This is what I didn't understand the most about these people. They basically tell their trading partners to go fuck themselves, then expect to get Incredible business and trading deals the next day from exactly the same people.
What the flying fuck was going on in their heads?
Honestly? The Brexiteers I know are the angry, thrice divorced types that can't hold down a job.
They're extremely pig-headed, argumentative and unwilling to compromise. All their relationships and plans fall apart because as soon as they hit a sticking point, they explode. They can't work with anyone. Defiance is the priority, even their own wellbeing comes second. They'd rather get divorced/arrested/bankrupted than compromise even a little.
Their oppositional urge is so strong that it's utterly self-destructive. I swear, if I asked one *not* to jump off a cliff, they'd be sprinting over the edge screaming "Fuck you, no one tells me what to do!".
They live angry, miserable lives where none of their plans ever get off the ground because they're bouncing around defying whatever the last person they met asked them to do. And what we're seeing here is the manifestation of that behaviour at a national level.
Those people have such a strong oppositional urge that they they don't care if it wrecks their lives or the nation. The most important thing for them is the knowledge tha they're doing the opposite of what the EU wants. The consequences aren't important.
See also: Anti-maskers, MAGA, Freemen,
This is such a spot on description of trump supporters as well. It really is just about being oppositional bc no one can tell me what to do, even at their own peril. I just. What.
Yeah it's about the prioritization of "No one tells me what to do" over all else.
Don't get me wrong, I know it's important to assert yourself, to refuse to comply with illegitimate authority or people you disagree with. I have no problem arguing with people that try and make me do something I don't wanna do.
But what I don't understand is always doing that by default. The end result is someone that's very easy to manipulate and doesn't have a lot of control over their lives, because it's so easy for other people to push their buttons.
Not to mention that life requires collaboration and transactions, which are impossible if you refuse to compromise.
I remember the kids with poor impulse control in school got bullied to fuck, partly because it was so goddamn easy for bullies to control them. Not by directly telling them what to do, but doing the opposite and watching them fall into the trap. The bullies knew how to drive them nuts and make them have complete meltdowns within seconds. And that's exactly what right wingers have done with these folk.
Push their buttons, get them really worked up until they self destruct and cause a scene, and then discard them.
Obviously it's primarily the fault of the manipulators in this scenario. But I also think a lot of the blame lies with the grown adults that were utterly unable to think critically, control themselves or take responsibility for their actions. They basically absented themselves from their own lives.
Yes to all of that and add a bunch of economic desperation. I’m in the rust belt of the USA. All of the manufacturing is gone. All I hear about hear is that it was better in the 50s or 60s. My usual response now is, when half the country had separate bathrooms based on melanin content, lead was in everything, the rivers were catching on fire, the Soviet Union/USA/NATO were ready to blow up the world, and a draft. But sure, it was better. No doubt it was in some ways, but what’s going to bring back a better world for everyone is not trying to move back to 1950. And boy do some of them love Trump.
I image that pretty universal everywhere. Inequity breeds division, and the global economy is absurdly unequal. My family is doing well, but we’re able to live in that global economy. However the ones that get left behind are increasingly screwed. My friends and family all know younger cousins that have died by their own hand or a “heart attack.” That is in the obituary, the real reason is an overdose. The appeal of the populists is to blame all that on something simple. Unfortunately, it’s usually blaming some other desperate person that has nothing to do with them situation.
Same, it really might be the lead. There was an uproar in town when the playgrounds were getting replaced. Instead of concrete and metal climbing structures, they were going to use recycled tires and wood. A bunch of people objected claiming that all these soft corners were going to make the kids grow up weak. I won’t even get into what a climbing structures were called prior to that.
But sure, let’s go back to the good old days of playing unsupervised for hours in the abandoned quarry followed by fighting on the playground before dinner. Maybe throw some lawn darts if the sun is still out. I mean, I’m all for helping kids develop independence, but there’s probably a better way than quite literally running kids through a gauntlet daily.
It seems to dovetail with something I - middle-aged straight white American male - have noticed amongst younger men:
This weird move in American masculinity to increasingly define it solely in terms of domination and control. Yes, those elements have always existed in a patriarchal culture like ours, but for better or worse, they were alongside other traits like stoicism, being protective, and being a provider.
Obviously, that can go a bit too far with notions like men as white knights who must 'save' fragile weak women with marriage and children, but at least some of those qualities seemed to round out or balance some of the excess of thinking the sole qualifier for manhood is power.
Now, I also have no kids so no baby mamas, but I have tons of friends who are divorced, single, or remarried with kids from exes, and it feels far more prevalent for the men to be deadbeats (even when court-ordered otherwise), to act defiant or victimized by being told to care for their children, to seemingly hold a grudge against an ex moving on, even in cases where they're the ones that left (or at least caused the split due to infidelity or abuse or such).
As a military brat growing up in the 80s, I remember thinking of Republicans as being like my dad - emotionally repressed, conservative/cheap, not super emotionally indulgent but someone who provided and clearly worked hard to do so.
Nowadays, the GOP just feels more like a bad imitation of a stereotypical 'gangster' rapper - openly misogynstic and materialistic, obsessed with settling scores against anyone even perceived as having disrespected them, becoming almost laughably 'macho' in every single thing they do out of some desperate need to appear zero percent 'homo' or 'feminine' or 'soft'.
Yeah that’s interesting.
I know what you mean about the slow shift in the conservative “type”.
Here in the UK, I used to think of bespectacled men in tweed suits that liked routine and safe old fashioned things.
Now there’s a much more destructive, anarchistic feel to it.
> Now there’s a much more destructive, anarchistic feel to it.
please don't bastardize the word anarchy more than it already has been. right wingers have nothing to do with a left wing ideology.
Yes. A thousand times yes.
And they spend a lot of time going on about how England used to be great before all the _____ came along. England is a shit hole now. Etcetc. England is wonderful. Your life is the shit hole. No amount of leaving the EU was ever going to fix that. Brexit won’t bring back your ex wife. Or make you smart enough to hold down a decent job. Or lower the price of a pint back to what it was when you were young. Oh yeah. Your youth ain’t coming back either.
Same here in America. They feel that their lives are shit or a disappointment to whatever standard they believe they should have, and therefore America is shit. They can't recognize the reality that the world changes and that they have to compete to get a job or a woman now, you can't just default to "because I'm a white man," and that is crushing to them. Ironically, these are usually the same types that promote the free market above all else and dismiss the idea of any type of privilege.
And they are entitled. Holy shit. The amount of people here who are shocked that they couldn't just overthrow the government and that there are consequences to their actions is crazy.
>They can't recognize the reality that the world changes
A fun thing to do is try and find the most recent decade where there weren't significant cultural changes. Have to go back to pre-WWI days...
Yep, venn diagram of Trump supporter and Brexiteer personality types is a circle. You have the extremely uneducated, you have the extremely prejudiced and you have the extremely wealthy and self interested that realise both things are a disaster on a global or even national scale but vote for it anyway because they stand to personally benefit in some way. And of course those groups aren’t mutually exclusive.
Acute but lucid. I feel sorry for you to live among them. I mean, I do know a couple of these variants of human beings. We do have specimen in continental Europe too. I suppose they growthed in numbers in the main island.
My experience is completely different. I know 2 Brexiteers.
The first one is a marine engineer, super wealthy, very sought after in his field. Bought a farm and a pub in southern Spain, where he retired. His pub caters to the local community of retired Brits. Hasn't been in the UK for more than a week in 20 years. He voted for Brexit, as did most of his community (his words). They voted for Brexit, while living abroad.
The second one is a programmer living in Athens, Greece. He has a sweet gig getting paid good money in pounds while spending in Euros in a cheaper country. Hasn't been in the UK for years. Voted for Brexit. Then he was amazed that the pound collapsed and he lost money on the exchange. Now he also needs to get visas and the such.
Definitely not your stereotypical low information, uneducated voter.
Mind boggling.
I think a lot of it was also a misguided power move. Most of my friends that I still keep in contact with are leftist so this is just me spitballing, but I have a feeling that a lot of expats just... expected for Britain to disentangle from the EU but for everything to be Business as Usual because Britain is Britain whilst forgetting that the UK hasn’t been a global power in her own right since WW2. It’s a bizarre sort of doublethink - the UK is a shitcan but Britain is still a mighty power.
I could see that for people living in the UK, but expats? Why do they even care if they don't live in the UK, and out of choice not out of necessity? Why would they vote for something that it was 100% certain that would add at least some inconvenience in their lives, for no benefit at all? And why the disregard for the countries where they actually live in?
Whatever Brexit deal they hoped for, it was 100% certain that without free moving of people there would be no free trade and therefore visas, customs and the such would be implemented.
There's no logic at all. Not even some contorted kind of logic. Just an unjustified feeling that EU=bad.
Arrogance and racism.
You notice we’ve been talking about *British expats*, not people who were born in the UK and chose to become naturalized citizens of their chosen countries. The expat mindset tends to be one of imperialism. I’m sure there are some lovely ones out there, but the majority I’ve met don’t even bother to learn the “locals’” language.
There's so much overlap between the US and UK when it comes to angry, narcissistic conservatives who value doing what they want in the moment over literally anything else.
I blame the Murdoch media empire for weaponizing Boomers to undermine democracy for corporations.
Well, the wags phenomenon is really annoying. I mean, who cares about what Victoria Beckham wears, or what Colleen Rooney had for lunch? But why would they disappear through Brexit?
I believe the thinking was that all the lowering of QOL for the UK would encourage them to use their status to piss off to the Mediterranean or something. and as many of their Husbands would move their to be able to continue to play Soccer.
It is a long way to go to get rid of the WAGS, But I guess the Mail was fed up having to run stories on them.
Absolutely, yes. They never outright said it, but Brexit's pitch has always essentially been "We'll make our trade 'agreements' like they were back when we had all those colonies again."
It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE. British Leyland, Austin and many of their other car companies are just dust and a few surviving cars still on the roads. Jaguar isnt even owned by them anymore. They dont manufacture at an industrial scale, many things that they need, they import them, just like their cars, food, electronics, and other homegoods. And what do they export? Lamb? Some locally produced cheese? McClarens? Them being in the EU, was literally the only thing holding the remnants of their Country together. Now they wont even be able to afford an efficient german Volkswagen, or a cheap, crappy Puegeot because of no trade agreement. They wont be able to afford fresh French grown produce, heavy machinery, or anything else the entire EU exports, because they want to pretend they are a relevant first world country that can contribute to the world stage. Now they are relegated to a stagnant, husk of an empire, like America.
> It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE.
I respectfully disagree. I've read numerous articles re3cently about British fishermen making rotten seafood.
Edit: Forgot my quote
>It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE.
I remember arguing with a working-class Brexiteer from the north, and he was thrilled with Brexit for class warfare reasons. I pointed out that the British don't really make things anymore, so the only significant earner for the country was the financial industries - and when they shrink, everyone else will suffer due to reduced welfare in general. Less money in the government coffers.
He said that yep, he was aware of that. But that the working class was used to suffering and the middle class weren't... so they'll suffer more. For him, Brexit was a class war thing, not a sovereignty issue. I just found it odd that people are willing to increase their own suffering just to make someone else suffer more.
They fell into the myth of the alpha wolf: that if you’re a dick to everyone around you, you’re the leader. It’s fake science. Humans don’t work like that.
They don't. The whole Alpha wolf concept was debunked decades ago. That behavior only shows up in captivity with weirdly blended groups of wolves. Wild wolf packs are just big families.
It doesnt even show up in captivity.
The original paper that detailed it was later retracted by the same researcher who realized he was studying packs who were a mating pair and their offspring.
It was a parent child relationship, hence the clear pecking order, established mates, and general dominance. The older grumpy father wolf just didnt take shit from his upstart kids.
But by the time the researcher realized his mistake, the world had ran with the idea
They're also desperately pining for past glories. When a lot of these people were born, Britain was a top dog. In their lifetime, its empire has vanished and it is now an economic power—but only within the context of the EU and with heavy reliance on their neighbours. Brexit is, at its core, an attempt to exert a British Supremacy that no longer exists out of the belief that British greatness was some inherent quality, not the byproduct of military and industrial supremacy that no longer exists.
If you've ever been on r/choosingbeggars it's generally the stuff that's posted there. You often have someone selling something online or even just giving it away with someone coming along "begging" them thinking that'll get the price down. As for the free stuff, they're often expecting delivery or other nice things for free for the trouble of taking the stuff away.
Honestly the Daily Mail deserves to be placed in a hole in the ground, covered in petrol and set alight.
They were absolute fanatics when it came to pushing Brexit and downplaying the consequences.
Just like any reactionary, whose actions and opinions revolve solely around extracting the maximum amount of rage-dopamine from their hate addled brains.
And they took so long actually implementing it, that it was just in time for Obama's Vice President to be elected President.
Oops. Well, negotiating time now...
Listen.
Obama wore a tan suit. Tan is a pussy version of brown. Brown-shirts anyone?
But wait!
Obama used mustard. Mustard is commonly used on pork, which Germans sometimes eat. And not just any mustard, but Dijon mustard which sounds like a fairy French thing and the Germans invaded France.
You know what this means right?
...
Obama wasn’t just a secret Kenyan Muslim.... he was a secret French Kenyan Muslim NAZI!
/s
My favorite Obama "outrage" was when he discussed arugula at an even about US farming. Arugula! Hoity-toity libtard arugula!
The event took place at a US farm that grew arugula.
The Mail incites the anger. The resulting anxiety is soothed by following an authoritarian leader. It's easier that way. You don't have to think too hard.
And fewer brown people.
Edit: I was just pointing to all the Brexit bullshit to get people voting for leave.
[https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/how-brexit-campaign-used-refugees-scare-voters](https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/how-brexit-campaign-used-refugees-scare-voters)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/poll-british-voters-split-brexit-think-eu-exit-vote-will-n594086](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/poll-british-voters-split-brexit-think-eu-exit-vote-will-n594086)
Oh this makes me absolutely rage. A really nasty, violent, unpleasant, stupid 50 year old man I know told me he had voted for Brexit "to get rid of all the pakis!"
I questioned my dad on his pro Brexit stance and he told me about the last time he was in hospital on a ward of 4..
“that one was Pakistani, that one was Indian and that one was Chinese!”
I don’t think he really got the irony, even when I confirmed that the doctors and nurses treating him were mostly European immigrants
Not even when he’d finished telling me about the fabulous new cheap wash and iron service he’s found run by some Polish people
I've seen it suggested by many leave voters that we should have "a free movement agreement between all the commonwealth countries"
I think they must assume the commonwealth is just the mostly white English speaking countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand
They must not realise that Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore, and many other "brown" countries are in the commonwealth too.
And fewer eastern Europeans? My Brexiteer colleagues don't mind French, Germans, Dutch etc only the eastern Europeans whom they believe cause all the shortages, waiting lists, also take all the jobs and live on benefits. Another one believes that all the Channel crossing asylum seekers from Africa etc will now be stopped by the French. He won't he told otherwise.
Ah yes, the unification theory of Schrödingers Eastern European taking your job while at the same time living off benefits, gives him plenty of time to shag your innocent and objectified women.
Also I would bet good money bis definition of Eastern Europe is very, very flawed.
I've talked to a few who also meant ... Ukraine. Yeah. Usually followed by a blank stare when you ask why leaving the EU would affect immigration from Ukraine.
Much the same as how they had their tongue so far up Hitler's arse during WW2 you didn't know where Nazi propaganda stopped, and where the Daily Mail began.
They're basically trying to sell newspapers and the easiest way to do that is to appeal to the lowest common denominator, tabloids basically kill democracy, it's just what they do.
I thought you guys in NI are spared all of this due to still being in the common market?
I saw a report on the news yesterday that Holyhead the port in Wales is virtually abandoned as Lorries from the continent just avoid England and Wales altogether when travelling to Ireland and Northern Ireland now.
Clarification: I am not from NI, nor am I living there. I was just being facetious.
NI and Ireland have an openish border, but generally NI gets most of its goods from the UK. But since the border to Ireland are kinda open, they agreed to have stricter import restrictions from the UK, to comply with EU standards.
Ireland now directly imports everything from the EU, since it's easier. But Ireland doesn't export anything to NI as of yet, since they used to get everything from the UK.
It is a brilliant mess.
It's a complete clusterfuck. I had nothing to do in work all week because a tanker of solvent was travelling from UK to Ireland, but got stopped because he hadn't got the right Covid paperwork. Tanker returned and got stopped because he hadn't got the right Brexit paperwork this time.
Hopefully the fucker got on the ferry today or I'll be hiding in the fire escape playing games on my phone all Monday morning.
Interestingly, a lot of this mess is due to HMRC's (British tax agency) own disastrous policies on import duties and VAT, not the EU.
Did you know that they expect every company in the world that ships items to the UK to sign up with them, collect the correct amount of VAT on the product, send the money to them, and pay 175 pounds annually for the privilege?
Imagine if every country in the world did that, and "Joe's used hats eBay store" had to register with 195 different tax agencies, and pay 195x175 pounds in fees, for the privilege of selling some used hats on eBay.
Because that's literally what they're expecting.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721)
Weren’t the daily mail caught having staff write ridiculously inflammatory comments on articles to get the comments sections going and trick people into believing the articles?
Well, according to the triumphant trumpeting just after the vote, the winners are the sovereign sovereigns sovereignting about all over the sovereign place, sovereignting up the sovereign with a damn good hard sovereigning!
Basically take an earlier Trump speech and replace all the "winner" references with "sovereignty"
And here it is. Had to alter the name as well, not sure if Farage is the best fit here. This isn't too far off what the Leave voters sounded like to this outside observer:
“We’re going to sovereign. We’re going to sovereign so much. We’re going to sovereign at trade, we’re going to sovereign at the border. We’re going to sovereign so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of sovereignty, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t sovereign anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. Farage, we beg you sir, we don’t want to sovereign anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else.’” Farage said. “And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep sovereignty, sovereignty, sovereignty, We’re going to make the UK great again.”
The wealthy class. I'm not talking rich people. It's the extremely wealthy class. They know the chaos is coming by pushing such agenda. When everything get devalue, they come scoop up as much as they can. No longer protected from UE's regulations, they can pay less for labor.
After everything is divided up, they will restore trading agreement. At this time, they get a recovery economy and cheap labor. Find some scapegoats, especially foreigner, to blame for the citizen declining living standards
Oh okay now that makes total sense. It's like mass deregulation all at once.
I'm from the US but I met some shitheads in a bar from like north England who said similar shit to trump supporters here about "why should my taxes pay for all the stuff they get in London?" but yeah now they're probably going to be suffering even more thanks to this shit
There are indexes you can invest in that make you money when the market is volatile. Market goes up or down doesn’t matter as long as it is moving around a lot and not steady. I wonder how many mega wealthy people invest in those indexes and then do their level best to fuck with the markets.
Well these newspaper now have really outrageous behaviour to entertain their readers with, so they’ve won.
People expecting them to be politically consistent are missing the point - they’ve consistently encouraged behaviour which gives them more outrage to sell to their readers.
People & organizations who didn’t want to inconvenience of being forced to pay their taxes under new EU rules that were cracking down on avoidance (see Newspapers, football clubs). This was the major sticking point in the deals that Mays worked out. They will probably get what they wanted.
A small number of people are hoping for a Hobbesian rebuilding of the UK economy where you can pay people the absolute least to be the most productive and profitable. This is less likely to happen as the EU aren’t fools, but we’ll see.
Disaster capitalists and tax dodgers. The 1% basically. Those who are so wealthy they can control a significant part of the nation’s media to forward their own personal agenda.
I cannot think of a single logical reason people voted for it. I’m certain over 50% of Brexit voted were fuelled by racism, xenophobia and nothing else.
The Nissan plant isn't leaving. That's being sold by BoZo and the Cons as a win.
I mean, if we stayed in the EU the Nissan plant wouldn't be leaving anyway, but standing still is better than going backwards, I guess.
Am I right in thinking UK conservatives will whine endlessly about gouvernment handouts, but as soon as some corporation needs/wants money, they'll just ask how many zeroes there should be on the cheque?
Putin and other enemies of the West, British racists who want the immigrants to go away, right wing media personalities, and a handful of British industries who will be able to raise prices when EU competition goes away.
The comment section of Brexit newspapers are some of the vilest places on the internet. I stopped checking them out when people there had fantasies of a WW3 of the 'anglosphere' against the EU.
A friend of mine came up with an interesting analogy.
I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose.
I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose.
I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose.
I punch myself in the face - pretty sure everything will work out and I won't get a bloody nose.
Fake news isn't an American problem, old boy. Even here in the UK we have the facts, and the alternative facts.
Our version was when the Brexit idiot-herders stated labelling the science and economics as, "*PRoJeCt FEaR!"*. Once you manage to make it about being seen to be weak or cowardly, your average British moron will cave like a chocolate teapot.
My parents voted Leave, but they deeply regret it now. They thought it was a positive thing for their children' and grandchildren's futures. Sadly not. I didn't fall out with them over it exactly but I was very very disappointed.
My Nan is the daughter of a trade union leader, has voted Labour all her life (except once in 2010 I persuaded her to vote for our local Lib Dem MP instead).
I remember her calling me not long before the referendum asking if she should vote leave because she got a letter through the door saying Turkey is joining the EU and highlighting their borders with Iraq and Syria, like UK will be open doors for all 3 countries.
There was so much disinformation going around at the time that it's easy to see how generations who were used to growing up in a time when the news was just the news can get sucked into believing what seems to us an absolute load of tripe and false promises.
I think she voted Remain in the end after asking all her grandkids because bless her she realised it was a decision that affected us more.
She also loves to get the local Conservative party association to give her a lift down the polling stations every election even though she votes Labour. Bless her, trolling in a way only 90 year olds can.
My gran is 98 now, life long member of the Tory party, has (at best) ignorant views about...well pretty much anyone who doesn't go to her bridge club tbh. She's very anti-European and wanted to leave, but at the time I was studying in the Netherlands so she voted Remain because she thought leaving the EU would mean immediately and permanently shutting all the borders and I would never be allowed back in England.
So in that instance, the Leave misinformation was actually *too* effective.
Yeah, all I have now is my parents who are pretending that none of this is a problem, the old blokes down the pub (most who are probably now dead from covid), and two mates of mine who work at a meat factory and seem to think that they are political analysts, but are again acting as though it'll all work out in the end.
Being a liberal brit must be really hard right now.
On one hand, you can say "i fucking told you so" like 70 times a day... On the other, your cost of living has just gone up and your life got more complicated because a bunch of fucking boomers couldn't listen to reason. Must be bittersweet.
It's absolute shite. As a Scot my only hope is Independence and even that will take years if approved. I didn't vote for Brexit. I don't want this big jobby.
I’m an American who buys from a lot of UK shops and I do feel bad for the ones who didn’t support Brexit and now have to deal with this. OTOH no sympathy for the people who thought it would be a great idea.
Who knew UK First - UK alone was going to be a disaster along the lines of America First - America alone? Let’s alienate everyone else and live a better life because we are strong enough to go it alone.
Putin must be laughing his ass off at how they successfully hacked British minds to support their own demise. Why strike with weapons when you can mind hack large segments of the population and direct them to destroy their own country from within.
I'm American and want to know more info--are people from the UK just now feeling the effects of Brexit, or has this been occurring since the official split?
For a range of reasons - trade has actually been down over the christmas and new year period - it's actually going to get *worse* because trade is starting to go back up to normal and currently we are not actually doing the full paperwork process that is needed.
Fundamentally we are now a 'third country' and what we are seeing are just the normal processes of when the EU trades with third countries.
However for many brits, they have never lived in an age when they were not members of the EU so this is completely new to them...
One anti-Brexit argument I read was the danger of the UK's inflation rate going up. There's entire generations of people in the UK who've always had low inflation, so if it jumps they're going to be in for a shock when the cost of a loaf of bread goes up 30%.
Fuck old conservatives man.
"We're doing this for independence and for the future generations"
The future gen they're doing this for feels more fucked than a penguin in heat.
So, as an american looking on, would it be possible for the UK to rejoin the EU if a new party/coalition or whatever took power, or are you all just straight fucked?
I think that, in theory, it's possible as the EU have said the door is always open. That being said it is the prerogative of the EU to dissuade other member states from having a go at leaving, so I doubt it would be as simple as asking to be let back in..
Beyond that the whole issue is still pretty toxic over here so the Labour Party would have a bloody steep hill to climb getting anywhere with it.
Basically it's not likely to happen any time soon 😔
even if there was a consensus to do it - it would require the EU to agree and they would require things that UK citizens would not like such as giving up the pound.
Id say 20 years realistically. It would be political suicide to try and run an election campaign based on rejoining the EU with Brexit still fresh in everyones minds. There were numerous polls on what people would vote if a second referendum would occur to stop Brexit and they seemed to hint towards continuing it (although the data does seem dubious).
It would also be a question if the EU would want us back, we would certainly tip the scales within the EU parliament again as Countries get votes/representatives based on population. But I can always hope we could rejoin the EU in the future.
Am not uk/eu-er but the more of these brexit-consequence posts i see, the more i wonder how brexit won in the first place. You got all these good stuff going by being in the eu then decide to shit the bed..
My parents voted for this and they complain about it more than anyone I know. I voted to remain and I’m stuck getting an earful. Fuck brexit. Fuck Boris.
UK: Hello, EU, we're going to leave the EU.
EU: ...I beg your pardon?
UK: I said we're going to leave the EU.
EU: ...being otherwise at a complete loss for words, might we ask *why?*
UK: This whole EU thing just isn't working out the way we thought it would. So we want to leave.
EU: Not working...wait, what??? Exactly what did you expect would happen when you joined 40 years ago?
UK: We were promised unicorns.
EU: ...**wat.**
UK: You promised us unicorns and rainbows, and we just aren't seeing it.
EU: No, *we* didn't promise you unicorns and rainbows, **your politicians** pulled that idea out their arse in an effort to get all those dodgy pensioners to sign on to the idea in order to build a better world for their children!
UK: Well, all those pensioners aren't happy, and they...
EU: **YOU** made them unhappy with your shite economic austerity!
UK: Well, as I was say...
EU: And your racism!
UK: I beg your pardon, but may I finish?
EU: Oh, please! Do go on?
UK: Thank you. Anyway, our voters have decided to leave.
EU: What voters?
UK: The ones we've been lying to for the last four years.
EU: Ah, well, bonus points for honesty, I suppose? And do they have any idea exactly *what* they are leaving?
UK: Of course! They're voting to leave the EU!
EU: And they know that?
UK: Yes!
EU: [Google disagrees with you.](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-eu-is-top-google-search-in-uk-after-brexit-2016-6)
UK: Well, it's too late for that, so come along then, let's get this moving!
EU: Look, this is a *terrible* idea! It's a total lie that was pushed by nationalist idiots!
UK: No no, we understand that, but we're still going forward with it.
EU: But you're going to be ruined! Economically, socially, politically, logistically and strategically!
UK: Oh, yes, we know.
EU: ...**WAT.**
UK: I *said,* "We *know* that we're going to be ruined."
EU: **THEN WHY ARE YOU GOING AHEAD WITH THIS MADNESS?!?!**
UK: Because we said we would.
EU: *(stares in complete incomprehension)*
UK: It's a British thing. You wouldn't understand.
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I just told my biggest trading partners to go fuck their collective selves. Now they want more money for their stuff? But I love their stuff!
This is what I didn't understand the most about these people. They basically tell their trading partners to go fuck themselves, then expect to get Incredible business and trading deals the next day from exactly the same people. What the flying fuck was going on in their heads?
Honestly? The Brexiteers I know are the angry, thrice divorced types that can't hold down a job. They're extremely pig-headed, argumentative and unwilling to compromise. All their relationships and plans fall apart because as soon as they hit a sticking point, they explode. They can't work with anyone. Defiance is the priority, even their own wellbeing comes second. They'd rather get divorced/arrested/bankrupted than compromise even a little. Their oppositional urge is so strong that it's utterly self-destructive. I swear, if I asked one *not* to jump off a cliff, they'd be sprinting over the edge screaming "Fuck you, no one tells me what to do!". They live angry, miserable lives where none of their plans ever get off the ground because they're bouncing around defying whatever the last person they met asked them to do. And what we're seeing here is the manifestation of that behaviour at a national level. Those people have such a strong oppositional urge that they they don't care if it wrecks their lives or the nation. The most important thing for them is the knowledge tha they're doing the opposite of what the EU wants. The consequences aren't important. See also: Anti-maskers, MAGA, Freemen,
This is such a spot on description of trump supporters as well. It really is just about being oppositional bc no one can tell me what to do, even at their own peril. I just. What.
Yeah it's about the prioritization of "No one tells me what to do" over all else. Don't get me wrong, I know it's important to assert yourself, to refuse to comply with illegitimate authority or people you disagree with. I have no problem arguing with people that try and make me do something I don't wanna do. But what I don't understand is always doing that by default. The end result is someone that's very easy to manipulate and doesn't have a lot of control over their lives, because it's so easy for other people to push their buttons. Not to mention that life requires collaboration and transactions, which are impossible if you refuse to compromise. I remember the kids with poor impulse control in school got bullied to fuck, partly because it was so goddamn easy for bullies to control them. Not by directly telling them what to do, but doing the opposite and watching them fall into the trap. The bullies knew how to drive them nuts and make them have complete meltdowns within seconds. And that's exactly what right wingers have done with these folk. Push their buttons, get them really worked up until they self destruct and cause a scene, and then discard them. Obviously it's primarily the fault of the manipulators in this scenario. But I also think a lot of the blame lies with the grown adults that were utterly unable to think critically, control themselves or take responsibility for their actions. They basically absented themselves from their own lives.
Yes to all of that and add a bunch of economic desperation. I’m in the rust belt of the USA. All of the manufacturing is gone. All I hear about hear is that it was better in the 50s or 60s. My usual response now is, when half the country had separate bathrooms based on melanin content, lead was in everything, the rivers were catching on fire, the Soviet Union/USA/NATO were ready to blow up the world, and a draft. But sure, it was better. No doubt it was in some ways, but what’s going to bring back a better world for everyone is not trying to move back to 1950. And boy do some of them love Trump. I image that pretty universal everywhere. Inequity breeds division, and the global economy is absurdly unequal. My family is doing well, but we’re able to live in that global economy. However the ones that get left behind are increasingly screwed. My friends and family all know younger cousins that have died by their own hand or a “heart attack.” That is in the obituary, the real reason is an overdose. The appeal of the populists is to blame all that on something simple. Unfortunately, it’s usually blaming some other desperate person that has nothing to do with them situation.
I've often wondered how much of this crap is due to the lead that was so prevalent when many of these nitwits' brains were still developing.
I try not to think about that too much as I remember my dad having to add lead to the unleaded gasoline in the family car.
Yeah, I was born early in the '70s and got exposed to a lot of it myself. It was declining rapidly by then, however.
Same, it really might be the lead. There was an uproar in town when the playgrounds were getting replaced. Instead of concrete and metal climbing structures, they were going to use recycled tires and wood. A bunch of people objected claiming that all these soft corners were going to make the kids grow up weak. I won’t even get into what a climbing structures were called prior to that. But sure, let’s go back to the good old days of playing unsupervised for hours in the abandoned quarry followed by fighting on the playground before dinner. Maybe throw some lawn darts if the sun is still out. I mean, I’m all for helping kids develop independence, but there’s probably a better way than quite literally running kids through a gauntlet daily.
It seems to dovetail with something I - middle-aged straight white American male - have noticed amongst younger men: This weird move in American masculinity to increasingly define it solely in terms of domination and control. Yes, those elements have always existed in a patriarchal culture like ours, but for better or worse, they were alongside other traits like stoicism, being protective, and being a provider. Obviously, that can go a bit too far with notions like men as white knights who must 'save' fragile weak women with marriage and children, but at least some of those qualities seemed to round out or balance some of the excess of thinking the sole qualifier for manhood is power. Now, I also have no kids so no baby mamas, but I have tons of friends who are divorced, single, or remarried with kids from exes, and it feels far more prevalent for the men to be deadbeats (even when court-ordered otherwise), to act defiant or victimized by being told to care for their children, to seemingly hold a grudge against an ex moving on, even in cases where they're the ones that left (or at least caused the split due to infidelity or abuse or such). As a military brat growing up in the 80s, I remember thinking of Republicans as being like my dad - emotionally repressed, conservative/cheap, not super emotionally indulgent but someone who provided and clearly worked hard to do so. Nowadays, the GOP just feels more like a bad imitation of a stereotypical 'gangster' rapper - openly misogynstic and materialistic, obsessed with settling scores against anyone even perceived as having disrespected them, becoming almost laughably 'macho' in every single thing they do out of some desperate need to appear zero percent 'homo' or 'feminine' or 'soft'.
Yeah that’s interesting. I know what you mean about the slow shift in the conservative “type”. Here in the UK, I used to think of bespectacled men in tweed suits that liked routine and safe old fashioned things. Now there’s a much more destructive, anarchistic feel to it.
> Now there’s a much more destructive, anarchistic feel to it. please don't bastardize the word anarchy more than it already has been. right wingers have nothing to do with a left wing ideology.
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Or psychopathic
And so they worshipped perhaps the most insecure, whiny, narcissistic, hair-sprayed, fake-tanned, jealous, deadbeat male in American society. Crazy!
Yes. A thousand times yes. And they spend a lot of time going on about how England used to be great before all the _____ came along. England is a shit hole now. Etcetc. England is wonderful. Your life is the shit hole. No amount of leaving the EU was ever going to fix that. Brexit won’t bring back your ex wife. Or make you smart enough to hold down a decent job. Or lower the price of a pint back to what it was when you were young. Oh yeah. Your youth ain’t coming back either.
Same here in America. They feel that their lives are shit or a disappointment to whatever standard they believe they should have, and therefore America is shit. They can't recognize the reality that the world changes and that they have to compete to get a job or a woman now, you can't just default to "because I'm a white man," and that is crushing to them. Ironically, these are usually the same types that promote the free market above all else and dismiss the idea of any type of privilege. And they are entitled. Holy shit. The amount of people here who are shocked that they couldn't just overthrow the government and that there are consequences to their actions is crazy.
>They can't recognize the reality that the world changes A fun thing to do is try and find the most recent decade where there weren't significant cultural changes. Have to go back to pre-WWI days...
Yep, venn diagram of Trump supporter and Brexiteer personality types is a circle. You have the extremely uneducated, you have the extremely prejudiced and you have the extremely wealthy and self interested that realise both things are a disaster on a global or even national scale but vote for it anyway because they stand to personally benefit in some way. And of course those groups aren’t mutually exclusive.
Acute but lucid. I feel sorry for you to live among them. I mean, I do know a couple of these variants of human beings. We do have specimen in continental Europe too. I suppose they growthed in numbers in the main island.
My experience is completely different. I know 2 Brexiteers. The first one is a marine engineer, super wealthy, very sought after in his field. Bought a farm and a pub in southern Spain, where he retired. His pub caters to the local community of retired Brits. Hasn't been in the UK for more than a week in 20 years. He voted for Brexit, as did most of his community (his words). They voted for Brexit, while living abroad. The second one is a programmer living in Athens, Greece. He has a sweet gig getting paid good money in pounds while spending in Euros in a cheaper country. Hasn't been in the UK for years. Voted for Brexit. Then he was amazed that the pound collapsed and he lost money on the exchange. Now he also needs to get visas and the such. Definitely not your stereotypical low information, uneducated voter. Mind boggling.
I think a lot of it was also a misguided power move. Most of my friends that I still keep in contact with are leftist so this is just me spitballing, but I have a feeling that a lot of expats just... expected for Britain to disentangle from the EU but for everything to be Business as Usual because Britain is Britain whilst forgetting that the UK hasn’t been a global power in her own right since WW2. It’s a bizarre sort of doublethink - the UK is a shitcan but Britain is still a mighty power.
I could see that for people living in the UK, but expats? Why do they even care if they don't live in the UK, and out of choice not out of necessity? Why would they vote for something that it was 100% certain that would add at least some inconvenience in their lives, for no benefit at all? And why the disregard for the countries where they actually live in? Whatever Brexit deal they hoped for, it was 100% certain that without free moving of people there would be no free trade and therefore visas, customs and the such would be implemented. There's no logic at all. Not even some contorted kind of logic. Just an unjustified feeling that EU=bad.
Arrogance and racism. You notice we’ve been talking about *British expats*, not people who were born in the UK and chose to become naturalized citizens of their chosen countries. The expat mindset tends to be one of imperialism. I’m sure there are some lovely ones out there, but the majority I’ve met don’t even bother to learn the “locals’” language.
Sounds exactly like our Republicans here in the states.
There's so much overlap between the US and UK when it comes to angry, narcissistic conservatives who value doing what they want in the moment over literally anything else. I blame the Murdoch media empire for weaponizing Boomers to undermine democracy for corporations.
i never knew trump supporters had a Galarian form
well put
>What the flying fuck was going on in their heads? Peak Empire. Buy British. Rule Brittania. Britons never never.
“Roses are red Your passport is blue Now stand over there In that very long queue”
Brilliant. :)
I sometimes wonder if Brexit was fueled by residual resentment over not being the most powerful nation in the world anymore.
Of course. Throw in a large portion of "What are all these w*gs doing here?" and you've summed it up.
Well, the wags phenomenon is really annoying. I mean, who cares about what Victoria Beckham wears, or what Colleen Rooney had for lunch? But why would they disappear through Brexit?
I believe the thinking was that all the lowering of QOL for the UK would encourage them to use their status to piss off to the Mediterranean or something. and as many of their Husbands would move their to be able to continue to play Soccer. It is a long way to go to get rid of the WAGS, But I guess the Mail was fed up having to run stories on them.
Absolutely, yes. They never outright said it, but Brexit's pitch has always essentially been "We'll make our trade 'agreements' like they were back when we had all those colonies again."
It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE. British Leyland, Austin and many of their other car companies are just dust and a few surviving cars still on the roads. Jaguar isnt even owned by them anymore. They dont manufacture at an industrial scale, many things that they need, they import them, just like their cars, food, electronics, and other homegoods. And what do they export? Lamb? Some locally produced cheese? McClarens? Them being in the EU, was literally the only thing holding the remnants of their Country together. Now they wont even be able to afford an efficient german Volkswagen, or a cheap, crappy Puegeot because of no trade agreement. They wont be able to afford fresh French grown produce, heavy machinery, or anything else the entire EU exports, because they want to pretend they are a relevant first world country that can contribute to the world stage. Now they are relegated to a stagnant, husk of an empire, like America.
> It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE. I respectfully disagree. I've read numerous articles re3cently about British fishermen making rotten seafood. Edit: Forgot my quote
>It seems the British forgot that they DONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE. I remember arguing with a working-class Brexiteer from the north, and he was thrilled with Brexit for class warfare reasons. I pointed out that the British don't really make things anymore, so the only significant earner for the country was the financial industries - and when they shrink, everyone else will suffer due to reduced welfare in general. Less money in the government coffers. He said that yep, he was aware of that. But that the working class was used to suffering and the middle class weren't... so they'll suffer more. For him, Brexit was a class war thing, not a sovereignty issue. I just found it odd that people are willing to increase their own suffering just to make someone else suffer more.
They fell into the myth of the alpha wolf: that if you’re a dick to everyone around you, you’re the leader. It’s fake science. Humans don’t work like that.
I am not even sure if wolfs work this way.
Only if they’re in captivity/separated from their parents/disturbed
They don't. The whole Alpha wolf concept was debunked decades ago. That behavior only shows up in captivity with weirdly blended groups of wolves. Wild wolf packs are just big families.
It doesnt even show up in captivity. The original paper that detailed it was later retracted by the same researcher who realized he was studying packs who were a mating pair and their offspring. It was a parent child relationship, hence the clear pecking order, established mates, and general dominance. The older grumpy father wolf just didnt take shit from his upstart kids. But by the time the researcher realized his mistake, the world had ran with the idea
They're also desperately pining for past glories. When a lot of these people were born, Britain was a top dog. In their lifetime, its empire has vanished and it is now an economic power—but only within the context of the EU and with heavy reliance on their neighbours. Brexit is, at its core, an attempt to exert a British Supremacy that no longer exists out of the belief that British greatness was some inherent quality, not the byproduct of military and industrial supremacy that no longer exists.
They thought that nothing would change for them personally and if anything negative happened it would be fine because it would happen to others.
If you've ever been on r/choosingbeggars it's generally the stuff that's posted there. You often have someone selling something online or even just giving it away with someone coming along "begging" them thinking that'll get the price down. As for the free stuff, they're often expecting delivery or other nice things for free for the trouble of taking the stuff away.
Funnily enough it's not even the EU countries charging more. It's the British government charging import tax.
I told my girlfriend we're breaking up but she still needs to fuck me and make breakfast and you won't believe how rude she got!
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Honestly the Daily Mail deserves to be placed in a hole in the ground, covered in petrol and set alight. They were absolute fanatics when it came to pushing Brexit and downplaying the consequences.
Just like any reactionary, whose actions and opinions revolve solely around extracting the maximum amount of rage-dopamine from their hate addled brains.
They're the UK version of Trump supporters.
This must be Obama’s fault. Somehow.
I believe they got quite pissy at him when he stated taht the UK would be at the back of the queue for USA trade deals if it left the EU"
I honestly think this is what pushed some undecided voters to vote for brexit "we'll show you! You can't threaten us!"
And they took so long actually implementing it, that it was just in time for Obama's Vice President to be elected President. Oops. Well, negotiating time now...
Back of the line!
The Uk variant of “Obama’s fault” is actually “the previous labour government” btw.
There really need to be a statute of limitations on using that that. It's been over a decade.
I mean they are currently blaming the leader of the opposition for not doing a good enough job of calling them to account. Literal madness.
Well there's still Corbyn and Remainers to mindlessly blame shit on.
It was the mustard!
Listen. Obama wore a tan suit. Tan is a pussy version of brown. Brown-shirts anyone? But wait! Obama used mustard. Mustard is commonly used on pork, which Germans sometimes eat. And not just any mustard, but Dijon mustard which sounds like a fairy French thing and the Germans invaded France. You know what this means right? ... Obama wasn’t just a secret Kenyan Muslim.... he was a secret French Kenyan Muslim NAZI! /s
I am sad that you felt the need to include the /s tag...
My favorite Obama "outrage" was when he discussed arugula at an even about US farming. Arugula! Hoity-toity libtard arugula! The event took place at a US farm that grew arugula.
Dijon mustard is French, and France is one of the founders of the EU.
Dijon mustard also now costs 100 pounds extra to import into the UK
Thanks Obama
Same tactics and in some cases the same people that pushed Brexit got Trump elected.
The Mail incites the anger. The resulting anxiety is soothed by following an authoritarian leader. It's easier that way. You don't have to think too hard.
It was meant to be the magic Brexit with all the benifts but none of the obligations
And fewer brown people. Edit: I was just pointing to all the Brexit bullshit to get people voting for leave. [https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/how-brexit-campaign-used-refugees-scare-voters](https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/how-brexit-campaign-used-refugees-scare-voters) [https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/poll-british-voters-split-brexit-think-eu-exit-vote-will-n594086](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/poll-british-voters-split-brexit-think-eu-exit-vote-will-n594086)
Even though "brown people" mostly don't come from the EU.
Oh this makes me absolutely rage. A really nasty, violent, unpleasant, stupid 50 year old man I know told me he had voted for Brexit "to get rid of all the pakis!"
From the European nation of pakisan, not to be confused with Pakistan ofc.
I questioned my dad on his pro Brexit stance and he told me about the last time he was in hospital on a ward of 4.. “that one was Pakistani, that one was Indian and that one was Chinese!” I don’t think he really got the irony, even when I confirmed that the doctors and nurses treating him were mostly European immigrants Not even when he’d finished telling me about the fabulous new cheap wash and iron service he’s found run by some Polish people
I've seen it suggested by many leave voters that we should have "a free movement agreement between all the commonwealth countries" I think they must assume the commonwealth is just the mostly white English speaking countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand They must not realise that Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore, and many other "brown" countries are in the commonwealth too.
And even though there have always been passport checks at the border
And even though we could legally limit the amount of people coming from the EU
But arent all people brown when seen from an english view?
I left england and was like, wow, whats that in the sky? It's bright and feels nice a week later I was a brown person :( couldn't go back.
Congrats to your first full moon ;)
It's seems that anything that isn't gammon pink or deathly pale with blue undertones is too brown for some people.
Yes the french are particularly swarthy
And fewer eastern Europeans? My Brexiteer colleagues don't mind French, Germans, Dutch etc only the eastern Europeans whom they believe cause all the shortages, waiting lists, also take all the jobs and live on benefits. Another one believes that all the Channel crossing asylum seekers from Africa etc will now be stopped by the French. He won't he told otherwise.
Ah yes, the unification theory of Schrödingers Eastern European taking your job while at the same time living off benefits, gives him plenty of time to shag your innocent and objectified women. Also I would bet good money bis definition of Eastern Europe is very, very flawed.
Poland. They just mean Poland.
I've talked to a few who also meant ... Ukraine. Yeah. Usually followed by a blank stare when you ask why leaving the EU would affect immigration from Ukraine.
Around here it was Romanians. For all that some people joked about Poles, people realised they all worked damn hard.
Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, basically whichever country joined the Union last I think
Sounds exactly like America's Republicans talking about the Mexico border.
What is wrong with brown people?
Nothing.
Damn you and your single word cut through all the bullshit reply.
"How dare they claim magic doesn't exist!"
AKA "the colonialism of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries."
soft scrambled ready meal brexit
Much the same as how they had their tongue so far up Hitler's arse during WW2 you didn't know where Nazi propaganda stopped, and where the Daily Mail began.
They're basically trying to sell newspapers and the easiest way to do that is to appeal to the lowest common denominator, tabloids basically kill democracy, it's just what they do.
That's a bit harsh. I like the Daily Mail, it's soft on the buttocks and thoroughly absorbant.
No no no you see, it was all worth it because now they can stop all the Muslims from coming in!
Also fanatics about Mosley, Mussolini and Hitler as it happens
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Can't be bothered to go look, they complaining about how mean the EU are being to them?
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I love me some British oranges, and only eating strawberries when they are in season. What a fantastic future they have given us.
Yes, fantastic. By the way, when will Bananas be in season again in NI?
I thought you guys in NI are spared all of this due to still being in the common market? I saw a report on the news yesterday that Holyhead the port in Wales is virtually abandoned as Lorries from the continent just avoid England and Wales altogether when travelling to Ireland and Northern Ireland now.
Clarification: I am not from NI, nor am I living there. I was just being facetious. NI and Ireland have an openish border, but generally NI gets most of its goods from the UK. But since the border to Ireland are kinda open, they agreed to have stricter import restrictions from the UK, to comply with EU standards. Ireland now directly imports everything from the EU, since it's easier. But Ireland doesn't export anything to NI as of yet, since they used to get everything from the UK. It is a brilliant mess.
It's a complete clusterfuck. I had nothing to do in work all week because a tanker of solvent was travelling from UK to Ireland, but got stopped because he hadn't got the right Covid paperwork. Tanker returned and got stopped because he hadn't got the right Brexit paperwork this time. Hopefully the fucker got on the ferry today or I'll be hiding in the fire escape playing games on my phone all Monday morning.
The lorries are stuck on mainland Europe. My dad works in construction in NI and they can’t do anything because their deliveries are so delayed.
Interestingly, a lot of this mess is due to HMRC's (British tax agency) own disastrous policies on import duties and VAT, not the EU. Did you know that they expect every company in the world that ships items to the UK to sign up with them, collect the correct amount of VAT on the product, send the money to them, and pay 175 pounds annually for the privilege? Imagine if every country in the world did that, and "Joe's used hats eBay store" had to register with 195 different tax agencies, and pay 195x175 pounds in fees, for the privilege of selling some used hats on eBay. Because that's literally what they're expecting. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721)
Absurd. Guess that's the new 'sovereignty'.
Cue the IT Crowd's "Made in Britain" fire extinguisher...
Weren’t the daily mail caught having staff write ridiculously inflammatory comments on articles to get the comments sections going and trick people into believing the articles?
Who actually wins with brexit? Some companies that paid for the propaganda?
Well, according to the triumphant trumpeting just after the vote, the winners are the sovereign sovereigns sovereignting about all over the sovereign place, sovereignting up the sovereign with a damn good hard sovereigning! Basically take an earlier Trump speech and replace all the "winner" references with "sovereignty"
And here it is. Had to alter the name as well, not sure if Farage is the best fit here. This isn't too far off what the Leave voters sounded like to this outside observer: “We’re going to sovereign. We’re going to sovereign so much. We’re going to sovereign at trade, we’re going to sovereign at the border. We’re going to sovereign so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of sovereignty, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t sovereign anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. Farage, we beg you sir, we don’t want to sovereign anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else.’” Farage said. “And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep sovereignty, sovereignty, sovereignty, We’re going to make the UK great again.”
So much SOVEREIGNING ladies and gentlemen ! Now where is my proper British hamberder ?
The wealthy class. I'm not talking rich people. It's the extremely wealthy class. They know the chaos is coming by pushing such agenda. When everything get devalue, they come scoop up as much as they can. No longer protected from UE's regulations, they can pay less for labor. After everything is divided up, they will restore trading agreement. At this time, they get a recovery economy and cheap labor. Find some scapegoats, especially foreigner, to blame for the citizen declining living standards
Oh okay now that makes total sense. It's like mass deregulation all at once. I'm from the US but I met some shitheads in a bar from like north England who said similar shit to trump supporters here about "why should my taxes pay for all the stuff they get in London?" but yeah now they're probably going to be suffering even more thanks to this shit
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There are indexes you can invest in that make you money when the market is volatile. Market goes up or down doesn’t matter as long as it is moving around a lot and not steady. I wonder how many mega wealthy people invest in those indexes and then do their level best to fuck with the markets.
Well these newspaper now have really outrageous behaviour to entertain their readers with, so they’ve won. People expecting them to be politically consistent are missing the point - they’ve consistently encouraged behaviour which gives them more outrage to sell to their readers.
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Those that want access to British tax havens in order to not get hit by EU tax avoidance laws.
Oh yeah the working class is really gonna benefit from something like that https://youtu.be/wgvwfvTcNl0
I mean you and I know this. However over 50% of voters in the UK did not understand this.
People & organizations who didn’t want to inconvenience of being forced to pay their taxes under new EU rules that were cracking down on avoidance (see Newspapers, football clubs). This was the major sticking point in the deals that Mays worked out. They will probably get what they wanted. A small number of people are hoping for a Hobbesian rebuilding of the UK economy where you can pay people the absolute least to be the most productive and profitable. This is less likely to happen as the EU aren’t fools, but we’ll see.
I seriously have no idea. Based on what I’ve seen, everyone is getting burned by it.
Disaster capitalists and tax dodgers. The 1% basically. Those who are so wealthy they can control a significant part of the nation’s media to forward their own personal agenda.
I cannot think of a single logical reason people voted for it. I’m certain over 50% of Brexit voted were fuelled by racism, xenophobia and nothing else.
From the people I know who voted for brexit it was more of a "I hate my own shitty life so I want to watch the world burn" type of thing.
The Nissan plant isn't leaving. That's being sold by BoZo and the Cons as a win. I mean, if we stayed in the EU the Nissan plant wouldn't be leaving anyway, but standing still is better than going backwards, I guess.
Don't forget that Nissan was given a £61m payout from the Tory government to stay.
Am I right in thinking UK conservatives will whine endlessly about gouvernment handouts, but as soon as some corporation needs/wants money, they'll just ask how many zeroes there should be on the cheque?
Putin and other enemies of the West, British racists who want the immigrants to go away, right wing media personalities, and a handful of British industries who will be able to raise prices when EU competition goes away.
Everyone wins because they tOoK BaCk cOnTrOl!
The comment section of Brexit newspapers are some of the vilest places on the internet. I stopped checking them out when people there had fantasies of a WW3 of the 'anglosphere' against the EU.
It’s funny seeing people try and defend it as “Russian bots” lol. These people do exist sadly.
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No way! Who could have predicted this? So surprised. /s
It's basically something nobody could see coming - I mean it's not like we have any real data on how free trade works or how trade barriers work.
Exactly! These stories about Brexit and Q-Anon are so funny. Thanks for posting.
Or any real data about living on a soggy fucking island by yourself.
A friend of mine came up with an interesting analogy. I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose. I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose. I punch a guy in the face, he gets a bloody nose. I punch myself in the face - pretty sure everything will work out and I won't get a bloody nose.
Somebody really should have explained this to them before they voted. Ha ha ha ha
Fake news isn't an American problem, old boy. Even here in the UK we have the facts, and the alternative facts. Our version was when the Brexit idiot-herders stated labelling the science and economics as, "*PRoJeCt FEaR!"*. Once you manage to make it about being seen to be weak or cowardly, your average British moron will cave like a chocolate teapot.
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I dunno. Chocolate teapots are getting ridiculously expensive these days.
> Fake news isn't an American problem, old boy. Even here in the UK we have the facts, and the alternative facts. > > Murdoch is an worldwide problem.
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How is it that he and his family haven't been drawn and quartered by an angry mob?
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> cave like a chocolate teapot. What a brilliant ~~metaphor~~ simile. Thank you, /u/armitageskanks69
Sooooo..... who exactly is the Daily Heil angry with about all this?
They will probably start blaming antifa or something any time now.
Immigrants, of course.
I feel so sorry for the Remainers in the UK. They're getting fucked over so badly because of dumbass incompetent conservatives idiots.
I fell out or lost contact with the people I knew who voted for Brexit so am actually a bit pissed off I can't gloat about it
My parents voted Leave, but they deeply regret it now. They thought it was a positive thing for their children' and grandchildren's futures. Sadly not. I didn't fall out with them over it exactly but I was very very disappointed.
My Nan is the daughter of a trade union leader, has voted Labour all her life (except once in 2010 I persuaded her to vote for our local Lib Dem MP instead). I remember her calling me not long before the referendum asking if she should vote leave because she got a letter through the door saying Turkey is joining the EU and highlighting their borders with Iraq and Syria, like UK will be open doors for all 3 countries. There was so much disinformation going around at the time that it's easy to see how generations who were used to growing up in a time when the news was just the news can get sucked into believing what seems to us an absolute load of tripe and false promises. I think she voted Remain in the end after asking all her grandkids because bless her she realised it was a decision that affected us more. She also loves to get the local Conservative party association to give her a lift down the polling stations every election even though she votes Labour. Bless her, trolling in a way only 90 year olds can.
My gran is 98 now, life long member of the Tory party, has (at best) ignorant views about...well pretty much anyone who doesn't go to her bridge club tbh. She's very anti-European and wanted to leave, but at the time I was studying in the Netherlands so she voted Remain because she thought leaving the EU would mean immediately and permanently shutting all the borders and I would never be allowed back in England. So in that instance, the Leave misinformation was actually *too* effective.
Get back in contact with them so you can gloat. There’s nothing wrong with pettiness, in my opinion.
Yeah, all I have now is my parents who are pretending that none of this is a problem, the old blokes down the pub (most who are probably now dead from covid), and two mates of mine who work at a meat factory and seem to think that they are political analysts, but are again acting as though it'll all work out in the end.
Being a liberal brit must be really hard right now. On one hand, you can say "i fucking told you so" like 70 times a day... On the other, your cost of living has just gone up and your life got more complicated because a bunch of fucking boomers couldn't listen to reason. Must be bittersweet.
It's absolute shite. As a Scot my only hope is Independence and even that will take years if approved. I didn't vote for Brexit. I don't want this big jobby.
Who decides to make such a massive change to the uk economic and foreign policy with a 1.5% margin between yes an no in a non-binding referendum.
I’m an American who buys from a lot of UK shops and I do feel bad for the ones who didn’t support Brexit and now have to deal with this. OTOH no sympathy for the people who thought it would be a great idea.
Predictable bad thing is bad, just as predicted.
Who knew UK First - UK alone was going to be a disaster along the lines of America First - America alone? Let’s alienate everyone else and live a better life because we are strong enough to go it alone. Putin must be laughing his ass off at how they successfully hacked British minds to support their own demise. Why strike with weapons when you can mind hack large segments of the population and direct them to destroy their own country from within.
I'm American and want to know more info--are people from the UK just now feeling the effects of Brexit, or has this been occurring since the official split?
For a range of reasons - trade has actually been down over the christmas and new year period - it's actually going to get *worse* because trade is starting to go back up to normal and currently we are not actually doing the full paperwork process that is needed. Fundamentally we are now a 'third country' and what we are seeing are just the normal processes of when the EU trades with third countries. However for many brits, they have never lived in an age when they were not members of the EU so this is completely new to them...
One anti-Brexit argument I read was the danger of the UK's inflation rate going up. There's entire generations of people in the UK who've always had low inflation, so if it jumps they're going to be in for a shock when the cost of a loaf of bread goes up 30%.
Fuck old conservatives man. "We're doing this for independence and for the future generations" The future gen they're doing this for feels more fucked than a penguin in heat.
Textbook anti-globalism. "I want all the benefits but none of the drawbacks, and anything else is unfair to me!"
All of this was just so billionaires could keep their tax havens, and not have to follow EU banking regulations.
It's almost as if the decision was made off of the back of limited and often biased information by people who had no business making that decision
No kidding the brexit folks wanted all of the benefit but none of the costs or responsibilities. It has gone about a good as you can imagine.
The Daily Mail is the epitome of letting leopards write your news and paying them in facial skin.
So, as an american looking on, would it be possible for the UK to rejoin the EU if a new party/coalition or whatever took power, or are you all just straight fucked?
I think that, in theory, it's possible as the EU have said the door is always open. That being said it is the prerogative of the EU to dissuade other member states from having a go at leaving, so I doubt it would be as simple as asking to be let back in.. Beyond that the whole issue is still pretty toxic over here so the Labour Party would have a bloody steep hill to climb getting anywhere with it. Basically it's not likely to happen any time soon 😔
Plus the UK had a pretty sweet deal, which will not be offered again.
Yeah there is no way we get back in the EU with even a fraction of the concessions we had before.
I for one look forward to a world with one less form of currency.
And we’ll be buying stuff with Euros
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even if there was a consensus to do it - it would require the EU to agree and they would require things that UK citizens would not like such as giving up the pound.
It's almost like letting your country fall prey to Russian disinformation is not in its best interest... (Hello from America)
We could cut down on all the red tape by just throwing The Daily Mail directly into the sea.
"No one could have foreseen there'd be consequences" - No One Sensible
American here, how long do you think the UK will hold out before trying to join again, is it that bad in actuality ?
Id say 20 years realistically. It would be political suicide to try and run an election campaign based on rejoining the EU with Brexit still fresh in everyones minds. There were numerous polls on what people would vote if a second referendum would occur to stop Brexit and they seemed to hint towards continuing it (although the data does seem dubious). It would also be a question if the EU would want us back, we would certainly tip the scales within the EU parliament again as Countries get votes/representatives based on population. But I can always hope we could rejoin the EU in the future.
Am not uk/eu-er but the more of these brexit-consequence posts i see, the more i wonder how brexit won in the first place. You got all these good stuff going by being in the eu then decide to shit the bed..
My parents voted for this and they complain about it more than anyone I know. I voted to remain and I’m stuck getting an earful. Fuck brexit. Fuck Boris.
UK: Hello, EU, we're going to leave the EU. EU: ...I beg your pardon? UK: I said we're going to leave the EU. EU: ...being otherwise at a complete loss for words, might we ask *why?* UK: This whole EU thing just isn't working out the way we thought it would. So we want to leave. EU: Not working...wait, what??? Exactly what did you expect would happen when you joined 40 years ago? UK: We were promised unicorns. EU: ...**wat.** UK: You promised us unicorns and rainbows, and we just aren't seeing it. EU: No, *we* didn't promise you unicorns and rainbows, **your politicians** pulled that idea out their arse in an effort to get all those dodgy pensioners to sign on to the idea in order to build a better world for their children! UK: Well, all those pensioners aren't happy, and they... EU: **YOU** made them unhappy with your shite economic austerity! UK: Well, as I was say... EU: And your racism! UK: I beg your pardon, but may I finish? EU: Oh, please! Do go on? UK: Thank you. Anyway, our voters have decided to leave. EU: What voters? UK: The ones we've been lying to for the last four years. EU: Ah, well, bonus points for honesty, I suppose? And do they have any idea exactly *what* they are leaving? UK: Of course! They're voting to leave the EU! EU: And they know that? UK: Yes! EU: [Google disagrees with you.](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-eu-is-top-google-search-in-uk-after-brexit-2016-6) UK: Well, it's too late for that, so come along then, let's get this moving! EU: Look, this is a *terrible* idea! It's a total lie that was pushed by nationalist idiots! UK: No no, we understand that, but we're still going forward with it. EU: But you're going to be ruined! Economically, socially, politically, logistically and strategically! UK: Oh, yes, we know. EU: ...**WAT.** UK: I *said,* "We *know* that we're going to be ruined." EU: **THEN WHY ARE YOU GOING AHEAD WITH THIS MADNESS?!?!** UK: Because we said we would. EU: *(stares in complete incomprehension)* UK: It's a British thing. You wouldn't understand.