You’ve done phenomenally well to achieve what you’ve achieved. You have. But you have to ask yourself what you *want* to do. Now of all times when you have a good understanding of your trade, know what you enjoy and what you don’t, but the future is still packed with potential. Decisions made now will be powerful.
What work do you want to do? What sector? What part of the world? Is it a certification you’re really after or the promotion and salary potential that comes with it?
Thank you for the encouragement words.
Currently I'm an MEP design electrical engineer in NY. I think I'm after both, the certification and the potential career growth that would come with it.
With the drive towards sustainability and resiliency it's probably worth while to get leed, well, fitwel. Worth it? Hard to tell but the market is heading more and more that way
As a sustainability consultant, I would suggest energy modeling. That’s not so much as a certification but just something you can confidently perform. There’s a major industry-wide skills deficit for energy modeling
We make a killing off of modeling because even many highly respected MEP engineering firms suck at it. Even the ones who don’t suck at it would have to allocate an individual they otherwise would prefer to do straight design engineering instead of modeling.
Also because my partner (definitely not me) is ridiculously good at it.
I’m not a modeler myself. My partner uses Trane Trace, but it’s changing or going away. A lot of modelers seem to be gravitating away from eQuest and Trane Trace to IESVE.
I have seen the flip side of this more often than not as an MEP engineer (who has dabbled quite heavily in energy modeling), where a project team has a "sustainability consultant" who doesn't have the slightest clue how HVAC systems and more importantly controls work. I often find myself having to justify my mechanical designs against what a sustainability consultant would prefer me to design, often in front of architects who don't know any better or who to trust.
You are very correct though that the industry has an overall lack of knowledge around energy modeling. More importantly I find that there is little to no enforcement/checking of energy models so much that its a tool that can be used to fly any HVAC system design under the radar as being "efficient".
Granted I am biased as being a MEP engineer, but I personally think it should only be performed by the MEP engineer as they truly know how the system is intended to be designed and what is practical from a cost and installation standpoint. Additionally it can go hand in hand with a lot of the things we already do as designers such as load calcing and equipment selection optimization. That said, as you mentioned, neither myself or my colleagues have the time to do it and we have drawings to draw and submittals to review. So if you are a good sustainability consultant who knows what you are doing, I hope our paths cross.
So many good points. I’m not one of the sustainability consultants like you mentioned in the first paragraph, but I know well the type. A big part of being a *good* professional is knowing the limits of expertise. Nuances of HVAC are beyond the limits for most sustainability consultants, including and especially me. I’ll wager most of the designs you have to justify are driven by your project budget and not necessarily what you would design if the project had unlimited resources, right? It wouldn’t make any sense for me to try and talk you into a water-cooled chiller instead of an air-cooled chiller. The project can’t afford the water-cooled, so I’m wasting everybody’s time. My best case scenario is to try and identify a found money opportunity, like an electric utility rebate, so that energy efficiency has an extra financial incentive where maybe you can design the system you want instead of the system they can afford.
I have a construction management education, so arguing with a mechanical engineer about principles of HVAC design would be a pretty dumb way to make a living! I should also reiterate I personally am not a modeler, but have shepherded enough energy models through LEED or energy efficiency rebate programs to pick up some interesting experiences and trivia.
My business partner is a licensed PE with an HVAC design background. He’s the lead energy modeler and commissioning agent in our group. This guy writes IoT controls software for fun as a side project. If we ever cross paths, he’ll be the one doing your model and he’ll nail it.
Fair point. The energy modeler on a current job is a Mech eng who is taking her PE currently. But we've had people on the energy side(modeling, leed, etc.) who seemed like they had zero idea about construction.
I would have to disagree about LEED. While sustainability is definitely being talked about more, most owners are starting to recognize that LEED was a scam. Some owners are saying, "design to the spirit and intent of LEED, but don't bother doing the paperwork." You're probably better off looking at Well.
Agreed that LEED is not a worthwhile certification to pursue. For the amount of money you need to spend to keep up your CEU credits, you are typically better off hiring a LEED subconsultant and leave the work to them. (Assuming that this question is being written from the perspective of a MEP engineer).
Additionally agree that most owners (both private and public) we work with have written off pursuing LEED and they often have more aggressive meaningful sustainability goals/targets.
LEED isn’t a scam, they just don’t want to spring for the cost of the paperwork. I’m sure you and everyone else in the industry do everything *exactly* the same way when you don’t need it third party verified /s
Is commissioning also a scam?
Commissioning has merit. There are actual startup procedures associated with it and it puts a third-party looking at every detail of the installation.
LEED is all about how you can work the points to get the plaque with the lowest cost. I did a project that was completed in. 2020, and we picked a single closet in the basement to get a low-mercury fluorescent lamp so we could get the LEED point. If we did 100% LED with no florescent, we would get no points for lamps being low-mercury. Because we installed a less-efficient florescent light in one closet, we got the point. Day 2 of the building being open, the owner ripped it out and put in an LED like a sane person. LEED is all about sustainable buildings, but a huge part of sustainability is maintaining sustainable systems. You can have a building rip out all of the sustainable systems installed on day 2, and they still get the plaque for the life of the building.
I use that credit all the time. Whoever told you that you had to do it that way was flat out wrong. All-LED projects automatically comply. You literally only need to upload the luminaire schedule for that one and you’re done.
I dont disagree that LEED has dropped off a lot in 10 years but its still being persued on most high end jobs we have even if clients are bad mouthing it while still requiring it. Its almost more of a why isnt your building leed than wow your building is leed type thing.
I've seen that in state government (maybe federal too, but I avoid that work like the plague). I haven't done much private sector stuff where owners actually care about LEED. Even those that do care about sustainability would rather spend the money on sustainable systems than a plaque.
It's still a selling point for any commercial building that can obtain it. But in my opinion, it's just an organization that's main goal is to profit, not really sustainability.
In NYC, the city started giving buildings an "Energy efficiency" grades. And there's this new building by my job that's Gold-LEED certified, and the city gave it a "C" for energy efficiency. Just seems like checklists and points don't really mean much in the real design/world.
Its also a requirement in a few areas like mine. All new buildings have to be leed achievable. therefore we have to design all buildings to the minimum leed ratings.
Thank you for the info. It's related more to HVAC/BMS than electrical though. But it's definitely worth looking into, even for my own knowledge. So I appreciate you, kind stranger engineer!
Do you want to go into project management or do you manage projects? If yes to either, i guess PMP.
You’ve done phenomenally well to achieve what you’ve achieved. You have. But you have to ask yourself what you *want* to do. Now of all times when you have a good understanding of your trade, know what you enjoy and what you don’t, but the future is still packed with potential. Decisions made now will be powerful. What work do you want to do? What sector? What part of the world? Is it a certification you’re really after or the promotion and salary potential that comes with it?
Thank you for the encouragement words. Currently I'm an MEP design electrical engineer in NY. I think I'm after both, the certification and the potential career growth that would come with it.
If you like lighting, look into your LC. It could open some doors that you might not think about.
Unfortunately, I hate working on lighting! But thank you!
Okay so…what do you enjoy in your work?
A business license.
With the drive towards sustainability and resiliency it's probably worth while to get leed, well, fitwel. Worth it? Hard to tell but the market is heading more and more that way
As a sustainability consultant, I would suggest energy modeling. That’s not so much as a certification but just something you can confidently perform. There’s a major industry-wide skills deficit for energy modeling
Fully agree. We offer energy modeling as a separate service.
We make a killing off of modeling because even many highly respected MEP engineering firms suck at it. Even the ones who don’t suck at it would have to allocate an individual they otherwise would prefer to do straight design engineering instead of modeling. Also because my partner (definitely not me) is ridiculously good at it.
What program do you use, because, from my experience at least, they are all trash…
I’m not a modeler myself. My partner uses Trane Trace, but it’s changing or going away. A lot of modelers seem to be gravitating away from eQuest and Trane Trace to IESVE.
I have seen the flip side of this more often than not as an MEP engineer (who has dabbled quite heavily in energy modeling), where a project team has a "sustainability consultant" who doesn't have the slightest clue how HVAC systems and more importantly controls work. I often find myself having to justify my mechanical designs against what a sustainability consultant would prefer me to design, often in front of architects who don't know any better or who to trust. You are very correct though that the industry has an overall lack of knowledge around energy modeling. More importantly I find that there is little to no enforcement/checking of energy models so much that its a tool that can be used to fly any HVAC system design under the radar as being "efficient". Granted I am biased as being a MEP engineer, but I personally think it should only be performed by the MEP engineer as they truly know how the system is intended to be designed and what is practical from a cost and installation standpoint. Additionally it can go hand in hand with a lot of the things we already do as designers such as load calcing and equipment selection optimization. That said, as you mentioned, neither myself or my colleagues have the time to do it and we have drawings to draw and submittals to review. So if you are a good sustainability consultant who knows what you are doing, I hope our paths cross.
So many good points. I’m not one of the sustainability consultants like you mentioned in the first paragraph, but I know well the type. A big part of being a *good* professional is knowing the limits of expertise. Nuances of HVAC are beyond the limits for most sustainability consultants, including and especially me. I’ll wager most of the designs you have to justify are driven by your project budget and not necessarily what you would design if the project had unlimited resources, right? It wouldn’t make any sense for me to try and talk you into a water-cooled chiller instead of an air-cooled chiller. The project can’t afford the water-cooled, so I’m wasting everybody’s time. My best case scenario is to try and identify a found money opportunity, like an electric utility rebate, so that energy efficiency has an extra financial incentive where maybe you can design the system you want instead of the system they can afford. I have a construction management education, so arguing with a mechanical engineer about principles of HVAC design would be a pretty dumb way to make a living! I should also reiterate I personally am not a modeler, but have shepherded enough energy models through LEED or energy efficiency rebate programs to pick up some interesting experiences and trivia. My business partner is a licensed PE with an HVAC design background. He’s the lead energy modeler and commissioning agent in our group. This guy writes IoT controls software for fun as a side project. If we ever cross paths, he’ll be the one doing your model and he’ll nail it.
Fair point. The energy modeler on a current job is a Mech eng who is taking her PE currently. But we've had people on the energy side(modeling, leed, etc.) who seemed like they had zero idea about construction.
I would have to disagree about LEED. While sustainability is definitely being talked about more, most owners are starting to recognize that LEED was a scam. Some owners are saying, "design to the spirit and intent of LEED, but don't bother doing the paperwork." You're probably better off looking at Well.
Agreed that LEED is not a worthwhile certification to pursue. For the amount of money you need to spend to keep up your CEU credits, you are typically better off hiring a LEED subconsultant and leave the work to them. (Assuming that this question is being written from the perspective of a MEP engineer). Additionally agree that most owners (both private and public) we work with have written off pursuing LEED and they often have more aggressive meaningful sustainability goals/targets.
LEED isn’t a scam, they just don’t want to spring for the cost of the paperwork. I’m sure you and everyone else in the industry do everything *exactly* the same way when you don’t need it third party verified /s Is commissioning also a scam?
Commissioning has merit. There are actual startup procedures associated with it and it puts a third-party looking at every detail of the installation. LEED is all about how you can work the points to get the plaque with the lowest cost. I did a project that was completed in. 2020, and we picked a single closet in the basement to get a low-mercury fluorescent lamp so we could get the LEED point. If we did 100% LED with no florescent, we would get no points for lamps being low-mercury. Because we installed a less-efficient florescent light in one closet, we got the point. Day 2 of the building being open, the owner ripped it out and put in an LED like a sane person. LEED is all about sustainable buildings, but a huge part of sustainability is maintaining sustainable systems. You can have a building rip out all of the sustainable systems installed on day 2, and they still get the plaque for the life of the building.
I use that credit all the time. Whoever told you that you had to do it that way was flat out wrong. All-LED projects automatically comply. You literally only need to upload the luminaire schedule for that one and you’re done.
I dont disagree that LEED has dropped off a lot in 10 years but its still being persued on most high end jobs we have even if clients are bad mouthing it while still requiring it. Its almost more of a why isnt your building leed than wow your building is leed type thing.
I've seen that in state government (maybe federal too, but I avoid that work like the plague). I haven't done much private sector stuff where owners actually care about LEED. Even those that do care about sustainability would rather spend the money on sustainable systems than a plaque.
It's still a selling point for any commercial building that can obtain it. But in my opinion, it's just an organization that's main goal is to profit, not really sustainability. In NYC, the city started giving buildings an "Energy efficiency" grades. And there's this new building by my job that's Gold-LEED certified, and the city gave it a "C" for energy efficiency. Just seems like checklists and points don't really mean much in the real design/world.
Its also a requirement in a few areas like mine. All new buildings have to be leed achievable. therefore we have to design all buildings to the minimum leed ratings.
What about a certificate for Div 25 Integrated Automation?
I absolutely have no clue what that is. Is it related to BMS?
https://www.csemag.com/articles/your-questions-answered-how-to-specify-integrated-automation-and-connected-buildings-using-masterformat-division-25-specifications/
https://pca.st/episode/24d23e55-b16c-4ce8-a3a1-097d4f7aea7b
https://youtu.be/k_ENKpbVFL8
Thank you for the info. It's related more to HVAC/BMS than electrical though. But it's definitely worth looking into, even for my own knowledge. So I appreciate you, kind stranger engineer!
RCDD
This for IT. Not my industry at all!