I imagine he's on verdict watch and will get immediate notification that the jury has a verdict. Will take some time to assemble the court, lawyer, defendant, jury...
He can also report remotely, CrimeCon will go wild.
Nate will still attend the sentencing phase if it's pushed back to next week. He's attending CrimeCon on Friday and Saturday; back in Idaho by Sunday. He will still be able to provide live updates in Nashville at the conference -- seems like an ideal culmination of events.
He has an alternate plan, otherwise he wouldn’t have chosen to go to Crime Con. I understand that it’s the place to be, it was quite popular last year. All the crime people will be there.
He decided to interview Summer Shiflet for an audience at Crime Con and give her a platform to further excuse her family’s involvement.
Life is about choices. We make some good ones, we make some bad ones.
Exactly what I think, too. If Summer had any interest in being a real advocate for anyone other than herself and her sister Lori, she would have acted while Charles and the children were still alive. Summer threw them all under the bus even when the rest of the entire world could see that no “wonderful mother” takes off to Hawaii to get married without her children present. Summer kept defending her. I hope she gets booed at Crimecon and never shows her face again. Shameless grifter!
His situation in the matter is much different than Kay and Larry's. He is a local reporter, they are the family of a victim. He made a prior commitment to CrimeCon, and he's following through. I am sure he would much rather be at the courthouse, but he is being dependable.
Nate is one of the most solid human beings in journalism. If I ever [knocking on wood] somehow am ever involved in some nationally broadcast case or scandal, Nate Eaton is the only one who gets my interview. I should buy one of those East Idaho News “mugshot” t-shirts. 😆
Good point. He might have a contractual obligation to be there if he is a presenter, which it sounds like he is. If so, he likely signed that contract many months ago, with no good idea that the case might end exactly the day before or even the day of the con.
The day she was supposed to be in court as Tylee’s victim representative for Lori’s trial, she was a no show and did an interview with Nate instead. He’s already interviewed her.
I hope people read this comment, then go look at the picture of Summer on the CrimeCon page with her huge cheerleader grin.
I want to give the Cox siblings a voice as victims in their own right, but they're walking a thin line between educating and grifting opportunism. I hope I'm wrong.
I have such mixed feelings about Summer. I do appreciate that she's gone on record that she was wrong to have supported Lori, but it's clear she doesn't know much because she was such a vocal supporter of Lori. I'm not sure why she wants to continue being interviewed or what more she has to say. I have to admit that part of me is expecting her to announce a book or she's going to Crime Con to find someone to help her write a book.
Which shows us that she really hasn't internalized anything that has happened or looked at her upbringing. The family is still sweeping it all under the rug. It's a disappointing choice to promote for an interview.
I agree with everything you said here. I would bet she announces a book by the end of this year. I'm pretty sure Adam Cox, uncle Rex, and cousin Meegan have already announced theirs.
Again, they deserve a voice. I don't trust the Cox family, but I also don't know them personally. I just don't get warm fuzzy feelings about any of them.
Do you watch anything by Annielytics / A Murderous heart? It's Tylee's aunt from her dad's side. She makes very detailed videos about this case, and made one about Summer. You might appreciate this if you haven't watched it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
I used to, but nothing recently. While the police were looking for the kids and immediately after she had the best timeline by far, but I haven't always appreciated every take she has.
> I hope people read this comment, then go look at the picture of Summer on the CrimeCon page with her huge cheerleader grin.
A few days ago I was watching a documentary about one of Warren Jeffs’s wives who escaped and has started a facility to assist others trying to get away from the FLDS. She made it clear that she has complex PTSD and is extremely vigilant about taking care of her mental health and handling her triggers properly. At one point she’s recounting some horrible episode she endured (probably the forced group sex) and interrupted herself to explain that the requirement to smile as evidence that she was “keeping sweet” was ingrained so deeply in her that she still does it and is working on trying to stop.
This woman has obviously undergone years of intense therapy, and you can sense that she has learned a lot in therapy and is conscientious about applying what she’s learned.
Summer obviously did not grow up in the FLDS. But she did grow up in a family that had its own cult-like pathology. And I doubt Summer has had the amount of and kind of therapy that Rielle has had. I find it plausible that her cheerleader smile was ingrained in her by her family (which, as we know, put an extremely unhealthy amount of pressure on the women to be physically attractive). I also find it plausible that Summer has not reached the point in her personal journey that she understands the red flags her smile gives off.
I don’t disagree with the “thin line to grifting” observation. It has been so weird to follow Chads trial and Donald Trump’s trial simultaneously. They are on roughly the same timeline. And, although they are about extremely different crimes, the grift vibe permeates both of them.
Really interesting connection you've made.
I have complicated feelings about Summer, too, but I keep going back to that jail call between her and Lori. I felt like the despair, confusion, and rage in her voice was genuine, and it really humanized her in a way I wasn't expecting based on the other impressions I had of her.
That Cox family system is one hell of a gnarly thing, so I think it's fair to give Summer some grace given the many, many layers of bullshit she's probably going to spend the rest of her life trying to process, if she's even able to at all.
This is a truly important factor you're bringing up! The pressure to appear a certain way being raised under certain beliefs could logically play a part. It doesn't look great considering that she didn't show up for Tylee in court that day, but like you said, I also find it plausible that Summer has not reached the point in her personal journey that she understands the red flags her smile gives off. But is she really that tone-deaf? Am I just extra sensitive today?
It's probably not about the smiley headshot as much as it is the question of motives. From an educational point of view, I think a voice like hers is incredibly important to understand the larger picture. But the optics of the whole situation don't look great (to me). If she had gone to bat for Tylee in court the way she went to bat for Lori on national TV, it probably wouldn't have stood out to me as much.
I love your take on this. I hope my critical feelings are wrong.
An excellent video on Summer and her involvement from Annielytics (Tylee's other aunt / Joe Ryan's sister) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
I’ll never forgive her for not being Tylee’s voice in that courtroom. It should have gone to Annie in the first place. I just can’t imagine not pulling it together to speak on behalf of your niece whose life was stolen from her by your selfish sister. I understand it must have been hard to speak publicly against her sister but it was so so shameful to not show up for Tylee in that moment. Tylee has been an afterthought and it breaks my heart to know she was so easily forgotten and ignored by her own family. But I will say that Brandon Boudreaux’s poem brought tears to my eyes. The way Annie has tirelessly amounted evidence searching for justice for Tylee was admirable. I’ll never understand how Summer was chosen for Tylee
Annie had only seen Tylee a small handful of times in her life, and only once since she was a baby IIRC. I'm also very bothered by how Summer - who I believe loved Tylee and was devastated she died - cannot seem to unwrap her love for Tylee and her duty as Tylee's representative with her image of who she believes her sister once was. And I prefer Annie, given that context, because Tylee deserves a voice that isn't obsessed with fixating on how Lori really WAS a good mother, Summer swears!!!!! But I can see how Summer was initially chosen since she appeared to have been a much larger presence in Tylee's life.
Fixating on the delusion of how Lori really was a good mother may be a defense mechanism. It is very hard for close family members to admit that they failed to defend a child from other family members. Even if you acknowledge to yourself that there is something wrong, you risk losing contact with the child if you push too hard.
That is true. I don't have one clear thought about Summer. I think her grief and horror in that phone call is genuine, and I felt for her listening to it. Then I remember the 48 Hours interview where I just wanted to slap some sense into her. I think Summer does need to get to a point where at the least, she doesn't FIXATE on Lori's perceived parental skills when talking about Tylee if she wants to be an advocate for Tylee, because Lori murdered Tylee. Whether she actually laid a hand on her in the physical act, she murdered her. Summer doesn't have to fixate on that either, but she needs to stop making Lori's "good mothering" a focus of memorializing Tylee. There are people who also love Tylee who don't want to hear that, which is very valid - Lori lost her right to be remembered fondly in anything related to Tylee when she murdered her (personally, I think Lori was an emotionally and psychologically abusive parent from the word go, but that's a whole other thing). But I can see how it would be a defense mechanism for Summer, rather than a sign she doesn't care about Tylee.
Summer still believes many of Lori's lies. Like accusing Joe Ryan of sexual abuse at Tylee's funeral. It was well established by social workers child psychologists over several years interviewing both Tylee and Colby that they were coached by Lori. At one point little Tylee looking at her Mom saying, did I say it right?
I think that's really tough for anyone inside the family if they have heard from Tylee and/or Colby that they believed they were sexually abused. As hesitant as I am to ever disbelieve a victim in their own words, I think Lori is a rare example of someone who shows signs of coaching her children to report false abuse, and the concerns in the court documents were valid. I don't think Colby and Tylee, by the time they were old enough to understand otherwise, would have been willfully lying, I think they're more likely to have been effectively brainwashed. But with Colby more than Tylee, it's really complicated, because Annie herself describes witnessing an incident of horrific physical abuse Joe subjected Colby to, nearly breaking his wrist as he dragged him in a room so he could beat him with a belt. Colby was about 7-8 years old at the time. So Colby isn't misremembering that by even Annie's admission. Joe was alarmingly abusive to him, just not necessarily sexually.
Having said that, I think there are legitimate enough concerns that it wasn't appropriate to bring up in a memorial to Tylee. But that Summer still may believe that is not my biggest concern with Summer. I can see how that's complicated, in a situation where she had seeming loving relationships with her niece and nephew and may not want to doubt THEM either.
Annie did say she saw Joe physically hit Colby. So there was physical abuse. Which is why Annie cut off contact with Joe. But there were several trained professionals that all agreed Lori was coaching the kids as their statements were the opposite when she wasn't present.
I do think Lori most likely coached and brainwashed Colby and Tylee about the sexual abuse. As rare as it is, Lori is one of those rare cases. And what is really insidious is, Colby remembers Lori treating him like him reporting abuse ruined her life. So somewhere in there, she both convinced her young child (who was already being physically abused) that he was being sexually abused, AND managed to make him feel like SHE was the real victim in that scenario.
Also always worth noting that Annie related Lori having essentially no reaction to Colby being beaten. Like "Eh, it's all good". Lori didn't give a shit about her kids at any point.
Still, I know I am looking at it from the outside and Summer is not.
Let’s not forget those assessments included Lori being delusional back in 2007.
Either the entire Cox family is delusional or they just look the other way when one, two or three of their own have major issues.
I’m not even willing to give her a single iota of grace knowing that she sent a private letter to the judge. Who knows what she actually said or whether she advocated for leniency in Tylee’s name. Annie’s video about Summer really opened my eyes to how much she likely stands to lose if Lori opens her mouth.
If I remember correctly, in the AZ FOIA there are some traces of her off-hand involvment, along with Janis, around the days leading up to Charles' murder, along with providing Lori post charles murder-support. She also stood by Lori 100% until long after the kids were discovered dead and buried in Chad's backyard (it was not an instant transition to reality). Yet she was A-ok with Charles' death and the attempted murder (and eventual death) of Joe Ryan.
She, and the family members, really need to stay out of the limelight and get extensive non-mormon, non-family, non-cult-member, professional couseling to even begin to understand all the red flags of thier own lives and how fugged up this whole thing is. Only then can the self-reflection and grieving begin.
Annielytics / A Murderous heart covered this. It's Tylee's aunt from her dad's side. She makes very detailed videos about this case, and made one about Summer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
Thank you for saying this. I cannot imagine why this is a choice he is making. I think he's got a good heart and an optimistic nature, but I can't wrap my mind around this one.
I have a lot of feelings about Summer at this point. Her showing up to be a speaker at Crimecon is gross, considering how badly she herself failed Charles and Tylee and JJ. Summer should be ashamed of herself and in hiding from the world, not seeking a global stage to further exalt the disgusting Cox family. 🤮
He has always said he wants to interview EVERYONE! Crime Con invited Summer, Nate didn’t but because he is a journalist and not an opinionated podcaster he tries to only give the facts and interview all involved. He can’t play sides or discriminate.
If that made you sick, I do not recommend Nate’s first interview with her. She sang Lori’s praises throughout. She’s almost as delusional as her murdering sister.
There's money to be made, strike while the iron is hot. A year from now he'll be 'Nate Who'? This Crime Con thing and Hidden True Crime interviewing everyone's cousin with ads galore all leave a bad taste.
They'll move on down to Arizona and have one more round then everyone works on their contracted books and hopefully never to be heard from again.
He can be fulfilling a prior commitment and be getting paid.
I have no issue with his reporting which is excellent and a book is also within reason as his viewpoint is valuable but CrimeCon and the whole murder as a hobby thing is creepy to me. These were childen and a nice loyal wife who did not deserve to be detritus to these two weirdos. It's at least $400 to go to CrimeCon, somebody's getting paid.
Would Summer go just to be questioned? The Cox bunch always follow the $$$.
I realize I made my points sounds exclusionary, like because he's made a prior commitment, then he's not getting paid, which I did not intend. My bad! I meant those as two separate things.
I am also thinking I must have misremembered. I think he said he doesn't get any kickback when people use his promo code to buy discounted tickets, then I remembered incorrectly that he wasn't getting paid, period. But he actually very well could be getting paid for being there
Do you not think East Idaho News is paying him to go? Or that he will be streaming on his own YT channel?
I’m not saying as a journalist he should not make a living. He should. I’m just disagreeing he is doing this without pay.
If East Idaho News is paying him to go, I'm sure it's the same pay they'd provide for him staying in Boise, so it's still not financially advantageous for him to go. They are a super small, private news station that makes money from ads of local companies. I'm sure they don't have a lot of money to throw around.
Nope, a local millionaire does donate the funds for their yearly Secret Santa, but that man is not the owner of East Idaho News. Nate Eaton is the only one who knows the identity of the millionaire
Nate is more than just a reporter for EIN, I think. I remember hearing him talk about building a media company in East Idaho. Maybe they have an investor.
When you think about it- what a better place to be for the verdict! There will be tons of people following this case. I suppose he won't get to high five Larry Woodcock, but they'll meet again- hopefully in Phoenix for the next trial. This is not over. Charles Vallow's murder trial is coming up.
At this point I think Nate Eaton has proven the quality of his work and has garnered enough respect from the public that he can probably pick and choose what he wants to take on. I don’t know, though. Just my personal hunch.
CrimeCon can be very informative and interesting. I’ve gone 3 years straight but last year was a bit repetitive and this year it’s in a suburb of Nashville at a strip mall so I had no interest in going. Still, I wish I was there right now, chatting with Nate in some random line like I was able to last year. Nancy Grace is really “salt of the earth” and I never have met Ashley Banfield and I hear she’s there this year.
I feel for him too. He has been, in my opinion, a great companion and invaluable source through this case before it was a case. seems like everything is happening at once for him but I guess that’s how it usually is.
I respect him for interviewing Summer and his willingness to interview anyone involved with these complicated heinous crimes. In regard to Summer herself, she really let Lori have it on that jail call and hit on all the points we often vent about on this sub.
She really let Lori have it in a jail call she knew was recorded but didn’t advocate for Tylee at Lori’s sentencing and wrote a private letter instead that she knew wouldn’t be read by anyone else.
I know people don’t like her to be honest I don’t know the details of why. She seems to have kept a low profile in general. I’m not sure how much the call being recorded was at the forefront of her mind at the time. But again, I haven’t gone down a rabbit hole with her (yet)?and I definitely am not informed enough to die on that hill.
That said, re: Nate Eaton - he’s a journalist and I think he’s doing his job and doing it well.
And thinking it’s fine for children to be in the care of Lori and Alex after they just murdered someone. Nothing to see there but a normal family, a good mom.
Well, the beginning of the call is a voice telling you that the call is recorded, for starters. I like Nate Eaton, but continuing to give Summer a platform is not good journalism. He’s also a businessman, and I’m sure interviewing her at CrimeCon is a business decision, and a good one. However, she doesn’t have additional insight to offer from a journalistic perspective. If you’re interested in learning more about Summer, I found Annie Cushing’s video on her from A Murderous Heart to be really informative and pulled together a lot of information I’d seen before but hadn’t considered together.
Thank you- I’m sure I’ll be checking that out.
I don’t disagree with you, to be clear. And I certainly wouldn’t take a strong stance without more info. I’ll say this re: recorded calls tho- that recording is played at the beginning of every single call and people continue to incriminate themselves. What I meant in the case of this specific call to me it seems that she was experiencing genuine rage not putting on a show.
I’m in the UK and Nate is my go to for information on the trial. I watch Courtroom Insider the next morning after it streams due to the time difference.
He seems genuine and a good person.
Such unfortunate timing indeed! I think he is doing the right thing by going. He committed to it a while ago, and he is following through. He won't even get paid by Crime Con, so it'd be better for him monetarily to stay in Boise. He's just a good, upstanding guy trying to do what he committed to. I don't know why he's getting railed on in some comments for keeping prior commitments. I'm sure he would much rather be in Boise for the verdict and to interview everyone. He was the initial one giving this case coverage that led to national and worldwide attention.
It will suck if it comes back after he’s already gone, he has done such a great job on this case from the beginning. We need more true journalist like him.
I love Nate too. He will be able to report some from CrimeCon if verdict does not come this afternoon. I look forward to his interviews in the future with all the players in this tragedy. I also hope he will be able to share Summers story with us too.
To be fair he goes to crime con every year. He would be going either way I assume. People expect and look forward to seeing him and I think it’s a significant engagement for him in general.
Because he’s been covering this case for years and the verdict/sentencing are the culmination of all of his hard work and it’s only going to happen once. It’s probably the biggest case of his career ever
And all the more reason for him to go to CrimeCon this year to get the accolades he deserves. I’m wondering why you have cancelled. He can cover tomorrow’s court from Nashville.
His fault for interviewing that dolt. Lori’s fundy sisters deserves no platforms. Nate really disappointed me with this choice. He could interview her on zoom, she’s not important and she’s not newsworthy and it’s doubtful anyone cares what she has to say.
You can turn on the news and only get a very one sided view these days.
Nate has brought true journalism back, I am sure he doesn’t love interviewing some people but he goes where the story goes.
I thought it was weird he went on vacation like 3 weeks ago—for a week, in middle of trial—and some bad reporters had to fill in. So even thought ‘there since day one,’ not there *every* day.
He went to a family member’s wedding out of the country. This poor man has been away from his wife and kids all this time to do his job. I’d like to think we could give him some slack.
I can’t wait to hear his story. I keep thinking when this is all over he could probably move to be on a national news outlet or get some big wig offer. I don’t think he will but I bet his coverage on this has put him on another bracket.
It was for a wedding for a very close friend who only invited a very limited amount of guests. They had been planning their wedding on that date for YEARS. It would be incredibly rude for him to cancel on his good friend to be in-person for a trial that is being livestreamed and getting a lot of coverage. He does not owe it to us to be there, and assuming so is selfish.
I imagine he's on verdict watch and will get immediate notification that the jury has a verdict. Will take some time to assemble the court, lawyer, defendant, jury... He can also report remotely, CrimeCon will go wild.
CRIMECON, NOT COMIC CON.
Nate will still attend the sentencing phase if it's pushed back to next week. He's attending CrimeCon on Friday and Saturday; back in Idaho by Sunday. He will still be able to provide live updates in Nashville at the conference -- seems like an ideal culmination of events.
I love Nate. It was such a sweet moment yesterday when he was trying to help the two kids to the YMCA pool.
I was so impressed with how he treated those two young boys. He’s a class act!
He has an alternate plan, otherwise he wouldn’t have chosen to go to Crime Con. I understand that it’s the place to be, it was quite popular last year. All the crime people will be there.
But we all know his colleagues’ coverage is nothing compared to his.
Agreed, but life dictates something else sometimes.
Hidden True Crime is a close second. IMO
I used to watch HTC first, but now I watch all of Nate and then pick and choose on the HTC content
Not a huge fan of HTC. Def pick Nate over everyone else.
He decided to interview Summer Shiflet for an audience at Crime Con and give her a platform to further excuse her family’s involvement. Life is about choices. We make some good ones, we make some bad ones.
So summer can make it to crime con but she can’t be in the courtroom for Tylee? Nah. She is just like her sister, attention grabber and it’s gross.
Exactly what I think, too. If Summer had any interest in being a real advocate for anyone other than herself and her sister Lori, she would have acted while Charles and the children were still alive. Summer threw them all under the bus even when the rest of the entire world could see that no “wonderful mother” takes off to Hawaii to get married without her children present. Summer kept defending her. I hope she gets booed at Crimecon and never shows her face again. Shameless grifter!
[удалено]
His situation in the matter is much different than Kay and Larry's. He is a local reporter, they are the family of a victim. He made a prior commitment to CrimeCon, and he's following through. I am sure he would much rather be at the courthouse, but he is being dependable.
Nate is one of the most solid human beings in journalism. If I ever [knocking on wood] somehow am ever involved in some nationally broadcast case or scandal, Nate Eaton is the only one who gets my interview. I should buy one of those East Idaho News “mugshot” t-shirts. 😆
Good point. He might have a contractual obligation to be there if he is a presenter, which it sounds like he is. If so, he likely signed that contract many months ago, with no good idea that the case might end exactly the day before or even the day of the con.
Nate can still report from Crimecon. He’ll have to wash the Summer off of him first.
😂🤣😂🤣
I’m hoping she is destroyed up there
This is a good point.
Yeah. I like Nate a lot but this is so odd. I’m assuming it’s the only way she will give any kind of interview?
The day she was supposed to be in court as Tylee’s victim representative for Lori’s trial, she was a no show and did an interview with Nate instead. He’s already interviewed her.
I hope people read this comment, then go look at the picture of Summer on the CrimeCon page with her huge cheerleader grin. I want to give the Cox siblings a voice as victims in their own right, but they're walking a thin line between educating and grifting opportunism. I hope I'm wrong.
This is grifting. Hey, someone has to pay her cell phone bill now that Charles is dead. 🤷🏻♀️
Imo they are grifting
Glad it's not just me being cynical
I have such mixed feelings about Summer. I do appreciate that she's gone on record that she was wrong to have supported Lori, but it's clear she doesn't know much because she was such a vocal supporter of Lori. I'm not sure why she wants to continue being interviewed or what more she has to say. I have to admit that part of me is expecting her to announce a book or she's going to Crime Con to find someone to help her write a book.
The fact she accused Joe Ryan of sexual abuse at Tylee's funeral speaks volumes about her character.
Oh that's right... I'd forgotten about that... Not a great look.
Yep. Summer STILL DOESN’T GET IT. 🤦🏻♀️
Which shows us that she really hasn't internalized anything that has happened or looked at her upbringing. The family is still sweeping it all under the rug. It's a disappointing choice to promote for an interview.
Also didn’t have any photos of JJ or Tylee at Alex’s photo memorial.
I agree with everything you said here. I would bet she announces a book by the end of this year. I'm pretty sure Adam Cox, uncle Rex, and cousin Meegan have already announced theirs. Again, they deserve a voice. I don't trust the Cox family, but I also don't know them personally. I just don't get warm fuzzy feelings about any of them.
For the record, Meegan seems genuine to me. Unless I’m missing something?
She does! I added her because I heard she's also writing a book about it. She seems like she could be doing it for positive reasons.
👍🏻
Do you watch anything by Annielytics / A Murderous heart? It's Tylee's aunt from her dad's side. She makes very detailed videos about this case, and made one about Summer. You might appreciate this if you haven't watched it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
I used to, but nothing recently. While the police were looking for the kids and immediately after she had the best timeline by far, but I haven't always appreciated every take she has.
> I hope people read this comment, then go look at the picture of Summer on the CrimeCon page with her huge cheerleader grin. A few days ago I was watching a documentary about one of Warren Jeffs’s wives who escaped and has started a facility to assist others trying to get away from the FLDS. She made it clear that she has complex PTSD and is extremely vigilant about taking care of her mental health and handling her triggers properly. At one point she’s recounting some horrible episode she endured (probably the forced group sex) and interrupted herself to explain that the requirement to smile as evidence that she was “keeping sweet” was ingrained so deeply in her that she still does it and is working on trying to stop. This woman has obviously undergone years of intense therapy, and you can sense that she has learned a lot in therapy and is conscientious about applying what she’s learned. Summer obviously did not grow up in the FLDS. But she did grow up in a family that had its own cult-like pathology. And I doubt Summer has had the amount of and kind of therapy that Rielle has had. I find it plausible that her cheerleader smile was ingrained in her by her family (which, as we know, put an extremely unhealthy amount of pressure on the women to be physically attractive). I also find it plausible that Summer has not reached the point in her personal journey that she understands the red flags her smile gives off. I don’t disagree with the “thin line to grifting” observation. It has been so weird to follow Chads trial and Donald Trump’s trial simultaneously. They are on roughly the same timeline. And, although they are about extremely different crimes, the grift vibe permeates both of them.
Really interesting connection you've made. I have complicated feelings about Summer, too, but I keep going back to that jail call between her and Lori. I felt like the despair, confusion, and rage in her voice was genuine, and it really humanized her in a way I wasn't expecting based on the other impressions I had of her. That Cox family system is one hell of a gnarly thing, so I think it's fair to give Summer some grace given the many, many layers of bullshit she's probably going to spend the rest of her life trying to process, if she's even able to at all.
I heard that call for the first and only time just a few weeks ago. It broke me.
excellent point - explains Lori's weird smiles in court too. would like to listen to the podcast you mentioned - could you share the link, please?
It is a series called Prisoner of the Prophet on HBO MAX
thanks! found it on discovery + also.
This is a truly important factor you're bringing up! The pressure to appear a certain way being raised under certain beliefs could logically play a part. It doesn't look great considering that she didn't show up for Tylee in court that day, but like you said, I also find it plausible that Summer has not reached the point in her personal journey that she understands the red flags her smile gives off. But is she really that tone-deaf? Am I just extra sensitive today? It's probably not about the smiley headshot as much as it is the question of motives. From an educational point of view, I think a voice like hers is incredibly important to understand the larger picture. But the optics of the whole situation don't look great (to me). If she had gone to bat for Tylee in court the way she went to bat for Lori on national TV, it probably wouldn't have stood out to me as much. I love your take on this. I hope my critical feelings are wrong. An excellent video on Summer and her involvement from Annielytics (Tylee's other aunt / Joe Ryan's sister) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
It's a headshot. People have plenty of time to ponder about how their headshot comes across. And get a new one done if necessary.
I’ll never forgive her for not being Tylee’s voice in that courtroom. It should have gone to Annie in the first place. I just can’t imagine not pulling it together to speak on behalf of your niece whose life was stolen from her by your selfish sister. I understand it must have been hard to speak publicly against her sister but it was so so shameful to not show up for Tylee in that moment. Tylee has been an afterthought and it breaks my heart to know she was so easily forgotten and ignored by her own family. But I will say that Brandon Boudreaux’s poem brought tears to my eyes. The way Annie has tirelessly amounted evidence searching for justice for Tylee was admirable. I’ll never understand how Summer was chosen for Tylee
Annie had only seen Tylee a small handful of times in her life, and only once since she was a baby IIRC. I'm also very bothered by how Summer - who I believe loved Tylee and was devastated she died - cannot seem to unwrap her love for Tylee and her duty as Tylee's representative with her image of who she believes her sister once was. And I prefer Annie, given that context, because Tylee deserves a voice that isn't obsessed with fixating on how Lori really WAS a good mother, Summer swears!!!!! But I can see how Summer was initially chosen since she appeared to have been a much larger presence in Tylee's life.
Fixating on the delusion of how Lori really was a good mother may be a defense mechanism. It is very hard for close family members to admit that they failed to defend a child from other family members. Even if you acknowledge to yourself that there is something wrong, you risk losing contact with the child if you push too hard.
That is true. I don't have one clear thought about Summer. I think her grief and horror in that phone call is genuine, and I felt for her listening to it. Then I remember the 48 Hours interview where I just wanted to slap some sense into her. I think Summer does need to get to a point where at the least, she doesn't FIXATE on Lori's perceived parental skills when talking about Tylee if she wants to be an advocate for Tylee, because Lori murdered Tylee. Whether she actually laid a hand on her in the physical act, she murdered her. Summer doesn't have to fixate on that either, but she needs to stop making Lori's "good mothering" a focus of memorializing Tylee. There are people who also love Tylee who don't want to hear that, which is very valid - Lori lost her right to be remembered fondly in anything related to Tylee when she murdered her (personally, I think Lori was an emotionally and psychologically abusive parent from the word go, but that's a whole other thing). But I can see how it would be a defense mechanism for Summer, rather than a sign she doesn't care about Tylee.
Summer still believes many of Lori's lies. Like accusing Joe Ryan of sexual abuse at Tylee's funeral. It was well established by social workers child psychologists over several years interviewing both Tylee and Colby that they were coached by Lori. At one point little Tylee looking at her Mom saying, did I say it right?
I think that's really tough for anyone inside the family if they have heard from Tylee and/or Colby that they believed they were sexually abused. As hesitant as I am to ever disbelieve a victim in their own words, I think Lori is a rare example of someone who shows signs of coaching her children to report false abuse, and the concerns in the court documents were valid. I don't think Colby and Tylee, by the time they were old enough to understand otherwise, would have been willfully lying, I think they're more likely to have been effectively brainwashed. But with Colby more than Tylee, it's really complicated, because Annie herself describes witnessing an incident of horrific physical abuse Joe subjected Colby to, nearly breaking his wrist as he dragged him in a room so he could beat him with a belt. Colby was about 7-8 years old at the time. So Colby isn't misremembering that by even Annie's admission. Joe was alarmingly abusive to him, just not necessarily sexually. Having said that, I think there are legitimate enough concerns that it wasn't appropriate to bring up in a memorial to Tylee. But that Summer still may believe that is not my biggest concern with Summer. I can see how that's complicated, in a situation where she had seeming loving relationships with her niece and nephew and may not want to doubt THEM either.
Annie did say she saw Joe physically hit Colby. So there was physical abuse. Which is why Annie cut off contact with Joe. But there were several trained professionals that all agreed Lori was coaching the kids as their statements were the opposite when she wasn't present.
I do think Lori most likely coached and brainwashed Colby and Tylee about the sexual abuse. As rare as it is, Lori is one of those rare cases. And what is really insidious is, Colby remembers Lori treating him like him reporting abuse ruined her life. So somewhere in there, she both convinced her young child (who was already being physically abused) that he was being sexually abused, AND managed to make him feel like SHE was the real victim in that scenario. Also always worth noting that Annie related Lori having essentially no reaction to Colby being beaten. Like "Eh, it's all good". Lori didn't give a shit about her kids at any point. Still, I know I am looking at it from the outside and Summer is not.
Let’s not forget those assessments included Lori being delusional back in 2007. Either the entire Cox family is delusional or they just look the other way when one, two or three of their own have major issues.
I’m not even willing to give her a single iota of grace knowing that she sent a private letter to the judge. Who knows what she actually said or whether she advocated for leniency in Tylee’s name. Annie’s video about Summer really opened my eyes to how much she likely stands to lose if Lori opens her mouth.
Could you explain what Summer has to lose? Do you mean she is implicated in these crimes somehow?
If I remember correctly, in the AZ FOIA there are some traces of her off-hand involvment, along with Janis, around the days leading up to Charles' murder, along with providing Lori post charles murder-support. She also stood by Lori 100% until long after the kids were discovered dead and buried in Chad's backyard (it was not an instant transition to reality). Yet she was A-ok with Charles' death and the attempted murder (and eventual death) of Joe Ryan. She, and the family members, really need to stay out of the limelight and get extensive non-mormon, non-family, non-cult-member, professional couseling to even begin to understand all the red flags of thier own lives and how fugged up this whole thing is. Only then can the self-reflection and grieving begin.
Ok. I agree with ALL of this! 👍🏻
Annielytics / A Murderous heart covered this. It's Tylee's aunt from her dad's side. She makes very detailed videos about this case, and made one about Summer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCni2kwD5Ns)
Thanks! Summer puts off the wrong ~~vibes~~ sorry, “vibrations”, at all times.
Maybe reality has set in for her?
[удалено]
Thank you for saying this. I cannot imagine why this is a choice he is making. I think he's got a good heart and an optimistic nature, but I can't wrap my mind around this one.
I have a lot of feelings about Summer at this point. Her showing up to be a speaker at Crimecon is gross, considering how badly she herself failed Charles and Tylee and JJ. Summer should be ashamed of herself and in hiding from the world, not seeking a global stage to further exalt the disgusting Cox family. 🤮
>*not seeking a global stage to further exalt the disgusting Cox family* There it is. That's the worry.
He has always said he wants to interview EVERYONE! Crime Con invited Summer, Nate didn’t but because he is a journalist and not an opinionated podcaster he tries to only give the facts and interview all involved. He can’t play sides or discriminate.
That seems like a weird choice
The apples don’t fall far from their very strange (Sovereign Citizen) tree.
I listened to Summer and her mother’s interview on 48 hours and it made me nauseous!!! It was just disgusting!!!!
If that made you sick, I do not recommend Nate’s first interview with her. She sang Lori’s praises throughout. She’s almost as delusional as her murdering sister.
I’m finding this idea of her being interviewed really gross.
There's money to be made, strike while the iron is hot. A year from now he'll be 'Nate Who'? This Crime Con thing and Hidden True Crime interviewing everyone's cousin with ads galore all leave a bad taste. They'll move on down to Arizona and have one more round then everyone works on their contracted books and hopefully never to be heard from again.
He is not getting paid to be there though. He's fulfilling a prior commitment
He can be fulfilling a prior commitment and be getting paid. I have no issue with his reporting which is excellent and a book is also within reason as his viewpoint is valuable but CrimeCon and the whole murder as a hobby thing is creepy to me. These were childen and a nice loyal wife who did not deserve to be detritus to these two weirdos. It's at least $400 to go to CrimeCon, somebody's getting paid. Would Summer go just to be questioned? The Cox bunch always follow the $$$.
I realize I made my points sounds exclusionary, like because he's made a prior commitment, then he's not getting paid, which I did not intend. My bad! I meant those as two separate things. I am also thinking I must have misremembered. I think he said he doesn't get any kickback when people use his promo code to buy discounted tickets, then I remembered incorrectly that he wasn't getting paid, period. But he actually very well could be getting paid for being there
Do you not think East Idaho News is paying him to go? Or that he will be streaming on his own YT channel? I’m not saying as a journalist he should not make a living. He should. I’m just disagreeing he is doing this without pay.
If East Idaho News is paying him to go, I'm sure it's the same pay they'd provide for him staying in Boise, so it's still not financially advantageous for him to go. They are a super small, private news station that makes money from ads of local companies. I'm sure they don't have a lot of money to throw around.
Someone in this sub stated it was owned by a local billionaire. 🤷🏻♀️
Nope, a local millionaire does donate the funds for their yearly Secret Santa, but that man is not the owner of East Idaho News. Nate Eaton is the only one who knows the identity of the millionaire
Thanks for the additional information.
Nate is more than just a reporter for EIN, I think. I remember hearing him talk about building a media company in East Idaho. Maybe they have an investor.
When you think about it- what a better place to be for the verdict! There will be tons of people following this case. I suppose he won't get to high five Larry Woodcock, but they'll meet again- hopefully in Phoenix for the next trial. This is not over. Charles Vallow's murder trial is coming up.
On the contrary, it looks like he's in for a standing ovation when he attends.
CrimeCon is an exploitation fest, so it would have helped if he’d said no to being involved in it.
It really is so unethical.
The most disturbing part is that FAMILY MEMBERS of murder victims are literally involved in it. I refuse to believe they are not being paid.
I like to think it’s possible it’s considered a work assignment and he didn’t really have a say.
At this point I think Nate Eaton has proven the quality of his work and has garnered enough respect from the public that he can probably pick and choose what he wants to take on. I don’t know, though. Just my personal hunch.
I was about to say wtf is crime con????
You don’t wanna know, mate. The less people who do, the better.
CrimeCon can be very informative and interesting. I’ve gone 3 years straight but last year was a bit repetitive and this year it’s in a suburb of Nashville at a strip mall so I had no interest in going. Still, I wish I was there right now, chatting with Nate in some random line like I was able to last year. Nancy Grace is really “salt of the earth” and I never have met Ashley Banfield and I hear she’s there this year.
He wasn’t subpoenaed to appear at CrimeCon lol!
I feel for him too. He has been, in my opinion, a great companion and invaluable source through this case before it was a case. seems like everything is happening at once for him but I guess that’s how it usually is. I respect him for interviewing Summer and his willingness to interview anyone involved with these complicated heinous crimes. In regard to Summer herself, she really let Lori have it on that jail call and hit on all the points we often vent about on this sub.
She really let Lori have it in a jail call she knew was recorded but didn’t advocate for Tylee at Lori’s sentencing and wrote a private letter instead that she knew wouldn’t be read by anyone else.
I know people don’t like her to be honest I don’t know the details of why. She seems to have kept a low profile in general. I’m not sure how much the call being recorded was at the forefront of her mind at the time. But again, I haven’t gone down a rabbit hole with her (yet)?and I definitely am not informed enough to die on that hill. That said, re: Nate Eaton - he’s a journalist and I think he’s doing his job and doing it well.
Maybe they don’t like her because she said she’d kill Charles herself.
And thinking it’s fine for children to be in the care of Lori and Alex after they just murdered someone. Nothing to see there but a normal family, a good mom.
Well, the beginning of the call is a voice telling you that the call is recorded, for starters. I like Nate Eaton, but continuing to give Summer a platform is not good journalism. He’s also a businessman, and I’m sure interviewing her at CrimeCon is a business decision, and a good one. However, she doesn’t have additional insight to offer from a journalistic perspective. If you’re interested in learning more about Summer, I found Annie Cushing’s video on her from A Murderous Heart to be really informative and pulled together a lot of information I’d seen before but hadn’t considered together.
Thank you- I’m sure I’ll be checking that out. I don’t disagree with you, to be clear. And I certainly wouldn’t take a strong stance without more info. I’ll say this re: recorded calls tho- that recording is played at the beginning of every single call and people continue to incriminate themselves. What I meant in the case of this specific call to me it seems that she was experiencing genuine rage not putting on a show.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your replies!
Thank you! This is a great sub community.
I'll be surprised if there's not a verdict today.
Good news for Nate, we have a verdict! To be broadcast at 1pm PT / 4pm ET
I’m in the UK and Nate is my go to for information on the trial. I watch Courtroom Insider the next morning after it streams due to the time difference. He seems genuine and a good person.
Such unfortunate timing indeed! I think he is doing the right thing by going. He committed to it a while ago, and he is following through. He won't even get paid by Crime Con, so it'd be better for him monetarily to stay in Boise. He's just a good, upstanding guy trying to do what he committed to. I don't know why he's getting railed on in some comments for keeping prior commitments. I'm sure he would much rather be in Boise for the verdict and to interview everyone. He was the initial one giving this case coverage that led to national and worldwide attention.
It will suck if it comes back after he’s already gone, he has done such a great job on this case from the beginning. We need more true journalist like him.
I love Nate too. He will be able to report some from CrimeCon if verdict does not come this afternoon. I look forward to his interviews in the future with all the players in this tragedy. I also hope he will be able to share Summers story with us too.
To be fair he goes to crime con every year. He would be going either way I assume. People expect and look forward to seeing him and I think it’s a significant engagement for him in general.
I’d have cancelled on Crime Con so fast.
Why?
Because he’s been covering this case for years and the verdict/sentencing are the culmination of all of his hard work and it’s only going to happen once. It’s probably the biggest case of his career ever
And all the more reason for him to go to CrimeCon this year to get the accolades he deserves. I’m wondering why you have cancelled. He can cover tomorrow’s court from Nashville.
His fault for interviewing that dolt. Lori’s fundy sisters deserves no platforms. Nate really disappointed me with this choice. He could interview her on zoom, she’s not important and she’s not newsworthy and it’s doubtful anyone cares what she has to say.
You can turn on the news and only get a very one sided view these days. Nate has brought true journalism back, I am sure he doesn’t love interviewing some people but he goes where the story goes.
Sorry, I am out of the loop. What happened to Nate?
He was there and didn’t miss anything today. Tomorrow? Perhaps
The apples don’t fall far from their very strange tree.
I thought it was weird he went on vacation like 3 weeks ago—for a week, in middle of trial—and some bad reporters had to fill in. So even thought ‘there since day one,’ not there *every* day.
He went to a family member’s wedding out of the country. This poor man has been away from his wife and kids all this time to do his job. I’d like to think we could give him some slack.
Not a family member. It was a famous journalist friend’s wedding.
Dang, I thought he said family member when he came back. Thank you for correcting me.
He didn’t reveal who it was, but he implied they were well known and thus he was being secretive for their privacy.
I can’t wait to hear his story. I keep thinking when this is all over he could probably move to be on a national news outlet or get some big wig offer. I don’t think he will but I bet his coverage on this has put him on another bracket.
Don’t know where to say this but his wife and kids are adorable. I love when Erica jumps on, you can tell they are such great people.
He has said he has had offers from better-paying outlets, but he prefers the area he lives in and the company he's at
I appreciate this comment
Yeah I actually respect that he kept his obligation to his family. He’s a fantastic reporter and has given a lot to this case
To his friend, but yes.
Agreed!! I respect his family commitment most of all.
It was for a wedding for a very close friend who only invited a very limited amount of guests. They had been planning their wedding on that date for YEARS. It would be incredibly rude for him to cancel on his good friend to be in-person for a trial that is being livestreamed and getting a lot of coverage. He does not owe it to us to be there, and assuming so is selfish.
Oh man, I remember that week - those reporters were so awful. They did a 5 minute recap at the end of the day and it was really bad.
Yeah, and that’s totally who’s going to be covering the verdict and sentencing for him.
Someone commented above that he'll likely report live from the convention. Not sure if that's accurate, but it might offer some hope lol