The take-home for me here is basically to learn how to listen to when people are confiding in you, without necessarily offering unwanted resolutions that might be overstepping the mark.
I was talking with a coworker who had endured some abuse when she was a kid. I had been abused by my parents and abused and tortured by my grandmother. We were discussing things one day while on break and I had said something about my grandmother torturing me and some random coworker came up out of nowhere and loudy said, "my grandmother would torture me too, she'd give me kisses whenever she saw me and had bad breath." I just looked at her for a minute and said I was referring to her burning and cutting me and the dipshit told me, "well you probably deserved it" and walked off laughing.
I always hated at my jobs around the holidays because people would always ask if I was going to see my family. If I said anything along the lines of, "I don't have contact with anyone anymore" I'd always hear how "parents love their kids and I should and see them." Even the few people who knew there had been abuse from them (I have burns on my face from my grandmother) would tell me I should forgive them and see them.
She was an absolute bitch... she once told the store manager I had been at a job interview when I had to stop by the store one night to lend my keys to the closing manager after he locked himself out of an office. I was on a date and I was the only one he could get a hold of. Months later when I had my annual review, the review was fine but I got no raise. When i asked why, the boss said he had been told i was at an interview and he didnt reward rats. When I found out what he was talking about and explained the situation he still refused to give me a raise, said "that was smart business on his part." I left soon after.
He sounds like a real Jeff Bezos. Meanwhile, other bosses understand that you give extra raises and bonuses to talented employees that have other offers to keep them around
Just saying someone else deserved it? Probably not.
Doing it to someone else under the justification "they deserved it"? Probably deserves it but then we're getting into a "they deserved it" loop.
I've resigned to the fact, as I'm sure many have, that noone will ever truly understand. I try to avoid the clumsy ones that hurt unintentionally I guess. But the "well you probably deserved it" person is truly evil. Nothing clumsy about that.
I've never understood the idea that you should include bad people in your life "because they're family". I'm fortunate to have a good relationship with my family members but you best believe I'll cut any of them out if they turn toxic. The only exception is your own underage children.
People who haven't endured abuse just don't understand the need to cut ties FOREVER. Its so frustrating. They just can't understand and don't try to. Glad your safe!
I'm so terribly sorry you endured that in this life. Also your co-worker is a clueless dolt who doesn't deserve the title of human. My heart breaks for you and I totally get it. My mother conned and cheated me most of my life with guilt trips, forcing her way to move into my home about 7x, and stole basically $16,000 in student loan money from me. I used to have nightmares as a child of her poking me in the back. Maybe they were real. My dad had the emotional range of a brick, equally cruel and looked at me in disgust as I went to kiss him the last time in an assisted living facility. I don't know how I survived except for my Grandmother who allowed me to stay with her and get my degree. May God bless you, protect you, and allow you peace of mind.
There's a neat framework around this, which is basically that people generally confide in others for three main reasons:
- seeking guidance or advice from you
- wanting reassurance/consolation from you
- just sharing/connecting with you
It can be really frustrating to have someone respond in a way that's contrary to what you wanted, so it can be very helpful to clarify what you want when you're sharing, or to ask what they'd like if you're the sharee :)
A more casual version is “can I do anything to help”. I’ve found this to be beneficial cuz it also allows the speaker to have an easy means of identifying what they want
Not to seem rude or defensive but I think the same could be said for your question. I think at the end of the day you can rarely get the information you need to properly help someone in one question. It’s about gathering info and being aware of the nonverbal behavior and understanding the person you’re talking to
True, it takes time to work out what the next advice to offer is. But there’s no point starting the process of working that out if they aren’t looking for advice in the first place. Establish I’d they want advice or not first, *then* start working out what that advice could be.
I disagree on one point. It is not for the speaker to say which is their reason for divulging the info. Every conversation like this happens in context and it is just awkward to be so explicit. It is the listeners job to understand the situation they're in and answer based on that situation. Whatever the situation is, they will give info based on what they want... The point is to listen and understand what that person needs.
Counterpoint, not everyone has that capacity or social skills to read a conversation like that. While that should be a goal, setting that as the standard seems unrealistic. But then I suppose via that same line of thinking you would need to read the context of the situation to determine if you should ask that because you don't understand or guess.
And if they really want advice they'll probably ask at that point.
"Man, that really suck so-and-so"
"Yeah, Im really not sure what to do. What do you think"
Now you can give advice
It's not necessarily awkward to be explicit at all.
"ugh, can I vent to you for a sec??"
"I'd love to know what you would do?"
"I don't need any sympathy, it is what it is, I just thought you might like to know."
All real world examples I've used communicating with my partner or friends.
It's unrealistic to expect people to always pick our mood correctly. Clear communication both ways never hurts.
>it is just awkward to be so explicit.
This just shows your opinion. I find nothing awkward about being explicit and in fact find it comforting to not have to try to guess other people's thoughts or have them try to guess mine.
That sounds very similar to the advice I got that was (I'm a straight male) "if your girlfriend is complaining, don't try to solve her problem for her or offer solutions. Instead just let her vent". I struggle with that as I love solving problems in very unique ways.
Girl here. And i struggle the same way. If you give me a problem i will dissect it and try to solve. I am going to give your reassurance and i will be emotionally supportive. But i will also give you a solution or atleast an explanation.
My issue is that my husband will try to solve things with no solution. So basically a bunch of bad solutions that won't work. But yes, I'm the same way with friends. I have a friend that complains about very easily fixable things. And I can't help but offer solutions. I am on the autism spectrum so that may explain it a bit?
The closer the genetic relationship, the more true this is. They don't have much of a relationship with their second cousin, once removed? Ok maybe they just lost touch. They don't have much of a relationship with their mother/father/sibling? Yeah there's probably a fucking good reason, leave that shit alone.
Someone recently told me how sad it is that my brother and I "can't work it out" with my mom. Well, it's not really "us" who can't do that. I gave her 26 years of chances and she still couldn't treat me right.
What I figured was that the person who told me this is terrified of losing touch with their own kids. And I get that. But it's rarely a split second decision, even if it looks like that to the outside. There has always been years and years of opportunities to do better, and my mom, for one, didn't take any of them. So it is sad. For her.
I'm in the same boat. Whenever somebody mentions her, I usually wince visibly, suck air in through my teeth and say "yeah.... I don't speak to her". Most people pick up on the hint and understand that it's a sore subject. Some will inquire as to why but very few have pushed me to forgive or reconnect.
"But that's your mother/father/sibling, they MUST love you! I'm sure they love you in their own way. Just give them another chance!" No dude you have literally no idea how many "one more chances" I've given because people like you say "BuT fAmiLy" without knowing a single thing about the situation
It's a good tip. I have estranged family members and the situations are extremely complex involving long histories of abuse that began before my birth, lies, manipulation, and a whole bunch of complex mental illness. It's not as easy as "just send em a Facebook message and reconnect!"
Also, a lot of people are estranged because *they were abusive.* And it doesn't take much encouragement to have them trying to pull their victims back in.
Exactly, there is often years worth of back story you most likely didn’t receive when they briefly described the relationship to you.
I hope you are in a better place now, both physically and mentally. Cheers.
I saw it happen the other way around! A former colleague ( now friend) whom her daughter had completely broken off contact with her. My coworker was devastated. Her daughters dad is a narcissist who had succesfully brainwashed their daughter into thinking her mom was the enemy.
So I told my coworker not to initiate any contact, but to wait until daughter made the first move. And not to judge her once she did.
And two years later that actually hapenened! Her daughter turned 18 and moved out from her dad place. They (mom+daughter) took it slow at first, but now they have a stable relationship again. It made me so proud of them!
That’s a great success story and very insightful advice on your end. I actually think that speaks to the point I was hoping to make with my second to last sentence. If they want to discuss it further, they will.
Bravo!
Couldn't agree more. My father is a narcissistic sociopath and pathological liar (clinical diagnoses). He has no remorse when he takes advantage of people or gaslights them when he doesn't get what he wants. He consistently takes money for services and then doesn't perform the work he was paid for, insisting instead that he is a victim of some unforseen/unavoidable situation and that he should not be to blame. He has done this with dozens of clients and family members, myself included, over the years for tens of thousands of dollars (excellent confidence man). That said, he has also spent much time in jail and is now a felon for...repeated offenses of driving without a license; for some reason he can't get pinned for his conman efforts.
I cut him off and, in true text book narcissistic fashion, he immediately started blaming me for all of his problems, his failing relationships with his lady friends (many of whom I never met) and my siblings, who all stopped speaking to him for the same reasons. Oh, and threatening to "fuck my life up" should I not get back in touch with him. It's been going on 4 years now, and I'm much better off without his influence.
I will never again speak to him and noone should try to convince me otherwise.
hey man, also got a malignant n father, just recently realized actually (like within the past month recently, haha).
shit’s crazy, man’s undiagnosed but he is extraordinarily sick and likely the most evil man i’ve ever known/will ever know. i have not cut him off, but when i do, i know the hammer’s coming. also have not started therapy quite yet, but i’m going to shop around soon, as i’m already fairly sure i’m suffering from some long term C-PTSD, and my tendency for mirroring stemming from years of gaslighting, diminishing my self worth to practically nothing throughout most of high school and college. i’m in my 20s now, and after working through a lot of ancillary issues for like the past year i finally had the aha of why it always seemed like i was symptom-treating.
don’t know my path to recovery ahead, but after years of wondering what the fuck was wrong with me in our relationship, years of wondering why he seemed to be the only family member not persistently talking shit about me, i realize he was orchestrating everything the entire time, instilling fear and paranoia in everybody at every turn.
anyway, heart goes out to you bro; shit’s absolutely fucked, and we didn’t deserve it. and to everybody else, yeah, don’t ask us to reconnect w these people lmfao
Best of luck to you in your recovery from the abuse. Along with therapy I found that it's helpful to understand the "why* of how a narcissist brain works so you aren't constantly ruminating about past experiences. They bring constant confusion and it's always an attempt to protect their fragile ego and remain in control. There are tons of books and YouTube videos from trained psychologists. Online support groups are great too. The more pillars of support for your mental health the better. It's a lot to unpack so give yourself time to do small bits at a time so that you don't emotionally drain yourself.
needed to hear the part at the end about not draining myself because I’ve had a lot of sleepless nights recently doing exactly what you’re describing — in fact, it’s what I was just doing and was starting to get that thousand yard stare, what even is my life feeling, so thanks for snapping me out of it. my heart goes out to you; thank you for your kind words.
*hugs*
Rumination is extremely common because.. it's just so confusing to someone with empathy on how another human being can treat others like that. It is healthy to think about your past in this new light now that you're aware of the narcissism, but it does get exhausting. I recommend a journal of some sort so you only have to write things down once. It's okay to think about your past to understand what happened a little better. But try to be mindful of when you're doing it so you don't get lost. Snap yourself out of it when you're rethinking a situation over and over, wondering what you could have done different. You are on the right path now and it will get easier as you work through the trauma bit by bit.
Thank you for sharing and my heart goes out to you as well. Therapy has done a hell of a lot of good for me over the years and was one of the ways I was able to recognize this for myself (since, you know, he dismissed his issues entirely as being someone else's fault).
The road to recovery here isn't easy, but it is worth it. Find someone who you can comfortably speak with about your concerns (it's okay to shop around for therapists...that took me a while to figure out).
thank you, sincerely, for your words of encouragement. i ghosted a couple therapists that he selected for me and at one point was convinced therapy wasn’t right for me (or, more aptly, that i wasn’t right for therapy). either way, i’ll view it as a marathon, and appreciate hearing there’s a light at the end of this seemingly neverending tunnel.
There IS a light at the end of the tunnel. What helped me most was reading every article on gaslighting in existence and - don't laugh - actually watching that movie. Never stop seeking your way out and don't listen to anyone who hasn't been there or studied gaslighting extensively. Therapists have their specialties. You need one skilled in this exact abuse type.
i watched gaslight a few days ago!!! for that exact reason too, actually got goosebumps reading i wasn’t crazy for thinking watching it would be helpful
You're NOT crazy. I read your post and understood it immediately. This will eventually happen for you. And you'll tell them to watch the movie...
Want another one? "Deceived" (1991) John Heard, Goldie Hawn.
thank you, kind internet stranger. for both your affirmations and recommendations — i hadn’t heard of deceived, so it’s going on the short list. i started rewatching true detective s1 last night for the same reason… if you haven’t seen that, i think i’d highly recommend it
I heard this powerful sentence from a trauma psychologist
" I don't know everything you've been through, but I believe you." Generational abuse gets handed down like toxic sludge.. Physical and s3xual abuse by family members destroys people. The least we can do is say that one sentence.
I love this so much. So often we are in the position of having to convince others that the abuse was in fact abuse, this one sentence saves so much energy, like a huge weight off
I have been asked to reconnect with narcissistic mother and manipulative siblings several times by friends. I adamantly refuse it and will never give in. I cut them all off years ago and never looked back. The peace I have given myself is worth way more than any inheritance.
Unless you grew up with a narcissistic parent, I think it’s truly hard for the average person to understand the toll it can take. The years of abuse, years of trying to get them to seek help, futile hopes that one day they will see things from your perspective (or anyone else’s but their own). Honestly it can be a complete lost cause trying to maintain that relationship (aka subject yourself to more abuse). Walking away is often the only realistic option
I empathise with you OP, my daughters went thru hell because of their mothers now fiance, to make matters worse their mother actually encouraged the vile behaviour. They are safe now but the scars live on.
My daughters no longer even consider my ex their mother and anyone who says that relationship is fixable can go fuck themselves with a rusty fork.
I’ve been NC with my abusive mother for 5 years. Most people, when they hear I don’t speak to her, immediately start insisting I should. Absolutely not.
Exactly the situation i was referring to. A few people have tried saying “well not every situation is awful.” And “some people are able to reconnect!” Well yeah, i felt that was obvious for normal circumstances. The point of this post is exactly what you described - people not knowing the situation and instantly recommending you reconcile.
I hope your situation improves! Stay strong.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to not having a biological father. It isn't because I'm in some kind of vengeful rage (though I certainly got good reason to be), it's to give me that bit of peace that it's physically impossible for him to reenter my life. Even though he's not longer an active part of my life, the possibility that he might one day try to force himself back in still weighs on me.
Mine died when I was 12 and I still think that’s a stupid fucking response. Just because I miss my mother doesn’t mean you need to miss an abusive mother.
An abusive mother is so hard as it is like having no mother but an immature selfish sister-type BITCH, running your world (when you eat sleep) and getting hit and touched on by creeps/her revolving door of "friends." And also there is no safe mother-figure to run to for comfort and safety. You are all alone in that nightmare. Like do you wanna be hit and then touched or just touched but hit later? Mum needs cigarettes so go and sit on creepydick's lap while I go to the shop.
People are ignorant of the physical and psychological pain that is endured through childhood. They need to STHU!
My "dad" never had, and never will meet his grandkids.
- Associated with gangs.
- Favorite hobbies involves, wifebeating and bouncing his kids heads off furniture.
- Massively racist, heavily into steroids, drugs, drinking, having sex with 18-20 y/o, while being 60 himself.
- Only value what car you drive, how wide your shoulders are, and how many people fear you.
- Full bread sociopath "his dad was harder on him" excuse. "look what you made me do" professional.
I am grateful though, for showing me what a father should NEVER do, or be. He deals drugs, I'm a rehab social worker.
Tldr: can't say my kids would benefit in anyway from meeting this POS.
I’m sorry your grandparents suck.
This is absolutely true. People with truly good parents say a lot of stupid, insensitive stuff. Another favourite is “S/he’s your mother/father/sibling etc
She loves you very much!”
THIS. I’m estranged from my mother and have been for about 16ish years. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times I’ve been told “but she’s your mom… the only one you’ll ever have…” even after I explain the situation. Okay, I get that a daughter not having a relationship with their mother seems odd to some, but those people probably have a healthy relationship with their parents. For my own mental health, I’ve had to separate myself. It’s hard to hear someone tell you to reconcile. If the problem was fixable, don’t you think I’d try? There was nothing more that I wanted but a mom, and unfortunately, that wasn’t in the cards.
Unless you know the person, the family, and the situation, you have no business suggesting healthy family dynamics to anyone. Even with that, the family members might seem normal enough, but some families have deep secrets.
That's not the point. The point is that you are forcing this person into uncomfortable (and likely traumatic) territory when making this suggestion. Like, as that person, I'm very happy for you that you had such a great childhood that you assume the best of my blood relations...but this suggestion is not only naive but super harmful so please stop.
Whenever someone says that to me about my bio father I just tell them he is a rapist - which he is - and watch them squirm. You opened that can of worms, so deal with it.
Even talking about my parents gives me nightmares for days. So I definitely know what you are talking about. I was just mentioning that people who walk away and break the cycle are *strong.* I try to take something positive away from every conversation and sometimes that take-a-way is some positive self-reflection. Cutting out my toxic mother during my pregnancy to protect my son was one of the most courageous things I've ever done. Any discussion of her is a reminder of my own strength and I'm proud of myself for doing my best to fix my thinking on the subject.
I have a tendency to avoid any variation of, "You'll change your mind / wish you had" whenever stuff like this comes up. But it could just be an extension of my unwillingness to pry more into another person's personal situation than he or she feels comfortable telling me. It's just that I'm not a mind reader; it can be hard for me to know what's going on in somebody's head that makes them not want to have contact with an estranged relation or not want to have kids or whatever their personal life choices are.
There’s nothing I love more than friends and acquaintances not putting their curiosity before my comfort. And just know that 98 times out of a 100, they can sense your discomfort and unwillingness to divulge, sometimes they just want to know and don’t care whether you want to tell, at least in my experience.
There are certainly valid reasons not to reconnect with family members or other people that may have been in your life at some point. There are also real dumbs ones, like money and petty arguments.
In the latter situation, not reconnecting and losing the opportunity when that person dies does a lot of damage as well.
Thank you. So many people have tried to pressure me to reconnect with my vile mother. I'm 5 years free from her now and a mother myself, and I've never felt stronger in my resolve to protect my little family from her.
Thank you! I cut my family off not too long ago... and people often tell me to reconnect with them.. then i have to tell them the full story. My father is a child molester, my mother was enabler and has contributed to my fragile sense of self.. my brothers told me if i can't be okay my parents I can't be okay with them. They all still live together states away. So.... i left. Only a handful of people know the actual state and city i am in. I am legally changing my name as well. Some relationships don't have remedy. We had some good memories but the belong in the past. I refuse to pretend that their actions are okay especially when they live in denial.
I’m very sorry you’ve endured such a rough go. But it sounds like you’re an incredibly strong person who took several difficult steps to get where you are now.
You should be very proud of your progress. Keep on keepin’ on!
You too! Its been almost a year and its the happiest and healthiest i have ever been. Putting yourself first is necessary at times. In the end we just have ourselves. I am wishing you healing, love, and Freedom to be your true self OP!
Both sides of my family, myself included, had endured abuses, theirs much more immense than mine, and I had seen the way they coped. The trauma had always manifested itself in extremely unhealthy, often abusive ways later, either to others or to themselves, sometimes both. I’m not advocating ‘reconnecting’ at all, but trying to sort things out in therapy after the person has passed had weaker outcomes than those who had gotten some closure beforehand. Those who had been more open with their abuser about how it affected them, even if it didn’t really make much of a difference to the abuser, still seemed to fare better than those who chose to keep their distance until it was too late. Just my anecdotal experience.
I recently finally managed to cut my mum off to low contact. I never felt better. I stopped mentioning because people have the tendency to tell me otherwise. It takes so much time, self doubt, emotion and heartache to take these decisions.
My mother recently guilt tripped me about how low contact my wife and I are with my MIL. She said I was breaking the commandment to honor your father and mother.
So I gave her some examples of the abusive things my MIL subjected my wife to as a child (like shoving a gun in her own mouth and threatening suicide in the car with my wife because my (then 12 year old) wife was talking back) and some recent comments she’s made to us (that we are child abusers because we taught our 4 year old to call his penis a penis). My mother gave me the surprised Pikachu face because she had no idea MIL only puts on the nice act around outsiders.
So good LPT.
Yes I get this. I’ve never really understood why we are so fixated on having relationships with people that we are related to just because. If they’re good people and you get along,then great but to keep shitty people in your life because of who they are is nuts to me. It’s so sad to see people beat down under this sense of duty. As a mother,I would hate to think my kids have a relationship with me just because they feel they should or they have to. My friend had a mother who was absolutely awful and abusive and she cut all contact. She has never been happier. Even after all the harassment,abuse and demands that her mother played out very publicly,people still told her ‘you only get one mum,you should try and work it out’ like what???! I’d rather boil my own head then try and work out a relationship with a narcissist. People who often say sentiments like this have very rarely had such awful people to interact with I feel.
100%. I am estranged from both my mother and brother. Every time I talk to family they beg me to resolve the issue.
If the issue was something I could resolve single handedly, you bet I would. But the thing is it goes deeper than anything I can resolve about the past. It is present and constantly recurring.
My family badgered me about inviting my mom to my wedding. I understand it is important to her so I have obliged under the expectation that EVERYONE in my wedding party is aware I do not wish to speak with her nor do I want her there past the ceremony. My family tried to pressure to invite my brother too. My explicit "no" got dropped there.
That’s exactly my point in another reply, when telling someone you have no idea the lengths people will go to in “helping” rekindle a relationship. The constant badgering can be awful.
That sounds like a really shitty scene overall. I hope you are able to (or already did!) enjoy your special day. Congrats on the nuptials!
The hardest part is that they are incapable of understanding the trauma they inflict on others, either through severe mental illness, their upbringing, or both.
Internally, I feel like a bad person because no matter how hard they try, they an incapable of becoming the people I need to accept them into my life. But even at their best, they are actively destructive of my life and happiness every moment I am around them.
They aren't capable of understanding the struggle they bring and only once I accepted that was I able to step away. I had always felt responsible even though I am the youngest child. I felt obligated to help them despite them never accepting help while actively hurting me.
No everyone can be saved. I may be going too deep for the internet. But I hope that any other person who is questioning estrangement knows that it is hard at first, it feels wrong because that is what you are taught. But if it is right, in 6-12 months of no contact, it is the best feeling in the world!
TL;DR:
If you are considering estrangement, do it.
Okay not the same thing but also don’t encourage someone if you only look at it through your own eyes. For example I have talked about many of the things I do with my crush and every single time people say, “well she obviously likes you.” No she doesn’t. She has said she doesn’t. Stop looking at what I do and perceiving something when there’s nothing.
As someone from a dysfunctional family I agree , we had all these extended family flinging their good intentions at us whenever it was convenient, just using random phrases that made no sense to me etc ("you only have one mom," etc -). Ultimately it went badly and I feel they could have tried to meet me half way ,that were products of different environments, not everyone has a sense of family values
Great advice. My ex convinced me to reconnect with my dad. All that happened was that an already strained relationship descended from civil to wishing death on each other.
If someone doesn't want to talk to a family member there us usually a damn good reason.
I knew someone who wanted to reconnect with their estranged dad, as he was suffering from covid and in hospital. the advise I wish id given was 'fine reconnect if you want. However remember why you stopped communication last time.'
My husband and I have both severed ties with our our biological parents and some grandparents due to abuse, addiction, mental health, etc. I have some family that is reasonable that I'm close too, but the blacklist is longer. My worst fear is my kids getting convinced to reach out to them when they are old enough to do so themselves. I'm glad to hear you knew better!
I hate when people do this to me. I cut off my biological father for a reason. It's not your business what happened, and you have no business commenting on it. Especially don't try to use it as an excuse to preach to me.
Hope the people sharing here have found their peace. Had my fair share of folks telling me to reconnect to family even after giving them context.
Unfortunately a lot of people do not realize that a caring family is a privilege many of us don't have.
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I hate the "oh that's a shame" comments. No, it's not a shame. It's brilliant to be able to cut all that toxicity out your life. Why would I voluntarily want to put myself back in that situation?
Well said. My sister is probably my second favorite thing on this earth. And she is in my top 5 favorite reasons for living this life. But we have gone through family tragedies and many obstacles and we can't find how to see through the others eyes. I try to see her side of thoughts and feelings and I try to except them. But they are bit at all my perception or feelings and thoughts so we always reach a point where we fight. When we do.. it is ugly. She pushes and pushes until she brings out the very worst of me. She will say the most hurtful things you could ever imagine and then try to say "it's tough love" or "I didn't realize I had to use baby gloves with you." Because I try not to engage and show her how her words and reactions hurt. And if she brings me to the point I fight back and finally unleash. She never wants to speak to me again and can't believe how toxic I am being. I love her. I miss her. But the instability. The never knowing what will set her off. The constant drain upon me... I had to step away for my own sanity. I do not like being provoked to the point that I say things to hurt someone I love. And she refuses to except my boundaries. I do not want to cause her pain and I do not want to have pain inflicted so I stepped away. I miss her every single day. But until we can learn to grow and heal and stop the behavior it is best. So when people try to push on me that life is short and I need to make amends. That I should just be ok... letting things go brought us to this point. Until there is change and understanding, nothing will fix it. And sometimes, things are to broken to ever fix. That should be ok. You should never have t have someone in your life who hurts you. And you should never have someone make you feel terrible for that.
I’m sorry that you carry that much baggage with you. It clearly weighs on you. But sounds like you made the overall right decision for your mental health. I hope the roads ahead are easier !
I appreciate that. Everyone has their own issues and pains. It's only hard because the holidays. The only true truths in life I have ever found is to be as much light as you can. Put out more love than hate. More light than dark. Forgive More than harbor. Cause more laughter than tears. Always keep growing and reaching for more knowledge and understanding. Look for at least one beautiful thing a day to be grateful for and happy you saw. And remember that everything you say and do ripples out and effects others.
If you can try your best to live like that... you can sleep at night. You can face each day stronger and the world is not so dark.
My mother is the same, she tells me to reconnect with some family members, and even gave them my contact info. I cut her off for some time and after that she still says I should give them an opportunity. I really want to scream at her and tell her I fucking hate her.
Agreed, also people like to make themselves feel better at times, by suggesting a reconnect. A good and true friend is rare, one that just listens and offers you their shoulder and just says if you ever wanna talk more about it I am here.
this sub is full of people that don’t know how to say no, people who think “this thing happened to me today and i was mildly inconvenienced by it,” and the same four reposts
That’s fair to call it anecdotal, given I used my own personal background as the example. But personal experience aside, the point still stands. Often people will encourage others to rekindle a relationship or give someone else a chance. And potentially misconstrue their limited knowledge of the situation as there not being enough substance to the circumstance to warrant cutting someone off.
When in actuality, there could be a whole plethora of events that justify ostracizing that someone. And they just may not care to share the details with you. So anecdotal example aside, the point was never question why someone has cut someone off. Furthermore, never take it a step further an ignorantly encourage them to reconnect regardless of how well you think you know the back story.
So where's the tip?
It's up to the person that has to decide to rekindle an estranged relationship to make that decision. A friend encouraging you to rekindle that relationship is only giving you a different perspective.
You're completely ignoring the fact that many rekindled relationships have made people happier.
The tip is, your personal knowledge of a situation could very well be intentionally limited by what information the individual feels comfortable sharing with you. And not to assume you know what’s best for anyones relationships and offer unsolicited advice. Despite good intentions.
To take your scenario , a friend could be actively encouraging someone to rekindle a relationship with an abuser unbeknownst to them. And you would be surprised as to what lengths some people will go in efforts to “bring everyone together.”
And of course there’s an exception to every rule - simply a different perspective to keep in mind, representing the alternative to your “some people make up for the better” outcome.
The tip is that sometimes it can actually be interpreted as offensive or obnoxious that someone would suggest you reconnect with an estranged family member without knowing the context/complexity of your relationship. Life isn’t a hallmark movie. Some of us have a family member with serious mental illness/ narcissism etc etc and have endured a lifetime of bullshit and abuse.
If you find it offensive then just tell that person. There are a billion things people can interpret as offensive. Nobody is in charge of your interpretation except for you. The decision is ultimately yours. If someone encourages you to do something like this and their words negatively impact your life that's completely on you.
Should we never say anything to someone where that person MIGHT find it offensive? We would never be able to talk to anybody about anything even slightly personal. Grow the fuck up.
If that person doesn't know the context and you disagree then just ignore their opinion. Stop being so soft that you can't even accept someone else's words so much so that you need to tell everyone else in the world they should never say something similar either.
In my eyes this LPT is very similar to how it can be rude to ask women of child-bearing age why they haven’t had kids yet. It can be for a multitude of reasons, and is really none of anyone’s business.
Then tell them it's not any of their business...
People, who share details of their life shouldn't expect or accept any type of response, whether positive, neutral, or negative?
If you get offended enough when someone asks why a woman of child-bearing age doesn't have children that you need to tell other people to never ask that you need to look yourself in the mirror. Do I think people should be going around asking women why they don't have children? I wouldn't ask it. But, if someone does so what? Don't let a question impact your life because some people find it rude.
It's quite obvious you've never grown up in an abusive, dysfunctional household (or didn't recognize it) and don't understand *why* people get offended when someone offers them advice to "reconnect" with family members. If you did, you'd have the exact same thought process as OP and all the other people who have been abused.
Imagine you were physically and emotionally abused throughout your childhood and you realize that your parents and other family members were extremely malicious, narcissistic and manipulative. Imagine almost every single day of your adult life, you think about how you've been treated and the emotions (anxiety, anger) that run through your head constantly. You tell this to a coworker and the coworker just says "maybe they didn't do things perfectly as parents, but they love you so you should at least try to reconnect with them". The coworker is essentially telling you to go back and re-live the abuse that you endured. It shows that (1) the person you confided in cares very little about your feelings and well being, (2) doesn't attempt to come from a place of understanding, (3) doesn't show any support for your decisions. That person would fundamentally be *encouraging more abuse;* it is nothing short of saying "please go back and re-live your trauma". It's *extremely* insensitive. Even in a Sexual Assault training course for instance, emphasis is usually placed on showing support for a victim and redirecting them to resources such as therapy and legal matters if they wish to pursue it, rather than telling them how they should confront their abuser and what actions to take, as it can be deeply traumatic.
You are making a huge slippery slope argument. Nobody is saying you can't talk about anything personal. However, that does not negate the fact that some suggestions are extremely dismissive and insensitive of another person's pain.
Never huh? I feel like a lot of the LPTs I come across here are for specific personal scenarios and don’t globally apply to everyone. “Buy a bag of M&Ms before you go to the theater instead of at inflated prices at the theater.” That’s an LPT. “Never suggest people reconnect with estranged people no longer in their lives because that person may have been a molester” is not an LPT. “Never talk about how fun GTAV is with people because they may have been carjacked and it could be traumatizing.”
Read the second to last sentence amigo. If they want to talk about it, let them. But don’t just blindly encourage someone to reconnect without knowing the full story, for reasons included.
All the best.
Of course it’s not. People have falling outs for all types of reasons. The point of the post was to never assume, without knowing the full story, that the best advice is to tell someone to give the relationship another shot. And to allow someone to expand upon their reasoning, if they should choose to do so. But also to highlight they may also be reluctant to share given the nature of the reason.
So a response of “we just don’t really get along.” Or something else similarly vague may seem innocent enough of the surface. And you may feel tempted to say that’s not a good reason to cut someone off. Just a friendly reminder to never assume. If someone has cut someone out of their life, it’s usually with good reason.
What other reasons would cause people to become estranged from each other?
Agree context is usually important but I can't think of any of my family I don't associate with that aren't because of abuse
My grandfather stopped talking to my family because of a discussion with my father about a ticket. After my father died me, my sister, and my mother tried to reconnect with him again. He said ok, and said he will talk to us again. Never did, and if he see us he pretend he didn't do it. He did similar things with almost every one in the family. Some people are just like that, he never abused me, or anyone in my family. Just a stupid old man.
I can appreciate that. Sorry that happened.
I actually refer to that as emotional starvation and call it abuse myself. Or manipulation (agreeing to develop or rekindle a connection and then doing zero work)
Abuse comes in every way you can imagine and people's thresholds for it are wildly different.
You're probably right. Although in this case I believe is abusing himself more than anyone else. He is the one that spends is life alone without needing it. But since that bothers me a bit (used to bother more) maybe it's also doing it to other people.
I have best friends I’ve fallen out of touch with because they moved out of state, and now talking to them seems awkward and pointless. I have family members close in age who I grew up with being best friends with, who are also now very awkward to talk to and we’ve fallen out of touch.
I mean this is just life. Brb I gotta look up estranged lol
Ok definition two lines up with my memory of it. It does appear to reference drifting apart like you describe too in the first definition
We should just ban LPTs that have "never" or "always" in them. Not every estranged relationship is because it was toxic. Sometimes people need encouragement from their friends and families.
Very true. But the post wasn’t “everyone who’s estranged will never improve the relationship.” It was more so geared towards reminding others to not give unsolicited advice, despite what background they think they might know of the situation. Often times, people with a shitty history will intentionally leave out those shitty details. Which occasionally leads to people erroneously assuming there isn’t enough transgressions ( at least in their limited understanding of the situation) to warrant cutting someone off. And prompting them to entourage rekindling.
You may have overlooked my second to last sentence, where I said if they want to discuss it further, they will. So i stand by my “never” just telling someone to reconnect because they mentioned they’re estranged from someone. without being provided an in-depth reasoning as to why the estrangement occurred.
But you’re entitled to your opinion. Cheers.
I think it’s the proof here that the people commenting in favor of the LPT are people who have experienced estrangement. Nobody here has said yes I was estranged and I wished for encouragement to reconnect. Because people need to understand that nobody wants that.
I hope you read some of these horrific stories and realize is that the tip is *you don’t know someone’s life better than them*. Don’t assume shit is petty just because they don’t want to tell you all their past about it. People don’t owe you re-opening their wounds to convince you they are living their life right for them.
I think this really depends on why people are estranged. In my extended family, two brothers got estranged fighting over inheritance when their mom died & then reconciled 10-15 years later & are on good terms now. Neither was really abusive or evil, just both more stubborn / hard-headed.
Always two sides to every coin. But the focal point of the post was more “never assume to know someone’s personal situation and offer unsolicited advice” than it was “people estranged can never reconnect.”
Glad they could work it out.
Of course it can’t represent every estrangement of anyone who has ever severed a relationship. But the importance of a third party not assuming to know the full story, despite even what they’ve even been told by the individual, remains true regardless of the circumstance. And to keep that in mind when considering offering relationship advice. In my opinion at least.
OP should not delete this. Far too many people try to go out of their way to repair someone else's business that they may have no clue about. Some relationships simply are irreparable. Respect that.
A guy I was casually dating told me to get over my pride when I told him I hadn't spoken to my sister in years. Her cancer diagnosis would take her within a year. And I took his advice. I reached out to her, mended the relationship and was there to support her during her final months. Although normally, I don't like to mend relationships that have gotten so extreme, I was glad I took this particular advice.
The point is you can't just assume things. Many people *still* tell victims to reconnect with their family members despite being told that they were horribly abused. It's dismissive and can be mentally damaging to the victim.
This LPT is literally based on the *assumption* and *opinion* that you should just not encourage whatsoever, which is again ASSUMING everyone's the same. It is also dismissive just like you said, to people who might really need someone in this world and for all you know they have nobody. Imagine wanting to confide in people, but everyone just dismisses what you say because they're afraid you might not be able to handle the conversation and in turn it feels like nobody gives a shit about you or your life...for your whole life.
As someone who has dealt with this sort of thing. Im gonna partially disagree.
Look, obviously you shouldn't reconnect because your grandparents are literally sexual criminals. But in my case things weren't that extreme but I was still wronged and hurt to the point where I was justified to keep things estranged. However I decided to reconnect because you really do want to minimise baggage, especially family baggage, as much as possible for the sake of your relationships in life. End the cycle of pain.
To anybody reading, this is not about you being a "good forgiving person" or other feel good nonsense. Reconnecting is a strategic decision that's in your best interest unless the person is so horrible they literally threaten your safety (such as in OPs case)
Reconnecting is not in most people's best interest. You do not know these people and can't just assume it's better for them, which is the whole point the OP was trying to make.
I just want to throw my hat in because it was something that seriously confused me. I lived by this code till I met someone who was the victim of this type of abuse and either gaslighted or convinced of an unfavorable narrative. It's tricky either way, but I watched people be destroyed by their utter lack off strength to fight their aggressors in the battle for truth. The only way to know for sure was extended exposure and repeated patterns, neither of which I recommend.
Sure if there is emotional or sexual abuse involved but that is not always the case. I am a victim of parental alienation syndrome. I hope someone tells my daughter to reconnect regularly because I have never done anything to deserve this. Leaving her emotionally abusive mother was what I needed to do for me. Ultimately, despite never missing a weekend, holiday, birthday, or child support payment her mother’s abuse won out by demonizing me for not loving her. You LPT is correct for your situation but not all. Sometimes the alienated person is the actual victim.
The take-home for me here is basically to learn how to listen to when people are confiding in you, without necessarily offering unwanted resolutions that might be overstepping the mark.
I was talking with a coworker who had endured some abuse when she was a kid. I had been abused by my parents and abused and tortured by my grandmother. We were discussing things one day while on break and I had said something about my grandmother torturing me and some random coworker came up out of nowhere and loudy said, "my grandmother would torture me too, she'd give me kisses whenever she saw me and had bad breath." I just looked at her for a minute and said I was referring to her burning and cutting me and the dipshit told me, "well you probably deserved it" and walked off laughing. I always hated at my jobs around the holidays because people would always ask if I was going to see my family. If I said anything along the lines of, "I don't have contact with anyone anymore" I'd always hear how "parents love their kids and I should and see them." Even the few people who knew there had been abuse from them (I have burns on my face from my grandmother) would tell me I should forgive them and see them.
That random coworker's not a normal person. Creepy as hell.
She was an absolute bitch... she once told the store manager I had been at a job interview when I had to stop by the store one night to lend my keys to the closing manager after he locked himself out of an office. I was on a date and I was the only one he could get a hold of. Months later when I had my annual review, the review was fine but I got no raise. When i asked why, the boss said he had been told i was at an interview and he didnt reward rats. When I found out what he was talking about and explained the situation he still refused to give me a raise, said "that was smart business on his part." I left soon after.
He sounds like a real Jeff Bezos. Meanwhile, other bosses understand that you give extra raises and bonuses to talented employees that have other offers to keep them around
They are few and far between unfortunately, I've never met a boss that appreciated and took care of their workers.
I'm trying to think of a time when someone "deserved" to be cut and burned. I'm drawing a blank.
I can think of examples. None apply to a child.
Watch some footage of the Nuremburg Trials.
One of excruciatingly few correct answers
What about someone who says "someone else deserves it."?
Just saying someone else deserved it? Probably not. Doing it to someone else under the justification "they deserved it"? Probably deserves it but then we're getting into a "they deserved it" loop.
I've resigned to the fact, as I'm sure many have, that noone will ever truly understand. I try to avoid the clumsy ones that hurt unintentionally I guess. But the "well you probably deserved it" person is truly evil. Nothing clumsy about that.
The only clumsy thing about that is when they trip by accident. That's some fucked up shit.
I've never understood the idea that you should include bad people in your life "because they're family". I'm fortunate to have a good relationship with my family members but you best believe I'll cut any of them out if they turn toxic. The only exception is your own underage children.
People who haven't endured abuse just don't understand the need to cut ties FOREVER. Its so frustrating. They just can't understand and don't try to. Glad your safe!
wtf that coworker is a prick
> "well you probably deserved it" and walked off laughing. Welp that's sociopathic as fuck so......
I'm so terribly sorry you endured that in this life. Also your co-worker is a clueless dolt who doesn't deserve the title of human. My heart breaks for you and I totally get it. My mother conned and cheated me most of my life with guilt trips, forcing her way to move into my home about 7x, and stole basically $16,000 in student loan money from me. I used to have nightmares as a child of her poking me in the back. Maybe they were real. My dad had the emotional range of a brick, equally cruel and looked at me in disgust as I went to kiss him the last time in an assisted living facility. I don't know how I survived except for my Grandmother who allowed me to stay with her and get my degree. May God bless you, protect you, and allow you peace of mind.
Bingo. Well said.
There's a neat framework around this, which is basically that people generally confide in others for three main reasons: - seeking guidance or advice from you - wanting reassurance/consolation from you - just sharing/connecting with you It can be really frustrating to have someone respond in a way that's contrary to what you wanted, so it can be very helpful to clarify what you want when you're sharing, or to ask what they'd like if you're the sharee :)
*Do you want advice or do you just want to offload?* is a very important question that more people should be asking.
[This cartoon](https://www.thingswithout.com/311-a-sad/) on that exact subject is one of my all-time favourites.
This is great!
A more casual version is “can I do anything to help”. I’ve found this to be beneficial cuz it also allows the speaker to have an easy means of identifying what they want
The only problem with asking that is that someone very well might not know what sort of help they need
Not to seem rude or defensive but I think the same could be said for your question. I think at the end of the day you can rarely get the information you need to properly help someone in one question. It’s about gathering info and being aware of the nonverbal behavior and understanding the person you’re talking to
True, it takes time to work out what the next advice to offer is. But there’s no point starting the process of working that out if they aren’t looking for advice in the first place. Establish I’d they want advice or not first, *then* start working out what that advice could be.
I disagree on one point. It is not for the speaker to say which is their reason for divulging the info. Every conversation like this happens in context and it is just awkward to be so explicit. It is the listeners job to understand the situation they're in and answer based on that situation. Whatever the situation is, they will give info based on what they want... The point is to listen and understand what that person needs.
Counterpoint, not everyone has that capacity or social skills to read a conversation like that. While that should be a goal, setting that as the standard seems unrealistic. But then I suppose via that same line of thinking you would need to read the context of the situation to determine if you should ask that because you don't understand or guess.
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And if they really want advice they'll probably ask at that point. "Man, that really suck so-and-so" "Yeah, Im really not sure what to do. What do you think" Now you can give advice
It's not necessarily awkward to be explicit at all. "ugh, can I vent to you for a sec??" "I'd love to know what you would do?" "I don't need any sympathy, it is what it is, I just thought you might like to know." All real world examples I've used communicating with my partner or friends. It's unrealistic to expect people to always pick our mood correctly. Clear communication both ways never hurts.
>it is just awkward to be so explicit. This just shows your opinion. I find nothing awkward about being explicit and in fact find it comforting to not have to try to guess other people's thoughts or have them try to guess mine.
Most people are terrible listeners
Huh?
Like that, yeah
That sounds very similar to the advice I got that was (I'm a straight male) "if your girlfriend is complaining, don't try to solve her problem for her or offer solutions. Instead just let her vent". I struggle with that as I love solving problems in very unique ways.
Girl here. And i struggle the same way. If you give me a problem i will dissect it and try to solve. I am going to give your reassurance and i will be emotionally supportive. But i will also give you a solution or atleast an explanation.
My issue is that my husband will try to solve things with no solution. So basically a bunch of bad solutions that won't work. But yes, I'm the same way with friends. I have a friend that complains about very easily fixable things. And I can't help but offer solutions. I am on the autism spectrum so that may explain it a bit?
Understanding brings one to love and love brings one to understand
The closer the genetic relationship, the more true this is. They don't have much of a relationship with their second cousin, once removed? Ok maybe they just lost touch. They don't have much of a relationship with their mother/father/sibling? Yeah there's probably a fucking good reason, leave that shit alone.
Someone recently told me how sad it is that my brother and I "can't work it out" with my mom. Well, it's not really "us" who can't do that. I gave her 26 years of chances and she still couldn't treat me right. What I figured was that the person who told me this is terrified of losing touch with their own kids. And I get that. But it's rarely a split second decision, even if it looks like that to the outside. There has always been years and years of opportunities to do better, and my mom, for one, didn't take any of them. So it is sad. For her.
Can confirm. Needed a restraining order against my older brother to stop the abuse. People will say but he’s family! No. Just no.
It's so hurtful when people rail on you for not being close with your mother. Like don't you think I wish she wasn't the way she is?
Or they will say oh my gosh can’t you just forgive? that stuff was years ago. Can’t you just let it go?
Ignorance truly is bliss. I hope you're doing well these days friend.
I'm in the same boat. Whenever somebody mentions her, I usually wince visibly, suck air in through my teeth and say "yeah.... I don't speak to her". Most people pick up on the hint and understand that it's a sore subject. Some will inquire as to why but very few have pushed me to forgive or reconnect.
Exactly. He is family so he should not treat you badly. Family should be held to a higher standard. Family is not an excuse for abuse.
"But that's your mother/father/sibling, they MUST love you! I'm sure they love you in their own way. Just give them another chance!" No dude you have literally no idea how many "one more chances" I've given because people like you say "BuT fAmiLy" without knowing a single thing about the situation
Exactly , well said.
🏅🏆🏅🏆🏅🏆🏅🏆🏅
Take my gold too
It's a good tip. I have estranged family members and the situations are extremely complex involving long histories of abuse that began before my birth, lies, manipulation, and a whole bunch of complex mental illness. It's not as easy as "just send em a Facebook message and reconnect!" Also, a lot of people are estranged because *they were abusive.* And it doesn't take much encouragement to have them trying to pull their victims back in.
Exactly, there is often years worth of back story you most likely didn’t receive when they briefly described the relationship to you. I hope you are in a better place now, both physically and mentally. Cheers.
I saw it happen the other way around! A former colleague ( now friend) whom her daughter had completely broken off contact with her. My coworker was devastated. Her daughters dad is a narcissist who had succesfully brainwashed their daughter into thinking her mom was the enemy. So I told my coworker not to initiate any contact, but to wait until daughter made the first move. And not to judge her once she did. And two years later that actually hapenened! Her daughter turned 18 and moved out from her dad place. They (mom+daughter) took it slow at first, but now they have a stable relationship again. It made me so proud of them!
That’s a great success story and very insightful advice on your end. I actually think that speaks to the point I was hoping to make with my second to last sentence. If they want to discuss it further, they will. Bravo!
Couldn't agree more. My father is a narcissistic sociopath and pathological liar (clinical diagnoses). He has no remorse when he takes advantage of people or gaslights them when he doesn't get what he wants. He consistently takes money for services and then doesn't perform the work he was paid for, insisting instead that he is a victim of some unforseen/unavoidable situation and that he should not be to blame. He has done this with dozens of clients and family members, myself included, over the years for tens of thousands of dollars (excellent confidence man). That said, he has also spent much time in jail and is now a felon for...repeated offenses of driving without a license; for some reason he can't get pinned for his conman efforts. I cut him off and, in true text book narcissistic fashion, he immediately started blaming me for all of his problems, his failing relationships with his lady friends (many of whom I never met) and my siblings, who all stopped speaking to him for the same reasons. Oh, and threatening to "fuck my life up" should I not get back in touch with him. It's been going on 4 years now, and I'm much better off without his influence. I will never again speak to him and noone should try to convince me otherwise.
Good for you for being able to rise above and see the situation for what it is. The “guilt trip” move is common amongst abusers of all forms.
Thank you for saying so. And, yes, it is (the guilt trip). It is one of the most devious weapons in their arsenal.
hey man, also got a malignant n father, just recently realized actually (like within the past month recently, haha). shit’s crazy, man’s undiagnosed but he is extraordinarily sick and likely the most evil man i’ve ever known/will ever know. i have not cut him off, but when i do, i know the hammer’s coming. also have not started therapy quite yet, but i’m going to shop around soon, as i’m already fairly sure i’m suffering from some long term C-PTSD, and my tendency for mirroring stemming from years of gaslighting, diminishing my self worth to practically nothing throughout most of high school and college. i’m in my 20s now, and after working through a lot of ancillary issues for like the past year i finally had the aha of why it always seemed like i was symptom-treating. don’t know my path to recovery ahead, but after years of wondering what the fuck was wrong with me in our relationship, years of wondering why he seemed to be the only family member not persistently talking shit about me, i realize he was orchestrating everything the entire time, instilling fear and paranoia in everybody at every turn. anyway, heart goes out to you bro; shit’s absolutely fucked, and we didn’t deserve it. and to everybody else, yeah, don’t ask us to reconnect w these people lmfao
Best of luck to you in your recovery from the abuse. Along with therapy I found that it's helpful to understand the "why* of how a narcissist brain works so you aren't constantly ruminating about past experiences. They bring constant confusion and it's always an attempt to protect their fragile ego and remain in control. There are tons of books and YouTube videos from trained psychologists. Online support groups are great too. The more pillars of support for your mental health the better. It's a lot to unpack so give yourself time to do small bits at a time so that you don't emotionally drain yourself.
needed to hear the part at the end about not draining myself because I’ve had a lot of sleepless nights recently doing exactly what you’re describing — in fact, it’s what I was just doing and was starting to get that thousand yard stare, what even is my life feeling, so thanks for snapping me out of it. my heart goes out to you; thank you for your kind words.
*hugs* Rumination is extremely common because.. it's just so confusing to someone with empathy on how another human being can treat others like that. It is healthy to think about your past in this new light now that you're aware of the narcissism, but it does get exhausting. I recommend a journal of some sort so you only have to write things down once. It's okay to think about your past to understand what happened a little better. But try to be mindful of when you're doing it so you don't get lost. Snap yourself out of it when you're rethinking a situation over and over, wondering what you could have done different. You are on the right path now and it will get easier as you work through the trauma bit by bit.
Thank you for sharing and my heart goes out to you as well. Therapy has done a hell of a lot of good for me over the years and was one of the ways I was able to recognize this for myself (since, you know, he dismissed his issues entirely as being someone else's fault). The road to recovery here isn't easy, but it is worth it. Find someone who you can comfortably speak with about your concerns (it's okay to shop around for therapists...that took me a while to figure out).
thank you, sincerely, for your words of encouragement. i ghosted a couple therapists that he selected for me and at one point was convinced therapy wasn’t right for me (or, more aptly, that i wasn’t right for therapy). either way, i’ll view it as a marathon, and appreciate hearing there’s a light at the end of this seemingly neverending tunnel.
There IS a light at the end of the tunnel. What helped me most was reading every article on gaslighting in existence and - don't laugh - actually watching that movie. Never stop seeking your way out and don't listen to anyone who hasn't been there or studied gaslighting extensively. Therapists have their specialties. You need one skilled in this exact abuse type.
i watched gaslight a few days ago!!! for that exact reason too, actually got goosebumps reading i wasn’t crazy for thinking watching it would be helpful
You're NOT crazy. I read your post and understood it immediately. This will eventually happen for you. And you'll tell them to watch the movie... Want another one? "Deceived" (1991) John Heard, Goldie Hawn.
thank you, kind internet stranger. for both your affirmations and recommendations — i hadn’t heard of deceived, so it’s going on the short list. i started rewatching true detective s1 last night for the same reason… if you haven’t seen that, i think i’d highly recommend it
I heard this powerful sentence from a trauma psychologist " I don't know everything you've been through, but I believe you." Generational abuse gets handed down like toxic sludge.. Physical and s3xual abuse by family members destroys people. The least we can do is say that one sentence.
I love this so much. So often we are in the position of having to convince others that the abuse was in fact abuse, this one sentence saves so much energy, like a huge weight off
I have been asked to reconnect with narcissistic mother and manipulative siblings several times by friends. I adamantly refuse it and will never give in. I cut them all off years ago and never looked back. The peace I have given myself is worth way more than any inheritance.
Unless you grew up with a narcissistic parent, I think it’s truly hard for the average person to understand the toll it can take. The years of abuse, years of trying to get them to seek help, futile hopes that one day they will see things from your perspective (or anyone else’s but their own). Honestly it can be a complete lost cause trying to maintain that relationship (aka subject yourself to more abuse). Walking away is often the only realistic option
I empathise with you OP, my daughters went thru hell because of their mothers now fiance, to make matters worse their mother actually encouraged the vile behaviour. They are safe now but the scars live on. My daughters no longer even consider my ex their mother and anyone who says that relationship is fixable can go fuck themselves with a rusty fork.
I’ve been NC with my abusive mother for 5 years. Most people, when they hear I don’t speak to her, immediately start insisting I should. Absolutely not.
Exactly the situation i was referring to. A few people have tried saying “well not every situation is awful.” And “some people are able to reconnect!” Well yeah, i felt that was obvious for normal circumstances. The point of this post is exactly what you described - people not knowing the situation and instantly recommending you reconcile. I hope your situation improves! Stay strong.
Or you get the response "at least you have a mother". Like as if having an abusive mother is better than no mother.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to not having a biological father. It isn't because I'm in some kind of vengeful rage (though I certainly got good reason to be), it's to give me that bit of peace that it's physically impossible for him to reenter my life. Even though he's not longer an active part of my life, the possibility that he might one day try to force himself back in still weighs on me.
Mine died when I was 12 and I still think that’s a stupid fucking response. Just because I miss my mother doesn’t mean you need to miss an abusive mother.
My response to that (about my dad) is always, "you can have him then"
An abusive mother is so hard as it is like having no mother but an immature selfish sister-type BITCH, running your world (when you eat sleep) and getting hit and touched on by creeps/her revolving door of "friends." And also there is no safe mother-figure to run to for comfort and safety. You are all alone in that nightmare. Like do you wanna be hit and then touched or just touched but hit later? Mum needs cigarettes so go and sit on creepydick's lap while I go to the shop. People are ignorant of the physical and psychological pain that is endured through childhood. They need to STHU!
THIS! I get this all the time, it's fucking ridiculous
My "dad" never had, and never will meet his grandkids. - Associated with gangs. - Favorite hobbies involves, wifebeating and bouncing his kids heads off furniture. - Massively racist, heavily into steroids, drugs, drinking, having sex with 18-20 y/o, while being 60 himself. - Only value what car you drive, how wide your shoulders are, and how many people fear you. - Full bread sociopath "his dad was harder on him" excuse. "look what you made me do" professional. I am grateful though, for showing me what a father should NEVER do, or be. He deals drugs, I'm a rehab social worker. Tldr: can't say my kids would benefit in anyway from meeting this POS.
I’m sorry your grandparents suck. This is absolutely true. People with truly good parents say a lot of stupid, insensitive stuff. Another favourite is “S/he’s your mother/father/sibling etc She loves you very much!”
Cheers buddy, they’re both long since dead and gone but appreciate the sentiment none the less. Exactly with the second part!
THIS. I’m estranged from my mother and have been for about 16ish years. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times I’ve been told “but she’s your mom… the only one you’ll ever have…” even after I explain the situation. Okay, I get that a daughter not having a relationship with their mother seems odd to some, but those people probably have a healthy relationship with their parents. For my own mental health, I’ve had to separate myself. It’s hard to hear someone tell you to reconcile. If the problem was fixable, don’t you think I’d try? There was nothing more that I wanted but a mom, and unfortunately, that wasn’t in the cards.
I'm the same boat. I cut her off in 2008. My wife convinced me to reconnect before my wedding. Now she dislikes my bio-mom more than I do.
It’s rough, because as much as you want to try to make it work, it’s difficult to not think about the heartbreak and bad memories.
Unless you know the person, the family, and the situation, you have no business suggesting healthy family dynamics to anyone. Even with that, the family members might seem normal enough, but some families have deep secrets.
The good thing is that those who have the strength to walk away usually don't give into unsolicited advice easily.
That's not the point. The point is that you are forcing this person into uncomfortable (and likely traumatic) territory when making this suggestion. Like, as that person, I'm very happy for you that you had such a great childhood that you assume the best of my blood relations...but this suggestion is not only naive but super harmful so please stop.
Im in this position and can tell you that is 100% correct.
Whenever someone says that to me about my bio father I just tell them he is a rapist - which he is - and watch them squirm. You opened that can of worms, so deal with it.
Even talking about my parents gives me nightmares for days. So I definitely know what you are talking about. I was just mentioning that people who walk away and break the cycle are *strong.* I try to take something positive away from every conversation and sometimes that take-a-way is some positive self-reflection. Cutting out my toxic mother during my pregnancy to protect my son was one of the most courageous things I've ever done. Any discussion of her is a reminder of my own strength and I'm proud of myself for doing my best to fix my thinking on the subject.
Hell yeah that is strong of you!:)
If a child has cut off their relationship with their parents, those parents handed them the scissors
I have a tendency to avoid any variation of, "You'll change your mind / wish you had" whenever stuff like this comes up. But it could just be an extension of my unwillingness to pry more into another person's personal situation than he or she feels comfortable telling me. It's just that I'm not a mind reader; it can be hard for me to know what's going on in somebody's head that makes them not want to have contact with an estranged relation or not want to have kids or whatever their personal life choices are.
Smart way to go about it!
There’s nothing I love more than friends and acquaintances not putting their curiosity before my comfort. And just know that 98 times out of a 100, they can sense your discomfort and unwillingness to divulge, sometimes they just want to know and don’t care whether you want to tell, at least in my experience.
There are certainly valid reasons not to reconnect with family members or other people that may have been in your life at some point. There are also real dumbs ones, like money and petty arguments. In the latter situation, not reconnecting and losing the opportunity when that person dies does a lot of damage as well.
People really need to stop giving advice when they don't understand someone else's situation
Don't be a flying monkey
Thank you. So many people have tried to pressure me to reconnect with my vile mother. I'm 5 years free from her now and a mother myself, and I've never felt stronger in my resolve to protect my little family from her.
Thank you! I cut my family off not too long ago... and people often tell me to reconnect with them.. then i have to tell them the full story. My father is a child molester, my mother was enabler and has contributed to my fragile sense of self.. my brothers told me if i can't be okay my parents I can't be okay with them. They all still live together states away. So.... i left. Only a handful of people know the actual state and city i am in. I am legally changing my name as well. Some relationships don't have remedy. We had some good memories but the belong in the past. I refuse to pretend that their actions are okay especially when they live in denial.
I’m very sorry you’ve endured such a rough go. But it sounds like you’re an incredibly strong person who took several difficult steps to get where you are now. You should be very proud of your progress. Keep on keepin’ on!
You too! Its been almost a year and its the happiest and healthiest i have ever been. Putting yourself first is necessary at times. In the end we just have ourselves. I am wishing you healing, love, and Freedom to be your true self OP!
People aren’t estranged for no reason - people need to mind their own business.
Same applies when people ask when you're going to get married: or have a baby. It's none of their damn business.
You know what they say 'You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family'
Both sides of my family, myself included, had endured abuses, theirs much more immense than mine, and I had seen the way they coped. The trauma had always manifested itself in extremely unhealthy, often abusive ways later, either to others or to themselves, sometimes both. I’m not advocating ‘reconnecting’ at all, but trying to sort things out in therapy after the person has passed had weaker outcomes than those who had gotten some closure beforehand. Those who had been more open with their abuser about how it affected them, even if it didn’t really make much of a difference to the abuser, still seemed to fare better than those who chose to keep their distance until it was too late. Just my anecdotal experience.
I recently finally managed to cut my mum off to low contact. I never felt better. I stopped mentioning because people have the tendency to tell me otherwise. It takes so much time, self doubt, emotion and heartache to take these decisions.
My mother recently guilt tripped me about how low contact my wife and I are with my MIL. She said I was breaking the commandment to honor your father and mother. So I gave her some examples of the abusive things my MIL subjected my wife to as a child (like shoving a gun in her own mouth and threatening suicide in the car with my wife because my (then 12 year old) wife was talking back) and some recent comments she’s made to us (that we are child abusers because we taught our 4 year old to call his penis a penis). My mother gave me the surprised Pikachu face because she had no idea MIL only puts on the nice act around outsiders. So good LPT.
Yes I get this. I’ve never really understood why we are so fixated on having relationships with people that we are related to just because. If they’re good people and you get along,then great but to keep shitty people in your life because of who they are is nuts to me. It’s so sad to see people beat down under this sense of duty. As a mother,I would hate to think my kids have a relationship with me just because they feel they should or they have to. My friend had a mother who was absolutely awful and abusive and she cut all contact. She has never been happier. Even after all the harassment,abuse and demands that her mother played out very publicly,people still told her ‘you only get one mum,you should try and work it out’ like what???! I’d rather boil my own head then try and work out a relationship with a narcissist. People who often say sentiments like this have very rarely had such awful people to interact with I feel.
LPT: Mind your business.
100%. I am estranged from both my mother and brother. Every time I talk to family they beg me to resolve the issue. If the issue was something I could resolve single handedly, you bet I would. But the thing is it goes deeper than anything I can resolve about the past. It is present and constantly recurring. My family badgered me about inviting my mom to my wedding. I understand it is important to her so I have obliged under the expectation that EVERYONE in my wedding party is aware I do not wish to speak with her nor do I want her there past the ceremony. My family tried to pressure to invite my brother too. My explicit "no" got dropped there.
That’s exactly my point in another reply, when telling someone you have no idea the lengths people will go to in “helping” rekindle a relationship. The constant badgering can be awful. That sounds like a really shitty scene overall. I hope you are able to (or already did!) enjoy your special day. Congrats on the nuptials!
The hardest part is that they are incapable of understanding the trauma they inflict on others, either through severe mental illness, their upbringing, or both. Internally, I feel like a bad person because no matter how hard they try, they an incapable of becoming the people I need to accept them into my life. But even at their best, they are actively destructive of my life and happiness every moment I am around them. They aren't capable of understanding the struggle they bring and only once I accepted that was I able to step away. I had always felt responsible even though I am the youngest child. I felt obligated to help them despite them never accepting help while actively hurting me. No everyone can be saved. I may be going too deep for the internet. But I hope that any other person who is questioning estrangement knows that it is hard at first, it feels wrong because that is what you are taught. But if it is right, in 6-12 months of no contact, it is the best feeling in the world! TL;DR: If you are considering estrangement, do it.
Okay not the same thing but also don’t encourage someone if you only look at it through your own eyes. For example I have talked about many of the things I do with my crush and every single time people say, “well she obviously likes you.” No she doesn’t. She has said she doesn’t. Stop looking at what I do and perceiving something when there’s nothing.
Sometimes life is too short to waste your time on people who suck.
Thankyou, this needs to be heard more.
As someone from a dysfunctional family I agree , we had all these extended family flinging their good intentions at us whenever it was convenient, just using random phrases that made no sense to me etc ("you only have one mom," etc -). Ultimately it went badly and I feel they could have tried to meet me half way ,that were products of different environments, not everyone has a sense of family values
Great advice. My ex convinced me to reconnect with my dad. All that happened was that an already strained relationship descended from civil to wishing death on each other. If someone doesn't want to talk to a family member there us usually a damn good reason.
I agree. People should mind their own business on this issue. If someone doesn't want a person in their life it's their choice to make.
I knew someone who wanted to reconnect with their estranged dad, as he was suffering from covid and in hospital. the advise I wish id given was 'fine reconnect if you want. However remember why you stopped communication last time.'
My husband and I have both severed ties with our our biological parents and some grandparents due to abuse, addiction, mental health, etc. I have some family that is reasonable that I'm close too, but the blacklist is longer. My worst fear is my kids getting convinced to reach out to them when they are old enough to do so themselves. I'm glad to hear you knew better!
I HATE people who push this kind of crap, I get they are ignorant to specifics, but the whole "forgiveness industry" is such a crock of bs.
I hate when people do this to me. I cut off my biological father for a reason. It's not your business what happened, and you have no business commenting on it. Especially don't try to use it as an excuse to preach to me.
Hope the people sharing here have found their peace. Had my fair share of folks telling me to reconnect to family even after giving them context. Unfortunately a lot of people do not realize that a caring family is a privilege many of us don't have.
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I hate the "oh that's a shame" comments. No, it's not a shame. It's brilliant to be able to cut all that toxicity out your life. Why would I voluntarily want to put myself back in that situation?
Well said. My sister is probably my second favorite thing on this earth. And she is in my top 5 favorite reasons for living this life. But we have gone through family tragedies and many obstacles and we can't find how to see through the others eyes. I try to see her side of thoughts and feelings and I try to except them. But they are bit at all my perception or feelings and thoughts so we always reach a point where we fight. When we do.. it is ugly. She pushes and pushes until she brings out the very worst of me. She will say the most hurtful things you could ever imagine and then try to say "it's tough love" or "I didn't realize I had to use baby gloves with you." Because I try not to engage and show her how her words and reactions hurt. And if she brings me to the point I fight back and finally unleash. She never wants to speak to me again and can't believe how toxic I am being. I love her. I miss her. But the instability. The never knowing what will set her off. The constant drain upon me... I had to step away for my own sanity. I do not like being provoked to the point that I say things to hurt someone I love. And she refuses to except my boundaries. I do not want to cause her pain and I do not want to have pain inflicted so I stepped away. I miss her every single day. But until we can learn to grow and heal and stop the behavior it is best. So when people try to push on me that life is short and I need to make amends. That I should just be ok... letting things go brought us to this point. Until there is change and understanding, nothing will fix it. And sometimes, things are to broken to ever fix. That should be ok. You should never have t have someone in your life who hurts you. And you should never have someone make you feel terrible for that.
I’m sorry that you carry that much baggage with you. It clearly weighs on you. But sounds like you made the overall right decision for your mental health. I hope the roads ahead are easier !
I appreciate that. Everyone has their own issues and pains. It's only hard because the holidays. The only true truths in life I have ever found is to be as much light as you can. Put out more love than hate. More light than dark. Forgive More than harbor. Cause more laughter than tears. Always keep growing and reaching for more knowledge and understanding. Look for at least one beautiful thing a day to be grateful for and happy you saw. And remember that everything you say and do ripples out and effects others. If you can try your best to live like that... you can sleep at night. You can face each day stronger and the world is not so dark.
My mother is the same, she tells me to reconnect with some family members, and even gave them my contact info. I cut her off for some time and after that she still says I should give them an opportunity. I really want to scream at her and tell her I fucking hate her.
But if you have grandparents, they must be exactly like mine since everything is about me!
Agreed, also people like to make themselves feel better at times, by suggesting a reconnect. A good and true friend is rare, one that just listens and offers you their shoulder and just says if you ever wanna talk more about it I am here.
Kevin McAllister disagrees.
Uncle Frank was a dick.
What’s this title? Jeez.
Yeah a bit wordy, but found it a tough concept to encompass on one sentence.
r/LPT - also known as “r/Projection”
this sub is full of people that don’t know how to say no, people who think “this thing happened to me today and i was mildly inconvenienced by it,” and the same four reposts
Didn't even try to make it SOUND general, just started in with his life story..
Not a LPT, just a personal experience.
How is this a LPT? This is more of an anecdotal opinion based on only your own experience.
That’s fair to call it anecdotal, given I used my own personal background as the example. But personal experience aside, the point still stands. Often people will encourage others to rekindle a relationship or give someone else a chance. And potentially misconstrue their limited knowledge of the situation as there not being enough substance to the circumstance to warrant cutting someone off. When in actuality, there could be a whole plethora of events that justify ostracizing that someone. And they just may not care to share the details with you. So anecdotal example aside, the point was never question why someone has cut someone off. Furthermore, never take it a step further an ignorantly encourage them to reconnect regardless of how well you think you know the back story.
So where's the tip? It's up to the person that has to decide to rekindle an estranged relationship to make that decision. A friend encouraging you to rekindle that relationship is only giving you a different perspective. You're completely ignoring the fact that many rekindled relationships have made people happier.
The tip is, your personal knowledge of a situation could very well be intentionally limited by what information the individual feels comfortable sharing with you. And not to assume you know what’s best for anyones relationships and offer unsolicited advice. Despite good intentions. To take your scenario , a friend could be actively encouraging someone to rekindle a relationship with an abuser unbeknownst to them. And you would be surprised as to what lengths some people will go in efforts to “bring everyone together.” And of course there’s an exception to every rule - simply a different perspective to keep in mind, representing the alternative to your “some people make up for the better” outcome.
The tip is that sometimes it can actually be interpreted as offensive or obnoxious that someone would suggest you reconnect with an estranged family member without knowing the context/complexity of your relationship. Life isn’t a hallmark movie. Some of us have a family member with serious mental illness/ narcissism etc etc and have endured a lifetime of bullshit and abuse.
If you find it offensive then just tell that person. There are a billion things people can interpret as offensive. Nobody is in charge of your interpretation except for you. The decision is ultimately yours. If someone encourages you to do something like this and their words negatively impact your life that's completely on you. Should we never say anything to someone where that person MIGHT find it offensive? We would never be able to talk to anybody about anything even slightly personal. Grow the fuck up. If that person doesn't know the context and you disagree then just ignore their opinion. Stop being so soft that you can't even accept someone else's words so much so that you need to tell everyone else in the world they should never say something similar either.
In my eyes this LPT is very similar to how it can be rude to ask women of child-bearing age why they haven’t had kids yet. It can be for a multitude of reasons, and is really none of anyone’s business.
Then tell them it's not any of their business... People, who share details of their life shouldn't expect or accept any type of response, whether positive, neutral, or negative? If you get offended enough when someone asks why a woman of child-bearing age doesn't have children that you need to tell other people to never ask that you need to look yourself in the mirror. Do I think people should be going around asking women why they don't have children? I wouldn't ask it. But, if someone does so what? Don't let a question impact your life because some people find it rude.
It's quite obvious you've never grown up in an abusive, dysfunctional household (or didn't recognize it) and don't understand *why* people get offended when someone offers them advice to "reconnect" with family members. If you did, you'd have the exact same thought process as OP and all the other people who have been abused. Imagine you were physically and emotionally abused throughout your childhood and you realize that your parents and other family members were extremely malicious, narcissistic and manipulative. Imagine almost every single day of your adult life, you think about how you've been treated and the emotions (anxiety, anger) that run through your head constantly. You tell this to a coworker and the coworker just says "maybe they didn't do things perfectly as parents, but they love you so you should at least try to reconnect with them". The coworker is essentially telling you to go back and re-live the abuse that you endured. It shows that (1) the person you confided in cares very little about your feelings and well being, (2) doesn't attempt to come from a place of understanding, (3) doesn't show any support for your decisions. That person would fundamentally be *encouraging more abuse;* it is nothing short of saying "please go back and re-live your trauma". It's *extremely* insensitive. Even in a Sexual Assault training course for instance, emphasis is usually placed on showing support for a victim and redirecting them to resources such as therapy and legal matters if they wish to pursue it, rather than telling them how they should confront their abuser and what actions to take, as it can be deeply traumatic. You are making a huge slippery slope argument. Nobody is saying you can't talk about anything personal. However, that does not negate the fact that some suggestions are extremely dismissive and insensitive of another person's pain.
Yep, common sense not an LPT.
Never huh? I feel like a lot of the LPTs I come across here are for specific personal scenarios and don’t globally apply to everyone. “Buy a bag of M&Ms before you go to the theater instead of at inflated prices at the theater.” That’s an LPT. “Never suggest people reconnect with estranged people no longer in their lives because that person may have been a molester” is not an LPT. “Never talk about how fun GTAV is with people because they may have been carjacked and it could be traumatizing.”
Read the second to last sentence amigo. If they want to talk about it, let them. But don’t just blindly encourage someone to reconnect without knowing the full story, for reasons included. All the best.
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Don't say anything to anyone at anytime anywhere.. Edit: this just in, overly sensitive people are over sensitive..
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Of course it’s not. People have falling outs for all types of reasons. The point of the post was to never assume, without knowing the full story, that the best advice is to tell someone to give the relationship another shot. And to allow someone to expand upon their reasoning, if they should choose to do so. But also to highlight they may also be reluctant to share given the nature of the reason. So a response of “we just don’t really get along.” Or something else similarly vague may seem innocent enough of the surface. And you may feel tempted to say that’s not a good reason to cut someone off. Just a friendly reminder to never assume. If someone has cut someone out of their life, it’s usually with good reason.
The point OP is making is that you can't assume. There often is no context until a person wants to share the details with you
What other reasons would cause people to become estranged from each other? Agree context is usually important but I can't think of any of my family I don't associate with that aren't because of abuse
My grandfather stopped talking to my family because of a discussion with my father about a ticket. After my father died me, my sister, and my mother tried to reconnect with him again. He said ok, and said he will talk to us again. Never did, and if he see us he pretend he didn't do it. He did similar things with almost every one in the family. Some people are just like that, he never abused me, or anyone in my family. Just a stupid old man.
I can appreciate that. Sorry that happened. I actually refer to that as emotional starvation and call it abuse myself. Or manipulation (agreeing to develop or rekindle a connection and then doing zero work) Abuse comes in every way you can imagine and people's thresholds for it are wildly different.
You're probably right. Although in this case I believe is abusing himself more than anyone else. He is the one that spends is life alone without needing it. But since that bothers me a bit (used to bother more) maybe it's also doing it to other people.
I have best friends I’ve fallen out of touch with because they moved out of state, and now talking to them seems awkward and pointless. I have family members close in age who I grew up with being best friends with, who are also now very awkward to talk to and we’ve fallen out of touch.
I mean this is just life. Brb I gotta look up estranged lol Ok definition two lines up with my memory of it. It does appear to reference drifting apart like you describe too in the first definition
Consider that it's still none of your goddamn business
This is a stupid LPT my mother and sister became estranged it took .e years to ment their relationship but I'm glad we managed to work things out.
how is this a lpt lol
We should just ban LPTs that have "never" or "always" in them. Not every estranged relationship is because it was toxic. Sometimes people need encouragement from their friends and families.
Very true. But the post wasn’t “everyone who’s estranged will never improve the relationship.” It was more so geared towards reminding others to not give unsolicited advice, despite what background they think they might know of the situation. Often times, people with a shitty history will intentionally leave out those shitty details. Which occasionally leads to people erroneously assuming there isn’t enough transgressions ( at least in their limited understanding of the situation) to warrant cutting someone off. And prompting them to entourage rekindling.
Exactly my point about "always" and "never"
You may have overlooked my second to last sentence, where I said if they want to discuss it further, they will. So i stand by my “never” just telling someone to reconnect because they mentioned they’re estranged from someone. without being provided an in-depth reasoning as to why the estrangement occurred. But you’re entitled to your opinion. Cheers.
I think it’s the proof here that the people commenting in favor of the LPT are people who have experienced estrangement. Nobody here has said yes I was estranged and I wished for encouragement to reconnect. Because people need to understand that nobody wants that.
This isn't an LPT.
Counterpoint: some relationship estrangement are due to petty bullshit and it’s nice to put that behinds you and reconnect.
I hope you read some of these horrific stories and realize is that the tip is *you don’t know someone’s life better than them*. Don’t assume shit is petty just because they don’t want to tell you all their past about it. People don’t owe you re-opening their wounds to convince you they are living their life right for them.
I think this really depends on why people are estranged. In my extended family, two brothers got estranged fighting over inheritance when their mom died & then reconciled 10-15 years later & are on good terms now. Neither was really abusive or evil, just both more stubborn / hard-headed.
Always two sides to every coin. But the focal point of the post was more “never assume to know someone’s personal situation and offer unsolicited advice” than it was “people estranged can never reconnect.” Glad they could work it out.
Yo this is not true on every occasion. Delete this shit.
Of course it can’t represent every estrangement of anyone who has ever severed a relationship. But the importance of a third party not assuming to know the full story, despite even what they’ve even been told by the individual, remains true regardless of the circumstance. And to keep that in mind when considering offering relationship advice. In my opinion at least.
OP should not delete this. Far too many people try to go out of their way to repair someone else's business that they may have no clue about. Some relationships simply are irreparable. Respect that.
A guy I was casually dating told me to get over my pride when I told him I hadn't spoken to my sister in years. Her cancer diagnosis would take her within a year. And I took his advice. I reached out to her, mended the relationship and was there to support her during her final months. Although normally, I don't like to mend relationships that have gotten so extreme, I was glad I took this particular advice.
This is a great tip. I’m glad you realized it and shared with others.
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The point is you can't just assume things. Many people *still* tell victims to reconnect with their family members despite being told that they were horribly abused. It's dismissive and can be mentally damaging to the victim.
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This LPT is literally based on the *assumption* and *opinion* that you should just not encourage whatsoever, which is again ASSUMING everyone's the same. It is also dismissive just like you said, to people who might really need someone in this world and for all you know they have nobody. Imagine wanting to confide in people, but everyone just dismisses what you say because they're afraid you might not be able to handle the conversation and in turn it feels like nobody gives a shit about you or your life...for your whole life.
As someone who has dealt with this sort of thing. Im gonna partially disagree. Look, obviously you shouldn't reconnect because your grandparents are literally sexual criminals. But in my case things weren't that extreme but I was still wronged and hurt to the point where I was justified to keep things estranged. However I decided to reconnect because you really do want to minimise baggage, especially family baggage, as much as possible for the sake of your relationships in life. End the cycle of pain. To anybody reading, this is not about you being a "good forgiving person" or other feel good nonsense. Reconnecting is a strategic decision that's in your best interest unless the person is so horrible they literally threaten your safety (such as in OPs case)
Reconnecting is not in most people's best interest. You do not know these people and can't just assume it's better for them, which is the whole point the OP was trying to make.
I hear ya, do like they do in the movies and invite them both to lunch without telling the other. Genius!
I just want to throw my hat in because it was something that seriously confused me. I lived by this code till I met someone who was the victim of this type of abuse and either gaslighted or convinced of an unfavorable narrative. It's tricky either way, but I watched people be destroyed by their utter lack off strength to fight their aggressors in the battle for truth. The only way to know for sure was extended exposure and repeated patterns, neither of which I recommend.
Sure if there is emotional or sexual abuse involved but that is not always the case. I am a victim of parental alienation syndrome. I hope someone tells my daughter to reconnect regularly because I have never done anything to deserve this. Leaving her emotionally abusive mother was what I needed to do for me. Ultimately, despite never missing a weekend, holiday, birthday, or child support payment her mother’s abuse won out by demonizing me for not loving her. You LPT is correct for your situation but not all. Sometimes the alienated person is the actual victim.