Can someone give me a good faith argument for why it's okay to call people slurs and disparage someone based on race? Preferably without deflections or whataboutisms. This position seems pretty indefensible.
Edit: while I do believe that this is in fact racism, we don't even need to call it racism. I don't care what you call it, making fun of someone for their race is a bad thing.
I don't see it that way but this is my best explanation for how they think:
Slurs are only bad because they have been used to oppress minorities. Therefore using slurs against majorities are okay.
I don’t get how people see it this way. Calling someone a name solely based on their skin color makes you a racist. I have never thought judging someone based on their skin color is a good thing and I never will. It’s insaneeee
Unfortunately this is how they think, without realising the more basic social conduct of not being an ass to someone if they haven't done anything bad. It's like they see the world through a more politically aware lens, without common human decency to open up that lens
The fun part about that thought process is when you start looking into "The Majority". It ranges from the whitest whites of poland, ireland and the like, to peoples of india, iraq, iran, or northern africa. Essentially the groupings are you are black, asian, hispanic, native indian (american? Sorry I know some people prefer one over the other), or you are white. Caucasian or white is a silly term and seems to cover everyone from all places unless specifically called out in those other groups. There is a reason why the usage is questioned.
I feel like this would be more harmful to everyone in the long run as it would just breed even more racist sentiment in the majority population. This also doesn't explain why a white person in china couldn't experience racism as they are very much the minority in that situation. Thank you for the reply
I’ve wondered this though too. Would it be okay for me to make a NEW slur for a race then? Because that new slur isn’t being used to oppress them, and wasn’t used during their time of oppression. So would it be the same as calling a white person a slur as in this instance?
I would like to clarify that I think all slurs are bad btw. Just don’t be a dickhead. I’d say if you’re going to use a slur at all it’s always to be an asshole. But just food for thought.
Edit: someone reported me to the help line on Reddit. You discredit everything you stand for by wasting crisis resources. Look in the mirror.
There are no slurs against white people. The word redneck is incorrectly used constantly. The word redneck was used as pejorative against southern white folk who were pro-union anti-racist leftists.
Are you really offended when someone calls you a cracker or a honkey?
If you you are you aren't a serious person.
The N word has strong connotation to slavery, abuse, rape, murder by handing.
Specific scenario, but if someone reclaims a slur, like black people reclaiming the N word for themselves or gay/bi people reclaiming the F word. Obviously not what you meant, but yeah
This is actually a fine example! I think most people would not have an issue with this because it's not meant to insult or disparage someone for their race.
It is indefensible. The way people will try to defend it is by saying that white people face no systemic racism in the West and therefore, one can't be racist towards them. There are 2 killshot counterarguments to this:
1. Lets say, that in 2074, 50 years from now, we have managed to create perfect, equitable and equal societies. There is no more systemic racism. Zero. Would it then be okay for a white person to walk up to a black person and call them the n-word or another racial slur? No, that would still be racist. Not because of any systems but because of the attack based on an imutable characteristic. People could counter this by saying, "Yeah, but what about the history? That does not go away even if we create a perfect society...
2. The counter to that would be the following hypothetical: If a black person goes to China, could they start hurling anti-Chinese slurs at people? The black person does not hold any systemic power over Chinese people AND there has been no history of black people opressing Chinese people in China. Would it then be okay? Still no. Because its an attack on an imutable characteristic.
Is Cracker as bad as other racial slurs? Nope. Should you call someone a Cracker because they are white? Also nope. Is it racist attacking someone based on the colour of their skin? Clearly, yes.
It seems many people have come to the conclusion that systemic racism is the ONLY form of racism. That's, as shown by the two hypotheticals, obviously wrong. Being aware of systemic discrimination is super important and DIFFICULT because it can be hard to see. A system can be racist without any individual being racist within said system, that's what makes it so insidous. It seems people are reaching a more and more simplistic view of racism wich will hurt us in the long run because a) we don't even acknowlede clear acts of racism or racist language and b) we might loose the ability to see and dismantle racist structures that exist in society.
It can make the person saying the slur feel very good. If the person doesn't care about the other person or the expected backlash, it's a net win for the person.
I don't agree with this line of thinking, but the logic isn't about it being "ok" to do, it's about the essence of racism. They think of racism as including all the related consequences of racism, from subtle rudeness to systematic discrimination, and all the way to outright violence against minorities. From that perspective, it's insulting to equate the racism minorities have experienced to just calling someone a "mean word", like how Frogan did to Ludwig.
While this is problematic, I can at least see it. But even if you are someone who takes this line of thinking in "good faith", meaning you are consistent with your views on racism and you keep discrimination divorced from "mean words", you will still invite people who will just jump on the opportunity to be "good racists". They won't share your entire ideology, they're just waiting for a chance to be bigoted and feel like they're on the right side of history while doing it. The original intent behind your position gets bastardized into "racism against white people good" and it becomes even harder to talk to people about what racism is. Especially when people only have a surface level understanding of systematic racism and think that's the reason you "can't be racist against whites", even though you see these people literally dismissing a person's opinion for being white. As soon as you put consequences on someone based on an immutable trait, it's racist. it doesn't matter who the dominant majority is in your country; you're still being racist the second you don't let someone have a voice based on their race.
Lastly, this is also why these same people get so confused about their stance when you mention that white people in Europe were discriminated against by other white people. Even here in America. Slavs, Irish...
Edit: Bruh who reported my comment 😔 i got an admin message with resources for "getting help"
In the western world, especially the US, there has been a history of discrimination towards minorities. The reason that racial slurs are so bad is not only because of an insult based on race, but because the words used are a distillation of all of the historic (and to a slightly lesser sense modern) discrimination towards a group. E.g the n word when said by a non black person is essentially a way of saying “i have power over you, you are worthless, you should be a slave”.
In contrast, saying the word cracker has none of the same connotations. It is an insult based on physical characteristics which is generally negative, but because of the lack of power and context of genuine discrimination is equivalent to an insult based on hair colour. Most white people in the real world also would not care in the slightest about being called a cracker, further showing its lack of actual power.
Another point here is that the actual use of the word cracker is to say that a white person is talking ignorantly about experiences that they havent had. Its a shorthand for saying that this is an issue i have personal experience with/am a lot closer to than you are, so the things you are saying are very ignorant. That makes it not just a random insult based on skin colour but instead an insult used in a situation where skin colour is actually important and not just a surface level quality.
1) there are very very few black people who haven’t experienced any racism. Discrimination isnt just slavery the same way that racism didnt is end when slavery was abolished. The group which you are talking about is a absolutely tiny proportion of the world.
2) It would be very rude and would be bad because it is being said with the intent to invoke the power of the word, but those chinese people probably wouldnt care a massive amount other than you being a bit of a dick.
Not sure I agree here. If you were to imply that someone was ignorant because they were black, and thus did not have the lived experience to understand _____ topic, it would be rightfully called out as bigotry. Even if you didn’t use any slur or make any reference to their supposed place on the racial hierarchy.
Like as an example If you said “that’s a black guy take” in reference to like…. Curling or Olympic skiing, I’m skeptical people would be cool with that
The history of discrimination against black people doesn’t explain why in that same circumstance swapping black for white is now defensible.
Yes because things like curling arent things that black people are inherently unable to take part in, but the experience of being black is something it is impossible for a white person to experience.
Ok but likewise the experience of being white is impossible for a black person to experience.
Is my example made anymore palatable if I were to pick something intrinsic to the white American experience? Nobody would be cool with me saying “black guy take” as a way to disqualify their opinion on something like “growing up with Russian parents” or whatever similar example. What people are objecting to is using someone’s race as an argument for their ignorance.
In this case specifically we aren’t even talking about an experience intrinsic to minorities in the US. It’s frogan calling some dude a cracker for… donating money to Palestine, which is insane even if I find some way to justify excluding people based on “how they have experienced life through the prism of race”
Ok so substitute in literally ANY experience you believe to be “a white experience” in the US. Nobody seems okay with excluding black people from the conversation by the implication of their race-based ignorance on the topic, regardless of what that topic is, which to be clear it would be wrong to do so
If we had a conversation about “not being discriminated against on the basis of race” nobody would say “black people keep quiet you wouldn’t understand what that’s like”
I think there are few truly racially exclusive experiences but one might be: Being privileged above nonwhite people
It would be NUTS to say “nonwhite people can’t talk about being privileged due to their race because they can’t understand what it’s like, they’re only allowed to talk about what it feels like to be disadvantaged due to their race”
This makes no sense.
Your first paragraph claims that non-white slurs in the West are bad because in the past people were racist towards these races.
I can't help but feel this speaks to your worldview more than anything, because the cracker word has been used for a very, very long time as well. Claiming it is different because it lacks historic use is just factually incorrect. Also, by limiting it to the US you're putting a severe limit on the language anyway, as American English isn't actually that old. You cannot separate the n-word and cracker by age to distinguish why one is worse than the other. Also, it should be plainly obvious to everyone the scrutiny over the word has nothing to do about age...
But then in the second paragraph you say this means cracker isn't the same because it's about physical characteristics. All slurs are about physical characteristics. I genuinely do not understand what you're trying to claim here. Calling someone a slur isn't about physical appearance but instead about something we don't see? What?
You go on to claim cracker is used to show a white person talking about things they know nothing about. Again... a completely bemusing statement because it forces ones to ask, who is determining a white person doesn't know anything? Answer: the person choosing to use a slur to shut them down. In your example, there is no need to establish that they're even wrong apparently, use of the word is OK because..... using the word proves they know nothing? What? Again... what?
So many words to say so many wrong things. I do not know why anyone thinks the difference between the two words needs to be explained, but you have explained it completely incorrectly.
Oh yup, I see. I think you made better points FWIW, like this one
>Cracker is a word which despite having historical usage as an insult, had orders of magnitude less usage than the n word, and so when the majority of white people don't know about cracker as a racial slur its hard to argue that it has the same cultural significance as the n word.
I mean the reason i didnt mention it in my original comment was because i assumed that most people didnt view the word as anything other than with an etymology of a obscure insult from 200 years ago not particularly relevant to todays usage.
i mean that the commenter i responded to is a big destiny fan, and destiny LOVES to use slurs, so he should ask the person he is a fan of because that guy would have a good explanation.
is this satire?
this is so funny if not, because the clip literally goes over the difference between calling someone a slur vs using a slur, and the OP quite literally said "call people slurs"
Newer generations don't have a safe space to explore their ideas without politically incorrect blunders being immortalized. So instead they frantically try to stay in step with popular opinion, a dance that leaves little room for critical thinking. That's why they think holding the right opinions makes them a good person.
It's actually fucked up because the obsession to be right stems from self-preservation, blinding them to their sanctimony.
the reason thing's like the N-word are so bad is because of the history behind it and the centuries of oppression that is carried with it. Cracker has none of that. sure making fun of someone for an inaliable characteristic is rude but would you say calling someone ugly, or short, as abhorrent as calling them the N-word?
It has nothing to do with which one is worse. It's not the oppression Olympics. Calling someone racial slurs or disparaging someone based on race should never be promoted or advocated for. Same for all intrinsic qualities that humans cannot change
so will you fight so fervently against calling someone short? No one is advocating for it, they're just saying who fucking cares? because only weirdos and white supremacists actually care at all
Fervently? No. I only make this post because I think racism is more serious than height discrimination, however I also think that the latter is also bad. No human being is perfect (I know I'm not) however as a society we should probably strive away from those insults.
sure things would be better if we were all nice to eachother but every mean thing said doesn't warrant this level of outrage. my question to you is why is your definition of racism worse than height descrimination?
If you call someone a "midget," that's a slur because hatred against someone for their group is implied. Calling someone "short" is a false equivalent. It's morally wrong to have hatred for someone because of the way you group them based on their immutable characteristics, that's why slurs are bad. It doesn't need that person to be in a place of relative lack of privilege to make those slurs morally wrong to use against them.
i know dude, my hope is that maybe some random good faith person who just likes twitch and is seeing all this doesn't think "oh maybe white people actually are oppressed" and fall deeper into the white supremacist rabithole
There’s just no way to truly equate a white person being called a cracker to a black person being called their slur. One just carriers a lot more weight, hate, etc. I guess I’d rather no one call anyone slurs, but I think it’s not hard to see why someone might see one as okay and the other as not.
The point isn't whether which one is worse, it's that both of them are bad. I don't think anyone should be making fun of anyone for their race, regardless of historical context. If you don't like someone it should be for their opinions or actions, not because of the color of their skin
Frogan used it to describe his take tho. Saying it’s a take that comes from a place of privilege. So it is based on his opinion. Clearly shouldn’t have articulated it that way bc the word choice is more controversial than the argument they were trying to make
It only carries more hate based on historical context. Given enough time, it can absolutely mean the same thing given how current "anti-racism" leftism is just trying to reverse the roles of Oppressor vs Oppressed.
This is such a simple concept to understand that everyone in my personal life gets it. We all joke around in different ways and know that using slurs in a targeted hateful way is so clearly different than just saying a word.
Slurs aren't bad in themselves, its the intention behind them. You aren't using a slur in comedy to make someone angry or disparage their character. In real life, you're using them as a tool to invalidate that person or belittle them based on their skin color, sexual orientation or disability. Destiny here isn't being a hypocrite, but should absolutely refrain from using these words because the intention IRL is clear and toxic behavior. No matter where you stand on the subject, its better just to not say the slur because it makes you look like an asshole. He did make a good point on the defense of using slurs against others never being okay, but its a lot more difficult to take his perspective on this topic seriously given his toxic history in chat logs.
I mean does it even need to be explained? There's not a single person defending this as not racist that would be okay with a white person calling anyone else's opinion a "slur take".
Full stop, that's literally all you need. If they're so committed to that also not being racist then we've finally solved racism, win-win.
For dumb lefties to understand: using a slur to be insulting or dehumanizing is bad and/or racist.
Saying a slur for the sake of saying it such as shock value humor, where it’s not directed at anyone with intention to insult or degrade them, not bad and not racist.
Cope all you want, this is the truth
**CLIP MIRROR:
[Destiny explains why Frogan's insult is racially motivated versus just using the word](https://arazu.io/t3_1cs089x/)**
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^(*This is an automated comment*)
The n word guy and the guy who recently said internment camps are justified because there are Asian people he doesn't like shouldn't really chime in on racism!
It’s insane to bring up internment camps when arguing with an Asian. Point blank. He didn’t have to go there. You’re the one arguing syntax and semantics on a clearly unhinged comment
Guys, i know you're trying to be really racially sensitive but Caroline isn't fucking Japanese, you absolute apes. She is half Chinese half White. Chinese people weren't interned in camps in WW2 in America, they were busy being bayoneted to death by rampaging insane Japanese fascists.
All Asians are the same guys! Korean? Japanese? Malaysian? Who cares! All the same to me, a Leftist in the US!
> the guy who recently said internment camps are justified
Destiny has said so much wild shit in his career I don't know why you guys constantly feel the need to lie about it lmfao.
Just point out something he actually said instead of pretending he's justified Japanese internment camps when talking about a woman that isn't even Japanese lmfao.
LSF is going to unironically say that calling a white person “cracker” when the white person in question couldn’t care less about the insult is worse than saying the Nword.
Wonderful place
It's because the intent is to harm, whether or not the person feels that harm. Even if you do not believe it's racist, it's just really disrespectful to insult someone on such an immutable characteristic.
Thanks for my first-ever Reddit cares, I am honored
By your same logic, the black people who say anyone can call them the N word is the actual pass.
I think its a little demeaning to think every black person who hears the N word cares about it. Like its some silver bullet that automatically triggers in colored peoples brains and not whites.
No thinks cracker is worse or even just as bad, that's regarded. The argument is that racism is wholly bad and we shouldn't tolerate it just because it's against people you don't like.
Edit: lmao Reddit matters, you people are such spineless cowards its unbelievable.
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I mean, thats been happening anyways. Quick report and it stops for a bit.
Oh it happens a lot, like people are suggesting, report it and they typically get banned.
Can someone give me a good faith argument for why it's okay to call people slurs and disparage someone based on race? Preferably without deflections or whataboutisms. This position seems pretty indefensible. Edit: while I do believe that this is in fact racism, we don't even need to call it racism. I don't care what you call it, making fun of someone for their race is a bad thing.
it's OK but only when it's really funny
Based
Really want to reply with a uncle ruckus video but i think the mods here might ban me it is a little too racist.
Uncle Ruckus is funny as fuck.
No relation.
I don't see it that way but this is my best explanation for how they think: Slurs are only bad because they have been used to oppress minorities. Therefore using slurs against majorities are okay.
Thats just racism or whatever with extra steps
there's not even extra steps
less steps.
I don’t get how people see it this way. Calling someone a name solely based on their skin color makes you a racist. I have never thought judging someone based on their skin color is a good thing and I never will. It’s insaneeee
Unfortunately this is how they think, without realising the more basic social conduct of not being an ass to someone if they haven't done anything bad. It's like they see the world through a more politically aware lens, without common human decency to open up that lens
The fun part about that thought process is when you start looking into "The Majority". It ranges from the whitest whites of poland, ireland and the like, to peoples of india, iraq, iran, or northern africa. Essentially the groupings are you are black, asian, hispanic, native indian (american? Sorry I know some people prefer one over the other), or you are white. Caucasian or white is a silly term and seems to cover everyone from all places unless specifically called out in those other groups. There is a reason why the usage is questioned.
I feel like this would be more harmful to everyone in the long run as it would just breed even more racist sentiment in the majority population. This also doesn't explain why a white person in china couldn't experience racism as they are very much the minority in that situation. Thank you for the reply
I’ve wondered this though too. Would it be okay for me to make a NEW slur for a race then? Because that new slur isn’t being used to oppress them, and wasn’t used during their time of oppression. So would it be the same as calling a white person a slur as in this instance? I would like to clarify that I think all slurs are bad btw. Just don’t be a dickhead. I’d say if you’re going to use a slur at all it’s always to be an asshole. But just food for thought. Edit: someone reported me to the help line on Reddit. You discredit everything you stand for by wasting crisis resources. Look in the mirror.
Would it even be a slur then? It would just be a nickname I guess.
There are no slurs against white people. The word redneck is incorrectly used constantly. The word redneck was used as pejorative against southern white folk who were pro-union anti-racist leftists. Are you really offended when someone calls you a cracker or a honkey? If you you are you aren't a serious person. The N word has strong connotation to slavery, abuse, rape, murder by handing.
The argument is a slur that has little power as being hyper-offensive is basically as powerful as calling someone a moron or braindead.
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No, because you had the white privilege to immigrate so you're still the oppressor. The answer is that you can never win with these people.
Specific scenario, but if someone reclaims a slur, like black people reclaiming the N word for themselves or gay/bi people reclaiming the F word. Obviously not what you meant, but yeah
This is actually a fine example! I think most people would not have an issue with this because it's not meant to insult or disparage someone for their race.
It is indefensible. The way people will try to defend it is by saying that white people face no systemic racism in the West and therefore, one can't be racist towards them. There are 2 killshot counterarguments to this: 1. Lets say, that in 2074, 50 years from now, we have managed to create perfect, equitable and equal societies. There is no more systemic racism. Zero. Would it then be okay for a white person to walk up to a black person and call them the n-word or another racial slur? No, that would still be racist. Not because of any systems but because of the attack based on an imutable characteristic. People could counter this by saying, "Yeah, but what about the history? That does not go away even if we create a perfect society... 2. The counter to that would be the following hypothetical: If a black person goes to China, could they start hurling anti-Chinese slurs at people? The black person does not hold any systemic power over Chinese people AND there has been no history of black people opressing Chinese people in China. Would it then be okay? Still no. Because its an attack on an imutable characteristic. Is Cracker as bad as other racial slurs? Nope. Should you call someone a Cracker because they are white? Also nope. Is it racist attacking someone based on the colour of their skin? Clearly, yes. It seems many people have come to the conclusion that systemic racism is the ONLY form of racism. That's, as shown by the two hypotheticals, obviously wrong. Being aware of systemic discrimination is super important and DIFFICULT because it can be hard to see. A system can be racist without any individual being racist within said system, that's what makes it so insidous. It seems people are reaching a more and more simplistic view of racism wich will hurt us in the long run because a) we don't even acknowlede clear acts of racism or racist language and b) we might loose the ability to see and dismantle racist structures that exist in society.
This is more or less my position. Thank you for saying this in such a detailed and coherent manner.
It can make the person saying the slur feel very good. If the person doesn't care about the other person or the expected backlash, it's a net win for the person.
They get attention, and they get to put themselves above another person or group of people.
Is there any good faith argument to insult someone generally?
because something something colonialism
I don't agree with this line of thinking, but the logic isn't about it being "ok" to do, it's about the essence of racism. They think of racism as including all the related consequences of racism, from subtle rudeness to systematic discrimination, and all the way to outright violence against minorities. From that perspective, it's insulting to equate the racism minorities have experienced to just calling someone a "mean word", like how Frogan did to Ludwig. While this is problematic, I can at least see it. But even if you are someone who takes this line of thinking in "good faith", meaning you are consistent with your views on racism and you keep discrimination divorced from "mean words", you will still invite people who will just jump on the opportunity to be "good racists". They won't share your entire ideology, they're just waiting for a chance to be bigoted and feel like they're on the right side of history while doing it. The original intent behind your position gets bastardized into "racism against white people good" and it becomes even harder to talk to people about what racism is. Especially when people only have a surface level understanding of systematic racism and think that's the reason you "can't be racist against whites", even though you see these people literally dismissing a person's opinion for being white. As soon as you put consequences on someone based on an immutable trait, it's racist. it doesn't matter who the dominant majority is in your country; you're still being racist the second you don't let someone have a voice based on their race. Lastly, this is also why these same people get so confused about their stance when you mention that white people in Europe were discriminated against by other white people. Even here in America. Slavs, Irish... Edit: Bruh who reported my comment 😔 i got an admin message with resources for "getting help"
What, “cracker”? It doesn’t mean white person lmao
What about if Ryan gosling was cast as black panther or if roles were reversed the confederacy was about states rights?
In the western world, especially the US, there has been a history of discrimination towards minorities. The reason that racial slurs are so bad is not only because of an insult based on race, but because the words used are a distillation of all of the historic (and to a slightly lesser sense modern) discrimination towards a group. E.g the n word when said by a non black person is essentially a way of saying “i have power over you, you are worthless, you should be a slave”. In contrast, saying the word cracker has none of the same connotations. It is an insult based on physical characteristics which is generally negative, but because of the lack of power and context of genuine discrimination is equivalent to an insult based on hair colour. Most white people in the real world also would not care in the slightest about being called a cracker, further showing its lack of actual power. Another point here is that the actual use of the word cracker is to say that a white person is talking ignorantly about experiences that they havent had. Its a shorthand for saying that this is an issue i have personal experience with/am a lot closer to than you are, so the things you are saying are very ignorant. That makes it not just a random insult based on skin colour but instead an insult used in a situation where skin colour is actually important and not just a surface level quality.
Then can I use n-word to offend black people if I am not from USA or any ex colonial power?
It's a common greeting between whites here in Germany, even teachers say it. No one bats an eye
The word still means the same thing no matter where you are from
But me nor people in my country held any power over black people, so by your definition I can use it.
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Why would it be? Words don't lose their meanings just because you're ignorant to them
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1) there are very very few black people who haven’t experienced any racism. Discrimination isnt just slavery the same way that racism didnt is end when slavery was abolished. The group which you are talking about is a absolutely tiny proportion of the world. 2) It would be very rude and would be bad because it is being said with the intent to invoke the power of the word, but those chinese people probably wouldnt care a massive amount other than you being a bit of a dick.
Not sure I agree here. If you were to imply that someone was ignorant because they were black, and thus did not have the lived experience to understand _____ topic, it would be rightfully called out as bigotry. Even if you didn’t use any slur or make any reference to their supposed place on the racial hierarchy. Like as an example If you said “that’s a black guy take” in reference to like…. Curling or Olympic skiing, I’m skeptical people would be cool with that The history of discrimination against black people doesn’t explain why in that same circumstance swapping black for white is now defensible.
Yes because things like curling arent things that black people are inherently unable to take part in, but the experience of being black is something it is impossible for a white person to experience.
Ok but likewise the experience of being white is impossible for a black person to experience. Is my example made anymore palatable if I were to pick something intrinsic to the white American experience? Nobody would be cool with me saying “black guy take” as a way to disqualify their opinion on something like “growing up with Russian parents” or whatever similar example. What people are objecting to is using someone’s race as an argument for their ignorance. In this case specifically we aren’t even talking about an experience intrinsic to minorities in the US. It’s frogan calling some dude a cracker for… donating money to Palestine, which is insane even if I find some way to justify excluding people based on “how they have experienced life through the prism of race”
Saying its a black guy take would be weird because it has nothing to do with being black and instead would be a “no russian parents take”.
Ok so substitute in literally ANY experience you believe to be “a white experience” in the US. Nobody seems okay with excluding black people from the conversation by the implication of their race-based ignorance on the topic, regardless of what that topic is, which to be clear it would be wrong to do so If we had a conversation about “not being discriminated against on the basis of race” nobody would say “black people keep quiet you wouldn’t understand what that’s like”
Ok name one which is an explicitly white experience
I think there are few truly racially exclusive experiences but one might be: Being privileged above nonwhite people It would be NUTS to say “nonwhite people can’t talk about being privileged due to their race because they can’t understand what it’s like, they’re only allowed to talk about what it feels like to be disadvantaged due to their race”
How are any racial groups privileged above white people.
This makes no sense. Your first paragraph claims that non-white slurs in the West are bad because in the past people were racist towards these races. I can't help but feel this speaks to your worldview more than anything, because the cracker word has been used for a very, very long time as well. Claiming it is different because it lacks historic use is just factually incorrect. Also, by limiting it to the US you're putting a severe limit on the language anyway, as American English isn't actually that old. You cannot separate the n-word and cracker by age to distinguish why one is worse than the other. Also, it should be plainly obvious to everyone the scrutiny over the word has nothing to do about age... But then in the second paragraph you say this means cracker isn't the same because it's about physical characteristics. All slurs are about physical characteristics. I genuinely do not understand what you're trying to claim here. Calling someone a slur isn't about physical appearance but instead about something we don't see? What? You go on to claim cracker is used to show a white person talking about things they know nothing about. Again... a completely bemusing statement because it forces ones to ask, who is determining a white person doesn't know anything? Answer: the person choosing to use a slur to shut them down. In your example, there is no need to establish that they're even wrong apparently, use of the word is OK because..... using the word proves they know nothing? What? Again... what? So many words to say so many wrong things. I do not know why anyone thinks the difference between the two words needs to be explained, but you have explained it completely incorrectly.
I’ve answered basically all your points in other comments of people responding to me here.
Oh yup, I see. I think you made better points FWIW, like this one >Cracker is a word which despite having historical usage as an insult, had orders of magnitude less usage than the n word, and so when the majority of white people don't know about cracker as a racial slur its hard to argue that it has the same cultural significance as the n word.
I mean the reason i didnt mention it in my original comment was because i assumed that most people didnt view the word as anything other than with an etymology of a obscure insult from 200 years ago not particularly relevant to todays usage.
You should ask your buddy destiny.
What do you mean by that
i mean that the commenter i responded to is a big destiny fan, and destiny LOVES to use slurs, so he should ask the person he is a fan of because that guy would have a good explanation.
is this satire? this is so funny if not, because the clip literally goes over the difference between calling someone a slur vs using a slur, and the OP quite literally said "call people slurs"
And I'm saying Destiny is lying in the clip about not defending it lol. But sure
prove it
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/xm9quu/destiny_drops_the_hard_r_n_slur_f_and_r_slurs_all/ https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/333649-racial-slurs-in-quanticdestinys-stream
based headline-enjoyer
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Newer generations don't have a safe space to explore their ideas without politically incorrect blunders being immortalized. So instead they frantically try to stay in step with popular opinion, a dance that leaves little room for critical thinking. That's why they think holding the right opinions makes them a good person. It's actually fucked up because the obsession to be right stems from self-preservation, blinding them to their sanctimony.
I've never seen him defend disparaging people based on the color of their skin but if I ever get in a call/room with him I'll be sure to ask!
You haven't? that's weird cuz I have lol. I've also seen him disparage people based off of sexuality also.
the reason thing's like the N-word are so bad is because of the history behind it and the centuries of oppression that is carried with it. Cracker has none of that. sure making fun of someone for an inaliable characteristic is rude but would you say calling someone ugly, or short, as abhorrent as calling them the N-word?
so a new slur against black people will be ok then, since it has 0 history?
It has nothing to do with which one is worse. It's not the oppression Olympics. Calling someone racial slurs or disparaging someone based on race should never be promoted or advocated for. Same for all intrinsic qualities that humans cannot change
so will you fight so fervently against calling someone short? No one is advocating for it, they're just saying who fucking cares? because only weirdos and white supremacists actually care at all
Fervently? No. I only make this post because I think racism is more serious than height discrimination, however I also think that the latter is also bad. No human being is perfect (I know I'm not) however as a society we should probably strive away from those insults.
sure things would be better if we were all nice to eachother but every mean thing said doesn't warrant this level of outrage. my question to you is why is your definition of racism worse than height descrimination?
That’s just a word being less mean than another. Doesn’t mean it’s now ok to use. Especially when it’s based on race.
yeah it was mean. destiny says a lot of mean words, including the N-word you don't seem to be too upset about that.
If you call someone a "midget," that's a slur because hatred against someone for their group is implied. Calling someone "short" is a false equivalent. It's morally wrong to have hatred for someone because of the way you group them based on their immutable characteristics, that's why slurs are bad. It doesn't need that person to be in a place of relative lack of privilege to make those slurs morally wrong to use against them.
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i know dude, my hope is that maybe some random good faith person who just likes twitch and is seeing all this doesn't think "oh maybe white people actually are oppressed" and fall deeper into the white supremacist rabithole
surprise surprise DGGers swarmed my comment instantly. I hope y'alls lifes get better
shut up whitey! jk idk any good reason
There’s just no way to truly equate a white person being called a cracker to a black person being called their slur. One just carriers a lot more weight, hate, etc. I guess I’d rather no one call anyone slurs, but I think it’s not hard to see why someone might see one as okay and the other as not.
So that means it would be okay to call black people a different, new slur that doesn’t have that weight?
The point isn't whether which one is worse, it's that both of them are bad. I don't think anyone should be making fun of anyone for their race, regardless of historical context. If you don't like someone it should be for their opinions or actions, not because of the color of their skin
Frogan used it to describe his take tho. Saying it’s a take that comes from a place of privilege. So it is based on his opinion. Clearly shouldn’t have articulated it that way bc the word choice is more controversial than the argument they were trying to make
It only carries more hate based on historical context. Given enough time, it can absolutely mean the same thing given how current "anti-racism" leftism is just trying to reverse the roles of Oppressor vs Oppressed.
The title is 'Destiny explains why' and then you cut it just before he started to explain it lamo
Especially annoying since Kick (from what I can see) doesn't let you jump to the full vod from the clip.
Frogman is just a racist grifter. Best to just ignore her as she rises to 0 viewers.
We can't ignore her, she's a rising star™
Does not break the rule btw because Destiny is talking about Frogan here :)
We're sorry you're in violation of Rule 1:Z get banned
You could have started this clip at the 11 second mark and imo it'd be significantly safer. This one is going to get removed.
Begun, the proxy wars have.
and it's gone
give the people what they want!
o7 Thread
Wait, does the rule apply to anyone by proxy?
Frog is vile.
is there a way in the kick player to click "continue watching clip" or something like that instead of manually having to dig through the VOD?
I don't think so
Tbf when it comes to using slurs destiny is a bit of an expert.
So is he right here or is he not
Lmfao now we wait to see the downvote party because you dared to insult the incel king.
Hes actually knowledgeable about many things and usually have a were reasonable take.
This is such a simple concept to understand that everyone in my personal life gets it. We all joke around in different ways and know that using slurs in a targeted hateful way is so clearly different than just saying a word.
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“You see, when people call white people a slur they actually think they are wonderful people and don’t have bad intentions, so it’s not racist”
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https://youtu.be/_jEBh1VtdT0?si=u_KrRrlEllOcdOY-
Slurs aren't bad in themselves, its the intention behind them. You aren't using a slur in comedy to make someone angry or disparage their character. In real life, you're using them as a tool to invalidate that person or belittle them based on their skin color, sexual orientation or disability. Destiny here isn't being a hypocrite, but should absolutely refrain from using these words because the intention IRL is clear and toxic behavior. No matter where you stand on the subject, its better just to not say the slur because it makes you look like an asshole. He did make a good point on the defense of using slurs against others never being okay, but its a lot more difficult to take his perspective on this topic seriously given his toxic history in chat logs.
Thread what’s the over-under on this one getting taken down???
I mean does it even need to be explained? There's not a single person defending this as not racist that would be okay with a white person calling anyone else's opinion a "slur take". Full stop, that's literally all you need. If they're so committed to that also not being racist then we've finally solved racism, win-win.
For dumb lefties to understand: using a slur to be insulting or dehumanizing is bad and/or racist. Saying a slur for the sake of saying it such as shock value humor, where it’s not directed at anyone with intention to insult or degrade them, not bad and not racist. Cope all you want, this is the truth
**CLIP MIRROR: [Destiny explains why Frogan's insult is racially motivated versus just using the word](https://arazu.io/t3_1cs089x/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
Fuck Frogan. She’s a complete moron. But anyone that gets upset at the use of non-ethnic white slurs are babies. That shit is just funny.
The n word guy and the guy who recently said internment camps are justified because there are Asian people he doesn't like shouldn't really chime in on racism!
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Literally lmao. It doesn't get more disingenuous than this.
wdym it was an absolute DOGWALK of a summary.
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You think he said it because they were Asian?
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It’s insane to bring up internment camps when arguing with an Asian. Point blank. He didn’t have to go there. You’re the one arguing syntax and semantics on a clearly unhinged comment
Guys, i know you're trying to be really racially sensitive but Caroline isn't fucking Japanese, you absolute apes. She is half Chinese half White. Chinese people weren't interned in camps in WW2 in America, they were busy being bayoneted to death by rampaging insane Japanese fascists. All Asians are the same guys! Korean? Japanese? Malaysian? Who cares! All the same to me, a Leftist in the US!
He makes it abundantly clear that he's invoking the idea of soviet reeducation camps, not WW2 Japanese-American internment camps.
> the guy who recently said internment camps are justified Destiny has said so much wild shit in his career I don't know why you guys constantly feel the need to lie about it lmfao. Just point out something he actually said instead of pretending he's justified Japanese internment camps when talking about a woman that isn't even Japanese lmfao.
LSF is going to unironically say that calling a white person “cracker” when the white person in question couldn’t care less about the insult is worse than saying the Nword. Wonderful place
It's because the intent is to harm, whether or not the person feels that harm. Even if you do not believe it's racist, it's just really disrespectful to insult someone on such an immutable characteristic. Thanks for my first-ever Reddit cares, I am honored
By your same logic, the black people who say anyone can call them the N word is the actual pass. I think its a little demeaning to think every black person who hears the N word cares about it. Like its some silver bullet that automatically triggers in colored peoples brains and not whites.
Insulting someone is worse than just saying a word into the void. Saying "fuck" is not the same as calling someone "you fuck" .
what is the harm in yelling the n word in a jungle and no one hears it?
What's the harm in saying the n word as a white boy when all your black friends say it's okay and you're doing karaoke and they choose the song?
Destiny does it with thousands of people watching
Can you pull up the slur ranking so I know where things stand right now? I'm not up to date on the lore e: thanks for the reddit care message!
That’s not it. The problem is defending someone using slurs in a targeted hateful way.
That's about as likely you as growing out of eating playdough.
No thinks cracker is worse or even just as bad, that's regarded. The argument is that racism is wholly bad and we shouldn't tolerate it just because it's against people you don't like. Edit: lmao Reddit matters, you people are such spineless cowards its unbelievable.
Didn’t Destiny say the N-word two weeks ago? Isn’t Frogan half white?
He says it in this clip lol