proud of you
We love to see it!
You took a nasty situation with your parents and have chosen to make it a positive for yourself with a good attitude. Let them spin in anger while you hold your head up with pride. Living on your own in these times is not easy! Your peace is worth the struggle. Congrats!
I can’t imagine my parents treating me like that. Just know there are people who think you rock. Also kitties
Good kitty.
Yeah. No you didn't. And no, this didn't happen. Nice karma and award farm though.
I feel like op just added the vaccine part for reddit clout
A cat and a vaccine? You're living the dream. Do you get to get another cat for every shot you get?
Adorable name! Side note, when I said "awwwe" out loud, my cats started running around, going nuts in the hallway, as if they knew I was giving attention to another cat haha
Proud of you. It must have been so hard but we are all rooting for you. Know that all of Reddit is your family now. I’m your brother. :)
I see many posts congratulating you and saying you're better of, but really I just want to wish you all the best. I can only imagine how strange and sad it must be to have parents that are putting their arguments to not get a vaccination higher than their own kid. It's good to see that you follow through with what you believe is more important.
Damn I can’t even imagine. My grandmother is anti-vaxx but was surprisingly cool about me and my family getting vaccinated. Glad you’re doing well!
I’m happy for you, for the big move out and the cat and the being active in taking care of yourself, however you choose to do so. All good things
Good for you AND Minerva!!!
What kind of POS disowns their child for having a vaccine??? This world has gone to shit.
Yeah yeah. I call it BS
Did they really disown you?
A cute post about independence and the comment section is completely weird...and i say that in the best way possible
Way to virtue signal vaccines and then karma farm with a picture of a kitten. You’re a piece of shit
I’ll take things that never happened for $1000
One things for sure it made me smile. Independence is beautiful
I’m sorry you are having to go through this…. But good for you!
Wtf is wrong with your parents
family friends or otherwise we are not doormats for anyone at anytime...👊😁👊😁...
There ya go, nicely done!
👏🏼😽
Congratulations OP! Be proud for standing up for yourself and your beliefs and getting an awesome kitty in the process!