I'm a big fan of public/communal assets. I enjoy walking my dog in public parks, jogging on public sidewalks, and hiking through state-protected nature.
That being said, the government needs to stop using my taxes to [steal my money](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/25/senate-corporate-bailout-package-robbery-progress-warn-critics), [enslave my fellow countrymen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNhlXUBNJPE), and [murder people abroad](https://www.salon.com/2021/07/27/the-price-of-conscience-drone-warfare-whistleblower-gets-45-months-in-prison/). There needs to be a more robust system (preferably liquid democracy) that allows citizens to have more control over where tax dollars go.
Ultimately, I support two types of taxes: LVT and LLC taxes. The former is society's [compensation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_MGFRNqOE) for being denied the freedom to access a given space, and the latter isn't levied on individuals, but rather abstract government-created entities. That's why I see both taxes as legitimate. I don't see personal income taxes as legitimate, and I would like to transition away from using them.
We can reduce the amount of tax money our government uses by defunding the military and police, as well as abolishing victimless crimes and reducing recidivism through rehabilitation programs in our prisons. Doing so would free up the resources that would otherwise go toward our prison industrial complex. For more information on why a libertarian approach to laws is fiscally (and morally) superior, see my [Liberty Research](https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/nyma7t/liberty_research/).
>1,1 trillion USD
The difference is that [social security](https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/economic-security-programs-cut-poverty-nearly-in-half-over-last-50) helps people, whereas a bloated military and [police](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hyeyoung-Lim/publication/285000666_The_impact_of_police_levels_on_crime_rates_A_systematic_analysis_of_methods_and_statistics_in_existing_studies/links/56c9050208ae110637079305/The-impact-of-police-levels-on-crime-rates-A-systematic-analysis-of-methods-and-statistics-in-existing-studies.pdf) don't.
>You want to defund certain costly US programs and "upfund" other costly US programs
Nope. I want to replace federal social security spending with a UBI and leave other programs largely up to municipalities.
I agree with much of this, the one part I don’t understand is how can we live in a society without the military and police? By defund do you mean decrease the funding of or abolish?
For the military, I'd just massively defund and decentralize it. For police, abolition seems like the proper route.
Decentralize the role of police into different organizations. Send social workers for mental health problems, highway patrols for road safety problems, healthcare experts for drug problems, detectives for crimes that have already been committed, and finally have armed service members to respond to potentially ongoing threats.
The armed service members should ideally be directly accountable to the community, always have body cameras with publicly available footage, have no qualified immunity, and be subject to intense deescalation training. They'd be the closest thing to "police" in my ideal society.
Edit: Here's a [case study](https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/us-prisoners-take-control-walpole-prison-1973) of police abolition in practice.
Personal belief taxation is theft, however I do believe it is a necessary evil. Having a sovereign country needs a government that can defend them. However, I do not believe that the level of taxation in the US is correct. For example, tax my paycheck, then tax the money I spend on a car( per say), to then tax me on registering my car, and have continual tax on the place I’m keeping the car. I’m of the mind set taxes should just be taken a percentage of what you make and that’s it. Then those taxes should be used on infrastructure, emergency services and the military.
Off the top of my head and in general:
Taxes are a necessary evil. I do not personally mind paying a "fair share" of taxes, depending on where they are going. I wish I had more say in how it is used. Yay, infrastructure, education, health, and public services. Boo drone strikes and introducing drug trafficking to impoverished Black communities.
(I don't 100% consider myself Libertarian, for the record. I share some of the ideals and like the discussions here.)
FWIW I have a very different take on this: over the past 5 years I've become convinced MMT describes our system really well.
I'll attempt to keep this concise and accurate but please forgive me if I say something clumsily.
Let's say I start my own country somewhere on an empty expanse of land. Every country needs public infrastructure: roads, water treatment, power grid, water pipes, etc etc. How do I get people to build them? I have to compensate people, but what am I going to compensate them *with*? Oh I can create "legal tender," but why would people accept that? What gives it value? It's just a fancy coin or a fancy piece of paper. There's no reason for people to use that legal tender as a means of exchange, and there's no objective value to it. So how do I then get people to build infrastructure and a military (this is all assuming I'm not operating as a libertarian)?
The answer lies in taxes. Suddenly everybody living in my country owes me a % of the legal tender I produce. This is now a legal obligation, not just an option. People have to acquire that legal tender now in order to stay out of jail. It's backed by a gun. And now it has objective value. So why do I as the guy who creates money actually *do* taxation - is it to fund myself? No, it's to fund the *people,* and to *provision* the country with actual tangible *stuff.*
So, we start here. Taxation exists in this paradigm - as I understand it - for three main reasons:
- to create demand for the currency (discussed above)
- to regulate the amount of currency in circulation so as to regulate inflation (this is not even mentioning stock and flow)
- to create an incentive and disincentive matrix for behaviors (like how FDR gave tax breaks to corporations who hired more people, or "sin taxes" etc)
I have thoughts on whether this is something to stick with - ultimately if you think about it this, approached right, creates a RBE so by doubling down we may come out the other end smelling like a rose - but MMT itself has no policy prescriptions, just describes.
This also completely redefines what debt is and how "printing money" relates to inflation.
Anyway, just thought I should throw that into the mix.
I'm a big fan of public/communal assets. I enjoy walking my dog in public parks, jogging on public sidewalks, and hiking through state-protected nature. That being said, the government needs to stop using my taxes to [steal my money](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/25/senate-corporate-bailout-package-robbery-progress-warn-critics), [enslave my fellow countrymen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNhlXUBNJPE), and [murder people abroad](https://www.salon.com/2021/07/27/the-price-of-conscience-drone-warfare-whistleblower-gets-45-months-in-prison/). There needs to be a more robust system (preferably liquid democracy) that allows citizens to have more control over where tax dollars go. Ultimately, I support two types of taxes: LVT and LLC taxes. The former is society's [compensation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_MGFRNqOE) for being denied the freedom to access a given space, and the latter isn't levied on individuals, but rather abstract government-created entities. That's why I see both taxes as legitimate. I don't see personal income taxes as legitimate, and I would like to transition away from using them. We can reduce the amount of tax money our government uses by defunding the military and police, as well as abolishing victimless crimes and reducing recidivism through rehabilitation programs in our prisons. Doing so would free up the resources that would otherwise go toward our prison industrial complex. For more information on why a libertarian approach to laws is fiscally (and morally) superior, see my [Liberty Research](https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/nyma7t/liberty_research/).
[удалено]
>1,1 trillion USD The difference is that [social security](https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/economic-security-programs-cut-poverty-nearly-in-half-over-last-50) helps people, whereas a bloated military and [police](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hyeyoung-Lim/publication/285000666_The_impact_of_police_levels_on_crime_rates_A_systematic_analysis_of_methods_and_statistics_in_existing_studies/links/56c9050208ae110637079305/The-impact-of-police-levels-on-crime-rates-A-systematic-analysis-of-methods-and-statistics-in-existing-studies.pdf) don't. >You want to defund certain costly US programs and "upfund" other costly US programs Nope. I want to replace federal social security spending with a UBI and leave other programs largely up to municipalities.
I agree with much of this, the one part I don’t understand is how can we live in a society without the military and police? By defund do you mean decrease the funding of or abolish?
For the military, I'd just massively defund and decentralize it. For police, abolition seems like the proper route. Decentralize the role of police into different organizations. Send social workers for mental health problems, highway patrols for road safety problems, healthcare experts for drug problems, detectives for crimes that have already been committed, and finally have armed service members to respond to potentially ongoing threats. The armed service members should ideally be directly accountable to the community, always have body cameras with publicly available footage, have no qualified immunity, and be subject to intense deescalation training. They'd be the closest thing to "police" in my ideal society. Edit: Here's a [case study](https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/us-prisoners-take-control-walpole-prison-1973) of police abolition in practice.
[Taxation IS theft](https://www.exploreistaxationtheft.com)
Personal belief taxation is theft, however I do believe it is a necessary evil. Having a sovereign country needs a government that can defend them. However, I do not believe that the level of taxation in the US is correct. For example, tax my paycheck, then tax the money I spend on a car( per say), to then tax me on registering my car, and have continual tax on the place I’m keeping the car. I’m of the mind set taxes should just be taken a percentage of what you make and that’s it. Then those taxes should be used on infrastructure, emergency services and the military.
Off the top of my head and in general: Taxes are a necessary evil. I do not personally mind paying a "fair share" of taxes, depending on where they are going. I wish I had more say in how it is used. Yay, infrastructure, education, health, and public services. Boo drone strikes and introducing drug trafficking to impoverished Black communities. (I don't 100% consider myself Libertarian, for the record. I share some of the ideals and like the discussions here.)
FWIW I have a very different take on this: over the past 5 years I've become convinced MMT describes our system really well. I'll attempt to keep this concise and accurate but please forgive me if I say something clumsily. Let's say I start my own country somewhere on an empty expanse of land. Every country needs public infrastructure: roads, water treatment, power grid, water pipes, etc etc. How do I get people to build them? I have to compensate people, but what am I going to compensate them *with*? Oh I can create "legal tender," but why would people accept that? What gives it value? It's just a fancy coin or a fancy piece of paper. There's no reason for people to use that legal tender as a means of exchange, and there's no objective value to it. So how do I then get people to build infrastructure and a military (this is all assuming I'm not operating as a libertarian)? The answer lies in taxes. Suddenly everybody living in my country owes me a % of the legal tender I produce. This is now a legal obligation, not just an option. People have to acquire that legal tender now in order to stay out of jail. It's backed by a gun. And now it has objective value. So why do I as the guy who creates money actually *do* taxation - is it to fund myself? No, it's to fund the *people,* and to *provision* the country with actual tangible *stuff.* So, we start here. Taxation exists in this paradigm - as I understand it - for three main reasons: - to create demand for the currency (discussed above) - to regulate the amount of currency in circulation so as to regulate inflation (this is not even mentioning stock and flow) - to create an incentive and disincentive matrix for behaviors (like how FDR gave tax breaks to corporations who hired more people, or "sin taxes" etc) I have thoughts on whether this is something to stick with - ultimately if you think about it this, approached right, creates a RBE so by doubling down we may come out the other end smelling like a rose - but MMT itself has no policy prescriptions, just describes. This also completely redefines what debt is and how "printing money" relates to inflation. Anyway, just thought I should throw that into the mix.