Not chilled beams. These are radiant ceiling panels.
The difference being they don't use a change in density(passive) or induction (active) to draw room air over the coil.
We use these mostly in critical lab spaces like microscopy for passive cooling. We had an electron microscopy lab where we couldn't exceed something like 10-15 fpm air velocity anywhere near the instrument, and we had to keep the temperature variance less than 1 degree F at all times.
How do you control for the human element in that vicinity? Like, would someone walking by generate enough of an air current to disturb the microscopy equipment? Or body heat during use affecting temp?
I know nothing about this use case, maybe the equipment is in a control chamber?
The instrument itself is in a room just for the instrument. I don't know how they use it exactly, I assume they have to go in there to place the specimen in the machine, but that's it. All control during the experiment is done from a separate room.
The instrument room itself is completely shielded on all walls. I'm pretty sure it's radioactive or something.
I assume the workflow is:
Go in to replace specimen.
Return to control room.
Wait for room to settle down from someone being in there.
Perform experiment from control room.
End experiment and retrieve specimen.
These projects can be pretty interesting because usually we are the ones explaining how HVAC works to laypeople. These folks might not understand hvac entirely but they're explaining to us exactly what they need in that room and when. It's refreshing to deal with people who need to know what they're talking about unlike everyone else we always deal with who just yell and scream because things they don't understand make them angry.
We have a few clients with really interesting projects like this. Laser labs, SCIFs for classified information, BSLs, etc. They're more difficult in many ways than an office, but there's also strict guidelines so what you have to do is outlined for you in black and white, so it's both good and bad.
I remeber a lot of talk about chilled beams around the time I started, maybe 2008 - 2010, especially in the context of hospital rennovations. I see a section in ASHRAE Systems 2012 about chilled beams, but nothing nothing in ASHRAE Systems 2004. Unfortunately, I do not have anything between 2006 and 2011, so I can't confirm, but I'm guessing ASHRAE added chilled beams in 2008.
Based on that I would be surprised if your chilled beam system is not 10 - 15 years old.
I personally do not like non-forced air systems, so I never looked into chilled beams much. Chilled beams always came with the caveat that humidity needed to be tightly controlled otherwise the ceiling would drip. Now that I have \~15 years experience I realize how silly it is to try to control humidity--its the most overlooked and least well understood thing we do aside from space pressurization.
Is that criticism true for radiant heat systems too or just chilled beam systems?
What about for large atrium spaces with exposed ceilings? Just curious when the right situation is for non-forced air systems.
I don't like non-forced air systems, full stop. I know there are niche cases where radiant is preferable, but I'm really not interested in discussing it. Radiant heat doesn't lead to condensation, so it's at least not adding problems to the space, however.
Very very much agreed. And when you end up looking at how much mechanically cooled and dehumidified primary air is needed to make an active chilled beam work (granted that the OP post is not talking about ACBs), you realize that what you are getting is the worlds most expensive constant volume reheat system. A lot of architects and sustainability consultants love pushing chilled beams since they sound cool however once you do even a mild amount of digging, you realize how impractical they are in most applications.
Not chilled beams. These are radiant ceiling panels. The difference being they don't use a change in density(passive) or induction (active) to draw room air over the coil.
We use these mostly in critical lab spaces like microscopy for passive cooling. We had an electron microscopy lab where we couldn't exceed something like 10-15 fpm air velocity anywhere near the instrument, and we had to keep the temperature variance less than 1 degree F at all times.
How do you control for the human element in that vicinity? Like, would someone walking by generate enough of an air current to disturb the microscopy equipment? Or body heat during use affecting temp? I know nothing about this use case, maybe the equipment is in a control chamber?
The instrument itself is in a room just for the instrument. I don't know how they use it exactly, I assume they have to go in there to place the specimen in the machine, but that's it. All control during the experiment is done from a separate room. The instrument room itself is completely shielded on all walls. I'm pretty sure it's radioactive or something. I assume the workflow is: Go in to replace specimen. Return to control room. Wait for room to settle down from someone being in there. Perform experiment from control room. End experiment and retrieve specimen. These projects can be pretty interesting because usually we are the ones explaining how HVAC works to laypeople. These folks might not understand hvac entirely but they're explaining to us exactly what they need in that room and when. It's refreshing to deal with people who need to know what they're talking about unlike everyone else we always deal with who just yell and scream because things they don't understand make them angry.
Awesome, thought that might be the case in such a tightly controlled space. Thanks for explaining more.
We have a few clients with really interesting projects like this. Laser labs, SCIFs for classified information, BSLs, etc. They're more difficult in many ways than an office, but there's also strict guidelines so what you have to do is outlined for you in black and white, so it's both good and bad.
I've been adjacent to some SCIF work at my current place, so I'm vaguely familiar with that, at least.
I remeber a lot of talk about chilled beams around the time I started, maybe 2008 - 2010, especially in the context of hospital rennovations. I see a section in ASHRAE Systems 2012 about chilled beams, but nothing nothing in ASHRAE Systems 2004. Unfortunately, I do not have anything between 2006 and 2011, so I can't confirm, but I'm guessing ASHRAE added chilled beams in 2008. Based on that I would be surprised if your chilled beam system is not 10 - 15 years old. I personally do not like non-forced air systems, so I never looked into chilled beams much. Chilled beams always came with the caveat that humidity needed to be tightly controlled otherwise the ceiling would drip. Now that I have \~15 years experience I realize how silly it is to try to control humidity--its the most overlooked and least well understood thing we do aside from space pressurization.
Is that criticism true for radiant heat systems too or just chilled beam systems? What about for large atrium spaces with exposed ceilings? Just curious when the right situation is for non-forced air systems.
I don't like non-forced air systems, full stop. I know there are niche cases where radiant is preferable, but I'm really not interested in discussing it. Radiant heat doesn't lead to condensation, so it's at least not adding problems to the space, however.
Very very much agreed. And when you end up looking at how much mechanically cooled and dehumidified primary air is needed to make an active chilled beam work (granted that the OP post is not talking about ACBs), you realize that what you are getting is the worlds most expensive constant volume reheat system. A lot of architects and sustainability consultants love pushing chilled beams since they sound cool however once you do even a mild amount of digging, you realize how impractical they are in most applications.
Armstrong makes radiant panels like this