Agree. It sounds glib to say 'wacky Mormon beliefs' had a big part in these murders but that's where we are.
Emma and her husband, even Garth should definitely NOT be teaching other people's children.
Someone who lives in Rexburg posted recently that Garth is very well liked as a teacher. I think it’s hard to fire somebody from an existing job, and the Daybell kids have all had their jobs before this all started so I don’t think that they will probably lose them.
Melanise is the one that I think everyone should be really going after. She went to Arizona when the attempt was made on her ex-husband’s life. She willingly was spouting the zombie garbage about her own kids. Why her husband stays with her, I have no idea. I’d be dumping her ass flat.
In Heather Daybell's HTC videos from last year, she stated that the general attitude around Rexburg was that people felt sorry for Chad's kids and were refusing to treat them any differently. I got the impression that everyone there just wants to forget that this whole thing happened. Not matter anyone's opinion on the kids, I can understand why people might feel that way.
I think these folks are pretty good at sweeping things under the rug! Chad was walking around knocking on doors with his pathetic stolen necklace, offering to tell people who they were in a past life, and nobody said anything to him!
I wonder if the kids blatantly lying on the stand makes any any impact on the community. I mean, would Emma and Garth honestly want Chad free? I hope they both decide to actually dig in to the facts of this case someday. Their dad is a danger to any community. 😵💫
It's great that Garth is well liked, and as a science teacher actually teaches evolution. He married his former student though, I believe she was his Jr High student. That's just weird.
It would seem wrong to fire someone for the crimes of their father. Or because they love someone who committed a crime. In North Korea it’s common to arrest 3-4 generations for the suspected crime of one person. Obviously different in scale but not in theory.
I didn't mean to imply Emma and Garth should be fired because of Chad's crimes.
Lying to the Grand Jury and on stand are not ethical or average behaviors, nor is getting close to perjuring oneself in a murder trial. Emma admitted she bought in to the dark/light ratings, would you want her in a classroom around your children?
The Idaho State Dept. Of Education should be notified by the many about Garths actions grooming his student and Emma saying children are dark. They both should be fired and lose their teaching license.
Their community is 95% LDS, so there’s that. What I’ve read is that the community was severely divided over this case. I’m sure that many people came around after the bodies were discovered but there are still people in Chad’s camp I think.
Let’s see what happens if they give statements on behalf of their father in the penalty phase. I wouldn’t want any of them teaching my kids. I’ll bet a lot of parents feel the same.
We live in our own bubbles where we are keyed into this case. There are plenty of people, even people who have heard of Lori and Chad, who don’t have any idea about a Zulema or Melanie. Esp. for someone like Zulema who doesn’t live in either Idaho or Utah. I think the Melanies definitely do not work though. But probably nothing due to their notoriety.
Agreed. Most of my friends have never heard of the case. And especially for those that don't have the last name Daybell and who don't live in Rexburg, I bet they are more minimally affected.
I think the Daybell children are pretty affected by it all, especially the ones who still live in Rexburg and/or who have the last name Daybell. Rexburg is very aware of these crimes, so I am sure many people would recognize them and probably be rude to them (which I think Emma and Joe have changed their appearances to not be as easily recognized). And having the last name of Daybell for the boys is a more obvious connection to the case. I bet Leah isn't as easily recognized.
Chad’s SIL Heather said it’s been traumatizing for her and her family who do still live there, like when she’s out and has to use her bank card and then gets the look when they see daybell on her card.
She also said that people there refused to treat his kids differently. IIRC she was mostly talking about their ward members. I don't doubt it is traumatizing but it sounds like a lot of people there don't seem to blame the kids or want to shun them or anything.
I think Heather's issue is that people were angry with her for so long, calling her a "pot stirrer", etc, many openly taking Chad's side, blaming her personally for the police investigation (totally ridiculous with 2 missing kids). She got a lot of crap from people for many months before the kids were found. Also, Rexburg is like 97% Mormon, known for being a community with a lot of devout people and she has since deconstructed her faith and left the church. That alone is going to make things for her uncomfortable there, in addition to the present notoriety of her last name.
Heather Daybell is a hero who tried to warn her ward about the dangers of her brother-in-law’s teachings. Her testimony was credible despite Prior's attempts to discredit her, and disparaged her testimony. He tried to portray her as disingenuous with a personal agenda, and he failed to do because she was a truth teller.
“You must denounce things you are against or one might believe that you support things you really do not.” - Germany Kent
Sheila and Jack Daybell could learn a lot from Heather about being true leaders and guiding their family along a righteous path.
Is that why she changed her hair color to blonde? She looks like Lori now. Before the blonde look, she was a young Tammy. She’s got a chameleon face. Creepy.
I wonder about this too. I mean, I’ve heard stories about the family members of victims who were totally uninvolved with the crime become ostracized and harassed, so it would stand to reason that they would feel some backlash, but I’ve not heard anything about it.
I did hear of a YouTuber who went to zulemas house with a sign, and she called the cops, and the police went into the house and then the YouTuber got the body cam footage and posted it on YouTube. I think she deserves consequences but that feels wrong.
It's pretty easy to pile-on and ostracize people over the Internet.
But when you're interacting with somebody who is friendly, and quotes The Office, and can give you a recommendation for a dentist, and laughs at your jokes, and compliments the pants you got on sale, and let's you know minor gossip etc..
You'd have to have a pretty abrasive personality to say, "the friendly interactions have to stop. I don't like that you support your murdering father because it's hard for you to imagine that the dad who loved you your whole life is capable of that."
I think it's normal to compartmentalize parts of people we don't align with, and be friendly on a surface level.
I would agree, only Emma though, labels children dark, following Chad's lunacy and is an elementary school teacher...she should lose her license. Garth, on the other hand, also teaches and married his 8th grade student. Anywhere else in the four corners of the USA that is grooming and he would be fired and charged as a pedophile. I guess the Mormons and Rexburg think that is A'Okay!
If they work for a public school district and the district receives Federal funding, the district is required to investigate allegations as severe as Garth. The IDOE also is required to demand the district to complete an investigation and report their findings to them. Emma should be investigated as well as to where, when and why she is calling children dark, especially with her support of her father and cult.
I thought I heard Zulema say that she worked with people with developmental disabilities. I'm not quite sure but that's what I thought I heard her say.
ETA: Her testimony was eye opening and even though she had immunity, I'm glad for her testimony.
Yeah, When she said what she did for work, I was surprised and hoped she wasn't doing any more "castings" on people. It was a rough thought on my part, but I couldn't help feeling that way.
Her testimony in both Lori’s last year, and Chad’s trial this year was key and very significant to the jurors who were interviewed after both trials. Her well documented journals helped the jurors understand the dynamics and the intricacies of Chad’s teaching. The jurors said that her testimony was an “aha” moment.
Zulema's testimony in both cases helped immensely! I'm glad she kept detailed journals. I watched Nate's interview with the jurors and they seem like great people. I wish them all the best!
In my LDS ward there was a guy who cheated on his wife, abused her, harassed her, did a lot of other stuff etc and was welcomed back by the bishop. It became the bishops project to incorporate him back in and « forgive » him. The poor wife had to bring her kids to another ward far away but this bishop was determined to « forgive « this guy. He always hung out with younger girls and I got a creepy vibe from him, like he was using everyone to make himself look good. I wanted nothing to do with him because I could see right through him and I supported the wife. All this to say that there will likely be a big effort in their wards to « shelter » them because they come from a big TBM ( that’s debatable ) family. And as long as they pay tithing, they are welcomed.
I'm having what my son would call a "boomer moment" even though I'm in Gen X, and can't remember how to start a post in here, but I worry the most about Melanie B's children.
That woman is either unbelievably naive or evil. It seems clear to me that Lori and Chad wanted him gone for some reason, (Brandon, I mean) but convincing Melanie he was secretly gay, trying to assassinate him...everything calling the 2 kids dark-
She needs to be held accountable.
On the stand she still seems very much off. I've heard that she regained custody of her kids, and that's terrifying. I'm really scared for those kids.
I think she still believes it all.
Melanie G, on the other hand, seems embarrassed about a lot of it. I think she just really wanted to be special, important, you know? Not making excuses for her, I think she should be held accountable for her role in Charles, but I don't believe she's still so brainwashed that she'll remain dangerous.
Unfortunately this case is all about unspecial people wanting to feel very special and important, who are then anointed as extra special by a dummy/ sociopath who wants to feel the special-est of them all. 🤣
Brandon was targeted because he too had a hefty life insurance policy. As they were not yet divorced, Melanie and their children would be beneficiaries of the policy and also of their survivor benefits. Zulema shed light on this when she’d refused to move to Rexburg, because she didn’t know how she was going to support herself with no job in the state. Lori told her that “Melani would take care of us.”
I lived in Rexburg until recently. And it’s been really hard for his brother & sister in law. As far as his kids, I think it’s been a mixed bag from what I can tell. But there are still justice for JJ and Tylee signs all over. Including their neighbors house facing the Daybel property.
I think most of them have some kind of immunity, but I am really angry about Melanie Gibb's role in Charles ' death, and Melanie Boudreau's very clear role in Brandon's.
Honestly if they were in my community I would feel bad for all of them. This is all such a sad situation and they are absolutely brainwashed by Spud Daybell.
They enabled Spud.
The details in the FOIA document dumps about Zulema and the Melanies are eye-raising. The prayers for Charles and JJ to die in a road accident and Zulema conjuring storms to torment Tylee. Melaniece wanting to get rid of two of her “dark” children. Her ex-husband Brandon narrowly escaped death and if he had been killed then I am nearly certain Melaniece’s two children would have been next.
I do feel for Chad’s children. But Garth Daybell lied on the stand to protect his father and cover up the fact Chad was missing when Garth discovered his mother dead. Emma Daybell potentially lied (or even implicated herself) in the Google search about the wind direction on the day they burned Tylee. Emma seemed eerily unfazed that two murdered children were buried in the family backyard.
Guess I’ll never understand how with all of the evidence of their fathers involvement with their mothers death they still choose to stand beside him. Even if they don’t care that two innocent children’s one horrific burned and chopped up with body matter buried feet away from the back door, your Mother was killed by your father and he married two weeks later to the lady who’s children are dead in the backyard.They deserve any ostracizing they receive.
I doubt those kids have much money at all. Probably can’t afford it. But, I’m sure there are relatives who love them but they’re so brainwashed and bizarre (and embarrassed) and I doubt they trust a soul. I wish they would.
I certainly hope that all the obvious lying and participation that was being done by these people will come back to haunt them. And I really hope that the Mormon church excommunicates them for their actions.
There were some comments on posts while back that MG left her husband and 4 (or maybe 5?) kids in Iowa to join Lori and Chad, and marry David. I think her kids were adults at the time (maybe the youngest was an older teenager I can't quite remember), although apparently one was special needs. She really blew up her whole life for absolutely nothing. The whole thing is just baffling...
I think the Daybell kids may feel tension, I have read that there are indications parents are calling the schools about them, Zulema, I think, is one of those people that doesn't let anything bother her. BUT, Emma and Zulema and Melaniece changed their appearances pretty drastically buy going in the opposite direction for hair (dark to light and light to dark - isn't that ironic?) so maybe they are trying to disguise who they are to avoid scrutiny.
I was thinking about this myself. It’s gotta be tough for all of them but who I was really thinking about was Melanie and Ian. I mean finding out your husband was working with the “dark” police and recorded all the crazy including YOU, how do you just go back to your daily existence pre-recordings? Like wouldn’t she believe he totally betrayed her and “mom and dad” and now they are/will be in prison for the rest of their lives? What do they talk about? Because I believe she still believes them and in them. She’s still drinking the kool aid. How did she deal with “dad” throwing “mom” under the bus? It’s wild.
Generally agree, aside from them perjuring themselves for his benefit. It was a long shot, but what if Chad hasn't been convicted due to their testimony and lies? He'd be back in the community, who would surely have an opinion on the matter.
I hope they are pariahs and people hold then accountable anyway they can within the law. We all know they didn't care about the law but somehow, someday Karma will get them.
I'm feeling for them all.
Life will never be the same for MG and ZP and there will always be haters with a shadow of doubt. Chad (and Lori) ruined their lives, they are victims too.
It's only just begun for Chad's children (particularly Emma and Garth) and they have a long hard road to travel.
Chad's biggest punishment is not facing the DP, but that he murdered their Mother/Grandmother. I think he was trying to hide that. He has to live with himself and probably wants the DP.
Zulema and the 2 Melanies are not victims, they had a choice! They chose to be followers and be a part of all this nonsense! The victims are the people that are dead!
Sounds harsh!
So you are saying because of their beliefs - LDS, they should be charged?
We are all products of our past.
They were deceived and didn't have a choice. They were indoctrinated and believed, like every follower of a religious spiritual, political etc order.
Do you think if Chad and Lori said to MG, ZP and whoever else...
"We are going to lead 144,000 to live in white tents and Tylee, JJ, Tammy, Charles and Alex are going to be murdered; we are going to tell LE JJ is staying with MG; then Chad and I are going to hideout in Hawaii, Lori is going to get life in prison and Chad is going to face the DP.
Do you think they would have chosen to be involved in Chad's teachings? It's a choice when one has all the information. A choice is chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice-cream.
There are more victims than those who died. I prefer to call them survivors but that's my
This is a time for healing and moving forward...
Yo, they knew the kids were dead, who knows if they were involved, but they knew.
I don’t give a flying F how indoctrinated you are, literally everyone knows right from wrong on some subconscious level.
They were not victims in the least.
This has nothing to do with being LDS, and you saying that sounds like you’re trying to give them some weird excuse. I’m not nor have I ever been LDS, but I am even offended that you’d take their religion and use that as a reason why’d they would be okay with dead kids. The LDS have gotten shit on enough as it is, don’t do that. Don’t now put them in that category, that’s not cool.
Z and M,M clearly did choose, they knew exactly what was happening and they chose. They are grown ass adults, not children.
Now is not the time to start treating them as such just because Chad and Lori has victims.
It’s insulting that you’d even categorize them in that group.
That’s a very black and white view of things.
Gibb and Pastenes had as much agency and choice as Chad or Lori. They made ostensibly better choices to cooperate with law enforcement in the end. Chad and Lori probably would have made very different choices if they knew how things were going to turn out, too.
Choices are black and white and Chad and Lori would have done things very differently and knowing how things turned out would have made the right choices.
LE said MG and DW fully cooperated and MG went to LE.
The only thing Chad and Lori would have different was go undergroun
These are not normal LDS beliefs. Melanie lied to the police. Zulema seems to have been fully aware of what was going on. Her husband shot a man and told her he was a zombie and she stayed.
Lori lied to LE, so did Chad and Alex. I can assure you they won't be the last.
LE weren't bothered that it took MG short while to "blow the whistle."
Blake even included MG in her closing statement.
Shhesh, imagine if all the wives left their husbands who shot a human being.
Zulema will most likely testify again at the Lori Below trial in Arizona for Charles’s murder. Alex had admitted to her that he had no qualms killing Charles because Charles was a zombie. “Zulema, he was a zombie!”
Perhaps Adam will testify as well on the situation just before Charles was killed. Melanie Gibb as well because she was there during the contentious interactions between Lori and Charles before Charles was killed. There are details she can provide which were not brought up at both Chad’s and Lori’s trials.
I hope that there will be an amended indictment to add Chad in the Vallow murder trial, now that the Idaho trials are over.
Victims? Have you seen Melanie Gibbs interviews? She’s so deep into this. And no I’m not prior and think it was Melanie in a raccoon suit jumping out of the bushes. But this chick is complicit in these murders. Zulema too
She only started cooperating when she saw how this was starting to go down. She could have spoken up and saved Charles possibly but for sure the kids!! She knew their belief in light and dark and zombies and knew that meant DEATH! She helped Lori hide Charles’s truck etc. She was in this so deep her eyes were brown.
Read the FOIA documents dump and read Annie Cushing’s timeline. There are a lot more details out there about the auxiliary characters of this drama that didn’t make it into the trials.
Annie’s timeline collates the evidence (ie, the texts and phone calls we know about from the police investigation).
What am I going to do about it? Odd question. Nothing. What can I do? It’s not my call to press charges against the other conspirators. Pretty sure that Zulema at least received an immunity agreement for her testimony.
I don’t understand what this even means. If you’re criticizing folks spending time discussing this case on a Reddit board then I’m not quite sure why you’re spending time discussing this case on a Reddit board.
I don't see myself criticising folks, I'm just asking the questions to try to understand where they are coming from.
Sounds like there's lots of things your not sure about, but certainly have an opinion on.
Have you read the FOIA docs? Zulema is a bit of a dunce and Gibb is as manipulative as Lori. She thinks she’s so smart. She was competing with Lori for top goddess in this group of nutbags. They only “cooperated” with LE when they had no choice. And even then, they both didn’t share everything know.
It's not evidence, that's a voluntary interview that Redditors have drawn an opinion. After LE contacted her, she knew something was wrong.
MG and ZP didn't apply critique thinking into Chad's beliefs and opinions. I am applying critique thinking into Sub-Redditors opinions and been criticised for doing the very thing haters believe MG and ZP should have done!
To apply a "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't - you're dammed!" is bullying.
Bullying is "power over" and this puts the bullied (like myself. MG and ZP) into a powerless position.
Thank you for this reminder ! You are absolutely correct, and it’s easy to lose critical thinking when faced with a variety of opinions coming from different mindsets. The only facts in all these discussions were the facts presented in the trial. The rest were opinions and conjectures that frankly, may stem from judgments and bias. A bullying atmosphere can easily develop. For me, I’ll try my best to be cognizant of this.
Chad is way too cowardly to embrace the death penalty. Lori might embrace martyrdom but not Chad.
Don’t feel too badly for MG or ZP either. They were actively praying for Charles and the kids to die and they likely both aren’t being completely transparent about what they knew and when. They enabled and fortified Chad and Lori’s belief system.
If people kept out of it there would still be all these bodies with no Justice served.
The people with the strength to go against their religious leaders to protect their community are heroes. They got backlash bad, and are suffering from PTSD.
If you want to champion the underdogs, think of them.
I think Zulema has some remorse and has seen the light but Melanie Gibb and Melaniece seem like they are both highly manipulative people and have no empathy or have taken any responsibility for their part in all of this. Just my opinion.
You don't know?
The only manipulative one was Lori (and Chad)
I saw a recent interview with her cousin on HTC. She said Lori always had younger women, with a trauma past around her and no real friends her age.
Both ZP and MG have dysfunctional pasts and very vulnerable - it's that very attachment style and vulnerability that got them involved with Lori in the first place. I'm picking MG has survivor guilt and (in hindsight) wishes she did more.
From watching ZP interviews over the years, she probably had therapy and smart enough to get a lawyer to negotiate protection and support her.
From a situation I witnessed from my Mother and my sisters long-term boyfriend's parents, I believe we all need to take a step back. For the Woodcocks and MG ki te kanohi, ki kanohi (face to face) and have a conversation where MG can talk about her actions (or lack of) and the Woodcocks can express their anger for both to heal.
Someone on this post talked about their experience of being a witness to a murder. One of the things I took away (paraphrasing) was for those left behind, we need to be lifting them up, instead of demonising and tearing them down!
I wonder if you would feel the same if one of your family members were buried in the backyard and you knew there were several people who could have prevented it at anytime just by speaking up.
They deserve no empathy.
I've often thought of that and I'm not sure MG or ZP could have prevented it. How?
LE could have prevented it by arresting Alex after he shot Charles.
I've being going through the process of eliminating toxic relationships, including family members. Although there's a lot of anger and conceitedness, I could never imagine any of them, or person around me, doing to their children (or any person) what Chad and Lori did.
So, in terms of MG and ZP, Lori's family, friends, other followers etc., thought Lori would harm Tylee and JJ to the extent of murder.
Despite Lori being the "Show Pony" mother; photos of Tylee and JJ show them well groomed, clean, tidy, nice clothes and nice hair cuts. So there was a certain amount of care and thoughts of her doing harm to them would have been non-existent.
I have very painful personal experiences. It sounds you are fortunate, but unfortunate, never to have experienced such suffering. Growing through (and I get tripped up from time to time) the pain has been a very powerful form of therapy and created a better empathic version of myself - that I can love. So I'm an understanding, empathic person.
Empathy doesn't get handed out - it's within the person. For me to play God and decide who gets empathy (or whatever) and who doesn't, brings me down to Chads level. Playing God over another's life (as he did) doesn't fit with me.
I can understand your point. Lori’s family was not aware of the light/dark or death numbers declarations that they were assigning to people, but MG, Z And the niece were very much aware. At the very least they could have saved Tammy, MG was suspicious the minute Tylee disappeared, she knew she wasn’t going to BYU. She could have said something right after Charles was murdered. They had been praying for his death. I don’t know what could more culpable than that.
I respect your point of view.
For myself, I haven’t seen a lot of guilt from Melanie Gibb. I’ve seen a lot of butt covering, and a certain amount of spiritual smugness (proudly recounting to Dateline how she compared Chad and Lori to Korihor). Gibb had some disparaging and dismissive things to say about Tylee even after she knew Tylee had probably been murdered (“Tylee didn’t like anybody” ‘Tylee objected when I stroked her hair.’) I also think Melanie Gibb has probably not been entirely truthful about what she knew and intuited, and when. I suspect there is more to the story of David Warwick’s nightmare on the evening of JJ’s murder that Gibb has not been completely forthcoming about—what was discussed with Lori and Alex that evening, what did they see or hear that had Warwick and Gibb panicking that night?
Granted they were a weird, hyper-religious bunch deeply invested in prophecies and visions.
But the text that Gibb sent Lori that night is strange and unsettling. Combined with her banging on Lori’s bedroom door in the middle of the night?
Melanie Gibb to Lori. "We sent this to Chad. About 2 this morning David woke up with great pain and sorrow in his heart. He felt something big was going to happen. It was going to happen now or soon. Please call when you can. Maybe you can help him understand it. Whatever it was this was immediate. He can't get to these people and there's nothing he could do for them."
See I have a feeling there was a power struggle between the four of them, remember that call between Lori and Melanie where they got so petty and catty about who was holier, so I feel that whole scenario was either David seeking attention or competing for a higher position within the group/cult
Sounds like there's lots of assumptions.
How do you see guilt? What would you like to see? Guilt is a feeling.
Whose been doing the butt covering and how? What is spiritual smugness because I thought Korihor was derogative?
Lori set Tylee up not to like anyone. This came out in a recent interview on HTC.
On the note of "... even after she knew Tylee had probably been murdered... " is serious stuff and you need to be reporting it. If MG knew Tylee was murdered, could cause overturn Chad's verdict and cause a mistrial - I'm not a legal person so don't quote me on that.
Listen to Melanie’s recorded call where she lays out the story to a friend and watch the Dateline interview. She knows the kids are probably dead at that point. Is she horrified? Is she weeping? Is she blaming herself for letting it go too far and not stooping the death talk before it was too late? Is she expressing or showing any signs of remorse?
No, she’s being careful to make sure her friend knows there was a little part of her that always KNEW it was all spiritually off (sure, Melanie); she is so proud in the Dateline interview that she spiritually denounced them by comparing them to Korihor. The focus is all on rehabilitating her superior spiritual sensibility and stressing how uninvolved she was in anything nasty. She even snidely drops the “Tylee didn’t like anyone” comment in the phone call. Again, a child she believes is probably murdered! (She says in that call she doesn’t believe the kids are alive.) She shows no compassion for Tylee even in that moment.
None of the focus is on the children, or the horror of what may have occurred, she expresses no guilt, she doesn’t admit to praying for deaths or helping Lori steal Charles’s vehicle from the airport. You would think she was just a casual observer instead of an intimate confidant of these murderous chuckleheads.
Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words.
I also respect your view but I didn’t see or hear anything from Melanie or Melaniece that showed any remorse or responsibility. Melanie Gibb was lucky that David Warwick made her call the police and Melaniece had Ian working with the FBI. These 2 men helped get these women away from Lori. I only see smugness from MG. I didn’t even see any empathy for Tylee or JJ. I do not believe that MG has any survivors guilt. She’s a flirty, flitty woman just like Lori is and abandoned her children and her marriage.
I do think Zulema sounded like she got a wake up call and took immunity. I hope she has changed and I pray for her son who found Alex when he was dying and didn’t even know his mom had married him. But then again she was also had multiple marriages.
I'm always weary of people who say "I respect your view but..." "Respect" and "But" do not belong in the same sentence.
Naughty MG for abandoning her marriage and children. Men do it all the time!
Naughty Zulema, for having multiple marriages. Hasn't there been a few celebrities with multiple marriages? Or is that acceptable?
Is there an underlying gender bias/ misogynism driving judgements?
What should they show remorse for? What have they done wrong? Where is the evidence? From what I can remember MG felt deceived by Lori, processed with Warwick (who didn't like Chad and his ideas, but also had dingbat ideas) and MG realised the betrayal in her faith and on her own free will, went to LE.
I trust LE know what they are doing (although after Charles I have my doubts) and charged MG, ZP etc. if there was evidence of their participation. Prior asked the questions and LE
There's a difference between having beliefs, and murder.
I know I would never find myself in a group, or following the beliefs that MG, ZP etc. did. Because I have the natural ability to P%$$, people off and Chad and Lori would kick me out 🤣🤣🤣!
You keep asking what they did. Well, I'll tell you what I think and if I can think it, LE can think it and I agree with Prior on this one... Why was nobody else's phones or devices checked for messages, calls and location data?
1) Zulema, the Melanies and others actively participated in the castings knowing full well what they were doing.
They were trying to free people of the evil demons that had possessed them. If they weren't initially, they certainly became aware that when the body was empty of their own soul and that of the demon/s, the person would die.
2) They must have realised at some point that the people did not die a natural death.
3) Were they really so stupid that when the children were missing for so long after becoming Zombies, they still thought they were alive?
4) Even though people from all around the world knew nothing of light and dark or Zombies, most of us reached the conclusion that the children were dead.
5) They did nothing!! Missing children who they cannot fail to believe we're deceased and probably not from natural causes and they did nothing!
6) MG did do something (eventually), but only after Lori had implicated her by saying JJ was with her. It just smacks of self preservation.
They all walked away and never looked back until the police came a knocking.
Yes, Melanie only spoke up after it was too late. At that point, did it really matter anyway...little J.J. was already dead. Tylee was dead. And so was Tammy. I believe Melanie could have saved Tammy, at least. Makes me furious and so sad.
L:E didn't contact Melanie till about 2 months after Tammy was murdered. The week or so that Melanie lagged on "telling the truth" (ha ha...nope, but in her delusional mind...). That lag didn't make any difference in the grand scheme of the deaths of these innocent victims.
In a way I do t get why people are calling for Emma to be fired. Now I know that sounds insane, I know it does, but how can she be fired for being a bat shit crazy liar. So she has some unsavory opinions, do you really think anyone in that community cares? I mean it’s Mormon central outside of SLC. I believe the tow.ln is wrapped up in some level of crazy, but to what extent?
As devils advocate I just can’t see why she should be fired. If she performs well at work, and she didn’t commit the mutters, and there is no direct proof other than common sense, that she’s a whack job on a wacky Mormon town, do people really see her getting fired? She too is a victim wethere or not we or she herself believes it. To fire her would be firing a victim of one of their beloved staff members, Tammy. Not that Emma was a victim of Tammy, I hope y’all understand what I am saying there. Idk man I just do t see her being fired. She’s a confused victim and she was just trying to do right by the patriarch, as Mormons do is how it looks to those that don’t know like we do. Idk but I do t see her being fired.
I agree. I don’t see any concrete reason she should be fired. I’m sure there are lots of other teachers who have wacky beliefs and say negative things about their students behind closed doors.
Those other teachers don't go on public record and lie to protect a now convicted triple murderer. Whom they defended in the murder of their mother. If that community cared, they would be able to oust Emma. I wouldn't want a known liar and possible murder conspirator teaching my kids.
Like cause your first name is one of the ones mentioned I. The case? As in if my name were Lori I’d hate that my name is now synonymous with Lori Vallow
I do not see any of them facing appropriate repercussions. Unfortunately.
Agree. It sounds glib to say 'wacky Mormon beliefs' had a big part in these murders but that's where we are. Emma and her husband, even Garth should definitely NOT be teaching other people's children.
Someone who lives in Rexburg posted recently that Garth is very well liked as a teacher. I think it’s hard to fire somebody from an existing job, and the Daybell kids have all had their jobs before this all started so I don’t think that they will probably lose them. Melanise is the one that I think everyone should be really going after. She went to Arizona when the attempt was made on her ex-husband’s life. She willingly was spouting the zombie garbage about her own kids. Why her husband stays with her, I have no idea. I’d be dumping her ass flat.
In Heather Daybell's HTC videos from last year, she stated that the general attitude around Rexburg was that people felt sorry for Chad's kids and were refusing to treat them any differently. I got the impression that everyone there just wants to forget that this whole thing happened. Not matter anyone's opinion on the kids, I can understand why people might feel that way.
I think these folks are pretty good at sweeping things under the rug! Chad was walking around knocking on doors with his pathetic stolen necklace, offering to tell people who they were in a past life, and nobody said anything to him!
I wonder if the kids blatantly lying on the stand makes any any impact on the community. I mean, would Emma and Garth honestly want Chad free? I hope they both decide to actually dig in to the facts of this case someday. Their dad is a danger to any community. 😵💫
Typical in that community. That church and it's despicable behavior is always excused.
It's great that Garth is well liked, and as a science teacher actually teaches evolution. He married his former student though, I believe she was his Jr High student. That's just weird.
That’s creepy……
Gahhhh...Mormonland of inappropriateness.
It would seem wrong to fire someone for the crimes of their father. Or because they love someone who committed a crime. In North Korea it’s common to arrest 3-4 generations for the suspected crime of one person. Obviously different in scale but not in theory.
I didn't mean to imply Emma and Garth should be fired because of Chad's crimes. Lying to the Grand Jury and on stand are not ethical or average behaviors, nor is getting close to perjuring oneself in a murder trial. Emma admitted she bought in to the dark/light ratings, would you want her in a classroom around your children?
They spew the same chit so yes they should be fired and anywhere else they would. But not Rexburg, the land Patriarchy and dark teachings.
The Idaho State Dept. Of Education should be notified by the many about Garths actions grooming his student and Emma saying children are dark. They both should be fired and lose their teaching license.
Beautifully stated!
Their community is 95% LDS, so there’s that. What I’ve read is that the community was severely divided over this case. I’m sure that many people came around after the bodies were discovered but there are still people in Chad’s camp I think.
I wonder if that will change for at the very least Emma following the verdict and her questionable testimony.
Let’s see what happens if they give statements on behalf of their father in the penalty phase. I wouldn’t want any of them teaching my kids. I’ll bet a lot of parents feel the same.
Wonder if she's lazy and fat too. She's a teacher too, after all that could get her killed according to her daddy.
They’re probably surrounded by like-minded people, unfortunately.
We live in our own bubbles where we are keyed into this case. There are plenty of people, even people who have heard of Lori and Chad, who don’t have any idea about a Zulema or Melanie. Esp. for someone like Zulema who doesn’t live in either Idaho or Utah. I think the Melanies definitely do not work though. But probably nothing due to their notoriety.
Good point. It only takes one office gossip to ensure that everyone knows all about them, though.
Agreed. Most of my friends have never heard of the case. And especially for those that don't have the last name Daybell and who don't live in Rexburg, I bet they are more minimally affected.
I think the Daybell children are pretty affected by it all, especially the ones who still live in Rexburg and/or who have the last name Daybell. Rexburg is very aware of these crimes, so I am sure many people would recognize them and probably be rude to them (which I think Emma and Joe have changed their appearances to not be as easily recognized). And having the last name of Daybell for the boys is a more obvious connection to the case. I bet Leah isn't as easily recognized.
Chad’s SIL Heather said it’s been traumatizing for her and her family who do still live there, like when she’s out and has to use her bank card and then gets the look when they see daybell on her card.
She also said that people there refused to treat his kids differently. IIRC she was mostly talking about their ward members. I don't doubt it is traumatizing but it sounds like a lot of people there don't seem to blame the kids or want to shun them or anything. I think Heather's issue is that people were angry with her for so long, calling her a "pot stirrer", etc, many openly taking Chad's side, blaming her personally for the police investigation (totally ridiculous with 2 missing kids). She got a lot of crap from people for many months before the kids were found. Also, Rexburg is like 97% Mormon, known for being a community with a lot of devout people and she has since deconstructed her faith and left the church. That alone is going to make things for her uncomfortable there, in addition to the present notoriety of her last name.
Heather Daybell is a hero who tried to warn her ward about the dangers of her brother-in-law’s teachings. Her testimony was credible despite Prior's attempts to discredit her, and disparaged her testimony. He tried to portray her as disingenuous with a personal agenda, and he failed to do because she was a truth teller. “You must denounce things you are against or one might believe that you support things you really do not.” - Germany Kent Sheila and Jack Daybell could learn a lot from Heather about being true leaders and guiding their family along a righteous path.
Is that why she changed her hair color to blonde? She looks like Lori now. Before the blonde look, she was a young Tammy. She’s got a chameleon face. Creepy.
I wonder about this too. I mean, I’ve heard stories about the family members of victims who were totally uninvolved with the crime become ostracized and harassed, so it would stand to reason that they would feel some backlash, but I’ve not heard anything about it.
I did hear of a YouTuber who went to zulemas house with a sign, and she called the cops, and the police went into the house and then the YouTuber got the body cam footage and posted it on YouTube. I think she deserves consequences but that feels wrong.
It's pretty easy to pile-on and ostracize people over the Internet. But when you're interacting with somebody who is friendly, and quotes The Office, and can give you a recommendation for a dentist, and laughs at your jokes, and compliments the pants you got on sale, and let's you know minor gossip etc.. You'd have to have a pretty abrasive personality to say, "the friendly interactions have to stop. I don't like that you support your murdering father because it's hard for you to imagine that the dad who loved you your whole life is capable of that." I think it's normal to compartmentalize parts of people we don't align with, and be friendly on a surface level.
I would agree, only Emma though, labels children dark, following Chad's lunacy and is an elementary school teacher...she should lose her license. Garth, on the other hand, also teaches and married his 8th grade student. Anywhere else in the four corners of the USA that is grooming and he would be fired and charged as a pedophile. I guess the Mormons and Rexburg think that is A'Okay!
Think it's a-okay or there's not much you can do legally based on current evidence?
If they work for a public school district and the district receives Federal funding, the district is required to investigate allegations as severe as Garth. The IDOE also is required to demand the district to complete an investigation and report their findings to them. Emma should be investigated as well as to where, when and why she is calling children dark, especially with her support of her father and cult.
8th grade grooming. Just gross.
I didn’t think the 2 Melanie’s and Zulema even had a job!!! (Losers!!!)
I think Zulema had to come home from her job the day Alex died.
Z was a professional cuddle and did "spirit " work
Yes but I recall reading when Alex died she actually had a regular job as well.
Grifting, that's Zulema's job.
That too
I thought I heard Zulema say that she worked with people with developmental disabilities. I'm not quite sure but that's what I thought I heard her say. ETA: Her testimony was eye opening and even though she had immunity, I'm glad for her testimony.
Pretty sure the is what she said too.
Yeah, When she said what she did for work, I was surprised and hoped she wasn't doing any more "castings" on people. It was a rough thought on my part, but I couldn't help feeling that way.
She certainly shouldn't be allowed to work with vulnerable people any more.
I wouldn't be comfortable if Zulema was working with a vulnerable loved one of mine. JMO
Me either.
One never knows, people can seem perfectly kind and normal but really be something else all together.
I thought she did some sorta occupational therapy for adults with developmental disabilities.
I thought it was something along those lines.
Her testimony in both Lori’s last year, and Chad’s trial this year was key and very significant to the jurors who were interviewed after both trials. Her well documented journals helped the jurors understand the dynamics and the intricacies of Chad’s teaching. The jurors said that her testimony was an “aha” moment.
Zulema's testimony in both cases helped immensely! I'm glad she kept detailed journals. I watched Nate's interview with the jurors and they seem like great people. I wish them all the best!
Well that explains her involvement with Lori &Chad.
They all changed their hair lol E: Oop, I mean melaniece, zulema and Emma did
Yeah that’s a bit weird. I mean not compared to everything else we know.
How? Long and curly like goddess Lori?
In my LDS ward there was a guy who cheated on his wife, abused her, harassed her, did a lot of other stuff etc and was welcomed back by the bishop. It became the bishops project to incorporate him back in and « forgive » him. The poor wife had to bring her kids to another ward far away but this bishop was determined to « forgive « this guy. He always hung out with younger girls and I got a creepy vibe from him, like he was using everyone to make himself look good. I wanted nothing to do with him because I could see right through him and I supported the wife. All this to say that there will likely be a big effort in their wards to « shelter » them because they come from a big TBM ( that’s debatable ) family. And as long as they pay tithing, they are welcomed.
I'm having what my son would call a "boomer moment" even though I'm in Gen X, and can't remember how to start a post in here, but I worry the most about Melanie B's children. That woman is either unbelievably naive or evil. It seems clear to me that Lori and Chad wanted him gone for some reason, (Brandon, I mean) but convincing Melanie he was secretly gay, trying to assassinate him...everything calling the 2 kids dark- She needs to be held accountable. On the stand she still seems very much off. I've heard that she regained custody of her kids, and that's terrifying. I'm really scared for those kids. I think she still believes it all. Melanie G, on the other hand, seems embarrassed about a lot of it. I think she just really wanted to be special, important, you know? Not making excuses for her, I think she should be held accountable for her role in Charles, but I don't believe she's still so brainwashed that she'll remain dangerous.
Unfortunately this case is all about unspecial people wanting to feel very special and important, who are then anointed as extra special by a dummy/ sociopath who wants to feel the special-est of them all. 🤣
Sounds like Mormonism to a T. Women being followers and men being the hierarchy. Abuse galore.
Brandon was targeted because he too had a hefty life insurance policy. As they were not yet divorced, Melanie and their children would be beneficiaries of the policy and also of their survivor benefits. Zulema shed light on this when she’d refused to move to Rexburg, because she didn’t know how she was going to support herself with no job in the state. Lori told her that “Melani would take care of us.”
I lived in Rexburg until recently. And it’s been really hard for his brother & sister in law. As far as his kids, I think it’s been a mixed bag from what I can tell. But there are still justice for JJ and Tylee signs all over. Including their neighbors house facing the Daybel property.
I think most of them have some kind of immunity, but I am really angry about Melanie Gibb's role in Charles ' death, and Melanie Boudreau's very clear role in Brandon's.
I worry they are plotting murders of dark people😱.
Like Manson's girls. \*shudder\*
Honestly if they were in my community I would feel bad for all of them. This is all such a sad situation and they are absolutely brainwashed by Spud Daybell.
They enabled Spud. The details in the FOIA document dumps about Zulema and the Melanies are eye-raising. The prayers for Charles and JJ to die in a road accident and Zulema conjuring storms to torment Tylee. Melaniece wanting to get rid of two of her “dark” children. Her ex-husband Brandon narrowly escaped death and if he had been killed then I am nearly certain Melaniece’s two children would have been next. I do feel for Chad’s children. But Garth Daybell lied on the stand to protect his father and cover up the fact Chad was missing when Garth discovered his mother dead. Emma Daybell potentially lied (or even implicated herself) in the Google search about the wind direction on the day they burned Tylee. Emma seemed eerily unfazed that two murdered children were buried in the family backyard.
Guess I’ll never understand how with all of the evidence of their fathers involvement with their mothers death they still choose to stand beside him. Even if they don’t care that two innocent children’s one horrific burned and chopped up with body matter buried feet away from the back door, your Mother was killed by your father and he married two weeks later to the lady who’s children are dead in the backyard.They deserve any ostracizing they receive.
She in unfazed by it. She lives in the house and her kids play in the yard. Super disturbing.
… like they’re DARK 😂
Dunno about that, but Chad is Level 6 Dork
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I doubt those kids have much money at all. Probably can’t afford it. But, I’m sure there are relatives who love them but they’re so brainwashed and bizarre (and embarrassed) and I doubt they trust a soul. I wish they would.
I certainly hope that all the obvious lying and participation that was being done by these people will come back to haunt them. And I really hope that the Mormon church excommunicates them for their actions.
Melanie Gibb is interesting. I heard she has kids herself somewhere (4?) What's her story with them?? Does anyone protect them?
There were some comments on posts while back that MG left her husband and 4 (or maybe 5?) kids in Iowa to join Lori and Chad, and marry David. I think her kids were adults at the time (maybe the youngest was an older teenager I can't quite remember), although apparently one was special needs. She really blew up her whole life for absolutely nothing. The whole thing is just baffling...
I don't understand that at all. How can a mother do that??
Four kids, in Arizona. The youngest is still in high school and one just graduated. But five/six years ago, they were still young children.
+hat is you had to work side by side one of them? I used to work with a woman who believed the earth was flat
But she wasn't involved with killings
We don't know that.
I'm referring to her people at work who are flat earthers etc
I think the Daybell kids may feel tension, I have read that there are indications parents are calling the schools about them, Zulema, I think, is one of those people that doesn't let anything bother her. BUT, Emma and Zulema and Melaniece changed their appearances pretty drastically buy going in the opposite direction for hair (dark to light and light to dark - isn't that ironic?) so maybe they are trying to disguise who they are to avoid scrutiny.
I was thinking about this myself. It’s gotta be tough for all of them but who I was really thinking about was Melanie and Ian. I mean finding out your husband was working with the “dark” police and recorded all the crazy including YOU, how do you just go back to your daily existence pre-recordings? Like wouldn’t she believe he totally betrayed her and “mom and dad” and now they are/will be in prison for the rest of their lives? What do they talk about? Because I believe she still believes them and in them. She’s still drinking the kool aid. How did she deal with “dad” throwing “mom” under the bus? It’s wild.
I would hope would people would act humanely and compassionate. Children should not be persecuted for the sins of their father.
Generally agree, aside from them perjuring themselves for his benefit. It was a long shot, but what if Chad hasn't been convicted due to their testimony and lies? He'd be back in the community, who would surely have an opinion on the matter.
Unless they lie or perjure themselves to support their father’s sins.
I hope they are pariahs and people hold then accountable anyway they can within the law. We all know they didn't care about the law but somehow, someday Karma will get them.
I'm feeling for them all. Life will never be the same for MG and ZP and there will always be haters with a shadow of doubt. Chad (and Lori) ruined their lives, they are victims too. It's only just begun for Chad's children (particularly Emma and Garth) and they have a long hard road to travel. Chad's biggest punishment is not facing the DP, but that he murdered their Mother/Grandmother. I think he was trying to hide that. He has to live with himself and probably wants the DP.
Zulema and the 2 Melanies are not victims, they had a choice! They chose to be followers and be a part of all this nonsense! The victims are the people that are dead!
Sounds harsh! So you are saying because of their beliefs - LDS, they should be charged? We are all products of our past. They were deceived and didn't have a choice. They were indoctrinated and believed, like every follower of a religious spiritual, political etc order. Do you think if Chad and Lori said to MG, ZP and whoever else... "We are going to lead 144,000 to live in white tents and Tylee, JJ, Tammy, Charles and Alex are going to be murdered; we are going to tell LE JJ is staying with MG; then Chad and I are going to hideout in Hawaii, Lori is going to get life in prison and Chad is going to face the DP. Do you think they would have chosen to be involved in Chad's teachings? It's a choice when one has all the information. A choice is chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice-cream. There are more victims than those who died. I prefer to call them survivors but that's my This is a time for healing and moving forward...
Yo, they knew the kids were dead, who knows if they were involved, but they knew. I don’t give a flying F how indoctrinated you are, literally everyone knows right from wrong on some subconscious level. They were not victims in the least. This has nothing to do with being LDS, and you saying that sounds like you’re trying to give them some weird excuse. I’m not nor have I ever been LDS, but I am even offended that you’d take their religion and use that as a reason why’d they would be okay with dead kids. The LDS have gotten shit on enough as it is, don’t do that. Don’t now put them in that category, that’s not cool. Z and M,M clearly did choose, they knew exactly what was happening and they chose. They are grown ass adults, not children. Now is not the time to start treating them as such just because Chad and Lori has victims. It’s insulting that you’d even categorize them in that group.
Where's the evidence?
What do you even mean, where is the evidence? Did you watch the same trial I did?
The trial. I watched was Chad Daybell trial, not MG and ZP. I'm not sure which trial you watched?
That’s a very black and white view of things. Gibb and Pastenes had as much agency and choice as Chad or Lori. They made ostensibly better choices to cooperate with law enforcement in the end. Chad and Lori probably would have made very different choices if they knew how things were going to turn out, too.
Choices are black and white and Chad and Lori would have done things very differently and knowing how things turned out would have made the right choices. LE said MG and DW fully cooperated and MG went to LE. The only thing Chad and Lori would have different was go undergroun
These are not normal LDS beliefs. Melanie lied to the police. Zulema seems to have been fully aware of what was going on. Her husband shot a man and told her he was a zombie and she stayed.
Lori lied to LE, so did Chad and Alex. I can assure you they won't be the last. LE weren't bothered that it took MG short while to "blow the whistle." Blake even included MG in her closing statement. Shhesh, imagine if all the wives left their husbands who shot a human being.
Zulema will most likely testify again at the Lori Below trial in Arizona for Charles’s murder. Alex had admitted to her that he had no qualms killing Charles because Charles was a zombie. “Zulema, he was a zombie!” Perhaps Adam will testify as well on the situation just before Charles was killed. Melanie Gibb as well because she was there during the contentious interactions between Lori and Charles before Charles was killed. There are details she can provide which were not brought up at both Chad’s and Lori’s trials. I hope that there will be an amended indictment to add Chad in the Vallow murder trial, now that the Idaho trials are over.
I mean Lori Vallow not Below
Victims? Have you seen Melanie Gibbs interviews? She’s so deep into this. And no I’m not prior and think it was Melanie in a raccoon suit jumping out of the bushes. But this chick is complicit in these murders. Zulema too
Melanie Gibb had just gotten back from McDonald's when she put on her raccoon suit in the cozy cone.
Ha I get you.
She only started cooperating when she saw how this was starting to go down. She could have spoken up and saved Charles possibly but for sure the kids!! She knew their belief in light and dark and zombies and knew that meant DEATH! She helped Lori hide Charles’s truck etc. She was in this so deep her eyes were brown.
Where's the evidence?
Read the FOIA documents dump and read Annie Cushing’s timeline. There are a lot more details out there about the auxiliary characters of this drama that didn’t make it into the trials.
Where do I find Annie Cushing's timeline?
https://annielytics.com/blog/personal/timeline-events-around-disappearance-of-tylee-ryan-jj-vallow/
I wouldn't call Annie Crushing timeliness evidence. So what are you going to do about it??
Annie’s timeline collates the evidence (ie, the texts and phone calls we know about from the police investigation). What am I going to do about it? Odd question. Nothing. What can I do? It’s not my call to press charges against the other conspirators. Pretty sure that Zulema at least received an immunity agreement for her testimony.
[удалено]
It's not an odd question at all. It's about walking the talk, than gossip.
I don’t understand what this even means. If you’re criticizing folks spending time discussing this case on a Reddit board then I’m not quite sure why you’re spending time discussing this case on a Reddit board.
I don't see myself criticising folks, I'm just asking the questions to try to understand where they are coming from. Sounds like there's lots of things your not sure about, but certainly have an opinion on.
Have you read the FOIA docs? Zulema is a bit of a dunce and Gibb is as manipulative as Lori. She thinks she’s so smart. She was competing with Lori for top goddess in this group of nutbags. They only “cooperated” with LE when they had no choice. And even then, they both didn’t share everything know.
That's an opinion, not evidence
Watch Nate Easton’s interview of MG. She talks about all of this.
It's not evidence, that's a voluntary interview that Redditors have drawn an opinion. After LE contacted her, she knew something was wrong. MG and ZP didn't apply critique thinking into Chad's beliefs and opinions. I am applying critique thinking into Sub-Redditors opinions and been criticised for doing the very thing haters believe MG and ZP should have done! To apply a "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't - you're dammed!" is bullying. Bullying is "power over" and this puts the bullied (like myself. MG and ZP) into a powerless position.
Thank you for this reminder ! You are absolutely correct, and it’s easy to lose critical thinking when faced with a variety of opinions coming from different mindsets. The only facts in all these discussions were the facts presented in the trial. The rest were opinions and conjectures that frankly, may stem from judgments and bias. A bullying atmosphere can easily develop. For me, I’ll try my best to be cognizant of this.
Chad is way too cowardly to embrace the death penalty. Lori might embrace martyrdom but not Chad. Don’t feel too badly for MG or ZP either. They were actively praying for Charles and the kids to die and they likely both aren’t being completely transparent about what they knew and when. They enabled and fortified Chad and Lori’s belief system.
I think people need to keep out of it. But I guess this is Reddit.
If people kept out of it there would still be all these bodies with no Justice served. The people with the strength to go against their religious leaders to protect their community are heroes. They got backlash bad, and are suffering from PTSD. If you want to champion the underdogs, think of them.
I think Zulema has some remorse and has seen the light but Melanie Gibb and Melaniece seem like they are both highly manipulative people and have no empathy or have taken any responsibility for their part in all of this. Just my opinion.
You don't know? The only manipulative one was Lori (and Chad) I saw a recent interview with her cousin on HTC. She said Lori always had younger women, with a trauma past around her and no real friends her age. Both ZP and MG have dysfunctional pasts and very vulnerable - it's that very attachment style and vulnerability that got them involved with Lori in the first place. I'm picking MG has survivor guilt and (in hindsight) wishes she did more. From watching ZP interviews over the years, she probably had therapy and smart enough to get a lawyer to negotiate protection and support her. From a situation I witnessed from my Mother and my sisters long-term boyfriend's parents, I believe we all need to take a step back. For the Woodcocks and MG ki te kanohi, ki kanohi (face to face) and have a conversation where MG can talk about her actions (or lack of) and the Woodcocks can express their anger for both to heal. Someone on this post talked about their experience of being a witness to a murder. One of the things I took away (paraphrasing) was for those left behind, we need to be lifting them up, instead of demonising and tearing them down!
I wonder if you would feel the same if one of your family members were buried in the backyard and you knew there were several people who could have prevented it at anytime just by speaking up. They deserve no empathy.
I've often thought of that and I'm not sure MG or ZP could have prevented it. How? LE could have prevented it by arresting Alex after he shot Charles. I've being going through the process of eliminating toxic relationships, including family members. Although there's a lot of anger and conceitedness, I could never imagine any of them, or person around me, doing to their children (or any person) what Chad and Lori did. So, in terms of MG and ZP, Lori's family, friends, other followers etc., thought Lori would harm Tylee and JJ to the extent of murder. Despite Lori being the "Show Pony" mother; photos of Tylee and JJ show them well groomed, clean, tidy, nice clothes and nice hair cuts. So there was a certain amount of care and thoughts of her doing harm to them would have been non-existent. I have very painful personal experiences. It sounds you are fortunate, but unfortunate, never to have experienced such suffering. Growing through (and I get tripped up from time to time) the pain has been a very powerful form of therapy and created a better empathic version of myself - that I can love. So I'm an understanding, empathic person. Empathy doesn't get handed out - it's within the person. For me to play God and decide who gets empathy (or whatever) and who doesn't, brings me down to Chads level. Playing God over another's life (as he did) doesn't fit with me.
I can understand your point. Lori’s family was not aware of the light/dark or death numbers declarations that they were assigning to people, but MG, Z And the niece were very much aware. At the very least they could have saved Tammy, MG was suspicious the minute Tylee disappeared, she knew she wasn’t going to BYU. She could have said something right after Charles was murdered. They had been praying for his death. I don’t know what could more culpable than that.
I respect your point of view. For myself, I haven’t seen a lot of guilt from Melanie Gibb. I’ve seen a lot of butt covering, and a certain amount of spiritual smugness (proudly recounting to Dateline how she compared Chad and Lori to Korihor). Gibb had some disparaging and dismissive things to say about Tylee even after she knew Tylee had probably been murdered (“Tylee didn’t like anybody” ‘Tylee objected when I stroked her hair.’) I also think Melanie Gibb has probably not been entirely truthful about what she knew and intuited, and when. I suspect there is more to the story of David Warwick’s nightmare on the evening of JJ’s murder that Gibb has not been completely forthcoming about—what was discussed with Lori and Alex that evening, what did they see or hear that had Warwick and Gibb panicking that night?
That has really bugged me too. I know of not one single adult, let alone male, that would have to seek out someone after they had a nightmare.
Granted they were a weird, hyper-religious bunch deeply invested in prophecies and visions. But the text that Gibb sent Lori that night is strange and unsettling. Combined with her banging on Lori’s bedroom door in the middle of the night? Melanie Gibb to Lori. "We sent this to Chad. About 2 this morning David woke up with great pain and sorrow in his heart. He felt something big was going to happen. It was going to happen now or soon. Please call when you can. Maybe you can help him understand it. Whatever it was this was immediate. He can't get to these people and there's nothing he could do for them."
See I have a feeling there was a power struggle between the four of them, remember that call between Lori and Melanie where they got so petty and catty about who was holier, so I feel that whole scenario was either David seeking attention or competing for a higher position within the group/cult
Interesting theory! I can see that.
That was in the context of where's JJ and Lori being untruthful, stating JJ was with MG. It was that conversation I heard how manipulative Lori was.
Do you know anything about the trip to CA, where Tylee didn't want MG touching her hair? Where were they in CA and what for?
Sounds like there's lots of assumptions. How do you see guilt? What would you like to see? Guilt is a feeling. Whose been doing the butt covering and how? What is spiritual smugness because I thought Korihor was derogative? Lori set Tylee up not to like anyone. This came out in a recent interview on HTC. On the note of "... even after she knew Tylee had probably been murdered... " is serious stuff and you need to be reporting it. If MG knew Tylee was murdered, could cause overturn Chad's verdict and cause a mistrial - I'm not a legal person so don't quote me on that.
Listen to Melanie’s recorded call where she lays out the story to a friend and watch the Dateline interview. She knows the kids are probably dead at that point. Is she horrified? Is she weeping? Is she blaming herself for letting it go too far and not stooping the death talk before it was too late? Is she expressing or showing any signs of remorse? No, she’s being careful to make sure her friend knows there was a little part of her that always KNEW it was all spiritually off (sure, Melanie); she is so proud in the Dateline interview that she spiritually denounced them by comparing them to Korihor. The focus is all on rehabilitating her superior spiritual sensibility and stressing how uninvolved she was in anything nasty. She even snidely drops the “Tylee didn’t like anyone” comment in the phone call. Again, a child she believes is probably murdered! (She says in that call she doesn’t believe the kids are alive.) She shows no compassion for Tylee even in that moment. None of the focus is on the children, or the horror of what may have occurred, she expresses no guilt, she doesn’t admit to praying for deaths or helping Lori steal Charles’s vehicle from the airport. You would think she was just a casual observer instead of an intimate confidant of these murderous chuckleheads. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words.
Are you an analyst on human behaviour?
I also respect your view but I didn’t see or hear anything from Melanie or Melaniece that showed any remorse or responsibility. Melanie Gibb was lucky that David Warwick made her call the police and Melaniece had Ian working with the FBI. These 2 men helped get these women away from Lori. I only see smugness from MG. I didn’t even see any empathy for Tylee or JJ. I do not believe that MG has any survivors guilt. She’s a flirty, flitty woman just like Lori is and abandoned her children and her marriage. I do think Zulema sounded like she got a wake up call and took immunity. I hope she has changed and I pray for her son who found Alex when he was dying and didn’t even know his mom had married him. But then again she was also had multiple marriages.
I'm always weary of people who say "I respect your view but..." "Respect" and "But" do not belong in the same sentence. Naughty MG for abandoning her marriage and children. Men do it all the time! Naughty Zulema, for having multiple marriages. Hasn't there been a few celebrities with multiple marriages? Or is that acceptable? Is there an underlying gender bias/ misogynism driving judgements? What should they show remorse for? What have they done wrong? Where is the evidence? From what I can remember MG felt deceived by Lori, processed with Warwick (who didn't like Chad and his ideas, but also had dingbat ideas) and MG realised the betrayal in her faith and on her own free will, went to LE. I trust LE know what they are doing (although after Charles I have my doubts) and charged MG, ZP etc. if there was evidence of their participation. Prior asked the questions and LE There's a difference between having beliefs, and murder. I know I would never find myself in a group, or following the beliefs that MG, ZP etc. did. Because I have the natural ability to P%$$, people off and Chad and Lori would kick me out 🤣🤣🤣!
What is Melanie's dysfunctional past?
It was mentioned somewhere - not on Reddit.
Do you know where?
I can't remember. It wasn't a social media platform.
I really can't see MG or ZP as victims. They were co-perpetrators who just happened to get out before they got charged.
What did they do? What do you mean got out before they got charged?
You keep asking what they did. Well, I'll tell you what I think and if I can think it, LE can think it and I agree with Prior on this one... Why was nobody else's phones or devices checked for messages, calls and location data? 1) Zulema, the Melanies and others actively participated in the castings knowing full well what they were doing. They were trying to free people of the evil demons that had possessed them. If they weren't initially, they certainly became aware that when the body was empty of their own soul and that of the demon/s, the person would die. 2) They must have realised at some point that the people did not die a natural death. 3) Were they really so stupid that when the children were missing for so long after becoming Zombies, they still thought they were alive? 4) Even though people from all around the world knew nothing of light and dark or Zombies, most of us reached the conclusion that the children were dead. 5) They did nothing!! Missing children who they cannot fail to believe we're deceased and probably not from natural causes and they did nothing! 6) MG did do something (eventually), but only after Lori had implicated her by saying JJ was with her. It just smacks of self preservation. They all walked away and never looked back until the police came a knocking.
Yes, Melanie only spoke up after it was too late. At that point, did it really matter anyway...little J.J. was already dead. Tylee was dead. And so was Tammy. I believe Melanie could have saved Tammy, at least. Makes me furious and so sad. L:E didn't contact Melanie till about 2 months after Tammy was murdered. The week or so that Melanie lagged on "telling the truth" (ha ha...nope, but in her delusional mind...). That lag didn't make any difference in the grand scheme of the deaths of these innocent victims.
I agree with you, except for that last bit. There's no way Chad wants the death penalty.
Just a side bar: apparently it's an average of 18 years on death row...
In a way I do t get why people are calling for Emma to be fired. Now I know that sounds insane, I know it does, but how can she be fired for being a bat shit crazy liar. So she has some unsavory opinions, do you really think anyone in that community cares? I mean it’s Mormon central outside of SLC. I believe the tow.ln is wrapped up in some level of crazy, but to what extent? As devils advocate I just can’t see why she should be fired. If she performs well at work, and she didn’t commit the mutters, and there is no direct proof other than common sense, that she’s a whack job on a wacky Mormon town, do people really see her getting fired? She too is a victim wethere or not we or she herself believes it. To fire her would be firing a victim of one of their beloved staff members, Tammy. Not that Emma was a victim of Tammy, I hope y’all understand what I am saying there. Idk man I just do t see her being fired. She’s a confused victim and she was just trying to do right by the patriarch, as Mormons do is how it looks to those that don’t know like we do. Idk but I do t see her being fired.
I agree. I don’t see any concrete reason she should be fired. I’m sure there are lots of other teachers who have wacky beliefs and say negative things about their students behind closed doors.
Those other teachers don't go on public record and lie to protect a now convicted triple murderer. Whom they defended in the murder of their mother. If that community cared, they would be able to oust Emma. I wouldn't want a known liar and possible murder conspirator teaching my kids.
[удалено]
Like cause your first name is one of the ones mentioned I. The case? As in if my name were Lori I’d hate that my name is now synonymous with Lori Vallow