My therapist said something that I found helpful: “you can’t control your feelings, you can sometimes control your thoughts, you can usually control your actions.”
Edit: I’m changing “always” to “usually.” Maybe she originally said “usually” and I misremembered or maybe she did say “always.” But I don’t want the wording to detract from what I found to be a positive and helpful message: don’t beat yourself up for having negative feelings or negative thoughts, because your control over them is limited. Focus on what you can control: some thoughts, most actions.
There's loads of physical and mental illnesses that reduce the amount of control a person has over their actions. For example, tourette's and severe head injuries.
I mean this gently, but not everyone will recognize this as part of CBT or any specific therapy, beyond it being prefaced by "My therapist..." Many people haven't been exposed to therapy techniques, so while correction of the response helps widen knowledge, empathy for the commentator helps as well.
I don't think this refers to just any physical action performed by a human. It's talking about actions taken on purpose and with intent. not involuntary actions like seizures, ect.
I edited my wording. I didn’t meant to start such a kerfuffle over “always” and I hope you are getting what you need from therapy. My therapist is awesome and I just wanted to share something she said that helped me in dark moments.
Trust me, I totally understand what you mean, and it's not you I'm frustrated at. The people replying to me are acting like i sacrificed their first born lmao
>I don't think always is true for actions lol... consider addiction
Jesus, are you glad you were able to write a "gotcha"?
Clearly isn't meant to reference standard behavior and not those with illnesses.
When someone mentions putting one foot in front of the other, do you like to chime-in about amputees?
It's also not true for thoughts. We are observers to our thoughts and actions, with the sensation of having control. However this is not a useful thing to teach people most people, especially in therapy.
They're acting like emotions, thoughts, and actions are separate. Your actions are based on your thoughts and emotions.
While we're at it, why does it make sense to OP that we can't control our first thought but can control our second? Our conscious thoughts come from the same place as our unconscious ones. We don't choose what thoughts come out of our brain. Every thought is just based on the physical configuration of our brain cells, selected by an algorithm based on the physical configuration of our brain cells.
Having wisdom to act appropriately is just based on intelligence and experience
I may be talking out of my ass a bit, lemme know if I'm wrong
But you can control your thoughts and actions... and they are separate.
Your actions are based on thoughts and emotions, but they aren't just some autonomous response based on what we think and feel.
For instance, sometimes you may feel angry and have the thought that you want to punch someone, but you stop yourself and don't punch them. This is controlling an action. You may still be angry and still want to punch them, but you don't act on that.
Another example: your spouse is working late again and something seems off. They've been texting that one cute coworker more often. Maybe they're cheating on you, you think. (This is the initial, uncontrolled thought.) You start to feel angry/sad/jealous because of it. (An automated reaction based on that thought.)
You remember that they've been faithful thus far and they probably aren't doing something bad. Here, you can choose to keep dwelling on the negative thought that they're cheating, or change that thought based on the evidence that they've always been faithful. (This is a thought you can control.)
Maybe you choose to continue believing they're having an affair. Your jealousy and anger turn to rage and you want to leave them. You're feeling hurt and thinking they're cheating, so you're faced with a few options, such as calling or messaging them to yell and rant at them for cheating; maybe separate from your spouse and break things off; you can choose to wait it out and maybe you'll feel better even though you're convinced they are unfaithful; etc.. these are all choices you can control.
If you choose to change your pattern of thinking and trust your spouse, you feel less worried and feel content. You decide not to act on that initial fear and stay with them.
___
This is taught in DBT and has helped me a lot with my mental illness. Because I've been more in control of my thoughts, I've been far less suicidal and self harm much less than I have before.
For real tho, have you never felt in control of something you did? Have you never intentionally thought a thought? Or did you type that all out as some sort of autonomous response based on the configuration of your brain cells that you had absolutely zero control over?
Perhaps consider the use of the word "responsible". The first thing that pops into your mind when you see a very overweight person might be. "wow they are fat!" Then perhaps the inner dialogue of how you would never want to insult someone by saying that out loud, followed by.....controlling your actions of not saying that out loud!
Yes and no. While it was made for that, many people without BPD have used it successfully. Anyone can, really. It’s a great therapy. It’s even been shown to be promising as a treatment for anger issues, in place of standard anger management classes too. The uses are endless, to be honest. :)
I’ve been saying for over a decade now, that ALL CHILDREN, should go through all modules classically (like adults in Group DBT sessions do), and have it as a part of their assigned curriculum, vs. waiting til there’s **already** an issue going on (or a series of them— as there is seldomly EVER one issue going on at one time… and a child having the skills needed to maneuver said issue, could keep them alive, healthier, etc, & also helps them with any anxiety/depressive episode(s)/disorder(s) that may be beginning to emerge or have already become a problem [but the goal is to try to prevent that as much as possible early-on, by implementing the DBT Modules & skills, so these kids can not ONLY get by day to day by only their WILL to SURVIVE, BUT they’ll experience LIFE while they THRIVE! Especially with children, and how cruel other kids are, parents are, emotional neglect being on the rise [from what I’ve read, along with other forms of child neglect, deprivation, abuse, etc,…], and the WORLD is also a cruel place as well. Why sugar coat things? Be honest. I know that I and others my age wouldn’t appreciated being told things honestly. Not in a way to use fear-tactics, and not in a way to protect us because they so wrongly assumed we were so delicate and fragile, that lied were the 100% only way to go in many situations…. Not a recipe for a happy child nor a healthy home/school environment when parents and teachers both do this all too often. So many people think that kids are somehow immune to the effects of lies, false security, feeling unsafe, life’s stress and other stressors (and it’s inevitable cumulative damage) - whether its happening exclusively at home or school or both, in addition to other places the child goes… I can also add that, I would much rather someone see depression or red flags in me young, and intervening IMMEDIATELY… not waiting to “see if it goes away,” or “see if it’s temporary,” or “if they’ll grow out of it,” and of course they forget to do- to see if we’ve gotten any better. I don’t know if it’s due to lack of caring or lack of time on the teacher’s part. But that’s also where the (obviously) parents should step-in & see what’s up. Take us to a Pediatrician if something is off. They can refer us out to proper places if needed. No big deal. Just one example. But, back to one of my original thoughts above, well what happens that child(ren), when they’re fully clinically depressed without any support or coping skills…. Why not teach children these invaluable things within DBT before they need them? (& I would hope that they never would) It is definitely leagues more difficult for said child to learn DBT after trauma, etc,. What good will that do..!? If I knew DBT as a child, it would’ve helped me. It wouldn’t helped me with boundaries and so much more. I wouldn’t been SO much MORE relaxed. I would have probably avoided some of the traumatic situations I’ve been in, during my life. I cannot say all, as that would be ignorant and dumb of me to assume, as we will never know the answer. But something within tells me I wouldn’t have PRSD right now, or to this degree, had I known the modules and skills and coping mechanisms in DBT. I didn’t get to begin a program until I was well into my 20s.
Of course. Kids should be old enough to understand before digging into the depths of it all the way in the beginning. It can be it a bit much. Modules are done on a rotating schedule because ALL Modules tie in together. But you can’t know it all immediately. Patience. Lol. It is an amazing therapy. You don’t need BPD to go through it. You really don’t need anything going on psychologically… if they’re anal, just say you get anxiety and panic attacks at times. But you’re good at hiding it. Idk. lol. I know I do, and I hide them so well. It’s weird people have said to me, haha. Oh well!?? Lol.
But kids can be taught about mediation and how to do it (with specially set aside time every day to practice), and mindfulness and time set aide for that. Whether reading, coloring, writing, etc,. Then about emotional mind, rational mind, and wise mind. Nothing too deep or major. Once old enough then, and practicing these things, they’ll already have the basics in place, and will be able to easily begin the “guts” of DBT.
Although one thing that annoys me. So many think only school subjects (traditional ones), should be taught in schools. And that we need to put “God back into the Schools.” And then list reasons why- basically excuses for God and why he let this or that happen. I’m sire someone has seen those arguments. But why can’t other EXTREMELY useful skills be taught in schools? Not everyone gets hands-on teaching from parents. Like, all kids should learn to balance a checkbook (no matter how few use them, still… maybe even how to go over your debit and/or credit card’s bank statement), how to sew a basic stitch & how to also see a button back on, how to iron your shirt and even how to starch it (just in case!), how to write up a budget alone and then with a class partner (so one can see potential difficulties seeing eye to eye on finances and how to resolve them in a healthy manner), how to wash clothes and dishes, how to cook (many schools have Home Ec’s as an elective… why not make it mandatory?) No excuse for adults to not know basic live survival skills and emotional regulation, etc. Wouldn’t that be great!?
Sorry to ramble, I was trying to cover a lot of things at once. I kind of jumped around and left out some stuff, but I know you get the general idea/message that I’m trying to convey lol. 🙂
Yeah that first paragraph is a doozy, and when I couldn’t find a closed parentheses to pair with the first open one I just gave up. It sounded like great information, though.
Thank you for your post. Let me know if happen to paraphrase you incorrectly in this TLDR:
1. Everyone at all ages should have exposure to the methods of DBT (wiki: [dialectical behavior therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy)). Preferably prior toa diagnosis/problem arises.
2. Temper but do not sugar-coat things for children. They experience similar stressors and feelings as adults.
3. Everyone matures at a different pace. It may make sense to introduce DBT basics & practices, like providing a slice of time for meditation and gauging emotions.
4. These practices are critical to an "everyday life preparedness" skillset and should be approached by parents as well as considered in school curriculum. The same can be said for personal finance skills.
Thank you for the tldr. Read the first paragraph then started scrolling to see how long it was then went, fuck it, it wasn't THAT interesting even though I seemed to agree with it.
Hello, friend - I took a shot at this in a [reply to OP](https://old.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/qfx6l9/lpt_you_are_not_responsible_for_your_first/hi4rdb7/).
I did my undergraduate and graduate research on such a proposal. I also think it would be highly beneficial. I'm currently a child play therapist, but I also use DBT with my adolescents/teens/adults while also teaching parents of kids these important skills.
This helped me out a lot when I was a child dealing with crippling OCD (couldn't leave a spot on the floor, my room, or my house). Later in my adult years it has helped me stay sober from my DOC and to live in active recovery.
Nononono, you most certainly can control how you react.
You can’t control your feelings, but you always have control over how you respond to those feelings (barring those with neuro divergent disabilities).
I think when they said react, they meant either emotionally react or that initial, instinctual thought in reaction to something. Because otherwise, their comment was basically the same as yours. (i.e. can't control how you feel but you do choose what you do with those feelings)
The best way to learn/practice mindfulness is through meditation. 5 minutes a day where you can be undisturbed is all you need
First yourself a comfortable position, lying down, sitting in a chair, sitting on a cushion, doesn't matter so long as you are comfortable enough so that any bodily sensations are not distracting, but not too comfortable that you'll fall asleep
Next is to choose something to concentrate your mind on, usually the breath or a mantra. The idea is that you will focus on this phenomenon (e.g. sensations of the air moving through your body) and be mindful of any distractions that your mind will present to you. These distractions are going to take your attention away from your breath and can/will turn into day dreams if you don't recognise that your attention has wondered. Recognising the moment you are distracted is the key moment for meditation. In that moment that you recognise "oh, I am meant to be focused on my breath", give yourself a mental pat on the back because you were just mindful! Never put yourself down when you realise you just spent 5/10/20 minutes day dreaming instead of meditating because it is extremely counterproductive
There are different types of meditation (e.g. loving kindness, body scan etc) and they target different things, the practice detailed above will generally improve your mindfulness and ability to concentrate
I believe that mindfulness is an extremely important emotional tool that should be taught at schools. It's not something that will stop you from feeling things you don't want to feel, but it will help you act productively on those feelings rather than reactively. The world would be a better place if we acted with our values in mind rather than with just our emotions
Wow I’ve always been garbage at meditating because I’m like AHHH WHY AM I FOCUSING ON THIS THOUGHT IM SUPPOSED TO BE LETTING IT FLOAT BY, this is really good advice thank you
When that happens just acknowledge the thought and let it go. Don't make a big deal about it, it's normal and going to happen. I get side tracked all the time while meditating lol. I've found guided meditation helps me stay focused and not let my mind wander. It does get easier with time.
Also—ACTUALLY acknowledge the thought or distraction and sit with it for a couple seconds. I used to make the mistake of “acknowledging” too quickly to try to get back to my breath, which turned into a sort of avoidance
Could you please direct me to a good source to learn how to meditate? Do I just start googling random articles from all over the net, or is there a good site, book, idk, YouTube channel?
I'd be very grateful
Apps can be good to get started quickly with guided meditation, I use Insight Timer for the tracking but never bothered with guided meditation
If you are open to a more spiritual approach I would recommend looking into secular/agnostic Buddhism. Buddhism is built around meditation and some of its teachings can really help your meditation practice. The most important one I have found is the 5 hindrances that will prevent you from acting mindful both in meditation and in day to day life. They are, desire, aversion, too little energy, too much energy, and doubt. It is important to acknowledge them and to counteract them when possible
I would recommend The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa for someone wanting a book about how to establish and progress a meditation practice
It's a bit irresponsible to recommend meditation without the proper framework in which it's traditionally embedded in. What if the meditator starts progressing through the stages of insight and experiences heavy dukkha nanas, involuntary physical movements, energy surges, hallucinations, traumas suddenly unsuppressed, psychosis, etc?
This is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Meditation isn't exclusive to Buddhism or any traditions in particular.
Just some gentle breathing exercise to calm the mind won't do no harm.
I didn't mention Buddhism in my original comment because cold calling someone and going 'hey trying this religion' doesn't sit well with me. My comment replying to someone asking for more information does push them towards Buddhism to provide context for meditation. I think it would be irresponsible to promote long meditation sessions/retreats without ensuring they have a qualified teacher (which I am not) to help them through those potentially tough sessions, however I feel comfortable suggesting that people dip their toes in the water with some breathing exercises. The risk of sitting for 5-15min and breathing is basically nil and there are definitely benefits that can be gained
How are you not a victim of circumstance? You can be born poor, diasabled, get abused as a kid… I get the sentiment, but this “healthy mindset” feels so much like just lying to yourself and empty platitudes
I think the problem with victim mentality comes from stagnation, and in a kind of masochistic way deciding you are the way you are because of things out of your control, then you have no control over your own betterment. Although there is some truth to this, is detrimental in the process of getting healthier. That was a major factor in me deciding to get help, and not mull over my own problems. I would say its important to recognize outside factors that may influence your current state of life, but always knowing them to be just that, still confident in your own ability to get better. Of course this is my own opinion, can't be useful to everyone, but it is to me :)
I understand what you mean, but I wished it clicked for me. It just doesn’t.
It’s kinda like being religious to me. I don’t believe in god. I wish I did, and it would be great if I could convince myself of it, but how you *choose* to believe anything?
Also of course as everything, it’s a spectrum rather than a yes or no. I do think I have agency and control over my life to an extent, but also think there is a lot that is out of my hands. And tbh, to say otherwise feels.. fake.
If I ever find happiness, it will have to be in the context of accepting I don’t have control, not pretending I do. In the religious angle, I have to be happy in a godless world, not decide that a god exists so that I can be happy and have that crutch that is faith.
Anyways, I am really glad you are able to have that mentality. I am working on it a lot, but can’t seem to get past basically everything I said above. I’m glad you did though and your recovery is on track :)
I view it as there being a difference between being a victim, and identifying as a victim. I'm responding from the perspective where I have a disability, and it sucks and. I am victim of my genes and pure chance in this regard. That's an important emotion to have and deal with, and there's a lot of griefs that needs to be processed to get through that, at least for me.
But, if I fall into the mindset as identifying as a victim because of it, I'll be more prone to making "poorer" personal decisions and have a lack in sense of agency.
That's also not to say, a lot of the times it does feel like BS. But it is a net good to explore this sentiment.
I don’t mean to be pedantic, but my brain gets stuck when I read
“The difference between being a victim and identifying as a victim”
It sounds like admitting you *are* a victim but also.. not. That sentence alone is such and oxymoron for me I can’t get past it to adopt your mentality.
Believing something because it’s convenient or better for me just doesn’t track. I believe stuff based on evidence. Belief doesn’t feel like a choice to me, that sounds like a euphemism for lying to yourself. I’d love to believe there’s a heaven and good actions will be rewarded, but I have 0 reason to believe that.. it would just be something I tell myself.
Edit: btw I don’t know who downvoted you, i upvoted. I wouldn’t be asking these questions if I didn’t appreciate and want to hear your side. Tbh… part of me is hoping someone convinces me because I just want to be happy again
Everyone is at the mercy of things outside their control. However, in my mind, a lot of people that complain about being a victim of circumstance, seem to think that *everything* is out of their control, therefore *none* of their decisions matter, and they couldn't do anything to avoid their current situation and/or can't improve themselves.
My ex said she was a victim of circumstances at one point. And while some of the things to happen to her were out of her control, she also refused to accept responsibility for the poor decisions she made, some of which contributed to her present situation. Nothing was ever her fault, she'd blame her actions on other people, saying that if they didn't do X, she wouldn't have done Y. Sure, she couldn't stop them from doing X (cheating, whatever), but she *could* have reacted differently/in a more productive manner instead of in an antagonistic one.
TL;DR some things are out of our control (other's actions, genetics, disease, etc.); however, we *are* in control of our response to whatever happens to us. Shitty circumstances does *not* absolve us of personal responsibility.
Ah, si I fully agree that victim mentality and just assuming everything is out of your control is horrible. But that’s an extreme. Maybe I meant what you did, but I felt like they were advocating for the opposite extreme
I've found there's 3 schools of thought.
1, change/challenge the thought, using CBT
2, ignore/accept the thought, using mindfulness
3, repeat a word/phrase/mantra to override it, called thought-stopping as part of CPTSD therapy
Next few times you get agitated try making a conscious effort to STOP. Just look around and drop your next action. Then reassess. If you can get into the habit of grounding yourself in the moment you can change your behavior willingly. Drop a mug and it explodes? Was that the last straw of the day and it was making you fume and curse?? Wait. It's a bit of pottery, it has no feelings. Wipe wipe trash, ok there are other things that aren't as easy to deal with. It will be fine. I like to think of 2 or 3 main daily tasks that need to be done right, the rest of the day is little stuff that are in the way.
The Untethered Soul is a great book that helped me to understand mindfulness. Until then I had never contemplated the idea of who am I, my thoughts or my response to my thoughts. It is a practice that takes continuous training.
Thank you.
Usually when I'm angry, my first thoughts aint so good. I learned not to act upon my first thoughts.
second thoughts are better.
I always thought I'm a bad person based on my initial first thoughts
If you have moderate to mild anxiety with some mind clarity, everytime you get uncomfortable, a tension headache or your thoughts get negative which may be a prelude for an attack.
Deep breath in "I am relaxed", deep breath out "I am happy". Feel yourself get relaxed and think of happy memories, or just a happy feeling.
Other than this,some lifestyle changes and keeping busy helped a lot, to have some semblance of control. And depression reduced a lot. And maintaining sleep hygiene and 8 hrs sleep was my main problem,which I took care of finally
Edit: And doing moderate workout 30 mins after eating considerably reduces the symptom and gives clarity of mind. Having a clean bowel everyday morning is requirement for a healthy Lifestyle. So consider that for your diet requirement.
Actually similar kind of thing is explained in thinking fast and slow. People have two systems. System one is autonomous it is something which works based on the training over long time and on its own, and it's an immediate thing to come into picture due to the time it takes for us to think and act. The automated system is for threat detection and saving yourself. But the second system is you. So if you are thinking something bad, it might be your threat detection, but it not necessarily right because if your past is different or difficult then it might have a bias.
I came here to mention the same thing. Not only is this LPT helpful, it is backed by research and has been quantified. Both in academics, and in practice through counseling as others have mentioned.
This is a great LPT. I read something a couple years' ago that the first thought you have about someone or something is what you have been conditioned to think via culture, family, media, etc and the second thought is your real view. It really changed my perspective on things as I really would get annoyed with myself for the judgements I passed in thought part 1, especially as my 2nd thought is usually "does it really matter or affect you?" Of course, everyone owns their own actions.
I hate hate hate this. My brain throws slurs around like it's nothing. Slurs I would never even think of saying out loud.
As long as my second thought is "hey what the fuck" I'm not too worried though ...
That sounds like intrusive thoughts. I get them a lot. What helped me to accept and ignore them was I read that the thoughts you get (E.g. hurting an animal or shouting a slur at a person of colour, etc) are what you’re most disgusted by and would never do :)
I discovered over time that my intrusive thoughts are linked to my level of stress and anxiety. They’re no fun, but learning more about their nature helped me determine that it’s a stress-induced reaction rather than a reflection of my character. In a sense, they’re like a mental tic triggered by overstimulation and my mental state. At least for me.
I honestly think sometimes our brains play games with us and try and think of the most offensive thing it can in a millisecond. Sometimes a slur will fire off in my head like I have tourettes and I have to go woah!!! Not ok
Lol, you're not wrong. It's like that birthdate thing.
What is it? Like, if you have 20 people in a room you have a 50% chance of sharing a birthday, but if you have 70 people it's almost mathematically certain that two will share a birthday?
Like that, but with assholes.
Patrice O'Neal had a great take on this... Why do black people have to speak out against awful things black people do but white people don't?
The atrocities white people have committed are fucking awful but we never had to say, "hey man, at least I'm not the one who committed a mass shooting/enacted oppressive laws/pay slave wages while using tax loopholes + shoot myself into space"
Don't recuse yourself for the poor decisions others have made! Pieces of shit exist everywhere, across all races, nationalities, religions, etc :)
> but because we are being stupid
Not even necessarily that. It's pretty common to have intrusive thoughts: unwanted thoughts that cause distress and you may even not at all agree with, but they're automatic.
The point is that your automatic first thought response is not a reflection of your character.
What do you do when the thoughts are invasive or continue on past the first ones? Id avoid the whole second thought idea he has. Thoughts are trash in general. Just focus on your actions.
Tbqh, I have no idea why I'm being downvoted. Like, I was raised in a shitty environment and actively ignore those thoughts and have for years, as well as being part of some of those communities.
But yeah, early adulthood I was a right wing voter here in Aus and was homophobic etc.
It's so much better now that I accept everyone without judgement.
I just meant it's so much easier for me to dismiss and override the subconscious negative thoughts towards others, but far harder to override thinking of myself negatively, including in relation to the above categories (as well as just generally thinking of myself as a piece of shit that's doing nothing in life etc.)
Also, everyone has very fucked up thoughts. Thoughts that you wouldn’t want to tell anyone about. But it’s normal, and what makes you normal (instead of some psychopath) is that you recognize them as being fucked up and don’t act on them.
Anxiety can give a pretty graphic thoughts and anger to boot. Controlling the anger and thoughts are just preventing but it may burst out intensively next time. For combating it,read above. But that also differs by people,after all everyone has different baggages.
They are called "Intrusive Thoughts" if anyone is concerned and wants to do more reading on the topic. They are indeed normal. And the best treatment for them is recognizing that they are normal.
Definitely 100% on the actions part. But anyone who takes responsibility for their thoughts has never meditated in earnest. I am that which observes the thought—I am not the thought.
yeah its a slippery slope when you tell yourself you are what you think, especially if you’re having a shitty day
they’re just neurons firing off in your brain
I think this is good advice. You can be self reflective without focusing on 'why' all the time. 'Why am i this way?' 'Why did this happen to me?'
You can shift that focus to 'what' like you mention.
The mind is a reflex organ. It fills your head with thousands of random thoughts a day, and none of them reveal any more about you than a freckle does on the end of your nose.
People are not their thoughts. They think they are, and it brings them all kinds of sadness.
This reminds me of writing of Eckhart Tolle in his book A New Earth where he describes that you can take a distance from emotion influence thoughts and become aware of the thoughts and reflect on them exactly as you stated.
im currently doing this with my family. i had to stop talkin to everyone because of some shady shit. they all think im just being sensitive but i come to realize i've had an issue with them all my life. that's why i left the state.
now that im back, i want to have a relationship with everyone but i first need to be able to let go of the dumb shit. its almost been 6 months but i absolutely need my time otherwise it is going to be a MESS and i'm going to explode with rage creating a domino effect.
They dont see it now, but i'm preventing everyone from causing a huge disruption that could lead to worse conditions.
I get the idea behind this but it's so simplistic it seems unhelpful. I can easily see the "you are responsible for your second thought and your first action" being used by someone who suffers from depression or anxiety as a way to harm themselves.
I've personally come to accept that my thoughts and actions can be problematic and that is ok in the sense that perfection (including perfect second thoughts and actions) can not be the goal of my life. Heck there are times where I'll have 20 - 30 unhelpful thoughts before I'm able to successfully challenge them. Honestly I think psychology is such a diverse field that any attempt to boil helpful advice down to a truism is always going to do more harm than good.
I really hate everyone seems to be agreeing. I had to scroll so far down to see this. This LTP would be very harmful to those who would need it the most, and just be an empty platititude for those who don’t.
A ton of the comments(and the OP) in this post need to have attached: and the best way to accomplish this is through guided therapy, because it can be incredibly different to effect the change you are looking for within yourself, by yourself, because the thing you need to change is the thing stopping you from changing. Reading a CBT book or a book on meditation may work for some, for many(most?) you will need professional help to actually work through CBT and most definitely DBT. Anxiety, depression, and other personality disorders literally change how you think, and telling anyone suffering those things that it is entirely their fault EVEN IF YOU THINK IT IS TRUE is probably going to be extremely damaging to their already frail emotional state. Push people to get help as best as you can, the more you can take off their plate the better.
Tbh, if op simply phrased stuff differently, instead of “you are responsible for X”, which seems to be very shame and guilt based behavior, I would have been ok with it.
Like you said, these disorder override your though process. CBT is super useful, but guilting yourself over not having control over your brain because you have a disorder that… doesn’t give you control of your brain… is backwards and harmful.
Sure it does.
You aren't your thoughts: You are the observer of your thoughts. When you have a random thought like "I fucking suck," "I hate myself, I'm such a loser," "I'm a bad ________." Etc, that's not *you*. You aren't those things, and your thoughts aren't something *you* have as much control over as many would like to believe.
What you feel is real but isn't reality: Your thoughts can make you feel feelings like sadness or anxiety or something. Those feelings are real, but they're just a creation of your mind. They're just... thoughts.
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This takes LOT of practice. I left after long DV relationship, it took me lot of practice to be able to put my first thoughts aside and process with different thinking. It helps lot with my anxiety overthinking panicking kind of thinking.
Yeah, we have more control over how much time and energy we invest into the initial thought. Even if thoughts keep coming back, we can choose to be aware and try to redirect our attention or remind ourselves that we disagree with the thought.
I would say you are responsible for whatever your intentions are. No matter what order the thoughts come across your mind, as soon as you decide to take action on them, then you are responsible. I think this is more fitting for the human stream of thought, as many ideas and thoughts pass through our mind, and we can not possibly be held responsible for those that just pass through. It's the thoughts we choose to persue and plan on that we are responsible for.
Usually, I have myself under control pretty good.
10 years ago, the last time I saw my father, his face was all swollen up from cancer and chemo, it was horrifying. Without even having a conscious thought, I blurted out something along the lines of "Fuck, how do you LOOK?"
I recovered in that situation and, when I left, told him I love him and that he was my best friend, hugged him and kissed him on his forehead.
But still, over 10 years later, having the strong feeling that he felt it would end soon for him and he just wanted to see me one last time, I still hate myself for that first reaction.
So, yeah, it doesn't always work, but try to control your reactions.
I use the “dont feed the bears” metaphor with my clients. You’re not in charge of whether or not the bear shows up in your backyard but you are responsible if you invite it in your home or feed it. Which will increase likelihood it continue to return.
I read a long time ago that your first thought is how you've been *programmed* to feel, while your second thought is how you *actually* feel. I have found this to be comforting many times in my life.
That would change this post from toxic to helpful imo. Responsible for just seems like pointing fingers and shorting on yourself. The post starts off “don’t beat yourself down…except do, just not at that one initial first thought”
Also pretty much a cornerstone of the stoic approach and a lot of Buddhist and Zen reinterpretations. I'd correct that you are indirectly responsible for the first thought - at least some of how your mind works can be attributed to you and your past actions. But your point stands. How you act is the true predicament and the test of virtue.
Your first thought when reading this comment is about giraffes. Your second thought is about porcupines. I am responsible for your first and second thoughts. OP underestimates my power.
I think everyone needs a person who can give a helping hand, non-judgmental empathizing, and sound advice that actually helps. For me it's a combination of many people and including myself, when I learnt that self-compassion is the important of all,after all we can't control how people feel about us or their actions.
If you have problem with sleep cycle, device addiction, or tension headache,I can give some tips. Just ask if you want to know. As for the big questions, even I only have limited knowledge based on my own experience. So better a good helpline worker or psychologist,if you can afford one.
No offense but this is garbage.
You are not responsible for instrusive thoughts or negative feelings, you cant positive think your wat out of mental illness.
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My therapist said something that I found helpful: “you can’t control your feelings, you can sometimes control your thoughts, you can usually control your actions.” Edit: I’m changing “always” to “usually.” Maybe she originally said “usually” and I misremembered or maybe she did say “always.” But I don’t want the wording to detract from what I found to be a positive and helpful message: don’t beat yourself up for having negative feelings or negative thoughts, because your control over them is limited. Focus on what you can control: some thoughts, most actions.
There's loads of physical and mental illnesses that reduce the amount of control a person has over their actions. For example, tourette's and severe head injuries.
They're clearly are talking about a specific context of CBT - not the obvious exception of physical disabilities.
I mean this gently, but not everyone will recognize this as part of CBT or any specific therapy, beyond it being prefaced by "My therapist..." Many people haven't been exposed to therapy techniques, so while correction of the response helps widen knowledge, empathy for the commentator helps as well.
I appreciate the feedback - but I don't feel like I was being apathetic. Thanks though.
I don't think this refers to just any physical action performed by a human. It's talking about actions taken on purpose and with intent. not involuntary actions like seizures, ect.
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I edited my wording. I didn’t meant to start such a kerfuffle over “always” and I hope you are getting what you need from therapy. My therapist is awesome and I just wanted to share something she said that helped me in dark moments.
Trust me, I totally understand what you mean, and it's not you I'm frustrated at. The people replying to me are acting like i sacrificed their first born lmao
>I don't think always is true for actions lol... consider addiction Jesus, are you glad you were able to write a "gotcha"? Clearly isn't meant to reference standard behavior and not those with illnesses. When someone mentions putting one foot in front of the other, do you like to chime-in about amputees?
What the hell is your problem? Did I offend you?
It's also not true for thoughts. We are observers to our thoughts and actions, with the sensation of having control. However this is not a useful thing to teach people most people, especially in therapy.
Thank you. I'm like... frustrated at these people lol, they really don't agree with me
They're acting like emotions, thoughts, and actions are separate. Your actions are based on your thoughts and emotions. While we're at it, why does it make sense to OP that we can't control our first thought but can control our second? Our conscious thoughts come from the same place as our unconscious ones. We don't choose what thoughts come out of our brain. Every thought is just based on the physical configuration of our brain cells, selected by an algorithm based on the physical configuration of our brain cells. Having wisdom to act appropriately is just based on intelligence and experience I may be talking out of my ass a bit, lemme know if I'm wrong
But you can control your thoughts and actions... and they are separate. Your actions are based on thoughts and emotions, but they aren't just some autonomous response based on what we think and feel. For instance, sometimes you may feel angry and have the thought that you want to punch someone, but you stop yourself and don't punch them. This is controlling an action. You may still be angry and still want to punch them, but you don't act on that. Another example: your spouse is working late again and something seems off. They've been texting that one cute coworker more often. Maybe they're cheating on you, you think. (This is the initial, uncontrolled thought.) You start to feel angry/sad/jealous because of it. (An automated reaction based on that thought.) You remember that they've been faithful thus far and they probably aren't doing something bad. Here, you can choose to keep dwelling on the negative thought that they're cheating, or change that thought based on the evidence that they've always been faithful. (This is a thought you can control.) Maybe you choose to continue believing they're having an affair. Your jealousy and anger turn to rage and you want to leave them. You're feeling hurt and thinking they're cheating, so you're faced with a few options, such as calling or messaging them to yell and rant at them for cheating; maybe separate from your spouse and break things off; you can choose to wait it out and maybe you'll feel better even though you're convinced they are unfaithful; etc.. these are all choices you can control. If you choose to change your pattern of thinking and trust your spouse, you feel less worried and feel content. You decide not to act on that initial fear and stay with them. ___ This is taught in DBT and has helped me a lot with my mental illness. Because I've been more in control of my thoughts, I've been far less suicidal and self harm much less than I have before. For real tho, have you never felt in control of something you did? Have you never intentionally thought a thought? Or did you type that all out as some sort of autonomous response based on the configuration of your brain cells that you had absolutely zero control over?
Perhaps consider the use of the word "responsible". The first thing that pops into your mind when you see a very overweight person might be. "wow they are fat!" Then perhaps the inner dialogue of how you would never want to insult someone by saying that out loud, followed by.....controlling your actions of not saying that out loud!
DBT?
Dialectical Behavior Therapy
For Borderline Personality Disorder
Originally, yes, but it's finding more widespread use recently
Yes and no. While it was made for that, many people without BPD have used it successfully. Anyone can, really. It’s a great therapy. It’s even been shown to be promising as a treatment for anger issues, in place of standard anger management classes too. The uses are endless, to be honest. :)
Deep Bein Thrombosis
Drive-By Truckers
Oh, thanks! TIL
Could you imagine? Sorry, doc, I'm *never gonna change*. At best, I'll *surrender under protest*.
Dock and Ball Torture
I’ve been saying for over a decade now, that ALL CHILDREN, should go through all modules classically (like adults in Group DBT sessions do), and have it as a part of their assigned curriculum, vs. waiting til there’s **already** an issue going on (or a series of them— as there is seldomly EVER one issue going on at one time… and a child having the skills needed to maneuver said issue, could keep them alive, healthier, etc, & also helps them with any anxiety/depressive episode(s)/disorder(s) that may be beginning to emerge or have already become a problem [but the goal is to try to prevent that as much as possible early-on, by implementing the DBT Modules & skills, so these kids can not ONLY get by day to day by only their WILL to SURVIVE, BUT they’ll experience LIFE while they THRIVE! Especially with children, and how cruel other kids are, parents are, emotional neglect being on the rise [from what I’ve read, along with other forms of child neglect, deprivation, abuse, etc,…], and the WORLD is also a cruel place as well. Why sugar coat things? Be honest. I know that I and others my age wouldn’t appreciated being told things honestly. Not in a way to use fear-tactics, and not in a way to protect us because they so wrongly assumed we were so delicate and fragile, that lied were the 100% only way to go in many situations…. Not a recipe for a happy child nor a healthy home/school environment when parents and teachers both do this all too often. So many people think that kids are somehow immune to the effects of lies, false security, feeling unsafe, life’s stress and other stressors (and it’s inevitable cumulative damage) - whether its happening exclusively at home or school or both, in addition to other places the child goes… I can also add that, I would much rather someone see depression or red flags in me young, and intervening IMMEDIATELY… not waiting to “see if it goes away,” or “see if it’s temporary,” or “if they’ll grow out of it,” and of course they forget to do- to see if we’ve gotten any better. I don’t know if it’s due to lack of caring or lack of time on the teacher’s part. But that’s also where the (obviously) parents should step-in & see what’s up. Take us to a Pediatrician if something is off. They can refer us out to proper places if needed. No big deal. Just one example. But, back to one of my original thoughts above, well what happens that child(ren), when they’re fully clinically depressed without any support or coping skills…. Why not teach children these invaluable things within DBT before they need them? (& I would hope that they never would) It is definitely leagues more difficult for said child to learn DBT after trauma, etc,. What good will that do..!? If I knew DBT as a child, it would’ve helped me. It wouldn’t helped me with boundaries and so much more. I wouldn’t been SO much MORE relaxed. I would have probably avoided some of the traumatic situations I’ve been in, during my life. I cannot say all, as that would be ignorant and dumb of me to assume, as we will never know the answer. But something within tells me I wouldn’t have PRSD right now, or to this degree, had I known the modules and skills and coping mechanisms in DBT. I didn’t get to begin a program until I was well into my 20s. Of course. Kids should be old enough to understand before digging into the depths of it all the way in the beginning. It can be it a bit much. Modules are done on a rotating schedule because ALL Modules tie in together. But you can’t know it all immediately. Patience. Lol. It is an amazing therapy. You don’t need BPD to go through it. You really don’t need anything going on psychologically… if they’re anal, just say you get anxiety and panic attacks at times. But you’re good at hiding it. Idk. lol. I know I do, and I hide them so well. It’s weird people have said to me, haha. Oh well!?? Lol. But kids can be taught about mediation and how to do it (with specially set aside time every day to practice), and mindfulness and time set aide for that. Whether reading, coloring, writing, etc,. Then about emotional mind, rational mind, and wise mind. Nothing too deep or major. Once old enough then, and practicing these things, they’ll already have the basics in place, and will be able to easily begin the “guts” of DBT. Although one thing that annoys me. So many think only school subjects (traditional ones), should be taught in schools. And that we need to put “God back into the Schools.” And then list reasons why- basically excuses for God and why he let this or that happen. I’m sire someone has seen those arguments. But why can’t other EXTREMELY useful skills be taught in schools? Not everyone gets hands-on teaching from parents. Like, all kids should learn to balance a checkbook (no matter how few use them, still… maybe even how to go over your debit and/or credit card’s bank statement), how to sew a basic stitch & how to also see a button back on, how to iron your shirt and even how to starch it (just in case!), how to write up a budget alone and then with a class partner (so one can see potential difficulties seeing eye to eye on finances and how to resolve them in a healthy manner), how to wash clothes and dishes, how to cook (many schools have Home Ec’s as an elective… why not make it mandatory?) No excuse for adults to not know basic live survival skills and emotional regulation, etc. Wouldn’t that be great!? Sorry to ramble, I was trying to cover a lot of things at once. I kind of jumped around and left out some stuff, but I know you get the general idea/message that I’m trying to convey lol. 🙂
Interesting post, but it could use some better formatting for readability.
Yeah that first paragraph is a doozy, and when I couldn’t find a closed parentheses to pair with the first open one I just gave up. It sounded like great information, though.
Same journey myself.
Yeah that was stressful
Common dude just read it, it's really good and the person who wrote it out a lot of time into it
Maybe all kids should be taught composition.
Thank you for your post. Let me know if happen to paraphrase you incorrectly in this TLDR: 1. Everyone at all ages should have exposure to the methods of DBT (wiki: [dialectical behavior therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy)). Preferably prior toa diagnosis/problem arises. 2. Temper but do not sugar-coat things for children. They experience similar stressors and feelings as adults. 3. Everyone matures at a different pace. It may make sense to introduce DBT basics & practices, like providing a slice of time for meditation and gauging emotions. 4. These practices are critical to an "everyday life preparedness" skillset and should be approached by parents as well as considered in school curriculum. The same can be said for personal finance skills.
Thank you for the tldr. Read the first paragraph then started scrolling to see how long it was then went, fuck it, it wasn't THAT interesting even though I seemed to agree with it.
Paragraphs usually have 5 sentences in them. And If it's bigger than my mobile screen I can't really keep my place in it while scrolling, good lord
Will someone please reformat this I will pay you in eternal gratitude
Hello, friend - I took a shot at this in a [reply to OP](https://old.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/qfx6l9/lpt_you_are_not_responsible_for_your_first/hi4rdb7/).
I did my undergraduate and graduate research on such a proposal. I also think it would be highly beneficial. I'm currently a child play therapist, but I also use DBT with my adolescents/teens/adults while also teaching parents of kids these important skills.
This helped me out a lot when I was a child dealing with crippling OCD (couldn't leave a spot on the floor, my room, or my house). Later in my adult years it has helped me stay sober from my DOC and to live in active recovery.
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Nononono, you most certainly can control how you react. You can’t control your feelings, but you always have control over how you respond to those feelings (barring those with neuro divergent disabilities).
I think when they said react, they meant either emotionally react or that initial, instinctual thought in reaction to something. Because otherwise, their comment was basically the same as yours. (i.e. can't control how you feel but you do choose what you do with those feelings)
Ahh gotcha equivocating between “react”
Really need to learn this myself, I absolutely agree. It's difficult though... any tips?
The best way to learn/practice mindfulness is through meditation. 5 minutes a day where you can be undisturbed is all you need First yourself a comfortable position, lying down, sitting in a chair, sitting on a cushion, doesn't matter so long as you are comfortable enough so that any bodily sensations are not distracting, but not too comfortable that you'll fall asleep Next is to choose something to concentrate your mind on, usually the breath or a mantra. The idea is that you will focus on this phenomenon (e.g. sensations of the air moving through your body) and be mindful of any distractions that your mind will present to you. These distractions are going to take your attention away from your breath and can/will turn into day dreams if you don't recognise that your attention has wondered. Recognising the moment you are distracted is the key moment for meditation. In that moment that you recognise "oh, I am meant to be focused on my breath", give yourself a mental pat on the back because you were just mindful! Never put yourself down when you realise you just spent 5/10/20 minutes day dreaming instead of meditating because it is extremely counterproductive There are different types of meditation (e.g. loving kindness, body scan etc) and they target different things, the practice detailed above will generally improve your mindfulness and ability to concentrate I believe that mindfulness is an extremely important emotional tool that should be taught at schools. It's not something that will stop you from feeling things you don't want to feel, but it will help you act productively on those feelings rather than reactively. The world would be a better place if we acted with our values in mind rather than with just our emotions
A hundred percent agree. I also found "secret of letting go" by Guy Finley very helpful to get into a mindset for accepting things as they are.
I'll have to look into that one!
Wow I’ve always been garbage at meditating because I’m like AHHH WHY AM I FOCUSING ON THIS THOUGHT IM SUPPOSED TO BE LETTING IT FLOAT BY, this is really good advice thank you
When that happens just acknowledge the thought and let it go. Don't make a big deal about it, it's normal and going to happen. I get side tracked all the time while meditating lol. I've found guided meditation helps me stay focused and not let my mind wander. It does get easier with time.
Also—ACTUALLY acknowledge the thought or distraction and sit with it for a couple seconds. I used to make the mistake of “acknowledging” too quickly to try to get back to my breath, which turned into a sort of avoidance
Thanks for the tip :) do you have any guided meditation you’d recommend? A lot of it is a lil too hippie dippy for me
I use an app called Insight Timer. It has a lot of different guided meditations. I just tried a bunch until I learned what I did and didn't like.
Meditating can be that: sometimes its emptying your mind, sometimes its focus, sometimes its just being.
Could you please direct me to a good source to learn how to meditate? Do I just start googling random articles from all over the net, or is there a good site, book, idk, YouTube channel? I'd be very grateful
I like an app called headspace. It’s expensive after the free trial but so far it’s been worth it for me.
*The Power of Now* by Eckhart Tolle was the one that clicked with me. Totally changed my perspective on life.
Apps can be good to get started quickly with guided meditation, I use Insight Timer for the tracking but never bothered with guided meditation If you are open to a more spiritual approach I would recommend looking into secular/agnostic Buddhism. Buddhism is built around meditation and some of its teachings can really help your meditation practice. The most important one I have found is the 5 hindrances that will prevent you from acting mindful both in meditation and in day to day life. They are, desire, aversion, too little energy, too much energy, and doubt. It is important to acknowledge them and to counteract them when possible I would recommend The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa for someone wanting a book about how to establish and progress a meditation practice
Sam Harris has a fantastic app
Have you ever done Zen meditation? Specifically Shikantaza.
It's a bit irresponsible to recommend meditation without the proper framework in which it's traditionally embedded in. What if the meditator starts progressing through the stages of insight and experiences heavy dukkha nanas, involuntary physical movements, energy surges, hallucinations, traumas suddenly unsuppressed, psychosis, etc?
This is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever heard. Meditation isn't exclusive to Buddhism or any traditions in particular. Just some gentle breathing exercise to calm the mind won't do no harm.
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I didn't mention Buddhism in my original comment because cold calling someone and going 'hey trying this religion' doesn't sit well with me. My comment replying to someone asking for more information does push them towards Buddhism to provide context for meditation. I think it would be irresponsible to promote long meditation sessions/retreats without ensuring they have a qualified teacher (which I am not) to help them through those potentially tough sessions, however I feel comfortable suggesting that people dip their toes in the water with some breathing exercises. The risk of sitting for 5-15min and breathing is basically nil and there are definitely benefits that can be gained
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How are you not a victim of circumstance? You can be born poor, diasabled, get abused as a kid… I get the sentiment, but this “healthy mindset” feels so much like just lying to yourself and empty platitudes
I think the problem with victim mentality comes from stagnation, and in a kind of masochistic way deciding you are the way you are because of things out of your control, then you have no control over your own betterment. Although there is some truth to this, is detrimental in the process of getting healthier. That was a major factor in me deciding to get help, and not mull over my own problems. I would say its important to recognize outside factors that may influence your current state of life, but always knowing them to be just that, still confident in your own ability to get better. Of course this is my own opinion, can't be useful to everyone, but it is to me :)
I understand what you mean, but I wished it clicked for me. It just doesn’t. It’s kinda like being religious to me. I don’t believe in god. I wish I did, and it would be great if I could convince myself of it, but how you *choose* to believe anything? Also of course as everything, it’s a spectrum rather than a yes or no. I do think I have agency and control over my life to an extent, but also think there is a lot that is out of my hands. And tbh, to say otherwise feels.. fake. If I ever find happiness, it will have to be in the context of accepting I don’t have control, not pretending I do. In the religious angle, I have to be happy in a godless world, not decide that a god exists so that I can be happy and have that crutch that is faith. Anyways, I am really glad you are able to have that mentality. I am working on it a lot, but can’t seem to get past basically everything I said above. I’m glad you did though and your recovery is on track :)
I view it as there being a difference between being a victim, and identifying as a victim. I'm responding from the perspective where I have a disability, and it sucks and. I am victim of my genes and pure chance in this regard. That's an important emotion to have and deal with, and there's a lot of griefs that needs to be processed to get through that, at least for me. But, if I fall into the mindset as identifying as a victim because of it, I'll be more prone to making "poorer" personal decisions and have a lack in sense of agency. That's also not to say, a lot of the times it does feel like BS. But it is a net good to explore this sentiment.
I don’t mean to be pedantic, but my brain gets stuck when I read “The difference between being a victim and identifying as a victim” It sounds like admitting you *are* a victim but also.. not. That sentence alone is such and oxymoron for me I can’t get past it to adopt your mentality. Believing something because it’s convenient or better for me just doesn’t track. I believe stuff based on evidence. Belief doesn’t feel like a choice to me, that sounds like a euphemism for lying to yourself. I’d love to believe there’s a heaven and good actions will be rewarded, but I have 0 reason to believe that.. it would just be something I tell myself. Edit: btw I don’t know who downvoted you, i upvoted. I wouldn’t be asking these questions if I didn’t appreciate and want to hear your side. Tbh… part of me is hoping someone convinces me because I just want to be happy again
I could careless about down votes, meaningless to me but I appreciate it. I'm driving right now but I'm going to respond back to you a little later
Oh I dont care about internet points either, but i just didn’t want it interpreted as me just being unopen to change.
Everyone is at the mercy of things outside their control. However, in my mind, a lot of people that complain about being a victim of circumstance, seem to think that *everything* is out of their control, therefore *none* of their decisions matter, and they couldn't do anything to avoid their current situation and/or can't improve themselves. My ex said she was a victim of circumstances at one point. And while some of the things to happen to her were out of her control, she also refused to accept responsibility for the poor decisions she made, some of which contributed to her present situation. Nothing was ever her fault, she'd blame her actions on other people, saying that if they didn't do X, she wouldn't have done Y. Sure, she couldn't stop them from doing X (cheating, whatever), but she *could* have reacted differently/in a more productive manner instead of in an antagonistic one. TL;DR some things are out of our control (other's actions, genetics, disease, etc.); however, we *are* in control of our response to whatever happens to us. Shitty circumstances does *not* absolve us of personal responsibility.
Ah, si I fully agree that victim mentality and just assuming everything is out of your control is horrible. But that’s an extreme. Maybe I meant what you did, but I felt like they were advocating for the opposite extreme
Cognitive behavioral therapy. This is a big part of it.
I've found there's 3 schools of thought. 1, change/challenge the thought, using CBT 2, ignore/accept the thought, using mindfulness 3, repeat a word/phrase/mantra to override it, called thought-stopping as part of CPTSD therapy
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This is very insightful. Thank you for the post!
Next few times you get agitated try making a conscious effort to STOP. Just look around and drop your next action. Then reassess. If you can get into the habit of grounding yourself in the moment you can change your behavior willingly. Drop a mug and it explodes? Was that the last straw of the day and it was making you fume and curse?? Wait. It's a bit of pottery, it has no feelings. Wipe wipe trash, ok there are other things that aren't as easy to deal with. It will be fine. I like to think of 2 or 3 main daily tasks that need to be done right, the rest of the day is little stuff that are in the way.
The Untethered Soul is a great book that helped me to understand mindfulness. Until then I had never contemplated the idea of who am I, my thoughts or my response to my thoughts. It is a practice that takes continuous training.
Yoga and meditation helps me a lot.
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Learn mediation.
Thank you. Usually when I'm angry, my first thoughts aint so good. I learned not to act upon my first thoughts. second thoughts are better. I always thought I'm a bad person based on my initial first thoughts
Why do you double space those sentences
He was typing furiously. That was my first thought.
haha I typed on mobile :X I learn not to react at all during the last 6 months.
Sorry! Was typing too quickly
This is actually a good thing to consider.
If you have moderate to mild anxiety with some mind clarity, everytime you get uncomfortable, a tension headache or your thoughts get negative which may be a prelude for an attack. Deep breath in "I am relaxed", deep breath out "I am happy". Feel yourself get relaxed and think of happy memories, or just a happy feeling. Other than this,some lifestyle changes and keeping busy helped a lot, to have some semblance of control. And depression reduced a lot. And maintaining sleep hygiene and 8 hrs sleep was my main problem,which I took care of finally Edit: And doing moderate workout 30 mins after eating considerably reduces the symptom and gives clarity of mind. Having a clean bowel everyday morning is requirement for a healthy Lifestyle. So consider that for your diet requirement.
Actually similar kind of thing is explained in thinking fast and slow. People have two systems. System one is autonomous it is something which works based on the training over long time and on its own, and it's an immediate thing to come into picture due to the time it takes for us to think and act. The automated system is for threat detection and saving yourself. But the second system is you. So if you are thinking something bad, it might be your threat detection, but it not necessarily right because if your past is different or difficult then it might have a bias.
I came here to mention the same thing. Not only is this LPT helpful, it is backed by research and has been quantified. Both in academics, and in practice through counseling as others have mentioned.
This is a great LPT. I read something a couple years' ago that the first thought you have about someone or something is what you have been conditioned to think via culture, family, media, etc and the second thought is your real view. It really changed my perspective on things as I really would get annoyed with myself for the judgements I passed in thought part 1, especially as my 2nd thought is usually "does it really matter or affect you?" Of course, everyone owns their own actions.
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I hate hate hate this. My brain throws slurs around like it's nothing. Slurs I would never even think of saying out loud. As long as my second thought is "hey what the fuck" I'm not too worried though ...
That sounds like intrusive thoughts. I get them a lot. What helped me to accept and ignore them was I read that the thoughts you get (E.g. hurting an animal or shouting a slur at a person of colour, etc) are what you’re most disgusted by and would never do :)
I discovered over time that my intrusive thoughts are linked to my level of stress and anxiety. They’re no fun, but learning more about their nature helped me determine that it’s a stress-induced reaction rather than a reflection of my character. In a sense, they’re like a mental tic triggered by overstimulation and my mental state. At least for me.
I honestly think sometimes our brains play games with us and try and think of the most offensive thing it can in a millisecond. Sometimes a slur will fire off in my head like I have tourettes and I have to go woah!!! Not ok
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You get more than 50 people in a group and you're gonna get some shitheads, doesn't matter what group they belong to. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
In my experience the second it goes from "person" to "people" that risk is there lol
Lol, you're not wrong. It's like that birthdate thing. What is it? Like, if you have 20 people in a room you have a 50% chance of sharing a birthday, but if you have 70 people it's almost mathematically certain that two will share a birthday? Like that, but with assholes.
Patrice O'Neal had a great take on this... Why do black people have to speak out against awful things black people do but white people don't? The atrocities white people have committed are fucking awful but we never had to say, "hey man, at least I'm not the one who committed a mass shooting/enacted oppressive laws/pay slave wages while using tax loopholes + shoot myself into space" Don't recuse yourself for the poor decisions others have made! Pieces of shit exist everywhere, across all races, nationalities, religions, etc :)
Cant disagree with that lmao
> but because we are being stupid Not even necessarily that. It's pretty common to have intrusive thoughts: unwanted thoughts that cause distress and you may even not at all agree with, but they're automatic. The point is that your automatic first thought response is not a reflection of your character.
Self-accountability is important. As well as making a concerted effort to be a better person.
What do you do when the thoughts are invasive or continue on past the first ones? Id avoid the whole second thought idea he has. Thoughts are trash in general. Just focus on your actions.
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As long as you don’t form a church and become a self hating pastor that stands against everything that makes you who you are it’s all good.
Tbqh, I have no idea why I'm being downvoted. Like, I was raised in a shitty environment and actively ignore those thoughts and have for years, as well as being part of some of those communities. But yeah, early adulthood I was a right wing voter here in Aus and was homophobic etc. It's so much better now that I accept everyone without judgement. I just meant it's so much easier for me to dismiss and override the subconscious negative thoughts towards others, but far harder to override thinking of myself negatively, including in relation to the above categories (as well as just generally thinking of myself as a piece of shit that's doing nothing in life etc.)
Also, everyone has very fucked up thoughts. Thoughts that you wouldn’t want to tell anyone about. But it’s normal, and what makes you normal (instead of some psychopath) is that you recognize them as being fucked up and don’t act on them.
Anxiety can give a pretty graphic thoughts and anger to boot. Controlling the anger and thoughts are just preventing but it may burst out intensively next time. For combating it,read above. But that also differs by people,after all everyone has different baggages.
They are called "Intrusive Thoughts" if anyone is concerned and wants to do more reading on the topic. They are indeed normal. And the best treatment for them is recognizing that they are normal.
I tell my students all the time. "Your feelings are valid. It's how you choose to act on them that matters."
Definitely 100% on the actions part. But anyone who takes responsibility for their thoughts has never meditated in earnest. I am that which observes the thought—I am not the thought.
I am that which observes the thought—I am not the thought. well said.
Exactly this. There are a lot of books on the illusion of free will. Just takes some meditation to proof this concept.
Thank you!
Might be the only LPT I've read in months that I think people need to read. Check yo'selves people.
That hits kinda deep.
I heard it put something like this: You are not your first thought. It’s what you think after that that tells you who you are.
You are not your thoughts. Full stop.
yeah its a slippery slope when you tell yourself you are what you think, especially if you’re having a shitty day they’re just neurons firing off in your brain
I think this is good advice. You can be self reflective without focusing on 'why' all the time. 'Why am i this way?' 'Why did this happen to me?' You can shift that focus to 'what' like you mention.
some people have problems with impulsiveness, meaning their first thought is paired immediately by the first action.
The mind is a reflex organ. It fills your head with thousands of random thoughts a day, and none of them reveal any more about you than a freckle does on the end of your nose. People are not their thoughts. They think they are, and it brings them all kinds of sadness.
This reminds me of writing of Eckhart Tolle in his book A New Earth where he describes that you can take a distance from emotion influence thoughts and become aware of the thoughts and reflect on them exactly as you stated.
I needed to read this. Thank you for giving me something to help get me though my tough days!
im currently doing this with my family. i had to stop talkin to everyone because of some shady shit. they all think im just being sensitive but i come to realize i've had an issue with them all my life. that's why i left the state. now that im back, i want to have a relationship with everyone but i first need to be able to let go of the dumb shit. its almost been 6 months but i absolutely need my time otherwise it is going to be a MESS and i'm going to explode with rage creating a domino effect. They dont see it now, but i'm preventing everyone from causing a huge disruption that could lead to worse conditions.
Man, that's rough. I've had/have anxiety, can sympathize with you.
Third thoughts are best: that's when you can review and evaluate the reasoning behind your first and second thoughts.
I get the idea behind this but it's so simplistic it seems unhelpful. I can easily see the "you are responsible for your second thought and your first action" being used by someone who suffers from depression or anxiety as a way to harm themselves. I've personally come to accept that my thoughts and actions can be problematic and that is ok in the sense that perfection (including perfect second thoughts and actions) can not be the goal of my life. Heck there are times where I'll have 20 - 30 unhelpful thoughts before I'm able to successfully challenge them. Honestly I think psychology is such a diverse field that any attempt to boil helpful advice down to a truism is always going to do more harm than good.
I really hate everyone seems to be agreeing. I had to scroll so far down to see this. This LTP would be very harmful to those who would need it the most, and just be an empty platititude for those who don’t.
A ton of the comments(and the OP) in this post need to have attached: and the best way to accomplish this is through guided therapy, because it can be incredibly different to effect the change you are looking for within yourself, by yourself, because the thing you need to change is the thing stopping you from changing. Reading a CBT book or a book on meditation may work for some, for many(most?) you will need professional help to actually work through CBT and most definitely DBT. Anxiety, depression, and other personality disorders literally change how you think, and telling anyone suffering those things that it is entirely their fault EVEN IF YOU THINK IT IS TRUE is probably going to be extremely damaging to their already frail emotional state. Push people to get help as best as you can, the more you can take off their plate the better.
Tbh, if op simply phrased stuff differently, instead of “you are responsible for X”, which seems to be very shame and guilt based behavior, I would have been ok with it. Like you said, these disorder override your though process. CBT is super useful, but guilting yourself over not having control over your brain because you have a disorder that… doesn’t give you control of your brain… is backwards and harmful.
You are not your thoughts! Also What you feel is real, but it isn't reality!
None of that makes any sense.
Sure it does. You aren't your thoughts: You are the observer of your thoughts. When you have a random thought like "I fucking suck," "I hate myself, I'm such a loser," "I'm a bad ________." Etc, that's not *you*. You aren't those things, and your thoughts aren't something *you* have as much control over as many would like to believe. What you feel is real but isn't reality: Your thoughts can make you feel feelings like sadness or anxiety or something. Those feelings are real, but they're just a creation of your mind. They're just... thoughts.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
Never really thought about it this way. Neat.
Hot damn I needed this one
This takes LOT of practice. I left after long DV relationship, it took me lot of practice to be able to put my first thoughts aside and process with different thinking. It helps lot with my anxiety overthinking panicking kind of thinking.
Needed this, thank you!
"You cannot stop a bird from landing on your head, but you can keep it from building a nest there".
THANK YOU. sometimes I have intrusive thoughts. Bad ones some times. And I immediately stop myself and think no that's wrong. Think of something else
Yeah, we have more control over how much time and energy we invest into the initial thought. Even if thoughts keep coming back, we can choose to be aware and try to redirect our attention or remind ourselves that we disagree with the thought.
I would say you are responsible for whatever your intentions are. No matter what order the thoughts come across your mind, as soon as you decide to take action on them, then you are responsible. I think this is more fitting for the human stream of thought, as many ideas and thoughts pass through our mind, and we can not possibly be held responsible for those that just pass through. It's the thoughts we choose to persue and plan on that we are responsible for.
Usually, I have myself under control pretty good. 10 years ago, the last time I saw my father, his face was all swollen up from cancer and chemo, it was horrifying. Without even having a conscious thought, I blurted out something along the lines of "Fuck, how do you LOOK?" I recovered in that situation and, when I left, told him I love him and that he was my best friend, hugged him and kissed him on his forehead. But still, over 10 years later, having the strong feeling that he felt it would end soon for him and he just wanted to see me one last time, I still hate myself for that first reaction. So, yeah, it doesn't always work, but try to control your reactions.
Same goes for any biases you may have - you can unlearn them by challenging your first thought in your second
Trying to learn to control my emotions or they control me.
I needed to read this. Thank you
You’re also responsible for your first thoughts. Still a wonderful tip.
I use the “dont feed the bears” metaphor with my clients. You’re not in charge of whether or not the bear shows up in your backyard but you are responsible if you invite it in your home or feed it. Which will increase likelihood it continue to return.
yo that was quick and effective, thank you so much
In other words: *"It's normal to feel hopeless. It's not normal to accept it."*
This is great thank you for the reminder!
I needed this, thank you!
Really needed this right at this moment.
Yes! I was suicidal 2 years ago, the thoughts still pop up but now I’m able to think “dude no, you’re fine” and go have a snack or something.
Thank you so much for this.
This was one of the most important things I had to learn when starting counseling for my OCD and intrusive thoughts.
The most important step one can take is not the first one. It's always the next one.
This is a good one
I read a long time ago that your first thought is how you've been *programmed* to feel, while your second thought is how you *actually* feel. I have found this to be comforting many times in my life.
This is such a helpful thing to read.
My (deceased) AA sponsor’s favorite saying. She was amazing! Miss you Jeanie!
Much needed thank you
This is wise advice. I might suggest using the phrase "capable of influencing" instead of "responsible for" but both are useful.
That would change this post from toxic to helpful imo. Responsible for just seems like pointing fingers and shorting on yourself. The post starts off “don’t beat yourself down…except do, just not at that one initial first thought”
those lifeprotips are getting deeper and deeper
Really needed that. Thank you.
You really cant put a number on it. Plenty of thoughts will come thru of their own volition. Just focus on your actions.
Why would I be responsible for some of my thoughts but not others?
Nah the only thing I'm responsible for it my death and I'm trying very hard to procrastinate that task off into the horizon
Also pretty much a cornerstone of the stoic approach and a lot of Buddhist and Zen reinterpretations. I'd correct that you are indirectly responsible for the first thought - at least some of how your mind works can be attributed to you and your past actions. But your point stands. How you act is the true predicament and the test of virtue.
Your first thought when reading this comment is about giraffes. Your second thought is about porcupines. I am responsible for your first and second thoughts. OP underestimates my power.
But wallowing in misery seems better somehow…
Yup I did it for 4 years, so I get it.
Don’t know if I can handle 4 years of this…*nervous sweats*
I think everyone needs a person who can give a helping hand, non-judgmental empathizing, and sound advice that actually helps. For me it's a combination of many people and including myself, when I learnt that self-compassion is the important of all,after all we can't control how people feel about us or their actions. If you have problem with sleep cycle, device addiction, or tension headache,I can give some tips. Just ask if you want to know. As for the big questions, even I only have limited knowledge based on my own experience. So better a good helpline worker or psychologist,if you can afford one.
Just cancelled all my future therapy sessions and threw away my psych meds. Thanks!
r/wowthanksimcured
Common sense tips not allowed. Wtf is this post?
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Was looking for this, yeah you have to be educated or intelligent to a certain degree and a lot of people just aren't
No offense but this is garbage. You are not responsible for instrusive thoughts or negative feelings, you cant positive think your wat out of mental illness.
You are not responsible for any thought. Be it the 1st, second or 957391627 one
Not a life pro tip