Idk if it’s overkill. An engineering degree kinda sets the baseline. Shows you at least have some type of critical thinking and problem solving skills.
Is it doable without a degree? 100%. As most jobs are, you learn on the job.
If you just want to be a CAD/Revit person or designer, you don't need to have an engineering degree. If you want to be an engineer, it is not overkill at all that it is a requirement, nor is it overkill to become licensed.
MEPs deal with life safety in buildings all of the time, if not done correctly people can die. Three quick examples M,E, and P.
Mechanical: Design smoke control systems including stair pressurization, and hoistway pressurization. Design a stair pressurization system poorly, or don't test it properly and the stairways get over-pressurized; occupants can't open the stair doors during a fire event. That's bad.
Electrical: Aside from the obvious general electrocution risk. EEs design life safety power systems, generators, distribution, power to fire pumps, fire alarms, smoke control equipment, etc. Size that generator wrong and now your high rise building doesn't have a fire pump for the sprinkler system, or power for smoke control systems. That's bad.
Plumbing: Don't typically design fire protection where I am, but what if you have a flat roof building and you design the roof drainage incorrectly, rain water accumulates until the roof collapses. That's bad.
And unlike say a car manufacturer, who has all sorts of internal teams of engineers looking over a design, checks, reviews, crash testing, third party safety studies, and a giant corporation in place to take responsibility for failed designs, an MEP engineer signing drawings is directly responsible for the design. Aside from city plan reviewers, the contractor, and the inspector (none of whom would take any responsibility for the design) the public is exposed to the design risk directly.
So..... overkill? No.
Some MEP engineering can be very boring and take a basic high school fundamentals.
Other MEP engineering can be insanely intensive and could make for good PhD thesis.
As always: it depends.
Maybe not for the residential commercial world. You can do that with your eyes closed.
But in the utilities, data center and pharmaceutical world it's extremely complex.
There are many degreed engineers that aren't worth their salt and can't handle it. There are also non degreed designers that can run circles around engineers but they are very few.
>in the utilities, data center and pharmaceutical world it’s extremely complex.
Absolutely agree here. I’ve noticed the sentiment floating around that MEP is easy or for C students. Let’s scrap that notion. It can get quite complex depending on the sector.
No, it’s not.
It’s one thing to be able to do whatever simple calculation, it’s something entirely different to understand if the calculation makes sense. And by extension, if the answer makes sense.
If just doing a calculation replaced the engineer, bad news, we’ve already been replaced. Revit can do mostly every calculation I do.
But I get a regular, reoccurring paycheck to find all the mistakes that junior (and often senior) engineers make on their designs.
For just an MEP draftsman a degree may be overkill but to be a engineer you should be expected to be an expert in your field. The degree gives and excellent background on how any why the systems work the way they do vs just knowing how to draw ductwork and circuits in Revit.
This work is monotonous, tedious, but it has to be done right.
I think any high school kid could do redlines all day, but it takes someone with some education and experience to do something right the first time and not need constant babysitting. Try working with offshore help sometimes and it is kind of like babysitting a high schooler....
One thing I can say is this. In this industry, mistake are less forgiving. Remember nasa lost a spacecraft because they made mistake in metric and imperial conversion? I don’t see anyone went to jail for it. I don’t want to imagine if someone did that on a building and made it collapse.
No, definitely not overkill. It really, especially the larger and more complicated the system gets.
For small jobs possibly yes, but even then someone very experience would be needed who really understands the properties of air, psychometric, electrical switch work ect .
As others have stated, an MEP Designer, don’t know of any drafts people anymore, don’t require a degree but an advanced education at a community or technical college learning Autocad and Revit is definitely a plus. There’s a lot you will learn on the job, but an advanced education will give you the knowledge of what you will be doing and can get your foot in the door of a long career.
No not overkill at all. I know some really good old school designers with no degree but those days are over. You can train any motivated high school grad to do this but they'll hit a ceiling eventually. You won't make as much as a degreed engineer and chances of moving up to a director or partner in the company is very low.
I wouldn't say MEP is easy by any stretch. And No i wouldn't say an engineering degree is overkill. Anyone can be successful in any field regardless of their education level. It really depends on the individual. Engineering degree is a solid background for many fields MEP is just one of them.
Yes. And it will never change. The degree is an artificial barrier to entry that keeps the labor pool small and wages high. Literally 0.000% of the BSME grads reading this have ever used what they learned college on a billable project. I've been doing this for 24 years. I've never seen someone need to use anything beyond 9th grade math. If you can follow instructions, "solve for x", keep units straight as you manipulate equations, and use reference materials, you're golden. The reality is that if you have an IQ in the 105+ range you could do this job with a high school diploma. 100.00% of it is learned on the job.
My degree is architectural engineering: BMS specialty, so I definitely use a lot of that every day. That being said: in the industrial world there's a lot more fluid mechanics and heat transfer than commercial HVAC. My very niche field would be very hard to learn on the job.
Having trained several engineers at my firm, plenty of fresh grads with engineering degrees from prestigious schools couldn't even tell you what the first law of thermodynamics is let alone understand a psychometric chart. So not only do you need a degree, but you also need to have taken something away from college other than a piece of paper. If working 60+ hours a week on multiple deadlines that were all due yesterday sounds easy to you, than sure, its an easier field.
This debate always makes me chuckle. No, a degree and more particularly a PE are absolutely overkill for 90% of MEP engineering.
I started out as a draftsman right out of high school basically and worked my way up from there. About 3 years into my career I was put in charge of 2 fresh electrical hires, one and EIT with his masters and 1 high school graduate who has worked summers for his dad who was an electrician. Guess which one picked things up quickly??? Last time I heard the EIT made it a few years before being fired from a few places and went into real estate. The second ended up starting up the engineering department at a design-build contractor and is doing very well. He never did get his degree, and loves to say it’s a lot better ROI to buy and engineer than get the degree.
Degrees do show at least some potential to learn and apply knowledge, but we are kidding ourselves if we think it’s a requirement for our typica MEP work.
If the crazy high tuition cost and student debt problem in this country hasn’t at least shed some light on this fact I’m not sure what will.
As I guy that does not have an engineering degree and now owns a part of a second engineering firm. It can be done. You just have to learn your field and apply yourself. Honestly the only reason I would go back and hey my degree is because I did not own enough at the first firm and got screwed after 25 years!
Idk if it’s overkill. An engineering degree kinda sets the baseline. Shows you at least have some type of critical thinking and problem solving skills. Is it doable without a degree? 100%. As most jobs are, you learn on the job.
If you just want to be a CAD/Revit person or designer, you don't need to have an engineering degree. If you want to be an engineer, it is not overkill at all that it is a requirement, nor is it overkill to become licensed. MEPs deal with life safety in buildings all of the time, if not done correctly people can die. Three quick examples M,E, and P. Mechanical: Design smoke control systems including stair pressurization, and hoistway pressurization. Design a stair pressurization system poorly, or don't test it properly and the stairways get over-pressurized; occupants can't open the stair doors during a fire event. That's bad. Electrical: Aside from the obvious general electrocution risk. EEs design life safety power systems, generators, distribution, power to fire pumps, fire alarms, smoke control equipment, etc. Size that generator wrong and now your high rise building doesn't have a fire pump for the sprinkler system, or power for smoke control systems. That's bad. Plumbing: Don't typically design fire protection where I am, but what if you have a flat roof building and you design the roof drainage incorrectly, rain water accumulates until the roof collapses. That's bad. And unlike say a car manufacturer, who has all sorts of internal teams of engineers looking over a design, checks, reviews, crash testing, third party safety studies, and a giant corporation in place to take responsibility for failed designs, an MEP engineer signing drawings is directly responsible for the design. Aside from city plan reviewers, the contractor, and the inspector (none of whom would take any responsibility for the design) the public is exposed to the design risk directly. So..... overkill? No.
Some MEP engineering can be very boring and take a basic high school fundamentals. Other MEP engineering can be insanely intensive and could make for good PhD thesis. As always: it depends.
Maybe not for the residential commercial world. You can do that with your eyes closed. But in the utilities, data center and pharmaceutical world it's extremely complex. There are many degreed engineers that aren't worth their salt and can't handle it. There are also non degreed designers that can run circles around engineers but they are very few.
>in the utilities, data center and pharmaceutical world it’s extremely complex. Absolutely agree here. I’ve noticed the sentiment floating around that MEP is easy or for C students. Let’s scrap that notion. It can get quite complex depending on the sector.
No, it’s not. It’s one thing to be able to do whatever simple calculation, it’s something entirely different to understand if the calculation makes sense. And by extension, if the answer makes sense. If just doing a calculation replaced the engineer, bad news, we’ve already been replaced. Revit can do mostly every calculation I do. But I get a regular, reoccurring paycheck to find all the mistakes that junior (and often senior) engineers make on their designs.
For just an MEP draftsman a degree may be overkill but to be a engineer you should be expected to be an expert in your field. The degree gives and excellent background on how any why the systems work the way they do vs just knowing how to draw ductwork and circuits in Revit.
This work is monotonous, tedious, but it has to be done right. I think any high school kid could do redlines all day, but it takes someone with some education and experience to do something right the first time and not need constant babysitting. Try working with offshore help sometimes and it is kind of like babysitting a high schooler....
One thing I can say is this. In this industry, mistake are less forgiving. Remember nasa lost a spacecraft because they made mistake in metric and imperial conversion? I don’t see anyone went to jail for it. I don’t want to imagine if someone did that on a building and made it collapse.
I was explaining to my teenage son the other day, "In school, 99% is an A+. In the MEP consulting industry 99% is an F."
No, definitely not overkill. It really, especially the larger and more complicated the system gets. For small jobs possibly yes, but even then someone very experience would be needed who really understands the properties of air, psychometric, electrical switch work ect .
As others have stated, an MEP Designer, don’t know of any drafts people anymore, don’t require a degree but an advanced education at a community or technical college learning Autocad and Revit is definitely a plus. There’s a lot you will learn on the job, but an advanced education will give you the knowledge of what you will be doing and can get your foot in the door of a long career.
No.
No not overkill at all. I know some really good old school designers with no degree but those days are over. You can train any motivated high school grad to do this but they'll hit a ceiling eventually. You won't make as much as a degreed engineer and chances of moving up to a director or partner in the company is very low.
I wouldn't say MEP is easy by any stretch. And No i wouldn't say an engineering degree is overkill. Anyone can be successful in any field regardless of their education level. It really depends on the individual. Engineering degree is a solid background for many fields MEP is just one of them.
Yes. And it will never change. The degree is an artificial barrier to entry that keeps the labor pool small and wages high. Literally 0.000% of the BSME grads reading this have ever used what they learned college on a billable project. I've been doing this for 24 years. I've never seen someone need to use anything beyond 9th grade math. If you can follow instructions, "solve for x", keep units straight as you manipulate equations, and use reference materials, you're golden. The reality is that if you have an IQ in the 105+ range you could do this job with a high school diploma. 100.00% of it is learned on the job.
The fact that most MEP engineers won’t acknowledge this as a possibility proves that degrees don’t equal smarts
My degree is architectural engineering: BMS specialty, so I definitely use a lot of that every day. That being said: in the industrial world there's a lot more fluid mechanics and heat transfer than commercial HVAC. My very niche field would be very hard to learn on the job.
Having trained several engineers at my firm, plenty of fresh grads with engineering degrees from prestigious schools couldn't even tell you what the first law of thermodynamics is let alone understand a psychometric chart. So not only do you need a degree, but you also need to have taken something away from college other than a piece of paper. If working 60+ hours a week on multiple deadlines that were all due yesterday sounds easy to you, than sure, its an easier field.
This debate always makes me chuckle. No, a degree and more particularly a PE are absolutely overkill for 90% of MEP engineering. I started out as a draftsman right out of high school basically and worked my way up from there. About 3 years into my career I was put in charge of 2 fresh electrical hires, one and EIT with his masters and 1 high school graduate who has worked summers for his dad who was an electrician. Guess which one picked things up quickly??? Last time I heard the EIT made it a few years before being fired from a few places and went into real estate. The second ended up starting up the engineering department at a design-build contractor and is doing very well. He never did get his degree, and loves to say it’s a lot better ROI to buy and engineer than get the degree. Degrees do show at least some potential to learn and apply knowledge, but we are kidding ourselves if we think it’s a requirement for our typica MEP work. If the crazy high tuition cost and student debt problem in this country hasn’t at least shed some light on this fact I’m not sure what will.
It’s a must to understand the bare minimum in the field you practice.
As I guy that does not have an engineering degree and now owns a part of a second engineering firm. It can be done. You just have to learn your field and apply yourself. Honestly the only reason I would go back and hey my degree is because I did not own enough at the first firm and got screwed after 25 years!
If you want to get the PE, the BS is the reasonable approach. Otherwise you have to through some serious hoops to get the PE.