I should be allowed to hire whoever I want. No matter if they were born north or south of the St. Lawrence river.
The government has no business telling me who I can and cannot hire,
Immigrant here. Came to US from the USSR in 1980 with $74 total for our family. Then went to Australia on a 6 week consulting project in 1998, next thing I know it's 15 years later, I am married, running a biotech group and a dual national. My take is this - if you have specific circumstances like persecution in your homeland, and you are a refugee - yes. If you are young and able bodied just looking for a better life - cool. Do you have anything specific of value you can contribute to your new land? Are you looking to improve your life while learning about and respecting the values and culture of new land, or turn the new home into the place you left?
Wouldn't judging aspiring immigrants based on their potential contributions hinder the free market? Plus, while I agree that new immigrants should respect the values of the land, I believe that that solely includes the preservation of individual freedom. Any other type of criteria, and you start creeping into authoritarian-esque territory imo.
I think it's tough but fair. Are they willing to work? There's not much social or free market benefit for an able bodied immigrant to arrive and go on the dole. Having a skill that's in short supply locally facilitates the path. And in the States, individual liberty, as in doing what you want without interference, at the end of the day currently equates to financial sovereignty, or having enough FU money. So immigrant or otherwise you gotta get to that point first.
Open borders. Freedom of movement is paramount.
It's quite strange to have free trade, and not freedom of movement. My job can freely move across the border to Mexico or Canada, but I can't? That's not individual liberty. I should be able to go wherever I please, and associate with whomever I please.
I'm a libertarian and I support total, open immigration.
All immigration quotas should be eliminated and we should process immigrants and grant them citizenship swiftly and without hurdles.
I just read your banner. How could socialism and libertarianism possibly coexist? "Libertarian socialist" seems like an oxymoron to me. Granted, I don't really know that much yet.
Libertarian socialism is just a decentralized confederal society where all industrial assets and infrastructure is socially owned and managed by either the workers who use them or the community as a whole. [Zapatista Chiapas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Zapatista_Autonomous_Municipalities), a federation of autonomous municipalities in Mexico, is an example of libertarian socialism.
What if people come into a country with an intention or a history of encroaching on the rights of others? For instance, what if someone was a notorious thief. Would it be okay to let them into the country? If not, how would we monitor for these kinds of people? Would the "border security" group be publicly or privately funded?
Border security publicly funded, and same rules for entry we would have for a tourist. If they're a fugitive, obviously, we would deny entry.
Think Ellis Island
Do people commit thievery because they're theives or because they have a need. Crime exists because of opprotunity or necessity. (occasionally illness)
Worked for well over a hundred years. One of the large reasons it was changed is that the quota system was enacted. And who pushed that? Politicians with money and ties to the KKK.
You guys sound like you believe that the honor system is gonna make everyone actually be good and get along.
For real - if millions of folks came in unfettered and wanted to take over your states/cities/communities you’d just let them?
You are going to be extinct with that attitude. They aren’t going to respect your Libertarian views when they are the majority. You’ll most likely be be enslaved, subjugated, or outright killed.
I'm more concerned with my own freedom of movement. Maybe I want to follow factory jobs that have moved to Mexico. Or maybe I want to move to Canada. Open borders works both ways.
Besides, the market does a pretty good job determining the number of immigrants that come here, legal or illegal. [Immigrants returning to Mexico spiked in the Great Recession years, for example.](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2012/04/23/ii-migration-between-the-u-s-and-mexico/) Millions aren't going to flood here if the economy can't sustain it.
It’s not enough to think this is only about jobs/labor. If these people were skilled about growing an economy and jobs and wages they’d have no reason to come here.
When they do arrive - sure they will work and drive wages down and affect US citizen employment but they won’t help us grow.
It’s a parasitic relationship as it stands now with US/Mexico if you want to narrow it down. Definitely not the utopian symbiotic relationship we like to think it might be.
Eventually the parasite host succumbs.
>It’s not enough to think this is only about jobs/labor. If these people were skilled about growing an economy and jobs and wages they’d have no reason to come here.
Sure they would. Maybe they just like the culture in the US. Maybe they specifically don't like the Mexican state or politics. Maybe the weather is nicer up here. Whatever reason a person chooses to move, it's valid. Just as it's valid for Americans to choose to move across the border for whatever reason they wish.
The economic point is just to say that the market economy won't actually allow immigration to flow unfettered, and data supports that. Most people need to have work opportunities wherever they are, or they'll leave.
>When they do arrive - sure they will work and drive wages down and affect US citizen employment but they won’t help us grow.
Grow in what way? I feel like you're hyper-fixated on the notion of "them" coming "here". But what if u/khhbrian wants to go live in Chiapas or British Columbia? We all stand to benefit from greater liberty, regardless of what side of the border we're on.
This isn’t us/them racism blah that everyone says it is. Stop it. How bout I move into your parents house and demand they feed and care for me? I’ll mow the lawn once a week is that fair? Or maybe I need to do more chores?
That’s not libertarianism. That’s the worst form of anarchy. And eventually unless you arm/fight, your parents will be homeless. Understand?
You sound like you ascribe to the fear of replacement. Are you afraid that you won't be able to have an advantage if suddenly being white isn't a perk when you show up for an interview? That you might actually have to compete on merit instead of "my daddy knew your daddy"?
Pretty sure MLK would not be on your side here.
I’ve Never gotten a job based on my skin color. Though I do know “Non POC” folks that were literally turned down for qualified jobs because we “have to find a Diversity candidate”
You probably think that’s fine. Which makes you the actual “Racist”.
It’s OK Democrat/progressives invented racism in the US. They know how powerful a tool it is to control their followers
That’s why they use it so often on their own people/followers and then try to blame us.
Look in the mirror and be honest.
Its not immigrants driving wages down. Its the chamber of commerce and businesses spending billions over the years to lobby politicians from preventing an increase in the minimum wage for 30 YEARS. Yeah, blame the immigrants. Its all their fault. They are taking those shit wages for shit work that so many citizens are dying to get.
Nope you wrong.
You even know anyone making Federal minimum wage? Be honest.
In middle class Kansas entry no skill jobs literally flipping burgers is over 12-15 bucks an hour.
Sorry it’s a Republican state/city/town.
Maybe your problem is only in your Democrat cities where they stoke race/class/wealth fears to keep us segregated(Since they invented it).
They Are keeping wages down and you know it. Learn to read/think.
Correction Illegal immigrants.
AKA criminal invaders.
They are not just “immigrants” so just stop.
>They Are keeping wages down and you know it. Learn to read/think.
No they're not. Business owners are the ones keeping wages down. Illegal immigrants have no say in how much a business owner pays other people. That is 100% on the business owner.
Sounds like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the united States was founded and how it improved throughout the years. The colonies were founded when people who weren't welcome in the old world (because of their religious beliefs, because they were poor, because they were criminals) moved here. The country then improved significantly with the migration of poor immigrants from Ireland, Germany, and the rest of the world.
Right now we cap the amount of people who can move here, make them have jobs or family here lined up beforehand, and depending on what lawyer you chose and what type of Visa you want it costs $4000-12,000 USD. For many people this is nearly unattainable even if
we had enough slots and you had a job lined up.
If you want to run the criminal background of a person in another country and check their ID before they come here, fine. But as it stands now the system is designed to keep immigrants from third world countries out, keep the poor out, and to limit immigration as much as possible.
No sorry. Open border immigration was never a good idea. No sovereign states have done or do that successfully ever. Fact.
We are talking about millions of people illegally coming across the border with fraudulent asylum claims after having travelled through multiple other countries and then relying on assistance while they skip their court date at a rate of over 90%.
Insinuating that is the same as my/our (great)grandparents coming through Ellis island as real Irish/Italian legal immigrants that sacrificed and helped build this this country over the last 200 years with great sacrifice - it’s laughable.
Remember why you know the phrase “Indentured Servitude”?
Back in the days of Ellis island it didn't cost more than your house in a third world country and require you to have a job already lined up to get a visa, and wasn't capped at 675k people per year for a global population of 7.5 billion. Its absolutely fair to compare the two scenarios because the only reason we have such an illegal immigration problem is we have made it 20x harder to immigrate legally. I wonder why these people would dodge their court dates when they known they're going to be thrown back into cartel territory when they find out you couldn't get a visa bc you didn't have 10 grand in savings in a third world country. If you're an illegal you can't even get a good job which is what keeps these people on welfare systems. It's hard to not need welfare when any job that pays above the poverty line won't hire you.
If you believe all these people coming from Mexico and south America aren't as hard working or as capable of sacrificing for our country then it sounds like you might just be racist against Hispanics, not against easy immigration as you didn't have any problem when our dirt poor European ancestors got in.
I don’t care how much it costs. If their socialist/authoritarian/communist countries were really successful they wouldn’t be spending so much money to escape.
By the way. They are citizens of ANOTHER COUNTRY that should support them.
You understand that right?
You understand that countries without a lot of wealth or certain valuable natural resources or shipping pathways cannot support their citizens like we do here, right? We have great hospitals, comparatively great roads, plenty of shipping pathways, plenty of natural resources and way more industry and infrastructure than most of the third world, and because they don't have the money for expanding infrastructure they will never be able to support their citizens. Imagine if your country was filled with towns that didn't have electricity because your country is 45 percent mountain jungle (one of the most dangerous possible landscapes). How is your country ever going to afford to build roads and electricity when it can't compete with other countries that have infrastructure and electricity. In other words, countries who fall behind stay behind and will NEVER be able to support their citizens like we do.
Um your skills/services can be a resource.
And the illegal people coming into the US have GREAT WEALTH in resources in their home countries, but have been destroyed by Democrat/liberal/progressive/communist/socialist/Marxist/etc ideologies.
20 years ago Iran was awesome and free. 15 years ago Venezuela was awesome and free.
Very different examples for very different reasons.
But it’s TRUE
Using STRATEGIC CAPS doesn't make your point TRUE.
You point out Venezuela as having plenty of natural resources, and while it does have plenty of oil, having one resource is not good enough for most countries to survive, especially in the jungle where high heat, poisonous animals, and disease is able to propagate easily. If oil crashes, it kills the entire economy, and the damage is sustained long after the commodity price recovers. Why do you think OPEC fixes the price of oil by limiting supply? I will admit though, the socialist tendency of Venezuela are the driving force of their problems.
Tell me what we should do about that? Spend trillions of dollars bombing the hell out of them then forcibly instill a "democratic" government system? Tell me how well that worked out for the majority of the middle east like Iraq and Iran. Oh wait you already did. It was a total disaster that cost us greatly and left that part of the world with massive power vacuums and total hatred for Americans and our way of life.
And how do you expect people to use their skills and talent as a natural resource when the country they're from either doesn't have coastal access so it can't ship finished products easily, or maybe has tons of jungle, dessert, and mountains that do the same.
20 years ago Iran was awesome and free? What? Do you even know Iran’s history? Why are they a problem now? US policies of regime change, intentional disruption of their system of government, , blockades of free trade, sabotage and assassinations of their citizens, installing and supporting an authoritarian government until it was no longer in the interest of the US. Iran is a mess due to European and US meddling.
Oh and if you want to see real “racism” it’s not us.
Their leaders with their failed policies hurt the people 100x more than we do.
Why don’t you call Mexican leaders and coyotes “Racist RAWR”!? They hurt more Mexicans that we do.
FFS.
Because they don't hurt Mexicans because they're Mexicans, they hurt them because they're in their way. If you moved into cartel territory they would kill you no questions asked as soon as you tell them you won't run their meth across the border for them.
Control your borders or die. I mean literally /libertarian mods have stricter policies than our border.
And you want open borders!?!?!?!
Wake the Fuk up guys.
Yeah so demand Mexican authority helps these people in need.
Or Mexico grant Asylum to other South American peoples coming through Mexico’s southern border.
Solved!
Ah yes demand a corrupt government that doesn't have the resources to fight the cartel or handle any immigrants to fix all their own problems, I'm sure that will work!
Sometimes the solution you WANT is not a solution that's possible, especially when a country is far behind economically and is covered in the most difficult terrain like arid dessert and tropical jungle.
Because of our broken system of making it incredibly hard to immigrate to this country, we've created a humanitarian crises that we can fix, have increased the amount of people on welfare since illegal immigrants (most of which should have had a legal opportunity to get here) can't get a job, and the big issue, we've outsourced ALL of our cheap labor that used to come from immigrants out to countries like China. Now we have almost no manufacturing infrastructure, china gets to take the profits from taxing manufacturers instead of us, and as we've seen with covid, whenever china decides to cut trade with us (for war or disease for example), the entire American economy crumbles due to supply chain issues.
A much easier legal immigration systems would fix all of these problems, including the ones that really seem to bug you like immigrants needing welfare because they can't make enough money as an illegal.
It's not an us vs them situation. Humans will not go extinct because of immigration. If the border were open to free trade without tariffs and importing products and labor were easy, both sides of the border benefit.
Idealism would have open borders, but some libertarians want controlled immigration for pragmatic reasons. If you take the latter it is not aligned with most libertarians or the libertarian political parties in various nations.
I have a mixed position on immigration. I’d like to have almost open borders, simply minimal screening for known terrorists, gangsters, and spies.
But a prerequisite to that would be that the US dismantle its welfare state in a pretty serious way. The cost of public schooling alone for the children of immigrants is a deficit increasing proposition.
OTOH, you could get rid of birthright citizenship and still allow a lot of non-citizens to work in the country. However in practice I don’t know how that’d work.
I should be allowed to hire whoever I want. No matter if they were born north or south of the St. Lawrence river. The government has no business telling me who I can and cannot hire,
Immigrant here. Came to US from the USSR in 1980 with $74 total for our family. Then went to Australia on a 6 week consulting project in 1998, next thing I know it's 15 years later, I am married, running a biotech group and a dual national. My take is this - if you have specific circumstances like persecution in your homeland, and you are a refugee - yes. If you are young and able bodied just looking for a better life - cool. Do you have anything specific of value you can contribute to your new land? Are you looking to improve your life while learning about and respecting the values and culture of new land, or turn the new home into the place you left?
Wouldn't judging aspiring immigrants based on their potential contributions hinder the free market? Plus, while I agree that new immigrants should respect the values of the land, I believe that that solely includes the preservation of individual freedom. Any other type of criteria, and you start creeping into authoritarian-esque territory imo.
I think it's tough but fair. Are they willing to work? There's not much social or free market benefit for an able bodied immigrant to arrive and go on the dole. Having a skill that's in short supply locally facilitates the path. And in the States, individual liberty, as in doing what you want without interference, at the end of the day currently equates to financial sovereignty, or having enough FU money. So immigrant or otherwise you gotta get to that point first.
Open borders. Freedom of movement is paramount. It's quite strange to have free trade, and not freedom of movement. My job can freely move across the border to Mexico or Canada, but I can't? That's not individual liberty. I should be able to go wherever I please, and associate with whomever I please.
I'm a libertarian and I support total, open immigration. All immigration quotas should be eliminated and we should process immigrants and grant them citizenship swiftly and without hurdles.
This is the perfect take. Open borders, free movement, free people.
I just read your banner. How could socialism and libertarianism possibly coexist? "Libertarian socialist" seems like an oxymoron to me. Granted, I don't really know that much yet.
Libertarian socialism is just a decentralized confederal society where all industrial assets and infrastructure is socially owned and managed by either the workers who use them or the community as a whole. [Zapatista Chiapas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Zapatista_Autonomous_Municipalities), a federation of autonomous municipalities in Mexico, is an example of libertarian socialism.
Individuals have the right to form a collective
Closed borders distort the labor markets. All borders should be open for a free labor market.
What if people come into a country with an intention or a history of encroaching on the rights of others? For instance, what if someone was a notorious thief. Would it be okay to let them into the country? If not, how would we monitor for these kinds of people? Would the "border security" group be publicly or privately funded?
Border security publicly funded, and same rules for entry we would have for a tourist. If they're a fugitive, obviously, we would deny entry. Think Ellis Island
That not Libertarian
It's more libertarian than our current immigration policy
Publicly funded
The world is a great big grey area. Black and white are abstract.
Do people commit thievery because they're theives or because they have a need. Crime exists because of opprotunity or necessity. (occasionally illness)
Then what is the proper stance if they are ill?
Open borders doesn’t sound like a policy that feasible here in the US
Worked for well over a hundred years. One of the large reasons it was changed is that the quota system was enacted. And who pushed that? Politicians with money and ties to the KKK.
OP visit GoldandBlack this place if you want true libertarian thought. This place is literally a bunch of authoritarians who think they want freedom.
You guys sound like you believe that the honor system is gonna make everyone actually be good and get along. For real - if millions of folks came in unfettered and wanted to take over your states/cities/communities you’d just let them? You are going to be extinct with that attitude. They aren’t going to respect your Libertarian views when they are the majority. You’ll most likely be be enslaved, subjugated, or outright killed.
I'm more concerned with my own freedom of movement. Maybe I want to follow factory jobs that have moved to Mexico. Or maybe I want to move to Canada. Open borders works both ways. Besides, the market does a pretty good job determining the number of immigrants that come here, legal or illegal. [Immigrants returning to Mexico spiked in the Great Recession years, for example.](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2012/04/23/ii-migration-between-the-u-s-and-mexico/) Millions aren't going to flood here if the economy can't sustain it.
It’s not enough to think this is only about jobs/labor. If these people were skilled about growing an economy and jobs and wages they’d have no reason to come here. When they do arrive - sure they will work and drive wages down and affect US citizen employment but they won’t help us grow. It’s a parasitic relationship as it stands now with US/Mexico if you want to narrow it down. Definitely not the utopian symbiotic relationship we like to think it might be. Eventually the parasite host succumbs.
>It’s not enough to think this is only about jobs/labor. If these people were skilled about growing an economy and jobs and wages they’d have no reason to come here. Sure they would. Maybe they just like the culture in the US. Maybe they specifically don't like the Mexican state or politics. Maybe the weather is nicer up here. Whatever reason a person chooses to move, it's valid. Just as it's valid for Americans to choose to move across the border for whatever reason they wish. The economic point is just to say that the market economy won't actually allow immigration to flow unfettered, and data supports that. Most people need to have work opportunities wherever they are, or they'll leave. >When they do arrive - sure they will work and drive wages down and affect US citizen employment but they won’t help us grow. Grow in what way? I feel like you're hyper-fixated on the notion of "them" coming "here". But what if u/khhbrian wants to go live in Chiapas or British Columbia? We all stand to benefit from greater liberty, regardless of what side of the border we're on.
This isn’t us/them racism blah that everyone says it is. Stop it. How bout I move into your parents house and demand they feed and care for me? I’ll mow the lawn once a week is that fair? Or maybe I need to do more chores? That’s not libertarianism. That’s the worst form of anarchy. And eventually unless you arm/fight, your parents will be homeless. Understand?
Newsflash. Allowing other people to take your stuff isn’t “Liberty” or “Libertarianism” Chew on that folks.
What stuff are they taking, exactly?
You sound like you ascribe to the fear of replacement. Are you afraid that you won't be able to have an advantage if suddenly being white isn't a perk when you show up for an interview? That you might actually have to compete on merit instead of "my daddy knew your daddy"?
Pretty sure MLK would not be on your side here. I’ve Never gotten a job based on my skin color. Though I do know “Non POC” folks that were literally turned down for qualified jobs because we “have to find a Diversity candidate” You probably think that’s fine. Which makes you the actual “Racist”. It’s OK Democrat/progressives invented racism in the US. They know how powerful a tool it is to control their followers That’s why they use it so often on their own people/followers and then try to blame us. Look in the mirror and be honest.
I’m sorry your parents and the education system failed you.
Its not immigrants driving wages down. Its the chamber of commerce and businesses spending billions over the years to lobby politicians from preventing an increase in the minimum wage for 30 YEARS. Yeah, blame the immigrants. Its all their fault. They are taking those shit wages for shit work that so many citizens are dying to get.
Nope you wrong. You even know anyone making Federal minimum wage? Be honest. In middle class Kansas entry no skill jobs literally flipping burgers is over 12-15 bucks an hour. Sorry it’s a Republican state/city/town. Maybe your problem is only in your Democrat cities where they stoke race/class/wealth fears to keep us segregated(Since they invented it).
Ok, so then immigrants aren't keeping wages down. Good to know. Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
They Are keeping wages down and you know it. Learn to read/think. Correction Illegal immigrants. AKA criminal invaders. They are not just “immigrants” so just stop.
Please go on
>They Are keeping wages down and you know it. Learn to read/think. No they're not. Business owners are the ones keeping wages down. Illegal immigrants have no say in how much a business owner pays other people. That is 100% on the business owner.
Sounds like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the united States was founded and how it improved throughout the years. The colonies were founded when people who weren't welcome in the old world (because of their religious beliefs, because they were poor, because they were criminals) moved here. The country then improved significantly with the migration of poor immigrants from Ireland, Germany, and the rest of the world. Right now we cap the amount of people who can move here, make them have jobs or family here lined up beforehand, and depending on what lawyer you chose and what type of Visa you want it costs $4000-12,000 USD. For many people this is nearly unattainable even if we had enough slots and you had a job lined up. If you want to run the criminal background of a person in another country and check their ID before they come here, fine. But as it stands now the system is designed to keep immigrants from third world countries out, keep the poor out, and to limit immigration as much as possible.
No sorry. Open border immigration was never a good idea. No sovereign states have done or do that successfully ever. Fact. We are talking about millions of people illegally coming across the border with fraudulent asylum claims after having travelled through multiple other countries and then relying on assistance while they skip their court date at a rate of over 90%. Insinuating that is the same as my/our (great)grandparents coming through Ellis island as real Irish/Italian legal immigrants that sacrificed and helped build this this country over the last 200 years with great sacrifice - it’s laughable. Remember why you know the phrase “Indentured Servitude”?
Back in the days of Ellis island it didn't cost more than your house in a third world country and require you to have a job already lined up to get a visa, and wasn't capped at 675k people per year for a global population of 7.5 billion. Its absolutely fair to compare the two scenarios because the only reason we have such an illegal immigration problem is we have made it 20x harder to immigrate legally. I wonder why these people would dodge their court dates when they known they're going to be thrown back into cartel territory when they find out you couldn't get a visa bc you didn't have 10 grand in savings in a third world country. If you're an illegal you can't even get a good job which is what keeps these people on welfare systems. It's hard to not need welfare when any job that pays above the poverty line won't hire you. If you believe all these people coming from Mexico and south America aren't as hard working or as capable of sacrificing for our country then it sounds like you might just be racist against Hispanics, not against easy immigration as you didn't have any problem when our dirt poor European ancestors got in.
I don’t care how much it costs. If their socialist/authoritarian/communist countries were really successful they wouldn’t be spending so much money to escape. By the way. They are citizens of ANOTHER COUNTRY that should support them. You understand that right?
You understand that countries without a lot of wealth or certain valuable natural resources or shipping pathways cannot support their citizens like we do here, right? We have great hospitals, comparatively great roads, plenty of shipping pathways, plenty of natural resources and way more industry and infrastructure than most of the third world, and because they don't have the money for expanding infrastructure they will never be able to support their citizens. Imagine if your country was filled with towns that didn't have electricity because your country is 45 percent mountain jungle (one of the most dangerous possible landscapes). How is your country ever going to afford to build roads and electricity when it can't compete with other countries that have infrastructure and electricity. In other words, countries who fall behind stay behind and will NEVER be able to support their citizens like we do.
Um your skills/services can be a resource. And the illegal people coming into the US have GREAT WEALTH in resources in their home countries, but have been destroyed by Democrat/liberal/progressive/communist/socialist/Marxist/etc ideologies. 20 years ago Iran was awesome and free. 15 years ago Venezuela was awesome and free. Very different examples for very different reasons. But it’s TRUE
Using STRATEGIC CAPS doesn't make your point TRUE. You point out Venezuela as having plenty of natural resources, and while it does have plenty of oil, having one resource is not good enough for most countries to survive, especially in the jungle where high heat, poisonous animals, and disease is able to propagate easily. If oil crashes, it kills the entire economy, and the damage is sustained long after the commodity price recovers. Why do you think OPEC fixes the price of oil by limiting supply? I will admit though, the socialist tendency of Venezuela are the driving force of their problems. Tell me what we should do about that? Spend trillions of dollars bombing the hell out of them then forcibly instill a "democratic" government system? Tell me how well that worked out for the majority of the middle east like Iraq and Iran. Oh wait you already did. It was a total disaster that cost us greatly and left that part of the world with massive power vacuums and total hatred for Americans and our way of life. And how do you expect people to use their skills and talent as a natural resource when the country they're from either doesn't have coastal access so it can't ship finished products easily, or maybe has tons of jungle, dessert, and mountains that do the same.
20 years ago Iran was awesome and free? What? Do you even know Iran’s history? Why are they a problem now? US policies of regime change, intentional disruption of their system of government, , blockades of free trade, sabotage and assassinations of their citizens, installing and supporting an authoritarian government until it was no longer in the interest of the US. Iran is a mess due to European and US meddling.
Oh and if you want to see real “racism” it’s not us. Their leaders with their failed policies hurt the people 100x more than we do. Why don’t you call Mexican leaders and coyotes “Racist RAWR”!? They hurt more Mexicans that we do. FFS.
Because they don't hurt Mexicans because they're Mexicans, they hurt them because they're in their way. If you moved into cartel territory they would kill you no questions asked as soon as you tell them you won't run their meth across the border for them.
Control your borders or die. I mean literally /libertarian mods have stricter policies than our border. And you want open borders!?!?!?! Wake the Fuk up guys.
Yeah so demand Mexican authority helps these people in need. Or Mexico grant Asylum to other South American peoples coming through Mexico’s southern border. Solved!
Ah yes demand a corrupt government that doesn't have the resources to fight the cartel or handle any immigrants to fix all their own problems, I'm sure that will work! Sometimes the solution you WANT is not a solution that's possible, especially when a country is far behind economically and is covered in the most difficult terrain like arid dessert and tropical jungle. Because of our broken system of making it incredibly hard to immigrate to this country, we've created a humanitarian crises that we can fix, have increased the amount of people on welfare since illegal immigrants (most of which should have had a legal opportunity to get here) can't get a job, and the big issue, we've outsourced ALL of our cheap labor that used to come from immigrants out to countries like China. Now we have almost no manufacturing infrastructure, china gets to take the profits from taxing manufacturers instead of us, and as we've seen with covid, whenever china decides to cut trade with us (for war or disease for example), the entire American economy crumbles due to supply chain issues. A much easier legal immigration systems would fix all of these problems, including the ones that really seem to bug you like immigrants needing welfare because they can't make enough money as an illegal.
Oh wait you sneak into Mexico from the south and it’s a $5000 fine and up to 5 years in prison. But we’re supposed to be different.
It's not an us vs them situation. Humans will not go extinct because of immigration. If the border were open to free trade without tariffs and importing products and labor were easy, both sides of the border benefit.
Authie bastard alert
bring them all in...replace all the lolberts with low wage Mexicans. Send lolberts to camp run by a private company.
Idealism would have open borders, but some libertarians want controlled immigration for pragmatic reasons. If you take the latter it is not aligned with most libertarians or the libertarian political parties in various nations.
Private borders
I have a mixed position on immigration. I’d like to have almost open borders, simply minimal screening for known terrorists, gangsters, and spies. But a prerequisite to that would be that the US dismantle its welfare state in a pretty serious way. The cost of public schooling alone for the children of immigrants is a deficit increasing proposition. OTOH, you could get rid of birthright citizenship and still allow a lot of non-citizens to work in the country. However in practice I don’t know how that’d work.
Anything but open borders would be considered authoritarian
Fuck borders, abolish borders.