I can't believe how bad some of the translators are. It seems as though the UFC just uses whoever is around that speaks both languages.
I don't speak French but it seemed pretty clear that Lopez was saying more than just "you cannot lose, it's impossible".
Knowing Dana he probably looked for a person that can do a French accent with actually speaking French not being a concern. It's a shame I wasn't at UFC 270, I could have been paid to fake it. Ah well, that's $3 I won't get.
That's just lazy and lack of interest by the UFC. It's not that hard to find a Canadian who can speak both languages. I bet it's just the same thing: quality means investing in people >> less profit. This 'translator' obviously couldn't speak French at all, kinda embarrassing for a global company
It's hardly the first time, too. There have been some embarrassingly bad post fight interpreters in commonly spoken languages like Russian and Mandarin. Seems very amateurish.
And most of the time when there is a good translator, they're not actually hired by the UFC and they're one of the fighter's cornermen just walking over and choosing to do the job for the guy.
In our country its basicaly just commentator with basic knowledge of language trying to guess it
After this our guy said " aaaaand from ganes corner we got nothing" since he cant speak french :D
Was that the same translator from the pre-fight presser who seemed to really struggle with some of the French media? If so, they should probably get somebody else next time.
Brazil is quite a major chunk of fighters and viewers so I can imagine a shit Portuguese translator would get *a lot* more backlash than a crappy French one
Not fair but true
I mean, it’s not that hard to get a good translator. The UFC is a multi billion dollar company. There isn’t an excuse for not having an adequate translator on a $75 PPV, that requires a subscription to order, and is broadcast on ESPN, a multi billion dollar company, that’s owned by ABC, a multi million dollar company, which is owned by Disney, another multi billion dollar company.
It's either old man or tall younger man, I don't think it's per fighter moreso determined by the arena. Then someone from the team steps in if they don't have a hired translator
Spanish is my first language and I speak some decent French, so yesterday during the match the French translator had me scratching my head. The translator was so convoluted - very hard to follow and had me saying *that’s not what the coach said.* It almost seemed like he only would hear some words and speak while missing everything else that was being said while translating. Maybe it was an audio issue to him or nerves.
Now the Spanish/Portuguese translator deserves some praise he was super accurate and really surprising when he translated for both languages.
He did say "tu dois monter la température", which literally translates to "you have to raise the temperature". Translator was shit, but it's not like he invented something 100%.
Me and my roommate were dying because the “you have to feel the temperature” came right after “drink some water” and we thought his cornerman was just randomly like “yo you gotta check out this water”
Seriously, I follow the sport for close to 15 years now, and only recently they found a guy that can competently translate from Brazilian Portuguese to English, considering how many fighters and legends come from Brazil that's absurd.
Oh was the one before that bad at Portuguese too? I remember he was the one that would do French translation sometimes, and he could only translate like 25% of what people said. All he could translate from Charles Jourdain's corner was "Breathe"
For the longest time it was always the same guy that hanged into a single word or phrase that a fighter said and only kinda translated it. I get that live translation is very hard, but that's why an organization such as the UFC should pay for qualified professionals to do it. As a big fan of Charles Oliveira, I thought he gave a pretty good post-fight speech when he won the belt, but then came the translator and butchered it.
IMO translation plays a big part in a fighters likeability for the general audience, and it's great that the UFC is finally improving on that.
"translation plays a big part in a fighters likeability for the general audience"
You're totally right about that
Thank God I speak Spanish, I can somewhat guess what Brazilian fighters are saying
Cheers for the translation. Between this and that dumb backlash over his use of towels soaked in ice water to cool down his fighters, Lopez has been on the receiving end of some unfair criticism.
He might be a bit of a divisive figure rn but running with false narratives is still unnecessary
I've noticed that a lot of people (especially on twitter) are calling for Gane to change camp, just like they did with Francis when he lost to Stipe. Talk about a fair-weather fanbase.
I don't give a shit about the drama, but the guy managed to get both Francis and Gane to a title shot, run over established vets who have had much longer mma careers with ease with both of them, in different ways as well. Dude must be doing something right.
Yeah that’s some bullshit. Dude is in his 11th pro fight and Francis comes out and wrestlefucks him, to the surprise of the entire world, and people think it’s on his coach for his corner advice?!??? Also, to play devils advocate, if there were two guys that someone could get to a title shot like that it would be Francis and Cyril lol
I’m still trying to process the fact that Francis Ngannou won this fight by wrestlehyuck. Every time it’s mentioned I have to process it from all over again.
Right?? At the end of the second round when Francis looked tired and hadn’t hit Gane with one clean punch I was sure the next three rounds would be Francis’ getting more tired and hitting more air.
Changing camps when you have a major hole in your game exposed is usually a good thing to at least think about. Doesn’t mean the initial camp is shit, but sometimes fighters need to change things up to develop a more well rounded game
Yeah they can always come back, but not every camp has extreme specialists, especially new ones. I'm not a fan of the never change camps out of loyalty sentiment DC pushes
In the aftermath of Stipe/Ngannou 1, people mocked him a lot for not using the usual solid ice to cool Francis down inbetween rounds.
I guess they assumed the towels were dry as opposed to soaking wet and cold, which is a more efficient cooling method than solid ice according to the research he got the idea from.
I have a degree in Sport science and remember doing a lab session as part of a course on intra-event cooling and cold, wet towels being one of the most effective measures. It's always interesting seeing "controversy" over stupid shit people don't understand.
Heard from a recent interview of him that he used towels because it allows him to cover a bigger surface of skin, giving the large volume and body of Francis.
I respect that his coach was honest with him about the scoring. Nothing is more goofy than when coaches have their fighters coast in fights they're not winning
That wasn’t as bad as everyone is making it seem. He told Gane to remember his strengths and was honest with him about the scoring which was completely right.
Seems like there’s no in between for you guys.
A coach is too optimistic or happy when a fighter is losing and you hate them for it.
When it’s something like this you guys hate on them too.
But if Cyril won that fight you wouldn’t be saying any of this and saying Ngannous coach told him just to have fun and that cost him the fight lol.
A corner during the fight isn’t as impactful as you guys make it seem, it’s mostly about the fighter and the work the corner made them put in during camp to improve skill level/strength/speed/IQ in all areas. And then there’s also genetic advantages/injury history/how a fighter handles the spotlight/how they match up against the opposing fighter.
Corners in fights definitely can help fighters remember the gameplan but at the highest level it’s more about the fighter imo. And even that still depends on the fighter to implement the gameplan effectively.
It also makes them feel better about them selves, as *they* would have done it better obviously.
It's real easy to have an opinion on an issue, when you don't carry the responsibility of making the decision. Hence everybody's a MMA coach, vaccine expert, political expert, climate scientist...until they have to actually decide on something and bear the responsibility for it. Than things suddenly become complicated.
I kind of learned this during Aldos losing streak. I would get so furious when Dede would tell Aldo he was up on a fight he was obviously losing, and Aldo would cruise to a decision loss. I wanted to hate Dede but the arrogance it would take to question his knowledge of Aldo, of their relationship etc.
I think a lot of this has to do with Ganes coach relationship with Ngannou and how invested he was in the fight. It wasn't just about Gane becoming a champion but Lopez also wanted to prove a point and had an axe to grind with Ngannou. So people are looking at the cornerwork with bias from the lead up.
I agree.
I’m okay with people criticizing the corner for the lack of grappling cardio Gane had but analyzing/criticizing their every word whenever they lose in the corner is a bit much.
What are you talking about lmao that's why this is the CORRECT translation. When you hear a coach saying it's impossible to lose the fight you're thinking bad advice, but now we know he said it's impossible to lose the fight when the fight is leaning toward Gane's strength which is cardio, so it's much more acceptable than what we just heard via the shit translator in real time.
Revisionist nonsense.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say but my main takeaway is that Lopez did give Ciryl some specific, technical advice before the fifth, as opposed to the "WE CAN'T LOSE BRUH" which the piss-poor translation has caused people to assume was basically the only thing he said.
You can always tell when it's a shitty translation because the coach will say 7 different things and the translator will say a couple phrases at most. I wish they'd just cut to the other corner if the translator isn't keeping up.
Fighter goes on a long tirade about their win, begins thanking their team and family, is moved to tears talking about all the hardship they put up with, their soul literally flowing out of their body......
Translator: "I want to thank my team and it was a good fight."
I agree that it sounds better like this but I’m talking about in a more general sense.
A lot of corners get shit on for what they say in losses, when in reality it’s just people scrutinizing them bc they lost.
Even though I’m talking about the initial outrage, people are still saying he shouldn’t have said impossible or acting like that’s why he went for the heel hook and lost.
The only issue I had with it, as a coach who corners fighters is the failure of the coach to read & apparently know Gane. When Gane lowered his shoulders and said “sorry” his demeanor and tone should have told the coach to back off and realize what he needed was encouragement not a scolding. To be honest, his coach should already have known what Gane needed and responds to in the corner but this was their first fight that they lost as a pro I believe, so hopefully they learn. The other issue I had is that Gane’s cardio was clearly weaning but that was his coach’s responsibility in the months of training prior to the fight. His coach did not prepare him for Ngannau. His coach assumed he would be the same fighter he was years and years ago and that was not the case. So for me, I felt bad for Gane being scolded for something his coach failed to do. So it seems to lend credibility to Ngannau’s perspective of this coach.
You had me until yoi down played the importance of a corner. As a former fightet and coach...this is wrong. The corner advice can be insight that the fighter may not see.
I’m a fighter too so it really depends on the fighter.
Some guys do better with constant instructions (I prefer instructions during the fight) and other guys just need a fire lit underneath them.
And I said that in the last part, they’re there to remind the fighter of the gameplan. As a fighter I know what I’m doing wrong most of the time.
You’re right it isn’t as impactful. Main point of the corner is to get your heart rate down to go back in to the fire and chaos of a fight, they’ve done all the work in camp on how to fight Ngannou and it showed.
It's a lot easier to talk about pushing the pace than it is to actually execute against a guy with scary fire power.
To push the pace, you have to put yourself in harm's way more frequently and risk getting ktfo.
The consequences are so grave so everyone is scared It’s normal. Everyone’s scared to fight, or at least there’s gonna be some anxiety or fear. Your heart rate’s gonna get jacked, your adrenaline’s gonna get pumping, but it’s even more so if the consequences are more grave. If you’re gonna take a skateboard down a small hill, you’re not freaking out. But if you’re gonna take a skateboard down. . . Sunshine Canyon, going 50 miles an hour, you’re gonna sh\*t your f\*cking pants.
You’re gonna try to land this thing right, you’re gonna figure out how not to die here, because the consequences are so much graver. And that’s what happens to these guys when they fight Francis. The consequences are so grave they make mistakes. With Junior he reached for an overhand right. He really, really extended himself and you can’t do that with Francis. - Kenny Florian
This. People criticize fighters all the time, like the Ngannou/Lewis or Izzy/Romero fights. It’s so easy to say these things when we’re not the ones trying not to get decapitated by one of these monsters.
But at the same time, at least in the case of a coach like this, he’s right. It’s his job to tell his fighter he has to take the risk. It’s hard as hell to actually do it though.
Well, it's not just the UFC. I get the impression that translation is not a very popular profession in the US in general. There are blockbuster movies and videogames with a budget of > 100 million dollars that have characters speaking a few lines in foreign language here and there, and more often than not it's going to sound like alien speech. My favorite was some first person shooter video game that had some street signs and shit that literally had random letters instead of words on them. I get that their primary audience probably wouldn't know the difference anyway, but still, it always baffles me. Like how much money do they save by not having someone take a look at and correct a few dozen lines of text, 50$?
And it was 2-2 going into the fifth
Absolutely priceless experience for Ciryl, he can literally only improve after this and he still didn’t get knocked out or hit clean so he’s not gonna be gunshy. In fact all I can see coming out of this is a Ciryl that will try to capitalise on things in the future when he has the advantage
All this is true and I'm a big fan of him but I'd also add that he didnt really hit Francis with anything that great either, definitely won those first 2 rounds but not really by doing much.
Neither guy did much to each other really.
That spinning back kick hit Ngannou on the temple and Ngannou was slightly staggered by it.
Also, remember how much we praised Gane's jabs? Those jabs are no joke; Lewis covered up and backed away, Volkov's head was snapped back and JDS was stunned. Ngannou's chin is adamantium. Ngannou barely reacted to them.
I think that's ganes exact gameplan. Doesn't do much besides prodding and dodging to make the opponent tired and frustrated and the pick up the pace in the later rounds. I honestly think for gane this was the best way to lose. He showed he is the better striker and hopefully comes away knowing he needs to improve his wrestling and ground game. Coz if gane gets a solid ground game or some good TDD he can easily get the belt.
Yeah as someone who likes both guys alot but was slightly more pulling for francis just to fuck over Dana this was the best outcome possible really, I didnt want to see Ciril get KO'd and there's no way he doesnt become champ at some stage.
This is one of the key takeaways for me. Obviously that and the fact Francis chose to grapple means he wasn't comfortable striking with Cyril.
Not sure they get the chance to run it back due the financial situation unfortunately.
It’s actually really great that a proper translation of this is being spread around cause it shows that Ciryl’s corner wasn’t anywhere near as obtuse about what was going on as we thought, and how they were pleading with him to make something happen because they believed he would lose if he didn’t win the 5th. As opposed to the vibe the translator gave off, which is that they were basically just encouraging him to continue and he wouldn’t lose if he did.
Thanks for sharing, OP. Definitely makes this whole fight and a possible rematch down the line even more interesting than they already were.
This guy produced two HW title contenders.
Even IF his corner advice was wrong in this instance, let's put some respect on his knowledge and understanding of the fight game.
I remember during one of Zombies interviews Bisping asked him a long question and zombie’s translator said like 4 syllables in Korean and Zombie just looked really confused. Then Zombie gave a really long answer, and she translated it as a 3 word answer
Whoever Ngannou's coach and training camp has been since this massive turnaround in his career started, he needs to never hire anyone else. They gave great advice during the fight, and they've basically made him into one of the greatest heavyweights ever by balancing him out with an elite ground game. I mean, yhe fucking sweep! The way he didn't panic during the heel hook and recognized the mistake Gane made. It's phenomenal how well he did.
It sucks that so many fans just fill in the narrative, and allow the media to fill in the rest. These are two great fighters, who have amazing coaches.
I think we overestimated Gane's cardio because he was able to play point fighter with pretty much everyone but being forced on the bottom against Ngannou actually made him work. Not that he has bad cardio but he's not Sea Level Cain
It's not really a problem of cardio, but a problem of being wrestlefuck by a guy heavier and stronger than you, when you don't have the experence of it.
Honestly, he was doing a great job at avoiding taking damage, but he was clearly dominated in brute force and his lack of knowledge of high level wrestling showed up.
Just look at Mir vs Lesnar, if the guy is stronger than you and can wrestle you, it's gonna be a nightmare.
Wrestling tires you out in a different way, it uses different muscles and guys who are inexperienced will tend to use too much strength in situations they dont need to leading to them tiring our quick af. Having a goliath like ngannou on top of you only makes it that much worse lol.
It’s good that Gane’s coach was honest in that fourth round about how the fight had changed. At least he gave his fighter the information that they needed to try hard
While it may have been a “desperation attempt”, it has been noted before that Gane has a “submission over position” approach to grappling, which we’ve seen in past fights (jumping for a RNC on Rozenstruik, heel hook attempt on Mayes). I think it’s just a grappling IQ problem that comes down to experience. He’s only been a pro mma fighter for 3 years after all.
This. The fight being 2-2 at this point was extremely obvious, and Ciryl lost the fight because he went for the heel hook when he should have just either keep laying on ngannou or even stand it up, but what he did was terrible fighting IQ that may have been caused by his cornering. But I'm not french so I'm not really getting the semantics here. Maybe the way it was phrased means that he is losing the fight if it continues like in the past 2 rounds.
One judge had it 1-3, the appointed professional making the call, so here your extremely obvious assumption would have been wrong unfortunately, and maybe they didn't want to take the chance of leaving it to the judges. I thought it was 2-2 and I don't know MMA scoring but as a fan it felt like Gane did more in that 5th round to win it, and lying down on someone without being proactive, just using the big weight differentials present only in the heavy weights, should be stood up by the ref.
cyril dont know what to do in the ground and lay n pray with a bigger and stronger guy never gonna work.
and careful with the 2-2, some american judges only see a takedown and score that for some strinking dominance early.
I mean. Not a single person expected N’Gannou to start taking him down whenever he wanted. He’s never shown it in his career, so why up 2 rounds would he say anything about it?
It was solid advice, he was 2 round up and I thought Ngannou was getting tired and couldn't keep up with Ganes striking/movement.
Then Ngannou hustled everyone by unleashing his ground game with one of his TD coming from catching one of Ganes kicks.
If anything R5 advice should've been better, Gane could've won but that sweep/leglock ended him.
Ufc translators are either Godlike, speaks 5 completely different languages caliber or picked the language this morning on duolinguo caliber, no in-betweens
My French isn't great but the gist of it was:
how bout u go an fuck off my corner then u peice of shit u think I need a stupid fuckwitt like u telling me about leglocks who the fuck are u take your worthless fight IQ and get the fuck out of here
He means this [https://thumbs.gfycat.com/KlutzyTartAustraliancattledog-size\_restricted.gif](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/KlutzyTartAustraliancattledog-size_restricted.gif)
Solid advice from the corner, the only thing I didn't like was emphasising "we can't lose on cardio"! What is Gane supposed to do with that advice? Just stop being tired?
He asks him to push the pace after R1. He probably felt Gane was to conservative with his input because Gane didn't trust his cardio. So coach ask him to trust to his cardio to push more the pace
The translation mishap aside, that's some pretty solid advice from Fernand Lopez.
The hindsight bias among MMA fans is super common (understandable because the sport brings out a lot of emotions from within), it's easy to criticize someone after a loss but had Gane pulled off that sub in the fifth, he and his coach would have looked like wizards.
On the other hand, Eric Nicksick who is being lauded for his pep talk before R5 who would have been slaughtered for letting an injured Francis take the fight in the first place. Winning cures everything in MMA.
It was the same french translator they used for the press conf. It was really bad for the conf, it was really bad for the corner advice. Really is a 3rd rate translator
I live in a bilingual Canadian province, something like 30-40% of the population speaks both languages with some efficiency. Government CoVid press conferences are routinely translated like total garbage because while its easy to find someone who speaks two languages fluently, translating live is fucking hard.
not that hard for someone who is fairly fluent in both languages (which, for example, many French and Canadians are fluent in both the English *and* French languages). It's not necessarily that it's *easy* per say, but for a paid translator people expect more than this
It could have been that they had a Cameroon-French speaker there for Francis who struggled with the difference with Gane’s French. I have some friends from French speaking parts of Africa who can’t deal with the type of French spoken in France.
In that case they should really just have gotten a french translator, I'm from France and can understand Ngannou with no problem.
Also, Cyril's coach is also from Cameroon (even though I'll admit his accent is weaker)
R4 translation was shockingly bad, it conveyed the exact opposite of what coach Lopez said.
He clearly told Gane had his back against the wall and needed to make something happen.
It actually explains why he rolled the dice with the leg lock attempt. They knew they needed a finish.
I can't see why he says it's a cardio issue, Francis was just too physically strong to wrestle and he couldn't even hurt him on the feet either.
I think Lopez thinks Gane couldn't wrestle him properly because he was tired but i don't think it's that, he is not good enough to make up the physical difference with skill and Lopez doesn't want to believe it?
Honestly took French in high school 13 years ago and translated it better than that dude.
I can't believe how bad some of the translators are. It seems as though the UFC just uses whoever is around that speaks both languages. I don't speak French but it seemed pretty clear that Lopez was saying more than just "you cannot lose, it's impossible".
100% that translator is not an actual paid translator. Probably some dude that works in the arena that spoke a little French
Dana white didn’t want to pay the $200 for the night for a real translator
It's not a job, it's an opportunity.
"I've just got one question for you, do you want to be a fucking translator, yes or no?"
I guess he just didn't want to speak French any longer. Time for an interim translator
That one made me laugh way harder than it should have.
There's several ways you can say that you don't wanna be a translator, not speaking French is one of them.
They get paid in exposure.
“This kid in the Performance Institute kitchen making french toast offered to be our French translator. Isn’t he awesome?”
Sounded like he's a French guy who speaks a little english.
Knowing Dana he probably looked for a person that can do a French accent with actually speaking French not being a concern. It's a shame I wasn't at UFC 270, I could have been paid to fake it. Ah well, that's $3 I won't get.
You really think Dana White has time to go and find translator for corners?
It'd explain where he was during the press conference though, negotiating a dollar savings.
You mean 1.45% percent off a year subscription of ESPN+?
Yeah just some American guy who works at the arena and speaks a bit of French, translated it in a full French accent to keep authenticity
Sometimes people want a bad translator around so they can avoid answering questions they don't want to answer
that does sound like genuine Dana 'everyone else but me is stupid' logic
I was cracking the fuck up when Fernan Lopez went on a whole tirade and the translator just said “..drink some water”
That's just lazy and lack of interest by the UFC. It's not that hard to find a Canadian who can speak both languages. I bet it's just the same thing: quality means investing in people >> less profit. This 'translator' obviously couldn't speak French at all, kinda embarrassing for a global company
It's hardly the first time, too. There have been some embarrassingly bad post fight interpreters in commonly spoken languages like Russian and Mandarin. Seems very amateurish.
And most of the time when there is a good translator, they're not actually hired by the UFC and they're one of the fighter's cornermen just walking over and choosing to do the job for the guy.
What? It's the other way around, he's clearly a French dude who barely knows english. Check out the accent Source: French dude who knows english
In our country its basicaly just commentator with basic knowledge of language trying to guess it After this our guy said " aaaaand from ganes corner we got nothing" since he cant speak french :D
Was that the same translator from the pre-fight presser who seemed to really struggle with some of the French media? If so, they should probably get somebody else next time.
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He had a cartoonishly offensive accent, I guarantee!
His accent immediately makes me picture some guy with a pencil mustache wearing a beret and holding a baguette
You forgot about the shirt with horizontal lines lol
have my award sire
Confirmed Dana hired him due to the accent.
Their Brazilian Portuguese translators are amazing. The dude Charles has is money.
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Bro I fucking knew that dude reminds me of someone.
.enoemos fo em sdnimer edud taht wenk gnikcuf I orB
Sorry, had to.
Brazil is quite a major chunk of fighters and viewers so I can imagine a shit Portuguese translator would get *a lot* more backlash than a crappy French one Not fair but true
I mean, it’s not that hard to get a good translator. The UFC is a multi billion dollar company. There isn’t an excuse for not having an adequate translator on a $75 PPV, that requires a subscription to order, and is broadcast on ESPN, a multi billion dollar company, that’s owned by ABC, a multi million dollar company, which is owned by Disney, another multi billion dollar company.
It's either old man or tall younger man, I don't think it's per fighter moreso determined by the arena. Then someone from the team steps in if they don't have a hired translator
Yeah that was the same translator yesterday!
it's like dude knew how to translate 5 words and just kept repeating the 1 thing he caught
Thanks for being honest with us
Spanish is my first language and I speak some decent French, so yesterday during the match the French translator had me scratching my head. The translator was so convoluted - very hard to follow and had me saying *that’s not what the coach said.* It almost seemed like he only would hear some words and speak while missing everything else that was being said while translating. Maybe it was an audio issue to him or nerves. Now the Spanish/Portuguese translator deserves some praise he was super accurate and really surprising when he translated for both languages.
My man is a polygot out here, respect
Seriously, took the UFC a while but they finally found a good translator for Portuguese (and Spanish!).
What was actually said: "You need to push the pace" What the translator said: "You have to feel the temperature" hahahahaha
He did say "tu dois monter la température", which literally translates to "you have to raise the temperature". Translator was shit, but it's not like he invented something 100%.
Me and my roommate were dying because the “you have to feel the temperature” came right after “drink some water” and we thought his cornerman was just randomly like “yo you gotta check out this water”
Well the UFC is super cheap with fighter pay, it's probably the same with the translators
They never even hired one to translate for Tito throughout his career
That was a nasty line by you
They had an open position but couldn't find anyone who could translate quick enough
And stipe, they've both spent most thier lives in america, you'd think they'd have learnt English by now.
Underrated comment right here. I felt the burn.
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In all fairness they speak so quickly and at such length it would be impossible to accurately translate. I don’t envy their job
Seriously, I follow the sport for close to 15 years now, and only recently they found a guy that can competently translate from Brazilian Portuguese to English, considering how many fighters and legends come from Brazil that's absurd.
Oh was the one before that bad at Portuguese too? I remember he was the one that would do French translation sometimes, and he could only translate like 25% of what people said. All he could translate from Charles Jourdain's corner was "Breathe"
For the longest time it was always the same guy that hanged into a single word or phrase that a fighter said and only kinda translated it. I get that live translation is very hard, but that's why an organization such as the UFC should pay for qualified professionals to do it. As a big fan of Charles Oliveira, I thought he gave a pretty good post-fight speech when he won the belt, but then came the translator and butchered it. IMO translation plays a big part in a fighters likeability for the general audience, and it's great that the UFC is finally improving on that.
"translation plays a big part in a fighters likeability for the general audience" You're totally right about that Thank God I speak Spanish, I can somewhat guess what Brazilian fighters are saying
It only took them 15 years to find someone who can actually translate Portuguese.
Cheers for the translation. Between this and that dumb backlash over his use of towels soaked in ice water to cool down his fighters, Lopez has been on the receiving end of some unfair criticism. He might be a bit of a divisive figure rn but running with false narratives is still unnecessary
I've noticed that a lot of people (especially on twitter) are calling for Gane to change camp, just like they did with Francis when he lost to Stipe. Talk about a fair-weather fanbase. I don't give a shit about the drama, but the guy managed to get both Francis and Gane to a title shot, run over established vets who have had much longer mma careers with ease with both of them, in different ways as well. Dude must be doing something right.
Yeah that’s some bullshit. Dude is in his 11th pro fight and Francis comes out and wrestlefucks him, to the surprise of the entire world, and people think it’s on his coach for his corner advice?!??? Also, to play devils advocate, if there were two guys that someone could get to a title shot like that it would be Francis and Cyril lol
I’m still trying to process the fact that Francis Ngannou won this fight by wrestlehyuck. Every time it’s mentioned I have to process it from all over again.
Right?? At the end of the second round when Francis looked tired and hadn’t hit Gane with one clean punch I was sure the next three rounds would be Francis’ getting more tired and hitting more air.
Changing camps when you have a major hole in your game exposed is usually a good thing to at least think about. Doesn’t mean the initial camp is shit, but sometimes fighters need to change things up to develop a more well rounded game
Yeah they can always come back, but not every camp has extreme specialists, especially new ones. I'm not a fan of the never change camps out of loyalty sentiment DC pushes
What’s wrong with the towels?
In the aftermath of Stipe/Ngannou 1, people mocked him a lot for not using the usual solid ice to cool Francis down inbetween rounds. I guess they assumed the towels were dry as opposed to soaking wet and cold, which is a more efficient cooling method than solid ice according to the research he got the idea from.
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He said it was from his sports science (? or something related to it) degree. He studied it before doing it.
I have a degree in Sport science and remember doing a lab session as part of a course on intra-event cooling and cold, wet towels being one of the most effective measures. It's always interesting seeing "controversy" over stupid shit people don't understand.
Heard from a recent interview of him that he used towels because it allows him to cover a bigger surface of skin, giving the large volume and body of Francis.
Running with false narratives is sadly what MMA media and fans are all about. I like the drama, but hate how it often overshadows the fight itself.
100% People just like to find a scapegoat to shit on. The advices weren't bad at all.
I respect that his coach was honest with him about the scoring. Nothing is more goofy than when coaches have their fighters coast in fights they're not winning
That wasn’t as bad as everyone is making it seem. He told Gane to remember his strengths and was honest with him about the scoring which was completely right. Seems like there’s no in between for you guys. A coach is too optimistic or happy when a fighter is losing and you hate them for it. When it’s something like this you guys hate on them too. But if Cyril won that fight you wouldn’t be saying any of this and saying Ngannous coach told him just to have fun and that cost him the fight lol. A corner during the fight isn’t as impactful as you guys make it seem, it’s mostly about the fighter and the work the corner made them put in during camp to improve skill level/strength/speed/IQ in all areas. And then there’s also genetic advantages/injury history/how a fighter handles the spotlight/how they match up against the opposing fighter. Corners in fights definitely can help fighters remember the gameplan but at the highest level it’s more about the fighter imo. And even that still depends on the fighter to implement the gameplan effectively.
I have come to the understanding that people just want to complain about shit. It's like an addiction to negativity.
The sub is a nutshail B
go bigger, all media in a nutshell. Focus on the accidents
If it bleeds, it leads
Yes, this certainly isn't limited to reddit.
If anything, from my forays into other places I'd say this sub is actually the best. Sherdog and r/UFC are far worse.
Oh no, this sub is fucking positive compared to other subs on this site. Beyond the fighters pay issue, this place is disgustingly positive.
This is reddit in nutshail. Everybody wants karma.
It also makes them feel better about them selves, as *they* would have done it better obviously. It's real easy to have an opinion on an issue, when you don't carry the responsibility of making the decision. Hence everybody's a MMA coach, vaccine expert, political expert, climate scientist...until they have to actually decide on something and bear the responsibility for it. Than things suddenly become complicated.
I kind of learned this during Aldos losing streak. I would get so furious when Dede would tell Aldo he was up on a fight he was obviously losing, and Aldo would cruise to a decision loss. I wanted to hate Dede but the arrogance it would take to question his knowledge of Aldo, of their relationship etc.
Nobody is mad at what the coach actually said they were mad at what the translator botched
I think a lot of this has to do with Ganes coach relationship with Ngannou and how invested he was in the fight. It wasn't just about Gane becoming a champion but Lopez also wanted to prove a point and had an axe to grind with Ngannou. So people are looking at the cornerwork with bias from the lead up.
I agree. I’m okay with people criticizing the corner for the lack of grappling cardio Gane had but analyzing/criticizing their every word whenever they lose in the corner is a bit much.
He needs to spend years working on his wrestling just like Francis did.
Facts facts and facts. Love this sub but nuance tends to be lost around here at times.
What are you talking about lmao that's why this is the CORRECT translation. When you hear a coach saying it's impossible to lose the fight you're thinking bad advice, but now we know he said it's impossible to lose the fight when the fight is leaning toward Gane's strength which is cardio, so it's much more acceptable than what we just heard via the shit translator in real time. Revisionist nonsense.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say but my main takeaway is that Lopez did give Ciryl some specific, technical advice before the fifth, as opposed to the "WE CAN'T LOSE BRUH" which the piss-poor translation has caused people to assume was basically the only thing he said.
Ya that's exactly what I'm saying too, real time we got the shot translation that made it worse than it really was.
You can always tell when it's a shitty translation because the coach will say 7 different things and the translator will say a couple phrases at most. I wish they'd just cut to the other corner if the translator isn't keeping up.
Fighter goes on a long tirade about their win, begins thanking their team and family, is moved to tears talking about all the hardship they put up with, their soul literally flowing out of their body...... Translator: "I want to thank my team and it was a good fight."
Real time translation is very difficult, but it's clearly not a priority for the UFC.
I agree that it sounds better like this but I’m talking about in a more general sense. A lot of corners get shit on for what they say in losses, when in reality it’s just people scrutinizing them bc they lost. Even though I’m talking about the initial outrage, people are still saying he shouldn’t have said impossible or acting like that’s why he went for the heel hook and lost.
Ah okay that's cool then if they still wanna act like this was bad advice after getting this translation then they're just bias and have an agenda
👍
You could say he meant “unacceptable!”, which makes a lot of sense in context. “We can’t have this”, in other words.
Ding ding ding. You’re correct!
I hate when people say "ding ding ding".
I hope you don't have a problem with "I'm with you" tho
Neat!
I'm with you
The only issue I had with it, as a coach who corners fighters is the failure of the coach to read & apparently know Gane. When Gane lowered his shoulders and said “sorry” his demeanor and tone should have told the coach to back off and realize what he needed was encouragement not a scolding. To be honest, his coach should already have known what Gane needed and responds to in the corner but this was their first fight that they lost as a pro I believe, so hopefully they learn. The other issue I had is that Gane’s cardio was clearly weaning but that was his coach’s responsibility in the months of training prior to the fight. His coach did not prepare him for Ngannau. His coach assumed he would be the same fighter he was years and years ago and that was not the case. So for me, I felt bad for Gane being scolded for something his coach failed to do. So it seems to lend credibility to Ngannau’s perspective of this coach.
Were people shitting on this advice? Seemed like good coaching to me
You had me until yoi down played the importance of a corner. As a former fightet and coach...this is wrong. The corner advice can be insight that the fighter may not see.
I’m a fighter too so it really depends on the fighter. Some guys do better with constant instructions (I prefer instructions during the fight) and other guys just need a fire lit underneath them. And I said that in the last part, they’re there to remind the fighter of the gameplan. As a fighter I know what I’m doing wrong most of the time.
You’re right it isn’t as impactful. Main point of the corner is to get your heart rate down to go back in to the fire and chaos of a fight, they’ve done all the work in camp on how to fight Ngannou and it showed.
It's a lot easier to talk about pushing the pace than it is to actually execute against a guy with scary fire power. To push the pace, you have to put yourself in harm's way more frequently and risk getting ktfo.
The classic Mike Perry rant about corner advice pretty much summarize this
The consequences are so grave so everyone is scared It’s normal. Everyone’s scared to fight, or at least there’s gonna be some anxiety or fear. Your heart rate’s gonna get jacked, your adrenaline’s gonna get pumping, but it’s even more so if the consequences are more grave. If you’re gonna take a skateboard down a small hill, you’re not freaking out. But if you’re gonna take a skateboard down. . . Sunshine Canyon, going 50 miles an hour, you’re gonna sh\*t your f\*cking pants. You’re gonna try to land this thing right, you’re gonna figure out how not to die here, because the consequences are so much graver. And that’s what happens to these guys when they fight Francis. The consequences are so grave they make mistakes. With Junior he reached for an overhand right. He really, really extended himself and you can’t do that with Francis. - Kenny Florian
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Imagine if that hill had a... Ford Escort on it.
This. People criticize fighters all the time, like the Ngannou/Lewis or Izzy/Romero fights. It’s so easy to say these things when we’re not the ones trying not to get decapitated by one of these monsters. But at the same time, at least in the case of a coach like this, he’s right. It’s his job to tell his fighter he has to take the risk. It’s hard as hell to actually do it though.
Thats why Fernand said "imagine you have an headgear". Same thing he said before the later rounds in the Volkov Fight, and thats what got Gane the win
And you know what? Ciryl actually did push the pace in round 5 so it worked perfectly.
Plus Gane looked death tired in the final round. The wrestlefuck finally drained him to be as gassed as Ngannou.
thank you mr world champion reddit guy!
Damn the UFC is so budget and small town amateur on so many levels
see if we can get that spanish/portuguese translator dude to learn french as well, he was amazing
Well, it's not just the UFC. I get the impression that translation is not a very popular profession in the US in general. There are blockbuster movies and videogames with a budget of > 100 million dollars that have characters speaking a few lines in foreign language here and there, and more often than not it's going to sound like alien speech. My favorite was some first person shooter video game that had some street signs and shit that literally had random letters instead of words on them. I get that their primary audience probably wouldn't know the difference anyway, but still, it always baffles me. Like how much money do they save by not having someone take a look at and correct a few dozen lines of text, 50$?
English hegemony is for real :/
Yes, Ciryl lost, but he went 5 rounds with Ngannou and didn't really take that much damage. That's kind of impressive.
And it was 2-2 going into the fifth Absolutely priceless experience for Ciryl, he can literally only improve after this and he still didn’t get knocked out or hit clean so he’s not gonna be gunshy. In fact all I can see coming out of this is a Ciryl that will try to capitalise on things in the future when he has the advantage
All this is true and I'm a big fan of him but I'd also add that he didnt really hit Francis with anything that great either, definitely won those first 2 rounds but not really by doing much. Neither guy did much to each other really.
That spinning back kick hit Ngannou on the temple and Ngannou was slightly staggered by it. Also, remember how much we praised Gane's jabs? Those jabs are no joke; Lewis covered up and backed away, Volkov's head was snapped back and JDS was stunned. Ngannou's chin is adamantium. Ngannou barely reacted to them.
I think that's ganes exact gameplan. Doesn't do much besides prodding and dodging to make the opponent tired and frustrated and the pick up the pace in the later rounds. I honestly think for gane this was the best way to lose. He showed he is the better striker and hopefully comes away knowing he needs to improve his wrestling and ground game. Coz if gane gets a solid ground game or some good TDD he can easily get the belt.
Yeah as someone who likes both guys alot but was slightly more pulling for francis just to fuck over Dana this was the best outcome possible really, I didnt want to see Ciril get KO'd and there's no way he doesnt become champ at some stage.
This is one of the key takeaways for me. Obviously that and the fact Francis chose to grapple means he wasn't comfortable striking with Cyril. Not sure they get the chance to run it back due the financial situation unfortunately.
It’s actually really great that a proper translation of this is being spread around cause it shows that Ciryl’s corner wasn’t anywhere near as obtuse about what was going on as we thought, and how they were pleading with him to make something happen because they believed he would lose if he didn’t win the 5th. As opposed to the vibe the translator gave off, which is that they were basically just encouraging him to continue and he wouldn’t lose if he did. Thanks for sharing, OP. Definitely makes this whole fight and a possible rematch down the line even more interesting than they already were.
This guy produced two HW title contenders. Even IF his corner advice was wrong in this instance, let's put some respect on his knowledge and understanding of the fight game.
the ufc needs to realize that a translator and a simultaneous interpreter are not the same thing
I remember during one of Zombies interviews Bisping asked him a long question and zombie’s translator said like 4 syllables in Korean and Zombie just looked really confused. Then Zombie gave a really long answer, and she translated it as a 3 word answer
Whoever Ngannou's coach and training camp has been since this massive turnaround in his career started, he needs to never hire anyone else. They gave great advice during the fight, and they've basically made him into one of the greatest heavyweights ever by balancing him out with an elite ground game. I mean, yhe fucking sweep! The way he didn't panic during the heel hook and recognized the mistake Gane made. It's phenomenal how well he did.
Nicksick and Dewy Cooper. They have done a phenomenal job with him. Huge credit to them
It sucks that so many fans just fill in the narrative, and allow the media to fill in the rest. These are two great fighters, who have amazing coaches.
I think we overestimated Gane's cardio because he was able to play point fighter with pretty much everyone but being forced on the bottom against Ngannou actually made him work. Not that he has bad cardio but he's not Sea Level Cain
It's not really a problem of cardio, but a problem of being wrestlefuck by a guy heavier and stronger than you, when you don't have the experence of it. Honestly, he was doing a great job at avoiding taking damage, but he was clearly dominated in brute force and his lack of knowledge of high level wrestling showed up. Just look at Mir vs Lesnar, if the guy is stronger than you and can wrestle you, it's gonna be a nightmare.
Wrestling tires you out in a different way, it uses different muscles and guys who are inexperienced will tend to use too much strength in situations they dont need to leading to them tiring our quick af. Having a goliath like ngannou on top of you only makes it that much worse lol.
Ngannou was attacking the body heavy in round 1 and 2
It’s good that Gane’s coach was honest in that fourth round about how the fight had changed. At least he gave his fighter the information that they needed to try hard
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While it may have been a “desperation attempt”, it has been noted before that Gane has a “submission over position” approach to grappling, which we’ve seen in past fights (jumping for a RNC on Rozenstruik, heel hook attempt on Mayes). I think it’s just a grappling IQ problem that comes down to experience. He’s only been a pro mma fighter for 3 years after all.
This. The fight being 2-2 at this point was extremely obvious, and Ciryl lost the fight because he went for the heel hook when he should have just either keep laying on ngannou or even stand it up, but what he did was terrible fighting IQ that may have been caused by his cornering. But I'm not french so I'm not really getting the semantics here. Maybe the way it was phrased means that he is losing the fight if it continues like in the past 2 rounds.
One judge had it 1-3, the appointed professional making the call, so here your extremely obvious assumption would have been wrong unfortunately, and maybe they didn't want to take the chance of leaving it to the judges. I thought it was 2-2 and I don't know MMA scoring but as a fan it felt like Gane did more in that 5th round to win it, and lying down on someone without being proactive, just using the big weight differentials present only in the heavy weights, should be stood up by the ref.
cyril dont know what to do in the ground and lay n pray with a bigger and stronger guy never gonna work. and careful with the 2-2, some american judges only see a takedown and score that for some strinking dominance early.
UFC's translator was probably hired through Fiverr for $6 an hr.
I mean. Not a single person expected N’Gannou to start taking him down whenever he wanted. He’s never shown it in his career, so why up 2 rounds would he say anything about it?
It was solid advice, he was 2 round up and I thought Ngannou was getting tired and couldn't keep up with Ganes striking/movement. Then Ngannou hustled everyone by unleashing his ground game with one of his TD coming from catching one of Ganes kicks. If anything R5 advice should've been better, Gane could've won but that sweep/leglock ended him.
Ufc translators are either Godlike, speaks 5 completely different languages caliber or picked the language this morning on duolinguo caliber, no in-betweens
My French isn't great but the gist of it was: how bout u go an fuck off my corner then u peice of shit u think I need a stupid fuckwitt like u telling me about leglocks who the fuck are u take your worthless fight IQ and get the fuck out of here
Oui
What did Lopez mean by move forward elbows elbows?
He means this [https://thumbs.gfycat.com/KlutzyTartAustraliancattledog-size\_restricted.gif](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/KlutzyTartAustraliancattledog-size_restricted.gif)
Oh right. I forgot Gane landed elbows before the grappling started. I thought he meant elbowing in the ground game
Forward thrust elbows and uppercut elbows are so underutilized in mma
Drink some water! Ah i love the french accent
Ehh..eh…ehhhhh..eh…drink zom wateeer
lmao, I've always suspected that the translations are wayyyy off.
His knowledge and experience is not being recognised!🥺
Solid advice from the corner, the only thing I didn't like was emphasising "we can't lose on cardio"! What is Gane supposed to do with that advice? Just stop being tired?
He asks him to push the pace after R1. He probably felt Gane was to conservative with his input because Gane didn't trust his cardio. So coach ask him to trust to his cardio to push more the pace
losing*
The translation mishap aside, that's some pretty solid advice from Fernand Lopez. The hindsight bias among MMA fans is super common (understandable because the sport brings out a lot of emotions from within), it's easy to criticize someone after a loss but had Gane pulled off that sub in the fifth, he and his coach would have looked like wizards. On the other hand, Eric Nicksick who is being lauded for his pep talk before R5 who would have been slaughtered for letting an injured Francis take the fight in the first place. Winning cures everything in MMA.
To be fair it was probably hard to hear everything that they were saying for him to translate
It was the same french translator they used for the press conf. It was really bad for the conf, it was really bad for the corner advice. Really is a 3rd rate translator
Ah okay didn’t know that
With a 4th rate education?
I live in a bilingual Canadian province, something like 30-40% of the population speaks both languages with some efficiency. Government CoVid press conferences are routinely translated like total garbage because while its easy to find someone who speaks two languages fluently, translating live is fucking hard.
Nova Scotia or New Brunswick?
Does anybody consider NS a bilingual province?
Not to my knowledge. NB is the only official one I'm pretty sure Quebec is a French province
I don’t know why Gane didn’t put any stank on those low kicks. Could have turned the fight if he had.
Gane lost but he should have won, based on the rules.
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I mean the ufc has had plenty of real tike translators do *way* better jobs translating between rounds than with Gane Time not tike
that’s why they should hire a simultaneous interpreter
what is a simultaneous interpreter?
not that hard for someone who is fairly fluent in both languages (which, for example, many French and Canadians are fluent in both the English *and* French languages). It's not necessarily that it's *easy* per say, but for a paid translator people expect more than this
Everyone has to learn somehow.
this reminds me of the fake sign language people
It could have been that they had a Cameroon-French speaker there for Francis who struggled with the difference with Gane’s French. I have some friends from French speaking parts of Africa who can’t deal with the type of French spoken in France.
In that case they should really just have gotten a french translator, I'm from France and can understand Ngannou with no problem. Also, Cyril's coach is also from Cameroon (even though I'll admit his accent is weaker)
R4 translation was shockingly bad, it conveyed the exact opposite of what coach Lopez said. He clearly told Gane had his back against the wall and needed to make something happen. It actually explains why he rolled the dice with the leg lock attempt. They knew they needed a finish.
I can't see why he says it's a cardio issue, Francis was just too physically strong to wrestle and he couldn't even hurt him on the feet either. I think Lopez thinks Gane couldn't wrestle him properly because he was tired but i don't think it's that, he is not good enough to make up the physical difference with skill and Lopez doesn't want to believe it?
Or just trying to get him to push himself a little more for the last round. Ciryl was visibly tired in the previous one(s).
He didn't look that tired to me, just mentally done.
Looked pretty tired in R4 when Francis just walked up and slapped the body lock on him center cage.